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BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:36 PM It is not even clear that the rifle in the video is actually fired. You claimed to be able to see recoil. I could not and there is certainly no muzzle flash which should be prominent in that semi darkness. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jun 10 - 02:27 PM Carol, you actually said,"And you can quite clearly see the guy in the last video I posted firing his gun. You can see the recoil. And the passenger in question did end up dead, with several bullets in his chest and head." The soldier in the video is seen firing a rifle. The video captions say the victim is killed by four shots from the rifle. Emmas report said no one was killed with a rifle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 13 Jun 10 - 12:54 PM Carol, do you withdraw the claim that your video clip showed four rifle shots used to murder someone on the deck? Where did I make this claim? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Emma B Date: 13 Jun 10 - 12:42 PM "The one person not killed by 9mm had a small container of lead shot in his temple not recognised as coming from a firearm. Slingshot perhaps? " NO Keith - please read the autopsy report I quoted Cegdet Kiliclar, 38 the photographer 'armed' only with his camera "One gunshot wound: middle of forehead" Dr Haluk Ince, the chairman of the council of forensic medicine in Istanbul, said that in only one case was there a single bullet wound, to the forehead from a distant shot, while every other victim suffered multiple wounds. He added that all but one of the bullets retrieved from the bodies came from 9mm rounds. Of the other round, he said: "It was the first time we have seen this kind of material used in FIREARMS. It was just a container including many types of pellets usually used in shotguns. It penetrated the head region in the temple and we found it intact in the brain." There are a variety of riot control 'non-lethal' weapons and rounds they can fire at crowds, although these are generally considered to be "less-lethal" rounds anything fired from a gun has the potential to be deadly if used contrary to recommended usage These rounds are fired from a 40-mm gun -- either a single-shot launcher (for greater accuracy) or a multi-launcher that can have five or six rounds loaded at once. The guns are similar to military grenade launchers |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Jim Carroll Date: 13 Jun 10 - 12:17 PM Talking of non-responses; anti Semitism continues to be the red-herring of this thread. There has been no evidence whatever of anti-Semitism on this thread - if this is not true, please point out the examples. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Jun 10 - 12:09 PM McGrath, "I have always understood that it is not very easy to get a photograph of a bullet in flight. " Is that really what you understood me to mean about evidence, rather than people taking cover, injured people, bullet strike marks, mentions on the live feed, etc.? We have that scene of blood that I acknowledge preceded the landings. We have no one killed by a rifle bullet. Only by the short range 9mm pistol rounds. Carol, do you withdraw the claim that your video clip showed four rifle shots used to murder someone on the deck? The one person not killed by 9mm had a small container of lead shot in his temple not recognised as coming from a firearm. Slingshot perhaps? |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Emma B Date: 13 Jun 10 - 11:25 AM Claiming someone is anti-semitic, in the purely racist way that it was coined, when they are critical of the actions of the government of Israel (as are many Jewish people both wirhin the state and internationally) is also a misuse of the term Continual and deliberate use of it incorrectly may, in itself, be proof of an attempt to discredit such critics and their protests by the user. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 13 Jun 10 - 11:13 AM "PS. Nobody has yet responded to my comment that antisemitism applies to hating Arabs just as much as to hating Jews. " This topic was covered at the Mudcat several years ago at other blame Israel fests. As EmmaB correctly poits out the term anti-Semite (and its varions) was coined specifically and solely to apply to Jews, and is attributed to William Marr (spellings differ). To claim not to be anti-Semitic because one does not have animus towards Palestineans or other Semites, is a misuse of the term. Continual and deliberate use of it incorrectly may, in itself, be proof of anti-Semitism by the user. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 11:00 AM ""Antisemitism is a word with a history behind, that cannot be disentangled from anti-Judaism. It was born as another way, a milder way, of saying anti-Judaism."" Get an education Roberto. Jews and Arabs are both Semites. Racial hatred of either is Antisemitism. I know you would prefer that it were otherwise, but it ISN'T. LIVE WITH IT! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Emma B Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:48 AM Wilhelm Mahr (1819-1904) could be termed the father of 'modern' antisemitism When he became embittered about the failure of the 1848-49 German Revolution to democratize Germany, and about his own rapidly declining political fortunes, he turned his venom against the Jews "Marr and others employed the word antisemitism in the largely secular anti-Jewish political campaigns that became widespread in Europe around the turn of the century. The word derived from an 18th-century analysis of languages that differentiated between those with so-called "Aryan" roots and those with so-called "Semitic" ones. This distinction led, in turn, to the assumption--a false one--that there were corresponding racial groups. Within this framework, Jews became "Semites," and that designation paved the way for Marr's new vocabulary. He could have used the conventional German term Judenhass to refer to his hatred of Jews, but that way of speaking carried religious connotations that Marr wanted to de-emphasize in favour of racial ones" Eventually, it became a way of speaking about all the forms of hostility toward Jews throughout history. From the Jewish Virtual Library There was nothing 'mild' about the use of the term "For if Jews were found wanting religiously, it was possible for them to convert. If their business practices or political views were somehow inappropriate, changed behavior could, in principle, correct their shortcomings. But antisemites in the line that ran from Marr to Hitler believed that Jews were a menace no matter what they did" ibid above vis The Holocaust Project |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Roberto Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM Don(Wyziwyg)T writes: "Nobody has yet responded to my comment that antisemitism applies to hating Arabs just as much as to hating Jews." Antisemitism is a word with a history behind, that cannot be disentangled from anti-Judaism. It was born as another way, a milder way, of saying anti-Judaism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:38 AM ""Despite the fact international coverage of the event has become a bit more balanced, the extremist nature of the organizers of the flotilla, as well as of some of the passengers on board, remains overlooked in many circles."" Miriam needs to take a brief reality check. Those fanatics were so extreme in their views that they boarded the ship without effective weapons, So extreme that they took on fully armed troops with a few iron bars and galley knives, So extreme that, when they captured handguns, they did not use them, and so extreme that not one soldier was seriously injured, let alone killed, as were nine of these extremist fanatics. I take it that Miriam believes that political opposition is a crime which should be punishable by death, unless committed by Israeli troops, in which case murder magically transmogrifies into justifiable self defence. Shheeesh! Don T. PS. Nobody has yet responded to my comment that antisemitism applies to hating Arabs just as much as to hating Jews. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:13 AM "More American Jewish voices aren't heard in the US, not because they aren't speaking out with everything they've got, but because the complicit corporate media in the US doesn't ever cover it when they do." Following up the prior vid. where a young Jewish Canadian woman describes a rising tide of objection to Israel's actions in Gaza among Canadian Jewish youth, this opinion piece (and straying off the specific topic of the flotilla again here) suggests a similar trend among American Jewish youth: Israel In Danger of Losing America's Jewish Youth If such feeling exists and indeed is growing specifically among Western Jewish youth, however much corporate media may strive to silence dissenting Jewish voices, it can't do so indefinitely. One can only wonder where that will leave Israel in ten or more years.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:23 AM More American Jewish voices aren't heard in the US, not because they aren't speaking out with everything they've got, but because the complicit corporate media in the US doesn't ever cover it when they do. There has been no news coverage in the country, for instance, of the young woman who was shot in the face with a tear gas canister by Israeli border police and lost her eye because of it. She was protesting the massacre on the flotilla when this happened. But no mention of it here in this country. The complicit corporate media will never allow American Jews who criticize Israel to be heard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:00 AM Israeli and Canadian Jewish women protest Gaza massacre in Canada: "We are Jewish Women: Not in Our Name" One of the points I found most interesting on this video, is where a young woman at the end of the video describes a rising tide of dissent among Canadian Jewish youth, and frustration among Jewish youth at the Canadian govt's unquestioning support for Israel. If what she has to say is genuinely representative of the feelings of Canadian Jewish youth, I imagine Canada won't be alone in such a sea change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:27 AM "I think that if American Jews were allowed to criticize Israel on the media, it would open the door to meaningful dialogue." Aye, it seems pressing that dissenting Jewish voices, be they American, Israeli or European, need to be be clearly heard in the media. Not only so that the public at large can hear that Jewish people and the state of Israel are not one unified homogeneous entity as they can be cast, but also that anti-Semitism rising in the wake of the publicity over Israel's actions, may be countered. German Jews sending aid ship to Gaza Strip |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:52 PM LOL! Looks like the Israelis staged some of the fighting scenes, too. In particular, pay attention to the walking through iron parts... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v95avNGWvcA |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:26 PM Egypt still enforcing the blockade, blocking a new flotilla, despite signing an agreement to allow it through |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:18 PM More flotilla members complaining of their bank cards being used by Israelis after they were confiscated. Along with complaints of the theft of almost all of their other personal belongings... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyA5kYwt40 |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Stringsinger Date: 12 Jun 10 - 02:23 PM The idea that something is "complex" is a word today used as a smokescreen. Obama has used it in regard to the BP crimes in the Gulf and in the defense of Wall Street. Israel thought it could get away with its public relations excusing it for war crimes. That's why they attacked an innocent vessel. As to the Turkish bit, it wasn't about Turkey although Israel sought to make it that way. That is a complete misrepresentation. If America's only friend in the Middle-East is Israel, then as a country we are in big trouble. I think that if American Jews were allowed to criticize Israel on the media, it would open the door to meaningful dialogue. Israel and the US today have a news blackout on this issue and that includes G.E.'s MSNBC. Again, turn over the rock and witness the roaches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 07:57 AM I think I could do with a crash course in Zionism, as I'm far less savvy about some of the pertinent issues than many of the posters here. I've been following most of the links and stories, but one of the things I keep encountering is the quiet (as in not generally reported) but persistent voice of religious Orthodox Jews who feel Judaism has been usurped by what they see as an irreligious political Zionist movement. Jewish Rabbis Condemn Israeli Massacre of Free Gaza Flotilla |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:55 AM Alex Harrison witness: They did not treat any of us peacefully and when they say that, it's an absolute lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:41 AM Bobad - that video is 3 years old. Do you have anything current? Bobad - Gaza was blitzed during December 2008 and January 2009. Remember? It was on the news quite a lot. Since then, Gazans have been denied materials to rebuild and denied essential supplies. The west Bank hasn't been through a similar assault. Are you going to try to convince us that Gaza and the west bank are on a par in terms of the standard of living? It is fact that is easily established by reading through the numerous links on this thread, that Gaza is in a considerably worse state than the west bank. The west bank has access to bulding materials, medicine and food in a way that Gaza simply hasn't. The figure for the occupied territories as a whole is an average figure. That Average figure is already very low. If you examine your page more carefully you find that GDP per capita in occupied territories is a 5th of what it is in Egypt. It follows that Gaza is significatly worse off again. Bobad - ALL your arguments and ALL your evidence havebeen refuted successfully so far. And you have provided a lot. Even if you were to post something current and relevant now, your overall position has been so discredited that you couldn't be taken seriously. This is a clear case of a man who is using whatever evidence he can, whether relevant or not, to support his prejudices rather than trying to determine the truth based on what can be observed to be true. Bobad, that last paragraph was about you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Penny S. Date: 12 Jun 10 - 05:32 AM Yesterday I went to buy carrots. The only carrots not in too large bags for me came from Israel. I bought no carrots. So sue me, Israel. Penny |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:54 AM More passenger testimony... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gp8ECrDQLg&feature=related |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:22 AM http://www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam_in_action/emergencies/gaza_crisis.html "One year since the Israeli military offensive, codenamed Operation Cast Lead, the Gaza Strip remains in a protracted crisis. Of the 1.5 million people in Gaza, 80% depend on humanitarian aid. This was already the case before the 22-day war that began on 27 December 2008. But today, the consequences of that war still overwhelm the coastal strip, as badly-needed reconstruction materials remain banned from entering Gaza." |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:50 AM This is only a partial list of banned items. There are many more. 4. What are some of the items Israel has prohibited from entering Gaza? * sage * cardamom * cumin * coriander * ginger * jam * halva * vinegar * nutmeg * chocolate * fruit preserves * seeds and nuts * biscuits and sweets * potato chips * gas for soft drinks * dried fruit * fresh meat * plaster * tar * wood for construction * cement * iron * glucose * industrial salt * plastic/glass/metal containers * industrial margarine * tarpaulin sheets for huts * fabric (for clothing) * flavor and smell enhancers * fishing rods * various fishing nets * buoys * ropes for fishing * nylon nets for greenhouses * hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries * spare parts for tractors * dairies for cowsheds * irrigation pipe systems * ropes to tie greenhouses * planters for saplings * heaters for chicken farms * musical instruments * size A4 paper * writing implements * notebooks * newspapers * toys * razors * sewing machines and spare parts * heaters * horses * donkeys * goats * cattle * chicks [13] http://imeu.net/news/article0019136.shtml You really are one of the most callous and unfeeling people I have ever encountered. I bet you don't even see Palestinians as human beings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:47 AM bobad, the situation in Gaza is being grossly misrepresented in your link. For one thing, most Gazans can't afford to eat at posh restaurants or stay in posh resorts. This is because they can't get jobs because the Israeli terrorists have destroyed their economy. And that video was made before the blockade was tightened to the extent it is now. The last time Mahmood Abbas (who is in that video) was in Gaza was before Hamas was elected. You're spreading lies and propaganda. Here's the facts... ___________ The amount of goods allowed into Gaza by Israel falls far short of the minimum required to avoid malnutrition, poverty, and prevent or treat a variety of illnesses. According to Amnesty International's recently-released annual report, the siege has resulted in "mass unemployment, extreme poverty, food insecurity and food price rises caused by shortages." Consider the following statistics: * 61 percent of households face food insecurity, defined as inadequate physical, social or economic access to food, and rely on assistance from aid agencies. An additional 16.2 percent are considered vulnerable to food insecurity. [2] * 65 percent of the food insecure are children under the age of 18. [3] * Unemployment is at 40 percent [4] * 10 percent of children under five are stunted (low height for age, usually attributed to a chronic lack of protein and micronutrients, including iron and essential vitamins), a steadily increasing trend over recent years, according to UNICEF. [5] * More than 10 percent of children are chronically malnourished, according to the World Health Organization, a significant increase since siege began. * The number of children under five suffering from acute malnutrition nearly doubled between 2006 and 2008 from 1.4 to 2.4 percent, according to UNICEF. * 65 percent of children aged 9-12 months, and 35 percent of pregnant women are anemic. [6] * According to a recent poverty survey conducted by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, the number of Palestinian refugees completely unable to secure access to food and lacking the means to purchase even the most basic items, such as soap, school stationery and safe drinking water ('abject poverty') has tripled since the imposition of the blockade in June 2007 * A majority of Gazans experience rolling blackouts of up to 12 hours a day, every day as a result of a chronic shortfall in electricity production resulting from the blockade [7] * Due to insufficient wastewater treatment capacity, Gaza's water authorities release 60-80 million liters a day of raw and partially treated sewage into the Mediterranean Sea, in order to avoid sewage flooding residential areas. * Water supply for domestic use is insufficient, raising hygiene and health concerns. In order to pump water to households, the water wells must receive electricity in synchronization with electricity supply to the same households. Almost all the households receive water for only 5-7 hours a day. 3. Does the blockade prevent the functioning of Gaza's economy? Yes. Export of Palestinian goods, the import of raw materials and access to Gaza's natural resources have been severely restricted. For example: * Roughly 118 truckloads of strawberries and cut flowers exports were permitted to leave Gaza between December 10, 2009 and May 2010. Before the blockade, an average of 70 truckloads a day left Gaza during strawberry season. [8] * Since January 2009, the Israeli navy has illegally restricted Palestinian fishermen's access to three nautical miles offshore, yet in practice Israel often limits