Martin Carthy on a Desert Island

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 01:31 PM

the above post on reflection might appear to be a criticism of Martin,Martin is an excellent musician and singer and a charming person WHO DOES DESERVE TO GET NATIONAL RECOGNITION, it is not meant to be , it is meant to be a criticism of those people who decide who should be chosen to appear on radio or television programmes., AND WHO VERY RARELY CHOOSE ANYONE WHO MIGHT CHALLENGE THE POLITICAL ESTABLISHMENT. ie someone like Pete Seeger

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 01:20 PM

In my opinion, The political establishment and the media encourage people who appear on the surface to be apolitical , this might explain why Pete Seeger, OR leon Rosselson have never been asked to be on Desert Island Discs.
    it is difficult for everyone to know what is the best way to promote Folk Music, maybe I am wrong, and an apolitical approach is right, because that way Folk Music is given a platform by the establishment because it is seen to be non controversial or safe.
   on the other hand if a controversial approach was adopted perhaps there would be higher ratings, someone years ago had the guts to give Pete Seeger a tv programme [rainbow quest] which gave us songs like this,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 11:34 AM

the connection is the posts above and it is nearly all there in DID.

this is a conversation we are having and drift is inevitable. Some of us like to encompass the whole, rather than pick a rant and bore everyone with it. If Martin were to engage here he would have an opinion and it would be a considered one.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 11:03 AM

I hope this doesn't mean that if we ignore him, he will drop dead.

I dunno..... the church's property in gateshead, the bible, Martin C, greedy people......the logic is getting tenuous.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:58 AM

Martin is on record, many times, as saying "You can do anything, anything to Folk music and it will survive. Anything. Except ignore it"

and in my book you can say anything you want about Martin, Anything. And he will survive.

And that probably goes for the bible. (I say as a devout atheist)

and greedy people too for that matter.

It ain't the bible that causes the problems, it is the people wot thumps it.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 05:36 AM

I noticed that as well. I just wondered whether it spoke volumes about English folk music...

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: melodeonboy
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 03:40 AM

I found it very interesting for such an icon of English traditional music to have songs in other languages as his first three choices. Very eclectic! The Genovese song was amazing!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 08:11 PM

Cribbs Causeway, eh? Jeez, I wish the good Lord would come and bless that 'orrible bit of the M5 that runs right past it. Not asking much. Just Fridays would do...

I bought some fish there once in Marks 'n' Sparks. Holy mackerel!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 07:54 PM

I agree with every word Dick

The church has property in Gateshead.

Therefore the Bible should not be on Desert Island Discs.

Perhaps all this time you're spending in Ireland is having an effect on you.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:24 PM

Enough is enough.

I think I'll leave you to it.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 03:47 PM

Is it I, Lord? Is having a bit of fun at the Bible's expense always "negative"? Does it deserve more reverence than we're giving it? If so, sez who?

Steve (non-Christian who has already been condemned as blasphemous...bit negative, that, no?)

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 02:13 PM

never mind the content its wonderfully written.
Hitler was a very good orator, never mind what he had to say.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 01:18 PM

Totally agree with Hilo about the negative views expresssed. The King James BIble whatever your religious beliefs is wonderfully written

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Harry Basnett
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 11:48 AM

I was at Fylde in '82 when Eliza joined the Watersons on stage...

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 11:37 AM

But where would all these homeless people go?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:46 AM

I ery much enjoyed Martin Carthy on DID.. wonderful man, great choices. I always find that people who truly love Music, love a wide variety of it...He certainly has eclectic taste..
I would like to say, in the politest possible way..that I am bored rigid by a lot of the negativity I see on Mudcat. I am tired of the anti Bible, anti "artsy farsty", anti this, that and the other. If you disagree with the format of the Programme, don't listen, but please do not belabour the rest of us with your rants.
I do not mean to offend, but please, spare us.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:32 AM

but it wouldn't be the same game.
maybe not in the case of cleudo. but the role of the church has become entwined with the establishment, the church of england and its capitalist holdings are listed below
    yes, it would, the game is called capitalism, the church and the bible is part of that game, however there are some dedicated ministers who do actually follow Christs principles.

