Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn

Subject: Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard
From: tradsteve
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:07 AM

Does anyone have The chords for "Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard"?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From:
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 01:35 AM

Which tune? There are 74 tunes for it in Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads'.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Den
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:03 AM

Tradsteve do you need the lyrics too. If so I have them. There are about a million verses so I won't post them till I hear back from you. Den

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 06 Jan 00 - 10:13 AM

There are two versions of this in the Digital Tradition, "Mattie Groves" and "Lord Banner", as well as a parody called "Fatty Groves". I'm surprised the DT doesn't already have more versions than this. Isn't this a fairly widespread ballad in the English-speaking world, to the point of deserving the adjective "ubiquitous" ?

T.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: tradsteve
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:03 PM

I have the lyrics, thank you but any one of the tunes is fine. I just need a version. Which do you think is best?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:35 PM

Well, I'd say the version I hear most is close to this one (click)

running the tune through ABCMUS, I come up with these chords, which may or may not make much sense:

  %           Dm                                       C       Dm
  A,|D2 D2|D3D|E-D C2|D2 DD|D2 D2|F2 G2|A4-|Az |
  W: A ho- li- day, a ho- li- day, And the first one of the year,
  
  %   C                               Dm             C               Dm
  A2 |c2 c2|A3A|G2 ED|C3C|D2 F2|E2 C2|D4-|D2 z||
  W: Lord Dar- nell's wife came in- to the church The gos- pel for to hear.

This is the chords-only output from ABCMUS:

| Dm / | / | Am / | Dm / | / / | / C | Dm | / |

/ | Am / | Dm | C Am | / | Dm / | Am / | Dm | ||

Tradsteve is the proud owner of Volume 2 of the Dover edition of the Child Ballads, so he has at least 14 versions of the lyrics. There are several versions of the lyrics in various threads.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: tradsteve
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:29 AM

Thanks Joe as you can see, I'm enjoying my purchase.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:54 AM

T-in-Oklahoma--

Never be surprised by what is or isn't in DigiTrad; it depends, not on popularity, but upon whether someone has sent me a copy, or whether it's one that my erratic fancy has settled on at the moment.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: arkie
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:26 AM

Tradsteve, use the tune to Shady Grove. It's been done before.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Den
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 11:16 AM

A great version of the song can be heard on the Planxty album, "The Woman I Loved So Well" with additional lyrics written by Christy Moore. I think it is the most beautiful version I have heard. Den

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 06:45 PM

Hmmmm. We could have a very interesting thread on the "erratic fancy" of Dick Greenhaus.... (grin)

Well...maybe not, then - but in a rare moment of appreciation and civility, I have to admit that all of us have benefitted greatly from that "erratic fancy."
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 08:49 PM

Re. Planxty's recording:

For the record, when Christy Moore said  "I collected it (i.e., the text) in a book",  he meant that he had found it in a book, not that he'd written any of it himself.  He got the tune from a recording by Nic Jones, the seminal English singer and guitar player (Ballads & Songs, Trailer LER 2014, 1970), who had this to say about it:

"Musgrave's tune is more a creation of my own than anything else, although the bulk of it is based on an American variant of the same ballad, entitled Little Matty Groves."

Planxty's version is indeed a fine one, but it's only a shadow of Jones'.  Sadly, Nic had to retire due to serious injuries sustained in a car crash, and the record is no longer available; "Celtic Records" bought the Leader/Trailer back-catalogue, and refuses to re-issue the material.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Den
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 08:15 AM

For the record: from the Christy Moore song book and I quote, " Little Musgrove, A version in which I used old lyrics, added some lyrics of my own and put them together with a tune from the singing of Nick Jones." Now if that doesn't suggest that he added lyrics to the song himself then I believe I have lost my grasp on the english language but I am no expert in that department either. Den

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Den
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 08:17 AM

That should have read Little Musgrave in the title. Den

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From:
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 02:39 PM

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Jon W.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 04:30 PM

I love the Planxty version (actually it's the very song that turned me on to folk music other than blues), wish I could hear the Nick Jones. As for Christy adding his own words, well that's the folk process isn't it? I've done the same. I sing it to myself using more or less the Planxty tune but they do it in E (I think) and I do it in G because that's where on the guitar neck I could pick an accompaniment. I get by with G, C, and D plus a few inter-chord positions. There are some verses which have a variation on the melody which is a little higher. On those I have to play a G barre chord instead of the regular one, and that's probably why I've never made it all the way through the whole song. I could probably transcribe my guitar part to tablature if anyone is interested.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 04:40 PM

Den:

Fair enough; I haven't seen the Songbook, and was quoting from Christie Moore's notes on the Planxty album, so I guess neither of us has misunderstood -we've just seen different statements from the same person. I'd be interested to know which parts he did write.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From:
Date: 31 Mar 02 - 08:49 PM

I am a Musgrove (des of the Musgrave) would love to have a copy of the notes so I can play on the flute & treble recorder, have got the words. thankyou my e-mail is [e-mail] Regards mouse

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 12:22 AM

Mouse - if you are looking for chords I will gladly oblige tomorrow (I'm tired right now). I love Christy's singing of it, and also Fairport's "Matty Groves"; AAMOF my band Greenhouse has performed a hybrid version that switches between the two (really, it works!)

