Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'

Subject: ADD: Trail of the Lonesome Pine(MacDonald/Carroll)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 07:47 PM

Here's my transcription of a live 1957 recording by a very young Brenda Lee and Rex Allen. I recognized this song the moment I heard the first line. It must have had a lot of airplay when I was growing up.

THE TRAIL OF THE LONESOME PINE
(Ballard Mac Donald / Harry Carroll)

In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia,
On the trail of the lonesome pine—
In the pale moonshine our hearts entwine,
Where she carved her name and I carved mine.

Oh, June, like the mountains I'm blue—
Like the pine I am lonesome for you,
In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia,
On the trail of the lonesome pine.

Songwriters: Ballard MacDonald / Harry Carroll
The Trail of the Lonesome Pine lyrics © Shapiro Bernstein & Co. Inc. 1913


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTrJoFr6NRM

The lyrics are the same in this Wikipedia article on the song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 03:06 PM

As I see it, this all starts with the 1908 novel. Then there was the 1913 song, "Trail of the Lonesome Pine." Then there was the Carter Family song, Lonesome Pine Special.
And then somewhere along the way, there were one or two trains named after the novel, or maybe after one or both of the songs.
Yup. Quite a web.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Jan 19 - 10:50 AM

That's a lot of literary threads woven together.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 02:09 PM

Coincidentally, I've been reading Gilead, a 2004 novel by Marilynne Robinson - a Pulitzer Prize winner that Barack Obama lists as one of his favorites. The 1908 novel The Trail of the Lonesome Pine, plays an important part in Gilead.
Wikipedia says the 1913 song, "Trail of the Lonesome Pine," was a favorite of Gertrude Stein. Oh, and there were at least three movies based on the story, all titled The Trail of the Lonesome Pine.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:36 AM

Joe, those streamlined locomotives are really cool. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Jan 19 - 11:35 AM

The Lonesome Pine Golf Course still exists. See how it looks here:

http://www.lonesomepinecc.com/CourseFlyover/

It's beautiful, although if your ball goes off course, it might not stop for half a mile or so. In the background, you can see what an Appalachian "mountain" actually looks like.

I'm sorry to say that this course, like the courses in my part of the world, seems to have everything except players.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Long gone llLee countian
Date: 22 Jan 19 - 03:21 PM

My aunt used to ride the lonesome pine special from St Charles to Dryden when she taught at Bonney Blue ,she passed away at 106

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 11 Feb 17 - 11:36 AM

I think this discussion shows how intertwined American culture was with trains at one time .This was evidenced by the songs/music.The Lonesome Pine Special,The Wreck of the Old 97,Casey Jones,The Orange Blossom Special,The Wabash Cannon Ball,The City of New Orleans.Let The Midnight Special Shine It's light on me. Most these songs were pre 1950.There was many a little boy,maybe girl too who stood with open mouth and watched a smoke belching bell ringing whistle blowing, muscled machine go by and wished he would one day "have his hand upon the throttle and his eye upon the rail" from Carter Family Life is like a mountain railroad.Somebody stop me! I'll go on forever.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:51 AM

Sid, are you referring to Southern Railway No 1401 at the Smithsonian? Yes, that one is a beautiful locomotive. I've been drawn more to the big Union Pacific locomotives like the Big Boy and Challenger (not to mention the Southern Pacific Cab Forwards that used to go past what's now my home), but there were some really beautiful U.S. locomotives, like the Southern 1401 and the N&W 611. Here on the West Coast, we have the Southern Pacific Daylight, No. 4449.
-Joe-

Feast your eyes on this collection of streamlined locomotives (click).

And this one:

http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=325

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 10 Feb 17 - 02:16 AM

Nigel:

I should correct myself and say the modern excursion is the 'Lonesome Pine Limited'.

And yes, by the time North American rail professionals, let alone musicians and newspaper reporters, do their thing the UK cognates are pretty much history.

Americans name and number their trains, locomotives and routes. I take the Lonesome Pine as more of a route or service name like the bigger Orange Blossom Special or City of New Orleans where locomotives got added and dropped all along the route. Maintenance wasn't always timely but the service was, so the cars might change out over the seasons.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 10:44 PM

Leenia you mention the slowness and lack of happiness to the Carter's singing,having grown up in the Appalachians this was typical of singing from the area until more modern times.It may have come from the Scotch Irish that settled there.In the last century English songs were found to being sung in the Appalachians that hadn't been sung in England for 200 years.We may be slow but we finally get there..

