BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:21 AM

"Keith also maintains that no-one ever calls for Loyalist violence to stop...."

What do you mean?
Surely most people call for it all to stop.
DTG and I both supported the Anti Loyalist Weapons thread and wrote to our MPs


So if Sweeney starts posting about late 20th Cent events it's OK, but no one is allowed to challenge him because that is thread creep?!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:37 AM

I am fine, Tir Chonaill, not overworked at all. In fact I am very happy. The sun is shining. I took a drive through Derbyshire yesterday. Going through Yorkshire later. I enjoy what I do. Don't have to put in an appearance that often. Get paid loads of money. You?

I realy must be a thick nome. I cannot follow your line of cut and pastes to me at all. Care to explain? In case I did not make myself clear I will repeat and give the actual text I was refering to. These three posts were right next to each other.

(snip)
Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM

Keith try this site,http://cryptome.org/john-dignam.zip

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 10:09 AM

guest, that is a file not a site.
I prefer not to open it, not knowing anything about you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,T�r Chonaill - PM
Date: 24 Jul 06 - 03:40 PM

Copy & Paste the link, Keith.

Spoonfed, that's what you need to be.

Once you exhibit a bit of intelligence, I'll start to take you a bit more seriously.

You only think you are being clever, Keith.

When in fact you're being incredibly tedious.

(snip)

Those three post were ONE AFTER THE OTHER. Don't believe me? Go and look. Now, how does that make the last post of the three, made by yourself, look?

As to the petition by Tiocfaidh -

BS: Loyalists' Weapons - Off The Streets NOW

You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that Keith and I were amongst the first to comment and send letters to our MPs. I find that you are often the first to complain about selective memory and careful selection of the right 'facts'. I know you have some sort of ongoing argument with Keith but please give credit where it is due and stop using the same methods you accuse others of employing.

Now can we get back to the film?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:53 AM

Tir, a pattern is emerging here.
You are not being understood.
Slow down a bit.
Proof read before posting, and after posting look to see if someone else has slipped in a post that effects yours.
And avoid name calling. Calling someone else an eejit in a confusing post rebounds on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:04 AM

The film has had a great response in Ireland. I was so glad when a nephew of mine came to me last week. He said after he went to see it he spent so much time the next day thinking about it. Now this guy to me was a lost cause, had no interest in Irish history or politics. Now I am glad to say he has seen the light !

I have never been so busy doing talks to local groups and vistors to the my area. The film seems to have sparked off an understanding why the IRA existed. The Irish nation never asked for a fight, the fight came to them. Our country was raped and thankfully our brave men stood up and were counted.

This film more than any other about Ireland in recent times has provoked peoples understanding. Most people could relate to someone in the film. I can understand why it gets up some peoples noses, to many the truth should be hidden, not anymore.

I look forward in years to come to the films that will be made about the war here in recent times. In the mean time I will continue to spread the word about what many like my self lived through.

Film rating 10/10.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:22 AM

WooHoo - It's on at Cineworld in Didsbury. Can't do this weekend but I am hopeful for next. Wonder if I can convince the family to see it instead of Superman and Pirates of the Carribean? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Fiolar
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:46 AM

Cornish: So your grandparents lived in Cork. I have no wish to be critical of your grandmother or her family for wishing what they did. That was their business, but I would be interested to know what they thought when the tans burned the centre of the city in December 1920. The estimated destruction was in the region of some 3 million pounds. That in today's figures is probably in the region of 60 to 80 million.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:20 AM

Fiolar,
You find Cornish plausible?
Would you like to buy Tower Bridge?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 10:48 AM

Fiolar, That Cornish paste is a wind up, ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,Tír Chonaill
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 01:32 PM

You sharpen up Keith.
There are no prizes on this forum for being a short plank.... especially when you keep changing the subject all the time.

Go see the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:31 PM

Oh well to get back to the original question...

I spoke to a friend who watched it tonight in Norwich (as given in my link to Fiolar).

He described it as a "powerful film" and indicated it was well produced, the acting was great and the film was well worth watching.

I'm not interested enough (I'm not a cinema goer - last one I remember was Dumbo 1980ish when I was late teens/20 and a gang of us were bored..) to go to watch it that way but do look forward to seeing it on tv one day.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 04:12 AM

Now that Film4 is on freeview it may be sooner rather than later as well - All being well.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:27 PM

Are we to believe that the movie "The wind that shakes the barley" , having been seen by those who have a say in the release of such entertainment, has been deemed a) to be politically inadvisable, b) not likely to generate much revenue, or, c) likely to arouse further rebelliousness in Britain (perhaps among the Scots, or Welsh, Tynesiders or, ...Cornish even) ????

