BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself

Subject: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 May 13 - 11:58 PM

OK, so I really like beer and pizza and Canadian whisky and red meat. And I admit that I don't get enough sleep, or enough exercise. And yeah, I probably should lose at least thirty pounds.

But hey, I AM very active, and I eat lots of vegetables, and I go on hikes but not as often as I used to. So, yeah, I don't think I live a life that's THAT unhealthy.

The alarm clock, however, rang Monday. I've been kinda numb on the left side of my body all week, with occasional slurred speech and a numb circle around my mouth that feels like I just got out of the dentist's chair. And I went to the doctor today (Thursday), and he says I should have been there Monday. And he sent me for tests that show there's lots of gunk in my arteries. So, he's thinking it was a stroke or at least a TIA.

So, I guess all this means I'm going to have to end my decrepit life and live more virtuously, and it doesn't sound like fun at all. Already, somebody jumped on me and told me I need to do Gerson Therapy, which involves drinking juicified grasses and taking coffee enemas. I'm sure others will flood me with all kinds of weird diets and procedures. But hey, I don't believe in miracles. And I don't believe in Health Gurus. My lovely wife believes in all those things and has a lifestyle akin to that of the Virgin Mary, but she doesn't seem a whole lot healthier than I am.

So, what can I do to lose weight and lose the gunk in my veins, that's practical and reasonable and not overly obsessive-compulsive? What I need are times for somebody who's lazy about his health and not a believer in miracle cures.

Help!!! I want to keep living, but I still want to have fun doing it!!

And as for the coffee enemas, No, thank you, Sir!!!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 31 May 13 - 12:40 AM

Joe, think quality of life, not quantity. I do the wrong things, (but my blood test numbers are good), though not to excess. We all need to pay attention to health issues, but not at the expense of your life's quality. It's a hard question, but this is something to think about.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 13 - 12:50 AM

Ah, a man after my own heart! Thanks, Phil.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:07 AM

Read the line of research that began with Dr. Lawrence Craven regarding asprin.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

He was our family GP


and delivered me.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:32 AM

Hey Joe!

Warning shots across the bows are the best way to get you to wake up and smell the coffee, that's smell, not. ....

Defurring arteries and improving flow of blood sounds a good idea and I am sure there are many pharma companies willing to take your money. That said, statins are a good thing. I started them as a rite of passage on my 50th. Being married to a doctor rather than thinking about it led me to that.

My quack theory is that if you worry about your shape condition or future, you introduce stress anyway and that brings you down regardless of your physical shape. Relaxing helps. Realising you are lucky to get a warning helps.   Stirring the treacle of advice? That's another matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:54 AM

Joe:

Here is a suggestion. All you have to do at this site is log in what you eat and how much exercise you get. We know it sounds like a big drag but it takes each of us less than 15 minutes a day.

Pretty soon you will develop a keen sense of how many calories are in the foods you are considering eating and you can evaluate if it's worth it. Tonight we went out to dinner (it's Jerry's birthday) and had a fine dinner with wine and ice cream for dessert and neither of us exceeded our allotted calories for the day.

We've been on this program for a little over one year. Jerry has lost 40 pounds and Bev has lost 63 (no typo!)and we're both still losing. At Jerry's last checkup his LDL was 51 (also no typo!).

This program works! Try it for a while and see how it does for you.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 May 13 - 02:46 AM

The healthy living advice is all well and good, and if you can avoid the more extreme quackery can be a big help.

The important thing is that a stroke (which you apparently have experienced) nearly always is the result of a specific condition that usually is treatable with the assistance of a competent physician.

The problem here is that there are a fairly large number of specific conditions that can produce very similar symptoms, and each condition needs its own primary treatment. You will need professional help to find which one needs to be emphasised in treatment for your own case, although the good docs probably will want to work with you on a "spectrum of conditions."

For people who are accustomed to a "not too unhealthy" lifestyle, most doctors will not expect extreme lifestyle changes, and that shouldn't be your first concern, since available medicines are fairly effective. The lifestyle things are what you do before it happens, but can't do much to change what's broke once the first one comes along.

High blood pressure is a first concern in most cases.

High cholesterol often accompanies, and contributes to, high blood pressure.

