Folkies supporting IRA

Subject: Folkies supporting IRA
From: mindblaster
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:49 AM

Why is it assumed that because an event is "folk" we must put up with evil minded hypocritical IRA suppoters singing crap IRA ballads with fake tears in their murderous eyes.

I'm sick of the "Sing Kevin Barry, or you're not a true Irishman" attitude.
Why should I show any respect to people who worship the bastards that pulled a mother of 10 from her home then tortured and murdered her?

All I want to do is play my guitar and drink beer and enjoy good company.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 08:56 AM

Does this still happen? I must admit I haven't come across this for a long time.

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:03 AM

Mmmm good job that we American and Brit troops dont do that sort of thing aint it?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:07 AM

When exactly did Kevin Barry murder a mother of 10?

I don't have any respect for the British Army scum currently murdering their way through Iraq but that doesn't stop me playing pipe tunes from WW1 and WW2. (Or "Support Company 1st Battalion Scots Guards Farewell to Divis Flats", for that matter).

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: mindblaster
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 09:19 AM

You thicko CAMPIN I did not say Kevin Barry Murdered anyone - I am talking about the IRA supporters. Kevin Barry just happens to be one of the crap "tear" jerking songs that they sing.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 10:12 AM

Before the IRA Hi Jacked the Civil Rights movement and re vitalised The Troubles in 1969 , there were a lot of Cracking Good Pro -Republican Chorus songs on the UK Folk Scene - NO percentage in doing
them after '69 , when a lot of your audience could have family and friends with the services in NI ,
   I work in a couple of 'Irish' bands have have never had any demands
from republican sympathisers to sing Rebel songs , and wouldnt sing them if they WERE requested .






Especially Kevin Barry , IMHO not even a good song !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Brían
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 11:05 AM

I would hate to think that the only reason I play music is to get drunk and have a good time. I play music because it makes my life richer and hopefully enrichens others lives. If I was spending my free time hanging aroung a group of angry hypocrites with murder in their eyes, I would probably find another place to play. I don't think KEVIN BARRY is a particularlly bad song. The melody is a good one and the story is quite accurate. Kevin Barry certainly didn't start the atrocities and his death, if anything only exacerbated them.   It does matter who the singer is and the audience. I have a friend who sings a very nice version of it that sounds powerful in a quiet moment with a proper listening audience at the end of a party.

Brían

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:04 PM

Wanton violence, state sanctioned or not, is reprehensible, there is no honour in murder whosever perportrates it. The IRA were no better than the Crown forces, the true division should have been across socio economic lines, vis-vis The working class catholics had more in common with the working class protestants so the IRA and the Crown needed their conflict to disenfranchise the working classes and subjugate them. The conflict was always about which set of elites would run the country not to change the status quo and improve the lot of ALL working classes. Neat trick to use culture to inspire, like music, don't buy any of the shit. Killing is wrong full stop.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:22 PM

I note with interest the increased number of these types of comments from folks that hope that they can now white wash the actions of the RUC and the involvement of British forces in actions against the Irish people of the North of Ireland. The reason the Republicans still hold onto these songs is that they enunciate the injustice against them. Kevin Barry was KILLED for not giving up his friends. Had he been British being held by Germans in WWII, you would be singing his song.

Instead of railing on about this stuff, how about you rail on against the Paisleyites and their intransigence against establishing a working government. That would tell me you care about the kids of the North of Ireland. Your post tells me something quite different.

Mick

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,bob af
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:32 PM

Are some UK folk musicians actually still defenders of Brit imperialist rule in the north of Ireland and still opposed to Irish cultural resistance to the continued partition of Ireland by the UK imperialist state?

One reason the Clancy Brothers became very popular, historically, in the USA, however, is that most people in the United States have long been opposed to the continued violation of Irish national self-determination rights by British imperialism; and many U.S. folk musicians and U.S. folk music fans are very fond of Irish rebel folk music. Many folk music fans in the U.S. still like to hear songs that recall Irish freedom fighter resistance to British state terrorism in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 02:43 PM

Mick,
The British don't really sing songs about heroes.
There are a few 19th Century ones about the likes of Wolfe, and Nelson, but very few and rarely heard.
I can think of none about 20th Century heroes.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:05 PM

Oh, I dunno, Keith. We have heard loads of the last couple of weeks.

Roooooo-neeeey, Roooooo-neeeey

and

Beeeeeckhaaaaam, Beeeeeckhaaaaam

being just 2 I can think of!

Back on the thread. What does it matter now if anyone supports the IRA? They are no longer a fighting force. They do not blow people up. The do not shoot people. They USED to. That was in the past. Everyone will, eventualy, get over it.

Would you have all songs involving people that have been at war with England banned? No German music? No Scottish? No American? Why pick on the Irish? Unless it is just to wind people up of course? Heaven forbid!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:07 PM

The John Maclean March is a song about a hero, isn't it?

BTW, the last time I heard anyone sing an unequivocally pro-IRA song it was "The Men Behind the Wire". And the singer was an off-duty Britsih policeman.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:23 PM

Jack Campin, are you a member trolling, or are you just another regular troll?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:33 PM

The last time I heard pro-IRA songs was a couple of years ago on the last train from Glasgow, from a mob of drunken, and not so drunken, Celtic "fans". A frightening end to a day out for all the other passengers. Abandoned by any train staff, three carridges of passengers crushed themselves into two carridges, virtualy baricading themselves from the dozen fowlmouthed yobs. Hatred and incitement, is the only possible reason for the majority of these poorly written and researched, propaganda loaded songs being performed. Not my idea of fun and not what I have tried to further in Folk and Traditional music.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 03:53 PM

John Maclean is not the kind of hero being discussed though is he.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:10 PM

mindblaster , perhaps it would be better if you said straight out. who or what has offended you and where.....

most folksingers sing the rebel ballads, or know them. they are good songs.

I don't like Kevin Barry as it offends his family. And the people who knew kevin Barry regarded the song as a terrible travesty and an a painful reminder of a terrible family tragedy. I call that no sort of tribute.

there is probably a time and place not to sing some rebel ballads, but they are a wonderful facet of Irish culture, and they are our neighbours - unless you are going to come out with name and packdrill, about who has offended you - I think you should behave yourself and stop stirring the shit. theres already too many doing that about English/Irish relations on mudcat.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 05:34 PM

If you only sing songs that don't offend anyone, and that you agree with, you're not going to have much to sing about.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: paddymac
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:18 PM

Ho Hum. I wonder - Is Mindblaster really a pseudonymn for Conrad B.? Go soak your head in a bucket of orange juice. You have my permission to leave it there.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,sorfingers
Date: 09 Jul 06 - 07:25 PM

Dick, you have it. It's not about offending people, it's about throwing things at them as you offend them.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:32 AM

Most of us change old usages in songs that are offensive to people of African ethnic origin.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:43 PM

Bloody mudcat anti-irish squad out again!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:14 PM

Oh, I didn't think my comments were anti Irish, I said all killing and violence was wrong who ever does it. As on some other thread that I have mentioned my back ground, and indeed I have close familial links with Ireland. I do have issues with people that Torture and blow people up, innocent people, I just don't see a difference between the RUC, Army and the IRA, they all piss in the same pot.
As to the music, as a small child the first "folk" music I heard was TM & C. brothers "Live at Carnegie Hall", I think we had three albums in all. As I recall no one had issues with the music then, wounds, perhaps, had healed. I can understand that a generation growing up under the threat of being blown to kingdom come might be traumatised, I know how the A-bomb affected me and in a way my whole life since. Well I wasn't blown up, though I did lose a friend in Ireland to a bomb, the friendliest drunk and a-political man one could meet (some time deserter from the Irish Navy) And I wasn't interogated although I have been arrested for something I didn't do, fly posting, and demonstrating. So what is it all about, maybe it is about of sense of belonging, nailing your colours to the mast, being a patriot is belonging, "my country right or wrong". Well, buy into that if you like, I don't. Patriotism is an excuse for people (Oh and yes there are English, scottish, welsh, US as well as Irish patriots)do what they like to further someone else's ends, tragedy is that they are so full of hate they don't see it. Take IRAQ and Afghanistan, what the hell are our soldiers doing there? Why do we ( oh yes I didn't vote for them but as a democracy they are doing it in my name) vote for people like that. Beyond me

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:18 PM

True, Guest. I think is about time you packed it in. You are obviously not welcome here. Don't know how, or why, you have put up with it all these years.

Close the door on the way out please.

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

Well put Stallion.
G

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 01:46 PM

Ballad of John Axon.

But I'd agree that songs about individual heroes are unusual in the modern English tradition, compared to the Irish. The same goes for songs about individual town and villages. Traditions vary. Different strokes for different folks.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 05:49 PM

No Guest, just Keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Norwood
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 06:34 PM

Remember an old L.P. we had at home called "Irish Ballads by Conrad Veidt" think he was Austrian ! My grandfather brought over from Ireland. Hard to listen to then, would love to hear it again for old times sake.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Charmain
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 06:53 PM

OK "mindblaster" songs are songs, they tell a story - whether its right or wrong whether you believe in it or not - there are whaling songs which bring a lump to my throat and a tear to my eye but I would as soon as support whaling as I would stick pins in my eyeballs never mind actually go on a whaling trip - one of my all time favourite Dubliners tracks is their live version of the Auld Orange Flute and I don't think anyone could call them Loyalists do you? Of course they did a mighty Salonika too - and yes it is wrong to glorify the deeds of muderers but surely it is right to tell the story of our collective past rather than limiting us only to the stories of those who did the "right" thing or were on the winning side or the acceptable side - and who were those people by the way? Don't just stop with attacking the folkies are you going to tell Bono to stop singing Sunday Bloody Sunday?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 08:15 PM

Conrad Veidt, he was a film star, wasn't he?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:02 PM

'Tis the season already? Time flies. It seems like just last week...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 12:16 AM

We turned over our weapons

We agree to peace

An you bloody march, bomb, rape for Ornage Day!!!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 03:05 AM

mmmmmmmm a little less anger, sectarianism is orrid, I have been on the wrong end of an orangeman's boot and couldn't understand it. I don't do this tribal nonsense, if it wasn't green and orange, celtic rangers, everton liverpool, mods and rockers, punks v the rest then all that angry energy could be channelled into doing something useful for mankind , it's an easy cop out, doing something positive is much harder to do. So, all those harbouring festering grudges, put them in a box and move forward, lead by example and others will follow.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: JamesHenry
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:26 AM

Guest 12:16

Is this the genuine GUEST or the dyslexic, tourette afflicted moron who has hi-jacked his identity??

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 08:26 PM

the wrong end of an orangeman's boot Surely that'd be the end with the foot in it...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 01:44 AM

...Why should I show any respect to people who worship the bastards that pulled a mother of 10 from her home then tortured and murdered her?...

Learn your history mindballster, you silly bugger, and come back and tell us what a good guy Cromwell was.

I sing Irish rebel songs because my Grandmother sang them to my Father (Long before the IRA were formed I believe, Mick may be able to verify this or correct me)and he sang them to me.

I also sing them because I believe that any country has the right to self rule, a few people here in the USA agree with that too.

Not many of us agree with terrorism, but you really have to look at the way that Catholics were treated in Northern Ireland, over the last 80 years or more, to see what YOU would have done had you been placed in that situation.

Sing a few rebel songs yourself and maybe people will eventually   treat each other with love and respect when they learn how badly people have treated each other in the past.

