BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:04 AM

"If there were no Catholic Church, there would be no Catholics"
Further deliberate and extremely stupid distortion
Where have or has anybody ever suggested that there should be "no Catholic Church" or there should be a "rooting out"?
"Until that grip is broken the abuse will continue - "religion and politics is a toxic mix" and the faithful are just as prone to religious persecution as are non-or-contrary believers."
WILL YOU PLEASE STOP LYING
"Rooting out" is a pure invention on your part and placing it in inverted commas underlines your despicable dishonesty
I expect that you will ignore this fact as you continue to ignore all others.
"intent of Keith's thread."
Unless Maggie's desire to privatise everything including the air we breathe has extended its avaricious tentacles as far as Mudcat, this or any other thread on this forum is not the personal property of any single individual and no one has the right to demand that we discuss only the aspects that any individual demands we do.
I have long ceased to be surprised at your continual support of Keith's dishonest, undemocratic and reactionary outpourings, but just occasionally you manage to surprise.
Further welcome signs of the loosening of the grip of the Church here this morning.
There is to be a challenge mounted to the Constitution law that says that all seeking public office in Ireland must declare a belief in God.
Not so long ago Labour Eamon Gilmore, a stated atheist, sought legal advice on this matter and was informed that he was bound by Constitutional law to declare a belief in God.
A little more light at the end of the tunnel, it would appear.
Jm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:11 AM

Jim.
"in any country (Eire) whose laws contain great injustices, you root out the causes of those injustices and uproot them at the source' in the cases of religion dominated countries, the churches.."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 07:23 AM

Nobody is trying to say that a thread remains the property of its OP, Jim. But it is those who demand its extension or deflection into other aspects of its topic who are 'manipulating'. I still don't see how you, an arch drifter and *manipulator* into your own political obsessions of any thread you infiltrate, can accuse the thread's originator of 'manipulation'. Nobody is 'manipulating' but your obsessive pontifical pigheaded doctrinaire self, for heavens sake. Stop being so thick & evasive. You do yourself scant credit with these perpetual dishonest evasions and undeserved denunciations.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 08:58 AM

What a gulf there is between attacking the Catholic Church and Catholics who make it up, or between Islam and Muslims or between Judaism and Jews. It's a distinction that has constantly made by spokesmen for the EDL, or by other organisations with a similar agenda.

There is of course a legitimate distinction that can be made, but it is not an easy matter to draw the line. When the views of ordinary Catholics are dismissed as irrelevant because they have been corrupted by their exposure to church teachings, that line has been not merely crossed but eroded.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 09:57 AM

" But it is those who demand its extension or deflection "
Nobody has to "demand" anything, particularly permission to discuss the reasons for religious persecution on a thread entitled "Christion Persecution"
The "Churches" are not the people - those who worship in the churches are the faithful - the root of the injustices are the people who lay down the law, make the rules for the faithful to obey - unquestioningly.
You obviously have abandoned any attempts of conducting an honest debate - I suggest you **** off and take your poodle with you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 10:31 AM

"I suggest you **** off and take your poodle with you."

There you go Mike, whenever he gets nailed this is the kind of shit he comes back with. I don't know why you waste your time with this a**hole, he is as doctrinaire as any religious fanatic and beneath contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 10:43 AM

Like it or not, that's the [Irish]Constitution

Its not about liking or not liking, Kevin - its about the demonstrable fact that it contains obviously "Christian"[sic] overtones & provisions that result in the persecution of elements of the Irish population.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 01:47 PM

"More heat, less light" is an excellent saying to bear in mind in discussions such as this. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to accord with how some of the most articulate posters see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket with a suggestion
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 02:21 PM

For anybody actually interested in Christian persecution, I note that B&Q have an offer on at the moment in nails. Jewson seem to have the best price for decent 4x2 timbers.

If you are in the good old US of A, try your local hardware store, down the isle next to the soda thingy, if my watching old Happy Days re runs is anything to go by.










Just thought I'd try and drag the thread from absurdity and back to good old stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 04:36 PM

Ya ain't gonna make any sort of respectable cross outa 4x2's.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:09 PM

These days it appears that in Saudi Arabia you get beheaded before being crucified. Here's a story from Amnesty International about that

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:14 PM

Sounds like an act of mercy to me, Kevin, rather than dying by slow suffocation.