Both of the above can contribute to "peripheral artery disease" (PAD) which is quite common in those of us who've reached the age of wisdom. This is difficult to treat with any real effectiveness.

Depending on the diagnosis of the specific kind of event you've had, anticoagulants may be indicated (anything from aspirin to coumadin).

TIA indicates an irregularity in heart rhythm, and isn't really a direct cause of stroke, but the irregularity causes disruption of flow which is what really causes the damage, according to our consultants. It does increase the likelihood of subsequent strokes, so should be controlled.

Lots of "elders" have breathing capacity difficulties that may not be too much of note but can be a contributing factor, so a diagnosis of COPD or Apnea becomes a more significant concern once you've had a "stroke event."

Many people who exhibit the spectrum of contributing factors also display some edema, which can have very significant effects on circulation even if not caused by cardiac events, so diuretics are sometimes helpful.

Unfortunately, this is all the latest information from the handouts at our best local facility this week, since my most treasured other happens to be in the rehab clinic for her second such "event." (Progress has been better than we/I really expected when it hit. We're more optimistic now.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:06 AM

Joe,

Since early April I have lost 15 pounds. I have 25-30 more pounds to lose. I'm not dieting per se, I'm doing an every-other day fast. I got the idea from Michael Mosley on a PBS program.

Here is a full-length program of his, to get the general idea of the work he is doing. The program I saw in early April was Horizon: Eat, Fast, and Live Longer. It has expired for online viewing, but may come up in a repeat. Here is the promo for the program. I notice there are some "alternate day fasting" videos on YouTube, if you poke around for more.

The program I saw includes an interview with a researcher who has been working to reduce the level of a growth hormone that most people who eat a modern Western diet have in their blood serum. If you're not growing any more, excess growth hormone can find other things to grow - like cancer cells. The researcher was looking for ways to lower that hormone level, and found that eating regular food, whatever you normally eat every other day, and on the alternate "fasting" days eat only about 500 calories of fruit or veggies, overall your hormone level drops down to acceptable levels. The side effect for those who are overweight is that they lose weight in the process. The reason the hormone levels drop is because if you're a red meat eater, you end up eating less meat and it is the metabolizing of meat that promotes the hormone.

I often find on weekend days that I have gone through half of the day without eating, just drinking tea, so I figured I could adopt this alternate day fasting plan. I learned after a couple of weeks to be careful about how much protein I eat on the regular diet days. Too much and you'll find yourself constipated, like can happen with the Adkins diet. Getting exercise is important, but I get the usual sorts, mowing the lawn, climbing stairs at work, walking the dogs.

I haven't had any blood sugar issues. I sometimes divide the 500 calorie target into a couple of small snacks, mid-afternoon and evening. I've been drinking a cup of bouillon on fasting days (even though it is beef bouillon, the amount of beef itself is minuscule) because I can end up a bit cramped if I don't get enough salt.

I do still have an evening scotch sometimes (though be careful if it is a fasting day - it goes through your system fast - keep it a wee dram).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:14 AM

Go plant-based - people who stop eating animal products have *vastly* reduced occurrences of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, inflammatory illnesses, pretty much anything associated with SAD (the standard American diet).
Walk.
Laugh.
Drink water.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:16 AM

Joe, I had a TIA a couple of years ago. I've never smoked, have been walking about 6-8 miles every morning 5 days a week in the ten years I've been retired and was on about 14 units of booze a week and on a low fat, low sugar, low salt diet- so go figure! Fortunately I only suffered speech loss for about an hour and after tests I was put on drugs to regulate my blood pressure and lower my chloresterol. I now try to have 3 no alcohol days a week and am down to about 8 units (except when in Greece!) and keep up my walking. I monitor my BP twice a day twice a week and see the doc twice a year after blood tests to monitor the meds are working. Seems to be working so far!
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:56 AM

Agree with CS. I've been a vegetarian (I do make an exception for fish now and then) almost 20 years and maintain a weight that's 20 to 25 lb. lower than my carnivore days.
Investing in a gym membership is also a good way to go. The financial outlay, about 30 a month, has been offset by my lack of need for prescription medicine and health care. The first 2 or 3 months can be a bit of a grind but after awhile you won't want to miss a workout. For me it's about 70 minutes, 4X a week and involves stretching, cardio and weight lifting. It's improved the quality of my life in just about every way I can think of, plus I've got a another set of chums.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 13 - 12:04 PM

Minimise salt intake - don't use it in cooking and don't add it to food on the plate. You DO get used to it.

