BS: No -no foods for diabetics

Subject: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 02:55 PM

This will probably seem like a dumb posting. But I'd value you guys making an input.

Las year (january) I had an pacemaker/defrillator fitted to my heart.

Ferreting round inside of me the medical guys found I had type2 diabetes.. So they put me on some drugs and counselled me to take lots of exercise. I said what should I be eating - they said - just carry on but eat a bit less.

That didn't work. I didn't feel well enough to exercise, and I didn't eat less.

So what I wonder - could some of you guys who have experienceof this sort of thing help me out.

What foods should I not have in the house. I am beginning to think - anything with cafeiine, pre confectionery (ice cream and sweets)alcohol, cakes, puddings....
Any thing else I shouldn't be even thinking of eating?

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 03:08 PM

My brother likes beer, so he rarely eats bread. He rides his bike A LOT. My sister-in-law gave up fruit juice in favour of actual fruit, and doesn’t eat much of that either.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 03:10 PM

Bananas. Higher GI than pure sugar.

Cornflakes. Ditto. I don't have diabetes but they give me reactive hypoglycemia.

Look up low-GI diets.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 03:16 PM

Hi Big Al,

My Mum was diagnosed with type2 diabetes when she was about 40 and my sister was too. I have managed to stave it off so far.

I am a huge fan of Dr Michael Mosley. I watch as many of his TV shows as I can find and I'm impressed about the science behind his recommendations. The the blood sugar diet is specifically designed for diabetics. It is clearly explained, and in my opinion, fairly easy to follow.

(Usual diclaimer: I have no connection to the Mosley programmes. I just think he gives some great, factual, scientific information.)

The website says, "A scientifically based plan for weight loss and improved blood sugar" and the three basic principles are:

"Low carb Med style

"There is overwhelming scientific evidence that a low carb Mediterranean-style diet — one rich in vegetables, olive oil, nuts and the occasional glass of wine or bite of dark chocolate — is better for weight loss, blood sugar control and improving cholesterol than going on a low fat diet. That’s why it’s central to the Blood Sugar Diet.

"Reduced calories

"To improve your blood sugar levels it is important that you reduce the fat that is clogging up your liver and your pancreas and stopping them working properly. The quickest way to do this is to go on an 800 a day low calorie diet, the sort described in the book. The rapid drop in calories will drain the fat from your vital organs. Alternatively the BSD 5:2 intermittent fasting approach involves cutting to 800 calories 2 days a week giving more flexibility.

"Move more

"When your muscles become infiltrated with fat they stop being able to absorb and use the sugar that is being carried round in your blood. So rather than being burnt as fuel these excess calories are deposited as fat. The fastest way to reverse this problem is to get active. This will also help build muscle and keep your weight down."


It's important to note that the 800 calorie diet is basically until a person achieves a good healthy weight, specifically with a reduction in body fat. It's not 800 calories for the rest of your life.

Hubby and I have used the 5:2 diet with excellent results, losing weight and keeping it off by fasting on two non-consecutive days a week. After we lost the weight we just do that as and when we need it if the weight starts to creep up again.

For me, the Mediterranean diet is just the best. Healthy, but also tasty and interesting.

My personal basic principle is to steer clear of white carbs as much as possible e.g. white bread, white rice, pasta, spuds, and introduce a lot of healthy fibre using beans and legumes in cooking, and multigrain bread and pasta or flour made from chick peas etc.

Dr Mosley has actually reversed his diabetes condition through these regimes.

Good luck with it all.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 03:21 PM

And of course, reducing sugar intake. When my Mum was diagnosed back in the '60's, my sister and I also gradually cut back on sugar. Less sugar in tea, working towards no sugar in tea. Less sugar in cakes and baked goods to the extent that someone at work once said she wouldn't eat my yummy orange and almond cake, made with almond meal and extra eggs instead of flour, because it wasn't sweet enough for her. Oh well. Everyone else loved it. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 04:33 PM

Keto, baby. But research first.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 04:57 PM

Thank you. All of you - particularly Helen for what seems to be a pro-active approach.

