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BS: Scooter...FREE!
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Subject: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: saulgoldie Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:09 PM Ohboyohboyohboy. NOW there is FINALLY justice! NOT!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:15 PM This is what we'll have until we get all the Bible Thumpers out of government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: artbrooks Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:21 PM ...grrrrrrrrrrrrr - bletch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:23 PM I'm shocked! Aren't you? ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: bobad Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM Ah crap, I thought someone was giving away a free scooter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Jul 07 - 07:30 PM Well, he's not actually pardoned. The conviction stands as does the fine of $250,000 and he'll be on parole. Still it's sad that GWB saw fit to commute his sentence. Cheerily, Charey Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: GUEST,Ed Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:06 PM Was there ever a doubt this would happen? He took the fall, in return no time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:20 PM Someone else will come up with the cash, also. He is still a convicted felon on probation (wink wink). I doubt he'll have any trouble finding someone to hire him, even if he is disbarred. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: GUEST,Amos Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:29 PM Well of course someone will hire him. Who could ignore those impeccable credentials? He's a credit to the Jungbunde or whatever the branch of government it is he was working for... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: The Walrus Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:31 PM Who or what is 'scooter' (apart from a two wheeled form of transport)? Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:33 PM Google up our Scooter Libby. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ref Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:38 PM Worst. President. Ever. Actually, this is rather clever. With nothing to serve, the felonious little prick has no incentive to roll over and, since he can still appeal his conviction, he can take the fifth if he's subpoenaed to testify for any investigations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: kendall Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:41 PM And they wonder why politicians rank below used car salesmen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 02 Jul 07 - 08:49 PM Uh-oh! I guess this means the Capital Steps radio satire crew will have to rewrite the Scooter sketch they were going to use in their July 4th show. They were going to do a parody of "Chatanooga Choo-Choo". You know, the one that starts, "Pardon me...." Anyone know any songs about commuting that would make a nice parody? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: John O'L Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:08 PM Isn't this tantamount to an admission by Bush of his complicity? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:25 PM Tell me the truth. Is anyone here surprised? Really? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:44 PM "Worst. President" Nope. Worst electorate ever. Sorry guys but I just don't believe you any more. Haven't really since you voted him back in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Sorcha Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:56 PM No, Peace, of course nobody is surprised. Jim Lad....please remember that we didn't actually VOTE him in again. Let's just hope a new day is dawning.....if not, I won't place bets on what might happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:57 PM Did too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:57 PM Who the fuck is this "you" person, Jim Lad? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: JohnInKansas Date: 02 Jul 07 - 09:57 PM An MSNBC report on the commutation is at Bush spares Libby While the article doesn't say anything much that we haven't all expected, the choice of pictures for the article is "quaint," as it's not clear to me whether the writer/editor may have had the intent to suggest something. I'm trying to convince myself that there is/isn't a similarity to These two guys Nah, couldn't be. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:03 PM Where's Moe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:07 PM Jim Lad, you have to do the math. An awful lot of people elected Gore the first time (he won the popular vote). The Supreme Court elected Dubya the first time. Dubya scared some of the lower-IQ range populace into voting for him again in case someone else might not be able to handle this "war on terror" as well as he. . . . Yeah, well, anyway, considering this immoral war never should have been started and the people who voted him in were either republican zealots who didn't care or so stupid they didn't know any better, there were a lot of people who you couldn't pay enough to cast a vote for this ass. Those of us who voted against him are working hard to educate our diminished-capacity neighbors to not elect whoever he or his party appoints his successor. Get the picture? SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:09 PM July 2, 2007 A PROCLAMATION WHEREAS Lewis Libby was convicted in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia in the case United States v. Libby, Crim. No. 05-394 (RBW), for which a sentence of 30 months' imprisonment, 2 years' supervised release, a fine of $250,000, and a special assessment of $400 was imposed on June 22, 2007; NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, pursuant to my powers under Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, do hereby commute the prison terms imposed by the sentence upon the said Lewis Libby to expire immediately, leaving intact and in effect the two-year term of supervised release, with all its conditions, and all other components of the sentence. IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this second day of July, in the year of our Lord two thousand and seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-first. GEORGE W. BUSH ********************************************************* And Article 2, Section 2 states: Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments. The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session. ************************************************** These guys are slicker than goose shit in the rain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Dickey Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:12 PM Armitage is the confessed guilty party. Fitzgerald found out Armitage did it but ignored that while prosecuting Libby. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage acknowledged Thursday that he was the source who first revealed the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame to syndicated columnist Robert Novak back in 2003, touching off a federal investigation. Armitage told the CBS Evening News that he did so inadvertently. "I feel terrible," Armitage said. "Every day, I think, I let down the president. I let down the secretary of state. I let down my department, my family, and I also let down Mr. and Mrs. Wilson." In a column published on July 14, 2003, Novak, citing two senior administration officials, noted that Plame was a CIA operative. The column was primarily about Plame's husband, Joe Wilson, a former career diplomat and critic of the intelligence underlying the invasion of Iraq. Novak has never revealed the original source of the information about Plame. However, he has confirmed that President Bush's chief political strategist, Karl Rove, confirmed the information and was the second source cited in the column. Novak has said he would not reveal the identity of the original source unless the source came forward. However, he said Fitzgerald learned who the source was independently. Last month, sources told CNN that Armitage had revealed Plame's role at the CIA in a casual conversation with Novak. Armitage was not indicted by the federal grand jury that investigated the disclosure of Plame's name to Novak and other journalists. He told CBS that the special counsel investigating the leak, Patrick Fitzgerald, "asked me not to discuss this, and I honored his request." http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/08/leak.armitage/index.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: SINSULL Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:45 PM Shades of the Nixon years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: SINSULL Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:54 PM My favorite of the earliest quotes: Fellow 2008 hopeful and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards also blasted the commuted sentence. "Only a president clinically incapable of understanding that mistakes have consequences could take the action he did today," said Edwards. "President Bush has just sent exactly the wrong signal to the country and the world. In George Bush's America, it is apparently okay to misuse intelligence for political gain, mislead prosecutors and lie to the FBI. "George Bush and his cronies think they are above the law and the rest of us live with the consequences. The cause of equal justice in America took a serious blow today." Nicely phrased. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Rapparee Date: 02 Jul 07 - 11:43 PM What's Bush got to lose by this? He can't run again, he's a lame duck. The GOP will lose, though.