Minimise sugar intake - don't use sugar in drinks, breakfast cereals or other foods. You DO get used to it.

Reduce your fat intake, esp. animal fats. Use olive oil spread instead of butter, semi-skimmed milk (or preferably skimmed milk) instead of whole milk, reduced fat cheese (or preferably give cheese up altogether).

Limit your intake of red meat. Eat poultry, fish, venison, ostrich instead.

Limit eggs to two per week, including those 'hidden' in other foods e.g cakes and cookies.

Strictly limit your intake of cakes and cookies!

Limit your intake of bread to three slices per day, and NO WHITE BREAD!

Eat plenty of vegetables. NB potatoes, in any form, are NOT vegetables for this purpose.

Limit your intake of potatoes, and preferably stick to boiled. Avoid fries.

AVOID SHITE e.g. McDONALDS, KFC, PIZZAS, etc, etc, etc.

IMPORTANT - Get plenty of cardio-vascular exercise. For example WALK BRISKLY for at least an hour every day. Forget farting about lifting weights, resistance machines etc., it's CV you need and walking is the effective, virtually impact-free way to get it.

See all of the above as an opportunity to improve your life. Positivity is very important.

Good health, and good luck Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 May 13 - 12:07 PM

Joe - you waited four days to see a doctor?????

SIGH!

$G@8&^(@$%#*&%* FOR BRAINS!
Numb suggests stroke suggests RUN to the doctor.

Now back to our regular programming.
Glad you're OK
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Charmion
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:12 PM

May I recommend a cookbook?

"Vegan Before Six" by Mark Bittman (New York Times food columnist, author of "How to Cook Everything") provides recipes that drastically reduce the amount of animal protein and fat in one's diet without doing anything too drastic. The idea is that you're a vegan for breakfast and lunch, and return to your carnivorous ways at suppertime.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:31 PM

Joe, John in Kansas has good advice. Take some guidance from your doctor, but don't stop what you like- just do it in moderation.

I have survived to age 90, and I still like a good, juicy hamburger (so- use lean ground and substitute chopped onion and some spices for the fat content of the regular kind. The mayo, etc. is the real calorie danger. I like a good piece of old cheddar or manchego in the bun.

Perhaps for one meal, eat mostly fresh salad and vegetables, but with just olive oil and a little salt.

Nothing surpasses a good single malt (or tequila anejo, Bombay gin, sour mash- your choice) to relieve stress) but keep a calorie count, cut something else in your daily menu.

Sugar and salt. If you check the recommended salt amount in the Mayo Clinic website, the amount may surprise you- more than I like. Salt your foods lightly if you like, but beware store-bought salted peanuts, most pizzas, MacDonalds fries, and other salt-rich foods.

I use Demerara sugar heavily on my morning oatmeal. I try and stay aware from honey buns, etc., but my will is weak.. Advice to avoid sugar is nonsense- it can't be done, if you like most fruits. Get used to black coffee, or tea without milk and sugar if you are a Brit.

Your doctor will advise you if you have a condition that requires avoidance of certain foods, but don't willy-nilly take advice from mudcat posters, esp. vegetarians and that ilk.

Increase fish and fowl, but avoidance of a good steak and baked potato once a week would lead me to shoot myself.

Check your blood pressure daily and see if you need a prescript. Get all the standard blood tests and find out where you stand.

Only take advice on pills and supplements from your doctor.

Try and exercise a bit daily- your doctor may advise a program. Walk, rather than take your car.

Then continue your life!

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:46 PM

Well THAT shocked me but I am glad you are okay.

I am only gonna say two things re immediate advice.

You are in/near cherry country. 8 cherries = 1 aspirin. 16 to 32 cherries per day and get yerself a blood pressure monitor. Chuck lotsa red or black grapes in ta yer gut too.

Red meat? Only eat it once per week. Have a BIG lean steak if you want but eat it over a day. Go for fish like salmon and take it easy (you be surpried how well this source of protein does NOT leave you craving eats as long as you eat a small bit at a time.

