BS: Harry Potter: Book 6 (Half-Blood Prince)

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jul 05 - 06:04 PM

Apparently this is the first time a novel has been simultaneously published in ordinary print along with a large-print version and a braille edition. I suspect this was done at the insistance of J.K.Roweling.

There was a quote in one of the papers from a ten year old boy saying how he was looking forward to being able to read it at the same time as his sighted friends this time, instead of waiting till his mother had finished reading it to him, which took a couple of months, and made life awkward, trying to avoid hearing what was going to happen.

And he was going to be able to read the braille version in bed in the dark, which was more than his sighted friends would be able to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 03:01 AM

Wonder how long it will be before the audio version hits the shelves....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Terry K
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:23 AM

I'm just glad that people are now seeing the books as what they really are, good yarns for kids of all ages. When the first one came out we had all these people telling us that the books "could be read at several levels" and were really for adults, and were so well written etc etc. At least all that nonsensical pretence seems to have dissipated and the whole phenomenon seems to be back in its correct context as "pop literature".

I'm all in favour of anything that gets people reading but let's not forget that reading only stuff that has little literary merit is a bit like teenyboppers listening to crappy pop music. Let's hope they graduate to something better, or literature will become dumbed down as much as music and television.

cheers, Terry

I just re-read that and OK, maybe it does sound just a teensy bit pompous, but I'm sure you know what I mean!

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:34 AM

I finished it last night - Excelent indeed but left me depressed:-( Dunno if was the events or because I have finished it though. Never mind - I think I will start from the Philosphers Stone when I get home:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 01:44 PM

according to various news sources there is an "unofficial" (read pirate) audio track available via the web. That's quick work!

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jul 05 - 04:56 PM

If you want an audio version, I'm sure you've got the technology available. But it does take time reading a book that way. That isn't a bad thing. Someone gave me a copy of the Order of the Phoenix on umpteen cassettes by Stephen Fry, and it kept me company as I was driving around for ages.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 12:04 PM

Potter rhymes with a lot of things

harry Potter
Well known rotter
nasty specs
like a train spotter.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 01:42 PM

The audio version is already out. We have it. My wife bought her copy on Sunday or Monday if I'm not mistaken. Jim Dale is the guy who reads it and does a great job with all of the voices. He's read all the Potter books - at least here in the US. I'm not familar with the Stephen Frye versions.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 07:36 PM

Well I read it in a little under 8 hours..... it's good , well written and twisty...there were a few tears too... but on the whole, I am left feeling slightly disappointed with something... can't put my finger on it...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: emjay
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 09:45 PM

Why all the discussion about the quality of the writing? Who is to decide and what does it matter?
It seems like really good writing to me, and age appropriate to anyone who wants to read it. I just wish I had been as smart as Ellenpoly and read the preceding two before each of the more recent ones came out. Oh well, I have them all to reread and I will.
I thought the newest one was terrific, maybe the best yet, ends with a real cliffhanger -- and I have to wait two years for the next one! And then they'll be over?
Please Ms. Rowling, what will you do next?
While I was waiting in line to pick up my prepaid copy, I picked up a copy in Irish. Well, I could read a few words, agus and some others. fun! Quick work!
We will get the audio version read by Jim Dale who is wonderful.
I have heard so many stories of reading this one by other addicts, almost like the "Where were you when...?" stories we all share after a major event.
While I recognize there are some who don't like them, don't want to read them, you are allowed but I am sorry for you.
Maybe some Mudcatter will write a song about Harry and all, maybe Marion Parsons could write one like her song about Anne with an E.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jul 05 - 10:54 PM

Finished it early this evening. My 11 y.o. got it about lunchtime on Saturday and was finished before supper on Sunday. The little twerp (God love 'im!) could not help but tell me who died by whose hand. I was glad to see some of the fun come back into it.... And I thought it more hopeful than the previous two of the series.

We will probably also get it on audio to listen to on trips. My son and I have enjoyed repeated playings of the other books on our travels.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 12:41 AM

Terry K. - I don't think literature can be 'dumbed down', it stands on its own merit. Books, however, have been dumbed down for a very long time. Remember comics? Romance novels? Mysteries?

Music was dumbed down by video. Theater was dumbed down by movies and movies were dumbed down by t.v.

I guess a good rule of thumb might be whether or not a book stands the test of time.

As far as literary merit, Harry Potter is rated highly when compared to everything else out there. Children are a big market. At least someone cared enough to produce something of value and something that could compete with Pokemon, Dora and Transformers. Now that is crap with no literary value!

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 01:45 AM

Can't believe she killed off Spock.
Or was it Scotty?

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:01 AM

Gotta admit I was disappointed in this last HP book, ending-wise.

