Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19]


The Advent and Development of Chanties

Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Yangtse River Shanty (34)
Spanish sea shanties (63)
ADD: Alabama John Cherokee (16)
What exactly is a sea shanty? (27)
What your favorite sea shanty? (92)
Shanty or Chantey? (197)
What is a Shanty (100)
Stories/Shanties of Hjalmar Rutzebeck (22)
The origin of Sea Chanteys (129)
Help: What is a 'forebitter'? (58)
Info: The Shanty Book (Richard Runciman Terry) (25)
Lyr Add: Chanties of Capt. Tho. Forrest (15)
Lyr Req: Strike Up the Band, Here Comes a Sailor (8)
L.A. Times article on S.F. chantey sing (34)
Lyr Add: Huckleberry Hunting (Pumping Chantey) (51)
Deficit of Doerflinger on Wikipedia (15)
Annotated Bibliography on Sea Shanties (9)
sea shanties (110)
A Little-Known Shanty Collection (42)
French Shanty Site (8)
(origins) Origin: John Cherokee (59)
Lyr Req: One More Pull (41)
Chanties Helped Win World War I (25)
Sea Chantey Lyrics, MIDI tunes, & MP3's (54)
Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman (165)
Cowell Collection Shanties (4)
Tempo for Chanties (12)
Lyr Add: Windlass Shanty-Lincoln Colcord Rework (12)
Lyr Req: French sea shanties (40)
Happy! - July 30 (Doerflinger) (4)
Lyr Add: Larry Marr (shanty) (1)
Lyr Add: Windlass Chantey (8)
Lyr Add: Hi Rio, Randy-o! Shanty? (4)
Watered Down Shanties (33)
Who Said - Shanty worth 5 men? (30)
Sea Chanteys (shanteys) part two (3)
Lyr Req: Shantyman (Bob Watson) (14)
shanty sessions in U.K. (12)
New England Shanty Sessions (31)
Lyr Req: Whalen's Fate (Doerflinger version) (6)
Shanty Gathering Ideas for New England (26)
Lyr Add: Seafood Shop Chantyman's Song (5)
Chanties in Southern Maine (5)
Musical question (chantey types) (30)
Baggyrinkle - To Hull & Back (Shanty Festival) (58)
Lyr Req: Sea chantey:'...wouldn't do me any harm' (34)
help: Moby Dick shanty thread? (19)
Shantyfest at Mystic Seaport (3)
help a struggling student! - triple meter chant? (10)
Lyr Req: Seeking: 2 Shanties & 1 Traditional Folk (9)
Shanty background: Portland's Tunnels (32)
Rum, Sea Shanties and Women (27)
William Main Doerflinger 1909-2000 (15)


Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 07:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM
Lighter 20 Apr 10 - 07:52 PM
Gibb Sahib 20 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:15 AM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:43 AM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 09:00 AM
Lighter 22 Apr 10 - 10:32 AM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Apr 10 - 01:45 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 03:06 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:09 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 07:45 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Apr 10 - 09:09 PM
John Minear 22 Apr 10 - 10:24 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 12:31 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 12:52 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 01:05 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 01:36 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 11:43 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 11:53 AM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 12:16 PM
doc.tom 23 Apr 10 - 01:00 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 01:08 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 01:22 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 01:50 PM
John Minear 23 Apr 10 - 02:02 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 02:07 PM
doc.tom 23 Apr 10 - 02:18 PM
Gibb Sahib 23 Apr 10 - 02:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 01:26 AM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 01:50 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 02:19 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 02:39 PM
Lighter 24 Apr 10 - 08:14 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 08:32 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Apr 10 - 08:49 PM
Gibb Sahib 25 Apr 10 - 01:47 AM
Gibb Sahib 25 Apr 10 - 02:15 AM
John Minear 25 Apr 10 - 09:36 AM
John Minear 25 Apr 10 - 09:44 AM
John Minear 25 Apr 10 - 10:05 AM
John Minear 25 Apr 10 - 01:07 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:05 PM

John M. writes:

////
And then a reference from Solomon Northup's TWELVE YEARS A SLAVE, 1855, perhaps talking about events in 1853 or earlier. He mentions some fiddle tunes and "patting juba" songs, among which are "Old Hog Eye!" and "Jim Along, Josie."
////

Here is the passage.

One " set" off, another takes its place, he or she remaining longest on the floor receiving the most up roarious commendation, and so the dancing continues until broad daylight. It does not cease with the sound of the fiddle, but in that case they set up a music peculiar to themselves. This is called " patting," accompanied with one of those unmeaning songs, composed rather for its adaptation to a certain tune or measure, than for the purpose of expressing any distinct idea. The patting is performed by striking the hands on the knees, then striking the hands together, then striking the right shoulder with ona hand, the left with the other—all the while keeping timo with the feet, and singing, perhaps, this song.

" Harper's creek and roarin' ribber,
Thar, my clear, we'll live forebber;
Den we'll go to de Ingin nation,
All I want in dis creation,
Is pretty little wife and big plantation.

Chorus. Up dat oak and down dat ribber,
Two overseers and one little nigger"

Or, if these words are not adapted to the tune called for, it may be that " Old Hog Eye" is—a rather solemn and startling specimen of versification, not, however, to be appreciated unless heard at the South. It runneth as follows:

"Who's been here since I've been gone?
Pretty little gal wid a josey on.

Hog Eye!
Old Hog Eye,
And Hosey too!

Never see de like since I was bom,
Here come a little gal wid a josey on.

Hog Eye!
Old Hog Eye!
And Hosey too!"

Or, may be the following, perhaps, equally nonsenaical, but full of melody, nevertheless, as it flows from the negro's mouth :

"Ebo Dick and Jurdan's Jo,
Them two niggers stole my yo'

Chorus. Hop Jim along,
       Walk Jim along,
         Talk Jim along. &c.

Old black Dan, as black as tar,
He dam glad he was not dar.
    Hop Jim along," &c


It's not *quite* "Jim along Josey" as we know it. One could say that, whether the minstrel song was based in a slave song or whether it was original in 1840, it did also have a life by this time as a folk song among Blacks. I would reason that, since the form of this does not match that of the minstrel version, that a folk version existed before and alongside the minstrel version. That is somewhat dodgy reasoning, however.

Was a version "Hog Eye" also a minstrel song? The "typical" lyrics appear in minstrelsy, I know, being floating verses. But the chorus?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM

In SEA DRIFT, Hercules Robinson (1858) recalls his days in the British Navy and serving during the Battle of Trafalgar, 1805. I don't find where it says when he first went to see. However, it is that time (i.e. 1805 or earlier) that he refers to when giving his "Sally Brown" song.

When I went to sea first, the bellowing of officers in carrying on duty was awful, and a strong voice was a gift greatly prized. Every officer giving orders used a speaking trumpet, and the men were not half restrained in the article of noise. They were not allowed to do their work with such a song as Dickens commemorates—
" Oh Sally Brown, Sally Brown, oh !
She won't have a Yankee sailor, oh!
Cos she loves the nigger tailor, oh!!"—[Da Capo.]

But short of this refrain there was a great latitude as to exclamation and noise. My Captain, the first, Sir Henry Blackwood, had a wonderful organ, and might be heard a mile off.


Well, so they were not allowed to sing in the British Navy. It is not clear whether this song was of that time period (i.e. on non-Navy ships) or if it came in later -- in time for Dickens to commemorate it. Was it this song that Dickens commemorated, or another, perhaps as in HOUSEHOLD WORDS, 1855-56, which has an out-of-context reference to "Drunken Sailor"?

In any case, though this has the name "Sally Brown," and its lyrical theme, its form is not of the stanzaic sort, with "roll and go" chorus, that we know of later. It looks more like a "Cheerly Man" form, which would be consistent with the earlier time period and Navy context, if so. It's not Maryat's "Sally Brown" of 1837, but it does appear like the iffy "common sailor's chant" sung on stage by Wallack in the 1820s. I'm going to file it as "circa 1805-1820s."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 07:52 PM

Maybe someone else can identify the three other tunes printed by Peck.

I believe that No. 3 is the tune used by one or more of Carpenter's singers for "Victorio" or "Very Well Done, Jim Crow!"

The final bars of No. 1 seem to make up a chorus that scans like that of "Stormy Old Weather, Windy Old Weather."

No. 2 reminds me a little of the Scots song "Drumdelgie" and the Irish tune "O'Keefe's Slide."

I wouldn't discount their possible use in shanties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 10:05 PM

For the last (at present) reference that might be attributed to the 1850s, I want to copy (with minor additions) John Minear's post from elsewhere on Mudcat.

////snip
Posted By: John Minear
31-Mar-10 - 07:45 AM
Thread Name: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?
Subject: RE: From SF to Sydney - 1853 Shanties Sung?

Here is a reference to the hauling/halyard chanty "Whiskey for Johnny!" being used to "pull round the yards" on board of the packet ship "Mary Bradford" on a cruise from London to New York, from the book THE REAL EXPERIENCES OF AN EMIGRANT [(Ward, Lock and Tyler)]:

       "The passengers assisted the sailors to pull round the yards - a work of great difficulty. It was done by a series of pulls - thus: one man took hold of the rope and stood on the spar of the bulwark, singing a few words of a song - I could not make them out - the others called out, "Whisky for Johnny!" and gave a simultaneous haul, when the yard came round an inch or two, and so they continued until the sail was sheeted home." (p. 39)

The frustrating thing about this reference is that there is no publication date that I can find for the book other than "187?". And like a lot of these accounts, the writer chooses to *not* give a date for his experience! I have yet to understand this, unless it is a way of covering up a fiction. It makes me suspicious right off. He says, "On Saturday, the --day of June, 18--, I embarked on board the "Mary Bradford," then lying in the basin of the London Docks, and bound for New York." (p. 5)

There certainly was a "Mary Bradford", and she was one of the "Swallow-Tail Line of Packet Ship", sailing every alternate Thursday from New York and London. Here is an advertisement from 1859:...

