BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:43 AM

The list makes no claim about reigious persecution.
It is just a list of incidents involving the murder of Christians.
Have you found one single inaccurate entry?
Neither have I.

I will check a couple more if you like, and you can pick them for me.
Pick the most unlikely ones you can find.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:33 AM

"Jim, if neither of us, nor anyone else can find a false entry, it is probably mostly accurate."
You are again openly lying - I have stated several times that the firs five entries on the list are either unproven or totally false - you have only given that "you remember the attack on the church so far".
If this is how you are intending to embark on your mammoth quest of showing that two-thirds of the list are proven correct you may as well give up and take your ball home.
Stop wasting my time and go get your proof.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:44 AM

Jim, working full time, that would take weeks.
I have proved two and offered two more.
You claim that the first five are false?
Let's check the first two.

Date         Country         City/State         Killed         Injured         Description
9/22/2013         Pakistan         Peshawar         61         110         Two Shahid suicide bombers obliterate over sixty worshippers at a church service.
9/14/2013         Pakistan         Karachi         1         0         A Christian's throat is slit on the street after being branded an 'infidel' and blasphemer.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:51 AM

"Two suicide bombers blow themselves up as hundreds leave a church in Peshawar - in Pakistan's deadliest ever attack on Christians.
6:40pm UK, Sunday 22 September 2013"

http://news.sky.com/story/1144982/pakistan-suicide-bombing-at-peshawar-church

Item one confirmed exactly as presented.
I will look at number two later.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:51 AM

number 2
"After slicing throat of Boota Masih in front of shopkeepers and traders the killer Muhammad Arif waved his knife in air standing on dead body shouted slogans "Allah O Akber, Allah O Akber" "I have killed an infidel blasphemer" and walked away."
http://ahmadiyyatimes.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/pakistan-christian-slaughtered-on.html

Your turn Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:23 AM

"Let's check the first two."
I gave you the ones I checked - top of Boo-Boo's first list
My findings on the first two were, as stated -
1   All information from this comes from extremist web-sites
2   Police blame either terrorists or criminal gangs - no arrests, no definite suspects
Rather than just lifting your claims from the titles given by the Islamic extremists, why not give us links to the events honest individual that you are!!

At this rate you should be finished by the anniversary of the end of Word War one.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:34 AM

Those are the first two entries on Bobad's first list, posted 19 Oct 13 - 09:53 AM

I have now shown that 4 entries are corroborated by news reports.
You have yet to produce anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:00 AM

No Keith - you have shown the first one to be correct - the second one as I said, was put dow as possibly being a robbery - o arrests no charges - the only other one was your "hving remembered" - now get on with it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:21 AM

Good job they don't allow guns on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:44 AM

Justify your claim about murder 2.
Here are two more reports.
"Karachi: Pakistani Muslim man slits the throat of a Christian man in Karachi, 14 September, 2013
Shouting that he was killing "an infidel who blasphemed against Muhammad," a Muslim in Karachi slit a Christian man 's throat as police and others looked on, accused the slain man's son, George Masih. George Masih told the Morning Star News that his father, 58-year-old Boota Masih, had worked as a gold scavenger in Karachi's Liaquatabad Gold Market for 30 years, and that the Muslim who killed him also gathered gold dust from jewellers' rugs or work carpets at the market. Police informed the family that a Muslim, later identified as Muhammad Asif, had killed Boota Masih by slitting his throat with a dagger and then stabbing him multiple times. "We were told that Asif had kept shouting that my father was an infidel and had spoken derogatory words against Muhammad [Islam's prophet] as he mercilessly stabbed him. A large number of people, including four policemen and private security guards of the market, witnessed the entire scene, but no one tried to stop the killer, who walked away waving the dagger," Masih said. The family registered case No. 226/13 with the Liaquatabad Police Station, but the police were making little effort to arrest the murderer, complained the grief stricken son."
http://www.eopm.org/eopm_news2013.html


http://morningstarnews.org/2013/09/pakistani-muslim-cites-blasphemy-in-slaughter-of-christian-rival-in-business/

"
Karachi: September 17, 2013. (PCP) Boota Masih aged 50, working as Niyaria (Gold scrap collector from drain) at Liaquatabad Jewelers Market from last 40 years was brutally murdered by cutting his throat by a Muslim in broad daylight on September 14, 2013.