Or are we now going to digress to discuss capital punishment in all its forms??

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 06:58 PM

No, the point was crucifixion is still part of the modern world.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Oct 13 - 07:59 PM

As Faulkner put it "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 03:32 AM

4x2 is just fine. Nail the planks to a wall and the Christian to the planks. Sorted.

The cost of keeping lions these days is prohibitive what with vet bills, permits etc plus ensuring their diet is at least 70% ruminant. Other than the serendipity of bagging the odd vegan, you need to feed four wildebeest for every Christian.

No. Stick to the B&Q option. Far easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:14 AM

How those Syrian Christians will be laughing Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:17 AM

BBC today.
Laham told the BBC that more than 450,000 Christians out of a total population of 1.75 million had been displaced or left the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 05:57 AM

"How those Syrian Christians will be laughing Musket"
"more than 450,000 Christians"
Methinks their laughter will be somewhat drowned out
"Flow of Refugees Out of Syria Passes Two Million"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 06:37 AM

Of all Muslim countries, Christianity is most integrated in Syria.
Even the extremists there at the present time are identified as targeting Christians and Muslims who are "not really Muslims"!! so Christians cannot claim being particularly singled out for persecution - in fact, what persecution at present taking place in Syria is due to the fact that the 'Christian West' is happy to stand by and watch it happen (as long as it isn't done using chemical weapons).
Therefore, any persecution of Christians taking place at the present time is being facilitated by other Christians - get my drift?
Which reminds me, isn't reference to Christian Persecution in Syria indulging in "thread drift" - wonder what Ma - (whoops) Mike thinks?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 07:01 AM

I can't see where Jim seems to get the notion that Keith or anyone is suggesting that the only people suffering religious persecution are Christians, or that that is the only religious persecution that matters , or that religious persecution is the only kind of persecution we should be aware of and try to end.

If those things were being suggested there would be reason to try to correct them. Perhaps there are some places where people are suggesting them. But not in this thread, or, so far as I am aware, on the Mudcat.

The evidence does seem to suggest that there is a particularly high level of persecution of Christian minorities in the world today. However whether in some kind of obscene league table of persecution Christians are at the top is not in itself that crucial, and hardly worth getting in a tizz about.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket between courses
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 07:23 AM

True. But a bit of a difference between being worth getting in a tizz about and whether getting in a tizz at all is the correct reaction.

The idea of a league table at all would be obscene and the thread seems to wish to highlight persecution based on which day you say your prayers.

So. On behalf of gay people in Uganda, Russia etc and on behalf of women in Ireland and indeed throughout the western world. ..

Pass me another bag of nails, I'm running low.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 07:46 AM

I started a thread about the war in Syria because it is the worst war at this time.
I started a thread about Christian persecution because it is the worst persecution at this time.

I am not denigrating other wars or other persecutions.
No league tables.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 08:04 AM

"No league tables"
And no evidence of specific Christian persecution - just general suffering due to malicious international neglect.
"I can't see where Jim seems to get the notion that Keith or anyone is suggesting that the only people suffering religious persecution are Christians"
Then why single out 450,000 Christians out of 2 million and why claim it to be Christian persecution (the subject of this thread, I'm told)when there is no evidence they are being maltreated no differently from the rest of the beleaguered population - give us a break Mac, it ain't rocket science!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 08:50 AM

I have put up plenty of evidence that Christians are suffering significantly worse persecution than other faiths.

In Syria they were not persecuted under Assad.
I used the example because it was in the news today.
450 000 is more than a quarter of all the Christians in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 09:01 AM

Of some 1.4 million Christians living in Iraq before the war, perhaps 400,000 — mostly the poor and the old — remain.

Many Iraqi refugees left to join the two million indigenous Christians of Syria. They now share their hosts' lot — persecution by the western-supported, Saudi-financed, Islamist-dominated Syrian rebels. Large areas of opposition-held Syria are now under sharia law. Saudi judges have appeared to administer it. Non-Muslims are only tolerated if they pay the jizya, the tax imposed on infidels. Priests are special targets. This is where a Syrian Catholic priest, Father François Murad, was murdered last month. He was not the first to die. A Syrian Orthodox priest, Father Fadi Haddad, was grabbed last December as he left his church to negotiate the release of a kidnapped parishioner. His body was found by the roadside, the eyes gouged out. Two higher-profile recent cases — if not high enough for the government or most of our press to notice — are those of the Greek Orthodox archbishop Paul Yazigi and the Syriac Orthodox archbishop Yohanna Ibrahim. They were seized near Aleppo in April, when trying to negotiate the release of kidnapped priests. Both archbishops are now presumed dead.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9006591/dont-expect-the-government-to-raise-its-voice-for-syrias-christians/