I am getting all sorts of horrid reactions that must be due to the diabetes and the drugs I am swallowing.

Many thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 07:23 PM

I think you need advice from a dietician, Al, not from Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 08:34 PM

The thing is Steve that dieticians are not very helpful. They don't seem to be of one mind on this subject.
That's why Helen's answer was so valuable. It reflected my own confusion and had the warmth of human experience.

Most dieticians don't look as though they have eaten anything more substantial than a stick of celery since early childhood.

Since getting Helen's messages, I have bought Mosley's talking book and am halfway through it. I have sent for his book on Amazon.

Its given me a lot of advice, which I pray god will be more helpful than the dieticians who have been put in charge of me and have not helped very much. It was an expensive operation I have had, and really it required aftercare which never arrived. I reallise the NHS is is is in turmoil with the Covid crisis. But I'm having my own little crisis. And sincerely I do appreciate you guys giving me some advice. Including you, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:02 PM

After this post I'm butting out of this thread, Al. We have had threads here that just gave rank bad advice on diet (and other health issues, including advocacy of cannabis) from unqualified people, quite often from people (several of whom can be guaranteed to pop up on these threads) who clearly have unresolved health issues themselves. That makes it very difficult to know what's good and what's bad by way of advice. In the bad old days when Chiff and Fipple had a below-the-line squabble department, like this one, it was strictly forbidden to give out any advice at all on medical issues. I had many a difference with the people who ran that website, but on that point I wholeheartedly agree. Get professional advice is what I'm thinking you should be doing.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:42 PM

I concur with Helen about Dr. Michael Mosely. He really investigates what is going on in your body when you eat food, and he was the one who started trying various fasting diets. The "alternate day fasting" that involves regular eating then a day of only about 500 calories (two or three of these in a week) helps level out some of the bad stuff. But be sure to get plenty of fiber on that.

Eat, Fast, and Live Longer. You can track down a lot of his other work from this starting point.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 12:23 AM

Well its very difficult Steve.
There are people who have been appointed to help, but they haven't. And when you are getting in the shit - you simply have to be pro-active and try to sort it out yourself.

There are no prizes in this game for sinking deeper in the shit until your condition has deteriorated beyond retrieval point.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 02:52 AM

You can be referred to a professional dietician on the NHS. It's free. They have full access to your medical records. They know you and your circumstances intimately. Whether you like or do what they tell you is a different kettle of fish. I have no doubt at all that Mosely is very good and he is a medical professional but he doesn't know you and no single diet is suitable for all circumstances. Follow his advice by all means but make sure you see your own doctor or dietician regularly. I have lost 4 stone so far with WW but I also saw a dietician in the early days and always check with my doctor if I want to make any drastic changes in my lifestyle.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:10 AM

I was diagnosed with T2 Diabetes in 2007, following several bouts of pancreatitis and my first operation. I joined Diabetes UK (formerly the British Diabetic Association), and I use their resources when I feel the need for advice.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/enjoy-food/eating-with-diabetes

They also have a bi-monthly magazine for subscribers, which contains articles on such things as new developments in preventions, treatments, diet, advice, recipes, etc.

Most of the stuff Helen has already suggested is supported by Diabetes UK, and one thing that shouldn’t be forgotten is the need for regular exercise - I’m not talking about sweating your cojones off with the Lycra-Queens and Gorillas at the gym, but walking is the perfect exercise for diabetics. I walk a minimum of three miles a day, more if possible, and it helps with controlling both blood-sugar and cholesterol.

A few questions…

1) Have you been issued with a Blood-Glucose Meter by your doctor’s surgery, and are you testing daily?

2) if yes, when are you testing, and what are your levels?

3) Are you on diabetes medication, and what is it?