    News
   

    Catherine Boyle
    The Guardian, Friday 28 April 2006        

The Church Commissioners' 56-page report on the financial state of the Church of England released yesterday, made for, well, not particularly interesting reading really. It's the sort of thing journalists read, digest and regurgitate in highly condensed form so the rest of the population can learn the main points and get on with watching The Apprentice. One of the more fascinating parts of the report, however, concerned the Anglican church's property portfolio, which comprises 120,000 acres in rural areas alone.

The church owns large tracts of land in cathedral cities such as Canterbury, Ely, Peterborough and York and in towns such as Huntingdon and Kelmscott. More recently, it has invested in industrial estates in Swindon and Waltham Cross and shopping areas including the Cribbs Causeway Centre in Bristol. Its interests also spread to European property, with a stake in ING Property Fund Central Europe.

What is more, the Commissioners have just gained planning permission for part of the Ashford Great Park estate, where the deputy prime minister is hoping to take time out from working on his dance moves to build some of his much-vaunted affordable housing.

The church even owns property in London's West End - 15% of its commercial portfolio, in fact, mainly within a shared interest in the Pollen estate. It has also begun to capitalise on the need for parking space in the capital, netting £19m last year from selling 99-year leases on garage spaces.

The CofE isn't neglecting property up north either. It holds a 10% interest and associated land in the MetroCentre in Gateshead, the largest shopping and leisure centre in Europe. The centre provides "shoppertainment" including an indoor theme park, an 11-screen cinema and a bewildering array of shops open seven days a week from 10am to 9pm (or 5pm on Sundays - glad to see they're showing a bit of respect). It's reassuring that the Commissioners are looking after the church's estimated £4.3bn well, returning 19.1% on their investments last year. Now all they have to do is get some of the thousands of Sunday shoppers at Gateshead into church.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:23 AM

Singers never retire.

They keep right on to the end of the road.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 09:05 AM

About one person in 16 goes to church for worship in the UK. Although almost 60% of people claim to be Christian, as correctly stated by Dave, only 34% say they "believe in God", oddly. :-)

Lies, damn lies, statistics and Christians!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Big Al whittle
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 08:39 AM

The bible is there because its in the rules. Its a game. Like the lead pipe in Cluedo.

You could alter cluedo to include plastic piping, but it wouldn't be the same game.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 08:17 AM

"No it doesn't."

Depends if you're interested in what people really think rather than just putting them into a convenient box. You're not a politician are you?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:08 AM

I remember Toni well, I played his club several times, it was there i met Don Partridge, and a guy who used to run a 50p folk club who had been run over by a lorry [was it derroll?, lots of characters in those days

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: SunrayFC
Date: 15 Jan 13 - 04:00 AM

Yes, I remember Tony Savage at the Ampersand, Barwell.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Dave the cookieless
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 02:53 PM

"Latest census shows that nearly 60% of UK residents still class themselves as Christian"

That needs a little clarification.

No it doesn't. Therer was a census in 2011 in which 59.something % of people said they were Christian. What could be unclear? Are all the figures in the census to be subjected to levelling? :-)

But I agree about sticking to the point. Sorry - My last word about bibles etc.

DtG

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 02:47 PM

"Martin Carthy on a Desert Island

Sounds like a bloody good idea to me."
not as good as all the parasite politicians

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: alex s
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 02:08 PM

Martin Carthy on a Desert Island

Sounds like a bloody good idea to me.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Simon Ritchie
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 01:59 PM

For people who missed the programme and for those in forn parts, it's on the BBC website and can be played using an Internet near you. They keep most stuff for a week but I believe they keep editions of DID forever (or until they get bored with this website palavar).