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: mrdux Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:29 AM None of the Republican candidates wanted to have to answer the embarassing "Will you pardon poor old loyal Scooter?" question in public: they'd either offend their loyalists or they'd offend everyone else. With Libby's sentence commuted, my guess is the question is effectively taken out of play among the Republican candidates. W. takes the hit for it, but he doesn't care, and, so far as it appears at the moment none of the candidates has left any incriminating fingerprints. On balance, I think to the extent that the commutation insulates their candidates from having to even talk about the whole Scooter pardon question, the GOP benefits, although I suspect not by very much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:14 AM "Who the heck is this "you" person, Jim Lad?" ... Amerikay! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: the lemonade lady Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:43 AM I thougt it was a free scooter too! Actually here in the Welsh Border country the teenagers are given scooters in a scheme called 'Wheels to Work' and i think it's a brilliant idea. Sal |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:27 AM Jim Lad, when YOU use the word "you" in a message I take it that you are referring to ME and I thorougly despise George W. Bush. If you wish to express your displeasure with the Americans who elected George W. Bush please phrase it in such a manner that it is clearly aimed at the 51% who voted for him instead of at some non-existent homogenous "Amerikay". Trust me, the 49% of us who voted against George W. Bush do take it personally when you try to lump us together with our idiot brethren. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:33 AM Pity you can't aim that anger where it would do some good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: SINSULL Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:44 AM Time to combine threads? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: The Walrus Date: 03 Jul 07 - 12:20 PM WARNING: Thread Drift Re: Presidential Election (and who voted him in). Please forgive me if this is the wrong place to say this, but, as I see it, the problem lies as much with the American electoral system as the electorate. As I understand it, a simple majority of votes in a state delivers ALL the votes of that State in the Presidential Electoral College, to the winner, effectively dis-enfranchising the opposition voters in that State (with all the disputes that follow), which wouldn't matter if all the States had equal votes in the College, but, of course they don't. Perhaps the system should be altered to apportion the College votes per state in proportion to the votes cast with, say, an extra vote for the winner in the case of very close results within a state. Are my suppositions correct or am I missing something? Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 07 - 12:35 PM Well, I didn't vote for the little Bozo and his troupe of clowns, and not only that, I didn't vote for him twice! I guess somebody must have voted for him, but I, personally, don't know anyone who did. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 12:39 PM He won the popular vote. Funny how no-one ever owns up to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:35 PM Bush thought Scooter's sentence was excessive so he reduced it to no time in jail but left the fine and the probation. That's not a pardon. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending either of them but technically, Bush will not go down in history as giving Scooter a pardon. It just shows how sleazy these guys can be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Maryrrf Date: 03 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM I was disgusted but not surprised. Regarding Jim Lad's comments - okay valid point Bush did get a lot of votes in both elections, and that is not a good reflection of our society, but I am still convinced that there was foul play involved in both the elections. Now if the margins hadn't been very slim there would have been no possibility of manipulating the voting results so that the bad guys would win, but I don't believe everything was on the up and up. It IS a shame that so many of my compatriots believed the fearmongering and thought we needed a "tough guy" to protect us - bought into the "get them before they get us" mentality. I was so sure that he wouldn't win a second term and when I found out the election results I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach. This administration has divided Americans in a way that I haven't seen before - even in the days of the Vietnam protests. God I hope the pendulum swings in the other direction for the next elections. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: GUEST,Bartlett Date: 03 Jul 07 - 02:03 PM Bill Clinton and Butch Reno burned babies at Waco and nothing happened to them. Bush even pardoned Bill Clinton of all crimes he might have committed. When Hillary is installed in the White House she'll pardon Bush. It's just hand washing. And in 2-3 years you'll all love GWBush. Secretary of State Oprah Winfrey will host an Extreme Make-Over of Bush, and his crimes will be turned into vitues. He'll be the New Father of our Country and will have more entries in Bartlett's Quotations than Shakespeare. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 07 - 02:08 PM It may be where I'm located. Seattle. Eastern Washington is pretty conservative and there are a few small pockets of rabid Republicans east of Lake Washington (parts of Woodinville and Redmond), but most of Western Washington where I live is pretty liberal/progressive. After all, we elected Jim McDermott to the House of Representatives by about 85% of the vote (he's a long-time royal pain in the ass to the Bush administration) and went whole-hog for Senator Patty Murray, whose opposition to the Iraq war got her dubbed "Taliban Patty" by the Republicans. Senator Maria Cantwell got a rocky start in her first term, but has recently got her act together. Powerful advocate of energy independence and protecting the environment. And Representative Jay Inslee of the 1st Congressional District (check "Legislative Issues" on left) is no slouch either. All four are Democrats. I don't think anyone who voted for Bush would have voted for any of these folks. In fact, Washington is a "blue" state (predominantly Democratic). Yeah, about 50%, (plus or minus a razor-thin margin of questionable [suspicious] votes) of the American electorate is to blame for the snake's nest in Washington, D.C., but it's not really fair to blame the entire electorate for that, considering the vociferousness of the opposition. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 02:55 PM Lest any of you think me guilty of mindless needling, allow me to do some 'splainin'. You voted for George Bush and he is doing exactly what you asked of him. You all say that you did not vote for him personally and that his majority was slim if he had one at all. Not one of you has tried to do one single thing to oust this administration in spite of two unjustified wars, the deaths of three thousand people in a terrorist attack, three thousand dead American soldiers and as yet, untold numbers of dead Iraqis. (All on his watch & all his fault) "I didn't vote for him" is not any kind of defense in this situation. You didn't stop him and if all are to believed, you certainly have the numbers to do so. Sometimes you just have to take ownership of your mistakes. Sorry guys. I'm sure you're all very nice people but while you go about apologizing for your country's shortcomings and do nothing to stop it, thousands are dying. As for waiting for the next President: What in the name of all that's good and holy makes you think that the next one will be some kind of a savior? Newsflash:::::: America is what it is today. Change it today or be happy with what you've got but please stop telling us all that you'll be nice again in a couple of years. I just don't believe you any more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Maryrrf Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:07 PM Most of us are not exactly in a position to take up arms against the government. What would you suggest we do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:16 PM Jim, We have had the same problem in Alberta--and I think y'all have too in BC. We have had shit for government for decades. Ask around and NO one admits to voting for the assholes, so I wonder how they got in. Ralph Klein was credited with solving our provincial deficit. Hell, he predicated the resolution of the debt on oil that was selling at about $17.50 a barrel. A few years later it was selling at over $40 a barrel. Yeah, Ralph. A grade 5 student could have solved the debt problem. Now, with oil over $60 a barrel, Alberta has a surplus of about $8,000,000,000. Yeah. However, the big three are still getting hit: Education, Health and Social Services. In as much as this seems to be a democracy of sorts, I can only assume that government is doing what the voters want it to do. I don't intend to get into it with our friends to the south (and northwest). They got what they voted for and now they can't do a damned thing about it. We are in the same boat to a lesser degree. The fact I didn't vote for Ralph--or indeed any damned conservative in the friggin' history of my voting life--doesn't mean I don't share the blame. It is democracy in action. At least I don't get thorwn in jail for expressing my views. That may change in the US, and with only his ears stopping Harper from being up to his shoulders in Bush's ass, it may change in Canada, too. BUT, tell you this: the fuckers better send more than a few guys to take me away to whatever will be the Canuck Gitmo, because one or two ain't gonna be enough. Keep well. In the words of Will, "All politics is apple sauce." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:33 PM Sorry, Jim, but that's just plain unfair. I campaigned like crazy in both presidential elections for my own candidates and against Bush, and I know one helluva lot of people who did the same, and I've backed various petitions to get the little twit impeached--along with everything I can think of to make sure the Republicans don't get in again in 2008. It's pretty easy for someone to sit back and say, "Well, you Americans asked for it!" Well, not all Americans did ask for it! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Stringsinger Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:43 PM Scooter may have been freed but the US Constitution is imprisoned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 03 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM Don, Many years ago I campaigned on behalf of Senator Eugene McCarthy (back in the 1960s). He ran again (half-heartedly) in the 1972 election. (Nixon won.) A good friend of mine from the US called me on election night at about 3:00 AM. He was four sheets to the wind. He said, "Once again the American people get what they deserve. But why do I have to keep getting what they deserve?" I guess the diference between you and many people is that you can sleep at night because you KNOW you did what you could. Sometimes, that has to be enough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:03 PM Everytime I read someone from England like Jim Lad bitching about America it just makes me want to laugh and say "Dude - You have a QUEEN !!!!!" "And PRINCES!!!" Ever considered cleaning up your own backyard first? Do I need to mention Ireland? India? Countless other countries? I've never voted for Bush - either locally or at the national level. And the majority of Americans haven't either. Get a grip Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:32 PM Wesley- I belive Jim Ladd is from British Columbia as Peace in his post implied but I share your general frustration with cross-the-board criticism of our imperfect and dangerous nation. Bill Clinton is beginning to look like a saint, compared with GWB. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM Thanks, Peace. You have the right of it. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." —Margaret Mead Well, sometimes that small group (or even a very large group) of thoughtful, committed citizens lack, by a very small margin, the simple numbers to bring that change about—at least in the first few attempts. What are those who blame all Americans for Bush advocating? That we who did not support Bush just don sack-cloth, heap ashes on our heads, declare ourselves abject failures, and give up? Not my way! And not the way of many people I know! To condemn all Americans for putting the Bush administration in office is just plain wrong, and it does a gross disservice to those who tried to prevent it, and to those who are working hard to see that a similar thing doesn't happen again. To claim that "you" (all Americans) are to blame for the Bush administration is unfair and disingenuous. It's easy for those in the privilege position of sitting on the sidelines (such as some citizens—but not all, of course—of other countries, who don't have the responsibility of participating in American politics) to sit back a smugly take pot-shots at Americans in general when large numbers of Americans have made heroic efforts to keep the situation from becoming what it became—but who failed most definitely through no fault of their own. Consider this: assigning collective guilt to an entire group of people because of the actions of some of them is cut from the same cloth as bigotry and racism. That's the same kind of thinking that allows those of the terrorist mentality to kill innocent civilians. They blame an entire group for the actions of a few. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:57 PM Peace pretty well summed it up when he said, "These guys are slicker than goose shit in the rain." Through a combination of convoluted logic and shear arrogance, the Bush administration has managed to stay within the letter of the law while violating its spirit on more issues than any other five administrations lumped together. A few examples: 1) Using the "war on terror", a purely metaphorical usage of the word "war", as a basis for assuming powers granted to a president only in wartime. I don't remember Lyndon Johnson using unauthorized wiretaps to fight the "war on poverty". 2) Staging an unprovoked invasion of a foreign country and assuming additional wartime powers. I believe the laws giving presidents special powers during wartime were intended to aid in defense against aggressors, not to aid in being the aggressor. 3) Using signing statements to effectively ignore provisions of laws passed by Congress. All the above are technically quite legal. They violate no laws. They merely disembowel the spirit in which the laws were written. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM Peace: We seem to disagree on all aspects of Canadian politics but as you say "It's applesauce". "English" is way below the belt. I was born in Scotland and as such should be considered a Scot. My grandparents & great grandparents left Ireland to escape poverty & the troubles and there is in fact, not one ounce of Scottish blood coursing through my hardening arteries. Now let me tell you a story. I was well into my fourth summer, playing the "Yellow Cello" in Cape Breton. On a break one night I was approached by an American patron who asked "What do you think of our new President?". After much convincing on his part that he had a genuine interest in the opinion of a foreigner, I agreed to answer the question, no holds barred and I still remember my answer........ "You don't have a President. This eejit won the position in court and that in itself is an assault on democracy. George Bush is currently travelling across Europe, insulting every nation with snide remarks and unfair trade practices thereby creating ill will across the world. He refers to himself as the "Leader of the free world", a phrase which angers everyone who is not American" I went on to explain that in my opinion, you've only had two great presidents in my lifetime. One was assassinated in Texas and the other was recently assassinated in the Press. I finished with this. "If the CIA does not take this man out or if those in power do not fabricate some illness in order that Mr Bush's tenure may be cut short then there will be a major catastrophe." He looked stunned and asked if I really believed that, to which I replied that you cannot declare yourself "Ruler of the Free World", treat every other nation with contempt and walk away Scot free. "There will be a major catastrophe". That was two weeks before the September 11 attacks. Sad as that day was, it was not entirely unpredictable. If a wee folk singer in Nova Scotia could see it coming then you bet your life that the administration could. I've often wondered if that fellow remembers our conversation and why he was asking. To my point. To say that the U.S. is "Insular" is to say that the Reverend Ian Paisley is having a little difficulty accepting "The One True Catholic and Apostolic Church". The person who spoke to me that day, expressed a genuine interest in what outsiders think about his President. You really, really need to hear what outsiders think of you right now and that can't be done if everything is sugar coated and smothered in politeness for you. As for my being in Canada... I touched on that in the "Which Irish Songs are Offensive?" thread recently. In one short sentence though; As a young man, I could not accept the bigotry which is so ingrained in the British system. Emigration to Canada was my least harmful option and one of the few, correct decisions I've made in my lifetime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Barry Finn Date: 03 Jul 07 - 05:59 PM So Jim you run off when you could choose to make a stand like US Americans you accuse of doing nothing who've fought against the likes of Bush & company & paint us all with one brush. You have a nerve throwing stones from a country that's not our own. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM I was young. If I had chosen one of the other options, I doubt that I'd be a free man today. Is that all you got from what I wrote? Come on Barry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 07 - 06:38 PM Barry is making a strong point, Jim Lad. You say you were young and so you ran, you ducked out. Presumably the conditions in Britain have not appreciably improved since then- why then, now that you are older, haven't you moved back in order to fight for what you believe is right? I agree with Barry. To sit there in your own little haven and throw stones at us for not doing all that you think we should be doing - when you did not, makes your opinions not worth taking seriously. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Greg B Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:08 PM I predict that the full pardon will come at the traditional time, the waning days of the Bush administration. It would have been too cataclysmic, too dangerous to Republican futures now. The question is, will Libby be able to delay the fine until such time as it happens, and will he get the quarter mill back when it does? Alternatively, will he get a lucrative consulting job for some PAC, with a salary which just neatly covers that expense? Once he's pardoned, he will likely be able to re-gain his license to practice law. Until then, he'll be a 'consultant.' Should be plenty of that work available in quiet corners during an election year. Ultimately, he'll be handsomely rewarded for having 'taken the bullet' for the administration. I'd bet he wasn't left for a minute to believe that he'd serve any jail time. This was part of a plan, with every contingency covered, and it hasn't played all the way out yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:11 PM Fair enough. Tell that to the thousands upon thousands of Iraqi victims' families. Tell it to the thousands who mourn in Afghanistan. Tell it to Saudi Arabia where the hijackers came from. Rustle up as many Dylan songs as you can cram into one set and jump down the throat of anyone who offers an opinion other than your own but don't dare do a thing about Bush and more importantly, don't ever say again that there's nothing you can do about it because it's not that you can't..... President George Bush is doing exactly what you elected him to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM Sorry Greg. We cross posted there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:37 PM Jim, I admire you greatly as a singer and musician. But in my post of 03 Jul 07 - 04:33 p.m., I believe I made my position abundantly clear. If you're under the impression that Americans are merely sitting on their hands and doing nothing, I suggest that you pull up google and type "Impeach Bush" in the search box and see what comes up. Take note of the number of "hits." In the meantime, here's an overview: CLICKY. And this, incidentally, is not the only effort being made. There is a huge bundle of law-suits pending against Bush and members of his administration, not to mention a storm of ethics probes and investigations. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:39 PM I'll do that when I get home, Don. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 03 Jul 07 - 07:40 PM Guys: DING DING Jim, I don't necessarily know that you and I disagree about Canadian politics. However, when you say, "President George Bush is doing exactly what you elected him to." I'd like to suggest that this back and forth would ease up in its tone were that to be phrased "President George Bush is doing exactly what he was elected to do." Ther may be at best a half dozen folks on Mudcat who voted for Bush. The people you are talking with ain't them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:35 PM Thanks, Peace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:41 PM Yup! I deliberately chose to phrase it that way. Whether you personally voted for the eejit or not, makes absolutely no difference at this point. The man is aiming at $100 per barrel and has absolutely no regard for human life and dignity. The days of washing your hands with a bar of "I didn't vote for him" bar of soap are long gone. Hence "You". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:42 PM Too many "Bars". Story of my life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bobert Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:45 PM Wel, gol danged... According the Washington Post today Bush made this decsion all by himself... So much for the Post being that "liberal rag" the righties love to say it is... Of course Bush didn't make this decision by himslef... What??? Do he think he is actaully the president, 'er what... LOL... President Cheney made this decision... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Sorcha Date: 03 Jul 07 - 08:45 PM Today's headline....'Pardon Not Ruled Out'. Who's taking the bet money? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:06 PM Oh- Jim Lad, you forgot to give us your travel itinerary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:09 PM I might add, fwiw, that the UK bears a certain amount of responsibility in the Bush affairs. In pre-war Germany, if Germans en masse had said: You can't do this!, their government would have had to back down. If Blair had said to Bush: You can't do this!, guess what? So Jim Lad, you have a project laid out for you; I'm sure you won't hesitate, because you already know what has to be done and that you're just the one to do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:20 PM Sorry if this has already been posted, but I think everyone should listen to Keith Olbermann on Countdown, tonight, on MSNBC...you may watch and listen HERE. You can read some of the text HERE, but not the whole thing. WOW is all I can say! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Sorcha Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:31 PM When in the course of human events.......is it time? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: JohnInKansas Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:46 PM Does anyone find it slightly ironic that for the most part those who applaud this commutation of sentence for Libby are the same ones who killed the attempt to provide any kind of reasoned control of immigration on the sole premise: ANY AMNESTY FOR CRIMINALS IS INTOLERABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE. ? Or am I just misreading things again? John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:54 PM John, you keep insisting on bringing logic to the table. It's becoming very annoying . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Azizi Date: 03 Jul 07 - 11:59 PM Here's an excerpt of Keith Olbermann's special Comment 7/3/2007 BUSH, CHENEY SHOULD RESIGN ... I accuse you, Mr. Bush, of lying this country into war I accuse you of fabricating in the minds of your own people, a false implied link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. I accuse you of firing the generals who told you that the plans for Iraq were disastrously insufficient. I accuse you of causing in Iraq the needless deaths of 3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors. I accuse you of subverting the Constitution, not in some misguided but sincerely-motivated struggle to combat terrorists, but to stifle dissent. I accuse you of fomenting fear among your own people, of creating the very terror you claim to have fought. I accuse you of exploiting that unreasoning fear, the natural fear of your own people who just want to live their lives in peace, as a political tool to slander your critics and libel your opponents. I accuse you of handing part of this Republic over to a Vice President who is without conscience, and letting him run roughshod over it. And I accuse you now, Mr. Bush, of giving, through that Vice President, carte blanche to Mr. Libby, to help defame Ambassador Joseph Wilson by any means necessary, to lie to Grand Juries and Special Counsel and before a court, in order to protect the mechanisms and particulars of that defamation, with your guarantee that Libby would never see prison, and, in so doing, as Ambassador Wilson himself phrased it here last night, of becoming an accessory to the obstruction of justice. ... Click http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19588942/page/2/ for the complete text of this POWERFUL comment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:09 AM Makes a guy wonder if he read Zola. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:20 AM I just posted the entire text of Olbermann's address in this thread. Fantastic. I hope millions hear it and do something! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: harpmolly Date: 04 Jul 07 - 12:33 AM kat...thank you so much for posting that. It was AWESOME. I've got a major case of the tinglies. Really good stuff. Happy Fourth, Molly |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: JohnInKansas Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:13 AM Use the "text HERE" link that Kat posted above at: Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing - PM Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:20 PM Let the first page load and then go to the bottom and click "Print This." Cancel the printer popup. You should have the complete transcript. (all 3 pages) Copy and paste to your WP of choice. (I generally Copy, then Edit|PasteSpecial|Formated Text - it works well at this site.) The whole thing is worth reading. ENGRAVE IT ON YOUR WALL, and read it aloud, in chorus with your friends, today, July 4, 2007. (Be prepared to explain it, perhaps, to some of your friends.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:20 AM Thanks Kat: Looks like this Keith Olbermann guy's been following me around and picking up some pointers. Ebbie: I'm having some difficulty following your last two submissions. Help me out, will you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Azizi Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:27 AM New developments in the Scooter Libby case: from: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/222342/4056 Judge Walton Issues New Libby Court Order by pontificator ; Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 07:25:36 PM PDT "It appears that President Bush made a serious mistake in his Commutation Order. As justification for invalidating Libby's prison sentence, he pointed out that Libby would still be subject to two years probation, a harsh sentence, Bush says (rolls eyes). Oops! As Judge Walton just noticed, it looks like Libby won't even serve probation, since, under the federal system, "supervised release," as it is called, can only follow an actual prison sentence. Talk about incompetence. Bush can't even get Obstruction of Justice right! New Court Order here (warning -- pdf): http://sentencing.typepad.com/ " -snip- Also, see this comment from that diary: Will the defense move to vacate the sentence, on the basis that Bush's clemency order leaves a part of the sentence (supervised release) in violation of the Constitution? IANAL, but it seems like the WH lawyers left Walton in no-man's land. While this seems to me to be WH incompetence, and not a brilliant plan on the legal folks in the WH, the bottom line seems that Bush is going to have to commute the supervised release, to avoid some crazy legal wranglings... by 2lucky on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 11:08:35 PM PDT -snip- In addition, here's an excerpt from an article about Bush's commutation of Libby's sentencing: LIBBY'S SENTENCE NOT USUALLY LONG "Though Bush calls the 30-month prison term 'excessive,' records show defendants convicted of similar crimes served jail time." By Richard B. Schmitt and David G. Savage,[LA]Times Staff Writers July 4, 2007 ..."Whether Libby would have to serve probation was in some doubt Tuesday. The sentencing judge in the case, U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton, said in court papers that it was unclear whether a defendant who had not done jail time could still be subject to supervisory release. He asked the lawyers to advise him on the issue." White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, speaking with reporters two hours before Bush made his comments, said the president spent "weeks and weeks consulting with senior members of this White House about the proper way to proceed." "He spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to maintain the faith in the jury system, and he did that by keeping intact the conviction and some of the punishments," Snow said. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-libby4jul04,0,6710317.story?coll=la-home-center |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Azizi Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:35 AM How is Libby commutation playing in polls? SurveyUSA conducted a quick, automated survey to gauge response to President Bush's decision to commute former White House aide Scooter Libby's prison sentence. According to the poll: 17% say Bush should have pardoned Libby completely. 60% say Bush should have left the judge's prison sentence in place. 32% of Republicans agree with the President's decision, compared to 14% of Democrats and 20% of Independents. 26% of Republicans say Libby should have been pardoned completely, compared to 21% of Independents and 8% of Democrats. Conservatives split evenly: 31% say Libby should have been pardoned. 35% say the judge's sentence should have been left in place. 31% agree with the President's decision to commute the prison sentence, but to leave the fine and conviction in place. Reaction to the President's decision may evolve over time. A Pollster.com analysis of the poll observes that "the commentary going into this action by Bush stressed the dilemma he faced between satisfying the base and further offending independents and moderates. So far, the evidence is that the action he took has failed even to please a majority of the Republican and conservative base." Posted by Chris Grygiel at July 3, 2007 1:34 p.m. Category: political polls http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattlepolitics/archives/117517.asp -snip- And, it should be noted that this survey was taken before Judge Walton issued his latest Libby court order. I think that news is likely to have some effect those poll numbers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:47 AM Molly, Jim, and John, you are welcome. I think it is one of the finest pieces I've read in quite some time. John, I agree, it should be engraved on the wall AND people should read it out loud and proudly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:43 AM Martha Stewart ought'a sue |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: harpmolly Date: 04 Jul 07 - 02:18 PM "He spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to maintain the faith in the jury system..." Are you ^&^%&^$$%$# kidding me??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:35 PM "Timing is everything" ..... or so they say. Yesterday, prompted by your benign response to a blatant disregard for the law by your president, I tried to light a fire under you. By coincidence, one of your own, a newscaster of whom I know nothing as far as his credibility goes, tried to do the same. Your response to me was predictable, fairly polite and aside from the "English" remark, pretty well above the belt. Today, the threads are bare. You all have some kind of celebration to attend and sitting by the computer is understandably, not on today's agenda. The rumblings over the "Scooter" thing have died down and tomorrow you'll all be back into your regular routines and this little episode will be just one more on a long list of grievances, destined to be forgotten. I glanced at this thread this morning, gave it a little thought and walked away. Where's the point? No matter what I or anyone else says, you are going to sing the same old song. "Don't blame me. I didn't vote for him." Something else happened today though. Something horrible by any standards but something that won't reach your living rooms because your news media doesn't see the point in weighing you down with foreign affairs that don't effect you. (Directly) It is however, enough to make me want to give it one more try. So here it is. There are three hundred million Americans. If the statistics are correct, 49% of you disapprove of your presidents behavior & 51% of you are okay with it. Your economy is in the toilet. Your reputation is shattered and (If our attitudes towards Germans are anything to go by) will remain shattered for at least the next fifty years. All of you who are above the age of reason, Black, White, Hispanic, Indigenous & Visible Minorities are responsible for what your government does. You are not oppressed by 51% of the population and your President is only one man. You Deified him when you swore him into office. That's your problem. You are responsible for the actions of your government and that is the way many of us see you. Today, I am tired of hearing "There's nothing we can do" again. Today, I have had enough of all of the excuses. Today, six Canadian soldiers were killed, cleaning up your mess in Afghanistan. Happy independence day! Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:37 PM "Today, six Canadian soldiers were killed, cleaning up your mess in Afghanistan." Canucks are there at the request of NATO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:53 PM To clean up the mess. The Hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Keep your eye on the ball folks. It's one freaky carnival show. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:56 PM Yeah. Over sixty Canucks killed so far. No end in sight. I do NOT understand WHY the political leadership does NOT turn JTF2 loose with instructions to deal with Taliban LEADERSHIP. IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS. Bloody war of attrition. And our kids are dying because of it. FUCKERS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: harpmolly Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:15 PM Jim: Do correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will ;)) but didn't the invasion of Afghanistan stem from the fact that Bin Laden was operating out of there, and the Taliban were supposedly sheltering him? I'm NOT defending it, but just calling you on your logic. As I understood it, Bin Laden is an *exile* from Saudi Arabia. Why would it have been useful to attack a country that no longer housed the 9/11 mastermind, rather than his base of operation and the government playing host to it? (Not that ANY of this bullshit makes sense...) Again, I don't support it, but I at least see the logic. Not to mention that if we'd focused on finishing what we started in Afghanistan rather than stretching ourselves thin in this whole Iraq fiasco, we might have created some sort of real concrete resolution. Sigh. One other comment, O Wise Sage. What sort of "action", exactly, are you proposing we undertake here? You harp on and on about our lack of action, but offer no suggestions. There are thousands of people working hard to see that Bush/Cheney/Rove/etc. are brought to justice through what channels are available to us, which aren't many due to the stranglehold they have on our country. And if you're insinuating we should be taking our country back by force, ooooh, yes, that's going to go over well. I can't think of a better way to guarantee these assholes a permanent power base than to create an uprising they can stamp out with martial law, giving them all the carte blanche they need to ride roughshod over what's left of our freedoms. Get real, or quit baiting us. Molly P.S. I know, I know...don't feed the trolls. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:45 PM I have to second Molly on that, Jim. A very wise person once said, "If someone wants to hand you a slimy slug, you don't have to reach out your hand and take it." Thus it is with your "you," Jim. I don't accept it. I assume that when you say "you," you mean me personally (and every other American reading this thread). Okay, you tell me that I (me, personally, since that's what the second person singular means) am responsible for the Bush administration being in office. Okay, I actively campaigned for Gore in 2000 and for Kerry in 2004 (I would have preferred Kucinich, but he was out of the running in the final race). I spent a great deal of time, energy, and money on both campaigns, attending caucuses, making phone calls, writing letters, everything I was asked to do, was able to do, could think of doing, or am particularly good at. What should I—and all my fellow campaign workers—have done that I didn't do? Where did we go wrong? What more could we have done? And now, as the 2008 campaign approaches, I am ready to do it all again. But since you seem to think that I (we) did it all wrong, what are your suggestions? And in the meantime, I am constantly in touch with (bugging and badgering) my legislators about various issues. What am I doing wrong? What should I be doing in addition to or instead of? Generalities are not good enough. I want specifics. Don Firth P. S. I hope you're not suggesting that we launch a bloody revolution. With an election in the offing and with Bush's approval rating in the toilet, I don't see that things are that bad—yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:29 PM Jim Lad, you said that you don't understand what I'm getting at. I'll be blunter. You are telling us to do something (although you don't spell out what. You know why? Because you don't have any answers). What I was trying to bring home to you is that YOU didn't stay 'home' to fix what you considered objectionable - or return home to do the same when you were older. Where do you get off telling Americans what to do? Short of waging armed rebellion - which besides having huge ramifications would be counterproductive- there is not a whole lot we can do that we are not already doing. As Don Firth said- which you ignore as being of no consequence - we are trying to wake up the people so that when the time comes there will be no doubt of where we stand. Until then, buzz off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: JohnInKansas Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:07 PM Azizi linked the new order from the judge, but omitted from the quote a comment at the site: "As a special bonus, make sure you check out footnote 1. Hahahahahahahahaha!" The pdf appears to be one of those "new-fangled" special feature things that blocks copying portions of the text, but my retyping of the "footnote" is: "1. If either party believes that it would be helpful to solicit clarification from the White House regarding the President's position on the proper interpretation of § 3683 in light of his Grant of Executive Clemency, they are encouraged to do so." In other words, fat chance the &#@% knows what he did or what he intended to do? I do not get the impression that the judge is pleased with this disposition, but I may be wrong of course. The entire constuction of the order seems ... "unctuously polite?" John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:09 PM I normally try to keep out of Political stuff in here , but feel constrained to comment in this case ! Jim - You are preaching to the converted ! There are a few Bush supporters on this site , but as a resident of UK , I get the feeling that they are a minority of Mud Cat Posters . So telling the Anti Bush people that they should be anti bush is a little bit of a waste of time . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:15 PM Thanks, Terry! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jul 07 - 10:28 PM Jimdarlin'...please don't speak to us in generalities. It's as if one of us said we wanted all Canadians to quite saying "eh?" at the end of each sentence! (Tongue firmly in cheek!) You are preaching to the choir. There are newscasters here, who list the number of dead from this horrible war and also list their names every night. AND, there are also newscasts which relate news from other countries, including Canada. Besides that many Americans get their news online these days where we have access to all kinds of other countries' news. My condolences on the further loss of Canadian lives and those of anyone else in Iraq. Each death diminishes humankind. I would prefer to see huge demonstrations in the streets here, BUT I do think it would play right into the shrub's hands and bring about martial law that would make the 60's look tame. For now, we work within the system. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: mrdux Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:59 AM on a lighter note: The Ballad of Scooter Libby (to the tune of The Wreck of the Old 97, or Charley on the MTA) Let me tell you a story 'Bout a guy named Scooter And this story it has a point. He was Cheney's lieutenant, Took a fall for his bosses And got thirty months in the joint. Chorus: But did he get to the pen? No he's out of the pen, 'Cause he's one of Cheney's men. He showed no repentence He won't serve his sentence And he sure stayed out of the pen. It was old Joe Wilson Told us Bush was lyin' When he said about old Saddam, That "he's buyin' up parts And we're sure he's tryin' To build him a nucular bomb." Then Dick Cheney said "We're gonna get Joe Wilson He can't talk about us that way. We can get at his wife, Tell the Wall Street Journal That she works for the CIA." When the FBI Came to talk to Libby 'Bout who outed Valerie Plame, Scooter wound up being Just a little bit fibby, Said he barely remembered her name. ch. Scooter was charged with obstruction of justice for his bits of dishonesty He was was tried and convicted He was sent off to prison Just as sad as he could be. But then W. said: "I sure like that Scooter And I do hate to see his pain, So I'll do him a favor, Since I am the Commuter." And Scooter walks free once again. ch. Now listen my friends All across the nation To the moral that ends this tale: You can break any law for this Administration And you'll never ever end up in jail. Final ch: And will you go to the pen? No you'll be out of the pen, If you're one of Cheney's men. You can show no repentence You won't serve your sentence And you'll sure stay out of the pen. Happy 4th of July. michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 02:25 AM Don: Before I reply to any of the others, let me say that so far you are the only individual with whom I have had any contact who is doing enough. In fact, if I was to say "Everybody, please do what Don's doing". that would be a sufficient answer in itself. Furthermore, If they all did as much as you, it would have been fixed long ago. Please, keep it up. Molly: The attacks were perpetrated by (mostly) Saudi Arabians. You have Bush's word that they were connected to Al Qaeda & were trained by Bin Laden. After 911 nobody asked "What do the Saudis have against America?" and still, nobody is asking. (This is where most took their eye off the ball) Instead they decided to launch their attack on the training camps and in so doing, completely unraveled the infrastructure of a society about which we understand very, very little. You never did find out why the attacks took place. The mission was granted approval by NATO and several countries participated in the destruction of Afghanistan. They were not your enemy and by now, have been all but forgotten. I'll ignore your last paragraph except to say... If your political representative does not have an office where you can march in and bend his/her ear then just exactly what kind of a democracy do you have? Ebbie: I could not live under the oppressive rule of a British (English) Government so I left. Fortunately, The Scottish Assembly & Gerry Adams have the matter well in hand, on both fronts. Problem solved. That's entirely different from your situation. Again, I'll ignore the last paragraph. Kat: Don't pull your punches so much. I'll still love you. As for demonstrations; by now you should be having so many that "Sunday" should be changed to "Demonstraday". This whole "Scooter" thing, just two days before the deaths of six Canadian soldiers is a disgusting insult to those who have just made the ultimate sacrifice to satisfy the agenda of your president. I'm giving you a view from the outside but I'm getting the sense that you don't have much of an appetite for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jul 07 - 02:39 AM Jim Lad, talk about being insulting! The 3500 plus Americans who have died over there are imo just as a great a loss as the six that you have lost. And let's face it: You have no idea of what the rest of us are doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:17 AM Ebbie: I acknowledged your losses, earlier. It is apparent from each of your contributions that you're either not reading the whole thread or that you are skimming through it. Take your time. Read it and give a little thought to your responses. I can wait. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Leadfingers Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:25 AM Is 100 posts enough for this ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: JohnInKansas Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:34 AM Foolestroupe - You know nobody here ever reads anything but the last page in these long threads. Now you've turned the $@#!% page and they're all gonna have to start over from scratch. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: GUEST,Barry Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:04 AM "I was young. If I had chosen one of the other options, I doubt that I'd be a free man today. Is that all you got from what I wrote? Come on Barry." Fuck you Jim, I was 18 when I went to prison because of my belifs & stand in the 60's & 70's against the Viet Nam war & civil rights, served 12 months for backing the Black Panthers, the SDS & what I believed in & still do. I will never back another violent move again & that includes War & protest. I do all that I can which is sadly less than some but happily more than many, I am of limited resources & have a family to care for. I DID MY TIME & PAID MY DUES! And I still fight! You little SOB, when you've done more come knocking at my door! Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:00 AM Have you learned anything at all? Violence is not the answer to violence. Here are a couple of things you could be doing. Any one of them would have put Bush & Cheney out on the street, years ago. Walk down to your constituents office and ask for 5 minutes of his/her time. Call in advance to make appointments. There should by now, be a half mile line-up (Queue) outside every office in the country on a daily basis. Compile a list of useful numbers such as politicians and news media and take every opportunity to call them. While you're sitting on a bus, train, out for a walk or whenever else it suits you. Always leave a message. Those who are organized, Buy some TV and Radio Advertising. Inform the general public that each and every day, at 11 o'clock am & pm, there will be a one hour work stoppage. Then do it. There are enough of you and it would take less than a month to be effective. Or you can just sit back and say "Hey, I didn't vote for the guy" while every man woman and child in every oil rich nation waits to receive a dose of your country's brand of freedom & justice. Barry: Maybe you should just sit this one out though. You're right. You've done enough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:13 AM Jim - are you following your own advise? What have you done to get your adopted county of Canada out of the war? You're excused from from any of the actions needed to get the UK out since you quit and gave up on them years ago. Please lead us by your example. Are you posting now while you're on your work stoppage? Every time you point a finger at the US there are three more pointed back at you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:45 AM Today, I'll be writing to the Political Forum on CTV. The political parties follow this one very closely. I'll also be writing to my representative "Gary Lund" to inform him of my change of heart. He is a decent man and will listen. Thanks for prompting me though. I needed that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:55 AM It seems like you hold yourself to a different standard than you want the rest of us to follow. No personal appearance at Gary Lunds office? It doesn't sound like you've very commited to ending this war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:15 PM The war is yours to end. I'll be petitioning the Canadian Government to end their participation in the clean up of Afghanistan. I have met Gary Lunn,(sorry about the previous spelling error) before. We both started out as Paramedics in extremely remote, high trauma areas with the BC Ambulance service. I put in fifteen years and he moved on to bigger and better things. He is now Minister of Natural Resources and has the Prime Ministers ear. The Prime Minister is on my list of friends in Facebook. I'll write to him there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:17 PM Now Wesley: What are you going to do to put an end to your country's misbehavior? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM You say "I will..." Talk is cheap. We are already doing what we can. I don't know about you, but I read every post of each thread I post to. It is you that is not listening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:39 PM What will you do today, Ebbie? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:49 PM Yes Ebbie - Jim's going to meet with his old buddie down at the local pub and share a pint. Then they will discuss something that they both agree about anyway. Then Jim will head home and send an e-mail to the PM of a country that he may or may not be a citizen of..... With standards like that set - how can we fail to surpass them? It's almost noon here. I feel a work stoppage coming on.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:17 PM Jim, you'd better lay off and give credit where credit is due. You are castigating folks who are already in the trenches and have been for most of their adult lives. We each do according to our abilities and it does no one any good for you to point fingers and come off as a pompous prat with a superiority complex. This is out of character for the Jim Lad I know. Makes me think there is something going on with you personally which may be causing a lot of upset. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 02:53 PM Yes there is as a matter of fact. Your president chose to display to the world that anyone who chooses to reveal the truth about his covert activities will be punished and his executioners are above the law. So far, one of you has shown a willingness to do something, one has given far too much in the past and the rest seem content to poke away at me, complain about their government and do absolutely nothing. Keep in mind that if you continue on your current path, your next president will in all likelihood, be just like Bush. Aren't there any more of you who would like to actually put a stop to it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:07 PM ...the rest seem content to poke away at me, complain about their government and do absolutely nothing. So you assume. Gross assumptions bring you no credence, Jim. As another Scot I know would say, "Oh for fuck's sake!" We've had angry non-Americans come in to castigate us all before. Eventually no one would give them the time of day let alone try to defend themselves against someone who sounded one note over and over and over again. With the attitude you've taken, I wouldn't even try to explain to you what I have done and continue to do. It wouldn't matter if I did...nothing would meet your "standards." That is the last I shall say to you about this subject. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM No takers then? Puts me right back where I started, I suppose. Just one final note from me... George Bush couldn't have done it without you. Well done! Regards. Jim Brannigan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:32 PM Yeah Jim - It puts you right back where you started. As a troll. Well done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jeri Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:39 PM He's a troll. One nasty little piece of work that embodies everything most hated in Americans: busybody, know-it-all little tin god telling everyone else how to behave. Sounds like Bush himself. One would think he'd be more contrite after electing a conservative prime minister Bush wannabe. Go away, Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Barry Finn Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM "Have you learned anything at all? Violence is not the answer to violence" DUH!! Thanks for that useless info that I learnd at 18 & have never supported a violent movement since. Including both Bushes, look back on my last 10 yrs here as a poster, I was born fighting & have watched better than crawl their way past more than you could ever run from! "Barry: Maybe you should just sit this one out though. You're right. You've done enough." You condescending 'little shit', that's your advice to someone's whose never stopped fighting. This past March I marched on Washington DC, dragging along all the steel nuts, bolts & plates that hold both my legs & feet together. "Piss off" Again, don't come knocking on anyone's door unless you've walked in their shoes 1st. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:36 PM Do they call him Scooter because he drags his butt around on the living room rug like a dog with worms? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:43 PM No, Rig. That one is Jim Lad. *G* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:46 PM Nice to see everyone getting along. Hope y'all are doing well. The blessing in Canada is that Harper is leader of a minority government. And his government will not be re-elected with the numbers necessary to form the next government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Azizi Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:53 PM mrdux , My compliments on your song {that you posted on 05 Jul 07 - 01:59 AM}. It needs to be recorded and widely promoted! I particularly like this verse: But then W. said: "I sure like that Scooter And I do hate to see his pain, So I'll do him a favor, Since I am the Commuter." And Scooter walks free once again. -snip- That's pure poetry! And it-and other topical songs-can be used to wake up the American Idol masses. As we used to say "Right on! But now maybe it's more appropriate to say "Left on"! ;o) [That's an inside USA joke and I don't have a clue which are the comparable informal designations for political parties in other parts of the world]. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:36 AM Ebbie, I love you, but that was really low and unworthy of you, imo, even with the *g*. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:01 AM Nice words, coming from a bunch of pacifists. This should serve as a caution to anyone that a friendly request for peace will bear no fruit here. Now I'll head off and listen to Lou Dobbs for a while. Must be nice having your neighbours to the North & South, afraid of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Wesley S Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:09 AM More assumptions Jim. No one said we were pacifists even tho I'm sure there are a lot of pacifists here. There's nothing inconsistent with being a pacifist in our posts either. You've stepped over the line and called us on the carpet without any facts to back it up. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I might suggest that you know something about the topic before you post next time. In this case you don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jeri Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:12 AM Jim, you're not as smart as you think you are. You've managed to alienate those who basically agree with your political views. You haven't earned enough respect to influence people here. You've actually destroyed what respect I once had for you, and you aren't worth the attention. Can we let the focus of this be something other than Jimbo's holier-than-thou attitude? I know I'm done with him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:14 AM "Now I'll head off and listen to Lou Dobbs for a while." Will his Mexican born wife be on again tonight?