It wasn't you, it wasn't me and it wasn't Mick, but we should all try to learn from the past in order to make sure such atrocities remain in the past where they belong.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 02:19 AM

Oh dear Bert, I think you are so ill informed. Putting out propaganda is one thing believing it is another. In the first instant, the bid for Irish independance was not a Catholic Protestant thing, does United Irishmen ring a bell? The whole thing seems to have been hijacked. British Parliament required one to swear an oath, catholics couldn't do this and were excluded however niether could athiest and they were excluded (Bradlaugh) The "Partition" probably saved Ireland from a more savage civil war than it had, one can never know that So it is only speculation. Oh yes Cromwell, a foriegner massacreing the local population, at least the Irish don't live on reservations and are allowed to vote. Where do you draw the line between freedom fighter and terrorist, were native North Americans terrorists or freedom fighters? Like the slave trade, the occupation of ireland, the theft of native american lands, however unpallatable it was, it wasn't you or I that were responsible. However, we are responsible for our own actions and we can all make a difference by moving forward and looking to the future and not looking back, it's hard I know but if it doesn't happen then we are going to hand hatred on to the future generations, lets hand on the music of a bygone age but not the hate. My uncle Jack was a Japanese POW, he was on board the Lisbon Matru (POW ship)when it was torpedoed by a US submarine, he escaped into captivity and endured some appalling experiences, a couple of years ago he went back to Japan and publicly and truly forgave his captors, he said that a majority of the nightmares ended with that forgiveness.
Passion, hate and jealousy are bedfellows, I don't think anyone has one without the others, but, try to be objective. This is so sad that people still think this way.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Terry K
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 03:54 AM

"A plebiscite within Northern Ireland on whether it should remain in the United Kingdom, or join the Republic, was held in 1973. The vote went heavily in favour (98.9%) of maintaining the status quo with approximately 57.5% of the total electorate voting in support, but most nationalists boycotted the poll ...." - from memory I think this Wiki entry is fairly accurate.

Despite the boycott, this still means that 56.87% of the population voted to stay within the UK. That would seem to be a majority. Bearing in mind that over 40% of the country is Catholic, it also says that unless the Protestant-and-others turnout was nigh on 100% (highly unlikely) a certain amount of the Catholic community DID vote, and voted in support.

But I tend to agree that the real crime is that the songs are mainly crap - if ever I am subjected to the Foggy bleedin' Dew again .....

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 04:20 AM

It is a different story when the blood bones, and bits of body are on the streets of your own cities and towns.
It is difficult therefore to compare living the experience, with living the dream.
I often think that a lot of patriotism is long distance, folk memory romanticism. Many English people don't care about anything but themselves when at home, but turn fiercely patriotic and belligerent when abroad.
What I do wonder is where many Americans get their news and/or facts about current happenings in Ireland, as I have struggled to find any foreign news in most US newspapers. If as I suspect they get them from news sheets put out by Irish Associations and clubs, or from the like of An Poblacht sent over from Ireland,then surely it is unlikely to be neutral?
I would agree though that it's difficult when someone sings a song AT you, rather than TO you, persuasion has always been better than indoctrination.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 12:14 PM

I think this thread needs to be killed, time to move on

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: ard mhacha
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 12:35 PM

Just before this Thread dies the death, all of the recent polls in the Irish press have come out in favour of a united Ireland, that poll Terry K refers to in 1973, resulted in a boycott by the nationalists, the figures were a complete farce.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 03:52 PM

My mother was a cousin of Kevin Barry but I haven't sang the song for several years, not because I disapproved of him but because his name, like so many others, was hijacked by people who had no mandate to carry on their "war". I don't want to go into another tit for tat atrocity rant but I hope that when Mr. Paisley passes on there will be some more moderate unionist leader who will face today's realitites and leave the past in the past.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 05:31 PM

here here

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Jul 06 - 07:39 PM

Giok -- you are correct in saying that the mainstream media here in the US don't often cover Irish affairs, but there are a few monthlies (IAN out of Chicago, there's one in San Francisco) that do. There is also "Out of Ireland" on PBS, which has 15 minutes of RTE news a week. I pay attention to both.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Terry K
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 02:50 AM

ard mhacha - you say the 1973 plebiscite was a complete farce, but look carefully at the figures - despite the boycott by whomsoever, there was still a majority of the POPULATION (not just a majority of the voters) in favour of the status quo. In a democracy, that's all a government has to go on, so even if the event had not been "boycotted", the result would still have been the same. (And of course you wouldn't be the first to claim that a vote which went against you was "a complete farce").

What would then have happened if the government had decided to ignore the results and start to support unification against the declared wishes of the majority of the population?

You say that subsequent polls have been different - perhaps you've also noticed that the government's stance is now different? All they have ever needed is a mandate from a majority of the population.

Terry

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 04:06 AM

Now what was the name of that bloke? Gerry Mandering or something like that.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 04:28 AM

Gerrymander - In 1812 Governor Eldridge Gerry of Massachussets revised local Congressional boundaries so as to prevent his fellow Democrats from suffering an ignominous defeat. The painter Gilbert Stuart saw a map of the area in question while working at the Boston Centinel newspaper, declared it to resemble a salamander, and promptly augmented it with wings, claws and a beak to create a cartoon. His editor, Benjamin Russell, decided that Gerry-mander was a more appropriate name for it, and the word almost immediately became the popular term for any unfair adjustment of electoral boundaries, as the Gerry-mander cartoon was subsequently copied extensively in political literature. Stuart's other, greater claim to fame is as the painter of George Washington's portrait as used on the one dollar bill, and Gerry emerged from the scandal relatively unscathed, going on to be James Madison's Vice-President.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His ghost is still around today, moving electoral boundaries to keep Americans free, of the other party!
Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: ard mhacha
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:04 AM

Terry the plain facts are these, the majority in Britain want to get rid of NI, the majority of the whole of Ireland want unificaction, and why wouldn`t they, after all the Republic`s citizens have this week been elevated to second place as the most prosperous people in the world.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:41 AM

Well Ard the fuel may be cheaper, but just about everything else is more expensive, so why wouldn't it be prosperous?
G.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 08:46 AM

Time to move this one to the BS bit.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Fiolar
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:03 AM

Never mind guys. The latest news is that some of the top Orange Men are intending to turn the July 12th marches into carnivals in the same way as the Notting Hill one in London.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: woodsie
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:39 AM

What, are they going to start robbing & stabbing people then?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: s&r
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 04:55 PM

Below the line PLEASE

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:01 PM

Note this thread was initiated by "Mindblaster" who no doubt is taking great satisfaction in what he's been able to stir up. That's not to say that some good points haven't been registered in this thread, amidst the re-hash of polar opinions.

Of course, I initially assumed this thread had to do with Individual Retirement Accounts, known as IRA's.;~)

So, Mindblaster, are you satiated?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: mindblaster
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 12:55 PM

No

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,An Englishman
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:00 PM

Yes, loads of plastic micks and some real micks all with their plastic alarm clocks and some real ones, spewing out their venom against those who have after conquest legally ruled them since about 1600. Loads of them here who make it necessary to show real courage (more than I've got) on this forum to accuse their terrorists of being the terrorists they are.

If the Americans are so fond of people having a right to self determination why don't they rise up and condemn the Israeli murder of Arabs? Why are they not having public collections to buy arms for Hezbollah as they used to for the IRA?

How about the USA sending England a stock of smart missiles so that England can deal with Irish terrorists the way Israel does Arab ones - destroying infrastructure wantonly killing non-combatants, and planning a final solution?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:19 PM

Don't ya jus luv da english! Chip?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 08:32 PM

*sigh*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Effsee
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 09:59 PM

"with their plastic alarm clocks and some real ones"
Eh?

"who have after conquest legally ruled them since about 1600"
Eh? Conquest does not confer legality.

"Loads of them here who make it necessary to show real courage (more than I've got) on this forum to accuse their terrorists of being the terrorists they are.
WTF are you talking about?


"How about the USA sending England a stock of smart missiles so that England can deal with Irish terrorists the way Israel does Arab ones - destroying infrastructure wantonly killing non-combatants, and planning a final solution? "

Oh right, lay waste to Dublin?
They already did that in 1916, didn't work then, wouldn't work now!

One man's terrorist is another's Freedom Fightter.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:15 PM

WHY IS THIS STILL ABOVE THE LINE?????????

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 06 - 10:38 PM

Pardon me...I didn't read most of the above....I have respect for SOME humans, NOT for 'entities'

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: stallion
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:02 AM

It really is time for this thread to end, I know just how deep rooted the rancur is on both sides but threads like this will not end the healing process here in the Uk and Eire, we will eventually learn to rub along and put the past behind us. One thing that does stick in my craw though, the US could have done more, diplomatically, to bring it to an end sooner and chose not to, I haven't been motivated to examine in detail why that was but it may be a worthwhile study.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:09 AM

Yes I was baffled by the "plastic alarm clocks" too....but SOME of the other things ring true, despite being badly put perhaps.

We should all know better than to get onto this topic by now...there is nothing better guaranteed to get normally sane & sober Mudcatters ranting & sh*t-slinging than this topic.

Yes, WHY is it still above the line, WHY did we get suckered into it again, & why does this like nothing else make some people try & be determined to have the last word........& why did I post this & not leave Sorcha as the final voice of reason on this thread?

Paul

(1/8th Irish by blood, if not by culture)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:10 AM

.......& yes, well said Stallion in that.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: s&r
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:14 AM

Can some elf or joeclone put this below the line?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:24 AM

Conrad Veidt - he played the German officer in Casablanca


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786412895/104-0958108-2647957?v=glance&n=283155

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 04:50 AM

I was thinking that 'drummer...then got sidetracked before looking it up.

...& btw, while Im posting, I have to apologise to everyone. I was wrong. I said "there is nothing better guaranteed to get normally sane & sober Mudcatters ranting & sh*t-slinging than this topic."

That was untrue.

The present Iraq situation (& anything around it) does too.

In that case though it tends to be DIFFERENT Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:03 AM

Oh right, lay waste to Dublin?
They already did that in 1916, didn't work then, wouldn't work now!

Did they? What history book is that in then? I don't think even the most ardent republican on this site would claim that the British lay waste to Dublin. If they did the 50 intervening years between then and my first visit there must have been pretty remarkable ones fo the Irish building industry. No wonder Irish builders are so popular in England!

I do wish people, on all sides, would stop making silly unsubstantiated comments.

And yes - below the line plase.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:07 AM

Dave, you should be the LAST person to mention Irish builders.... did you not watch 'Fawlty Towers' then? *G*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:16 AM

I was NOT that gnome...

And thanks to whoever for dropping this into the cellar.

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:19 AM

Sorry Dave ...couldnt resist!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:28 AM

...AND:

Way back up near the top of this thread Keith A of Hertford responded to a post by Big Mick, thusly:

..."Mick,
The British don't really sing songs about heroes.
There are a few 19th Century ones about the likes of Wolfe, and Nelson, but very few and rarely heard.
I can think of none about 20th Century heroes."

Here is at least one though:


In a station in the city a British soldier stood
Talking to the people there if the people would
Some just stared in hatred, and others turned in pain
And the lonely British soldier wished he was back home again

Come join the British Army! said the posters in his town
See the world and have your fun come serve before the Crown
The jobs were hard to come by and he could not face the dole
So he took his country's shilling and enlisted on the roll

For there was no fear of fighting, the Empire long was lost
Just ten years in the army getting paid for being bossed
Then leave a man experienced a man who's made the grade
A medal and a pension some mem'ries and a trade

Then came the call for Ireland as the call had come before
Another bloody chapter in an endless civil war
The priests they stood on both sides the priests they stood behind
Another fight in Jesus's name the blind against the blind

The soldier stood between them between the whistling stones
And then the broken bottles that led to broken bones
The petrol bombs that burnt his hands the nails that pierced his skin
And wished that he had stayed at home surrounded by his kin

The station filled with people the soldier soon was bored
But better in the station than where the people warred
The room filled up with mothers with daughters and with sons
Who stared with itchy fingers at the soldier and his gun

A yell of fear a screech of brakes the shattering of glass
The window of the station broke to let the package pass
A scream came from the mothers as they ran towards the door
Dragging their children crying from the bomb upon the floor

The soldier stood and could not move his gun he could not use
He knew the bomb had seconds and not minutes on the fuse
He could not run and pick it up and throw it in the street
There were far too many people there too many running feet

Take cover! yelled the soldier, Take cover for your lives
And the Irishmen threw down their young and stood before their wives
They turned towards the soldier their eyes alive with fear
For God's sake save our children or they'll end their short lives here

The soldier moved towards the bomb his stomach like a stone
Why was this his battle God why was he alone
He lay down on the package and he murmured one farewell
To those at home in England to those he loved so well

He saw the sights of summer felt the wind upon his brow
The young girls in the city parks how precious were they now
The soaring of the swallow the beauty of the swan
The music of the turning world so soon would it be gone

A muffled soft explosion and the room began to quake
The soldier blown across the floor his blood a crimson lake
There was no time to cry or shout there was no time to moan
And they turned their children's faces from the blood and from the bones

The crowd outside soon gathered and the ambulances came
To carry off the body of a pawn lost in the game
And the crowd they clapped and cheered and they sang their rebel song
One soldier less to interfere where he did not belong

And will the children growing up learn at their mothers' knees
The story of the soldier who bought their liberty
Who used his youthful body as a means towards an end
Who gave his life to those who called him murderer not friend.