Boota Masih went to meet his friend in market where one Muslim named Muhammad Arif who also worked as Niyaria in same location kicked him on ground and attacked him with knife. Muhammad Arif after injuring Boota Masih with knife cut his throat with knife and killed him at spot.

After slicing throat of Boota Masih in front of shopkeepers and traders the killer Muhammad Arif waved his knife in air standing on dead body shouted slogans "Allah O Akber, Allah O Akber" "I have killed an infidel blasphemer" and walked away.

There were dozens of Muslims gathered on spot but no one stepped forward to stop killer and none tried to rescue Boota Masih."
http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/headlinenewsd.php?hnewsid=4482

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:16 AM

This gets ridiculous
You have four pages of postings of claimed religious atrocities put up by Boo-Boo from an Islamophic extremist site to justify their being trustworthy - as you have claimed - as you point out, about a thousand cases which you have given your unqualified support to
There are bound to be genuine one among them just as there are bound to be many false claims -you are the only one denying religious persecution - by Christians
Give us your links when you have done them and let's see which of them is real, which one is invented, which one is untraceable and let's fight it out later
If you are going to quibble about each one as you go along we are both going to be dead and buried before you get half-way through the first one.
By the way - it's just been announced that the European Court has ruled that the State is responsible for sexual abuse carried out against her when she was 8.
Thought you might like to know that to help you on your way
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:29 AM

It is not true to say I gave "unqualified support."

What I actually said was "Jim, if neither of us, nor anyone else can find a false entry, it is probably mostly accurate."

All the entries I have checked have proved true.
I still have not found any false entries, AND NEITHER HAVE YOU!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:35 AM

European Court has ruled that the State is responsible for sexual abuse carried out against her when she was 8.

I have no idea what this is about.
Does anyone know, or has Jim started raving?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:00 AM

"....has Jim started raving?"

Started?.....the little man is pathological, haven't you noticed?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:08 AM

"It is not true to say I gave "unqualified support."
Yes you dis - you said, and continue to say that there was no reason to disbelieve anything on the site and that you had examined many details and found them all to be true - that is unqualified support.
Stop wriggling - piss or get off the pot.
"Does anyone know, or has Jim started raving?"
The rape of children by Christians who have had them placed in their care.
The State disclaimed responsibility as the school was a privately run one - the European Court ruled otherwise, which has opened the floodgates to the State being held responsible for seeing justice being done in all cases of clerical rape and physical abuse in State institutions - ie - Christian Persecution
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:05 AM

Yes you dis - you said, and continue to say that there was no reason to disbelieve anything on the site and that you had examined many details and found them all to be true

I actually said that I was suspicious of it.
That is why I made my own checks.
My crime then, was to be honest about what I found.

What did you find Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:16 AM

"I actually said that I was suspicious of it."
What "you actually said" was that you had examined the thread, checked it extensively and could find nothing wrong with it - it turns out that you lied - you have not checked it and despite the fat that it comes from a blatantly racist site, you are still standing by it (and will continue to do so even if you ever get round to examining it closely, which you haven't so far).
If you have any intention of following up your support for this fascist site with real information from reliable sources - get on with it.
If you are just going to continue prevaricating, piss off and stop wasting both our times.
You appear to be having less support that you are having on WW1 site - at least there you have found support from one idiot - Colonel Blimp.
Get on with it and stop pissing about
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:55 AM

I did say I was "suspicious" of it.
Deny that Jim? I can soon find it.
That is why I carried out my on checks, checking a selection of items at random.
I was honest about my findings.
NOW, WHAT DID YOU FIND JIM????