I lost 110 pounds over about two years. I have written many comments on how in Mudcat and even had a thread about it. No "diets" really. Just found something that worked for me... eating small amounts much more often and using recipes that satisfy in quantity when that is what yer after.

Good luck, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 May 13 - 01:50 PM

I am really glad you are okay, aas Sins says S&%# for BRAINS!"

Now, go watch "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead." ou don't have to be that bed, it works for anyone AND watch one of my docs recommended, "Forks Over Knives." I think they are both on netflix and the latter cannot be recommended too highly.

Take care!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 13 - 02:16 PM

"Advice to avoid sugar is nonsense- it can't be done, if you like most fruits"

Not sure if you're referring to my advice there Q, but my advice was about avoiding adding sugar to foods, which is unnecessary - it's just a huge source of calories and, providing you eat fruit and some carbs, you don't need added sugar, and you DO get used to the taste of un-sugared foods and drinks. In fact, after a while, sweetened drinks, and foods like cereals with sugar, taste like poison!

I have porridge (what you call 'oatmeal') every morning, made with skimmed milk and no salt or sweetener of any kind. I love it - you can actually taste the oats - and the taste of sweetened tea/coffee/cereals makes me want to vomit! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 May 13 - 02:32 PM

Hey, Joe, you don't have to lose any 30 lbs--unless you've really been packing them on since the Getaway.    I don't think you're typecast as Santa.

One thing you really need to do--as do we all, probably:   get more sleep.

Among other things, I've read it's important to have no TV--or computer--less than an hour before trying to get to sleep. Otherwise it's hard to do it.

Sleep, as we're told constantly, is the foundation of good health. Supposedly adults need about 8 hours.

Listen to gnu on red meat.    I've just about given it up in favor of salmon and chicken (chicken I cook or microwave and put the spices I want on it, especially lemon juice and Indian curries).      You can really jazz chicken up to be at least as flavorful as red meat.

Exercise:    how about swimming?    Supposed to be the best exercise there is.

Back to food: I'd say that eating baked potatoes, for instance, should be fine. It's what we put on them that is questionable.

As you know, the less prepared and packaged food you eat, the less sugar and salt--which is all to the good. You can always put it on if you really need it.    The only thing I ever put salt on is corn on the cob.

And for salads, if you use vinegar (maybe balsamic vinegar, for the spice), rather than anything with mayonnaise,that's good.

When, as well as what you eat, is also important.   They say the best thing is to eat a big breakfast and taper off from there.    I'm a rotten role model on this--often skip breakfast entirely.    But next best thing is to eat your big meal at midday.   That's what I try to do.   Above all don't eat the big meal at night--you probably don't get enough chance to work it off.   And particularly don't eat a lot of sugary snacks at night.   If I'm hungry at night I eat a yogurt and put some clementines or grapes in it.

Hey Joe, we want to keep you around here forever--somebody has to ride herd on all us cats (but please don't let Mudcat keep you from good health).   Seriously, don't let Mudcat stand in the way of sleep (if at all possible).

My Jan seems to internalize all the problems of the world. This is not a good idea for anybody--as I keep telling her (to amazingly little effect). I think this is another thing some of us have to avoid.    She does all she can do--then berates herself for not doing more.   We have to be realistic--for health's sake if nothing else.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: selby
Date: 31 May 13 - 02:42 PM

For me don't change what you eat or drink BUT apply self moderation I would suggest you walk a couple of miles a couple of days a week take medication that is prescribed but do challenge why. I have heart problems and set out with all sorts of diets regimes etc and drifted back to what i had been before, moderated, low fat spreads, semi skimmed milk, cooking in oil etc. it has worked for me I believe the exercise was a key factor and I feel good, cholesterol levels are low. Having said all that I believe you have to find what works for you, as we are all different.
Best of luck
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 13 - 03:38 PM

"Living Healthy Without Killing Myself"

1) Accept that death will happen--basically, you're doomed.
2) Try living unhealthy and see what happens.
3) Know that if anyone really had the answer to your conundrum s/he would be over 150 years old and making billions daily selling a full-refund health plan payable at the age of 130 years to all those who have proof of birth with date, etc., and are willing to say they followed the plan assiduously.