She was launched in October of 1854 at Warren, Rhode Island, and immediately sailed for Mobile....

And on July 5, 1855, she was struck by lightning at Battery Wharf in Boston!...

While it is a somewhat shaky guess, I would say that this reference to "Whiskey for Johnny!" *could* be located in the later 1850s. It seems to place it in the packet trade. However, this chanty has quite a reputation for being used on board the packet ships. It is strange that this is the only reference I have been able to find that really confirms that, so far. All of the other solid references to "Whiskey Johnny" are later.
////snip

As far as dating the event goes, that makes a lot of sense to me. Additionally, the narrator mentions meeting a survivor of the U.S. steamship CENTRAL AMERICA, which used to transport gold-seekers between NY and Panama, and which sank off North Carolina in Sept. 1857. Abolitionists are mentioned, but the Civil War is conspicuously absent. So between 1858-1860 sounds about right. OK?

My suspicion is that this is not the halyard chantey "Whiskey for Johnny." Because if they were pulling the yards around (tacking), they'd be hauling on braces, right? (Someone please adjust my shaky sailing knowledge.) It sounds like a sheet shnty or a "sing-out," where perhaps there was just a hard pull on "Johnny!" Thoughts?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:15 AM

I had forgotten this source. It is James Hungerford's THE OLD PLANTATION (1859), which includes observations of slave songs the author heard whilst visiting a relative's plantation in southern Maryland in 1832.

First passage. The people are on a boat on a creek.

"This is getting dull," said the major, after the silence had lasted some minutes ; " Come, Charley, give us a song to enliven us a little."

In obedience to this order, Charley struck up a song; the other oarsmen answered in chorus, all timing the strokes of their oars to the measure. The song was not by any means enlivening, however, either in words or tune—as the reader will perceive. I have entitled it

SOLD OFF TO GEORGY [Chorus parts are in parentheses]

1. Farewell fellow servants, (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm gwine way to leabe you (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm gwine to leave de ole county (O-ho! O-ho!)
I'm sold off to Georgy! (O-ho! O-ho!)

2. Farewell, ole plantation, (Oho! Oho!)
   Farewell, de ole quarter, (Oho ! Oho!)
Un daddy, un mammy, (Oho! Oho !)
Un marster, un missus ! (Oho ! Oho!)

8. My dear wife un one chile, (Oho! Oho!)
My poor heart is breaking; (Oho ! Oho!)
No more shall I see you, (Oho ! Oho !)
Oh ! no more foreber! (Oho! Oho!)

The reader will observe that the lines of the song do not rhyme ; and it may be remarked that the negro songs—that is, such as they can compose themselves—are mostly without rhymes. When they do attempt to rhyme they frequently take more than the poetic license, being satisfied—when they can not do better—if the vowel-sounds at the ends of the lines agree.

The tone of voice in which this boat-song was sung was inexpressibly plaintive, and, bearing such a melancholy tune, and such affecting words, produced a very pathetic effect. I saw tears in the eyes of the young ladies, and could scarcely restrain my own. We heard but the three verses given (such songs are sometimes stretched out to many verses) ; for at the end of the third verse the major interrupted the song.

" Confound such lively music," he exclaimed; "it is making the girls cry, I do believe. And with such slow measure to sing to, we shall scarcely get into Weatherby's Creek tonight."
" De boat-songs is always dat way, marster," said Charley —" dat is mo' er less."
"Well, try to find something better than that," said the major; " I am sure that it is impossible for any thing to be more low-spirited in words, or tune, or manner of singing."
" Yas, marster," was Charley's answer. And the negroes sang another boat-song, but not so very sad as their first.
"Charley is right," said Miss Bettie, with a laugh; "the boat-songs are ' all that way, more or less.' I think that we had better have silence than such low-spirited music. Do you not think so, uncle?"
" Entirely," said the major. " The pathetic is well enough when there is need of stirring up our feelings of humanity, but I can see no use in creating mere low spirits."
" I like the music," said Lizzie ; " it is sometimes pleasant —if I may speak such a seeming paradox—to be made sad without any personal cause for being so. Such a state of feeling may be called ' the luxury of woe.' "
Miss Susan and I agreed with her. The negroes seemed pleased at our approval.


It looks like the 'marsters' got more than they bargained for when they requested a song!

It is printed with tune. It's in 6/8, in what you could call the major pentatonic scale (CDEGA). This gives some insight on what was being called "plaintive"! This shows that plaintive wasn't necessarily minor -- though the drop down to the sixth scale degree, presumably not characteristic of English music, lends a minor-ish touch. Blue notes may have been happening, or it may have just been something else in the "tone of voice." At least this resolves (for me) some of the disjuncture between the idea of "plaintive" and chanty melodies of today. That is, this melody is not unlike chanty melodies of today, so if this was what was being called "plaintive," then other references to "plaintive" could be to the same sort of idea.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:43 AM

The second passage in Hungerford 1859 contains the famous "Round the Corn, Sally."


" Charley looks as if he would sing us another song," said Miss Bettie. " What is that lively little song, Charley, which I heard you and some of the hands sing the other day, when you were hanging tobacco at the barn ? I am sure that you can row to that."
" Sure unnuff, young misstis," answered Charley; " I had forgot dat. But dat's a corn song; un we'll hab ter sing it slow ter row to."
" Try it, at any rate," said the major.
" Sartinly, sah, ef de marsters un mistisses wants it."
Charley was evidently somewhat vexed at the disparaging
remarks made by the petitioners on his previous performance.
Nevertheless, there came a quiet smile to his face as he began
the following song:

ROUN' DE CORN, SALLY.

1. Hooray, hooray, ho!
Roun' de corn, Sally !
Hooray for all de lub- ly la-dies!
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly I
Hooray, hoo - ray, ho !
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!
Hoo-ray for all de lub - ly la - dies!
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!

Dis lub's er thing dat 's sure to hab you,
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly!
He hole you tight, when once he grab you,
Roun' de corn, Sal -ly!
Un ole un ug - ly, young un prit- ty,
Roun' do corn, Sal - ly!
You need- en try when once he git you,
Roun' de corn, Sal - ly !

2. Dere's Mr. Travers lub Miss Jinny;
He thinks she is us good us any.
He comes from church wid her er Sunday,
Un don't go back ter town till Monday.
                         Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

3. Dere's Mr. Lucas lub Miss Treser,
Un ebery thing he does ter please her;
Dey say dat 'way out in Ohio,
She's got er plenty uv de rhino.
                         Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

4. Dere's Marster Charley lub Miss Bettie;
   I tell you what—he thinks her pretty;
   Un den dey mean ter lib so lordly,
   All at de Monner House at Audley.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

5. Dere's Marster Wat, he lub Miss Susan;
He thinks she is de pick un choosin';
Un when dey gains de married station,
   He'll take her to de ole plantation.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

6. Dere's Marster Clarence lub Miss Lizzy;
   Dressing nice, it keeps him busy;
Un where she goes den he gallants her,
Er riding on his sorrel prancer.
                      Hooray, hooray, ho! etc.

This song caused much amusement at the expense of each one of us who in turn became the subject of satire. The hit at Lizzie and me was the hardest, as we were both present, and was, therefore, I suppose, introduced at the end. Several laughing efforts were made by the ladies to interrupt the singing, when the words began to have reference to those who were present; but the old major insisted on " having it out," as he expressed himself. The decided " effect" produced by his song completely re-established Charley's good-humor. The old major, being the only white person present who was spared, of course enjoyed the occasion immensely; his laughter rang loud and far through the clear air, and was echoed back from the banks of the creek.
"Those are not the words, Charley," said Miss Bettie, " that you sung to that tune the other day."
" No, miss," was the answer. " Marse Weatherby's little Sam was ober at Sin Joseph's tud-day, un larnt um ter me. He said Clotildy made um un larnt um ter him dis morning.''
"But why did she make that verse," I asked, "about my 'gallanting' Miss Lizzie, as she calls it? I never rode out with Miss Lizzie till this morning."
" Sam said," answered Charley, " dat he asked Clotildy ubbout dat, un she said you was er gwine ter do it."
" I say, young Audley," said the major, " you forget that the poet has a right to foreshadow coming events. I have a dim recollection of having read, somewhere that there was a time at least
             " 'When the name Of poet and of prophet was the same.' "


Topical, ha ha! A good illustration of the qualities described by other authors. The tune is also given here, in 4/4, major scale. The harmonic structure is such that a IV chord comes at or just before the cadence, given a "modal" quality. Although it's not *exactly* what's written here (no one expects it to be), one can get a vert good sense of this melody from this rendition by The Johnson Girls. Note that while they sing the whole "hooray" part as a chorus, in Hungerford's text, that part is structured as a call and response. And of course, the harmonizing is their addition.