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:02 PM

I knew bloody well that you had no intention of substantiating your blanket support for this shit-heap of a site "it doesn't matter who said it if it's true" - unquote.
Piss off and stop wasting my time you horrendous little shit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:02 PM

I knew bloody well that you had no intention of substantiating your blanket support for this shit-heap of a site "it doesn't matter who said it if it's true" - unquote.
Piss off and stop wasting my time you horrendous little shit
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:12 PM

Jim, if neither of us, nor anyone else, can find a false entry, it is probably mostly accurate.

Have you found a single false entry yet?
Be honest please, and if you have tell me which so I can check it too.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:52 PM

Keith, you should know by now that when he starts with his name calling and attacking a site it's because he can't find fault with the information it presents - if he could he would be on it faster than a fly on shit and in big red letters too.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:51 PM

"it is probably mostly accurate"
Until you check how do you know, unless you automatically believe what is issued by fascist web-sites - which apparently is the case.
You claim to have checked less than a half dozen out of how many - a thousand, wasn't it.
Go away and don't come back till you've done lots and lots and lots more - and take Jimminy Cricket with you - it's him who dropped you into the klarts in the first place with his 'Bridgestone', 'White Supremist' and 'Muslim Watch sites -so watch your back.
Oh - and by the way, thank you a million times for confirming that you still accept the word of extremist sites without evidence, or even bothering to check - it all comes in handy for future use
"Every little helps"
Yi Ho Silveeer!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:33 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 04:45 AM

troubadour, I think West meant West, i.e. Europe."

OH REALLY?

"Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 07:12 AM

-snip- Ed West, citing the French philosopher Regis Debray, distils the problem thusly: "The victims are 'too Christian' to excite the Left, and 'too foreign' to excite the Right."

Church leaders outside the Middle East are afraid to speak out, partly because they fear precipitating more violence. (Seven churches were fire-bombed in Iraq after Pope Benedict XVI quoted an ancient criticism of Islam in an academic speech in Germany.) Oddly, unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. are the only powers acting in the Middle East that do not take any special interest in the safety of those with whom they have a historical religious affinity.

These are the lands in which Jesus' apostles and their disciples made some of the first Christian converts. In an interview, West pointed out that these communities "were Christian when our ancestors were worshipping trees and stones." Now they are in danger of imminent extinction." -snip-

You want to be respected as a purveyor of FACT, and you don't even bother to read the content of your own posts, FOOL?

First I ever heard about Europe being referred to as Ed West!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:48 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:43 AM

The list makes no claim about reigious persecution.
It is just a list of incidents involving the murder of Christians.
Have you found one single inaccurate entry?
Neither have I."

So it doesn't claim religious persecution, just victims of murder who happen to be Christians.

That is far from supporting your original claim of murder BECAUSE they were Christian, which you now seem to be denying.

Have you found any which DO support your original claim?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 01:00 AM

Troubadour, I was just checking the veracity of the list by sampling.
I made no interpretation, but on looking back I see that that is claimed by whoever prepared it.

I am sure West meant the West.
He is not a fool as you suggest, and it makes perfect sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 03:35 AM

"CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION? NO. ANNIHILATION!"http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/christian-persecution-no-annihilation/

Troubadour, you rubbished West and his work because of what you said was his error of History.
The error was yours.
He is a Westerner and he was addressing Westerners.
When he referred to "our ancestors" he clearly meant Westerners' ancestors, and that makes perfect sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:14 AM