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:11 AM

And I second Dave’s post of 02:52 AM.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:37 AM

I second what Dave the Gnome said: "make sure you see your own doctor or dietician regularly" especially if it seems that your medication might need to be reviewed. Doc Mosley recommends this too.

And I second what Backwoodsman said: "walking is the perfect exercise for diabetics"

The third recommendation on the Blood Sugar Diet page was to move more and I have also seen another Mosley programme in which walking was compared with other exercises and itsurprisingly came up as one of the best choices.

My sister walks regularly and my Hubby and I do too, although we've fallen off the wagon slightly due to the crazy weather we've had here in the last couple of months. We walk briskly for half an hour and try to do it a few times a week.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:54 AM

The gym isn't all lycia and muscles. I am a member of our local pool/gym/leisure centre. Again, refered by the doctor and free for 12 weeks. A lot there are as old or older and more infirm than me. The staff are professionals there too and will not expect you to do bench presses or sit ups. There are exercise cycles and treadmills there which help lots of people who are not comfortable walking or cycling in public or, more likely in N Yorks, bad weather!

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:59 AM

Oh, was going to say that you are right in one respect, Al. Certain foods are better than others. I have learned over the last 2 years that not all calories are equal! I will not advise you what to eat though. I don't know you or your circumstances and I am not a health professional. The only advice that I stick to is seek proper medical help.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 05:42 AM

”The gym isn't all lycia and muscles”

Ha! It was meant to be light-hearted comment, Dave! Note to self…don’t forget the smiley when you’re being whimsical! :-)

I also used to go to the gym three or four mornings a week during the first few years of my retirement, but I found that, as a keen sportsman well into middle age, treadmills/cross-trainers/ergo machines/static bikes etc. bored me shitless, and that I far preferred a four or five mile walk out in the fields and lanes near where I live - not to mention that it’s free and saved me the thirty quid a month I was paying for the gym! And, as Helen says, walking is a strongly-recommended form of exercise for diabetics of, shall we say, ‘mature years’! ;-)

But all exercise is good - whatever floats yer boat.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 05:55 AM

I'm with Steve on this. However, you might find Fixing Dad by Jen Whittington interesting. In conjunction with dietician, doctor and diabetes nurse, obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 06:21 AM

I’m in complete agreement that one should always involve one’s health-professionals in choices and decisions with regard to diabetes T2. However, I had the same problem as Big Al with diet-choices when I was first diagnosed with T2 - I got a two-page leaflet from my doctor’s practice and, when I was admitted to hospital for my second operation some six months later, I asked to see a member of their dietary team, and I was given a similar document. Not very helpful at all.

That’s why I joined Diabetes UK. They are a highly professional organisation, a great source of information, and they are the UK’s major diabetes charity.

I would strongly recommend Big Al to take a look at DUK as a source of support alongside his health-professionals.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 06:45 AM

Being windsical is not a matter for the Nazi Gespacho police. :'/
Carbs can torture with type 2. Bread, rice, potato, cake and delicious things. I draw the line now and then but insulin can handle it for the most part..
Knowing what foods metabolize into sugars is a good thing to know.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 10:32 AM

No - I realised that Jphn - I was just pointing it out for Al's benefit. Particularly if he can get 13 weeks for free like I did :-)

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 10:33 AM

And I'm not even sure what the Nazi Gespacho police is or whether I belong to it!

For too obscure for me, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 11:02 AM

Thanks for all this. I really do appreciate you all taking the trouble to help me with your own experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 11:12 AM

”And I'm not even sure what the Nazi Gespacho police is or whether I belong to it!