We also learn from this that "corn songs" were faster than those for rowing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:00 AM

Here are three more references to "Round the Corn, Sally" as a corn-shucking song. The first is from 1848:

http://books.google.com/books?id=PCpKAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA287&dq=%22Round+the+corn,+sally%22&lr=&cd=23#v=onepage&q=%22Round%20the%20cor

I'm not sure on the dating of this one, which was published in 1894, but surely it is earlier than that:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2ncAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=1#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f

And, from SLAVE SONGS OF THE UNITED STATES, by Allen, Ware and Garrison, published in 1867, a tune:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6frfZd0-1xkC&pg=PA68&dq=Round+the+corn,+sally&cd=4#v=onepage&q=Round%20the%20corn%2C%20sally&f=


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:32 AM

See here (pp. 206-07) for a brief (and of course inconclusive) musicological discussion of "Round the Corn, Sally":

http://books.google.com/books?id=E2OQlWHzjvEC&pg=PA206&dq=%22Roun'+de+corn,+sally%22&lr=&cd=5#v=onepage&q=%22Roun'%20de%20corn%2C%20sally%22&f=false

I don't share the author's certainty that the shanty (with "corner" rather than "corn")"surely" came first.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 12:49 PM

OK! I've put those Round the Corn refs in my timeline, thanks.

The one published in 1894 is not authentic. It uses the same lyrics (polished up) as in Hungerford's 1832 account....lyrics which were composed specifically to address Hungerford's fellows at that time!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM

Gibb, I appreciate your close and careful reading of the sources!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 01:45 PM

Being more acqainted with chanties than slave songs I had not come across the 'Round the CORN songs' before. Whereas I do think that borrowing from one genre to another is often a two-way affair, in this case I think that 'round the corner' is more likely to derive from 'round the corn' than the reverse case.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 03:06 PM

Here's my meagre attempt to sort out the chicken-or-egg of "Round the corn(er)," with the the evidence available to me *at present*.

I think it is unlikely that the two phrases (corn/corner) coincidentally developed independently. So, one comes from the other. Having assumed that...

If we were to have evidence of the phrase "round the corner Sally" being in use in other contexts (e.g. in England, outside of maritime context) --especially if *earlier* than any of these working contexts-- then that would strengthen the originality of "Round the Corner, Sally" (shipboard song).

As far as the working songs go in the emerging "timeline," the first instance of one or the other phrase is:

1832, Maryland -- Hungerford's documented corn-shucking song Round the CORN

Next, just a few years after, comes,

1834-1836, on the brig _Pilgrim_, "Round the CORNER, Sally"

Then in 1839, "Round the CORNER" turns up in Tahiti as a song learned from sailors. CORNER turns up again in the Society Islands in 1844.

It persisted as a corn-shucking song, as evidenced by mention in 1848, and inclusion of a unique (i.e. not derivative of earlier texts) version in Allen's SLAVE SONGS.

It seems certain that, unless "Round the Corner" had become a popular song --that is, one that was widely spread and known amongst "all" people --that it's flow was the result of movement of African-Americans. I say this because, for example, I have difficulty imagining that non-Black sailors would have brought the song to plantations.

There may well have been some intermediary context, like rowing or stevedoring, which link the plantations to the sea. But in any case, I have difficulty imagining that Blacks were not the agents for the transfer. (Someone please critique my logic.) So, one might propose that Blacks either brought it to the ships when they came as sailors, or, having served as sailors, brought it to the plantations. To me, the former sounds more likely, i.e. slave song > shipboard song.

However, in terms of language, it seems to me slightly more likely that CORNER > CORN once the corn-shucking context was introduced. On the other hand, what did "corner" mean at all to sailors if it was *not* "flash girls down the alley"? (I don't buy the "Cape Horn" idea, at least not for this time period.)

I have not really clarified anything, but I will try to state my "bottom line":

If the phrase, "Round the Corner Sallies" was well established in Anglo discourse early on, then I'd learn towards CORNER coming first. Otherwise, I lean towards the CORN song coming first. In the latter case, the language scenario would be the reverse of Van De Merwe's idea: confronted with "corn," which no longer made any sense when brought to a maritime context, sailors changed it to "corner."

All that being said...if the slave song did get adopted as a sailor song, that happened at quite an early date -- before the time of cultural exchange (e.g. the cotton-stowing) that gives us a burst of new shanty repertoire. From Hungerford's 1832 Maryland to Dana's mid 1830s Cape Horn trip, that is a big leap in few years. The exchange probably would have happened quite a bit earlier. Was this one of the really early exchanges --compare GROG TIME-- during a period when African-Americans were well represented as sailing ship crew? I am too uncomfortable, with the lack of evidence, to say more.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 04:31 PM

I am just about in complete agreement with your summary, Gibb, with a reservation on the linguistic side. Corn and corner are far too close to determine which one would lead to the other. One has only to emphasize the 'n' on corn a little too much, as can happen when singing, and you have corner. Alternatively word endings can drop very easily in slang lingo (Mas' Jones = Master Jones). The only thing I can add is, to me 'round the corner Sally' rolls off the tongue marginally better, but that doesn't help at all in determining which might have come first. A lingiuistics expert would have plenty to say on this. The strong 'S' on Sally diminishes the 'er' sound on corner to the extent that there is very little difference between the two phrases. Try it. However, if you miss off the Sally, the 'er' becomes much more emphasised. Well, in my Yorkshire accent it does.

Looking back through the thread we have 'Round the corner Sally' appearing in a minstrel song in 1843. The most likely source of minstrel song material is African American. If we assume 'corner' was being used by the slaves then this means they were using both 'corn' and 'corner' and the change happened there, or at least that both were in use on the American mainland before transferring to shipboard use. Or not!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM

Some notes on the 1850s

I count about 13 *possibly* new chanties to appear in the 1850s. When I say "new," I mean new to the timeline of references; it is of course in possible to know if these songs were truly new to the world then. The more common hold-overs from the past decades are STORMALONG (in some form) and CHEERLY.

There are several references to shantying while pumping ship in the 1850s. This task was not mentioned in earlier decades.

Before the 1850s, I see only 3 direct references to using shanties for halyards. These shanties are CHEERLY, GROG TIME, and DRUNKEN SAILOR. In the 1850s, however, there is

CHEERLY x2
STORMY
WHISKEY JOHNNY
"Highland Day"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:09 PM

Steve,

Sorry I was unclear about "linguistic." I was not thinking about pronunciation or ease of speech or anything like that. I was thinking of the meaning of the words. That "corn" is meaningful in in the corn-shucking context is obvious. But what would "corner" mean to sailors, if not as part of the phrase meaning "streetwalkers"? Well, "corn" would mean even less to sailors, which is why I thought they might re-interpret "corn" as "corner." That particular issue is not one of hearing/pronunciation as it is one of assigning a meaning that fits.

Thanks for mentioning Emmet's minstrel song of 1843. I missed it, because I don't have it in my timeline. I have been trying to resist exploring the trajectories of individual songs, because I think that is being done quite nicely in the "warp" of John M's thread. In focusing on the "weft" here --the nitty-gritty of how chanteying in general is described-- some of non-work-song references fall through the cracks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 05:38 PM

Here is a sort of distilled "set list" for shanty repertoire known to have been sung *aboard sailing vessels* (also inclusive of the sailor songs that turn up on Pacific islands) up through 1859-ish. It is taking the focus away from the broad world of work-songs, for a moment, and only looking at the songs that made it aboard ships.

c.1800s-1820s

CHEERLY
"Oh Sally Brown, Sally Brown, oh!"
FIRE FIRE

1830s
"Pull away now, my Nancy, O!"
"To the Greenland sea/ Black although she be"
"Heave, to the girls!"
"Nancy oh!"
"Jack Cross-tree,"
"Heave round hearty!"
"Captain gone ashore!"
"Time for us to go!"
ROUND THE CORNER
"Hurrah! hurrah! my hearty bullies!"
CHEERLY
HIGHLAND LADDIE
SALLY BROWN
BOTTLE O
TALLY

1840s

GROG TIME
DRUNKEN SAILOR
"Heave her away"
"O! hurrah my hearties O!"
CHEERLY
"O ee roll & go"
"Heave him up! O he yo!"
ROUND THE CORNER
"Ho, O, heave O"
TALLY
ACROSS THE WESTERN OCEAN
HUNDRED YEARS
STORMY

1850s

"Oh fare you well, my own Mary Anne"
"When first we went a-waggoning"
CHEERLY
STORMY
BOWLINE
SANTIANA
BULLEY IN ALLEY
"Miranda Lee"
STORMALONG JOHN
MR. STORMALONG
SHENANDOAH
PADDY ON THE RAILWAY
WHISKEY JOHNNY
"Whisky for Johnny!"
MONEY DOWN
ACROSS THE WESTERN OCEAN
"Highland day and off she goes"
OUTWARD AND HOMEWARD BOUND

John, I'd be interested to hear how this squares with what you have come up with so far in terms of chanties that could have been sung aboard the JULIA ANN, 1853-55.


In the whole timeline, CHEERLY comes up 8 times, all in shipboard contexts. STORMY --in some form (I still need to sort out the tags, to distinguish different versions)-- turns up 7 times in that context. These are the two most common shanties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:18 PM

In the novel BLAKE; OR THE HUTS OF AMERICA, the first, relevant parts of which appeared in a periodical in 1859, M.R. Delany includes the following in reference to a riverboat on the Upper Mississippi:

...the boated glided steadily up the stream, seemingly in unison with the lively though rude and sorrowful song of the black firemen:

I'm a-goin' to Texas--O! O-O-O!
I'm a-goin' to Texas--O! O-O-O!