SOLDIER
(Harvey Andrews)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul Burke
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:42 AM

One of the greatest acts of barbarian vandalism in Irish history was committed when the Free State Army and the Diehards between them blew up the Four Courts in Dublin, along with over 1000 years of manuscripts in the Records Office. Along with the burning of many local records in the insurgency, it has meant that genealogical research largely reaches a full stop if your ancestry is Irish.

But as to the original comment, I've not heard a good old rebel song in ages. Even, or perhaps especially, in Irish circles. So here's one, not implying any support for terrorism or colonialism and with full sympathy for the human beings injured or killed in the incident:

As I roved out by Newry Town
A band of men I saw,
It was the First Battalion of
The men from South Armagh.

Ch: With me diddy-i-oh, fol-a-doh, diddy-i-o-i-ay (whatever that means)

"Oh have you crossed the border,
And have you travelled far?
Did you see the English soldiers?
Were they in their armoured car?"

Ch.

"Yes I have crossed the border,
And I have come that far,
I saw fifteen English soldiers,
They were in two armoured cars."

Ch.

And soon we saw the armoured cars
and they were coming fast.
A young man pulled a lever
And there was a mighty blast.

Ch.

We opened up along the ditch
With everything we had,
And when the firing finished
We knew we had them bad.

Ch.

Now the fighters in this gallant band
They numbered barely ten,
They were neither man nor devil,
Sure they came from Crossmaglen.

Ch.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 05:50 AM

Conciliatory stuff that!
G.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Keith fan
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:25 AM

Say Hello To The Provos is an Irish Rebel/folk song written in the early 70s which deals with events happening at that time in Irish history, namely The Troubles. The "Provos" in the song's title were the Provisional IRA. "The Provos" was a popular nickname for them used by both sides of the Troubles.


Lyrics

Chorus

    "Say Hello To The Provos,
    Say hello to the brave,
    Say hello to the Provos,
    And Ireland shall be saved.

    It all happened in '71,
    Internment it had just begun,
    Men were taken by the point of a gun,
    Remember, we shall remember.

Chorus

    Many a battle has been fought and won,
    Many a home has lost a son,
    Long Kesh's gates shall soon be undone,
    Remember, we shall remember.

Chorus

    The UFF and SAS,
    Assassinations at their best,
    Innocent people they put to their deaths,
    Remember, we shall remember.

Chorus

    Dáithí Ó Conaill we honour your name,
    Those British generals you put them to shame,
    For Stormont's downfall you were to blame,
    Remember, we shall remember.

Chorus

    So put your faith in the Provos,
    Put your faith in the brave,
    Put your faith in the Provos,
    And Ireland shall be saved."

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 07:37 AM

As I roved out by Newry town... (Paul Burke's post) has been posted once or twice before but if I am not mistaken the tune has not been mentioned yet. It is sung to the tune of "The battle of Harlaw" (in the DT).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 08:19 AM

now my song for you this evening
well it ain't to make you sad
nor for adding to the sorrows
of this troubled northern land
but lately I been thinking
and it just won't leave my mind
to tell you about two friends of mine
who were both good friends one time
now alan bell from benagh
he lived just across the fields
he was a great man for the music
and the dancing and the reels
o'malley came from south armagh
to court young alice fair
and often we'd meet on the ryan road
and laughter filled the air

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people ran together

alan he was protestant
and sean was catholic born
but it never made any difference
you know the friendship it was strong
and sometimes in the evening
when we'd hear the sound of the drums
well we said it wouldn't divide us
you know we'd always be the ones
for the ground our fathers ploughed in
well the soil is just the same
and the places where we say our prayers
have just got different names
and we talked for hours about those who died
and hoped there'd be no more
it was little then that we realised
the tragedy in store

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people ran together

well it was on a sunday morning
that the awful news went round
another killing had been done
just outside of newry town
we knew that alan danced up there
and we knew he loved the band
but when we heard they'd shot him dead
well we just couldn't understand
and we gathered at the graveside
on that cold and rainy day
and the minister he closed his eyes
and prayed for no revenge
and all the ones who knew him
from all along the ryan road
well they bowed their heads
and they said a prayer
for the resting of his soul

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people ran together

now fear it ruled the countryside
there was fear in every home
when the car of death came prowling
round the ryan road
a catholic will be killed tonight
to even up the score
o christ it's young o'malley
they've taken him from the door
"alan was my friend" he cried
he begged them with his fear
but centuries of hatred
have ears that cannot hear
an eye for an eye
was all that filled their minds
and another eye for another eye
till everyone is blind

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people ran together

now my song for you this evening
well it ain't to make you sad
nor for adding to the sorrows
of this troubled northern land
but lately I been thinking
and it just won't leave my mind
to tell you about two friends of mine
who were both good friends one time

I don't know where the moral is
or where this song should end
but I wonder just how many wars
are fought between good friends
I know that those who give the orders
well they're not the ones to die
it's bell and o'malley
and the likes of you and i

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people...

there were roses, roses, roses
and the tears of the people ran together

There Were Roses
by Tommy Sands (I think?)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM

does anyone know that parody of the Wurzels - i've got a brand new combine harvester - only its about an armoured car?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:00 AM

This the one I meant

http://www.vincentpeters.nl/triskelle/lyrics/kinkyboots.php?index=080.010.040.050

Anybody know anything about it? it was popular on the jukebox at a pub I used to play in Nottingham.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:22 AM

a couple more songs by the same author

http://celtic-lyrics.com/forum/index.php?autocom=tclc&code=artists&id=189

I think if you read through the lyrics Keith, you will see what I have been driving at in various posts.

The people who write, sing, applaud songs like this - they 'feel' different. Ricochet-ing facts off each other isn't going to do anything but increase rancour.

I personally find some of the abuse and rudeness which accompanies this very unacceptable, in what is ostensibly a forum for friendly exchanges. But face the facts, civilised dialogue on this subject isn't going to break out. Not when there are sensibilities out there waiting to be outraged, serious doubts about the popular warcries and slogans of every faction, and stinging abuse is such fun to deliver.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:33 AM

I see now that the thread has been moved to BS people are giving lyrics, and links to them.
G

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:39 AM

I do see what you are saying WLD, but

on no other area of dissent would anyone say, "just let them say what they like, otherwise they get angry and abusive."

Remember my only point of disagreement with them is that I believe the violence was counterproductive.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:26 AM

No Keith you have misunderstood my point. They are going to say what they want, whatever you say.

No doubt in the fullness of time(another 600 years or so) they will apreciate that they have to say something marginally different to get a united Ireland, and get on with their Unionist mates.

However that time is not here.

In the interim, you popping up like a Harry Enfield sketch in a nightmare, ('Now you got that bit wrong, I don't really think you meant to say that........).

Well ......it isn't adding to the gaiety of nations.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:30 AM

Damn, I needed cheering up 'drummer, & that bugger did it! Brilliant song!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:36 AM

WLD,
Yes, when I reread posts after a few days it often does look like that.
But they do say things that are wrong.
Blatant lies often.
It should not go un exposed should it?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:59 AM

yes I think so. just look at the emotional intensity of the songs. if truth is first casualty of war, they wouldn't be the first side involved that massacre. show a bit of tolerance.

i think to most people (apart from the odd yank who thinks he's an expert because he once had a tin of Irish stew) the violence and its effects speak for themselves.

lets just be glad there seems to be some turning away from it. constant bickering over over who was right....well it just won't get us anywhere.

divis and Ard do you know this guy who wrote these songs?

Glad you like it Paul. I thought it was a cut above the usual Boys of the Old Brigade and Sean South - more current, and a real sense of humour.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 11:20 AM

I am not sure WLD.
These are grown up men.
They can't help telling lies because of emotion?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 12:14 PM

So much of what is written by either side is maudlin sentimental rubbish, sort of thing that would bring a tear to glass eye, but only if the wearer was pissed.
Songs like the Foggy Dew, and the Patriot game only come once in a lifetime, too many of the others are used as propaganda weapons to arouse hate against the opposition, and if looked at dispassionately are pure doggerel.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 12:21 PM

grown up, but grown up different. different country, different mythologies, different gods to propitiate. their lives have their own parabola to describe.

put it this way. you never grew up in a place where joining the IRA seemed like a good idea.

I think it was Ionesco, the playwright - who said, we grow up with certainties, and when we learn a foreign language, you learn all these statements that you have taken for granted all your life -"the floor is up, the ceiling is down". and sometimes you think, is that really so.......?

for ard and divis, the floor and ceiling are probably someplace else. no dishonesty intended.    If I told the story of the miners strike, I imagine it would have some different truths to tell than a Mrs Thatcher fan.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 12:58 PM

When I left the certainty of teenage behind, I soon learned that issues that divide people are never clear cut, and that both sides are right or have right on their side.
In our folk music we sing songs from both sides.
But look at a recent example on this forum.
Sweeney included in a list of criticisms that I contributed to the I Met A War Hero thread.
When I asked what I had done wrong, Sweeney said that the man was involved in NI security.
Not asking if he was, or suggesting he might have been.
It was stated as if a fact.
We were even told that the man wore a NI service medal.
Hundreds of thousands grew up in turmoil of the troubles.
Compulsive lie telling is not an inevitable consequence.
It is just being used as a debating tactic.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 01:14 PM

I should also have said that most of our contributors are above such tactics.
You mentioned Ard. I would add Den.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 01:36 PM

if you concentrate on the specifics - you won't see it. because each set of circumstances is so compelling. take another look at those songs - look how people felt about the hunger strikers.

you're not going to see fairness, or even handedness from such a perspective . Maybe you can, if you're a saint like Nelson Mandela. But in this game, saintliness is obviously in short supply.

i can see what I am saying is having no impact.

what I mean is - you have to deal the fact that men are what they are - not what they should be. the key to communicating in this case is not going to be insisting that you are right.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:21 PM

Keith you have more GUEST posts on this site than half the members put together ! Come on mate put your hands.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Sceilg
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:39 PM

DIVIS SWEENEY left yesterday morning and Keith starts putting the boot in on him. Nasty.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:19 PM

uh?

& UH?

Divis Sweeney left? Whats that mean?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 02:42 AM

Bloody mudcat anti-irish squad out again!


I Have once been hit by an Englishman becouse I was singing with my band
an IRA song ........ and I aint gonna stop singing IRA songs or songs
about IRA or storys , becouse SOME ENGLISHMAN are telling me not to .



my wiew is very simple : English should leave North Ireland
and give the control to to Ireland, and thats the end that.
Afterwords the people can deside in alection what to do .

But I am told this is not a good way , what is a good way ??
this is the way , but there are always some Politicals
who stopp this .


well I am not gonna solve this here , and I have nothing
against either English people or IRA

All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:04 AM

Well said skarpi. Always be careful of grammar and punctuation. Keith is watching !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 04:15 AM

Skarpi,
I am english, and very sorry for your experience.
Folkies are usually OK, but other people are still angry about IRA bombs.
The British people and British government want to leave N.I., but the majority do not want us to go.
The majority is about to change.