"It is just a list of incidents involving the murder of Christians."
It is a list compiled and invented by a group dedicated to proving that Islam is an evil threat to the world and should be eliminated from the face of the earth- it's sole purpose is to espouse that cause and generate hatred towards all Muslims - go and read their "Religion of Peace?" statements.
Just as all your efforts on the "Muslim Persecution", "Homs Horror" and "Murdered Soldier" threads, it is a message of hate directed against all Muslims.
If this were not the case, compiling a list of a thousand crimes by Muslims against Christians would be as pointless as compiling lists of crimes committed by Christians, Jews, or any other belief against those of different faiths.
You have given your unqualified support to this list without a shred of evidence of its validity and without having made an effort to back up that support other than to grab hold a couple of the obvious ones to make your case - you are now refusing to make a further effort, yet you continue to support it.
I say that all groups such as Muslim Watch should be recognised as the hate mongering savages that they are and everything they claim should be treated with the deepest suspicion and rejected out-of-hand until it is proved beyond a shadow of doubt.
It should never be taken as serious argument, but as a means to further their ends of demonising all Muslims and their religion.
It is the job of this scum and their supporters (such as yourself) to prove that their claims are true, not for us who believe it to be racist shit to prove it is false - its very pedigree makes it nothing other than racist propaganda.
If you are not a member or supporter of Muslim Watch, can you explain why you are peddling their propaganda as fact without having examined it - why are you refusing to carry out any form of serious examination of a horrendous list of accusations of atrocities by Muslims against Christians?
Why are you now claiming that such a list, made up totally of claimed Muslim crimes against Christians is "not about religious persecution"?
Who sent you to this forum to persistently peddle race hatred, as you have done over the last few years.
Who is your employer - what organisation do you represent?
We really do need to know.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:39 AM

Summed up simply - as you appear to have difficulty with dealing with more than one sentence at a time.
How dare you present a claim of this size from an obvious racist Islamophobic site as true, or even probably true and demand that we disprove it?
Are all Islamophobic statements to be taken as fact until they are disproved?
What is your line on Islamophobia - for or against?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:46 AM

You repeat the lie that I gave "unqualified support."
I did no such thing.
I treated it with suspicion, taking NOTHING on trust.
I even checked the truth of some random, unlikely looking entries.

Your real objection is that I could find no false entries, and reported that honestly.
Sorry, but I do not lie Jim.

NOW TELL US HONESTLY HOW MANY UNTRUE ENTRIES YOU HAVE FOUND!
I have found none.
How about you Troubadour?
Anyone?

If none of us can find a single false entry, and only true ones, what does that suggest to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 07:02 AM

"You repeat the lie that I gave "unqualified support."
You have put it up as genuine and have said you have no reason to doubt any of it - that is unqualified support in anybody's book except your apparently
Why teh fuck should any of us run around chasing our tails disproving statements from this shower of scum, Nige Numbnuts Farage, Nick Griffin or any of the turdules whose views you appear to take as gospel - it comes from a corrupt source and can never be taken seriously until it is established as fact - the Nazi campaign to prove all Jews as being culturally and racially inferior and worthy of extermination should have told you that.
You believe this shit and want us to accept it - prove it.
I ask again - does this not come from an Islamophobic site - if it does, why should we bother our arses about it - on what grounds do you accept it without checking it - who do you work for?.
But once again - I can't thank you enough for constantly admitting that you are prepared to accept garbage such as this without even bothering to check - wonderful contribution to all these arguments.
As the song nearly said
"Stay as infallible as you are,
don't let a thing ever change you"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:11 AM

You have put it up as genuine

Also not true.
I just pointed out that none of us have been able to find any fault with it, and that is true.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:42 AM

YES YOU BLOODY WELL HAVE - IF YOU SAY YOU SEE NO REASON DO DOUBT ANY OF IT YOU IMPLY THAT IT IS ALL TRUE.
If you want us to believe any of it prove it is true otherwise admit you are prepared to accept and circulate garbage from racist sites without checking.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:42 AM

YES YOU BLOODY WELL HAVE - IF YOU SAY YOU SEE NO REASON DO DOUBT ANY OF IT YOU IMPLY THAT IT IS ALL TRUE.
If you want us to believe any of it prove it is true otherwise admit you are prepared to accept and circulate garbage from racist sites without checking.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:49 AM

That is not true either.
Your lies are becoming increasingly frantic and desperate.

I actually said, (17 Jan 14 - 03:37 AM )

Jim, if neither of us, nor anyone else can find a false entry, it is probably mostly accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 03:02 AM

The Independent today.