If I think of other helpful options I will post them on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 May 13 - 03:49 PM

I second Kat's suggestion of watching Forks Over Knives. See it here:

Documentary Film: Forks Over Knives

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 13 - 05:26 PM

All of those foods to avoid - such a hardship! And such a regimin. I don't eat extra sugar, but I eat a lot of other stuff, healthy organic foods from my garden whenever possible.

For those who like to eat variety and include breads, I think moderation is the best answer. I managed to gain weight over a few years through a medication that had that effect (I have since changed that Rx) and a job that was fairly sedentary. I have made changes to get more exercise, and for now I'm cutting down food three or four days a week. The thing I didn't mention in my earlier post is that Mosley has a book out called The Fast Diet that modifies fasting diet so participants in the program fast just two days a week. The idea is easy, I didn't need to read a book to get the idea. It is something I'd already considered on my own, actually, but hadn't put into action.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 13 - 05:45 PM

Date: 31 May 13 - 03:38 PM... hahahahahahaa! I am lookin forward to your next post!

Exercise:    how about swimming?

Yes! Think of all the great exercise you'll get digging the pool!

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Ron Davies
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:07 PM

Gnu--so in Canada you'd be digging the first one ever? It might not be true in California. Or maybe all those movies were just shot on stagelots.   Who knows?

i suppose all we really know is that they were not shot in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: jacqui.c
Date: 31 May 13 - 07:46 PM

Glad you're OK Joe - I would go along with Sins on this one but I guess if you do get similar symptoms you WILL go straight to a doctor!

I can't add to what has been said above - my diet isn't that healthy so I can't give any ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 31 May 13 - 08:20 PM

Joe,

My eye Dr recommended 81 mg aspirin and more omega 3's. I take 1300 MG flax seed capules. That will help with the gunk and it is really really easy.

If you figure out the weight loss and exercise part, send me a PM! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 13 - 11:43 PM

So, I got the test results from the doctor this morning. It wasn't a stroke and there was no brain damage, but he doesn't know yet what it was. So, thus far the only treatment is a daily aspirin.
And yeah, it was really dumb to take a four-mile hike in the Sierra Wednesday instead of going to the doctor, but I made up for it on Thursday with a doctor visit and two major tests. Bet the bill will be $5,000 or more.
Aren't hikes supposed to be good for me? And I had a singing gig today, so I couldn't miss THAT - could I?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 12:38 AM

Right you are. Miss a singing gig?   No way.   Singing is good for you.   Punkt.

That's one thing I think we can all agree on.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 09:35 AM

I just went back to the first post to re-read. I hope they do come up with some actionable information about those symptoms - and in the meantime, do what you can to improve your health.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 10:47 AM

Just a thought. Jacqui had similar symptoms which turned out to be Lyme Disease. No bulle eye rash ever appeared. And you do hike a lot.
M

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 12:46 PM

"So, what can I do to lose weight and lose the gunk in my veins, that's practical and reasonable and not overly obsessive-compulsive?"

Cut out much of the starches and fats you eat. That will cut weight. Give yourself some goals that are realistic--ie., I'll lose three pounds this week, etc. Keep in mind that useless calories--chocolate, candy, etc., are just that: useless.

Have your eyes checked. Has nothing to do specifically with your vision, but some TIAs are triggered by retinal stuff. An ophthamologist should be able to tell if you've had an event. If you can't see one of them, see whatever eye doctor you can.

Use olive oil. If you get the extra-extra-virgin stuff it at least lessens that blah taste when you fry foods. Get rid of as much animal fat as you can. Cut the fat off all meats and fowl.

Starches means breads, pastas, potatoes, etc. Wheat flour is fattening. Forget all that nonsense about starches converting to sugars, etc. Yeah, starches do, but don't eat them in the first place and it won't be a problem. There are other flours available that are equally good and much less fattening.

Someone will be along to inform you that fried foods are not good for you. They're right: eating two pounds of French fries isn't, neither for the fat nor the starch. But a few ain't gonna kill you. Same goes for beer. But remember that one beer equals two slices of bread. Ya gotta choice.

Hold your wine consumption to less than a half gallon a day otherwise you won't be able to read these suggestions.