If, on the other hand, you are loking for sheet music, I am not qualified to help, but others on this forum are!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: LITTLE MUSGRAVE
From: GUEST,Hilary, not logged in
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 02:43 AM

Like Malcolm, I would love to know which are the original words and which are relatively new, especially as I'm feeling slightly guilty about editing it down to 6X12 lines.

These are chords I use:

(Just the first set of 3x4 lines, there are 29x4 lines in the Christy Moore songbook)

LITTLE MUSGRAVE

It fell (D) upon a holy (Em) day,
As many (D) in the year,
Musgrave (D) to the church (Em) did go,
To see (D) fine ladies (A) there (D)

And some (D) were dressed in velvet (Em) red
And some (D) in velvet pale
Then (D) came Lord Barnard's (EM) wife
The fairest (D) 'mongst (A) them all (D)

She cast (D) an eye on the Little Musgrave
As bright (D) as summer's sun
Said (D) Musgrave unto himself
This lady's (D) heart (G) I've won (D)

If nobody posts the full lyrics in the day or so I can do it (out all day today).

There are full lyrics, the dots and chords in the Christy Moore Songbook.
Although one of the chords given is Gm i sus4 -which I haven't been able to figure out (nor anyone here when I asked).

In the book, the tune is credited 'from the singing of Nick Jones' i.e. Nick with a K - assumed this was a typo.... but unfortunately never found a copy of the Nic Jones recording.

Mouse, I will email my email - I could snail mail the dots to you if that is of use.

Good song innit

Hilary

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: pavane
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 05:04 AM

Can verify that the Nic Jones version is one of the best (IMHO). But it's on one of the Bulmerised recordings. I don't know where he got his tune, though.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 05:12 AM

If you read the rest of the thread, Pavane, you'd find out.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 11:43 AM

The 2 versions I had of this were by Doc Watson, in which version it was the man's idea to seduce the wife, and by Shep Ginandes, in whose version (closer to what's in the Trad as Mattie Groves, the name used in both versions) it was very definitely the wife's idea to seduce Mattie. Which is closer to the "real" story?

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: pavane
Date: 01 Apr 02 - 12:05 PM

Yes, I somehow missed Malcolm's posting! As to the real story, there are broadsheets going back to 17th C and probably earlier,

'The lamentable ditty of the little Mousgrove, and the Lady Barnet' printed between 1658 and 1664 is similar in places to the Nic Jones version, and Lady Barnet clearly issues the invitation.

You can find it online in the Bodleian Ballad Library here, I hope

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: GUEST, Mike in Wolverhampton, UK
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 05:19 AM

Message to anyone who knows.

This isn't about music. Its more to do with the history of the song. Does anyone know whether the Lord and Lady Barnard referred to in the song are the same Barnards from Raby Castle in Staindrop in Northumberland, UK?

Best wishes

Mike

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: allanwill
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 10:54 AM

Hilary

For Gm sus4 try 355533.

Allan

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 11:27 AM

To return briefly to Christy Moore's claim to have written part of the text recorded by Planxty. At the time of the original question, I sat down to check through the whole thing, but quickly became bored. Since the thread has been revived, I'd just comment that the text of the Planxty arrangement follows very closely that used by Nic Jones, with the odd word changed or moved around here and there. The only parts which do not appear in the text recorded by Jones can be found in Child. It would appear that Christy's input here went no further than adding some material from elsewhere and changing a few small details. Hardly enough for a co-writing credit.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jun 02 - 10:58 PM

Arranging for my band, I came up with a hybrid of Fairport's and Christy's versions, switching back and forth between major and minor. Try it, it works, and breaks up a long ballad.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: michaelr
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:54 PM

Whew, it would seem that Christy Moore is more than a bit self-contradictory about where his version came from:

On the DVD of the recent Planxty reunion concert, he says he found the lyrics on a sheet of paper on the floor of a Dublin auction house, took them to Andy Irvine who had a melody by Nic Jones, and put the two together...

I haven't heard Nic's recording, but it appears likely that Christy just swiped it wholesale.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:39 PM

Little Musgrave is on my family's Child Ballad album recently reissued as a CD by Smithsonian Folkways.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Little Musgrave and Lady Barn
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:49 AM

For them what's innerested, Nic Jones' Leader/Trailer albums are now available (from CAMSCO, if nowhere else.)