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 10:10 AM

I'm afraid it is ridiculous to say that Christian minorities are not being specifically persecuted. That catholic church in Peshawar where 85 massgoers were killed and a couple of hundred injured wasn't targeted at random. And in Syria Christians are being specifically targeted. So are other religious minorities. As was the case in Iraq, the oppressive regime under attack is seen as having been less oppressive towards such minorities.

Specifically does not mean exclusively. It does not even mean in greaser numbers. If someone was to say that gypsies in Nazi Europe were not specifically targeted on the grounds that most of those murdered were Jews they would rightly be ridiculed.

In places as far apart as Pakistan and Nigeria Christian minorities are being directly and specifically targeted. Real people murdered in sizeable numbers.   And of course its true that other people are being murdered for being in a minority. But nobody has sought to deny that, still less to say that they "deserve it" because of faults of their coreligionists on the other side of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 10:30 AM

Christians are being specifically persecuted in some areas. Other communities are being persecuted in other areas.

I am aware that right now, possibly due to Christian communities forming the minority where religion is used as a tool for division, it is a statistical certainty that more Christians are being persecuted in numbers than other communities split on cult lines.

Mentioning it and highlighting it seems agenda ridden to me. In stable countries such as most of the western world, Christians form the majority (culturally if not religiously) so of course persecution statistics are as they are.

It is a mental leap of the most shallow and agenda ridden type though to read any further than the awful statistic.

Hence my cynicism of the agenda behind this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 10:34 AM

No agenda, except the issue is under-reported.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 11:38 AM

"I used the example because it was in the news today."
It is utter crassness to claim "Christian persecution" where there is none.
At best, it is 'special pleading' for a minority of Assad's victims because they happen to be Christians - a slap in the face for the rest, at worst, it undermines the reasonably good relationship Christians appear to have with other religions in Syria.
Such accusations instigate religious persecution in the same way a criminal's plea that "you are only accusing me because I'm black" helps promote race hatred.
And stop blaming somebody else (again) - it was you who put it up on a thread entitled 'Christian Persecution', not some unnamed newspaper editor - think before you put your foot in your mouth, then put it in, as is your wont.
"Hence my cynicism of the agenda behind this thread."
And so say all of us.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 12:19 PM

A statistic is under reported?

Doesn't equate.

Unless there is a reason to highlight Christian persecution as opposed to any other.

I rest my case

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 12:37 PM

So if someone were to start a thread about "Gay bashing" it would be legitimate to denounce it as denying that lots of straight people get bashed as well, and that it is especially unfair to talk about this in particular because it marginalises violence towards other minority groups, or towards women.

Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 12:43 PM

""I can't see where Jim seems to get the notion that Keith or anyone is suggesting that the only people suffering religious persecution are Christians, or that that is the only religious persecution that matters""

Well he doesn't seem to be much bothered by the persecution of 3.8 million Palestinian Muslims, does he Kevin?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 02:36 PM

Don those Palestinians are thriving, their population rising rapidly.
The Christian numbers are dwindling to extinction as they are killed or driven out.
Jim, there is persecution of Christians in some rebel held parts of Syria.
Did you not use the link or read the extract?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 02:40 PM


Unless there is a reason to highlight Christian persecution as opposed to any other.

There is a reason.
The scale of the persecution and the number of communities being persecuted to extinction.
Read some of the links I put up.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:42 PM

"Hence my cynicism of the agenda behind this thread."
And so say all of us.
.,,.

N O   W E   D O N ' T

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 04:55 PM

Just checking in. This thread bears a striking similarity to Old Man River.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 07:01 PM

Oppression occurs all over the place.

Makes the odd newspaper report.

Some of it involves people with a loose affinity to westerners in terms of who they pray to.

Something must be done about it!

Some on this thread point out the issue with differentiating. Ah well, say the excited ones. You wouldn't say that if it was about gay bashing
Yawn.