You will now have three things left you can eat: mint sprigs, lettuce leaves and bugs. Bon appetit.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Joe, take a look at the Mayo Clinic write-ups on "artery deposits."
Lots of advice, including that "aspirin-a-day" to thin blood is not safe for everyone.
Also positive recommendation on diet in their pages. A useful supplement to your doctor's recommendations.

The NIH site is also worth a look.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 13 - 01:58 PM

Good idea, SINS.

I gained 16 pounds betwteen July 4 and 7AM, May 23. As of 7AM today, I have lost 5 pounds on the gnu diet. Of course, such weight loss rate is NOT healthy but usually happens when I start the gnu diet anew. I expect that by day 21 the rate will level out to 1 to 3 pounds per week depending on me arthritis. An average of 1.5# per week is perfect for me.

BTW, the Bud, Butterscotch Ripple ice cream, brown sugar Mini-Wheats, Honey Nut Cheerios, peanut butter on whole wheat toast, green tomatoe chow, pickles, etc, are deeeelicious. The almost WHOLE can of Hereford brand corned beef last evening was a definite mistake but sometimes gnu is a bad boy. I'll have to make up for that with ice cream and cereal for supper... heavy on the bran.

I still haven't gone to the drastic part of the gnu diet which includes meatless veggie stir fries and soups with LOADS of green beans and cabbage but it will come in week three. Cabbage will shed pounds... and friends. Not that you just carelessly and rudely fart whenever you want. This diet can simply result in having no say in the matter so ya gotta go inta yer Spaw mode an say to the person in fronna ya at the grocery store checkout, loudly, "I'll bet yer glad yer in FRONNA me eh!" an then look apologetically at the people behind ya an shrug yer shoulders and say, "I am in a rush an apparently so was me guts. Udderwise, I woulda got outta line. I hope there are no serious casualties back there." As I am Mr. Polite, at this point, I pay cash rather than insert my card upside down an screw it up, then punch in my PIN wrong an screw it up, then...

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 02:50 AM

Joe,

Sorry to hear about this, and hope it ends up not being anything serious.

Regarding living healthily:

The posters urging "moderation" are, to my mind, the ones to listen to. Those posting specific "solutions" that rely on avoiding things completely, or prescribed eating patters, are IMO edging towards "faddism".

The 5/7 approach, where you eat what you like for 5 days and fast for 2, works like any other method of calorie restriction....the science behind Mosely's claims is very weak and independent tests have shown that weight-loss on this regime is pretty much due to calorie restriction when taken on a weekly basis. If it works as an alternative for some people, fine, but there have been some indications that it can be bad for you long term.

Same with advice to minimise salt intake, egg eating etc: yes, if you're eating 3 fried eggs a day, or slathering everything with salt, you should look at moderating intake, but the latest evidence is that regular egg eating has no effect on cholesterol levels and that salt intake has been over-stated as a cause of problems. Personally, if I don't get enough salt, I cramp up badly after or during exercise.

MODERATION is the key...there's no need to cut anything out completely: eat meat if you like it, but not a 12 ounce steak every day! Up the veg intake, yes, and try to cook things using less fat, but there's no need to get evangelical about it (eg I still use nice-tasting butter rather than revolting low-fat vegetable spreads....just less of it. And I won't touch low-fat cheese as it's uniformly vile. I just eat less of the good stuff than I did).

Losing weight is basically just a question of eating a little less and moving more. There are some other "fine tunings", sure, but that's the basic solution. A few years ago I lost 3 stone (42 lb) in 6 months using that approach and never felt as if I was "dieting" at all. Initially I used a weightloss site to log the calories I was eating and the exercise I was doing but after a while became good at estimating each day whether I was in calorie deficit or not without having to log it all. I put 14lb of it back when I was laid up recently for several months due to an operation on my foot, and unable to exercise properly for several more months after the plaster came off, but I've now got a grip again and cut down on the "comfort eating" of crap that had crept in to alleviate my misery at being unable to exercise, so expect that to be gone again in another 8 weeks or so.

On the exercise front, walking is great, yes, but I think it's also a good idea to get the heart rate elevated above what normal walking achieves. Power walking up hills would be good, or running if possible. I can't stand gyms, but I do a form of circuit training outdoors (all weathers) in a group, which helps with motivation when it's raining or snowing!

