Total BS: Hijacked words.

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:18 PM

Even though at times I thoroughly enjoy calling someone else a "jerk" I'd rather be called a "bitch" than a "jerk". A "bitch" still retains some level of intelligence whereas a "jerk" doesn't. I don't mind acting "bitchy" but I don't want to act "like a jerk".
My gay friends call women they don't like "cows". I don't like that term at all. Of course, I've been called "moron" in another thread but that's another story! ;-)

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: mousethief
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:11 PM

I've heard that the semi-political group Wankers Are Normal Kids (WANK) is opposed to the word "Jerk" but I've never met anybody from that group (at least that I was aware of) to actually ask them face-to-face.

Alex

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:10 PM

I'm pretty sure the gay use of 'bitch' is sorta the same as the use of 'pillow biter'... it implies someone who can be or is easily used and discarded...

At least that's the sence I've had when I've heard my gay chummers use it...

Besides, bitch is such a great word to say... why wouldn't you want to use it?

:-)

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 01 - 02:06 PM

Yes, I am unclear on the gay uses of bitch, which don't seem to make semantic sense... if that makes sense! Also, nowadays, bastardry is really moot, isn't it? I mean, outside of royalty? Does anyone else have a stake in whether you were conceived in wedlock or not? I know a lot of never-married parents... I don't consider their kids bastards, unless they are being masculine jerks.

I like the word Jerk. Wanna bet somebody objects to that one too?

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: mousethief
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:51 PM

I don't see that either is objectively more offensive. Clearly "bitch" is more offensive if you're a woman and "bastard" is more offensive if you're a man. Apart from the original meanings, both have come to mean roughly "annoying person whom I greatly dislike of the [male/female] gender" (gender depending on the term, of course).

I've heard gay men call other gay men "bitch" -- not being polite either; it was a term of great opprobrium. So perhaps that term will eventually even lose its gender-specificity.

Alex

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: sophocleese
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:45 PM

Dave the Gnome you may not be commenting on the ads themselves but you are commenting on those who object to them. You are misapplying their objection to another medium in an attempt to ridicule it.

Use the word bitch if you want to in a song but don't expect every person who hears it to like it.

Both ads are offensive in their own way and I wouldn't put them up in any public place. I'm not sure whether bitch or bastard is more offensive. We'd either have to compare "All men are bastards" to "All women are bitches" or, "Ditch the bitch" to "Dump the bastard" to find out.

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:44 PM

I don't have a problem with woman. I am one. It seems anymore, though, that some people have a problem with everything that isn't "woman." Of course, "I am woman hear me roar" made the word a little hokey...

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:37 PM

I never really cared for being called "gal". I don't know why. When I got in trouble my mom would say, "Now see here, Lady Jane."
I have no idea what the problem with "woman" is. Maybe because we had to rely on the word "man" to form the word "woman"? You know how some "gals" hate relying on guys for anything....

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:29 PM

Gal is okay... I think for me it has some negative childhood connotations, because when I had done something wrong, my mother would say, "you better watch it, little gal." Or "young lady." Those expressions make me feel like I'm in trouble! ;-)

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:29 PM

I've never understood the American dislike for the word Woman. When I refer to my female undergraduates as women, I am told I make them uncomfortable (my take is, you women better get used to being women!) - it seems as if a "woman" is BY DEFINITION sexual, as if I called them Walking Vulvas or something. I don't get it. I also object to insults that aren't on point - that is, if a woman is being a jerk, calling her a bitch just means she's being a jerk AND a woman, and the fact that she's a woman is irrelevant, to me. I would use Bitch for specifically FEMALE jerk-ness. So in this context (Ditch Her), it is a propos and the mot juste. And some things in English, too...

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: jeffp
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:23 PM

I've also seen bitch claimed to be an acronym for Babe In Total Charge of Herself.

jeffp

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: mousethief
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:10 PM

She didn't even like the word "gal" which I consider the exact parallel of "guy".

I'll call somebody whatever they like to be called, within reason.

I've seen a bumper sticker that says approximately, "You call me a bitch like that's something bad."

Alex

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:07 PM

I'm a girl. Feel free to call me a girl. Not all women are girls, though, and some object to being called such. Bully for them. I'm definitely not a dame, although sometimes I am a bitch and will freely admit to it. Most of the time, though, I'm a girl. And once in awhile, I actually get accused of being a lady. :-)

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: mousethief
Date: 15 May 01 - 01:03 PM

I was once told it was okay to call men "Guys" but it was not okay to use any other noun except "women" for women. One begins to wonder exactly what is being communicated by such extremism.

Alex

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 01 - 12:59 PM

I did a gig at a place called THE BLACK BITCH in Linlithgow Scotland. I thought the name was "quaint" but I also knew it was being used in its' proper sense. We Americans do have a way with words dont we?

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 01 - 12:25 PM

I think perhaps within the context of divorce, those are fightin' words, and only serve to cause more pain and anger where there is probably enough already. Both expressions bash both genders, and I probably wouldn't do business with those people.

However, in songwriting, it's a whole different ball game. It depends on what you're trying to get across. What's the story you're trying to tell?

Write away, Mr. Gnome!

Subject: RE: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 May 01 - 12:14 PM

I don't let people tell me what words I can and cannot use... I prefer to think for myself!

Subject: Total BS: Hijacked words.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 01 - 11:56 AM

I just read something I find quite amusing. It probably links to the 'Lyric drift' discussion we had in that there are some words we should no longer use. Anyhow. general drift is a firm of solicitors have put ads in gents and ladies loo's/washrooms/bogs(insert your own expresion.) They are selling their expertise in divorce litigation. The ones in the gents say "Ditch the bitch" and the ones in the ladies say "All men are bastards". A spokesperson for a womens rights group has said "We object to both these adverts, but the use of the word 'bitch' has more negative connotations than 'bastard'."

Now I am not commenting on the ads, or the firm who placed them or the rights and wrongs but am I alone in thinking we now have another word we cannot use in songs?

Heaven help anyone who feels the need to sing a fox hunting song containing the line 'My gay black bitch had Reynard by the head' I think I'll have to go and write one;-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome