BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco

Subject: BS: Tornado!!
From: Phot
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 10:38 PM

In about five hours time, a small bit of history will happen. A brand new steam loco will make her first mainline passenger trip. Eighteen years in the making, and costing £3.000.000, all from a good idea, and a few pints in the pub..............Bloody Brilliant!

Anyone up for a saturday club to get Evening Star back where she belongs?

Wassail!! Chris

---

There were two open threads on the same subject, so I combined them. When starting threads, be sure to give them a title that is readily understandable and that give a clear idea of the subject of the thread. Tornado! didn't work very well.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:33 AM

Here's the A1 Society website:

http://www.a1steam.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: mouldy
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:50 AM

I have just seen it! I was on my way home from a neighbouring village, and I saw something unusual go by the site of the Great Heck crash, and some pullman type coaches. Looking across the fields a few minutes later, I saw the magnificent sight a steam loco stopped at a signal. I flew back to my village, which is just about a quarter of a mile from the East Coast main line, and joined the spotters waiting for her. Luckily I usually carry a little camera.
I got some piccies, and it was a real privilege to see her. Pity she's not got her nameplate on yet!

If anyone wants a pic, such as it is, pm me with your email, and I'll gladly send what I've got. One or two aren't too bad!

I just wish my Ian had still been alive to see this day!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:31 AM

Was this the subject of a BBC documentary recently? If it's the same, I was hugely impressed by the dedication of the people involved - a magnificent job.

My great-grandfather was a driver on the old LMS Railway in the 1900s and drove the "Royal Scot" locomotives. His son, my grandfather, was a fitter in the Locomotive Works in Horwich (Lancashire).

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:40 AM

How lovely! To see something like that in real life would give me tingles.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Phot
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 03:37 PM

Tam, have a look on You Tube, there are a few vids of Tornado on her proving runs, just the way 1500 horsepower should look! Loud, proud and just bloody great!

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Fossil
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:37 PM

What a truly wonderful idea!

The little beach town in which I live was originally started as a railway town serving NZ's North Island Main Trunk line, which had its 100th anniversary recently. The railway still plays a big part in the life of the town and runs in a cutting at the back of my house. Every now and then the local steam preservation societies - one of which has its home in Paekakariki, and one a few miles away - run excursions on the main line and we hear the whistles blowing.

The thought of seeing a *new* steam engine on Britain's main lines on my next trip to Europe is very exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Bainbo
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:38 PM

We were going to a Mary Gauthier gig at Gateshead, and decided to make a day out of it - started by wandering down to the East Coast main line to watch Tornado come past. It really was magnificent. A whistle in the distance, then a light and clouds of steam, and then this beutiful apple-green locomotive, wth the old British Rail logo on the side flew past at 70-something miles an hour, pulling coaches marked Royal Scot. The old pullman type, with people sitting at tables. I think we'll definitely get our name down for a trip some time!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:54 PM

Sorry, "Paekakariki on The Main Trunk Line" just doesn't scan.

Peter Cape's Taumarunui on the Main Trunk Line

Looking at the NZ Folksong site, Cape must have written more genuinely singable songs about railways than anybody else anywhere ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:01 PM

Yes Will Fly, you're right, this was it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dzz5y

Subject: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:16 AM

I've started a new thread here as I think some people may be missing the other one on the same subject (Tornado) maybe due to thinking of the meteorological term!:

http://www.a1steam.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:23 AM

"Steam Loco"-----what a wonderful description of railway-engine enthusiasts ( like myself !! ).

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:47 AM

Aren't we ferro-equinologists nowadays?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:59 AM

Ferroviaphiles??

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:03 AM

Maybe a mod will correct the other thread's title and combine these?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:28 AM

The A1 site says "Download the A1's steam whistle as a ringtone". Just tried it out on my laptop - wheee, what a great noise! What a beautiful engine - just wish I lived in a more convenient place to get on board (and back). Now, if you could bring it down to the Bluebell line for a bit...

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Dead Horse
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:20 PM

Just think of how many banjoes they could have built with the money.
Thank God for railway buffs!
(I prefer the narrow gauge myself)

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:47 PM

She's good, but not a 9F, or a King .......Or Castle, or County! But thank heavens they did it!

I wonder how many banjos it takes to light up an A1? *g*

Wassail!! Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:07 PM

It is a wonderful achievement.I think they could have built a Leader class or another in the pipeline design!(Wern't there plans for a gas turbine loco drawn up sometime in the late 60's?) But it is a great loco.I'd love it to run up to Thurso ! Or I will find it when next off the islands.It would look good on the NYMR.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:21 PM

Well look at that. NYMR 1st to 10th May. I'll have to either see it at York in the Easter or maybe get to se it in the summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:23 PM

Kewl!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:28 PM

It's just the smell of steam, coal and oil that does it for me.

To hell with air fresheners, why can't they bottle essence of steam engine?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:32 PM

"Tornado" is indeed marvellous. No matter how beautifully an old loco is restored, it will still have honourable scars betraying its age. But the new A1 made me rub my eyes - it really is pristine, like a sort of mammoth Hornby model scaled up if that doesn't sound daft! I had the privilege of having a look in the cab and it's a combination of traditional controls and various black boxes for safety systems. And would you believe a No Smoking sticker.

Eric, there were three gas turbine locos constructed in the UK - the first one, 18000, ordered by the GWR from Brown Boveri, is still extant minus gas turbine and the odd wheelset. Saw it at Barrow Hill last year. 18100 was a later British (Metropolitan Vickers) built example - this was converted to 25KV electric and used for crew training. Scrapped unfortunately. GT3 was the wackiest, also the most handsome - it closely resembled a steam locomotive e.g. a Black 5, having coupled wheels, a tender and a single cab at the rear of the loco! It was I think made by English Electric and was also unfortunately scrapped. There was also the APT test train which had Leyland gas turbine power.

I believe all the British gas turbine designs, as with the American ones and others, foundered on fuel consumption issues (and the exhausts were pretty hot too - I heard GT3 couldn't be parked up with the exhaust under a bridge).

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:40 PM

Someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to bring back coal-burning trains?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:47 PM

Does it have a beautiful, soulful steam whistle?

I once took a ride on the Boone and Scenic Valley Railroad, which gives you a lovely ride near Desmoines, Iowa. Their locomotive was made in China, the last steam locomotive to be made there.

The Chinese had been using efficient, modern horns on their locomotives, and they were baffled at first that the BSV people wanted a bell and an old-fashioned steam whistle. But they finally worked it all out.

Meanwhile, congratulations on the Tornado.

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: 3refs
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 09:45 PM

I've been told that there is a thing called "Clean Coal Technology". Some say there's no such thing. Whoda you believe?

Subject: RE: BS: Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 11:05 PM

More efficient use of coal on steam loco's was investigated here, to the extent that a new design of loco for the UK was mooted:

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/wardale.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 02:47 AM

Do the kids look at it and say........

"Wow! It's Henry from the island of Sodor!"


An Engineman's son, I love the rails and the wonderful restorations we have here but to see an all new one................I'm kinda' envious.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Kampervan
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:19 AM

Michael

I don't think that anyone would advocate bringing back coal-burning trains dor mainstream transport. It wouldn't make sense for a lot of reasons, unless something very radical was done to reduce their envidonmental impact.

But the damage done by the odd steam train, going out relatively infrequently, is far outweighed by the pleasure brought to hundreds of thousands of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 08:35 AM

The ringtone on the A1 Society website is of a chime whistle, did A1's have them? I didn't think so, I thought they were the usual ear piercing LNER ones as on 'Flying Scotsman'!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Newport Boy
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 10:51 AM

Some details of the GT1, GT2 and GT3 gas turbine locos are covered here with a good photo of GT3.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:13 AM

"Someone please explain to me why it is a good idea to bring back coal-burning trains? "

Because, it was perhaps the one thing in the world that Great Britain was best at - and another answer is "because we can"!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 03:22 PM

Neither sounds like a good reason to me, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:03 PM

Re Jim's absolutely correct remark about A1s not having chime whistles, the Trust guys know this but they want one because it sounds great! I haven't seen "Tornado" yet this year so don't know if they've fitted it yet. They recently found that some white metal had stripped off one of the outside slide bars and have been having a few issues with the modern electronics - so I think they have their hands a bit full. This is why it's so important for people to keep supporting the Trust even though the engine is complete and running.   

Last week while scanning some ancient slides I found one I took of the last (but one!) A1 "St. Mungo" at Leeds City - taken on horrible Ilfochrome around August 1965. I was only 18 then - oh blimey!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Megan L
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM

My fathers first job as an apprentice in Springburn (Possibly the atlas works) was working on the train that was nicknamed "The diver" she was the locomotive that went down with the Tay bridge on the 28th December 1879. The engine was raised overhauled and continued to work for many years.

