BS: Euphemistic US Usages

Subject: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 12:16 PM

We've had lots of threads on transAtlantic linguistic differences: but none, I think, oh those which are specifically euphemistic, due to the determination of the Daughters of the Ametican Revolution ~ or maybe it was the Hays Office? ~ to avoid any locution that might bring the blush to the purest of maiden cheeks {tho the question, as to why any pure maiden should even be aware of any conceivable double entendre or arrière-pensée, is in general conveniently glossed over}.

One such which, if true, I find most intriguing, is that the usage "in back of" is not merely a logical extension of "in front of", but was coined to avoid the use of the suggestively ambiguous word [look away NOW, Maiden!] "behind".

And then, of course, there is "rooster" for "cock" {Oops ~ sorry, Missy!}. In another thread, I have just come across, "as proud as a peafowl". Do you guys really say that? Blimey! We call them "peacocks"; did you know that?


More such?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 12:24 PM

I often notice 'tidbit' where 'titbit' is intended.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Crowhugger
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 12:37 PM

Alas I'd have figured "peafowl" to be simply gender-neutrality, therefore quite advanced, almost suffragistic thinking for DAR types of a couple of centuries ago. Well, I can dream, can't I...

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 02:02 PM

How about vitamin water, for sugar solution?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 02:06 PM

Fanny is a girl's name sometimes applied to the part upon which one sits or derriere.

In polite society, front bottom would not have been considered by any name whatever. It is like it doesn't exist as a part of the female anatomy. Among the vulgar the term puss or pussy and twat and later beaver was applied.

Tits, boobs, breast is bosom.

To screw is to have sexual intercourse, also not mentioned except perhaps as wifely duty.

A well brought up lady does not sweat nor even perspire. She glows.

Nittygritty is the state of a naked unwashed slave so is now considered politically incorrect and racist.

Adventuress for prostitute or wild woman and a whoremonger for the ones who give them custom.

My Mamma still says bass ackward instead of ass backward and shit fire and save matches.

Blazes for hell or the Devil and dickens for the Devil.

Cherry is a vulgar term for virgin.

Inexpressibles or unmentionables for underwear

The necessary is the place one evacuates bladder and bowel.

lick finger and lick spittle for ass kissers or brown nosers

Being from Virginia I was still hearing a lot of these terms used on my last visit in 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM

The 'euphemisms' posted by Virginia Tam may be in his family's usage, but most are incorrectly attributed. Two are:

Lickspittle- English, and is defined in Grose's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue (1790s) as a tale-bearer, or a parasite.

Nittygritty- originally Black English, meaning fundamental or gritty. Now widespread. Nothing to do with slaves.

Fanny- (Bottom) is widespread in usage.
A music hall song, 1830s, I've got a little fanny, referred to the vulva. A WW1 army initiation game was "Bat the fanny."

Cherry- in print for virginity from c. 1790.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:45 PM

Peafowl is definitely the gender-neutral (or gender-inclusive or gender-undetermined) version of peacock (male) or peahen (female).

I remember being confused by this term as a kid. When my father mentioned "peafowl" I thought he was saying "peef owl" and describing a type of owl! One that says "peef-peef," I supposed, instead of "hoot-hoot!"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 03:49 PM

On the other hand, if you're going to say "proud as a--" it makes more sense to say "peacock." Peacocks have those beautiful tails to display proudly. I think peahens are rather drab by comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:10 PM

Vance Randolph addressed the topic of euphemisms in his book "Down in the Holler: A Gallery of Ozark Folk Speech" (1953, reprinted 1979). I was very interested because my mother grew up in the Ozarks, and my father, though he came from Kentucky, had speech that was quite similar.

According to Randolph, men could be very plain-spoken amongst themselves, but would be very circumspect about what words they would use in front of women. I remember he specifically mentioned hearing a man say "he-cow" for "bull"!

My parents were not that mealy-mouthed, but I don't remember ever hearing my mother use a "bad word."

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:17 PM

Yeah, I've seen peahens up close. They aren't any prouder than any other female bird. Its the males that are into showing off.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:17 PM

"rooster" for cock is new to me, and I am 88 yars old.

Cock, of course, is ancient. One term I have seen in Grose's dictionary is "cock alley" for the "private" parts of a woman, but I have never heard it in use.

Digression-
I like the Spanish bird and nest for penis and what you stick it into.
The Mexican "wet the brush" = sexual intercourse, but it may be confined to the Mexico City area.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 04:31 PM

Many North Americans are more willing to be blunt about sex than they are about death and money.

People "pass away" or "pass over." Someone killed in battle or a road accident may also be said to have "lost his/her life." I have yet to see an obituary that mentions a lingering death that does not say something about the deceased having "fought a valiant battle" against whatever did him/her in. It is, of course, shameful just to lie down and die.