Sweeney left?

I do not make Guest posts.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul Burke
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:06 AM

English leave NI? I bet most people in Britain would welcome that. Give it to Ireland? They wouldn't take it. I once thought that handing the country over to Iran might help, by uniting everyone against the occupiers, but recent events in Iraq have shown that to be a non- sequitur.

Perhaps there's some milage in creating a completely new federal state, consisting of Eire, Northern Ireland and Scotland. That way, you get a middle-sized European country of about 11 million people, with only a slight preponderance of Catholics. The Loyalists wouldn't have surrendered if the Queen became nominal head of state, though whether you could get the Republic to agree is another matter. And perhaps we could complement the Celtic Tiger with the Rangers Tiger.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:15 AM

If the UK really was democracy this problem would have been solved in 1921! [I think]
G.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:18 AM

Damn you, MacKenzie. I just had that 100 in my sights..:-)

:D (tG)

Who's favourite, incidentaly, was 'Thank God we're surrounded by water'.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:30 AM

There ya go DtG, I love it too, it's a lot less hate filled than the average sectarian song.
Giok

Sorry about the centenarian steal [not]

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Charmain
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:42 AM

If Eire had given up its "neutrality" during WWII then Churchill would have given her NI for keeps - FACT!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:52 AM

Thanks Giok:-)

I never knew it was one of Mr Behans! I love that last verse - Says far better than I could that it is the top dogs that cause the problems. Get rid of the buggers. Up the revolution:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Sceilg
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:51 AM

Maybe the anti Irish member could give us a break for a few days and let us enjoy a great weekend of music. With the like of Glen Campbell, Emmylou Harris, Kenny Rogers, Folklore and Van Morrison on the bill for Midlands, a new festival which takes place in Ireland this weekend.

The two-day festival takes place at Ballinlough Castle, Athboy, Co Meath on Friday 28 and Saturday 29 July, with capacity limited to 15,000.

Now all we need is the weather !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 09:42 AM

I hope you get your good weather Sceilg, and I wish I could get there.
If you were meaning me, you have got me all wrong.
As I have said before, I love Ireland and all things Irish.
(except paramilitary violence)
keith

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 05:22 PM

Dear Keith, why do IRA fight ???? why should IRA give up their weapons
if the British are not gonna do that ????    it not just fair
after all the British took their land and houses many hundred years ago right ??? and so did the Vikings ...



well I am sorry that IRA is Bombing and hurting people who have done nothing and I am a against that they should not do that ....
but I am more suprised that they did not try other ways to fight the british without hurting poeple , there are other ways to fight them
I am not gonna tell here how ....

but its PEACE I WANT TO SEE ,,

I walked through the airport in North Ireland in Belfast with a
woollen cap that my wife gave to my before I went to Portaferry
2004 to meet up with my friends of Mudcat and I was asked to take it
of becouse it had the colours of the IRISH FLAG ????? I didint
take it off and I am gonna wear it next February in Portaferry
I have my believes and I stick to them no-one tells me other wise .

well my friends thats the end of that ... lets all enjoy the weekend and listen to the folk music country music or waht ever we like :>)

All the best from a Islander from north atlandic Island

Iceland Skarpi Iceland .....I hope that I do not hurt anyone with my writing ......

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:22 PM

To the person who said this, "I walked through the airport in North Ireland in Belfast with a woollen cap that my wife gave to my before I went to Portaferry 2004 to meet up with my friends of Mudcat and I was asked to take it of becouse it had the colours of the IRISH FLAG ????? I didint take it off and I am gonna wear it next February in Portaferry I have my believes and I stick to them no-one tells me other wise."

A woollen cap with the colours of the Irish flag! This is observed!!! What is wrong about being Irish? I would not want to encourage you to get into any trouble at the airport in Belfast, but if you are Irish be proud of it, it does not matter what anyone says. I guess the reason why they asked you to take off your cap maybe was to avoid any trouble from other people that are anti Irish.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:28 PM

I appreciate and understand the defense of your beliefs. Good for you, Skarpi.

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:29 PM

Sorry, that was me, Epona. I've lost my cookie and can't seem to find it. :)

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Sceilg
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:37 PM

Alison what skarpi and you said is correct, be proud, but sadly the loyalists don't see it that way ! Anything green and white is enough to get you beaten up, but their football team can wear it ! It's fine for them to cover the streets over there in Red white and blue and put street arches up where nobody wants them, but they know they have the repackaged RUC behind them. I live in London now and wear my Irish badges with pride and nobody seems to care.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Enda Murphy
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:55 PM

Alison,Sceilg,Epona and skarpi Best wishes tonight from Wexford Ireland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 03:04 PM

Thank you Enda Murphy and Sceilg for your comments here. I am British, but I do have some Catholic ancestors from Ireland and current Catholic relatives who live all over Ireland including the North, and I am very proud to be related to them. I care about people in Ireland and that is why I am trying to learn about them and Ireland. Fair play to you Sceilg, there is nothing wrong about being Irish and being proud of it. I wish you the best for your future as many Irish people have suffered during the conflicts in Ireland. I am lucky to be born and raised in England, as I have not suffered the way Irish people have over those years. I can only picture a thought of what it must have be like for Irish people that had to live in fear of sectarain violence from Loyalists, for example having your house burnt down or losing one of your children through the conflicts. I can only hope that one day there will be peace for Ireland so these hurtful wounds can be healed in the years to come. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 03:16 PM

How do you Irish Americans feel about seeing the Stars and Bars burnt in the streets of any US town?
G.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 03:26 PM

Probably would burn easier than the Union Flag of United Kingdom, less blood on it.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Epona
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:04 PM

Folkies supporting IRA to the Stars and Stripes being burnt in the US...Taking a cue from Keith on thread drift, are we? In that case, you learn well, young grasshopper.

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:14 PM

Epona it is relevant inasmuch as the nationalist supporters in Norn Iron fly the Irish tricolour in a country where the Union jack is the official flag for better or for worse. These people I suggest would never fly the Union Jack, but would happily watch it burned. We do not have laws in this country about how the flag should be displayed, but I believe they do in the US. I was just attempting to point up the differences between our two countries.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Epona
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:18 PM

Ooh! I love discussing differences because it's great to learn about other places. But, maybe you should start a new thread? We only have approx. 7 about Ireland going at this moment. Why not make it 8?

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:19 PM

Oh Giok, need to check you, under government rules the Irish flag can be flown in Northern corner. It is still Ireland, British government accepts that.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Epona
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM

And, since we're sidetracking, we let anyone fly their flag here. We're a country of immigrants as you may be aware and so different flags are all over the place. Just because the US flag is this country's official mark, we don't ban anyone's right to be proud of their heritage and culture and fly a flag symbolic of that.

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:25 PM

No rules about flags here either.
people can and do fly what they like, or none.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:35 PM

I reckon you could be jailed for burning the Stars and Stripes in the US whereas if the Union Flag was burnt anywhere in the UK no charges would be made.
G

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 05:50 PM

What has to do with Irish folk music ? Why visit I ask.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 06:14 PM

I'm not as thunk as some dreople pink I am!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Epona
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM

No, actually. It's customary to burn the American flag if it touches the ground. And, no, we don't jail people for burning the flag, though with our current president, that may be altered.

E

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 08:25 PM

At least stallion has brought a new dimension to these Mudcat wrangles, with some very perceptive points - especially about the class divide in his first post. I remember how absurd it was that in the late 1060s and early 70s the Belfast branch of the Communist Party of Ireland was unable to canvass in the working-class districts of east Belfast and Shankill Road because its first objective was a united Ireland. The British and Irish Communist Organisation (BICO) on the other hand had no such difficulty - its primary objective was socialism north and south of the border, from which it was hoped unity would follow.

I have always been interested by the few politicians and leaders who have broken out a bit from the constraining mono-cultural outlook that the troubles forced on so many people - the ones who have attempted to address working people regardless of their polico/religious/national affiliations. People like Glen Barr and PAddy Devlin come to mind.

Skarpi, I don't remember you mentioning that airport anecdote, and it was me that took you back to the airport. Maybe you are confused by what Brendy posted here about your hat, at the time. Your hat looked nothing like anything any Irish guy (or Brit) would wear, and had a complicated pattern. I don't think anyone could have read political significance into it, although it might possibly have provoked reaction from any fashion-sensitive observers. *G*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Amergin
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:51 AM

Quote: "I remember how absurd it was that in the late 1060s and early 70s the Belfast branch of the Communist Party of Ireland"


Odd, I didn't realise communism was around in the 11th century.... BG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:39 AM

Oh yes we had a certain Comrade William the Conqueror arrived at Hastings in 1066, that was one in the eye for the ruling classes.
Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:34 AM

Nic toczek the performance poet used to do a gig round America where he burned the American flag, and it always got a response.

whereas you could burn the Union Jack most places in England and no one would give a shit - maybe a few right wing nutters, but they would probably be offensive anyway,

the national flag seems to mean more to the generality of American people than it does to the English.

Its a bit like the anti-English comments, that are on these Irish themed threads. It would probably be upsetting to most English people that someone should want to make such a comment, but the comment itself would be largely water off a duck's back - it wouldn't really register.

The English and patriotism is a bit like the English and their spiritual life - not at all straightforward. The English are deeply Christian - how could they be otherwise after all these centuries of it being part of our culture, but the churches are in ruins everywhere.

My Irish friends tell me that they have their own set of complicated cultural responses to all these things - stuff that an English person would never pick up on.

Sometimes you feel that language isn't the best means of communication. we just need to know each other better.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:57 AM

As are the anti-Irish comments on these threads. Good point WLD

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:19 AM

I am pretty amazed that someone thinks he can sing a song eulogising terrorists without offending people.

I really would not recommend "The old alarm clock" in Guildford.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:33 AM

Nor "Soldiers of the Queen" in Derry.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:52 AM

In the same way as those who condemn the Israelis for bombing women and children in south Lebanon conveniently neglect to mention the suicide bombers who do the same to defenceless Jewish women and children in buses and cafes.
The people who condemn any post that they construe as anti Irish, feel free to insult the Brits in their rebuttal, and see nothing odd about it.
Truly prejudice like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Giok

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:57 AM

True Giok, very true

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 01:59 PM

fascinating Peter Fionn - about communists.

My cousin Bernard had the advantage (ho hum!) of an education from Irish catholic priests. When were little kids in the 1950's, we were quite inseparable - he used to assure me that communist soldiers in the eastern bloc spent all their time throwing catholic babies onto bayonets. the priests had told him to hate English communists like Frank Cousins, the trade unionist.

what I mean is the catholics had set their face pretty firmly against the communists at that stage - and it was a theme you found echoed in american tv drama series at the time - coomunists as enemies of the church.

That's just my recollection, but I should have thought most communists would have had a pretty thin time of it in Ireland at that period. Correct me if I'm wrong in my surmises.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:56 PM

Skarpi, I don't remember you mentioning that airport anecdote, and it was me that took you back to the airport. Maybe you are confused by what Brendy posted here about your hat, at the time. Your hat looked nothing like anything any Irish guy (or Brit) would wear, and had a complicated pattern. I don't think anyone could have read political significance into it, although it might possibly have provoked reaction from any fashion-sensitive observers. *G*

Dear Peter , brendy told me that it would not be a good idea to wear it at the airport , in the mean time after you left us an English man
told me to take it off ................ it have the Irish color on it
and I like it a lot but if it s gonna be hot next february I am not gonna wear , but in " in the airport " i am ....

And Peter are you coming to Portaferry ??


Your hat looked nothing like anything any Irish guy (or Brit) would wear, Peter I am an Icelander ......