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:53 PM

..or RUTLAND, for that matter, to allude to another recent BS thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:05 PM

I have not seen the film yet as it was not showing in the local cinema in my town, so I am not going to comment on it except to say if it is based on a true story about what happened in Ireland then it will be a good film. It does not matter what side of the fence you are on, what matters is whether it is a true story of Ireland back then.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:13 PM

Welcome to mudcat Alison. Heard It's a great film. Xtravision will be the first to be getting it out on DVD. If your interested in Irish topics go to the home page here and you will see "filter" type in Irish or Ireland and in the other box it will say 1 Day type in 365 and you will see a lot of Irish subjects.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:04 AM

Hi Alison.
It is said to be an excellent film.
Ken Loach is an outstanding director.
I agree with your reservation about its truthfulness.
Not that what it portrays is not true, just that it is selective in what it shows and therefor unbalanced and biased.
But films are not history texts.
People should not go to the cinema to be educated, only entertained.
Enjoy the film,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM

Excellent film that tells it as it was - as did Loach's other film on Ireland, Hidden Agenda.
It's about time we Brits took a closer look at what was carried out in our name (paid for by our taxes).
I understand a lot of people didn't like the Amritsar massacre being shown in Ghandi - tough!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

and nobody's ever asked Hull Kingston Rovers about how they feel about their matches being televised.....

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:13 AM

*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:32 AM

True Facts.
Members of the Black and tans gained a reputation for brutality and were not subject to discipline in their time in Ireland. This resulted in many murders of the civilian population. The Black and Tans burned and sacked many small towns and villages in Ireland, beginning with Tuam in county Galway in July 1920 and also including Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles and Templemore amongst many others. In November 1920, the Tans "besieged" Tralee. They closed all the businesses in the town and did not let any food in for a week. In addition they shot dead three local people. On the 14th of November, the Tans abducted and murdered a Catholic priest, Fr. Michael Griffin, in Galway. His body was found in a bog in Barna a week later. Most spectacularly of all, the Black and Tans sacked Cork city, on the night 11th of December 1920, the centre of which was burned out - destroying over 300 buildings. They also shot dead nine civilians in the city that night.These are the true facts.

Keiths Facts.
Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'

From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:04 AM

it is selective in what it shows and therefor unbalanced and biased.
But films are not history texts.
People should not go to the cinema to be educated, only entertained.
Enjoy the film,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:17 AM

Guest 4.32
like Loach, you were selective in what you chose to show.
The COMPLETE first sentence of your quote from my post is

"Not that what it portrays is not true, just that it is selective in what it shows and therefor unbalanced and biased."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:41 AM

I'm not ure what youre trying to say here Guest (though thats hardly uncommon with many posts with 'Guest' beside them is it....)

Are you saying that to you, Keith is suggesting that people should be ENTERTAINED by a film set n Ireland, in the era in which the Tans are doing those things? In effect that you think Keith is suggesting that some people would/should be entertained by a film portrayal of some of the things the Tans did (whether the things you have listed above appear in it or not, I dont now).

Maybe you are accusing the film of bias (of the opposite slant to Keith of course) in that it doesnt show those things you have listed above?

Are you claiming that only those facts you have listed are true about the Tans, & no others (no other facts, I mean) & that your list is completely exhaustive?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM

Hi folks just back. Have I missed anything ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM

Not to worry if you have...I'm sure you can fashion your own events in your mind to support your beliefs, even if they didnt actually happen, during your absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:41 PM

Now isn't that a big mouthful !

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

Dunno really..depends how big one's mouth is...*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:51 PM

Good point Paul, mine is very big! Never been to Hull, funny how I get this stereotype image of John Prescott when I think of Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:56 PM

Bah...it will be hundreds of years before we live that down...

...& ok, chips do seem very popular, but there have been no fish here since...ooooh...1974 I think..

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:01 PM

Do like my seafood Paul. Was over on West coast of Ireland recently and the seafood was heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:04 PM

I bet...envy you that. Been saying for a long while that I WILL get to see Ireland one day.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:09 PM

Paul if you do, head to the West coast it's beautiful. I covered every county on my 1500 Goldwing, many great memories, but the West Coast from Achill Island, Westport down to Cliffton really does it for me. Arklow and Wicklow also great. Getting a bit pricey I found.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:15 PM

Well, WHEN I get there, not IF, it'll likely be to wherever friends are going, as I know a few people who, assuming they still do regularly go, tend to stay somewhere, & soak up the crack, rather than travelling & seeing scenery per se.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:09 PM