In our egalitarian society, no one is either rich or poor: there are the "well off" or "prosperous" and the "disadvantaged" or "low-income." It is every bit as rude to ask, "How much do you make in a year?" as it is to introduce oneself as follows: "Hi, there. My name is (whatever). Do you fuck? How do you like me so far?"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:00 PM

Of course the most frequently occurring euphemism in the US is "bathroom" as in "go to the—". It makes a bit more sense here than in the UK; at least our bathtubs and toilets are usually in the same room. But I have heard people say, out of habit, "go to the bathroom" in a public place such as an airport, where there are no bathtubs at all, and hence no bathrooms as such. In public places, the standard term is "restroom" although nobody really goes there to rest. (I wonder what architects and plumbers call the room?)

In America, we use "toilet" to mean the porcelain fixture, but not the room where it is located. I believe in the UK, it means the room as well. Am I right?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:06 PM

Is water closet still in use in the UK? The abbreviation WC.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:09 PM

Isn't toilet also a euphemism though? I'm not sure there is any word in English (and maybe other languages) for the place that isn't that "polite society" could bear

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM

Much of this is regional in the US. We would "go to the toilet" and referred to the room in which the commode was located as "the toilet" back when I was growing up in West Central Illinois. It was also referred to as the bathroom, the privy, the crapper, the outhouse, the latrine (Boy Scouts, from the military) and the backhouse. Note that I've used "commode" because "toilet" could mean either the fixture and the room.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM

Some English say lavatory.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:23 PM

I believe in the UK, "WC" (for "water closet") is used only on signs in places like airports where a lot of foreigners pass through. (I think the same term is used the same way on the continent as well.) Elsewhere, the signs say "Toilets" or—if they want to be a bit more euphemistic—"Ladies" and "Gents."

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 05:55 PM

>Cherry- in print for virginity from c. 1790.

Really? Where is that?

>"rooster" for cock is new to me,

No it it isn't. What is it that crows in British ballads but a "cock"?

>and I am 88 yars old.

You sure don't show it, pal! Keep on truckin'!

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:03 PM

Water closet was a term I heard often as a boy.

Other terms for intercourse:

Getting his ashes hauled.
Getting his corn ground. There is an old song which Cilla Fisher sings about the Miller of Droon where the girl and her Mother both went to get their corn ground.
Getting his horn scrapped
Getting his knob polished.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:04 PM

"rooster" for "cock"

This is not one of the hundreds of euphemisms for the male organ anywhere in North America I have been. Cock is, but it is considered to be vulgar.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:10 PM

"Ladies" and "Gents"
"Women" and "Men"

and my brother's favorite

"Pointers" and "Setters"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:13 PM

Don't recall seeing WC for the 'john' in Europe on my last visit. some time ago. Ladies, gentlemen, toilet, lavatory, Damas, etc., etc., but not WC.
The abbreviation seems mostly used now for World Cup or Weather, Current.

Would someone from UK or the continent comment on this momentous enquiry about current use for loo (the instrument made popular by Thomas Crapper), a word which seems to have lost currency?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:16 PM

The word "toilet" is, itself a euphemism. Initially (i.e., when imported into the English language from the French circa 1660), it referred to matters of dress and cleanliness. To "see to ones' toilette" referred to tidying up and dressing to meet the day. Or it meant that one must go make repairs in one's "toilette," as in when milord's powdered wig gets knocked askew or the whalebone in milady's corset is uncomfortably poking one of her breasts up out of her décolleté. It became a handy euphemism for excusing oneself from the gathering in the drawing room to do a quick hunt for the nearest chamber pot*.

Vestiges of the original meaning continue today when referring to such things as soap, razors, make-up, perfume, et al. as "toiletries."

Don Firth

*Later known as a "thunder mug." (Not a euphemism.)

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:17 PM

"Ladies" and "Gents"
"Women" and "Men"

if those are euphemistic, I don't know the meaning of the word.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 06:21 PM

Signs seen in a Seattle coffeehouse some years ago:

ELTON JOHN.

NEWTON JOHN.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bert
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 07:17 PM

WC ,the correct term, is used by Architects and Engineers.

I remember a heated discussion on Mudcat where folks would not believe that a "cock horse" was so called because of the position it occupies between the rider's legs.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 08:13 PM

US and Canadian euphemism seen in house sale advs.- "great room." This formerly was called the living room. And the media room is where the TV (telly) is placed if it is not in the living room. I forget what the kitchen is called now.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 08:19 PM

"Great room" is a tad pretentious. Brings to mind suits of armor, heraldry, flags sticking out from the wall, musicians in a balcony, huge fireplaces, and that sort of thing. I've seen ads here listing "Entertainment Center" as well; makes me think of "private boxes" with "pretty dancing girls."