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:25 PM

skarpi, I am enjoying reading your posts here. I have been away since Tuesday morning and I just had to get back on to see what I have either been blamed on or called ! It's great to see you here. There are many members like yourself with an understanding to the problems we face here in Ireland. Now you will see some anti-republican posts appear from time to time, never get annoyed at them, the rest of us find them a source of amusement ! It's so funny how some seem to think they are informed about Irish affairs, really they just search the net to find figures and throw up well doctored accounts at us. As you are no doubt aware our war came to an end exactly a year ago and we are now confidence to finding a peaceful political settlement. Please note this does not suit everyone, sorry, it doesn't suit one member. We have come far in the last twelve months and it's great to see it. Remember if you require the truth about anything concerning Irish history, don't hesitate to ask, always glad to help. You know yourself always best to ask someone who has lived through it than someone who can only read about it and who gives nothing more than consistently Biased one sided accounts.

Again great to see you here.

Divis

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:15 PM

Well said Divis! I am new on here and I am also from England. I do have some Catholic ancestors from Ireland and some current relatives living all over Ireland including the North. It is nice to know there is someone willing to answer questions about Ireland. I will admit that I do not know much about Irish affairs. I am just trying to learn about Ireland and understand the people who live there. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:24 PM

PM me, that's just click the small pm beside my name if you want any DVD's sent over, always glad Alison to spread the truth.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:27 PM

She cant if she's a Guest, I dont think...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:31 PM

Thanks Paul I thought guests could, well good reason for her to join us.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:36 PM

You might be right, but yep, she might as well join...bugger the expense! *G*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:47 PM

Paul it's a great place to be, I always get insulted, love it !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:51 PM

What, ALWAYS?

Hey if thats so, it says more about you mate than it does about anyone else here! *G*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:54 PM

Sorry Paul, love the site, not getting insulted. I get enough of that at home.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:12 PM

There is a glib response to that, but it could be construed (though not actually meant) as an insult (or a jibe really) in itelf, so I'll not.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:16 PM

Thanks Paul, but you still thought about it ! Don't worry once daylight comes and my return is noticed, the insults won't be far away.
Now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's
Sleep well in Hull.
Night from Ireland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:17 PM

Hmmmm.

G'night Divis.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:38 AM

Hi Divis , dont worry I will ask for Info when I need it.
I am coming to N-Ireland in February and going down to Newcastle,
Mountains of Mourne and Down-Patrick and then to Portaferry
then to Dublin and back home so maybe we meet in N-Ireland
who knows :>)


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:37 AM

You should visit Rostrevor and Warrenpoint which are a few miles from Newcastle. Also Cloughmore stone in the Mourne mountains at Kilbroney park Rostrevor and look out over Carlingford Lough from the beautiful Fiddlers Green. Be in touch.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:17 PM

This is an absolute joke this page, whate are you all talking about Britain not being murderous, HAVE YOU NEVER WONDERED WHERE THE NAME 'BUTCHERS APRON' CAME FROM FOR THE UNION JACK.
BRITAIN MURDERED POOR INOCENT PEOPLE IN IRELAND, BURNED THEM OUT THERE HOMES, HUNG WOMEN AND HUNG THEIR CHILDREN FROM THEIR HAIR.   THE IRA YOU ARE THINKING OF IS THE MODERN PROVISIONAL IRA WHICH DID THE BOMBINGS, THE ORIGINAL IRA WERE A FREEDOM FIGHTING FORCE WHO WERE FIGHTING QUITE RIGHTLY FOR THEIR FREEDOM. EXACTLY LIKE WILLIAM WALLACE AND HIS BAND OF REBELS AND BONNIE PRINCE CHARLIE AND HIS REBELOUS JACOBITES. BRITAIN ARE MORE BARBARIC THAN ANYONE, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY GET THE KNICKNAME 'THE HUNS'??? BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST LIKE BARBARIC GERMANIA OF THE ROMAN TIMES. SO DONT'T GIVE ME THIS NONSENSE OF BRITAIN NOT BEING BARBARIC AND MURDEROUS.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:21 PM

THE IRA ARE NOT A TERRORIST GROUP THEY ARE A CELTIC, GAELIC REBELLION JUST LIEK SCOTLAND AND THERE TROUBLES WITH THE ENGLISH. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG ABOUT SINGING ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY AND THE HARD TIMES THEY WENT THROUGH, YOUR COUNTRYS HISTORY SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN. IT IS JUST UNFORTUNATE THAT THE PROVISIONAL IRA HAVE GIVEN IRELANDS FREEDOM FIGHTERS A BAD NAME.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 06:48 PM

I WISH I COULD TALK COMPLETELY IN CAPITALS AND GET AWAY WITH IT...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:05 PM

typical barbaric muderous remark D the G...behave yourself!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 04:38 AM

:-P

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:33 AM

He was only writing like that so we wouldn't recognise his handwriting. I didn't know that Scotland was a Celtic, Gaelic rebellion, though, I thought it was that place a bit up past Newcastle.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 05:34 AM

Guest, I am not on any side of the fence here, as I am just trying to learn about Ireland. I am British from England. Yes, I do think that our side have played a part in the conflicts. Yes, we have done terrible things to Irish people in Ireland over those years. Irish people have suffered terribly through the conflicts from all sides of the fence here. I never said personally that the any IRA organisation were terrorists, I don't know enough about them to call them that. I said something like, an Irish person who likes to wear a cap of the trio-colours of their flag should be allowed to wear it and be proud to be Irish. I hope I did not to offend you here about the Irish flag. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 06:33 AM

*ROFL* ....so we wouldnt recognise his handwriting....

Nice one, Other Paul!

(still trying to reonise Guest Alisons handwriting...)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 09:28 AM

Alison, the chap with the tri-colour hat (Skarpi) isn't Irish: he's an Icelander, and was visiting Northern Ireland for a Mudcat gathering!

As an outsider, he probably has no more insight into Irish matters than Englanders like you or I, but he now has first-hand experience of some of the problems.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 10:37 AM

Thank you Snuffy for filling me in here, as I am new on here.
Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:25 PM

I reckon you get that picture very sharply from mudcat.

Outsiders seem to see Northern Ireland politics as a sort of football game, and they take one side or another. they tend to be a lot more gung ho than Irish people in their approbation or the opposite of the various factions.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 12:53 PM

Alison I also went onto that site and asked three questions about Northern Ireland and they removed it. It wasn't rude, but they blocked me from returning. Very one sided.
Best wishes
Fiona

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,dax
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 04:37 PM

The greatest sin of modern day Britain is that they perceive themselves as being some kind of moderating factor in Ireland. This is exactly what they are not! Time to pack it up and get to hell out and let the Irish themselves decide their own destiny . You can not be part of a solution when you are regarded as the problem. You gave Hong Kong back to China so give Ulster back to Ireland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 06:15 PM

Hi Fiona, thanks for you reply here. All I asked them was why they were so one-sided and why was their Website FAIR not anti Unionist or anti Loyalist as well, as they are all anti IRA. My posts were deleted too. I was not hostile at all, as I even stated that I am not on any side of the fence in Ireland and that I was just trying to learn about Ireland. They have insulted my name and they have accused me of being a republican and a member of Sinn Fein. It is all ridiculous! Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 06:43 PM

Alison all I asked was about South Armagh !
My mother was born there and I was doing a search and came across their site. My question was about Cullyhanna and the townlands. They replied that I was asking about an area full of I.R.A. men and removed my post. I tried to get back on to reply and found I was blocked. Silly little men. My partner visits this site and told me they were talking about the group known as F.I.A.R. Not very fair to us !
Fiona

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,An Englishman
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 06:50 PM

The English were the lawful rulers of Ireland from the time that Oliver Cromwell (otherwise to be execrated as a regicide) conquered that place. The English (and British) armies targeted traitors rebels and terrorists and their supporters (as Israel is now doing in Lebanon). The IRA and provos killed mostly civilians.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:18 PM

They also removed quite a few of the invading British army and the British Royal Ulster Constabulary. The British army also killed many civilians. The British army are now leaving Ireland the British Royal Ulster Constabulary went a long time ago. Britain were never the lawful rulers in Ireland. As an America we supported the Irish RA. Few Irish Americans cried at the sight of British army coffins leaving Ireland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,An Englishman
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:31 PM

Yes I accept our soldiers murdered civilians. Yes the IRA and provos shot many soldiers in gun battles. What I am saying is it's time we left Ireland we tried and failed to conquer her.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 04 Aug 06 - 08:34 PM

Fiona, thanks again for your reply on here. I have got relatives all over Ireland and Northern Ireland too, but I have so many I don't know all of them. To give you all the places where they live, I would have to write a long list. I was trying to learn more about Ireland for interest in Irish life and for family history purposes.

About the Website FAIR they have been exposed as a cover Website for Loyalists. Believe me stay a way from that site, they are very very anti Catholic, as my family were and are all Catholics in Ireland. These people, which are Loyalists, are similar to the BNP in England I was told. They are so one-sided and if you are not agreeable to them they will delete your posts. There is nothing fair about FAIR. The infomation they have on their Website are mostly propeganda news according to Irish people who live in Northern Ireland. The British Governmant has refused to give them any funding, which they FAIR were asking for. That Website brings nothing but hatred to Northern Ireland and now the now world knows it. They are snakes with venom waiting to bite someone that does not agree with them. At present they are angry because they have been defeated and you have arrived here on this forum in a ceasefire! Willie Frazer seems to be their leader, and when he came to England he got arrested by the police for something to do with protesting against Sinn Fein's Good Friday Agreement with the Britsh Government. I am not a politcal person here, but you can read about this on the D.U.P. Ivan Foster's Website, but it is all in support for Willie Frazer though. There might be real Loyalist & Unionist victims attached to this Website FAIR, but it is sad to use these victims as they have suffered too during the conflicts. When I found this Website FAIR for the first time I thought it was about all innocent victims from both sides of the conflicts, but it was not so I did asked and my post was deleted, because I said that Catholics should have a right to have a say. They replied to someone else and said Catholics should not have any rights at all or let alone allowed to live. I just thought I would fill you in up to date to what people are saying about the Website FAIR. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 06:00 AM

American Guest 08.18
Are you Native American?
If not you live on conquered land.
Feel like giving it back?
And what about the parts of Mexico you then conquered and subjugated?
Without Californian gold and Texas oil the flow of illegal immigrants might now be the other way.

The British army never came close to killing as many civillians as did either the Republican or the Loyalist paramilitaries.
The army is already off the streets and leaving because PIRA have stopped their bombing and shooting.
It could have happened 30 years ago but for them.

We only still rule the North because the majority of the people vote for it.
Thanks to demograpphy that is about to change.
No thanks to any paramilitary killing campaign.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 06:04 AM

Guest Dax,
The British can not wait to leave Ireland, if only the people of the North would please stop voting for British rule.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 06:49 AM

Hallo , Fiona, Alison , and the rest of you my friends .

Yes you can see the picture of me wearing the cap in Portaferry
at Mudcat I think if look for Portaferry 2004.


Slán go foil
All the best Skarpi Iceland


And we´re all off to Dublin in the green in the green .........

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 06:55 AM

Best wishes from Ireland skarpi. Nice to see you here along with the other right thinking folk. Great to see so many that see things our way.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 08:08 AM

Good morning Sweeney.
It is not like you to duck a question.
Joe Richman is still waiting on the other thread.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 09:48 AM

Good afternoon Keith.
Sorry I just went over to that thread again and can't see any question from Joe requiring an answer in his last post. Answered his earlier question. Have now asked him which question he expects an answer to.
Thanks

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 10:05 AM

I am sorry.
I thought his post raised several questions.
I should have let it go.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 10:40 AM

No problem Keith. Enjoy weekend.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 12:08 PM

And yourself Sweeney.
There was stuff there not discussed here before.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 12:53 PM

Keith,
Today I spoke face to face with my source of information regarding Tex Banwell.
He DID NOT serve in Northern Ireland as an adviser to the military command in Ballykinler or Palace Barracks as I was lead to believe.

He attended three charity jumps in the North of Ireland between 1968 and 1972.
He attended two functions as guest of honour at the Officers Mess in the said named barracks.

At no time was he involved in any operation decisions nor was asked to.