Looks like it could be a variation of the SAILOR FIREMAN.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM

Gibb, here is what we have found *so far* over on the "San Franciso to Sydney" thread. First of all there are songs that were given with lyrics and occasionally a tune, or with clear enough titles that we can identify them with known chanties today:

"Across the Briny (Western) Ocean"
"Aha, We're Bound Away, On The Wild Missouri"
"A Hundred Years Ago"
"All On The Plains Of Mexico"
"Bottle O"
"Bully in the Alley"
"Cheerily Men"
"Drunken Sailor"
"Fire Down Below"
"A Grog Time Of Day"
"Haul The Bowline"
"Hieland Laddie"
"Mary Ann"
"Mobile Bay" / "Johnny, Come Tell Us As We Haul Away"
"Nancy Fanana"
"One More Day For Johnny"
"Outward And Homeward Bound"
"Paddy Works On The Railway"
"Pay me the money down"
"Round The Corner, Sally"
"Row, Bullies, Row"
"Sally Brown"
"Stormalong"
"Whiskey Johnny"

Here is an additional list of songs identified as sung on board ship. Some even have lyrics. None had tunes, and to my knowledge have not been *clearly* identified with chanties known today:

"Captain gone ashore"
"Dandy ship and a dandy crew"
"Fire Maringo"
"Haul way, yeo ho, boys!"
"Heave round hearty!"
"Heave, to the the girls!"
"Heigho, heave and go"
"Highland day and off she goes"
"Ho, O, heave O"/ "Row, Billy, row"
"Hurrah! Hurrah! my hearty bullies"
"O, Hurrah, My Hearties, O"
"Jack Crosstree"
"Nancy oh!"
"Pull away now, my Nancy O!"
"Roll and go for that white pitcher, roll and go"
"Tally hi o you know"
"Time for us to go"
"Yankee Dollar"

And in comparison with your list I see I missed a few:

"Miranda Lee"
"To the Greenland sea/ Black although she be"
"When first we went a-waggoning" (this can be identified with other         known versions.)

Your listing is a more precise than mine, for example, noting the different versions of "Stormalong". And in some cases our titles may be different. My "Yankee Dollar" is your "MONEY DOWN". Basically, we agree!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:34 PM

I forget these, in the above set list, for the 1850s:

MOBILE BAY
FIRE FIRE
ONE MORE DAY


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 07:45 PM

MONEY DOWN refers to Pay Me The Money Down. I don't have "Yankee Dollar" on *this* particular list, because here I am ignoring songs that were not for sailing tasks.

The title we choose, of course, are fairly arbitrary.

To distinguish the two "Fire Down Below"s, I call the "fire on the foretop/fetch a bucket of water" one as FIRE FIRE. The steamboat one I have as SAILOR FIREMAN.

I really do have to sort out my system for "Stormalong" variants. That is not yet firm; I need to refer to Hugill.

We might speculate that "Nancy oh!" and "Pull away now, my Nancy O!" were the same song, though we've both logged them separately.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 09:09 PM

All in all, it's still a pretty meagre set list for the repertoire of a chanteyman, now isn't it?

If I count the songs on my list that I would consider to be known to us today (=collected by individuals), the number comes to only some 25 chanties. One could subtract one, GROG TIME, from that because it has not come down to us today. And although I don't personally include MARINGO in that count, it is relevant to note that it was never cited as being used over deep water and it may have disappeared after the 1850s.

CHEERLY is interesting too, because it lasted so long ...and yet nowadays we don't know it (=know it to be able to perform it) very well. I will be interested to see for how long it continues to show up, and what the musical notations are like, in later years. My sense as of now is that the oral tradition of how to sing CHEERLY may have been broken.

Perhaps around 10 in the list qualify as what we'd now call double-pull halyard shanties.

I'm still waiting for the chantey EXPLOSION! Well, if Alden's "30 years ago" were more definite in refering to the 1850s, perhaps we'd have seen one.

This takes us up to the Civil War/Between the States, basically, a period after which the creation of new shanties is supposed to have gone down. Let's see!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Apr 10 - 10:24 PM

With the 1860's we have a peculiar problem that I have not figured out how to solve. A good number of the folks who show up in the later published collections started going to sea in the early to late 1860's. For instance, Captain John Robinson went to sea in 1859. He's got quite a developed list of chanties in his BELLMAN collection. Whall went to sea in 1861. He was only at sea for eleven years and he has quite a collection. Richard Maitland, who gave so many songs to Doerflinger, went to sea in 1869. Harding, in Hugill, probably went to sea in the late 1860's. Some of the singers in the Carpenter Collection were at sea in the 1860's. I don't know about Sharp's informants, but they were old fellows, too. And there is Joanna Colcord's father, and Hugill's father as well, along with some of Hugill's other shipmates and informants.

The problem is that their songs were "collected" much later in their lives. We don't know when they learned them. We don't know whether they come from the late 1850's or the 1880's. All I have been able to say is that they *could* have been learned as early as the '60's.

The only collections that come to my mind that I have been able to date to the sixties *to my satisfaction* are the ones from Adams in ON BOARD THE ROCKET, which I think can be dated to 1868, and the anonymous article in ONCE A WEEK, "On Shanties," also from 1868.

I'll be interested to see what we can turn up otherwise.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 12:31 AM

I had this interesting piece in my bookmarked folder for the 1860s...but it turns out it refers to 29 March, 1843. "Corn-shucking in South Carolina--From the Letters of a Traveller" (in Cyclopaedia of American literature, by E. A. and G. L. Duyckinck, 1866).

More "wild" and "plaintive" stuff. :) John comes, not down to Hilo or the holler, but to the "hollow." Note the suspicious phrase, "round the corner." And another "Going away to Georgia" -- reminds of "Shallow Brown."

"Jenny gone away" reappears. And what of "Dan Dan..."?

The light-wood-fire was made, and the negroes dropped in from the neighboring plantations, singing as they came. The driver of the plantation, a colored man, brought out baskets of corn in the husk, and piled it in a heap; and the negroes began to strip the husks from the ears, singing with great glee as they worked, keeping time to the music, and now and then throwing in a joke and an extravagant burst of laughter. The songs were generally of a comic character; but one of them was set to a singularly wild and plaintive air, which some of our musicians would do well to reduce to notation. These are the words:

Johnny come down de hollow.
             Oh hollow!
Johnny come down de hollow.
             Oh hollow !
De nigger-trader got me.
             Oh hollow!
De speculator bought me.
             Oh hollow !
I'm sold for silver dollars,
             Oh hollow !
Boys, go catch the pony.
             Oh hollow!
Bring him round the corner.
             Oh hollow!
I'm goln' away to Georgia.
             Oh hollow!
Boys, good-by forever!
             Oh hollow!

The song of " Jenny gone away," was also given, and another, called the monkey-song, probably of African origin, in which the principal singer personated a monkey, with all sorts of odd gesticulations, and the other negroes bore part in the chorus, "Dan, dan, who's the dandy?" One of the songs, commonly sung on these occasions, represents the various animals of the woods as belonging to some profession or trade. For example—

De cooter is de boatman—

The cooter is the terrapin, and a very expert boatman he is.

De cooter Is de boatman.
    John John Crow.
De red-bird de soger.
    John John Crow.
De mocking-bird de lawyer.
    John John Crow.
De alligator sawyer
    John John Crow.

The alligator's back is furnished with a toothed ridge, like the edge of a saw, which explains the last line.


LINK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 12:52 AM

Next is from a sort of preview to Allen's SLAVE SONGS. It comes in The Pennsylvania freedmen's bulletin, 1865. The song is "I'm Gwine to Alabamy", and it's called a "Mississippi River Boat Song." Further, it is noted that it is, "A very good specimen, so far as notes can give one, of the strange barbaric songs that one hears upon the Western steamboats."

The tunes is given, in G (natural) minor.

I'm Gwine to Alabamy
    Ohh....
For to see my mammy
    Ahh....


etc. Lyrics at the link below.

LINK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:05 AM

More steamboatin'.

From McBRIDE'S MAGAZINE, VOL. 2, Dec. 1868. It is an article called "Songs of the Slave."

For many years the steamboats on Western and Southern rivers were, almost without exception, manned by crews of negro slaves. Even after white labor began to encroach upon the occupation of the "deck-hand" and "roustabout," the vocation of " fireman " was peculiarly the negro's. He basked in an atmosphere insupportable to whites, and delighted in the alternation of very hard labor and absolute idleness. It was not uncommon for large steamers to carry a crew of forty or fifty negro hands, and it was inevitable that these should soon have their songs and peculiar customs. Nine-tenths of the " river songs" (to give them a name) have the same refrain, and nearly all were constructed of single lines, separated by a barbarous and unmeaning chorus. The leader would mount the capstan as the steamer left or entered port, and affect to sing the solo part from a scrap of newspaper, " the full strength of the company" joining in the chorus. The effect was ludicrous, for no imagination was expended on the composition. Such songs were sung only for the howl that was their chief feature. A glance at the following will abundantly satisfy the reader with this department of negro music:

STEAMBOAT SONG [with music]

What boat is that my darling honey?
    Oh, oh ho, ho ay yah yah-ah!
She is the "River Ruler"; yes my honey!
    Ah a... yah a...ah!