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 09:25 PM

Back in the late paleolithic, when I was a kid, there were things called "comfort stations" ---a politer term for "rest rooms", which is a politer term for "toilets" or "bathrooms", which are politer terms for.....

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 10:09 PM

Did anyone mention Conveniences for the places where Men & Women go to relieve themselves? These are not particularly Australian terms

older Australian terms - the most famous of all the Dunny & check out the list of local & international names for this essential item

Google search on Australian dunny

A modern Australian term is bathroom, taken up in the increasingly Americanisation of Australian language. At home or in company we say often we're going to the loo, or we've got to go.

When ya gotta go, does any other country have a National Public Toilet Map

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Dec 11 - 10:23 PM

eu·phe·mism/ˈyo͞ofəˌmizəm/
Noun:        
A mild or indirect word or expression for one too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: JennieG
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:18 AM

An expression which grates on my nerves is "potty mouth" - it's very coy and twee - as is its twin, to "go potty" meaning to relieve oneself. It might be cute in a 2YO, but it's a bit ridiculous in a fully-grown adult.

Cheers
JennieG who lets fly with the occasional naughty word occasionally, but doesn't have (heaven forfend!) a potty mouth

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:45 AM

Would you prefer we say "shit-mouth"? And if we did, wouldn't that be the pot calling the kettle black?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 01:58 AM

feces mouth is the age appropriate term.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:42 AM

Does the OP ask if the euphemisms were created by Americans or merely used by Americans.

My answer was based on usages by Virginians all through my growing up years. There was definitely a divide between polite and vulgar usages depending upon person and setting.

I learned in a diversity and equality course (here in the UK) that nitty gritty was reference to unwashed slaves. Nitty = body lice and gritty = dirty and implying that down to the skin nits and grit was all that clothed the naked slave.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:55 AM

Created, Virginia ~ to avoid having to say unsayable words like "behind" or "cock". That was what I was getting at.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: s&r
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 07:02 AM

Can,t find anything to justify nitty gritty as unwashed slaves, although one reference suggests that the interpretation was invented on a course in Bristol.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 08:35 AM

I think the term "great room" was coined to mean "living room with a high ceiling," that is, double the height of other rooms in the house. It's not the term so much as the design that's pretentious.

I understand the objection to "potty-mouth" but on the other hand, we need a term for people who use obscenities excessively. I can't think of another good term. Any suggestions?

A lot depends on context. A person who would be shy about saying "I need to use the toilet" would probably have no trouble saying "I had the plumber put in a new toilet."

It's not only Americans who use euphemisms. I believe it was the British who invented "spend a penny." True, that's a rather quaint expression, but a lot of the terms we're discussing here are becoming quaint.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Michael
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 08:40 AM

Spending a penny relates to the requirement to put a penny in the slot to open the door of the Public Convenience.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 08:53 AM

Oh, we have lots of euphemisms, from "passed away" to "the smallest room". I was just concerned with those English words, like 'cock' & 'behind' which the USers could not bring themselves to use lest some improper connotation might be suggested, and so replaced with brand new coinages of their own.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 09:06 AM

Nobody seems to have ventured into the 'collateral damage', 'friendly fire' and 'special and extreme rendition' territory.
Can it be that Christmas is nearly on us, I wonder?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 10:47 AM

When you make a list, most euphemisms for delicate parts or functions have perfectly common usages.

It has always bothered me that so many useful words have been co-opted to coyly refer to 'other' things that they become 'naughty' and provoke giggles or embarrassment.

What is wrong with 'pussy' or 'cock' or 'gay' or a dozen other terms which have classic non-vulgar usages? Most people can surely tell from context what is being discussed. Still, even a neutral use of 'one of THOSE words' in a thread here is likely to draw some pun or smarmy remark unrelated to the topic.

You can find entire websites dedicated to euphemistic expressions for 'dirty stuff', but the list of non-ambiguous words for embarrassing topics is all too short.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: GUEST, Eb
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:29 PM

I don't use 'potty mouth'- although it occurs to me that the mindless, knee-jerk, continual, routine use of words and phrases that used to be beyond the pale is fairly juvenile - or shit mouth. I think of it as a 'foul mouth.'

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:41 PM

>USers

Nerdlike euphemism for "Americans." See some other thread from a while back.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 12:48 PM

"Foul mouth" is it! Funny I couldn't think of that term before. I guess I'm used to hearing "potty mouth" in recent years. That being the case, "potty mouth" can't be a euphemism for "foul mouth." If anything, it's a dysphemism, but one based on a juvenile usage: "potty" for "toilet."