I appologise unreservedly to you for anything I posted claiming that he had.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 01:47 PM

Good man ya are, Divis.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 01:50 PM

And you Mick, hope all's well at that end.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 04:01 PM

Big Mick hi, our names have been disrespected on the Website FAIR by the Loyalist supporters. The Dan Darragh's are defending us. Do you remember replying to my post on their Website FAIR and they deleted both of our posts for telling the truth about their Website FAIR. At present they are angry that they have been defeated. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 04:08 PM

Fiona, your name has been disrespected today on the Website FAIR too, as Big Mick and I have had our names disrespected yesterday. These people from FAIR realy do tells a load of lies about us.
Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 04:11 PM

They sound as if their not nice people Alison.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 04:19 PM

Hi Guest, They are very nasty people on that Website FAIR. People get their posts deleted just for asking a simple question. Fiona only asked about a place in South Armagh and they told her the place is full of IRA men and deleted her post and have disrepected her name too. This is not right! This does not help the victims of the conflicts at all. It's so one-sided.

kind Regards to you.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 05:10 PM

Went onto F.A.I.R. Alison, creepy site.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 05:13 PM

hallo all , please give their webside .... I want to look .

All the best Ksarpi ICeland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 05:39 PM

www.victims.org.uk

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 07:23 PM

We Brits would gladly get out of Ireland if you Republicans would promise faithfully to keep all the Unionist loonies. We daren't leave because they'd all flock over here with their passports and we don't want them! Keep them and you can enjoy your fight for evermore. It will be just like Iraq. As the song says "an endless civil war". You're welcome. Will you keep 'em? Have we got a deal?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 05 Aug 06 - 08:12 PM

Skarpi my friend, the Loyalist Website FAIR is best avoided if you are sensitive to Irish issues. Be warned that it is so one-sided and hurtful to Irish people. They at FAIR are telling all lies, according to Irish people that live there in South Armagh.

Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 06:36 AM

I am just gonna look I am not gonna write anything ..........yet
all Best SkarpiIceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:30 AM

OKai I looked and I have a question ........

FAIR Director William Frazer exposes a 40ft. containor full of toxic waste left over from processing smuggled fuel. This hazardous waste was just abandoned on a country lane in South Armagh.


How did he know about it ?? was this a set up ????to blaim
it on IRA ??? or is it the truth ??????

and why do have all thouse Isreal links ????


Do we have any link to the IRA ?   on web?

what do a nation who come and take away from the native people
the land and burn their houses becouse they cant pay the tax or the (landlord) expect??? that everything is going to be fine ???
that was the doing in the past right or least it was in the past ..... Jesus maria I am gonna
sit down and try to get all the history of Ireland .. we sometimes
ask each other in my work this question " why are they fighting "
most of the Icelandic people dont understand this so where can I
get all the history ????


ofcourse we fight back , the Icelanders did that when the
British tryed take away the fishing right we had

How would the people of England feel if the Icelanders came
to England and acting like this take everything away from them
they would all fight back    right !!!


I know this is not an easy matter and we are NOT gonna solve this
here and everyone has a right to say what they wants to say about this as long as we do not hurt no one with words.

I mentioned the Isreal links ,,, Why? becouse I dont trust
Isreal .... we are haveing proplems with Icelanders in Isreal
they take our people to jail and are asking all kind a questions ???
why I have no Idea we dont know what we have done to them
just few days ago they took 17 years old boy onto jail
and hes from Iceland ..... and its sad to know that a people
who had to go through all that was done to them in the world
war 2 is doing almost the same thing to an another nation ????

Maybe now some one is going to be angry at me , but
this is what I wanted to say ( sorry ) if I have hurt anyone .


I am trying to be in the middle here but I am more Irish than ever
after I have gone through the history ... and I am not done with it .

The year 874 came a Viking to Iceland " Ingólfur Arnarson"
and saddle down in Reykjavík he came from W- Norway "
Sogn og Fjordene " and when I was in Norway last year I
was told about a journey that the Vikings took , and that was the
what I call the Celtic Triangle " Norway down to Danmark to Ireland
up to Scotland, Orkney Islands , Shetlands Island , Forojar Island
and up to Iceland and later to Greenland.

Maybe there is a connection .........   between us and Ireland ??

I have lot of good freinds in UK and I hope I will get more friends
there as in Ireland and I think everyone hopes deep inside their heart
that there will be a peace forever


I have to go now but I will be back ........


All the best SkarpiIceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:24 AM

I often wonder about those cassettes of Paisley's sermons, and what sort of spitual sustenance they offer? Has anyone tried them?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:25 AM

ICELAND and IRELAND

a 'c' and a 'r'

Its all that separates them. Like Kurt Vonnegut said, its a grand falloon.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:49 AM

Skarpi and Alision I went to that site read their guestbook nothing much about Ireland mostly sex chat.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

Skarpi, if you study Irish history far enough you will find the Danish connection.
They raided towns and villages carrying away slaves and loot, leaving survivors to starve.
They destroyed centres of culture and learning, the monastries.
Later they seized land and settled it themselves.
They did the same here.
But that is history. No one will go with guns and bombs to Denmark or Iceland to take revenge for what happened hundreds of years ago.
That would be stupid.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:19 PM

Like Britain did in Ireland to murder the population.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:31 PM

well Keith , as you may already know Iceland was under Danish
command and king as they ruled Iceland .

and I will remind you that the British coverment did sent
Big warships to Icelands coast with guns and bombs .....


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:33 PM

...& not a shot was fired, Skarpi!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM

You could have made a better pun WLD - All that seperates them r the c's...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:43 PM

that s true Paul thats so true , but never a less it was a message
the Icelanders to watch out , we had our cutting gear and they had their
guns and big boats

Hey paul did see the statue they put up in Hull ?

All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:50 PM

I dont believe there was any way that the Navy would have FIRED on your Gunboats, Skarpi, that just wouldnt have been acceptable.

Yes, have seen it...its a shame that the statue is all thats left of the fishing industry!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 04:57 PM

Paul thats true its a shame even today in Iceland the fishing
is just a small income of this nation most of the fish goes with flights to another countrys and never stopped here in Iceland .

less and less people wants to work in this work.

no it wouldnt Paul but thay crashed one of our gunboat and one
man died ....... I remember that crash it was taken up on a tape
and they showed it in a TV I cant remember if the man died in the
crash or after the crash ...

All the Best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:01 PM

Guest, you said "Skarpi and Alision I went to that site read their guestbook nothing much about Ireland mostly sex chat."

Loyalists from that Website FAIR have been recently defeated and they are angry about this, so they have lowered themselves and done thay by resulting to accused others of making comments about sex in their guestbook, which they have only made these comments themselves. They can't answer anyone's questions, if these questions do not support Loyalist's views. The Dan Darragh's were trying to have a political debate about Irish issues. The point of these arguments is to point out to people in the world that the Website FAIR is not a genuing site about victims at all. There maybe are real Loyalist and Unionist victims attached to this Website FAIR, but it is sad that they are being used in that way. There should be a Website about all victims from all sides of the fence here and it shoud be about helping them to come to terms with their losses. I am not on any side of the fence, but this Website FAIR is all anti IRA and this just brings hatred to Northern Ireland not peace at all. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:03 PM

Yes, its strange, but the only fish that comes into Hull now is from Icelandic vessels, I think.

As to the one unfortunate man who died, I THINK he was a welder, working on one of your boats, & the Navy ship warned your vessel that it was starting its engines & moving off. The water from the British ship went over the Icelandic vessel, & because the welder was using an electric arc welding torch, he was electrocuted & died.

But, its a long time ago now, & I may be wrong, but I thought that was what happened.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:11 PM

You are right Paul I just checked it in a book witch I have he was a welder ....


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Guest ..An Irishman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:11 PM

Quote.....The majority of the whole of Ireland want unificaction


Firstly it would be a landslide no fekin two ways about it.

Secondly nobody gives a feck anymore the battles won.

Sing your songs let never it be forgotten.Never let outsiders silence you.You know they dont hear the music like you do let it lift your hearts and f..k em.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:22 PM

Thanks for checking Skarpi

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 05:52 PM

An Irishman hi, I have read this year in that the majority of the British public are more in favour of an United Ireland with an Irish Rule according to various polls (sources available at the guardian.co.uk). With 40%+ of the population of Northern Ireland in favour of an United Ireland. I thought you might be interested.
kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,An Irishman
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:02 PM

Quote..[An Irishman hi, I have read this year in that the majority of the British public are more in favour of an United Ireland with an Irish Rule according to various polls (sources available at the guardian.co.uk)]

Glad to hear it how they think or poll is neither here nor there anyhow but nice to know.

Quote..[With 40%+ of the population of Northern Ireland in favour of an United Ireland. I thought you might be interested.]

Not interested no, how the Irish nation would vote definetly interested.

Sounds like we agree anyhow in a fashion lets leave it at that.

Kind regards also.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:24 PM

I would have thought you would be VERY interested to hear it?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:30 PM

Isn't Bob Williamson "Kippers for tea" from Hull ?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:37 PM

Didnt know, so I Googled it...(well, Yahoo'ed it actually) & apparently he's a Mancunian...ah, BOLTON

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:40 PM

Sorry ! Always thought he was from Hull,
he sang about the Iceland/Britain Cod War.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 07:42 PM

Ah right...dont know THAT one either...I'll keep on with this search, might find some good material!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Colin Poyntzpass
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:30 PM

Alison we had to remove your log from the guestbook as it seemed to favour republicans. Our site is attempting to honour those killed in the troubles. We are Christains and spread the word of God and give a broad understanding to all faiths. We don't need the type this of material. Colin F.A.I.R.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Colin Poyntzpass
Date: 06 Aug 06 - 08:34 PM

Sorry spelling error, Christians.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:25 AM

Our site is attempting to honour those killed in the troubles. We are Christains and spread the word of God and give a broad understanding to all faiths. We don't need the type this of material. Colin F.A.I.R.????


And its okai to talk about gay sex on this webside ?????

Sorry maid this is not the way to honour those who got killed .


All the best SkarpiIceland,.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 01:19 PM

Colin, go back to your Website FAIR. I told the Website FAIR that I was not on any side of the fence, but your Website is so one-sided and this does not help all victims does it?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 03:57 PM

Colin, On the Website FAIR in the Guestbook, I have been accused, from your side of the fence, of being a republican and a member of Sinn Fein offering sex to Ulster men to get them to change themselves to be republicans, which you know is all lies. Of cause I am offened, but I am not a hostile person. Being hostile does not help any situation here in Northern Ireland, there is no point in being hostile at all, as it serves not purpose either. There is enough hatred in Ireland as it is. I found that Republican people can answer my questions without any hatred to either side of the fence here and they don't block me out of their Guestbooks either for asking a simple question. They encourage a healthy debate on Irish issues. I was trying to learn about Ireland and I came across your Website FAIR. I thought your Website FAIR was genuing, but I found it to be one-sided. So I asked why it was so one-sided and why is it not anti Unionist and anti Loyalist as well as anti IRA? Also I found on the Website FAIR the ten volunteers were disrespected too, which this would have been hurtful to their families. Their families are victims too. I am not a political person, but there are real victims on the other side of the fence to you. The conflicts in Northern Ireland has hurt many families on both sides. I understand that your side has suffered due to the IRA, but others have suffered from Loyalists and Unionists. I would like to see you all at peace, but angering the other side to you does not bring peace at all and it is the victims that continue to suffered. Yes, the IRA have done this and that, but so has the Loyalists and Unionists too. I would like to see an end to sectarain violence in Ireland, maybe one day all of you will live together in peace, which I hope can be acheived!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 04:17 PM

Alison, Really I would stay away from these guys, they are not connected to mainstream groups, just fools and it sounds they are getting some form of a kick. I told you before I am more than glad to help you with any questions you may have. If Colin wants a debate he can call on me.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 05:47 PM

Divis, I have stayed a way from these guys, but as you can see they have contacted me. Thank you again for your concern here.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 06:02 PM

Colin, Any questions I am only to glad to answer. Alison has only asked questions or made comments in a polite and civil manner and it's only right she should receive a civil answer.
Thank you

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:53 AM

Sweeney,
Can you not recommend a Republican site where they do not take kindly to questioning sympathetic to the other side, so that Alison can have some balance.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 04:06 AM

Don't know any such sites Keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 05:02 AM

Colin Poyntzpass wrote: "We are Christains and spread the word of God and give a broad understanding to all faiths."