Too many loose ends.

Things were going along well, after a long slow start, but ended too quickly with too many questions unanswered, IMO as well as a disappointing climax (the "shocker" notwithstanding). There was no feeling of events of this book being wrapped up and ready to move on, as with the others.

The other books were good complete adventures which, though obviously part of a series, could stand alone more or less. This one definitely felt incomplete and a come-on to leave people panting for the final book, which everybody who has come this far was going to be in for anyway.

Still, great books, all of them; good reads. Have to suspend final judgement till the last one comes out in what is going to feel like a very long wait now. Poor kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 02:08 AM

Oh, and if you found the teenaged hormonal Harry a bit annoying in the last few books, Ron and Hermione are doubly so in this last one, but for different reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Terry K
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 04:13 AM

Dianavan, you ever so slightly miss my point.

I am quite aware of the various types of reading - comics etc have always had their place as have Mills & Boon. But they have always had their context too, and been accepted for what they are.

My concern with HP is that if the phenomenon continues, children (of all ages) will see this as the standard for literature because the marketing men will not bother to release anything else. As has largely happened to the pop music business.

So the delights of "real" literature will be lost because there's no money to be made in it. Like folk music.

I see a number of posters regretting that they will have nothing to read until the next HP comes out in two years time - as if to say there's nothing else worth reading, at the same time claiming HP has "literary merit" - surely that's the proof they've read little else of consequence!

cheers, Terry

(tongue heading towards cheek at the end)

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:27 AM

Just finished reading it this morning. I gave myself a whole week (I usually read most books in a day or two) and I wished it had been much longer.

As others have said, a lot has been left undeveloped, and if anything can be said in critisism that would be it.

But these are children's books and I think there is enough to chew on for most people.

A two year's wait for the last one is far too long, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 05:34 AM

Finished it, but have to keep stum until Essex Girl has read it. The ending is a bit depressing. What I want to know is how did Gryffindor win the last Quidditch match by such a large margin without Harry their seeker and captain ?

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:41 AM

Terry K - take a look at the threads on books - one fairly recently. I think that most 'catters have plenty to read.

Doesn't stop us wanting to find out what happened next with this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 06:53 AM

What I want to know is how did Gryffindor win the last Quidditch match by such a large margin without Harry their seeker and captain?"

Simple. They cheated. Probably a Confunding Spell...

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 07:54 AM

Ginny Weasley was a pretty good seeker when Harry was banned from playing by Dolores Umbridge... maybe she let Dean get on with the scoring and went after the Snitch in Harry's place. Not being so anally retentive as to have read the 'Rules of Quidditch', I am unaware of any ruling that would prevent this.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 08:12 PM

And it was a bit much having Dumbledore drink 8 cups of Voldemort's pee.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 04:25 AM

Having now finished the book, I can understand what you meant by feeling a little disappointed, Liz. I was as well. I'm not sure why. Perhaps like many have said here, there was a lot more that could have been developed. It felt like I was reading the beginning of a summation, where Rowling was making sure all her ducks were in order for the last book, but not really spending as much time as she might have on many of the characters, or even the school year.

But like I said before, I'd be happy if each book were much much longer.

One thing I'd like to add though- I don't think children just read the Harry Potter books and then go back to watching TV and playing their video games until the next one arrives. I do think these books lead to others being read as well. There are many great children's authors out there who are benefiting from the HP books. Off the top of my head, I can think of several writers-Peter Dickenson, Robin McKinley, Diana Wynne Jones, Cornelia Funke, Phillip Pullman, Garth Nix, Phillip Reeve, Lemony Snicket(Brett Helquist) ...just to name a few-who follow in the same mode.

It's about capturing a child's imagination. From there they can go where ever they want in their reading, and I believe they will.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:35 AM

Finished it at the week end. Thought I had worked out some of the twists in the plot only to be fooled again. Still I dont think it is her best.
It certainly set up the last book to be a bit of an epic with lots of answers to be given.

I still think that Harry only survived the initial attack by Voldemort because his mother and father becoming part of him... "you do have your mothers eyes"...... "you do act just like your father"...etc and most revealing I think is the bit where Harry summons his patronos by the lake. Re read it and see what I mean!


And after the next book.. well what about "Son of Potter".

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Torctgyd
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:59 AM

"Son of Potter" presuposes Harry survives: I think that is presupposing too much. I did, however, have a dream after I'd finished the book that Fawkes was a Horcrux!

Anyone worked out who R.A.B is yet, it must be in one of the earlier books; I'll have to re-read them now to see what clues are there!

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 07:24 AM

Regulus (A.) Black?

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 07:25 AM

Regulus Black is odds on favorite for the moment (Sirius' Brother), at R.A.B. but I'm sure by the time the next book is out there will be dozens of theories.