The more I read the more I see hardwired bigotry. The fact the reported communities happen to be Christian is totally irrelevant. Their being different to the oppressors is the issue.

Unless you are pushing an agenda. Then the fact they are Christian as opposed to Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is all of a sudden important.

"Don't force us to accept women in top management roles because that would be persecuting us! " A bit like israeli actions. If you criticise their oppression of Palestinians you run the risk of being told you are anti semitic. Seems that gaining influence through guilt is a trick the Christian brethren are catching on to.

Why is the fact they are Christians important? It is a statistical certainty so what else are some on here trying to say? We make a special case? We deplore it more than any other cultural oppression?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 13 - 07:47 PM

The fact that they are Christians is significant because it is the reason they are persecuted. Just as the fact that they were Jews or gypsies was the reason they were sent to the death camps.

All cases are "special cases". Being "special" in any society is what is liable to get you persecuted.

I haven't seen anybody here who has said of the persecution of Christians "we deplore it more than any other cultural oppression", or anything remotely like that. (On the other hand I have seen posts saying that they see it as something to be welcomed...)

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:17 AM

"N O   W E   D O N ' T "
None so blind Mike
You are one of the two people here who have worked bloody hard to make sure that the thread is manipulated only to discuss the persecution of Christians - not the persecution by Christians, not the built-in reasons that all religious persecutions happen, so you have chosen to be part of Keith's agenda - "you would say that, wouldn't you".
You have even gone as far as to suggest something totally unprecedented on this forum - that somebody can own a thread and restrict it to the area he/she wishes to discuss.
The facts of Keith's agenda:
Christians are being persecuted - no argument, except where Keith has attempted to invent persecution where it simply doesn't exist.
Persecution by the Christian Church either doesn't happen or is unimportant because "if you don't like it you can move somewhere else".
To oppose or even criticise persecution and to attempt to remove its causes is to attack all Christians and demand the abolition of their religion.
If it waddles and quacks it's almost certainly - an agenda.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 02:57 AM

The facts of Keith's agenda:
Christians are being persecuted - no argument, except where Keith has attempted to invent persecution where it simply doesn't exist.

Made up shit.
I have never done that.

Persecution by the Christian Church either doesn't happen or is unimportant because "if you don't like it you can move somewhere else".

Also not true.
We were discussing secular Ireland's democratically instituted laws, not Church persecution.
If a citizen or guest does not like them they have choices, including leaving.
That is simply stating an obvious fact.
What extra choices would you give them Jim, and would you deny Irish people the right to make their own laws?
On what grounds?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 03:42 AM

Just had a quick read of early posts to this thread.

The point Keith started with was a Vatican based organisation reckoning that 100 million Christians are being persecuted in some way or other.

Cardinal O'Brien (since fled The UK and in hiding courtesy of the Pope for his role in kiddy fiddling) called on The Foreign Secretary to do something about Christian persecution.

So far, so Christian.

Keith then backs it up by saying Christians are accused of blasphemy to substantiate the persecution. Mmmm..

So. The thread starts with a Catholic organisation getting influential cardinals to ask governments to make Christian persecution a special case. The usual idiots on mudcat.org, realising you can't polish a turd try to roll it in glitter. (Blasphemy indeed. .. All prophets of the book for starters. )



The rest of this thread has been ridiculing those who saw straight through the agenda.

Next.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 03:56 AM

Keith then backs it up by saying Christians are accused of blasphemy to substantiate the persecution. Mmmm..

Not true.
Richard posted that one murdered Christian was killed for his opposition to Pakistan's blasphemy laws, not his faith, and I replied.

Anyone can check by just looking at the first few posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 04:05 AM

"How to commit blasphemy in Pakistan
The country's blasphemy law is overwhelmingly being used to persecute religious minorities and settle personal vendettas. As the case of 14-year-old Christian Rimsha Masih.."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/05/pakistans-blasphemy-laws-colossal-absurdity

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 04:40 AM

You have even gone as far as to suggest something totally unprecedented on this forum, - that somebody can own a thread and restrict it to the area he/she wishes to discuss.

No I haven't, Jim: I have said the precise contrary -

"Nobody is trying to say that a thread remains the property of its OP, Jim" 16 Oct 0723 am.

All I have said is there is no point telling him to open a new thread to discuss what he wants to, when he has already done that with this one so there wouldn't be a lot of point.