Well if that's Christianity, stuff it. The site is a vile heap of sectarian propoganda. If you think it's balanced, it's yourself that is unbalanced.

Now go away and create a site that commemorates ALL the victims, and I might think otherwise.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:30 AM

No one has the monopoly on suffering. There are victims everywhere over here. Yes I may honour dead Provisionals, but police and army and the man in the street mourn their losses to and should be allowed to.

If there was a site saying only the families of dead IRA should be honoured I would avoid it.

Many remarks here in the past have been anything but balanced.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:39 AM

I do agree Sweeney and Paul.
Alison seems a little obsessed with that website, which is not likely to be of any interest to anyone here.
No doubt she is right that it is one sided and full of prejudice.
Alison, Sweeney's advice to leave that site is probably wise.
Try some Republican sites. See if they are better or worse.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 06:54 AM

No doubt there are sites that rattle on about only Republicans suffered. Everyone suffered. No mother sent her son out to shoot a soldier or policeman. No mother asked her son to shoot the Irish when they joined the army. They are victims too.

These sites don't debate anything, they provide a service for a minority, Christ I listened to enough of them in the street on both sides without visiting their sites !

I think they insulted Alison that's the problem. Her skin not as thick as Keith's or mine !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:46 AM

Important point there, Divis.

I was at a party once that included many of my fellow Hibernians. This one fella was ranting on and on about "we shot down a helicopter" and talking about "we got a Brit soldier". Mind you he was sitting nicely on a deck in Michigan, safely stuffing his face with bbq chicken, and had never seen armed conflict anywhere but in his fucking fantasies. I got overwhelmed by my anger at his ignorance, (and maybe a bit of stout) and grabbed him by the throat. I asked him what the hell he knew about killing a man??? I was screaming at him, and wanting to know if he realized those "Brits" had sisters, brothers, Mothers, and Fathers. My politics are unequivocal on this matter, but I tire of those that demonize the other side for the sole purpose of making killing them justifiable. After my own experiences I decided that no one would be allowed to do that anymore. It made me challenge my own views with a much more critical set of criteria. There is no doubt that I am a very strong Republican supporter. I have spent my life advocating from this side for that. But such ignorance about the tragedy of young men going into perilous and deadly circumstances at the behest of old men, and why they do it, must not be tolerated. It makes violence and death easy and that must be stopped.

I believe that the peace is finally well on its way. I believe the end is near and it means that all of the Irish of the North of Ireland will live in one country. All sides have suffered through this time, and to deny that would only prolong the agony of a people. It will only delay the peace that the children of the North of Ireland so richly deserve. Up the Republic.

Mick

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:04 AM

All the best Mick.
keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:38 AM

Valid point Mick, heard these guys sounding off with a drop of the juice in them probably a lot more than you. They give me the shits. Laughed there when I read about him boasting about the helicopter, the PIRA never dropped one ! heard an asshole tell a similar story. To be honest Mick as your probably very well aware, the guys in the thick of it rarely speak about it. I have many very close friends who served long sentences and I can't remember the last time we had a political conversation, let along them boasting, which none ever did.

I saw a soldier shot, guy about 18. took a long time to die, called out for his mother the whole time. Saw young men I went to school with lying in coffins shot dead by British soldiers and closer to home in my own family. It is all terrible. When someone is killed in this way a lot more than them die, I watched mothers and fathers die a little each day because their will to live was lost.

Many rarely see this side of it, 26 years working in a hospital does kind of harden you a little. I know I get the crap knocked out of me here sometimes as if I came on to defend murder, I don't. I understood our cause and accepted in any campaign there will be losses on both sides, but I can never accept a legal government force calling us murders when their's in justified because laws protect them. I always tell everyone, the difference is, the so called terrorists are the ones with the small bombs !

We are well away from those days now, if only we can get the extreme loyalist political parties to accept this we can begin to build a country and let the people speak. Sinn Fein has never had a stronger voice, I never thought I would see the day the S.D.LP. got whitewashed by them in an election.

Now I do support Sinn Fein but have a few issues with them like many have with their own political parties.

My hope and wish for the future Mick is simple. Peace, no more killing and unity of the land I love.

Divis.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:53 AM

Thank you, Keith. I sincerely wish the same to you.

Agreed, Divis, with the point about they who get to write the laws, get to name the other. There is nothing but tragedy in armed conflict. It is why the followers are so much more important than the leaders. We must choose wisely who we follow. We must always be examining our reasons for fighting, killing, and dying. It is the only way we can stay true to ideals, and not be used by for the ulterior motives of others.

Mick

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 10:29 AM

Very well put, both Divis and Mick. I wish more people could see it that way. I must admit that I do get annoyed when people, whoever they are, are demonised by their 'enemies'. I have said over and over that the English and Irish people are not enemies. It is those faceless ones who pull the strings that have a lot to answer for. Perhaps this is a good time to ask ALL parties to stop it? Maybe we can make a start here on Mudcat that will show the rest of the world the way? I know, I know, idealistic but we can all dream...:-)

Maybe if the English stop posting about IRA 'terrorists' blowing up innocent civilians? Maybe if the Irish stop posting how the 'bastard brits' murdered their way through Belfast? Maybe we can help, in some small way, to show that we are all folk and, back to the subject, united in music?

All the best and good luck to those who want to join me!

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 10:37 AM

I will continue to challenge that which I think is wrong.
But I will not be starting anything.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 10:54 AM

Excellent post as always Dave.
This is what I meant about Big Mick and I seeing it first hand.
I could not agree more. Sadly you just got the answer I see.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:27 AM

Divis, I think that Colin would not debate with you because you support the republicans and PIRA. Colin would see you as the enemy as he would only debate with the Loyalist's side of the fence. I am not obsessed with the Website FAIR Keith, I just wanted to world to know the truth about it. They have been saying lies about me, which was not nice at all. I do admit that I do find republicains more fair and reasonable to talk with than Loyalist people. Yes, some Irish people have been hostile towards me with their words, but this is because they have been hurt by the British during the conflicts and are not ready to adjust to peace.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:35 AM

Well - Not starting anything is part way to stopping it:-)

Thanks Keith - I know you mean it and hopefuly when we get the inevitable troll, from either side, perhaps we can help each other to stop it!

Thanks Divis - I think more people understand how it feels now. I always knew, to a certain extent, what predjudice on religious and racial grounds meant. My surname when I was born was Polakow and my Grandfather was a Russian Orthodox priest. I know you must know how that must have been in a small town English Catholic primary school. I was lucky though. We only had to change our name and religion. At least no-one shot at me! Perhaps everyone needs a good dose of being on the other side of the fence occasionaly?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:52 AM

I forgot to relate a tale that happened to me some years back. We were stopping in Finugue, just outside Listowel and the birthplace of Sean McCarthy. We were lucky enough to be there during a McCarthy celebration and I was priveleged enough to meet his wife who remained in Finugue after Seans death.

Anyhow, during the festivities which were excelent there were many Republican ballads sung and I laughed as much as the rest when an old chap releted a story about the priest not forgiving one of the boys because he shot a 'tan - Missing the other two! Fantastic atmosphere all night and it was, believe it or not, a 'dry' venue. Although I did notice a few popping across to the pub occasionaly:-)

A couple of nights later I popped into town and saw a band performing in one of the bars. Not too good musicaly but keen and again a few republican songs were sung. I never once felt threatened or intimidated by them. Later that night though the Listowel branch of the Chelsea supporters club came in to drown their sorrows after having lost to Manchester United. Now that was scary.

Guess what? When asked I lied about coming from Manchester:-D

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:02 PM

Again wise words from a man I have come to admire greatly on this site. Thanks Dave.

There is a very simple answer to guest posts ignore them. I am fully aware that there are people out there who knows my style and arrive to stir the shit with other members , result I get the blame, not that either getting blamed on guest posting or abuse from members annoys me in anyway.

I don't walk away from a fight and yes I have and will continue to defend what was the Provisional IRA who are now disbanded and pose no threat.

The big difference here in any thread is I accept the PIRA carried out deeds which they have now apologised for. It will never be enough for Keith. His British army are yet to do the same.

If in the future I leave an Irish thread, it's not because I can't deal with Keith's questions, it's because he sits answering bloody guests who are taking the piss out of him and he can't see it.

A sad reflection is it used to be me answering several British members here, now it's usually only Keith. Tends to say something for the level of debate.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:50 PM

A few things I would like to challenge already, but I will let it pass this time.
Keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 08:38 PM

Yes nvkqbc blvpty
I could not agree more. Well said.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:49 AM

thats it Keith, keep up the all bran....you know it makes sense.

God I'm slow....

I just realised why they wanted captain Kirk for that campaign...

Shatner...

Shat....it all makes sense....... subliminal messages.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:58 AM

shitmore with shatner

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 04:15 AM

Morning Al
It's nice to get a load of your mind.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:42 AM

What did I miss?

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 07:23 AM

Dave, you missed the start of a sort of truce, broken straight away by Sweeney determined to put the boot in one last time.
I chose not to rise to it (or sink to it).
keith.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 07:38 AM

never mind, you passed the boot.

ships log
stardate 11/8/06

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 07:45 AM

Passed and flushed.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 07:50 AM

I still don't know what nvkqbc blvpty is or what prompted that post!

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 10:24 AM

I think they the Russian secret police - no idea where they came in.

isn't that the way with ceasefires and indeed life itself?

a captains log

no one knows whos responsible

but someone gets the stick and pokes it down

someone else gets the fresh air spray, and domestos

others feel somehow the bathroom has lost an interesting feature - a talking point, an intensely personal contribution, a source of ribald merriment.

one things certain, we all get the urge to be the sort of aresehole that produces another.

Never mind, the fragrance of peace is upon us for the present.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:17 AM

The Gospel According to Saint Keith, Amen.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:24 AM

At the risk of repeating myself...

I still don't know what nvkqbc blvpty is or what prompted that post!

I tried to fit it into your 11:17 post Divis but still can't make head nor tail.

Is it me?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:30 AM

Hi Dave
Last night there was a post appeared in what looked like Russian from the above named, I had no idea what it was so I replied to it as you read. It has now been removed. Pity a lot more weren't removed !

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 11:37 AM

Ahhhhh - So I'm not altogether daft. Oh, hang on, don't answer that...

How was that Divis breaking the 'truce' then Keith?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 12:01 PM

It's something of nothing Dave as you can read above. Reminded me of some sort of homage to the memory of Frankie Howard in "Up Pompey" touch of the Woe Woe is me.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 12:06 PM

Infamy, infamy, they all have it in for me...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:27 PM

Referring to 08 12.02 post.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 02:16 PM

OK - I saw that more as a bit of common or garden personal abuse rather than to do with the issue in question but I can see how you took it as furthering hostilities!

Now, have I got to seperate you two or should I get the headmaster?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 02:35 PM

No offence meant Dave.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:35 PM

Non taken Divis:-)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:30 PM

Separate you two?
There was no "common or garden personal abuse" from me.
But I am glad you took no offence from it Dave.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 05:46 PM

It was a light hearted post and "No offence meant " was regarding you Keith, which I expect you already know. I would never have to say sorry to Dave or make any kind of an apology to him. He understands my position and accepts mu viewpoint. He would be a good man in conflict resolution situations. Regarding you and I. We will never see eye to eye and I accept it.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:41 PM

Oh, bugger. I knew I shouldn't have responded. I can't help it sometimes though. It's just in my make-up.

Everyone, please rewind a few posts to where we were all happy. Lets stop there.