Don was referring to this… Gazpacho Police :-)

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 11:22 AM

Ahhhhhh. I get it now. Sort of like a joke but without the funny bit at the end :-D

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 12:13 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 01:58 PM

When I first saw the thread title I interpreted it as: "No! No foods for diabetics!"and I was thinking. That's a bit extreme, innit? I've known diabetics over the years, one of 'em right now. I bring even a small cake to the coffee table, his wife checks it for sugar content and tells him he can't have it.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 02:36 PM

I'm sure I've posted the recipe for flourless orange and almond cake in one of the recipe threads but I can't find it. It uses almond meal or processed almonds for a crunchier texture, a whole orange boiled and then processed, a couple of extra eggs to hold it all together, and I always put about a third of the recipe-recommended sugar in it or I could use a sugar substitute. It needs a bit of sweetness to offset the tangy orange flavour. It can be served with orange syrup but maybe orange juice with a bit of gelatine in it would work.

I can post the recipe in this thread if you are interested. There are other fruits which can be used instead of oranges, too. I've done it with pureed apple, or peaches etc. It is higher in fibre than a flour-based cake, nuts are nutritious, it is delicious, and most of all it's quick to prepare in a food processor but it does cook slowly (approx one hour) because of the extra eggs.

It's my go-to recipe for morning teas or any occasion requiring a decadent-looking and tasting cake which is healthy. Well, healthier than a flour-based cake with lots of sugar, no fibre and sweetened dried fruit or other ingredients on the no-no list.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 11:23 AM

Just at the minute Helen. I'm trying to work out the foods I should not eat. When I get round to sorting out what I am going to do, I'm sure I'll be on to you for recipes.

Thank you all once again for your desire to help me out.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 01:18 PM

That's ok, Al. I was actually referring to robomatic's cake dilemma. :-)

A trap to avoid is foods labelled low fat. Because fat gives flavour the food producers often add extra sugar in low fat products like yoghurt so it always pays to check the ingredients before deciding which product is better. Some fats are healthier than others, like olive oil but usually it is used in moderation anyway in the Mediterranean style or other healthy eating styles which use higher proportions of fruit, veg, good proteins, legumes etc.

From memory, the emphasis in the Blood Sugar Diet is more on a balanced Mediterranean style and less on reducing fat in the diet. There are opposing schools of thought on reducing fat but I see a lot of scientific evidence displayed in Mosley's discussion of the topic in many of his programmes, not just in relation to the Blood Sugar Diet.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 09:02 PM

Been on metformin for years. Metformin, watching the diet, and some exercise keep the old A1C down to approved levels. I'm supposed to finger-stick before breakfast and dinner, but I've been forgetting for a couple of years now. As for foods, if it tastes good don't eat it.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 09:14 PM

"As for foods, if it tastes good don't eat it."

Unless it's my super-yummy orange and almond cake.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 03:41 PM

My wife was a State Registered Dietitian and practiced for a few decades, mostly private or rather arms-length with the NHS. I can see why you might not get much out of an NHS dietitian. Increasingly they have been pushed into a dependent role and no longer have rhe skills to manage special dietary needs. The standard text used in the UK, Bryony Thomas’s, used to cover the dietary management of things like diabetes, PKU, G6PD, anorexia, coeliac disease and gout, but all that stuff has been dropped in the current edition. It’s designed to produce managers of nursing homes with one-size-fits-all catering. Dietitians in the UK are now specialists by job title but not by knowledge.

Diabetes UK is a much better bet.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 05:51 PM

That's a sad state of affairs, Jack, and I wouldn't be surprised if the same situation is here in Australia.

Maybe 10 or 20 years ago I used to see a GP who recommended that I attend a seminar on healthy eating but I told her that I had only recently attended a similar one at work. I worked in a state government department - not in a health-related area - and they sometimes ran health-related seminars etc which was good. So my GP organised an appointment with a dietician at the hospital. It was a very useful and informative with a knowledgeable dietician. I'd be surprised if it was so easy now to get an appointment like that, even without the current COVID strain on the health system.

I recently saw a documentary on Oz TV with Michael Mosley and an Indigenous/Aboriginal man called Ray Kelly, a physiotherapist. The aim of the project was to provide information and focused assistance for an Indigenous community where diabetes is prevalent.

Australia's Health

Without making specific mention of the Blood Sugar Diet (BSD), and without giving out any specific recommendations on diet but instead referring viewers to their own health professionals, I think that it is likely that the BSD would have been the basis for the recommendations to the participants in the project.