See www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pt8dj for a recording of the programme plus an annotated list of the tracks he asked for.

Concerning the discussions about the bible, unlike Martin, most of the people who go on this programme are image-obsessed celebs, politicians and other members of the "great and good" and they choose everything they say with the audience in mind. If allowed, I'm guessing 95% of them would ask for the bible and/or the complete works of Shakespeare even today. ("because I would find it sooo inspirational darling")

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Simon Ritchie
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 01:39 PM

> They're pretty strict about allowing practical things as luxuries.

There was an actress who asked for an ocean liner (the QE2, I think). When challenged that it was of practical use, she said something like "without the sailors ...."

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 01:12 PM

Complete works of Dickens, which was rather cheating. And of course his guitar.

The Bible? English literature, including folk music, is built on the King James Version, like it or loathe it.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 01:09 PM

As long as you can find a grassy slope you can do without toilet paper. Tsk.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 01:04 PM

It was the language of the King James bible that appealed to him. I wouldn't be surprised if the Gideons have already placed a bible on every desert island.

Giving every castaway a bible - and the works of Shakespeare - is just a device to broaden the conversation and give castaways the opportunity to reveal a little bit more about themselves.

Perhaps they should give them a supply of toilet paper too. Somebody once asked for his own personal parking space. Has anybody ever complained that their luxury item never arrived?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:52 PM

I'm not a christian but I love the language of the King James Bible and it's full of wonderful, quotable phrases. If I were on a desert island I'd take the time to read the Old Testament (I've read the rest).

BTW, I missed the end of the prog. What was his chosen book and luxury item?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:33 PM

Now, put your Bibles etc to one side, can we stick to the point please...?
   the point is Martin was asked about the bible and he asked for   a king james bible, my point is that the king james bible might be written in a different style, but it is still a book of dogma, that has been used by many so called christians as an excuse for wars, this same bible has also been used by clerics to terrify ordinary people, and to control and frighten ordinary people into behaving in a subservient manner which suits and suited the wealthy establishment., those same 17 percent of the people who own 84 percent of the wealth, the sooner the importance of all books of dogma are diminished the better.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:13 PM

I was right about Sam Larner.

But what came across was his enthusiasm.

I always remember him at a post festival party in Wellington NZ. Some of us gathered around a piano and he was there singing something from the Presly songbook (or of that ilk) and smiling like all of us.

Eclectic he certainly is.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 12:01 PM

"Latest census shows that nearly 60% of UK residents still class themselves as Christian"

That needs a little clarification.

In a poll conducted by YouGov in March 2011 on behalf of the BHA, when asked the census question 'What is your religion?', 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked 'No religion'.

When the same sample was asked the follow-up question 'Are you religious?', only 29% of the same people said 'Yes' while 65% said 'No', meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked 'Christian' said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,SRD
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:54 AM

Roy Plomley was much stricter over the luxury item; it used to be that a grand piano wasn't allowed as it could be used as a shelter but an upright was Ok.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:30 AM

I bet there was a tour bus with Steeleye Span, and perhaps Imagined Village. But that comment in the programme did make me smile.

Sidmouth Festival in the ... err ... 1980s? did a Desert island Discs event with various people.....

Now, put your Bibles etc to one side, can we stick to the point please...?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST, Black belt caterpillar wrestler I
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 11:22 AM

Stupid phone!

Martin once did a DID on folk on two. Perhaps that is what some people are remembering. First choice then was Isobel Bailey.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 10:05 AM

Latest census shows that nearly 60% of UK residents still class themselves as Christian, Dick so there is no assumption about it!

I would also point out that the Bible is not a Christian tome - Only the new testament comprising the 4 popular gospels, the acts of the apostles, Revelations and assorted other bits can be claimed as Christian. By far the biggest section, the old testament, is pre-christian and can and has be used by other religions that may or may not necessarily believe that JC was the man!