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:16 PM

what about "smalls" for underpants? Where did that come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:25 PM

Toilet tongue

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 02:37 PM

Minor, regional and/or obsolete euphemisms abound, they come and go.

Bum is used now by most everyone except Virginal's maiden aunt.





(Sorry! Couldn't help myself.)

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 04:50 PM

Smalls as a description probably came from the older expression "small clothes" ... how far back that goes I'm not sure, but a fair way, I think.
As to "toilette", its literal meaning is "small cloth" and was initially used to describe the cloth covering the chamber pot, or so I was told at some time in my youth. From there it became the pot itself, so euphemisms have always abounded.

I do remember some US/UK moments of incomprehension when I was working in Paris. Someone (American) asked where the mop was. I said it was in the toilet. A little while later the American brandished the mop at me and said how silly I'd been ... of course you wouldn't keep the mop in the toilet, as it would get wet. It had been in the bathroom, of course. Except from my point of view that would have been equally daft, as there was no bathroom. We had some showers, and some toilets, but no baths.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Anne Lister
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 04:51 PM

Sorry - that Guest was me. Unaccountably sans cookie!

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: kendall
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 07:33 PM

I like the one Becca 72 came up with to say that someone died. She said he "Assumed room temperature."

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Joe_F
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 07:46 PM

In America these days, "underwear" is used as a euphemism for "underpants" -- it even takes a plural verb. In my dialect, "underwear" really is as general as it seems to be -- including underpants, undershirts, union suits, panties, etc.

As many have observed, a trouble with euphemisms is that, once well established, they themselves become indelicate, and euphemisms for them have to be found in turn. A spectacular example is documented by the OED: For nearly two centuries, "occupy", which around 1600 had become a slang word for fuck, was avoided in decent usage; at length, good sense prevailed, and today the word can be used without a blush.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bert
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 09:47 PM

..."Assumed room temperature."...

I love it!!!

Personally though I am going to turn into a plastic flower seed.
Ya can't stop Bert from using any opportunity to plug one of his own songs. HEE HEE.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 10:17 PM

My new-age wife has all sorts of ways of talking about death that I don't quite understand. Eleven years ago, she called and said that her husband Jim, one of my best friends, was "singing with the angels." Well, hell, Jim was always singing with somebody. So, I asked her bluntly, "Did he die?"
Yes, she said.

Still and all, I ended up married to Jim's widow, and it's almost ten years we've been married - and I still puzzle about some things she says. But hey, I love her.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 08:59 AM

Some of the allegedly US euphemisms are only ever seen in the US in books written in the UK. 'Behind', of course, is used by everyone over the age of 4 for 'in back of'; young children, for some reason, are taught to use it for their backside. I have never heard 'rooster' used for the male sexual appendage, if that is what the OP is implying. 'Rooster' and 'cock' are used interchangeably for male chickens, although 12-year-old boys might giggle a little when they hear the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 09:21 AM

"I have never heard 'rooster' used for the male sexual appendage, if that is what the OP is implying."
.,,.,..,

No, artbrooks: you miss my point entirely ~ that 'rooster' is a euphemism invented in USA because it cannot be mistaken for a synonym of 'penis', as, idiomatically, 'cock' can. Similarly, 'in back of' cannot, like 'behind', mean 'buttocks'.

Wake Up!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Becca72
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:37 AM

My new favorite euphemism for death I stole from none other than William Shatner during his guest appearance on the show "Psych":

"started a fertilizer business"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 12:54 PM

Becca reminds me there is a poem by e.e. cummings, 'nobody loses all the time', about an uncle of his who tried & failed at every possible form of arable or livestock agriculture.

Eventually he got fed up & committed suicide, and "down went my Uncle Sol and started a worm farm" ...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:21 PM

WOW it was a euphemism, I think now it is just the common word, in Canada and the US at least for a make chicken.

rooster Look up rooster at Dictionary.com
    1772, agent noun from roost (earlier roost cock, c.1600), in sense of "the roosting bird," favored in the U.S. originally as a puritan alternative to cock (and compare roach)

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:26 PM

'rooster' is a euphemism invented in USA because it cannot be mistaken for a synonym of 'penis'

Do you have any historical evidence for this assertion?

This thread is the first I'd heard of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:27 PM

That was a cross-posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:36 PM

Never heard "rooster" for penis in the US or Canada. Where did you find it used? May be local.

Smalls, in Canadian-US auction terminology, applies to small goods such as chinaware and ornaments, as opposed to furniture, etc. Also heard used by store stockists.

Haven't heard smalls applied to male underwear (which does include undershirts in store terminology (US and Canada).
Of course many men only wear "briefs" (frequent term for underpants) and do not wear the undershirts (locally called "vests," dunno where that comes from, may be southern, since my wife from Georgia says they use it down theuh).