Occasionally some stirring incident of steamboat achievement, as the great race between the " Shotwell" and the " Eclipse," would wake the Ethiopian muse and inspire special paeans. But as a general rule the steamboat songs were tiresomely similar to the one just given.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:36 AM

Probably referring to observations from the 1850s, in SOCIAL RELATIONS IN OUR SOUTHERN STATES (1860), D.R. Hundley writes:

No matter where they may be or what they may be doing, indeed, whether alone or in crowds, at work or at play, ploughing through the steaming maize in the sultry heats of June, or bared to the waist and with deft hand mowing down the yellow grain, or trudging homeward in the dusky twilight after the day's work is done—always and every where they are singing and happy, happy in being free from all mental cares or troubles, and singing heartily and naturally as the birds sing, which toil not nor do spin. Their songs are usually wild and indescribable, seeming to be mere snatches of song rather than any long continuous effort, but with an often recurring chorus, in which all join with a depth and clearness of lungs truly wonderfuL No man can listen to them, be his ear ever so cultivated, particularly to their corn-husking songs, when the night is still and the singers some distance off, without being very pleasantly entertained. But the wildest and most striking negro song we think we ever listened to, we heard while on board an Alabama river steamboat. We were steaming up from Mobile on a lovely day in the early winter, and came in sight of Montgomery just as the heavens were all a-glow with the last crimson splendors of the setting sun, and while the still shadows of evening seemed already to be stealing with noiseless tread along the hollows in the steep riverbanks, creeping slowly thence with invisible footsteps over the placid surface of the stream itself. A lovelier day or a more bewitching hour could not well be imagined. As we began to near the wharf, the negro boatmen collected in a squad on the bow of the boat, and one dusky fellow, twirling his wool hat above his head, took the lead in singing, improvising as he sang, all except the chorus, in which the whole crew joined with enthusiasm. And O Madame Jenny Goldschmidt, and Mademoiselle Piccolomini! we defy you both to produce, with the aid of many orchestras, a more soulstirring strain of melody than did those simple Africans then and there ! The scene is all before us now—the purple-tinted clouds overhead—the dim shadows treading noiselessly in the distance—the gleaming dome of the State Capitol and the church-spires of Montgomery —the almost perfect stillness of the hour, broken only by the puff, puff of the engine and the wild music of the dusky boatmen—and above all, the plump, well-defined outlines of some sable Sally, who stood on the highest red cliff near the landing-place, and, with joy in her heart and a tear in her eye no doubt, (we hadn't any opera-glass with us,) waved a flaming bandanna with every demonstration of rejoicing at the return of her dusky lover, whom we took to be our sooty improvisatore, from the glow which mantled his honest countenance, and the fervor with which he twirled his old wool hat in response to the fair one's signal.

LINK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 11:43 AM

re: McBRIDE'S MAGAZINE, VOL. "Songs of the Slave."

For many years the steamboats on Western and Southern rivers were, almost without exception, manned by crews of negro slaves.

OK, that helps us with ideas of borrowing/exchange. Here we could call the boatmen's music as essentially "Black music," no?

the alternation of very hard labor and absolute idleness.

Sounds like a sailing ship!

Nine-tenths of the " river songs" (to give them a name) have the same refrain, and nearly all were constructed of single lines, separated by a barbarous and unmeaning chorus....as a general rule the steamboat songs were tiresomely similar to the one just given.

Hence all the "O! O! O!" we've been seeing. While I have tagged several of the past song-texts seen as SAILOR FIREMAN, it may be that they just share a very *similar* refrain.

The leader would mount the capstan as the steamer left or entered port,

Capstan shanty!

and affect to sing the solo part from a scrap of newspaper, "the full strength of the company" joining in the chorus. The effect was ludicrous, for no imagination was expended on the composition. Such songs were sung only for the howl that was their chief feature.

That old "extempore" quality. And cf. Hugill's notes on the chorus of "Blackball Line," for example. He talks about the variability of that sort of "howling" chorus.

I understand better, from this, the earlier reference to the steamboat leaving the dock, and the singing connected with it by the many hands.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 11:53 AM

re: SOCIAL RELATIONS IN OUR SOUTHERN STATES.

Their songs are usually wild and indescribable, seeming to be mere snatches of song rather than any long continuous effort, but with an often recurring chorus, in which all join with a depth and clearness of lungs truly wonderful.

OK, this description is now typical. But if shanties were by then well known...and if shanties share some of the qualities just described...I wonder why these songs of African-Americans are still being described in such terms of otherness. It may just be that landsmen weren't familiar with chanties, either.

the wildest and most striking negro song we think we ever listened to, we heard while on board an Alabama river steamboat. We were steaming up from Mobile on a lovely day in the early winter, and came in sight of Montgomery...

The connection from inland, down to Mobile Bay.

As we began to near the wharf, the negro boatmen collected in a squad on the bow of the boat, and one dusky fellow, twirling his wool hat above his head, took the lead in singing, improvising as he sang, all except the chorus, in which the whole crew joined with enthusiasm.

I'm intrigued by this sort of parting song/singing that happens each time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 12:16 PM

Continuing the steamboat adventures... HARPER'S Vol. 41, 1970, in an account by George Ward Nichols called "Down the Mississippi". He is going down river from St. Louis to New Orleans.

It describes another "parting" scene, with more details.

At the hour appointed the lines were cast loose, and we backed easily out from among the crowd of steamers which lay at the levee... At the bow of the boat were gathered the negro deck-hands, who were singing a parting song. A most picturesque group they formed, and worthy the graphic pencil of Johnson or Gerome. The leader, a stalwart negro, stood upon the capstan shouting the solo part of the song, the words of which I could not make out, although I drew very near; but they were answered by his companions in stentorian tones at first, and then, as the refrain of the song fell into the lower part of the register, the response was changed into a sad chant in mournful minor key.

Standing on the capstan! There is an illustration, too. Scroll down one page at this LINK


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: doc.tom
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:00 PM

Re 'Sharp's Informants' as queried above, John Short (Yankee Jack) of Watchet went to deep-sea at 18 yrs of age in 1857 - He says he learnt Cheer'ly Man & Stormalong (come along, get along, Stormey Along John) on his first trip - he retired from deep-sea work about 1875.

His repertoire as collected by Sharp/Terry was: Mr. Tapscott (Can't You Dance The Polka): Hundred Years on the Eastern Shore (A Hundred Years Ago): The Blackball Line: Poor Old Man (O Johnny Come To Hilo): Ranzo (Poor Old Reuben Ranzo): Lowlands (Dollar and a half a day): One More Day: The Dead Horse (Poor Old Man): Heave Away My Johnny (We're All Bound To Go): Homeward Bound (Goodbye, Fare Thee Well): Blow Boys Blow (Banks of Sacramento): Haul Away The Morning Dew: Amsterdam (A-roving): Shanadore (Shenandoah): Paddy Works on the Railway: Old Stormey (Mister Stormalong): Santy Anna (on the Plains of Mexico): Blow Boys Come Blow Together (Blow, Me Bully Boys, Blow): Haul Away Joe: (Run, Let the) Bulgine Run: Cheerly Men: Tom's Gone To Ilo: Carry Him to the Burying Ground (General Taylor): Good Morning Ladies All: I Wish I Was With Nancy: Whisky Is My Johnny: Rio Grande: Whip Jamboree: The Hog eyed Man: The Saucy Rosabella: Knock A Man Down (Blow the Man Down): Huckleberry Hunting (Hilo, Me Ranzo Ray): Stormalong John: Tommy's Gone: Rowler Bowler: Bully In The Alley: So Early in the Morning (The Sailor Likes His Bottle O): Boney Was A Warrior: Hanging Johnny: Johnnie Bowker: Times Are Hard & The Wages Low (Leave Her, Johnny, Leave Her): Paddy Doyle: Fire! Fire! (Fire Down Below): Haul On The Bowline:   Handy My Girls (So Handy): Liza Lee (Yankee John Stormalong): Roll And Go (Sally Brown): Do Let Me Go: Shallow Brown: He Back, She Back (Old Moke): Round the Corner Sally: The Bully Boat (Ranzo Ray): Lucy Long: The Bull John Run (Eliza Lee): Would You Go My Way: Billy Riley: Sing Fare You Well:

What we have realised, while recording the repertoire, is that many of his versions seem closely akin to stevedore (Mobile?) chants rather than to the later, more shantified versions, generally given by Hugill.

Interesting! - great thread.

TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:08 PM

There is a work of fiction, THE ARK OF ELM ISLAND by Elijah Kellogg (1869), which nonetheless can give a sense of what work-singing was like prior to that time. And because the songs he cites can be traced to songs we know today, there is good reason to consider them to represent actual songs with which the author was familiar (save for, perhaps, incidental verse-section lyrics). According to the scholarship of Charlie Ipcar, Kellogg, born in Portland ME, went to sea roughly between 1828 and 1835. That he maintained a connection with the seafaring world is evidenced by him becoming pastor for the Mariner's Church in Boston from 1854-1866. He could have learned the chanties in his story at any time up to its publication date, one supposes.

With this disclaimer in place, I am warning that I will be treating the text as containing valid references to what went on in chantey-singing prior to 1869. Note, however, that the author still does not refer to the songs as "chanties."