I really do advise going back and re-reading the books before the last one comes out. It's a long-playing mystery which JK Rowling planned in great detail. I don't think she'll be handing us any red herrings at this point.

And now I'm going to back to my life... ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 08:16 AM

I think if she decided to write another book in the series it'd be a prequel of some kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 06:54 PM

My take:

JK originally meant to do 7 books, no more. But the books were too successful and the money machine wants her to expand the franchise. So now Harry has to go after the horcruxes before he can take on Voldemort. Thus, more books!

I was a bit disappointed in this book but I will be there for the next one.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 03:41 AM

Actually she's been quite clear in saying number 7 will be the end of the series and after that she won't be doing any more fantasy books. (Apparently she never liked the genre and didn't realize she was writing a fantasy for quite a while!)

And remember, there are only 4 horcruxes left.

;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 26 Jul 05 - 11:53 AM

Well Harry could do the busuiness then get killed off, leaving his orphaned son to seek revenge in "Son of Potter"

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Torctgyd
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 04:58 AM

Well actually, Harry is in fact one of the Horcruxes and therefore he can't kill Volde.... He Who Must Not Be Named

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: *Laura*
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 07:20 AM

I reckon him and Voldemort are BOTH going to die. And probably Ginny as well - just for good measure.
I don't think Rowling is an amazing writer - I think she's an excellent storyteller. There is a difference.
And I thought this book was a lot better than the last one - enjoyed it very much! :-) I like the hormonal Harry it's quite funny.

xLx

(p.s. - do you think she meant to have him thinking about Ginny whilst 'lying in bed looking up at the drapes on his four poster bed' - t.i.c.)

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 07:57 AM

If that's a double meaning it's a pretty obscure double meaning...

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM

The last book will be a blood-bath with characters being killed of as each horcux is tracked down and destroyed.
The final "battle scene" is Harry, Vodermort, Nev(Who is the Real Chosen One)and Snape, The others getting wipped out earlier in the book.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Torctgyd
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 08:38 AM

Well if Neville is the real chosen one let's hope that Voldie is vulnerable to herbology

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 11:27 AM

Well, I thought it was dreary. I started reading them when I was forced to by a small child, and liked the whole concept of the earlier ones (having been to a boy's private school with 4 houses, but no magic or girls, I could sort of relate), and rather admired the way the books got deeper, there were parts of 4 and 5 that were quite superior writing, and chunks of Dickensian writing (she had been reading Our Mutual Friend at one point). But this book shows the limits of her imagination, unfortunately.   For a start, there is far too much plot exposition for pages and pages and pages (the Dumbledore scenes in the past are really boring, the scenes in the country hovel have no life to them, they are a sort of cardboard Thomas Hardy, in part because she seems to be unable to do anything with landscape, which is strange).   The cave landscape, and the lake of the dead are something out of more cardboard, or movies. Something striking is how much her writing is now being influenced by the movies of her books -- the characters have turned into counters to be manipulated as plot devices. They are all patched in and out. The elves appear, go away again (now eerily turning into Gollum in their talk), Snape does his thing, Madame Divination is now exactly like Emma Thompson, and so on. The Quidditch game is of no real interest, patched in.   The really strange thing is that the Harry Potter-Ginny Weasley romance is handled so poorly -- the beginning works well, and then, oh well, they get together, and it is fine, and then Harry has to send her away because his enemies will strike him through her (this is a direct steal from Spider Man).   

It is very strange. It is as if the life has gone out of the whole enterprise completely, just as it was heading towards the end.   It is a pity, I was looking forward to seeing Rowling forge ahead. A couple of nice jokes were what made it bearable.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: *Laura*
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 11:39 AM

MGofH - maybe I'm just being a teenager then...

I agree - Neville is the real chosen one. Maybe he will kill VOldemort.
Althouth I still reckon Harry dies.

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 11:57 AM

Peter- I agree - there were many frustrating things about this book

- the blackened hand - which was pretty much ignored (excuse me? In a school full of teenagers?)

The whole Tonks/Lupin bit either should have been explored or left out

BTW - the spider man thingie was a direct steal from Superman - so probably it's even older. Standard plot device I have been expecting since the first time Ginny was dumbstruck in Harry's presence.

I personally think Snape will be vindicated and shown to be a double agent for the good guys. I suspect Dumbledore will come back - which I really *really* wish wouldn't happen

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: clueless don
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 12:29 PM

Haven't read book six yet (I'm in the "Holds queue" at the local public library), but I have gathered quite a bit about what happens from reading various websites. I'm not trying to avoid "spoilers" - on the contrary, I am seeking them out!