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 01:49 PM

Pointer and setter once popular for Mens and Ladies restrooms in bars. Developed white hair and died.
Now stick people or men and women in most restaurants in western Canada, 'ladies' no more. The same in Washington state.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:01 PM

Hmm. I'm still a bit skeptical about the supposed origin of "rooster." If Americans are supposedly so reticent about saying "cock," why are children taught that the rooster says "cock-a-doodle-doo"? There is nothing compelling about that spelling. (I always thought a rooster's crow sounded more like "er-er-er-er-errrrrr.")

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:14 PM

Found this on the online urbandictionary.com-

"The last half inch thrust during doggy style sex. This involves thrusting forcefully with your pelvis and perching up on your toes in order to look like a crowing rooster. It occurs right before ejaculation or to fuck a gay man straight."

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rooster

Seems to be an inner city term. Usage there changes and evolves rapidly.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:27 PM

The Urban Dictionary has other definitions of "rooster." None seem particularly euphemistic.

5." An uncircumsized penis. Originated from the observation that uncircumsized penis' have extra skin like the skin of a rooster's neck.
Jimmy pulled his rooster out of Jordyns ass so quick he left her with a devasting pink sock."

Urban Dictionaries, calendars; available from Amazon

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 02:38 PM

'Never heard "rooster" for penis in the US or Canada. Where did you find it used? May be local.'


No, Q ~~ you have it back to front. The Puritans invented rooster because it DIDN'T mean 'penis' & cock did. Don't you get it!

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:17 PM

Source for Puritans inventing rooster? Probably American origin, date 1822 in OED for it in print, 1772 in Websters; later than Puritans. Roost, meaning a resting place for birds, or perch, dates to the 12th C. in print according to the OED.
Attribution to Puritans anecdotal?

Did rooster originally apply to roosting birds of both sexes and later restricted to the male?

Tis a puzzlement.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 03:21 PM

From Niles' Weekly Register, Volume 7 (Baltimore: H. Niles, 1815), page 192:

The bird of war. Another anecdote is given, by the Baltimore Patriot, of the gallantry and courage of the cock, a bird consecrated for his valor by the ancients to Minerva, the goddess of war. The account of his crowing in the battle of Trafalgar, and on board the Saratoga and Eagle, in the battle of Lake Champlain, attest his martial spirit .... During the bombardment of Fort McHenry, at a time when the explosions were the most tremendous, a rooster mounted a parapet and crowed heartily.


From Letters from America: Containing Observations on the Climate and Agriculture ... by James Flint (Edinburgh: W. & C. Tait, 1822), page 263-264:

[Americans] also use some expressions the original applications of which I have not been able to discover. These I must call Americanisms, and will subjoin some examples.

Movers — People in the act of removing from one place to another.
Fresh — Flood in a river.
Boss — Master.
Hired Girl — Servant Girl.
Hired Man — Servant Man.
Reach — A part of a river that continues for a considerable distance nearly in a straight line.
Raised — Bred or reared, the participle passive of to breed, (frequently applied to the human species.)
Tote— Carry. This is said to be of negro origin.
Carry the horse to water — To take or lead the horse to the water.
Chores — Probably derived from chars; little, odd, detached or miscellaneous pieces of business.
Rowdy — Blackguard.
Truck — Culinary vegetables; sometimes applied to baggage.
A Machinery — A Machine.
Floy — Dirty or foul.
Clever — Honest, or of good disposition.
Creature — Horse.
Rooster, or he-bird — Cock, the male of the hen.


From The Wanderer in America; or, Truth at Home... by Charles Henry Wilson (Thirsk [Yorkshire, England]: Masterman, 1822), page 33-34:

Before I left New York, I found a new vocabulary requisite, for these reformers of Sheridan, Walker, Ash, Johnson, and Bailye, had given a novel reading, not only to things, but re-baptized animals; for a cock, I found a rooster, a female of the dog species, a slut, and other ridiculous Republican innovations.—Thus they "Nick-name God's creatures, and make their wantonness their ignorance."


From A Selection in Prose and Poetry from the Miscellaneous Writings of the Late William Crafts (Charleston [South Carolina]: Sebring and Burges, 1828), page 352:

To see the morning break—but no!
It is the cock's nocturnal crow.
A studious fowl, who rose to say
His lesson ere the peep of day,
And finding many a vagrant elf,
As fond of music as himself,
In a concerto joined their notes together;
The race of feathered birds, and birds without a feather.
The Sybarites were once harass'd
By such a clamorous note,
But soon a city ordinance passed
To cut each rooster's throat.