I like many people have a soft spot for steam locomotives and would delight to see it running.

In these days of dwindling fosil fuel supples It would be impracticle to have a whole fleet but for the skills saved and the pleasure gained this was most probably a worthwhile exercise

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 04:40 PM

Sorry folks, re previous post - they have fitted the chime whistle. See vid taken at Newcastle last Saturday (wow!)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1GBhRtPIHCE

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 07:58 AM

Coal can be a dirty fuel but it depends on how you handle it. At the end of World War Two the German airforce were working on using it to power jet aircraft as they were running out of oil. To do so they had to use it as a very fine dust, so a great deal of dirt if you spilt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 09:04 AM

Presumably the fine coal dust was blown into the aircraft's combustion chambers to produce heat and gases. Would it be possible to power a locomotive in the same way?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:51 PM

Presumably you could because a jet engine is basically operating on the same principle as a gas turbine. I remember reading somewhere that the GT's that USA had (burning liquid fuel) only reached optimum efficiency when they climbed to fairly high altitudes where the air (oxygen) is rarer. Again, that's how jet aircraft operate.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Phot
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 01:18 PM

To run a gas turbine/Jet engine (Same thing, apart from a ramjet) you mix coal dust in water to suspend it. The coal dust used has a similar consistency to talcum powder. Then it is injected into the combustion chamber, the same as ordinary Jet-A1, AvTur, AvCat, AvTag, or fuel of your choice!

Its just a 4 stroke engine with less rociprocating parts!

The reason you can't use coal dust in a steam loco, is that it will explode, causing a really bad day on the footplate!

Wassail!! chris

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 10:57 PM

Ed, thanks for the link to the video of Tornado coming into Newcastle.

how many passenger cars is that engine pulling!? It is a powerful machine.

Too bad about about the whistle, though. It's a boy soprano and I was hoping for a baritone.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Newport Boy
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 09:39 AM

Tornado is pulling 13 coaches (passenger cars run on the roads in UK!!). This was about the standard for most main line expresses in the 50s and 60s - most main line stations just held that length train.

Phil

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 11:25 AM

"Neither sounds like a good reason to me, Bonzo."

That's fine, but what is your problem with this wonderful locomotive?

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 03:27 PM

Not my problem. It could be a problem for folks having to breathe the exhaust.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 04:17 PM

They'll just have to stay at home then. It's no different from breathing the foul stench from smokers outside places!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:31 AM

Nonsense. If you've lived in England for more than a few years, you should well remember the soot and grime covering everything from fresh washed laundry to childrens' lungs.

Mining and burning coal is a major cause of pollution and greenhouse gases, childhood asthma and global warming. Weighed against that, steam engine nostalgia is just silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:16 AM

It's a difficult subject, steam nostalgia. All very well for us young chaps 40 odd years ago but a different story for the drivers, firemen and cleaners, not to mention the general public. To precis a paragraph from "Britain's Railways Under Steam" by the splendid John Snell -

"The Midland's main line depot in London was Kentish Town. One shed was partly roofless, following bomb damage never repaired. The engines came in, were coaled and had their fires cleaned, and lay by waiting their next turn. The wind blew their ashes, coaldust and smoke over a square mile or so of houses, and for 80 years or so these lay blanketed in silently descending filth. Then came the diesel, and one by one the steam engines vanished. Meanwhile, the housewives downwind began to find that for the first time they could keep their houses clean and put bright curtains in the windows."

And Mr Snell has been half way round the world chasing steam!

On the other hand, many ex railwaymen miss steam as much as us gricers - as another example see this splendid website about, let's face it, a filthy old dump with not a few extremely filthy engines near Nottingham -

http://www.annesleyfireman.com/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: GUEST,Phil Irving
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:22 PM

Would appreciate a pic of Tornado - well done you!
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 03:18 PM

I saw her in the engine shed atLoughborough (Great Central Railway) in the autumn. DWARFED everything else in the shed.

First run to Kings Cross tomorrow!

The loco will be named at York station by Prince Charles on Febrary 19th. After that she will haul the Royal train.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Tornado!/Newly Built Class A1 Steam Loco
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 05:36 PM

There is always a misery to critisise a great achievement in this country, and michaelr certainly fits the bill.