Well that's the spot for you, Music, pubs and craic great in Galway

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:14 PM

*nods* So I hear, I used to have a mate who was from Galway.... cant recall exactly where though.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:12 AM

There can be no comparison between the behaviour of the Black and Tans and that of the rebels during the Irish War For Independence (that's what it was folks!). On the one hand you had a badly armed, poorly trained group of fighters carrying out a guerrilla campaign in order, as they saw it, to free their country; on the other there were the armed representatives of the most powerful nation on earth acting under the orders of their government to subdue the Irish people by whatever means necessary. One of the British military leaders at the time, later to become Montgomery of Alamein, complained that the troops were not "pursuing their orders with enough enthusiasm".
In such circumstances it would be more than a little naïve to expect the opposing sides to shake hands after a hard days fighting and say, "Good, clean fight chaps, same time tomorrow".
Any judgment of the war must be based on whether you believe the Irish were entitled to fight for their independence, nothing more or less.
If there was anything missing from Loach's film, it was the fact that the brutality depicted was taking place all over Ireland and it was officially sanctioned and not just the work of a handful of British thugs.
About ten years ago the BBC put on a play called 'All Around The Empire Room' which was a fictionalised account of a series of meetings between Lloyd George and Michael Collins in order to agree the terms of the treaty. It opened with the narrator saying something like, "In 1922 a treaty for the independence of Ireland was signed. Between that time and this, every bomb exploded, every bullet fired, every man woman and child killed or maimed in the name of Irish freedom, can be traced directly back to a series of meetings that took place at number ten Downing Street at that time".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:55 AM

Very good post, Jim. I must say I had half an idea that was the truth but I had never realy formulated the thought properly. Thanks for doing it for me:-)

Didn't know you were a biker, Divis! Makes me want to get the old CX500 going again - Should only need HT leads and Oil but it has been stood there for 2 years:-( It is the custom model but the same engine and running gear that was the Silver Wing. Love to get it over to Ireland but I may wait till I win the lottery and can buy that Harley V-Rod VRSE :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:58 AM

I think Montgomery complained that the troops were not "pursuing him with enough enthusiasm".

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:45 AM

Dave, had a Silverwing GL500 early 1980's. Then went to BMW R80RT then Honda ST1100 Pan European, then GL1500 Goldwing now onto BMW again. The CX 500 was a great bike once you got the tappets set ! Cam chain is a big problem with them, should change it as when it goes so does your engine. Get her on the road and will meet you at the docks !

Excellent post Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:01 AM

This piece gives this review from The Irish Times.
* IRISH TIMES

Thoughtful, powerful and moving Irish political drama, it is,
unsurprisingly, politically loaded. The Black and Tans are depicted as callous, belligerent oppressors, and there is, perhaps, one scene too many to emphasise their sadism.

The piece also has some fascinting memories from a Mr. Keating who fought against the Tans and in the Civil War. He says that his opponents in the Civil War were much worse than the Tans.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:06 AM

Sorry, here is the link to that piece.
Yes I have quoted selectively.
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/784

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:27 AM

Those who fought in the Civil War had much more information on those who they were fighting. Arms dumps were uncovered daily because a few years earlier the same ones who found them had filled them.

My grandfather fought the Tans and was a republican in the Civil war and served a jail sentence. He said the Civil War was brutal because the enemy were so well informed and knew everyone. The Tans didn't and tried to hammer information out of people who knew nothing.

I found in my reading of the accounts of both, the period the Tans were here was a lot worse for the innocent civilian population. The IRA never shot Priests either.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:45 AM

Mr Keating does not say that his Civil War opponents were worse because they had more information.
He says that they committed more atrocities then the Tans did.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:19 AM

A couple of points for clarification.

Dave the Gnome believes Scotch is "whiskey": it isn't, it's whisky.

Guest, Kenny reckons all Irish men hate the "Scotch". I have spent many holidays on the west coast of Ireland and have been made to feel very welcome everywhere, albeit with a guitar under my arm rather than a firearm. I happen to be a Scot with an accent which clearly identifies me as such.

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:22 AM

That last post was mine, don't know why I've lost my tag.

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM

You are indeed quite right weerover - I didn't believe it though. Just miss-spelled it. Probably after taking some..;-)

Incidentaly did you know that the original uisge beatha is phoneticaly very similar to eau de vie? French for water of life or, you've guessed it, Brandy! (Or is it Brandey?)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:54 AM

It's your round Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:12 AM

You're not so slim yourself:-D

Eeeeh. The old ones are the old ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:21 PM

Yes Dave, also akvavit (Swedish, not sure of spelling)

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

Like that one Dave, never heard it before.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM

300!
where were you all?