Losing a couple of pounds a week, max, is a healthy rate of loss...."crash" diets that promise huge losses mainly show early results due to water loss, and can be quite unhealthy long term, as well as leading to "yo-yo" weight gain/loss when the diet "ends" and you go back to eating the same old stuff. Eating just a bit more carefully, with everything in moderation, is a re-education of the palate and the body and doesn't ever "end" in that you adopt a whole new eating pattern, which balances out as you lose weight (ie your base level calorie expenditure will drop as your weight drops and at some point you'll reach a maintenance weight where the calories from your re-educated palate's intake are balanced by the output).

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 09:07 AM

A predictably amusing thread. You know what you need to do. It just is not always easy to do it. You are a highly intelligent person. We sometimes forget, or are not accustomed, to listen to our bodies. There is a lot of good advice in this thread, some of which can work for you. It is up to you to listen to your body and figure out together what you can/are willing to do for your life.

A study done by Harvard in the 60's confirmed that life style and attitude were more important than what you eat. Being "laid back" is a boon; Are you?

It would appear that you have received a warning. But - for heaven's sake don't let "them" put you on meds that need more meds to offset the effects of the first meds, etc.

If this were my situation, ---I am older than you so I have to think back to how I would have felt 10 years ago --- I went on a diet that even my health consultant thought too difficult. But I lost the 30 extra in about 4-5 months and discovered that any deviation from the diet added weight. So 9 years later, I'm trying again to lose that 30. It is easier to stick to a diet if you live alone - or have the total support of partner. I'll bet you do.

Exercise is only useful if you enjoy it. If you do not, it seems to have negative effects on attitude. Attitude affects health. The same is probably true of dieting. Unless you feel good about what you are doing/eating it could also be counter-productive. Attitude again. Only you, in cooperation with your body, can determine what is right for you. You know that!

I want to LIVE until I die. Therefore, I try to do what is necessary to keep my body happy. I am finding this increasingly difficult with an aging body (76 now). I am on no meds but have used, for over 40 years, supplements (not a lot!) to deal with everything from a sore throat to aching joints. And a little apple cider vinegar in water that helps keep the arteries open for business.

I am sure we would all like to have you around for a bunch more years, even if you did not get to be pope!

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 09:30 AM

"I've been kinda numb on the left side of my body all week, with occasional slurred speech and a numb circle around my mouth that feels like I just got out of the dentist's chair."

I think you should see a neurologist, Joe. That sounds like something wrong in the brain, spine or other nerves.

Such things happen to me because I'm a former migraine sufferer. (They are called "migraine equivalents.") A neurologist told me that they happen because some part of the brain is not getting enough oxygen. I don't worry about it, because my symptoms are gone in ten minutes. Yours lasted longer and sound more serious.

Funny neurological symptoms can also happen because the carotid or subcarotid arteries, which are important to the brain, are not doing their job. Perhaps you should get them checked out to be sure they are not blocked.

A few years ago I took a trip to Ireland and decided not to drink coffee, so as to cut down on the restroom stops. I started to get odd visual symptoms on that trip, i.e., little dancing lights in 'the corner of my eye.' Later, I asked my eye doctor about it.

His eyes twinkled, and he asked, "Did you cut back on coffee?" He explained that suddenly cutting my caffeine caused those arteries to flop lazily, and the nervous-system symptoms were the result.
=========
Over the course of my life I have learned that if I have a serious health problem, I get better care from a specialist than a GP.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 09:32 AM

When you get clear of your medical problems you might consider a kayak as a fun way to keep fit, Joe. It will definitely help with the upper body and core aspects of physical conditioning and your hiking should cover the lower body and both are great for cardio fitness. If you're there in the Sierras you must have some beautiful rivers and lakes nearby.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 08:39 PM

"When you get clear of your medical problems you might consider a kayak as a fun way to keep fit, Joe."

Is it legal to be buried in one in CA? Might save ya some coin, Joe.

June 7, 7AM... 6#. Ate 8 hot dogs (one large kaiser bun too) today but I did it right as I balanced it with toasted oats and youghurt. I expect no change in weight by morn.

Yeah... 8 dogs. 340g. There's a reason.