We have already spoken of the natural disposition of the negro to sing when at work. Their songs have no merits of composition, being the merest trash. Neither does the negro think it necessary that they should rhyme, — they may or may not, — or that there should be the same number of feet. He will have the time correct, as he will leave out or prolong words at pleasure, with the most sovereign contempt, both of sense and tho king's English.

Continually amazed how these authors, in one breath, can trash the songs but also say they are wonderfully "plaintive," etc.

Songs of labor seem to meet a universal necessity, and supply a common want. They are in use to lighten labor, from the boatmen among the loch of Scotland to the seamen of the tropics, and ac. complish this by securing unity of action.

Suppose eight men undertook to hoist a weight which it required all their strength to raise. If each pulled separately, it would bo just the same as though only one man was pulling at the weight. No matter how many of them were pulling, it would never be raised; but the song unites all their efforts, and the more accurately they observe the time of the song, and connect their efforts with it, the lighter the labor, and the greater the economy of strength. The song also renders labor pleasurable, for there is a love of it in human nature, and, by furnishing regular periods for breathing, renders labor less fatiguing.
How much more tiresome it is to pull a boat with muffled oars, because you miss the click of the oar in the rowlocks! Who could thresh all day if the flails did not make a noise as they strike the grain? The cooper beats out a tune as he drives the hoop. What weariness comes over the soldier on a march when the music stops! and how instantly his muscles are braced when it strikes up!


A general statement on work-songs.

The songs of the negro seamen generally refer to their labor—hoisting or stowing molasses, or screwing cotton, which is severe labor, where unity of effort is of the first importance; and here the negro's accurate ear renders them most effective, and they will accomplish more, with less fatigue to themselves, than white men. No matter how many of them are on a rope, their pull tallies precisely with the time of the song, and they will put in the queerest quirks and quavers, but all in time. Perhaps there may be one negro in a million who has no idea of time. If such a one gets hold of the rope, and makes a false pull, it affects them as much as a false note would a well-drilled choir. They will instantly hustle him out, crying,—

" Get away, you waw, waw nigger! You dunno how to pull!"


The preceding underscores my argument that chanties of this period were a sort of new technology -- perhaps a newer method of working that was "imported" from the practices among African-Americans. Also mentioned are the "quirks and quavers" that Hugill would later ascribe to sailors' singing generally and Black singers especially. It continues...

These songs produce the most singular effect upon the negroes, insomuch that they seem hardly conscious of fatigue, even while exerting themselves to the utmost. Wages have been paid to a negro for merely singing when a large cargo of molasses was to be discharged in a hurry, the extra labor which he excited the rest to perform being considered as more than an equivalent for his wages, while it prevented a rival from obtaining his services.

Paid just for singing, indeed. An anecdote follows.

A singular illustration of this was given many years ago in Portland, Maine. Eight negroes were hoisting molasses, one very hot day, aboard the brig William. They were having a lively time. Old Craig, a distinguished singer, was opening his mouth like an old-fashioned fallback chaise. A negro, — an agent for the Colonization Society, — very black, dressed in white linen trousers and coat, Marseilles vest, ruffle-bosomed shirt, nice beaver on his head, with a bundle of papers in his hand, came down the wharf, and went into a merchant's counting-room to collect a subscription. As he came out, his ear caught the tune.

He instantly came on board the vessel and listened. He grew nervous, imitated the motions of those at the tackle, and, by and by, off went the linen coat, the hat and papers were laid aside, he rushed among the rest, and, clutching the rope, like a maniac, began to haul, and sing,—

"Eberybody he lub someting;
Hoojun, John a hoojun.
Song he set de heart a beating;
Hoojun, John a hoojun."

When reeking with perspiration, he stopped: the white pants, vest, and ruffled bosom were spoiled. As he went up the wharf, casting many a rueful glance at his dress, Old Craig, looking after him, exclaimed,—
" No use put fine clothes on de 'possum! What bred in de bone, dat come out in de meat."


The stevedores' song can only be what Hugill called "Hooker John." It's my personal opinion --open to lots of debate-- that the "hooker" neé "hoojun" referred to a "hoosier," a stevedore or something of that sort.

The leader sings the principal part of the song (often composing it as he goes along), while the others sing the chorus.

When the winch was introduced to discharge vessels, these songs in the northern seaports ceased, the negroes disappeared, and Irishmen took their places, the negroes refusing to work with a winch, because that kind of labor did not admit of singing.


While this work of fiction is set in the late 18th century (!), the author seems to be referring to something that actually happened more recently. The beginning of the end of chanteying?

The clank of the pawls on the ship's windlass was now heard.
" Man the windlass!" was the order.
"Slip, slap!" cried Seth. This is a sailor phrase for heaving the windlass around at one motion instead of two, as is generally practised, and as was done on board the ship.
The ship possessed the advantage at the outset of being ahead of the Ark; but, as the crew of the latter weighed their anchor in half the time, the two vessels were now abreast.
" Massa Mate," said Flour, taking that officer aside, " if you want dese niggers to show you de time o' day, jes' praise 'em, and let 'em hab de music. Black man he lub song; song make him throw hisself, tear hisself all to pieces."
The English sailors now began to sing.
"Stop that!" said the captain. "None of that noise here."
" Now, boys," said the mate, patting Isaiah on the shoulder, " give us a shout that'll raise the dead."


Without the context, the above will make little sense, but I include it to show the notions being put for -- that being that the English sailors of whatever time period is being evoked (!) were alleged to frown upon chanteying, whereas the Americans, with their Black crew to assist, were allegedly more practical, and by accepting the practice of chanteying, they gain advantage.

ISAIAH'S SONG.

" Wind blow from de mountain cool,
      O, stow me long.
Mudder send me to de school;
      Stow me long, stow me.
Den I stow myself away,
      O, stow me long.
Way, way to de Isle ob May;
      Stow me long, stow me.
Go ashore to see de town,
      O, stow me long.
Hear de music, walk aroun';
      Stow me long, stow me.
Dere I hear Miss Dinah sing,
         O, stow me long.
Washin' linen at de spring.
Double Chorus. —Ha-a, stow me long,
Stow me long, stow me.

Straight I lub Miss Dinah Gray,
      O, stow me long.
Dinah lub me, so she say;
      Stow me long, stow me.
Get her necklace, get her ring,
      O, stow me long.
Happy nigger, shout and sing;
    Stow me long, stow me.
Wind a blowin' fresh and free,
      O, stow me long.
Vessel ready for de sea;
      Stow me long, stow me.
See de tear in Dinah's eye,
         O, stow me long.
Berry sorry see her cry.
Double Chorus. — Ha-a, stow me long
      Stow me long, stow me.

Tink ob Dinah ebery day,
      O, stow me long.
Wishin' ob de time away;
      Stow me long, stow me.
Buy her gown, buy her fan,
      O, stow me long.
Dinah lub anudder man;
      Stow me long, stow me.
Wish I hadn't been a fool,
       O, stow me long.
Neber run away from school.
Double Chorus. — Ha-a, stow me long,
Stow me long, stow me."

At intervals they would unite in one universal shout on the double chorus. Then Isaiah, bringing the flat of his foot down to advertise them of what was coming, came out on the word " ha-a" with a guttural so purely African, that the negroes would jump from the deck.


STORMY, at the windlass. It's tempting to speculate whether "Stormy" was originally a mishearing of "stow me" (i.e. stowing cotton). However, the earlier texts we've seen are consistent with "stormy".

But it was most amusing to watch the effect of the song upon Flour, who was plucking some chickens at the galley for a stew. His body swayed back and forth, and he pulled out the feathers to the time of the tune, tearing the skin in all directions...
At length he could contain himself no longer, and, having put his chicken in the pot, rushed among his black friends, and gave vent to his emotions in song.

FLOUR'S SONG.

" De blue-bird robbed de cherry-bird's nest,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
He robbed her nest, and brake her rest,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
Cherry-bird chirp, and cherry-bird cry,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
Cherry-bird mourn, cherry-bird die,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
De black cat eat de blue-bird now,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
He catch him sittin' on de bough,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
He nip his head, he tear his breast,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
Pay him for de cherry-bird's nest,
      Hilo, boys, a hilo.
De gard'ner shoot de ole black cat,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
Den rJat make it tit for tat,
       Hilo, boys, a bilo.
De gard'ner pull him down de tree,
       Hilo, boys, a hilo.
Den dat square de yards, you see,
    Hilo, boys, a hilo."


HILO BOYS.

continued...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:22 PM

continued...

Bathed in perspiration, smoking like race horses, and wild with excitement, they struck up a still quicker tune, intermingling with the words most singular yells and quavers.
"That's the time of day, my lads!" shouted the mate, catching hold of the warp, and joining in the chorus, completely carried away by the common impulse. " That's a bully song!" he cried; " you are worth your weight in gold."

The negroes instantly manifested their appreciation of the compliment by exclaiming, —
" Gib it to her, hand ober hand! Isaiah, dat tell de story dat make de chile cry!"

"HAND OBER HAND" SONG.

"Cuffee stole my bacca,
   Hand ober hand, O.
      Scratch him,
   Hand ober hand, O.
Put it in his pocket,
   Hand ober hand, O.
    Kick him,
   Hand ober hand, O.
Now he's gwine to smoke ii,
   Hand ober hand, O.
    Bite him,
Hand ober hand, O."