From a humorous sketch in Literary Port Folio, Issue 26 (Philadelphia: Jesper Harding, 1830), page 206:

"Well then, there's the old rooster, he's seven; the fighting cock is eight, and the bantam is nine—"

* * *
My tentative conclusion: Americans used both "cock" and "rooster" (either interchangeably, or to make some subtle distinction that has been lost), but visiting Britons, encountering the word "rooster" for the first time and thinking it strange, invented a spurious explanation for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 05:10 PM

Thanks, Jim, for searching out and adding those quotes. The OED has only the bare bones.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 05:37 PM

that 'rooster' is a euphemism invented in USA because it cannot be mistaken for a synonym of 'penis'

So "Little Red Rooster" is really about a chicken?
..............................

I'm astonished that no one eseems to have mentioned "bog" as an alternatuive to "loo".

In the middle ages the term of choice in monasteries and castles was "necessarium", which always seems a neat way of putting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bert
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:02 PM

Hi McGrath. I thought that Bog was a British term. I've never heard Americans use it.

I remember a discussion on Mudcat where folks did not believe that the expression "Going to see a man about a dog" was rhyming slang for Bog

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:10 PM

I rather thought that when Hawkeye and his mates in Mash called their grotty tent "the Swamp" it might bave been a nod in the direction of the British expression. (Do Australians use it?)

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:27 PM

Anna Green Winslow, "Diary" (March 14, 1772) p. 45: Their other dish...contain'd a number of roast fowls — half a dozen, we suppose, & all roosters at this season no doubt.


New-York Herald (June 30, 1802): "Rooster" - the usual appellation with the good country-folks of New-England for a certain "domestic fowl...remarkable for his gallantry, pride, and courage."

Clearly the male of the species is intended.

"Rooster" pretty obviously abbreviates another, obsolete synonym, "roost-cock," for which OED has numerous examples from 1606 to 1885.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bert
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:34 PM

"the Swamp" I never heard that one, though I watched MASH a lot, you could be right, or it could be parallel evolution.

When I was in the cadets at school we called the latrines "Slash Points"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 06:58 PM

At a field camp in Texas, we called the latrine the pit. Composed of parallel trenches with separation for walkways, and boards for the seating.
I have heard "bog" in Canada, but from ex-soldiers who served part-time in Britain. The term does not seem to have been picked up in North America.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 10:39 PM

I'm sure there is a PhD thesis possible about the connection and etymology of rooster & cock and whether the Puritans are responsible...or to what degree... but it IS the case that most of us no longer say 'rooster' in order to avoid saying cock. Rooster is just a common usage, and those delicate souls who cannot bear saying 'cock' will avoid it for any reason.
It is sad that anyone can find a simple word, used in classic way, to be offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:23 PM

With regard to the phrase "nitty gritty", I very much agree with the comments that that phrase has NOTHING to do with enslaved Africans or with lice.

After reading those comments on this thread and elsewhere online, I was motivated to write a post on my cultural blog about that phrase. That post includes an excerpt that traces the erroneous but oft repeated claim about "nitty gritty & the African slave trade. That post also includes information on the earliest documented use of "nitty gritty" (a 1937 record entitled The Nitty Gritty Dance), and of course includes references to the three 1960s African American Rock & Roll/R&B songs that popularized that phrase (two by Shirley Ellis and one by Gladys Knight & The Pips). I also embedded two videos of that song in that post -sound files of the hit song by Shirley Ellis, and the Gladys Knight and the Pips song.

Here is part of my comment about what "nitty gritty" means in the context of those records:

"In the context of dancing, "gettin right down to the real nitty gritty" means more than "getting to the heart of the matter or the basic essentials". When it comes to dancing, "gettin down to the real nitty gritty" means to dance REAL GOOD. It also means to be real in the way that you dance - to put aside fake societals notions of being stiff, or refined, or too controlled in the way you move. Gettin down to the real nitty gritty means to get FUNKY. "Funky" means to be hip, cool, hot, smokin, ace, fly, dynomite, the bomb, off the hook, off the chain, the shizzle, the sh*t, ill, sick, and any other superlative descriptor that originated or will originate from African Americans. creativity. But a person is funky on the dance floor because they have allowed themselves to be real (to get down to their basic essence) and not worried about them working up a sweat and stanking up the place. ("Stanking" here is purposeful Black talk which means "really stinking"). People who are funky dancers don't smell good but they don't worry about that because their focus is gettin down on the dance floor (with "getting down" meaning to move down low, but also to work the dance - to show off, to out dance other people)."

That blog post can be found at http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2011/12/real-meaning-of-nitty-gritty.html

Best wishes,

Azizi Powell

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:29 PM

The term "peafowl" was used in this thread and it referred to us. Since one of us is male and the other female,"peafowl" was used to refer to us collectively. This would be the correct term to use when referring to two or more of these colorful birds if both sexes were represented therein.