"The war on Christianity: The religion's followers are dwindling in the land of its birth - and it's not a crisis of faith, but one of violence"

"What is beyond dispute, however, is that Christians are being deliberately killed in large numbers on account of their faith in the region where it first flourished"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-war-on-christianity-the-religions-followers-are-dwindling-in-the-land-of-its-bir

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 03:06 AM

Link no good.
Paste in http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-war-on-christianity-the-religions-followers-are-dwindling-in-the-land-of-its-birth--and-its-not-a-crisis-of-faith-but-one-of-violence-9094363.html

Jim, here is a list of incidents provided on the same page.
Hardly a racist, hate site!

A sample of atrocities across these countries gives an idea of the rising tide of terror from which Christians are suffering:

µ In Egypt, many supporters of deposed President Morsi irrationally blamed Coptic Christians for his downfall, and took revenge on them. They seized control of the remote town of Delga, burning down three of the five churches there, and forced thousands of Christians to flee. They looted the 1,600-year-old monastery of the Virgin Mary and St Abraam and set fire to it. "They [the Copts] alone were set up as scapegoats and erroneously blamed for instigating the violent dispersal of pro-Morsi demonstrators," Bishop Angaelos, of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the UK, told a US Congressional hearing.

µ In Syria, as jihadists gained the upper hand over more moderate rebels, the village of Maaloula, where many still speak ancient Aramaic, the language of the Bible, was invaded by rebels who attacked churches, forcing many among the 3,000-strong population to flee. Elsewhere in the country, two archbishops were abducted by gunmen in April last year and have yet to reappear.

µ In Iraq on Christmas Day, 24 people were killed when a bomb exploded outside a church in Doura, southern Baghdad, as worshippers were leaving at the end of a service. Dozens more Christians were killed elsewhere in the country during the Christmas period. Prior to the Iraq war, there were 1.4 million Christians in the country, around 3 per cent of the population. Since then, the number has fallen to about 300,000. Raphael I Sako, the Chaldean Patriarch of Baghdad, said: "If emigration continues, God forbid, there will be no more Christians in the Middle East. [The Church] will be no more than a distant memory."

µ In Pakistan, 85 Christians were killed when two suicide bombers blew themselves up outside a historic church in the frontier city of Peshawar in September 2013. Standing in the church's courtyard and comforting the wounded, the Bishop Emeritus of Peshawar, Mano Rumalshah, commented afterwards: "It's not safe for Christians in this country. Everyone is ignoring the danger to Christians in Muslim-majority countries. The European countries don't give a damn about us."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 04:40 AM

So you are now defending a racist hate site - wonderful - I couldn't have wished fro a better way to greet the day this morning.
It's hate site - don't cherry-pick bits and pieces as you always do read it's agenda - it's a fascist hate group - you moron.
But in the meantime please, please, please continue the line you have embarked on - not just supporting the filth put out by one of these hate groups, but by defending the groups themselves.
By the way - I am totally at a loss to understand the significance of your puttig up what you have - they are all part of an Islamophobic diatribe.
Even racists like yourself have paid lip-service "not all Muslms are effected by their Islamic implant - some resist" - or words to that effect - as genuine as your concern for the citizens of Homs who you advocated could reasonably be controlled by British supplied riot control gear
Today Muslim Watch - tomorrow the B.N.P - where next?
You appear to have completely flipped - you really have made my day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 04:55 AM

So you are now defending a racist hate site

Of course I am not.
Just repeating the same old lie over and over does not make it true.

I do not defend any site.
I do not defend the list.
On the contrary, I treated it with suspicion, refused to accept anything except the several incidents that I remembered, and even went as far as carrying out my own checks on some unlikely ones.

What is your objection?
That I did not keep quiet that I could only find true incidents, as you did?

You all have attacked me for raising this issue as a concern.
The Guardian, The Independent and other reputable sources have done exactly the same.
Do you attack them too?
Why do you not care about the annihilation of a poor and vulnerable people?