The outcomes were impressive, even over a relatively short period of time.

One of the issues which was identified during the show was that the Australian diabetics association was asked to review a piece of information on their website which implied that having been diagnosed with diabetes meant that the condition was irreversible. According to the TV show and having reviewed the scientific studies, the association has since reviewed its information and modified that statement.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 06:07 PM

I forgot to say that the reason for my appointment with the dietician was that my regular blood test revealed that I was pre-diabetic. Thankfully that condition has returned to normal.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 03:53 AM

A friend of mine has reversed his type 2. It was quite drastic at the time as he had a gastric band fitted but he lost about half his body weight and he no longer needs the drugs!

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:04 AM

That's great news, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 06:09 AM

I have routine blood tests because I take medication for high blood pressure. A couple of years ago, the nurse at the doctor's surgery decided that it was time to give me dietary advice as I was pre-diabetic. Last year, I was diagnosed as having type 2 diabetes and I was put on to a low dose of Metformin. I had already started losing weight but, by the time of my next blood test, I had lost over 4 stone. I was taken off the Metformin so type 2 diabetes is clearly reversible with diet.

So, to answer Big Al's question, what did I cut out? Generally, I just ate less of everything but, in particular, no unnecessaries such as biscuits, jam and crisps. I also limited the number of pastries and cakes, reserving them for special treats. I have been educating myself, over the years, to take less sugar in everything.

What I do eat is lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. What I don't eat is 'light', 'low fat' or 'no added sugar' products with artificial sweeteners - I don't do pretend.

Now that I am trying to maintain my current weight, I have reintroduced biscuits and jam but try not to go overboard. The next blood test will tell if I have been successful.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 06:35 AM

”So, to answer Big Al's question, what did I cut out? Generally, I just ate less of everything but, in particular, no unnecessaries such as biscuits, jam and crisps. I also limited the number of pastries and cakes, reserving them for special treats. I have been educating myself, over the years, to take less sugar in everything.”

And I echo what Doug says. I was diagnosed T2 in 2007 - I wasn’t overweight (well, maybe half a stone) but I’d had pancreatitis with complications, and major abdominal surgery the previous year, so my pancreas was pretty well buggered - and Doug’s advice is a summary of the advice my diabetic nurse and my hepatobiliary consultant gave me. That’s the regime I’ve followed since that time, and I’ve managed to keep my weight steady and my blood sugar under control. I’m on Metformin and Gliclazide - my doctor advised that, due to the pancreas damage I suffered in 2006 and 2007, there’s no chance of reversing my diabetes by diet alone, and that I will very likely end up needing insulin, but that hasn’t happened yet so I must be doing something right.

By sticking to a balanced diet with reduced intake, avoiding carb- and fat-heavy food and drink, and removing added sugar from my diet (no sugar in tea or coffee, on breakfast cereals, in porridge, in fact in anything) I seem to have kept a good grip on my condition, and my cholesterol count has been 2 or less for the past fifteen years.

I strongly recommend Diabetes UK as a source of information regarding living with Diabetes Mellitus, I’ve learned a lot from them over the years.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: cujimmy
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 02:40 PM

Hi folks, lots of good advice here so thanks for sharing. Ive had T2 since about 2009, Ive had spells when Ive been a bit careless resulting in me developing a rash on my arms and back which scared me a bit. So over the last 18 months or so Ive really made an effort and so now my blood sugar level has been very good for a while. One thing Im sure has helped is that I dont use cows milk much now, I put it in my tea but use Oat Milk, Soya Milk, Almond milk etc on cereals etc. I cut down on red meat and now have oily fish and chicken regularly, and plenty of vegetables. I walk everywhere ie if I need something from the shop, I go to a shop a mile or so away so I do a 2 mile walk rather than a few yards to nearby shops. So I reduced my weight from 12st 3lbs to 10st 12lbs. At Asda and Morrisons there are a variety of sugar free biscuits called "Zero" ie Digestives, Chocolate etc and they are very good quality. Cereals such as oats, shredded wheat and Weetabix are sugar free, but I avoid Corn Flakes, rice crispies and many others such as Bran Flakes even have got sugar in them. You really need to read the labels to see how much but you would be surprised. Even items such as Tomato Soup has got lots of sugar ie too much for diabetics.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:16 PM