I am regnuing.

RESURGO BABY!

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 08:42 PM

June 7? 7? grrrrrrrr.... 2! June 2!

Maybe I need some real food?

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM

The purpose of this message

Is to introduce you to a great role model.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 09:00 PM

Great video, Dorothy! Thanks for posting that!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 13 - 09:39 PM

My cardiac arrest, when I dropped down dead and missed Christmas 2010, probably saved my life, because when I was well enough they gave me an angiogram, found I'd got furred up cardiac ateries and gave me a quadruple heart bypass. (Thank God and Nye Bevan for a socialist NHS)

Subsequent life changes, drink more liquid (with a reasonable proportion being beer), cut down on Spinach and Strawberries, a bit more exercise.

Look after yourself Joe. Be moderate in taking well intended advice on the Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 12:30 AM

OK. I guess I have to ask permission for this: about once a month, I make myself a pot of chili, and I like to believe it's really healthy. I use five cans of beans (5 different kinds, for color), 3 cans of diced tomatoes, two medium onions, a pound of hamburger, and chili powder and dried chili peppers.
Of course, I have to have a bottle of beer with every bowl.

So, is that healthy?

-Joe, feeling really good tonight, and glad to be alive-

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 12:34 AM

Have some rice with it to get a complex carbohydrate and you're set. Sounds good to me. Except you should use some real peppers (poblano or hatch chiles are good). Cauterize any disease in your body that way.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 01:30 AM

Joe:

Next time you make that chili, try skipping the hamburger and substituting the really lean ground turkey. Read the label on the package and it should have less than 10% of the calories from fat. Not all stores carry it and it's a little pricey but well worth it. This stuff is very dry and does not make very good burgers but it works very well in chili. You may want to add a little olive oil as well.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 01:32 AM

Oh, yeah. The beer is about 150 calories per can. This won't kill you but you do need to limit the number you consume.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 02:15 AM

I'm assuming that you don't eat all the chilli you've made in one sitting! :-)

Otherwise, yes, it's quite healthy, if you don't use much fat to cook off the onions. Not sure about substituting ground turkey though....here in the UK we can get very low fat "minced beef" ("ground beef" to you I guess). Under 5% fat is common. You pay a bit more for it but to my mind it would be vastly superior to turkey meat, which I find bland and tasteless.

One of my own recipes for chilli (I have 3, the other 2 use more fresh ingredients, this is my "quick and dirty" one where I need to minimise the prep time) has a higher proportion of meat to beans than yours does (see below). The quantity I show below contains 1140 calories in total and gives me two large bowls, or 570 calories per serving. The calories come from 45% protein, 35% fat and 20% carbs with around 8g fibre and 3.9 "portions" (UK definition) of fruit and veg per serving.

Adding a single beer to that will take the calories per serving to around 720! :-)


Beans, Pinto, in Water, No Added Sugar Or Salt, Drained,-1 Can/235.6g

Beef, Mince, Steak, Extra Lean,-500g

Onion, large,-1

Tomatoes, Chopped, in Tomato Juice-240g

Tomato Puree, Double Concentrate,-1 Tbsp/15g

Tomato Paste, Sun Dried, Average-1 Heaped Tsp/10g

Oil, Vegetable, Pure,-1 Tbsp/15ml

Sweetcorn, in Water, Naturally Sweet, No Added Sugar Or Salt, Drained,-½ Std Can/136g

Chillies, fresh, home grown, 4-6 depending on size


The calorie and nutrition calculations were all generated automatically from the weight loss web site I mentioned in my previous post....I just had to enter the ingredients (including brands where applicable) and quantities and the vast database on the site worked it all out for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 08:39 AM

Websites where you log and track your food intake and exercise output are immensely helpful, not only for weight loss (how much you eat) but also for mindfulness about what you eat. I use one called MyNetDiary that tracks more than a dozen different nutrients as well as fibre content and calories, and nags me constantly about the sodium level in my diet -- something I never thought about before.

Oh, and I have taken off 25 pounds since New Year's Day.

ch

Subject: RE: BS: Living Healthy Without Killing Myself
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 09:11 AM

Dorothy, incredible video! Definitely inspirational.

You can start small, but START. Keep moving -- otherwise you seize up.

Linn