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid. Gilbert
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 09:44 PM

If you vist the Smithsonian there is a beautiful Southern Steam Locomotive that will take your breath away.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 06:09 PM

On my driving tour last year, I visited two wonderful railroad museums in the Blue Ridge area. The first was the Virginia Museum of Transportation in Roanoke. This museum primarily celebrates the Norfolk and Western Railway, which built its locomotives in Roanoke. The N&W build the Hotel Roanoake, which has been nicely restored and surprisingly reasonable in price.

The star of the Virginia Museum of Transportation is the streamlined N&W 611. The locomotive wasn't there when I visited Roanoke, and I was sadly disappointed. I was told the locomotive was being repaired at another museum, in Spencer, North Carolina. Spencer was an easy day's journey, so I went - but took two days. I had to stop in Mt. Airy, NC (Mayberry USA) and see all the Andy Griffith stuff.

Turns out that Spencer is a bit hard to find, because it's a tiny town tucked in the armpit of a much large city, beautiful Salisbury NC. But finally I made it to the North Carolina Transportation Museum, and I was in railroad heaven. The museum took over the Spencer Shops, once Southern Railway's largest steam locomotive repair facility on the east coast. The museum has a 37-stall roundhouse and a working turntable, and it's expanding into more space. There's lots of space in this museum, so I was able to take photos of individual locomotives, instead of groups of equipment bunched closely together.

I wish I had known about this thread before I visited these great museums. Guess I'll just have to go back. I need to get to Bristol, too. I did cross the Clinch River at Oak Ridge, though.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid gilbert
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM

I will have to confess my father was a Jimmy Rodgers fan and not a Carter Family.The first country record was cut either by the Carters or Rodgers in Bristol . They both cut a record on the same day in Bristol.Bill Monroe and Ernest Tubb were big fans of Jimmy.Monroe often sang Mule Skinner Blues .

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 04:52 PM

Not that I know of. Most of my family tree are still located in the United Kingdom with me. (original home of Baseball)

Cheers

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 01:47 PM

Nigel ,Parsons is a very common Lee County name I was a Pediatrican in Mooresville ,In. I treated many a Parsons child that parents were from Pennington Gap Va. Lee County.Did you have a major league pitcher in your family tree ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 17 - 04:41 AM

GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Yes, I spotted that during my searches, together with info about some of the excursions being made, such as Here
This might explain Guest: Sid Gilbert identifying the engine as a Mohawk (with relevant wheel config.) It seems the 4501 is used for modern day excursions using the "Lonesome Pine Special" 'train'.
There is a distinction for rail enthusiasts between 'train' and 'engine'. Although they are often discussed as one and the same.
From what I can find it appears that, 'historically' the "Lonesome Pine Special" was the engine #1298, and a series of coaches.
But 'train' (as in the flowing attachment behind a bridal dress) can also be used to describe just the group of carriages being pulled by the engine.
Train can also mean the whole thing, engine + coaches, similar to a 'wagon train'.
And when someone mentions a "Steam train" it is quite possible they are just referring to the engine alone.

I hope this clears confusion in the previous comments, which, although conflicting, may all be accurate.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 04:50 PM

Believe it or don't the Lonesome Pine is still running... as a tourist excursion Special... on rare occasion.

Sid: If Chattanooga isn't too far a drive, get yourself over to the TVRM and have a look at the '4501'. Well worth the trip

http://www.tvrail.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Railway_4501

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 04:34 PM

A little more on the wheel configuration.
An index of photos Here at the end of P28, (or do Ctrl+f "Lonesome Pine")identifies it as:
Southern Steam Engine No. 1298, 4-6-2, "Lonesome Pine Special" at Bristol, Virginia – Tennessee in February, 1935 Photo Postcard #5530

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 04:22 PM

This page has more on the train:
"On May 6, 1939, the last regular passenger train roared through National Tunnel on its way to Bristol. This was the last run of the famed "Lonesome Pine Special" (See Figure 53), the name the one-a-day train had carried for several years. From then until now, only train crews or the occasional railroad buffs passing through on a special excursion (see Figure 54) could experience the Tunnel from the iron horse. From 1939 until 1982 under the Southern (see Figure 55), and from 1982 until present, under the Norfolk Southern (see Figure 56), the Tunnel served, and serves, as a gateway for the line's lifeblood—coal.

From the picture (Fig 53 noted above) it appears not to be 2-8-2, (although I'm not totally au fait with the describing of engines, as it clearly has 3 large driving wheels to a side.
The comments with the picture say:
"Figure 53. The Lonesome Pine Special, so-named because it traversed that region of Southwest Virgina identified with John Fox Jr.'s book The Trail of the Lonesome Pine, made its last passenger run through the Tunnel on May 6, 1939. From then on, Southern operated the line primarily as a coal road."

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 08 Feb 17 - 08:16 AM

The train started in St Charles Va went to Appalachia Va then south to Bristol.The steam engine locomotive was a"Mikado" I think a 2 8 2.The Carter family wrote The Lonesome Special,the memory of the actual train faded but the song survived.I'm starting to build a model of the train going on the a reproduction of the route.Getting the info hasn't been easy.I grew up 10 miles from St Charles in the great Lee County.The train was owned by Southern RR.Maybe this thread will help bring back the memory of this train.I mean The Lonesome Pine Special how can you beat that for a train's name?Forget about the Orange Blossom Special or the Cresent.Any info on this train please contribute.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 07 Feb 17 - 03:59 PM

In the Blue Ridge mountains on the trail of the lonesome pine.
Stood a Billy Goat eating dynamite that he thought was Quaker Oats.
They found his horns in the Blue Ridge mountains and his tail in the Lonesome pine

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 05:44 PM

In the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginny
Stood a cow on a railroad track.
She was a good old cow with eyes so fine,
But you couldn't expect a cow to read a railroad sign,
So she stood in the middle of the track,
And a train came and hit her right in the back.
You'll find her horns in the mountains of Virginny,
And her tail on her lonesome spine.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: JHW
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 01:50 PM

'In the back of my (English) mind is the phrase 'Lone Pine State''

maybe - Lone Star State?

Texas — The Lone Star State — How Texas Got its Name | TXU Energy
https://www.txu.com/...in.../why-is-texas-called-the-lone-star-state.aspx

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,Sid Gilbert
Date: 04 Feb 17 - 02:15 AM

Yes there was a lonesome pine special,my aunt taught at Bonny Blue for the weekend she would go down to St Charles and take it to Dryden the family home.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:26 AM

There's a YouTube video of three Carters singing it, so one can hear the tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiTp_9mlJ4I

It could be sung faster and happier. After all, the guy has made up his mind to make his life better.

The lyrics in the earlier thread have an ornithological mistake. The bird isn't a morning dove, it's a mourning dove.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 08:36 AM

"I wonder if there's a connection?"
grooooan, Bernard.

In the back of my (English) mind is the phrase 'Lone Pine State' But all the search finds is an area in California and a State Park in Montana.

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Fiolar
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 07:51 AM

Many people will know that the song "On the Trail of the Lonesome Pine" was sung by the great Laurel & Hardy in the 1937 film "Way Out West".

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 06:43 AM

'In.... the.... Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia
By the trail of the lonesome pine'

I wonder if there's a connection?

(At this point someone will come up with the name of the station and a copy of the original timetable, no doubt!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Mo the caller
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 05:57 AM

Surely it's a misprint :)
Should be 'trail of the lonesome pine'

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:23 AM

Lonesome Pine Special Lyrics (at Mudcat)

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:17 AM

Or, from This site
"After 1916 the railroad from Bristol to Appalachia was advertised as the "Natural Tunnel Route," to promote that great natural wonder through which the trains of the Southern Railway passed.

President Theodore Roosevelt visited the Natural Tunnel and pronounced it the eighth wonder of the world.

At one time there were four daily passenger trains on the Appalachia Division. As other means of transportation came into being the trains were cut to two per day, and later to one train per day. This one train had the name "The Lonesome Pine Special," which was probably taken from the title of the book by John Fox Jr. It ran between Bristol and St. Charles until 1939.

A tornado hit Rye Cove School on May 2, 1929 and one teacher and twelve students were killed and many were injured. The injured were rushed to the hospitals in Bristol and Kingsport. Those taken to the Bristol hospital were transported on the Lonesome Pine Special.

The Southern Railroad from Moccasin Gap to Bristol was abandoned several years ago due to rock and mud slides. The iron rails are now being removed for use elsewhere."

Subject: RE: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:09 AM

According to the list of photo's Here it appears the answer is yes. In the context at that page it appears it may have been a 'special' serving the Lonesome Pine Golf Course, Powell Valley, Va.

Cheers

Nigel (Harnessing the power of Google!)

Subject: Origins: Was there really a train 'Lonesome Pine'
From: GUEST,babypix
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 11:22 PM

Duh. Okay, I know this sounds so ignorant. Please don't hate me 'cause I'm asking. Just want to be accurate on liner notes. Was there actually a train called THE LONESOME PINE SPECIAL? Also, 'Catters have indicated that Sara C. claimed to have written it, while ASCAP lists A.P. Carter as composer? Anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Kindest regards,

Deborah