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African- American folksong by Odum 1911

DigiTrad:
CARELESS LOVE
THYME IT IS A PRECIOUS THING


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Let No Man Steal Your Time / Thyme (92)
(origins) Lyr Add: Careless Love (various versions) (39)
Origins: Bunch of Thyme (15)
Loveless/Careless Love- WC Handy (31)
Lyr Req: Careless Love (Dr John) (2)
Lyr Req: Let No Man Steal Your Thyme (June Tabor) (12)
Lyr Req: Now my apron strings don't tie (12)
Lyr Req: Careless Love (Bessie Smith version) (35)
Help: Careless Love / Bunch of Thyme (8)
Tune Req: Thyme It Is a Precious Thing (3)


GUEST,Richie 24 Nov 06 - 06:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Richie 24 Nov 06 - 10:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Nov 06 - 11:58 PM
GUEST,thurg 25 Nov 06 - 12:08 AM
GUEST,Richie 25 Nov 06 - 12:13 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Nov 06 - 03:02 PM
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Subject: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 06:43 PM

I had a bit of a laugh at this mondegreen. It's easy to spot now but at the time they didn't know. It's a good version.

What song is it? Who's Kelly anyway?

THE JOURNAL OF AMERICAN FOLK-LORE
Vol. XXIV. —JULY-SEPTEMBER, 1911— No. XCIII
FOLK-SONG AND FOLK-POETRY AS FOUND IN THE SECULAR SONGS OF THE SOUTHERN NEGROES
BY HOWARD W. ODUM

42. kelly's love
In "Kelly's Love" the note of disappointed love is sounded:

| : Love, Kelly's love, : | (three times)
You broke de heart o' many a girl,
You never break dis heart o' mine.

| : When I wo' my aprons low, : | (three times)
Couldn't keep you from my do'.

| : Now I weahs my aprons high, : | (three times)
Sca'cely ever see you passin' by.

| : Now I weahs my aprons to my chin, : | (three times)
You pass my do', but can't come in.

| : See what Kelly's love have done. : | (three times)
See what Kelly's love have done.

: If I had listened to what my mamma said, : | (three times)
I would a been at home in mamma's bed.


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 08:26 PM

"Kelly's Love" in Odum 1911 is the earliest published record of "Careless Love" (see Fuld). Perrow found it, but as "Careless Love," collected from Mississippi, country Whites, MS of R. J. Slay, 1909. He published words in JAF, 1915, vol. 28, pp. 129-190, part 8, Songs of Love, No. 3.
The first formal publication was as "Loveless Love," 1921, words and music attributed to W. C. Handy.

I have posted Perrow's "Careless Love" (1909), from Whites, to thread 58247, which has several versions. Careless Love

Odum's comment bears repeating-
"One may note, for instance, the striking similarity between the mountain song-
"She broke the heart of many poor fellows
But she won't break this of mine,"-

and the Negro song, "Kelly's Love," the chorus of which is,
"You broke de heart o' many a girl,
But you never will break dis heart o' mine."
(Odum, H. W., 1911, JAF, Sept. 1911. no. XCIII, Folk-Song and Folk-Poetry as Found in the Secular Songs of the Southern Negroes, p. 2.

As Fuld comments, whether "Kelly's Love" or "Careless Love" came first is not known; which name is or is not correct is not known.

There is no proof yet of a 'mondegreen.'

Similarly, whether the song originated with Whites or Blacks is unknown.


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 10:19 PM

Q,

Thanks!

I still think "Kelly's Love" is misheard for "Careless Love" but hey-it's only my opinion. I guess it's just 'cause: it makes sense.

I appreciate your detailed research.

Richie


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 11:58 PM

My remark about 'Kelly' is tongue in cheek; I think Fuld was bending over backward to put Kelly on an equal footing in his little write-up.
I want to re-read what Handy said about it.

The theme is old; "To sigh yet feel no pain... and ending up with

To think all other charms divine,
But those we have just won;
This is love, careless love
Such as kindleth hearts that rove."
See thread 81179, where I quoted part of this song from Thomas Moore, c. 1800, and which was in 19th c. American sheet music. Is it a precursor?? Dunno.

81179: Moore song posted
50989: Kelly's Love posted
58163: Careless Love 1925
(Bessie Smith)
58247: Careless Love various


I have not found "Loveless Love" by Handy; only versions by singers claiming to have his lyrics.


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: GUEST,thurg
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:08 AM

" have not found "Loveless Love" by Handy; only versions by singers claiming to have his lyrics."

I wouldn't doubt that claim; "Loveless Love" was in a collection of Handy songs published in the late '60's or early '70's. Can't remember the title; his name was probably in it. I had a copy, and probably still do somewhere within five thousand miles.


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 12:13 AM

As I remember Handy claimed to have written Careless Love, then recanted saying it was a folk song.

I think "Loveless Love" was published around 1920.

I have a bunch of Handy's sheet music somewhere, but I don't remember seeing that.

Richie


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Subject: RE: African- American folksong by Odum 1911
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 03:02 PM

Several versions of "Loveless Love" by various singers attributing to Handy- but they are all different.
Will the real Handy "Loveless Love" float to the top?


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