You have plenty of compassion for Bedouin, Palestinians, clerical abuse victims, etc., but none for Christians whose sufferring exceeds all others.
Are you a bigot?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 06:22 AM

You are defending a racist site and lying about doing so in the space of two posting - some sort of a record, even for you.
"Hardly a racist, hate site!"
"Of course I am not."
Meanwhile - back on Planet Earth.
While I realise that persecution by Christians doesn't count on a thread entitled "Christian Persecution" to some people, this account of Christian persecution in the U.K. appeared in the Irish Times this morning
It is on the page following the one which reports that a Bishop in Northern Ireland had demanded that his name be removed from an enquiry into the behaviour on Brendan Smythe, the Church's worst child abuser.
The bishop has settled out-of-court for his part in covering up Smythe's crimes and allowing him to continue his abuse.
Thank you after all for keeping this dreadful thread open - lots more to come from the sound of things
Jim Carroll

PRIEST SAID ORPHANS IN DERRY HOME WERE 'THE PRODUCT OF AN EVIL RELATIONSHIP
Former resident was told to keep quiet about abuse allegations, inquiry hears
DAN KEENAN in Banbridge. Co Down

A priest told a former resident of a Derry residential home run by nuns that he must never re¬peat allegations of sex and other abuse.
A witness told the Historical Institutional Abuse Inquiry, which is investigating allegations of ill treatment of children at 13 care homes in Northern Ireland before 1995, the priest told him to stay silent about his claims concerning the home at Termonbacca in Derry, run by the Poor Sisters of Nazareth.
The witness, who cannot be identified, said he approached a priest later in life and told him of physical and sexual abuse he suffered.
He said the priest replied: "You must never speak about this. You and the other orphans are bastards, you are the product of an evil and Satanic relationship."
The witness said: "When a priest tells you that, that sums up how an orphan was perceived. What chance did I have?"

HOURS OF TESTIMONY
On the third day of oral hearings the inquiry heard hours of harrowing testimony from two former residents of the Termonbacca home who wished to tell their stories publicly.
The first witness, who said he was known at the home by his ID number, told of habitual beatings, of terror, loneliness and abuse. Telling the inquiry of his time at the home was "a day of freedom" he said, adding that through the inquiry he had met one of his brothers for the first time in decades.
"Looking into the eyes of my eldest brother - he threw his arms around me and we cried. They killed our family."
He said he had no idea his brothers were also at the same institution.
In later testimony, the witness confirmed that While still a young child at Termonbacca he deliberately wet the bed to pro¬tect himself from sexual abuse.
"What abuser would want to drop the hand on a child saturated in his own urine?" he said.
He referred to the institution being run by "the Taliban" such was the nuns' cruelty, but also insisted some individual nuns were very kind, as were civilian workers there.
The witness recalled that at night, a boy would start crying for his mother then another boy would also start.
"Within 60 seconds we were all crying for our mammies even though we didn't know what 'mammy' meant," he said.
Another witness cited rough treatment and fear of the Christian Brothers for deliberately failing an exam that would have got him into the grammar school. "I deliberately failed my 11-plus as I didn't want to go to the Christian Brothers," he said. "I didn't want to go there and 'get more'."

DECK SCRUBBER
Baths at Termonbacca were "horrendous" he added, saying children were dipped like sheep in a bath filled with Jeyes Fluid.
"We were scrubbed with a deck scrubber, believe it or not," he said.
Like other witnesses, he said Saturdays were spent polishing floors. The boys linked up and An image above a door at Nazareth House on Bishop Street, Derry, which was one of the homes run by the order.
polished as a team, citing a rhyme as they worked: "Rub her back, rub her back, before I put this broom across your back," he said.
Counsel Joseph Aiken later presented to the inquiry biographical details of three nuns who had worked at Termonbacca. Testimony from nuns who lived and worked in Derry is due to be heard later.
He referred the chairman to a nun's witness statement in which she talks of a happy time at the children's home. She had no recollection of physical abuse or punishment being administered.
Evidence continues today.