It wasn't used as a euphemism!

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: JennieG
Date: 14 Dec 11 - 11:40 PM

Foul mouth has been a term used here for a long time. Sending the dog outside to "go potty" makes me smile....Ozzie (and I think British) usage of going potty means someone who has gone mad. Dogs just lift their leg or squat, no pots are involved.

Terms for the chamber pot are also rife: po, guzunder (as in, it goes under the bed), pot, potty.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Michael
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 05:55 AM

My granny called it 'the Sunday Hat'. And going to the outside WC was 'going down the yard'.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:11 AM

When I was a teen in the 70s the loo was usually referred to a the 'bog' also the guys would say that they were going to 'take a leak' or a 'slash' or 'splash their boots'. After a hard night on the beer they would often use the term for vomit as a 'technicoloured yawn'.

Being female I would refer to using the loo as 'spending a penny' which was refering to the days when you had to use a penny in the slot to access outside public conveniences, it has always stuck for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:24 AM

"Tap a kidney"...urinate

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:28 AM

Kendall, I see "tap a kidney" not as a euphemism but merely as colorful speech.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 09:37 AM

Than I guess that "go recycle coffee/beer" would be as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 10:03 AM

If you said to an American audience "Umpah! Umpah!"

Would they realise they were required to reply, "Stick it up yer jumper!"

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:05 PM

No.

In fact, we wouldn't even know what "stick it up your jumper!" meant, though it would be easy enough to guess. (Same for "jacksie.")

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 03:13 PM

"Stick it up your sweater"? Makes no particular sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:30 PM

jumbuck?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 04:55 PM

To confuse things further, "Jumpers" don't mean the same garment in the USA as in the UK (and I imagine Australia - though the presence of kangaroos might add further confusion there I suppose.)

I don't think there's actually any double entendre intended with the phrase anyway - I'd say it's just an example of nonsense rhyming.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 05:20 PM

"Umpah! Umpah!"

"Stick it up yer jumper!"

Mere nonsense doggerel....?   a thousand times nay! its an ontological mindset, the key to existentialism and the meaning of universe...

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:02 PM

No ~ 'stick it up your jumper' [with or without its preceding 'Umpahs'] has always been understood here to be a minced form of 'stick it up your arse' ~ as in the old music hall exchange,

"How do you make a Maltese cross with one match?"

"I don't know ~ how do you make a Maltese cross with one match?"

"Light it and stick it up his jumper!"

"I do not wish to know that ~ kindly leave the stage!"

LoL [or not]

~M~

& of course Al is absolutely right too above about the ontological significance ~~ and existential and epistemological to boot...

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:19 PM

Dear MGM - my wife is going on a holiday for a week or so with some friends - so I'm free for a week or in the new year - lets meet up for a curry or a drink

al

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Dec 11 - 11:36 PM

Lovely suggestion, Al. Have PM'd response.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Michael
Date: 17 Dec 11 - 05:09 PM

Dear Al, Jamaica?

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 02:25 PM

Peculiar re the nitty gritty thing... perhaps I should tell the training and development team that they are wrong about that term. That it is not a racist term about slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Alice
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 07:52 PM

I don't know anyone in the USA (and I've lived here all my life) who is afraid of saying the word "cock". This thread just seems to be another lame excuse for complaining about Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Alice
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 08:03 PM

It is almost 2012. Time to stop thinking about the US as if the Puritans just landed here.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Dec 11 - 08:58 PM

Them damn Puritans came from England- send them back, I say!

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:53 AM

Maybe, Alice ~~ but the word "rooster" doesn't even exist here, except in an American context. What did your Puritan forebears invent it for, if not to avoid saying a word they found offensive? What I was talking of in OP-ing this thread was historical semantics: context of certain of your usages which differ from our traditional, older, ones. No need to be paranoid!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:04 AM

As I showed in several quotations above (14 Dec 11 - 03:21 PM), Americans in the early 1800s used both "rooster" and "cock," sometimes in the same sentence. I don't know why, but it isn't uncommon for a language to contain synonyms. Not every pair of synonyms needs to be explained by assuming one is a euphemism for the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 10:50 AM

Perhaps American English was influenced by Dutch, in which "Rooster" means "gridiron, grill, griddle" (akin to roaster). Perhaps a rooster was a chicken fit to be roasted—as opposed to a cock, which was kept for other purposes.