Your trouble is that you can only read what suits your own agenda & your eye skates merrily over everything else.

"None so blind" right back 2U, mate.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 04:48 AM

The Pakistani government say that is illegal. They try to reform local judiciary in the same way as any other democracy. The separation makes it difficult when prejudice and scapegoat politics are in force.

You may as well say that criminals are targeting Christians because in Pakistan's case that is what it is. Persecution implies state sanction and you are supposed to be intelligent enough to read the articles you post links to.

I'd try another angle if I were you. (The Angela angle backfired too. ) Feeling sympathy and indeed empathy for the oppressed is easy. You don't even have to point out which cult they happen to be part of. Just note that they are a minority. We used to do it to gays not that long ago. It isn't hard. Just find someone to blame for your own mess and the mindless thugs every society has will do the rest. Just look at the professors with misspelt banners at EDF, BNP or UKIP rallies to see how it could happen just as easily here.

If you wished it to.   If you do, start by pointing out persecution of people with a tenuous link to yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 04:54 AM

Tho why do I bother? As bobad so succinctly put it a couple of days ago -

"There you go Mike, whenever he gets nailed this is the kind of shit he comes back with. I don't know why you waste your time with this a**hole [{he means YOU, J Carroll!}], he is as doctrinaire as any religious fanatic and beneath contempt."

Wise words. Don't think I can be bothered to argue with the Carroll any longer. As the girl sez to her truculent boyfriend who may be getting involved in a fracas: "Oh, leave it alone. He's not worth it."

So ta·ra, Jim. Hope it keeps fine 4U.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 04:58 AM

Carroll & Mather are lucky that there is no official policy of persecuting point-missing subject-changing obscurantist ½-wits. They wouldn't last 5 minutes...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 05:54 AM

Musket, please make you posts simpler.
I struggle to understand.

Are you saying that Christians are not suffering persecution for their beliefs in Pakistan?

What is your criticism of me?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 08:07 AM

I'm saying whatever you twist my words into saying I am saying.

As ever.

My criticism is your agenda.


Michael. My wit is indeed 1/2 that of your own. Methinks in the opposite direction to your claim though. This thread is about Christian persecution. My fascination is with the agenda behind the use of the word Christian. There is oppression and persecution out there, lots of it. It is based on blaming a minority for all the ills. Bringing the specific word Christian into it is obscene.

In Pakistan you can be persecuted for your beliefs. Not by Pakistan though, but by criminals and rogue courts under a weak ineffectual government. Christians suffer from it, Shia Muslims suffer from it, Buddhists suffer from it yadda yadda.

This whole thread is based on a doubtful claim by a Vatican body that 100 million Christians are being persecuted. Even if the figures on persecution were true, the absence of acknowledging persecution based on any belief is disgusting.

Mind you, a Christian think tank reported today that one in four adults in The UK believe in angels. Perhaps it is asking too much to ask those angels to smite heathens who don't believe in the little baby Jesus? If Christians get the shitty end of the stick as opposed to any other minority in an unstable country, it makes you wonder why people waste so much time praying?

Wouldn't it be funny if we didn't have labels to allow us to hate each other? A good start will be the demise of religion in advanced countries and wait for the eventual knock on effect. Might take longer than our lifetime but the age of superstition is dying, slowly and with rearguard action, but dying. Poland, Russia, good Christian countries, Uganda, solid Christian country, Dumbfuckistan, part of The USA.. Try being openly gay and see how tolerant people are in the name of your bloody Christianity.

Hold that wonderful thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Oct 13 - 08:25 AM

I have no agenda.
Why do you need to believe that I do?
I raised a legitimate concern as I did with the suffering in Syria.

It is reasonable for you to question the Vatican figures, but what about all the other sources I have produced.

Bringing the specific word Christian into it is obscene.

So these are all "obscene" and "agenda" driven?
Really?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10264499/The-almost-unremarked-tragedy-of-Christians-persecuted-in-the-Middle-East.html

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/between-errands-april-thompson/2013/sep/26/persecution-against-christian-increases-many-parts/


http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/high-tide-and-turn/2013/aug/2/putin-world-leaders-should-unite-end-anti-chri

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9041841/the-war-on-christians/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/christianity-most-persecuted-religion_b_2402644.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/christianophobia-a-faith-under-attack-by-rupert-shortt-8274142.htm