See; Eamonn McCann: Care 'homes' where church destroyed lives: Opinion, page

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 06:42 AM

"Hardly a racist, hate site!"
That was referring to The Independent, who also compiled a list.

I wish to withdraw a statement from my last post.
"You have plenty of compassion for Bedouin, Palestinians,....."

You have no compassion in you.
You shed cold crocodile tears for Bedouin Israelis, but nothing for the far worse plight of Bedouin in Egypt, who are marginalise, exiled to remote desert and denied basic employment and other rights and even citizenship.
Your "concern" is not for the Bedouin but against Israelis.

Likewise you have never expressed any concern for for the plight of Palestinian refugees incarcerated in camps with no rights for seventy years, but only for Palestinian Israelis with whom they would gladly change places.

No compassion, just a cold, hard political ideology.
If anyone like me points out flaws, in true Stalinist style you denounce me with a vicious campaign of lies and smears.

I have supported no site and did not accept the list.
I subjected it to checks against news reports.
You lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 07:33 AM

Give us your opinions on the site you are supporting then.
And you are once again ignoring a horrific case of abuse by a Christian church in the UK
And once again you are lying
I have always made quite clear, as has every single one of your opponents, that I neither defend nor condone religious, cultural or ethnic persecution by any religious or political group - "damn them all" remember.
You, on the other hand have used the abuse of Christians by Muslim extremists to attack "all Muslims" (that quote of yours again - told you it would come back to bite your bum - watch this space from now on)
The abuse, persecution and harassment of itinerants and Nomads is a fact of life throughout the world - especially in Britain and Ireland where I have described it as "ethnic cleansing" - I certainly do not condone it in Egypt, or anywhere else in the Muslim world -it is as I have described.
On the other hand, the fact that it is happening elsewhere is no excuse for it happening in either Britain or in Israel - both of which you have vigourously defended      
Your defence of moving Bedouins onto a toxic site to make room for Israeli settlers is an established part of Mudcat history.
As far as Britain is concerned, you deliberately opened a thread to prove that one of the most basic and well known form of persecution of Travellers in the UK and Ireland - the refusal of service to Travellers in pubs, didn't happen.
You rejected our thirty years of experience working with Travellers, a photograph Pat had taken, accounts of a court case -including a photograph. statements by reform groups like the Runnymede Trust, police reports - all an invention by me according to you.
Your sole argument - you hadn't seen a sign so they didn't exist.
Don't you ever accuse me of condoning the persecution of itinerants, or any other ethnic or racial group, you deplorable little toe-rag.
But please keep up your line of argument - it's now grown out of being referred to as "every little helps"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 07:45 AM

Your sole argument - you hadn't seen a sign so they didn't exist.
No.
You claimed they were "common throughout Britain."
I started a thread appealing to all Mudcat members for their experiences.
No one person reported seeing one in years.

My views on clerical abuse coincide with yours, but I will not discuss it on this thread.
There have been many threads already and you could always start a new one.
Why do you want to stop discussion of Christian persecution?
Because you are an uncaring bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 09:47 AM

"My views on clerical abuse coincide with yours, but I will not discuss it on this thread."
You views do not coincide with mine or anybody else's in any way - you have told us that religious influence over the State not exist in Ireland or in any Christian Christian country and if we didn't like what happens we should piss off and go and live somewhere else.
This is emphasised by your attempts - to the extent of having to be threatened to be reported - of trying to stop all discussion on persecution by Christians
You are compounding that by refusing to discuss persecution by Christian Churches here
You have relegated the decades long rape of children and the ruining of their lives to not being as important as Muslim persecution (you haven't even referred to persecution by others, except to defend it (strenuously in the case if Israel) and you have plumbed the internet sewers to make your case.
You refuse to even comment on the Islamohobic site which you have given your unqualified support (suggesting that a thousand claimed incidents which you have not even examined are "probably right" - unqualified support in everybody's book apart from your twisted piece of porn apparently)      
You call me a bigot while digging yourself deeper and deeper into your own bigoted hole - keep digging
"No one person reported seeing one in years."
Except the Travellers we met at the time of the argument, the Runnymede Trust, the police, even a member of the British establishment, Sir Angus Fraser.