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ebbie Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM Well, I agree that my remark was over the top - but I just got this funny image of a human being - any human being doing that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:43 PM Funny? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 06 Jul 07 - 12:53 PM "...but I just got this funny image of a human being - any human being doing that." It might not be as funny as it sounds. I'm betting that everyone in the administration has worms. There must be some reason for them to act the way they do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Peace Date: 06 Jul 07 - 01:38 PM "for peace will bear no fruit here" Posted without comment . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: harpmolly Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:13 PM 'You say "friendly request for peace", I say "self-important counterproductive badgering", let's call the whole thing off!' Seriously though Jim Lad, I never intended to pick a fight with you, but your behavior *has* been rather trollish. When you rebuff every single attempt to converse rationally with the same answer, and won't give it a rest, what's our incentive to respect or esteem your opinion? An even more mystifying question is: Why am I bothering to respond to you at all? Sheesh. I'm going to go play in the sun. Molly |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Barry Finn Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:38 PM Run off now laddie! Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:42 PM Molly: You asked a sensible question and received an equally sensible answer. There really is no reason to join the choir. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Donuel Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:29 PM In a millionn years I never would have expected that Paris Hilton would end up serving more time than Libby. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Ron Davies Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:28 PM Scooter is small potatoes. It's clear we can't get to Cheney through him--unfortunately. And he may even win his appeal--especially if his side can establish that it was a question of memory--and that others--on various sides of the issue-- also had memory problems. So the other investigations should continue--and intensify---especially exactly how the--spectacularly successful--- propaganda campaign that resulted in the US public backing the war was carried out. The Bush regime--and Blair-- purposely misled the public--especially linking Saddam to 9-11 in the public mind, despite the lack of evidence--and predicting similar incidents, with Saddam supplying WMD--and refused to even consider contrary evidence. The more this is brought out, the less power, Bush will have--he's already the lamest of ducks. And we should also make clear that anybody who doesn't realize at least now that the war was a tragic, unforgivable, mistake--and never did deserve support-- will never have our vote. Stop wasting effort and agony on Scooter. It's not worth it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 06 Jul 07 - 11:48 PM HERE'S my last comment. *link fixed* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 07 Jul 07 - 01:57 AM Not one of your most memorable Kat. I got "Your session has expired. Please sign in". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:04 AM Oops, sorry about that. Try THIS ONE! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Azizi Date: 08 Jul 07 - 08:19 PM Here's some excerpts from this powerful Denver Post article: Bush justice is a national disgrace By John S. Koppel 07/05/2007 http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_6308408 "As a longtime attorney at the U.S. Department of Justice, I can honestly say that I have never been as ashamed of the department and government that I serve as I am at this time. The public record now plainly demonstrates that both the DOJ and the government as a whole have been thoroughly politicized in a manner that is inappropriate, unethical and indeed unlawful. The unconscionable commutation of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's sentence, the misuse of warrantless investigative powers under the Patriot Act and the deplorable treatment of U.S. attorneys all point to an unmistakable pattern of abuse... As usual, the administration has attempted to minimize the significance of its malfeasance and misfeasance, reciting its now-customary "mistakes were made" mantra, accepting purely abstract responsibility without consequences for its actions, and making hollow vows to do better. However, the DOJ Inspector General's Patriot Act report (which would not even have existed if the administration had not been forced to grudgingly accept a very modest legislative reporting requirement, instead of being allowed to operate in its preferred secrecy), the White House-DOJ e-mails, and now the Libby commutation merely highlight yet again the lawlessness, incompetence and dishonesty of the present executive branch leadership.... The sweeping, judicially unchecked powers granted under the Patriot Act should neither have been created in the first place nor permanently renewed thereafter, and the Act - which also contributed to the ongoing contretemps regarding the replacement of U.S. attorneys, by changing the appointment process to invite political abuse - should be substantially modified, if not scrapped outright. And real, rather than symbolic, responsibility should be assigned for the manifold abuses. The public trust has been flagrantly violated, and meaningful accountability is long overdue. Officials who have brought into disrepute both the Department of Justice and the administration of justice as a whole should finally have to answer for it - and the misdeeds at issue involve not merely garden-variety misconduct, but multiple "high crimes and misdemeanors," including war crimes and crimes against humanity. I realize that this constitutionally protected statement subjects me to a substantial risk of unlawful reprisal from extremely ruthless people who have repeatedly taken such action in the past. But I am confident that I am speaking on behalf of countless thousands of honorable public servants, at Justice and elsewhere, who take their responsibilities seriously and share these views. And some things must be said, whatever the risk". -snip- Editorial comment from the Denver Post: The views presented in this essay are not representative of the Department of Justice or its employees but are instead the personal views of its author. John S. Koppel has been a civil appellate attorney with the Department of Justice since 1981. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jul 07 - 08:14 AM "The more this is brought out, the less power, Bush will have--he's already the lamest of ducks." This is probably demonstrated in the extreme by Tom Tancredo, a member of the president's own party, who is now making the case the if it was a good move to commute Libby's sentence, the president ought to pardon the two border patrol agents who were convicted of shooting an illegal alien earlier in the year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Jim Lad Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:28 PM Ah Kat: That's all I've been trying to say but the poster isn't big enough to hold all of the names. Thank You! Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 09 Jul 07 - 01:57 PM "...the poster isn't big enough to hold all of the names." Actually it only needs to hold two names, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:48 AM Thanks, fellahs. I figured the two names I used are the most relevant for the times.:-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:38 AM Kat - You're right, but historians rarely seem to remember vice presidents. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM "Thanks, fellahs. I figured the two names I used are the most relevant for the times.:-)" Not really. If Ronald Reagan had been aborted in 1911, we would have to be suffering George W. Bush today. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:08 PM ...but historians rarely seem to remember vice presidents. I'll bet they remember this one. After all, most people who remember Charlie McCarthy also remember Edgar Bergen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: katlaughing Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM Oh, yeah! They will definitely remember THIS one! I can't believe my sister and brother went to the same high school! I sold a Christmas card he'd sent my mom, on ebay when they were running for election the first time. That's one I kind of wished I'd waited on...probably would have made more. No, my mom wasn't a friend, really. She knew him when she served as a senior rep. on the state law review or some such. I miss her, but am glad she has not been here to see what has happened with those two in office. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Scooter...FREE! From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM I'm inclinded not to think so. Remember Ronald Reagan--too dumb to pour piss out of a boot--all he ever did was look into the television cameras and read script off a teleprompter. But now historians talk about Reagan doin this, and Reagan doing that. George Bush Sr. did more as the VP than Reagan ever did, but he doesn't get credit for it, and probably doesn't want it. |