Just to say that Weetabix aren't sugar-free, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:36 PM

Not a man of your word, are you Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:45 PM

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:02 PM

"After this post I'm butting out of this thread, Al"

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 07:13 PM

Helen, I think it's always appropriate to correct an unintended factual error. I'm sure that cujimmy didn't mean to mislead, and I'm sure he won't mind my putting in that small correction, meant in the kindest possible way. Thing is, I trawl the supermarket shelves for cereals that have a bit less sugar than the worst offenders, so it just happened to be something I knew about. Incidentally, a few months ago you said goodbye to Mudcat fairly loudly and publicly, yet here you still are. Any observations...?

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:45 PM

Healthy cereal

Best cereal overall: Weetabix

[Note from other sites: Serving size is about 35g not 100g so the sugar content is approx 1.65g in a serving - Helen]

Per 100g -
Cals: 362
Fat: 2g
Saturated fat: 0.6g
Sugar: 4.4g
Salt: 0.28g
Weight: 432g (2 Weetabix is 37.5g)
Price: £2.17 at Waitrose

Verdict: Is Weetabix good for you? The answer is a resounding yes! Weetabix is a family favourite and is low in sugar and really low in fat too. Plus the great thing about them is that your portion size is chosen for you, so you can't heap a bowl up of cereal and eat more than the recommended amount. The perfect healthy cereal choice.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:46 PM

For T2 diabetics, I recommend porridge for breakfast. Porridge oats (nothing whatsoever added) and skimmed milk (no sugar, no golden syrup, no maple syrup, no sweeteners of any kind and, in the interest of avoiding hypertension, no salt) - low G.I., calcium-rich, good for heart-health. For a treat, and to add a bit of variation, I sometimes chuck a few blueberries and/or raspberries in, but I never use sugar or any kind of sugary sweetener - as with tea and coffee sans sweetener, you get used to the taste of the unsweetened product, and the sweetened version eventually tastes like poison. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 12:56 AM

I totally agree, Backwoodsman. Porridge is the bomb! I add a bit of fruity flavour, but nothing really sweet. Prunes are nice, or some low-sugar cranberries. I also add a bit of extra fibre, e.g. psyllium.

A few years ago I was on a day trip for work, being driven by a manager to Sydney and back. He didn't ask us whether we wanted to stop at Macca's (that's McDonald's for you non-Aussies) - he just took us on a detour. It was a long day, it was late afternoon, I didn't want coffee, but I looked at the menu and decided that iced coffee might be ok.

Little did I know that it wasn't just coffee and milk. There must have been at least 4 teaspoons of sugar in it. I took one sip and threw it out. Poison is absolutely right! My mistake was that I make iced coffee at home with a nice big teaspoon of tasty Moccona (instant but with a lovely big coffee flavour) and a glass of low fat milk. Shake it up with a bit of ice. Yum! No sugar. I wrongly assumed that if I wanted sugar in my iced coffee at Macca's I'd put it in myself. Nope. It was probably made with coffee syrup.

It's probably obvious from my story that I don't frequent Macca's and in fact I can tell you that I can literally count on one hand the number of times I have been there, and not once by my own choice.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 02:00 AM

Maccy-Dee’s here in my bit of the Backwoods (Lincolnshire, UK), Helen! :-)

I gave up taking sugar in drinks on 2nd June, 1980. It was my first day in a new job, and my new boss asked one of my new staff to bring us a tea whilst he was doing my induction process. He said ‘no sugar’ and, without thinking, I said “Same for me please”. So I went from two spoons to zero in one go, never took sugar again - 42 years this June!