http://www.nls.uk/catalogues/online/cnmi/inventories/acc12091.pdf

but they, like your W.W.1. soldiers, were probably liars and the handful of Mudcatters who said they hadn't seen the signs (one had the good grace to admit that this was immaterial) proved that the signs didn't exist.
You retreated from the argument still calling me - and them liars.
You are a meglomanic nutter Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 10:00 AM

Whoops - this one
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0090599032000058875?journalCode=cnap20
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 10:24 AM

You refuse to even comment on the Islamohobic site which you have given your unqualified support
I know nothing about it Jim, and you repeat the blatant lie that I have supported any site.

and the handful of Mudcatters who said they hadn't seen the signs (one had the good grace to admit that this was immaterial) proved that the signs didn't exist.
No.
It proved beyond doubt that they were not "common throughout Britain.
The thread ran for 5 months and about 400 posts.

You retreated from the argument still calling me - and them liars.
No.
Here is my final contribution.
'NoTravellers'common UK sign?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 11 Jan 13 - 07:02 AM

"your now totally scuppered case"

My case was that they are not common throughout Britain, and that is the case.
This thread is the evidence.
Everyone on this thread except you knows that they are not common throughout Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 12:36 PM

"My case was that they are not common throughout Britain, and that is the case."
Thank you for confirming your total rejection of all the of researched evidence from all the experts and organisations I have named - saves me from having to dredge it up again.
"The thread ran for 5 months and about 400 posts."
As usual, around wo thirds of them posted by you.
I would guess aroung half a dozen members actually said they hadn't seen the signs - hardly confirmation of anything in the face of the mass of evidence you rejected out of hand because "I have ever seen them"
"I know nothing about it Jim, and you repeat the blatant lie that I have supported any site."
Then why do you support everything it has claimed without checking it out?
I checked out the site to find out what it was - I always do when you and Boo Boo produce evidence
You are perfectly free to do likewise and show us it is worthy of your undying devotion and trust
Keep it up Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 03:08 PM

Not one Mudcat person had seen the signs.
There were about 40 named contributors plus some unnamed Guests.
That proves they are not "common throughout the country" as you claimed.
You were wrong and I was right as usual.

Then why do you support everything it has claimed without checking it out?
I checked out the list.
I am sure you did too.
Neither of us could find a false entry.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 06:36 AM

"Not one Mudcat person had seen the signs."
Er no - of those contributing to the thread, some said they hadn't, you were the only to deny their existence lying again.
A quick recap of your position and then I'll let you have your customary last word wouln't want to upset the feng shui of these threads that you insist on making your own.
You still believe that, in spite of all the statements made by those involved with Travellers, you know more than all of us/them rolled together (infallibility rules OK)
You still proclaim your disgusting suggestion that Assad should be supplied with equipment enabling him to disable his opponents, stick them in his torture chambers - then "disappear them" - 17,000 to date and counting.
You still believe "all male Pakistanis" implanted potential perverts.
You are prepared to support uncritically the claims of an extremist racist site (app 1,000) after only examining couple of them and refusingto look at the reast.
You still refuse to pay more than lip-service to long term and current persecution by the Christian Church. desperately trying to rule it "off side" on a thread entitled "Christian Persecution"
I'm sure I've missed plenty - but that'll do for now - and for future use.
Carry on - your last word is.....?
"All lies" - no doubt!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 06:48 AM

Jim, I live in this country and have never seen such a sign.
They have been illegal for 48 years.
Not one of the 40+ contributors had seen one either.
That proves that they are not "common throughout Britain" as you claimed.

You were wrong and I was right as usual.

Now, the subject is religious persecution.
Please stop trying to change it.