The excitement now mastered Captain Rhines and his friend, who both added their efforts. By reason of so much additional strength, the Ark went ahead faster than they could gather in the slack.

" Walk away with it, my boys," said the captain; and, taking the warp on their shoulders, they walked along the deck, still keeping step to the song.

WALKING SONG.

" Take de line, an' walk away,
    Ho-o; ho, ho, ho.
Gwine to leabe you; cannot stay,
    Fire down below.
Gwine to leabe you, Johnny Bull,
    Ho-o; ho, ho, ho.
'Cause yer dunno how ter pull,
    Fire down below.
Like as do dis Yankee crew,
    Ho-o; ho, ho, ho.
Warpin' ob de ballahoo,
    Fire down below."


The last song, being used as a walk-away, is none other than the steamboat song, SAILOR FIREMAN.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 01:50 PM

Later on in THE ARK OF ELM ISLAND, there is an exchange that includes shanties.

"Why can't we have a song?" said John. " Charlie is a first-rate singer; he can read music; and Isaac can sing, too. He's been three winters to singing-school; and I and Fred can sing the chorus."
" I don't know any song," said Charlie. " All I can remember is, —

" 'Was ever you in Aberdeen,
Bonny laddie, Highland laddie,
To see the duke in his Highland green,
My bonny Highland laddie ?'"


HIGHLAND LADDIE. Incidentally, in all the references to this song, I don't think we've yet seen the Scots form "hieland." Though that was presumably the "original," perhaps it was that ~American~ chantey singers simply said "highland," and that "hieland" is a later affectation (or a form used by northern British sailors, of course).

"I can learn you Flour's cherry-bird song," [i.e. HILO BOYS] said Isaac. They sat down on the hen-coop, and Isaac repeated the song till Charlie had it by heart. He then hummed over the tune till Charlie got that, and sung one verse.
"That's it," said Isaac; "that's the time. Now let's make believe get under way. John, go up and loose the main-topgallant sail. I'll get a snatch-block, so that one can take in the slack, and we'll have a song, and hoist it up."

Fred took in the slack, and they soon made Elm Island ring with, —

" Hilo, boys, a hilo."

" If you don't look out, Ben," said Joe, " these boys will heave the anchor up, or cut the cable, and run away with your brig. They have got the topgallant sails and royals hoisted up and sheeted home already."


So while earlier HILO BOYS occurred while the windlass was being operated, here they imply it is for halyards.

Boys never know when to stop when they once get excited ; for what one can't think of another can.
"Let us loose the main-topsail," cried John, "then we can have a longer song. This is too short a hoist."
" We can't furl it," said Charlie. " Ben will furl it for us."
" We can't hoist it — can't begin to."
" Yes, we can," said Isaac; " for we can take it to the capstan."
"O, that will be bully! I know a capstan song."

" 'Heave and she goes, stamp and she goes;
Chorus. — O, my poor sailor-boy, heave and she goes.'"

Sounds like a very old-fashioned capstan song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:02 PM

TomB, I really appreciate that information on John Short. Can we assume that he learned all of his songs while he was at sea, between 1857 and 1875? And do we have dates when Sharp actually took down his songs? I assume that happened before the 1915 publication of Sharp's collection. There's a forty year period between the end of Short's sea-going days and the Sharp's publication. Is it possible that Short might have picked up some of his songs after his retirement from the sea?

What I'm getting at is this. If we actually knew that he learned all of these songs before 1875, we have a clear historical marker for the development of these chanties. This would go with Whall's dates of 1861-1872 for being at sea. The same questions apply to Whall. Did he learn all of his songs between 1861 and 1872? The next collection would be *some* of Harlowe's chanties in 1877. Using the period of 1872-1877 for a marker, we actually have documentation for a substantial number of chanties in use by that point. If we could pin down Maitland and Robinson to a cut off point, this would reinforce our position on this.

I realize that 1875 is not as early as some of us would like, but as a clear and concrete historical marker, I think that it's important.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:07 PM

TomB --

That's great info! I'm going to be bold and "file" Cheer'ly Man & Stormalong under "c.1857-58," based on Short's account.

John M--

Thanks for that lay-out of the issue of dating that comes up in this time. The dates of when these individuals sailed, recorded by you, Lighter, Charley, TomB, Snuffy, and others, is very useful info to have at hand.

What I am going to suggest is focusing on the category of what you have called "Published mention" (i.e. as opposed to collections), and stuff that can definitively be ascribed to the 1860s, first, as a matter of practicality. The collectors' experiences, which span decades, can be retro-fitted later.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: doc.tom
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:18 PM

John,
Short first went to sea at the age of 9 with his father on coastal work - Bristol channel, Barry Island, Gloucester Docks - and even down to Charlestown in Cornwall. However, he told Sharp (all the collecting was done in 1914 - and Sharp published, including the shanties collected in last session in September, before the end of the year!) that the first shanties he learnt were on that first deep-water trip in 1857.

After he retired from deep-sea work he worked again in the coastal trade until 1904 (according to his last references).

As we know he was a 'professional' shantyman (not just a casual sailor who remembered a few) I am of the opinion that he aquired all his shanties during those deep-sea years.

(Incidentally, the Short, Sharp Shanties project should be ready to issue the (3) CDs in early 2011, but we've already started a list of people who said they want the set. So if anyine wants to pm me with an e-mail address we'll add you to it).

TomB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Apr 10 - 02:31 PM

I forgot -- one last passage in THE ARK

The voice of Isaiah came shrill and clear over the water, singing at the studding-sail halyards, —

''De cap'n's a driver, de mate is a driver,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
Drive her through de water, O, why don't you drive her?
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
De foam at our fore-foot, rolling white as de snow,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
We sail o'er de ocean, and we sing Johnny Crow,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
We're saucy to fight, we're nimble to fly,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
Like de fish in de sea, like de bird in de sky,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
For de Stars and de Stripes we hab fought wid de foe,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
Now de fighting is ober, we will sing Johnny Crow,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
De fair wind he blowing, nebber cloud in de sky,
    John, John Crow is a dandy, O.
We sheet home de royal, and we bid you good by,
John, John Crow is a dandy, O."


While we are not familiar with this as a chanty nowadays (at least *I* am not), possible relatives turn up in the reference from "Corn-shucking in South Carolina--From the Letters of a Traveller", 1843, above. It includes a song with the chorus, "John John Crow," and names another as "Dan, dan, who's the dandy?"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 01:26 AM

George Edward Clark, in SEVEN YEARS OF A SAILOR'S LIFE (1867) mentions several windlass chanties. The text takes us up to mid 1866, so the seven years (if continuous) must have started around 1859 -- or earlier (if not continuous).

Clark's second voyage, at around 15-16 years of age, took place c.1859-60 or earlier. It was in the barque GUIDE, from Boston to Zanzibar.

Down the rigging they leaped, and to the windlass brakes. Then as they felt the old emotion, that they were at every stroke of the brakes slowly parting their last hold on Yankee land, they broke forth in a chanting that made the sleepy crews of the numberless coasters turn out in quick time. " O, Riley, O," " Whiskey for my Johnny," and the loud toned " Storm along, my Rosa," woke the echoes far and near.

c. 1860-61, Clark sailed in a clipper ship from Bombay to NY.

When leaving Bombay:

The men sprung to duty; the anchor was lifted from its slimy bed, the men singing "Rolling River" and "Cheerily she goes;" the fluke of the anchor was out of water; the sails run up and sheeted home, and with a famous wind, the ship, with flying colors, left her berth.

Arriving NY:

The anchor came to the bow with the chanty of "Oh, Riley, Oh," and "Carry me Long," and the tug walked us toward the wharf at Brooklyn.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 01:50 PM

Lastly, from Clark, 2 more windlass chanties are mentioned:

In c.1865-1866, Clark was on the NASON, a fishing schooner (I assume?) out of Provincetown, sailing off the Grand Banks.

"Every man sprang to duty. The cheerful chanty was roared out, and heard above the howl of the gale. The cable held very hard, and when it surged over, the windlass sent the men flying about the deck, as if a galvanic battery had been applied to their hands. The vessel's head was often buried in the solid seas, and the men, soaked and sweating, yelled out hoarsely, " Paddy on the Railway," and " We 're Homeward Bound," while they tugged at the brakes, and wound the long, hard cable in, inch by inch."

Note that he uses the word "chanty."

That word is used elsewhere in the text -- in other contexts.

Here he is referring to stevedores, in Zanzibar:

A chanty gang was engaged to hoist out the cargo, and one of them in trying to steal hard bread, finding the bull-dog upon him, jumped overboard and swam safely ashore.......
The chanty men wanted biscuit, and waited to receive them.


So, "chanty men" and "chanty gang" had become a general term for stevedores.

In c.1866, is is about to leave St. Jago, Cuba. He notes at one point,

The Cubans have no real, go-ahead enterprise. The whites never perform any labor, but leave it to the slaves and coolies who do it all.

He is to leave on a Yankee schooner...

...when the sugar began to roll in, the crew found I was at the head of the rope, and a "chanty man." We rolled the sugar upon the stages, over the bows, and at every hogshead I gave them a different song. We worked hard all day, and generally had time at night to go ashore.

Clark, aka "Yankee Ned," was very familiar with chanties, then, and even refers to himself indirectly as a "chanty man" -- in this case, meaning someone who can lead chanties. He does put the phrase in quotes here, suggesting that maybe (though he doesn't define it for the readers) wants to mark it off as a particular usage.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 02:19 PM

In GARRET VAN HORN (1863), J.S. Sauzade refers to the use of "Sally Brown."