One thought has come to me - all this business of the horcruxes reminds me of the "Key to Time" sequence in Doctor Who. I'm sure that someone could tell me that that was in turn taken from an older folklore, so perhaps JKR didn't lift it from Who.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 12:31 PM

The placing of a portion of the soul into some object to give some semblence of immortality goes back at least as far as the ainciant greeks. I believe the concept was also present in Polynesian myth and (not quite as sure) Native American.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: *Laura*
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 12:31 PM

Ooh - yeh I agree. I think it's too obvious to have Snape as a proper bad guy - so I think he's just being a complicated double-crosser. At least I hope so.
But I don't think Dumbledore will come back (apologies if anyone didn't know what happened yet!)

There's a lot from Lord of the Rings there too - the enchanted forest with all the weird trees and stuff, the Dementors are blatently the Black Riders, Dumbledore is Gandalf (and Gandalf came back so maybe you're right MMario)... etc etc...

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 05:56 PM

All this horcruxes business just seems to me to be a lot of padding, to stave off the last confrontation. Collect up the pieces, and you will have a full person (Reminds me of the Beyond the Fringe skit about the Identikit -- "And so you piece together the face of the criminal?" "No, we piece together a likeness of the criminal. If we could piece together the criminal, then we would be a long way towards having the criminal, the criminal body usually being found beneath the criminal face"). Its real flaw is that it turns the plot into a treasure hunt, which is unnecessary at this stage. What with Horcruxes, and Dementors, and Azkaban, it is all getting way too complicated and wearisome. Seven is probably a book too far. If she were a ruthless self-editor, we would have had the great last war this time around.   I consider this volume to be Harry Potter and the Half-Cash Cow.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 05:58 PM

Sorry, joke is lost! "If we could piece together the criminal face...."


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 05 - 07:06 PM

Ideally she'd have written all the books before the first one was published, the way Tolkien did with the Lord of the Rings. Or at the other extreme, perhaps, written them in monthly installments, like Dickens.

Book size chunks, coming out every year or so, but trying to contain a continuing story line, and heading towards a predetermined ending, must be the hardest one of all. Especially with all the hype and the films and all - it would be virtually impossible for her to avoid being affected by the way the characters have been portrayed in the films, because she knows all her readers are already seeing them that way.

I have a feeling that at some time she might come back and revise this volume and extend some parts of it - not so much because that would be a way of milking the market, like a "directors cut" film, as because there are bits that need amplifying, such as the Tonks/ Lupin stuff mentioned by several people, and the back story for Dumbledore's blackened hand, and I can imagine her wanting to do that kind of thing, because she clearly cares about getting it right.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:04 AM

I used to work in a children's library, and I've read quite a few children's books. I wonder how many parents today can say the same.

I've read one Harry Potter book (I've forgotten the name), and that was because I was desperate for a book to read on a trans-Atlantic flight.

In my opinion, the book was cheaply done, far too violent, and read like a movie. The ending was simply wrenched into place after the author had written herself into a corner. (I suspect that the book was actually produced by a committee.) There are far better books for kids down at the public library.

My view was shared by a friend of mine, eight years old, who told me, "We stopped reading it. It was too violent."

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:10 AM

Now you see I find the potter books far less violent then a lot of kids books I have read - virtually all the action takes place "off screen" as it were - and many kids books have explicit descriptions of murder, torture.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 11:51 AM

and of cours roald dahl books are not violent and all kids are nice and.. and ...and ... Oh come on you are all just green with envy of the money she has made.
It is so easy to sit and judge. I dont see many of you writting books thats sell MILLIONS.

As for pinching plots from Dr Who, Superman, and Spiderman I suggest you stop reading comic books and broaden your literary knowledge somewhat.

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: *Laura*
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 01:32 PM

Anyway - the books are aimed at the age of Harry. So - I turned seventeen this year, which means theoretically I'm the perfect age to read the one that's just come out.
I know that younger kids read them - well thats fair enough and great that they want to - but the books aren't aimed at them so it should just be accepted that some of them will be too young for the books! (and of course - others won't have a problem).
What I don't really see is how they are going to do the films of the later books without them being really lame - Harry gets pretty aggressive at times which is fine in the book but it won't work on a film unless they make it rating 12 or something - which kids won't like. I know lots of people probably don't think thats important - but... I think something like a sixteen year old who wont say 'crap' would just be.. well - lame! (I don't like the actor that plays Harry either.. but that's a seperate subject)

xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Harry Potter:
From: Tam the man
Date: 28 Jul 05 - 03:08 PM

I like books, but not Harry Potter, the only Harry Potter book/film is the one were they all die. (only kidding).

I was just wondering if you lot watch big brother (UK).

Tam