fishermen to only two nautical miles, reducing their catch by 47 percent. [9] * 46 percent of Gaza's agricultural land is inaccessible or out of production either due to destruction of lands caused by Israeli military attacks or by its "security buffer zone." [10] * Roughly 90 percent of Gaza's factories are closed or are functioning at less than 10 percent capacity because of the inability to obtain raw materials and the inability to export finished products [11]. * The Israeli human rights organization Gisha provides the following example of how the blockade aims to prevent economic development: "Israel permits Gaza residents to receive small packets of margarine, considered a consumption item. Israel bans, however, the transfer of large buckets of margarine, because the buckets are designed for industrial use, rather than home consumption, meaning that they could be used to allow a local factory to produce biscuits - and thus engage in economic activity. Similarly, requests to permit empty cans into Gaza - intended for the preservation and marketing of Gaza-produced tomato paste - have been refused, but requests to transfer prepared, Israeli-made tomato paste are permitted." [12] |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:24 PM h BTW ... "Egypt is still participating in the blockade" ... from what I understand as of June 8th Egypt has lifted the blockade ... temporarily at least. That's the spin that's being put out there, but it's only partially true. They're still not allowing goods to go in, and they're only allowing a few people to go out. For the most part, the blockade is still being enforced by Egypt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM "So the figures are heavily moderated by the quality of life in the rest of the occupied palestinian territories." I suppose you can provide some data for that claim. In case you missed it earlier here is a link I provided that shows the hardships which are being endured by the Palestinians in Gaza http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001114.html Oh and don't miss the videos, they will make your mouth water |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM oh BTW ... "Egypt is still participating in the blockade" ... from what I understand as of June 8th Egypt has lifted the blockade ... temporarily at least. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:16 PM They won't be held to account. As long as they're willing to commit those kinds of atrocities at the behest of Israel, they will be protected by both Israel and the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:13 PM damn right they do. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:10 PM That is very sad news. And Egypt needs to be held to account alongside Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:02 PM Actually, that's no longer true. Egyptian forces blew a few of them up inside the tunnels. The problem with the tunnels is that the goods that come through there are too expensive for most Gazans to be able to afford, since most Gazans are unemployed and goods coming through the tunnels are much more expensive than regular goods would be because they are black market items. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:58 PM Bobad, You're late. see my post of: - 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Number 6. That is precisely why there have also been activists protesting on the egyptian side, and why there have been smugglers breaking the Egyptian Blockade. In fact, as I have stated, 75% of Gaza's essential goods are smuggled in from Egypt. (Link already provided by me near the start of the thread). Egypt hasn't murdered any of them yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:56 PM Egypt is still participating in the blockade, at the command of the Egyptian He's letting a few people out, but that's about it. And my own opinion is that the only reason he's even doing that much is to provide people like you with more excuses to perpetuate the illegal and utterly immoral blockade. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:52 PM Entry 110 - Occupied Palestinian Territories |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Oh Bobad ... yer about as misleading as Crow Sister ... Geeezuz H. But until June 8th Egypt was participating in the blockade. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM Wait - its included under the all inclusive umbrella of Palestinian Occupied Territories. So the figures are heavily moderated by the quality of life in the rest of the occupied palestinian territories. That would be handy for somebody trying to give a misleading impression of the figures, but unhelpful for someone trying to determine quality of life in Gaza specifically. I wonder where Gaza would come in the table if it were presented in isolation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:41 PM That's probably because Gaza is not a country. Israel has made sure of that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:39 PM Bobad, PS - I Just followed your link ... Guess what ... on the page you provided is a list of countries ... AND GAZA ISN''T ON IT. So much for that evidence! You are a waste of time and effort, and your new found puppy No.6 needs to get his nose out of your ass and smell the coffee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:33 PM Because they live in the world's biggest (open air) prison. The majority of them are dependent on foreign aid and food assistance to live (and they would rather be allowed to take care of themselves), because the blockade has completely crushed their economy. Because many of them are still living in tents since the massacre that Israel committed in Gaza in the winter of '08/'09 (that's more than a year after the massacre). Because all of their civil infrastructure was destroyed by Israel so they don't have the ability to process their raw sewage, and they have to dump it into the sea, and doing that is killing all of the fish (what's left of them) in the tiny little patch of water that they can fish in without getting shot by the Israeli terrorists. Because their ability to generate electricity was severely crippled by the Israeli terrorists and they have to rely on generators to get electricity a lot of the time and the generators are killing people. Because the Israeli terrorists don't allow in a lot of life-saving medicines and people are dying because of it. And most Gazans aren't allowed to leave Gaza to get needed medical treatment elsewhere, and people are dying because of it. Because Israel doesn't allow them to have incubators and babies are dying because of it. Because while they're not starving to death, they are severely malnourished. Because children aren't allowed to have paper, pencils, crayons, school books and other things they need to get a good education so they can become self-sufficient adults. Because the Israeli terrorists are treating them like they are not human beings, and nobody deserves to be treated that way. Really, you guys. You both sound like two of the most uncaring, and callous people I've ever encountered. Let the eat cake! Eh! |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:29 PM 1. Aid goes to all these countries. 2. Being better off than the poorest in these counries is not hard. I've been to about half of them and seen how horrendous the poverty is. To say that Gaza is better off than them is not a claim to fame for Gaza. 3. The difference between Gaza and the countries you have listed is that Aid is not allowed in to Gaza in sufficient quantities. There are no restrictions on Building materials, toys, meat, school books etc etc in the countries you have listed The UN also reports that 75% of essential goods goin in to Gaza are smuggled from egypt. (link provided earlier in thread) So the problem in Gaza is the Blockade. The solution to the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is for the blockade to be challenged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: number 6 Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:18 PM Good question Bobad. Can anyone provide an answer to this? biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: bobad Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:15 PM According to the UN Human Development Index the people of Gaza live better off than people in Indonesia, India, Viet Nam, South Africa, Morocco, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Kenya, Sudan, Tanzania, Nigeria and Egypt. If there is no mass starvation, then why the aid flotillas? Why not send them to Egypt? http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 10:00 PM Typo "Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a two dimesnional entity in three dimensonal terms - meaningless." Should have read: "Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a three dimesnional entity in two dimensonal terms - meaningless." I hope the tone of the post was clear enough for that to be plain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: Lox Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:05 PM BB posts opinions on some subjects that I find as far from my way of looking at the world as it is possible to get. But he has also made some fundamentally important points in the past that I have not only agreed with, but that I have been moved by and that have changed my outlook in fundamental ways. In addition, even in this thread, he has clearly shown himself to be a man of character and fairness. Calling him a nutter is akin to describing a two dimesnional entity in three dimensonal terms - meaningless. If it wasn't for the emptiness of such a comment it might be viewed as an unfair slur. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: CarolC Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:50 PM I have received an email from the author of the piece about the Pixies being put on Canada's list of terrorist organizations. He said he was satirizing "the Canadian government's slavish devotion to Israel". I am very relieved. I would be amused if I didn't find the situation he's satirizing so tragic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:49 PM An Israeli law seeking to outlaw a boycott would probably greatly assist people trying to impose an anti-apartheid style boycott on Israel. |