As the ship SPLENDID leaves New York, bound for China...

I began my sailor duty by heaving away at the windlass to the tune of " Sally Brown, the bright mulatter."

This sea voyage happens before the narrator become a soldier, in which he was shipped to the Kabyle War in Algeria, mid 1857. So Sauzade implies that "Sally Brown" was sung before then...but since it is fiction, we can only date the mention to the copyright date, 1862.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 02:39 PM

This comes courtesy of Lighter on March 10, 2010.

FIFTY-THREE YEARS MISSIONARY TO INDIA (1904)

On board the ship SUSAN HINKS, from Boston to Calcutta, 1862, Rev. Otis Robinson Bachelor ran a printing press. The contents of one published edition of his shipboard "newspaper" is described as follows.

In it we find good "Sunday Reading" and some amusing things; among which are " A Song for Raising Topsails," "Song on Sailing," "Song for the Halliards," and "Capstan Song." We copy as a specimen the "Capstan Song,"'with the editor's explanation that "as the motion is continuous, round and round the capstan, the object being to keep step, one or more may sing the melody and all join in the chorus: —

CAPSTAN SONG.

General Taylor gained the day,
    Hurrah Santa Anna!
General Taylor gained the day
    All on the plains of Mexico.

He gained the day at Monterey,
    Hurrah Santa Anna!
He gained the day at Monterey,
    All on the plains of Mexico.

Santa Anna ran away,
    Hurrah Santa Anna!
He ran away from Monterey,
    All on the plains of Mexico.

General Jackson's at New Orleans,
    Hurrah Santa Anna!
General Jackson's at New Orleans,
    All on the plains of Mexico.

'Twas there he gave the British beans,
    Hurrah Santa Anna!
'Twas there he gave the British beans,
    All on the plains of Mexico.


Although we have an earlier mention to the song "All on the Plains of Mexico" (1856), this is the first full text. Notably, General Taylor is gaining the day -- the ahistorical bit about de Santa Ana gaining the day (I think Hugill tried to explain it by saying that Britishers were in favour of the Mexicans) didn't necessarily come until later!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:14 PM

Horace P. Beck gives a number of 20th Century shanties from "the West Indies" in his "Folklore of the Sea" (1973). Some are clearly versions of old standbys, others are unfamiliar, at least to me.

See my addition to the "Rosabella" thread for a now familiar example.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:32 PM

Just wanted to log in this early African-American rowing song I found (discussed in the 'Sydney" thread).

From "The London Literary Gazette," Oct. 23, 1819. Setting, I presume is Maryland or Virginia. Rowing is referred to generally. The lyric is:

"Going away to Georgia, ho, heave, O!
Massa sell poor negro, ho, heave, O!
Leave poor wife and children, ho, heave, O!"

Compare to the "Sold off to Georgy" rowing song found in Hungerford, above.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:49 PM

The above excerpt actually appeared originally in James Kirke Paulding's LETTERS FROM THE SOUTH (1817) and was heard in the summer of 1816. I believe that makes it the 2nd earliest published mention of such a text that I have. The earliest I have is Lambert 1810 (up thread), which has, lo and behold:

" We are going down to Georgia, boys,
CH: Aye, aye,

To see the pretty girls, boys ;
CH: Yoe, yoe.

We'll give 'em a pint of brandy, boys,
CH: Aye, aye.

And a hearty kiss besides, boys.
CH:Yoe, yoe.    "

I believe that makes 3 reference to a similar rowing, so I am going to give it a tag, AWAY TO GEORGIA.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 01:47 AM

For logging purposes of the 1860s.... Allen's SLAVE SONGS (1867) has a song called "Shock Along, John." "A corn-song, of which only the burden is remembered." He gives a full melody, which is in call-response-call-response form. However, he only has words to the refrain:

"Shock along John, shock along" (both times)

The structure of the tune, in a major key, is exactly like most halyard chanties.

Could this be related to "Stormalong"? "Shock" suggests "shuck," was meant, since after all it is a corn-shucking song. [Is it possible that Allen didn't know the word "shuck"--he'd have called it husking?] It is attributed to Maryland.

The rhythm of the verse phrase fits the poetic meter of "Stormy he is dead and gone."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 02:15 AM

To continue the log, I'd like to quote Lighter, on 10 March.

////
Probably the earliest full text of "Shenandoah," from The Riverside Magazine for Young People (Apr., 1868), p. 185:

"Man the capstan bars! Old Dave is our 'chanty-man.' Tune up, David!
                              
O, Shannydore**, I long to hear you!               
Chorus.-- Away, you rollin' river!                                                               
O, Shannydore, I long to hear you!
Full Chorus.--Ah ha! I'm bound awAY
On the wild Atlantic!
                                                   
Oh, a Yankee ship came down the river:…
And who do you think was skipper of her?…

Oh, Jim-along-Joe was skipper of her:…
Oh, Jim-along-Joe was skipper of her!…

An' what do you think she had for cargo?…
She had rum and sugar, an' monkeys' liver!…

Then seven year I courted Sally:
An' seven more I could not get her….

Because I was a tarry sailor,--
For I loved rum, an' chewed terbaccy:…

Especially good because it shows the "early" existence of some now familiar verses, the combination of "Shenandoah" with "Sally Brown," and the previously unreported combination with "Blow, Boys, Blow"!

The anonymous author says he (or she) learned this and a couple of other shanties on a recent Atlantic voyage.

.....

As I walked out one mornin',
                Down by the Clarence Dock,--
       Chorus. Heave away, my Johnny, heave away!
       'Twas there I met an Irish girl,
                Conversin' with Tapscott.
       Full chorus. An' away, my Johnny boy, we're all bound to go!

       "Good mornin' to yer, Taspcott;
                Good mornin', sir," she said….
       An' Tapscott he was that perlite
                He smiled an' bowed his head….

       "Oh, have yer got a ship," she said,--
                "A sailin' ship," said she,--
       "To carry me, and Dadda here,
                Across the ragin' sea?"

       "Oh yes, I got a packet ship,
                Her name's the Henry Clay,"--
       "She's layin' down to the Waterloo Dock,
                Bound to Amerikay."

       Then I took out my han'kerchief
                An' wiped away a tear,--
       And the lass was that she said to me, [sic]
                So, fare ye well, my dear!

       Some times I'm bound to Africay
                Some times I'm bound to France,--
       But now I'm bound to Liverpool
                To give them girls a chance."
////

I like how "Heave Away" mentions "Henry Clay." That name will turn up again in another version of "Heave Away."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:36 AM

Here is another reference to "going to Georgia", which introduces the "Jenny gone away" song as well. The line is

"Oh! my massa told me, there's no grass in Georgia."

"Upon inquiring the meaning of which, I was told it was supposed to be the lamentation of a slave from one of the more northerly states, Virginia or Carolina, where the labor of hoeing the weeds, or grass as they call it, is not nearly so severe as here, in the rice and cotton lands of Georgia. Another very pretty and pathethic tune began with words that seemed to promise something sentimental -

    "Fare you well, and good-by, oh, oh!
    I'm goin' away to leave you, oh, oh!"

http://books.google.com/books?id=WaFiAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA128&dq=Jenny+gone+away&cd=2#v=onepage&q=Jenny%20gone%20away&f=false


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:44 AM

The last post was from JOURNAL OF A RESIDENCE ON A GEORGIAN PLANTATION, by Fanny Kemble, 1863, here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=w34FAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=journal+of+a+residence+on+a+georgian+plantation&cd=1#v=onep


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:05 AM

Here is "Jenny gone away" at a corn-shucking, from 1843, in THE FAMILY MAGAZINE, from an article entitled "Visit to a Negro Cabin" "(Extract from a Journal, kept by a Gentleman, who travelled through Virginia some years since.)".   

"Oh, Jenny gone to New-town,
   Chorus: Oh, Jenny gone away!
She went because she wouldn't stay,
   Oh, Jenny gone away!
She run'd away, an' I know why,
   Oh, Jenny gone away!
For she went a'ter Jone's Bob.
   Oh, Jenny! &c.
Mr. Norton, good ole man,
   Oh! &c.
Treats his niggers mighty well.
   Oh! &c.
Young Tim Barnet no great thing....
Never say, come take a dram....
Master gi's us plenty meat,...
Mighty apt to fo'git de drink....

http://books.google.com/books?id=cYAAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA244&dq=Jenny+gone+away&cd=6#v=onepage&q=Jenny%20gone%20away&f=false


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 01:07 PM

I think this is a reference from 1858 to "Hilo, Boys, Hilo". It is found in A CUBAN EXPEDITION, by J.H. Bloomfield, published in 1896.

http://books.google.com/books?id=WlhUsSH4QeUC&pg=PA282&dq=%22Hilo,+Boys,+Hilo%22&cd=6#v=onepage&q=%22Hilo%2C%20Boys%2C%20Hilo%22

The reference to the "execution of Colonel Crittenden in Havana", found on page 1 of Bloomfield's "Introduction" is documented here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=IropAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA140&dq=shooting+of+Colonel+Crittenden+in+Havana&cd=1#v=onepage&q=shooting%20o

Bloomfield says that his expedition set sail for Cuba seven years after this event, which would be 1858. A rather complete song is given by Bloomfield.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 December 12:08 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.