But, as pointed out, it is all academic anyway :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 09:57 AM

The bit that made me smile was when Kirsty asked him about the strains of touring - "getting on the tour bus every day". The tour bus! What a sweet romantic view this lass has of the life of a folk musician.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 09:44 AM

there is an assumption that the majority of people in the uk are christians, what about the atheists and agnostics.
   the bible is a hotch potch of contradictions and has clearly been put together by a number of different people, its interpretation has caused a lot of trouble and on occasion war, it is a book of propoganda, which has been used to control people, in my opinion the fact that the king james version may be written in a different style is a red herring, it is a book that has been interpreted.
much the same can be said for the literal interpretation of the koran.
   I have nothing against Christians who practise humanitarian/christian principles, what i object to are books of dogma whether they are maos little red book , the bible or anything else

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 09:12 AM

Blasphemy my arse!


(Geddit? Toilet paper and I said blasphemy my...)

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Christian
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM

"the best thing to do with the bible[imo] if one is on a desert island is to use it for starting a fire, whether its the king james version or any other" GSS

"Nah, leave the Bible alone! It means you won't have to take toilet paper as your luxury item!" SS

Blasphemy. You 2 guys seem to be at odds over every other topic, but on this you appear united.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 08:41 AM

that's under half percent - we're under represented.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Nicholas Waller
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 08:20 AM

"HAVING TO TAKE A BIBLE WAS ALL VERY WELL IN 1943" -

Nobody has to take the bible or Shakespeare, it was just that in the early days it got tedious because lots of people said they'd take either one or the other, so the producers said, oh FFS, here, pretend you get those already, now pick something else.

Martin Carthy asked for Dickens (a notional "Complete Works") as his favourite book - the 63rd person to ask for him. 27 have gone for Jane Austen, 18 for Tolkien.

For luxury, 58 people have asked for a guitar like Carthy, 185 for a piano, 92 for pen and paper, 63 for bed, 88 for bath, and 239 for various kinds of drinks or drink-dispensing devices (crates of booze, coffee machine etc).

As you can see, you can data-mine the Desert Island Discs website for nuggets of info, searching by castaway, musical choice, book choice, luxury, occupation etc - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/desert-island-discs/find-a-castaway# .   From there you can Listen Again to archived editions, going back at least to the 1960s.

For instance, there have been 14 folk musician episodes (out of 2925 total), according to their classification, including Peggy Seeger, Joan Baez, Mike Harding (from 1982) and Christy Moore - though one or two, eg Delia Murphy from 1952, are not listenable-again-to.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:38 AM

In these shows the records are often cut to a minimum play but here were given fuller weight perhaps because they were seen to deserve it. I could have listened to a lot more of Martin himself.
Perhaps a full show on the Radio 4 Archive programme?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:37 AM

you don't have to have the bible. the first person i heard ask for something else (maybe buddhist if i remember right?) was sandie shaw and i have heard someone else refuse it since then. i like to listen to programmes from the archives, in bed with the papers on sunday morning - you can get anyone you want on i-player so you don't have to listen to this week's programme if it's someone you aren't interested in. martin carthy seems like a good guy but i did find his choice of music pretty heavy going...

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 07:02 AM

I only caught from just before Sam Larner onwards but what impressed me most was Martin's obvious enthusiasm and knowledge. I have always liked him since he did our club a couple of times back in the 80s and he was always the perfect gentleman and consummate professional then. Whether you like his choices or music or not I don't think you can take away the fact that he is a thoroughly good egg :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 06:29 AM

Yes it was,I think that he had a fairly high regard for Toni, note the spelling. I alerted Cynthia to the broadcast A fabulous prog. A truly great man.I walked up London Rd in Leicester with him a couple of months ago, in the space of a hundred yards he was recognised and revered by two people. He was clearly quite chuffed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy on a Desert Island
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 06:11 AM

I love the fact that Martin remembered to mention a great folk club organiser - the wonderful Tony Savage.