From A New and Complete Dictionary of Terms of Art by Egbert Buys (Amsterdam: Kornelis de Veer, 1768), page 199:

To BARBECU'E , (Ind.) to dress a Hog whole, by splitting it to the Back-bone, and broiling it upon a Gridiron. Een Varken langs het Ruggebeen ophakken, en heel op de Rooster braaden.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 11:52 AM

"rooster
    1772, agent noun from roost (earlier roost cock, c.1600), in sense of "the roosting bird," favored in the U.S. originally as a puritan alternative to cock"

Online Etymology Dictionary

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=rooster

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 12:23 PM

Wikipedia English - The Free Encyclopedia
A rooster, or a cock, is a male chicken (Gallus gallus) with the female being called a hen. Immature male chickens of less than a year's age are called cockerels. The oldest term is "cock," from Old English coc. It is sometimes replaced by the term "cockerel" in the United Kingdom and Ireland. In North America, Australia and New Zealand "rooster" (a relative neologism) is almost always used, occasionally cockerel. "Cock" is in general use as the name for a male of other species of bird, for example "Cock sparrow." "Roosting" is the action of perching aloft to sleep at night, and is done by both sexes. In the United States, "rooster" is preferred due to sexual connotations with the word "cock".

my italics

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 04:03 PM

Well, I can't speak for Wiki, but there have been rather a lot of USians who say that's a load of rooster crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 05:26 PM

On what grounds, Art? In denial, in the face of those two most respectable reference works I have cited in my last two posts? But why?   Nothing to be ashamed off if your forebears in the mid-C18 were a bit mealy-mouthed and their foolish coinage has caught on in your usage to this day.

Don't you, nevertheless, think it must mean something that, pretty well alone among US coinages (most of which our trendies and western-worshippers can never wait a second to adopt as their own), just that particular one has never achieved the least currency over here, but is regarded by one and all as an oddness and an eccentricity?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Bert
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 05:49 PM

This rooster/cock has just about been done to death. One might suppose that they are the only two words in the US vocabulary.

Let us move on to the rubber/condom/eraser controversy.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 06:47 PM

Agreed, this rooster-cock business has become a turkey (road-kill at that).
Lots of anecdotal guessing in that *peer-less "etymological" dictionary, and Wiki does not belong in a class with the OED.
*lacking peer review.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Dec 11 - 08:18 PM

Well, Brits say Americans say 'rooster' because they don't want to use the word 'cock'. Americans says they use the two words interchangeably. I'd be more inclined to believe the ones who speak the American rather than the British dialect of English.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:55 AM

Nobody said they still solely say that because they don't want to say the other. Who denied that the two co-exist now? All I said was that prim & genteel distaste for the original alternative was the origin in 1752 of the word, still unused except in US & the Antipodes.

Before indulging in paranoid denials, would it not be a good idea to ascertain precisely what allegations you are responding to? Or is that not the Amurrican way?

Enough already ~~ it is all a lot of rooster...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 03:36 AM

... and moreover the word, unlike most ad-hoc-created neologisms, has survived for 250 years and remains current: which appears to me to suggest that there are still many who would rather use 'rooster' than 'cock', for whatever motivation, or the word would long since have vanished. Can you deniers of any euphemistic intent really not see that?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 09:45 AM

I wonder about the word "euphemism".

Let's assume that "rooster", say 250 years ago, was a way of avoiding an embarrassing homonym with "cock" as a word for "penis". That is, "rooster" was at that time a euphemism.

When, if ever, does an original euphemism become what I'll call "a primary word"? I'm 81 years old now, and in all of my my life and memory (over 3/4 of a century) the ordinary word for a male chicken, without any sense of avoidance, has been "rooster" That is, to me at least, "rooster" is not a euphemism but "a primary word".

I suggest that a euphemism is a word consciously used to avoid using another word which is disfavored. "Rooster", I think, has generally lost its euphemistic status in the U.S.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Alice
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 11:33 AM

The intent of this thread seems to be the idea that Americans are prudish, like Puritans in the 1500's, so euphemisms abound in American English.

Hugh Hefner, internet porn, and the Kar-trashians, I mean Kardashians... how can anyone think that Americans use euphemisms like the Puritans may have in the 16th century.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Alice
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 12:28 PM

Euphemisms in America now are used more likely when talking about death or politics rather than sex. They are often used in an attempt to manipulate the language for political reasons, such as hunger being called food insecure, and poor called underprivileged.

Subject: RE: BS: Euphemistic US Usages
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Dec 11 - 05:07 PM

Continuing to dissect the roadkill, I don't know why insistence is put on the English Puritan immigrants' use of euphemisms. Those islanders soon lost their dialect, as it was diluted by all the other dialects and the North European languages of others who came, as they labored in the new lands.
Any creditable source that these Puritan immigrants used any euphemisms at all?
Any creditable source for "rooster" at the time of the pilgrims? None in print for 100 years or so after they showed up.