Even more, lets hope I get all 6 numbers on that rollover tomorrow and can arrange a meeting in Hertfordshire followed by one in Armargh:-)

Get over it you guys. I'm off to bed now. See you in t'morn'.

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:47 PM

Sleep will buddy and regards to the bride.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:48 PM

Sorry that meant to read "sleep well"

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul Burke
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 06:16 AM

"lets hope I get all 6 numbers on that rollover"

Why did I read that as "revolver"?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 09:55 AM

Dunno, Paul, but I'll give it my best shot...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 10:45 AM

Seems a very loaded question.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 11:52 AM

You're fired?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:16 PM

It is the calibre of the man which is important.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 08:59 PM

Well mind blaster, tell it to the Guildfor four, the Birmingham 6, all the victems of British torture I knew in the northern counties of Ireland... frankly, if you don't like folks singing about British attrocities, why don't you work very hard to get the UK and US out of Iraq.. one day soon you will have to put up with songs about the wrongs your squaddies committed there as well... in fact I'll write them and sing them.
what the hell, I'm in one of those moods...
Peace, friends,
lor

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 07:36 AM

yeh I get that way on Sundays too. I think its when you switch the radio on and itse religious bastards commandeering the airwaves.

its enough to turn any man into a savage.

make a deal, you sortout the multi nationals buggering the rainforest and I'll deal with the American and British government.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:08 AM

Church admitted they have a big problem with ministers visiting porn sites on net. Group set up to help with addiction.

George Williamson said, "Christian Porn-Help" helps people discover the truth about themselves and pornography and "sexual" addictions. While sex is a wonderful, God-given gift, it can be abused like a drug for a variety of reasons. Today, many ministers find themselves captive to addictive cycles of viewing pornography and masturbation. We want ministers to come forward for help and this site could be helpful for them.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:30 AM

that's all we need on this thread, a religious nut - too hung up to have a wank.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 06 - 08:31 AM

Beats playing the Organ on a Sunday.

Bringing in the sheaths, bringing in the sheaths,
We shall cum rejoicing, bringing in the sheaths,
Bringing in the sheaves, bringing in the sheaths,
We shall cum rejoicing, bringing in the sheaths,

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 15 Aug 06 - 05:57 PM

Divis hi, before you say anything I have not had anything to do with the people on the Website FAIR, as you know that I have been blocked out of their Website for sometime now, which means I cannot say anything to them about things. Guest, billy sands from FAIR contacted me on the tread called something like "sorry, not another NI thread" and I warn you he is a nasty piece of work. I would say he is a very strong Loyalist supporter or a Loyalist himself like Colin from Pontzpass could be too.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:31 AM

Shut up about website FAIR.
No one gives a shit.
Start a separate thread for you enthusiasts and leave us alone.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 07:39 AM

This damn thread is just like all the other IRA threas, all the GUEST posts are made by Divis Sweeney. Get lost all of you.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:15 AM

Guest, Sorry I don't make Guest posts. Shouldn't really be calling you Guest, but will this time I will to save you face. Guest is "threas" running at Doncaster this weekend ?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 01:28 PM

all the GUEST posts are made by Divis Sweeney. Get lost all of you.

If all the Guest posts are made by Divis who just made that one?

Anyhow...

Who is to get lost? All the Guests - In which case why are you here? All the Divis Sweeneys - I happen to know there is only one, or all the rest of us - In which case it will be just you and Divis. I am sure you may think that is cozy but I can assure you that Divis isn't at all like that...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 06:35 AM

And how do you know that Mr. Gnome? Did he tell you? But he tells lies.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 06:08 AM

I know lots about Divis, Guest. We correspond regularly. You won't even let us know your name so how can you expect us to believe anything you say?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 07:58 AM

cogito Ergo Sum

How do I know who I am
Perhaps I'm not, not really

i could be a hologram
a cypher laid upon an unsuspecting world by a superior alien technology
in fact it would explain quite a bit.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 08:47 AM

Nah - couldn't be WLD - no-one has that vivid an imagination...;-)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 01:17 PM

You correspond with him and he tells you all about himself.how could you be wrong then.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 02:19 PM

well obviously we all could be different people from who we say we are

theres an outside chance that dave isn't a gnome, and I don't play drums.

some things we just have to take on trust.

and it will be sad day when that isn't so.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:10 PM

It is still an awful lot more than I know about you, dear Guest. If you cannot see that is it really worth continuing this conversation. Join the 'cat. PM me your real name and address. Let me know who your wife and family are and what you like to do in your spare time. Then I may trust you as much as Divis. In other words, put up or shut up.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: Lyr Add: HOUSE OF ORANGE (Stan Rogers)
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:34 PM

I know I've posted this before, but it's been a long time and this thread is perfect for it, even could lift it above the line:]

[Stan introduced this song on stage, "I don't care what your politics are; when our children are dying in the streets, it's time to put away the guns." He said he'd never write a political song, but he did and we thank him for it. It is fitting that it be the last on the album as it was the last one he wrote.]

THE HOUSE OF ORANGE
(Stan Rogers)
As recorded by Stan Rogers on "From Fresh Water" (1984)

I took back my hand and I showed him the door.
No dollar of mine would I part with this day
For fueling the engine of a bloody cruel war
In my forefathers' home far away,
Who fled the first Famine wearing all that they owned,
Were called 'Navigators', all ragged and torn,
And built the Grand Trunk here, and found a new home
Wherever their children were born.

Their sons have no politics. None can recall
Allegiance from long generations before.
O'this or O'that name just can't matter at all
Or be cause enough for to war;
And meanwhile my babies are safe in their home,
Unlike their pale cousins who cower and cry
While kneecappers nail their poor Dads to the floor
And teach them to hate and to die.

It's those cruel beggars who spurn the fair coin.
The peace for their kids they could take at their will.
Since the day old King Billy prevailed at the Boyne,
They've bombed and they've maimed and they've killed.
Now they cry out for money and wail at the door
But Home Rule or Republic, 'tis all of it shame;
And a curse for us here who want nothing of war.
We're kindred in nothing but name.

All rights and all wrongs have long since blown away,
For causes are ashes where children lie slain.
Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A.
Will tomorrow go murdering again.
But no penny of mine will I add to the fray.
"Remember the Boyne!" they will cry out in vain,
For I've given my heart to the place I was born
And forgiven the whole House of Orange,
King Billy and the whole House of Orange.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 07:51 AM

To the person that calls himself "Dave the gnome", Well said. I don't know why people like Guest seems always horrible to Divis when Divis is not hostile towards anyone? Yes, Divis supports the PIRA and republicans, but he is a reasonable person to talk with. Guest is not even a member, but he accusing Divis of writing all the posts himself. He just comes on here and tells us all to shut up and get lost. This is free speech on here so if Guest does not like what is reading on here then why don't he take himself off to another thread to more of his liking and leave us alone.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: dan darragh
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 12:54 PM

A CHAIRDE,AT PRESANT ON THE FAIR WEB SITE THEY ARE USING MY NAME AND TAN KILLERS TO GET AT EACH OTHER SO IF YOUR HERE TAN KILLER ITS NOT THE REAL ME WRITING THE HALF THEM POSTS.WATCH OUT FOR COLIN HERE AS HE IS ONE OF FAIRS PEOPLE AND IS A DANGEROUS PERSON,ALSO GAVE ALISON AND MICK AND A FEW OTHERS A HARD TIME ON FAIRS WEB SITE SOFUCK HIM,IN CHICAGO FOR THE HUNGER STRIKE COMMEMERATIONS,TIOCFAIDH AR LA,GO RAIBH MILE MO AGAT

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 02:08 PM

Ever get the feeling this is getting too crazy?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 03:58 PM

The Dan Darraghs are defending themselves on the Website FAIR, but their name is being used by the people behind FAIR to say things that are untrue about them. The Dan Darraghs are republicans, but they are not anti protestant like the Website FAIR that claims them to be. From my experience of asking questions to the Dan Darraghs about Irish issues is that the Dan Darraghs are respectful people, who does not abuse the public for asking simple questions whatever the side of the fence the public comes from or what country they come from either. They do listen and answer your questions without any hostility towards anyone. The Website FAIR should stop using Dan's name on their Website FAIR and leave them alone.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: dan darragh
Date: 20 Aug 06 - 09:44 PM

THANKS ALISON THAT IS ALL WE DO IS ANSWER QUESTIONS ON A FAIR AN TRUTHFUL MANNER,WE DO NOT HIDE WHO OR WHAT WE ARE AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE UP FRONT FOR IF THE PEOPLE DONT LIKE US THEN ITS THERE PROBLEM.AS FOR THE GROUP CALLED F.A.I.R. WE OUT SMARTED THEM EVERYTIME ON THERE WEB SITE AND NOW SOMETIMES THEY WRITE IN USING OR NAME TO MAKE PEOPLE TURN AGAINST US BUT IT WILL NOT WORK,WE ARE THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE NOT THE OPPRESSORS,TIOCFAIDH AR LA............FEEL FREE TO CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE www.dandarraghrfb.net.tf

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 06:51 AM

Dan Darragh, Thanks for your reply on here, but I hope you know that the people from FAIR are reading our posts on here even if they have not left any comments on here either. The FAIR people sometimes do to come here and leave a unfriendly message, but they won't be challenged by anyone, which means they don't reply to anyone that replies to their messages. I did feel at one time I would have liked to put your Website link on here for people to come and visit to you, but I would of asked first. I was a bit concerned that Loyalists or FAIR people would write hate messages on your Website, which I did not want to encourage as you do have a very nice Website and guestbook for people to visit. Kind Regards.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 08:07 AM

Please stop treating this site as an annexe to another one.
At least start your own little thread.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 01:04 PM

I see this is STILL dragging on, despite me being away for a couple of weeks

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 01:55 PM

I don't think it is really still here, Paul. It is a figleaf of your imagination.

Not wanting to do multiple posts but waiting for 3C...

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 03:24 PM

*G*

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 04:45 PM

3oo ??

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 06 - 04:49 PM

I THINK that means you win a prize, doesnt it? *G*

Sadly, its a week in a caravan with Ian Paisley...

Hmmm.....I'm hoping there isnt a 2nd Prize, for posting 301...that might mean 2 weeks in a caravan with Paisley...

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 08:12 PM

Third prize a sensible reply from that anti Irish guy on this site from England.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Den
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 11:29 PM

Good God, I've been away for a while, in Ireland incidently and returning to the site I find this excuse for a thread. Mindblaster you apparently are in a quandry, how do you stand and shit straight(apologies to others for language). Go educate yourself. If it weren't for Irish and Scottish songs I'm sure your repertoire would be limited.

So you take personal offense with Irish rebel songs...tough that's part of the history of our country. You have a choice when you hear them, let your legs do the thinking.

And Leadfingers said, "Before the IRA Hi Jacked the Civil Rights movement and re vitalised The Troubles in 1969,"

I'd like to ask Leadfingers to explain the IRA's role in 1969 in relation to the "troubles" and while your at it maybe you could explain to everyone the British Army 1st Parashoot Regiment's effect on the civil rights movement (in particular), and the British Government's influence on what became known as the troubles after January 30th 1972 (in relation to the IRA) and what really started the troubles as we knew them.

I haven't had a chance to go right through this thread. I skimmed it really and I see that it seems to have opened the doors to new posters. Hopefully they can join in discussion without all the caps, having reviewed what they have written before they post. I welcome new posters with opposing views to those that I and others hold and I sincerely hope we can debate this and other issues with respect in future.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: dan darragh
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 01:51 PM

KEEP FAIR OFF THIS SITE THEY ARE SHIT STIRRING SCUM

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 01:57 PM

Who's FAIR ?

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: GUEST,Alison
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:09 PM

Guest, The Website FAIR is a cover Website for Loyalists.

Subject: RE: Folkies supporting IRA
From: Alison M
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:16 PM

Rhe Website FAIR http://www.victims.org.uk/guestbook.html