I confess to having the occasional Maccy-Dee’s, it’s my secret guilty sin - very infrequently I allow myself a Chicken Legend, and I dump the top half of the bun and just eat the bottom half and the ‘chicken’ bit. Then I’m eaten alive by feelings of guilt and shame until I do my early morning blood-sugar test and find, almost invariably, that my levels are barely affected, if at all!

I know how to live! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 02:47 AM

If I have a pub-meal burger I usually share it with Hubby so I only eat half, but my guilty not-so-secret sin is that I eat a few of the chips as a treat. It's not even once a week so I reckon it's ok. Maybe?? I lost a bit of weight during our first COVID lockdown in 2020 when I got out of the habit of eating chips etc and we were cooking good, healthy meals at home instead of eating out. The good news is I've kept the weight off, so something is working.

My theory is that you could live a long, boring, dreary life with no treats at all or you could give yourself a bit of a lift, in moderation. The joy of the 5:2 Fast diet is that a low calorie day can compensate for falling off the wagon a bit now and then. All in moderation, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 03:06 AM

No need for milk in your porridge BWM. I have made it with water for years

I can virtue signal with best of 'em :-D

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 03:13 AM

You’re so right about treats and compensating for over-consumption. When I was diagnosed with T2, the advice I was given was…

1) Don’t try to live a 100% sugar-free life - it’s impossible to completely avoid sugar.
2) Eat all of the main food groups, but maintain a balance - the ‘Eatwell Plate’ shows the recommended proportions… The Eatwell Plate
3) A little of what you fancy does you good - occasional ‘treats’, such as a small slice of cake, or a biscuit, are absolutely fine in moderation. I became TMWCEOOB (The Man Who Can Eat Only One Biscuit)!
4) If you overdo it one day, pull back a bit the next day - it’s all about long-term balance.

I test each morning before eating or drinking, if I’m running a bit high I take it easy with my carb consumption that day. It’s worked for me for the past 15 years.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 03:17 AM

”No need for milk in your porridge BWM. I have made it with water for years”

But, but, but…I like it made with milk, Dave! And, of course, milk (I only take fully-skimmed) is a good source of calcium - important for elderly diabetics for the avoidance of osteoporosis and dental problems. It’s a reason I have low-fat yogurt every day too.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 03:31 AM

I agree about calcium intake, although it can also be found in fish with edible bones, like canned salmon etc. I like milk and milk products. I'm not going to give them up. I just have to balance it out with other foods. The amount of milk I have in porridge is minimal.

I discovered a neat little machine which solves my craving for ice cream and increases my intake of fruit.

(Yeah, yeah, I know. Some fruits are full of sugars. Choose the low sugar fruits.)

But you freeze chopped up fruit and put it through this mincer-thingy called a frozen treat maker and it comes out like a really fruity ice cream. Deceptively creamy. I also freeze low-fat, no added sugar yoghurt and add that in to the mix if I want a creamier frozen treat.

It's one of the best kitchen gadgets I've ever had. When I want some sort of ice cream-type treat I break out the frozen fruit and wham! There it is within minutes.

Thanks for the virtue-signalling, DtG. That's just what we need. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 04:55 AM

I sometimes stir a couple of spoons of zero fat yogurt into my porrige along with cinammon and berries. How healthy is that?!?

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 05:19 AM

Berries can be beneficial. Antioxidants.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Stanron
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 06:13 AM

Once you've got used to not having sugar in food you'll find that all sorts of stuff are gently sweet.

Carrots, finely grated, are amazing. Mix finely grated carrot and finely grated cheese in equal amounts and tell me you are not surprised.

My favourite porridge dish starts with getting the right oats. None of that ground down powdery stuff that sets like concrete. Get the stuff where you can see the individual crushed flakes of the grain.

One cup or less of oats, ditto of water, a small tin of mackerel in oil and a portion of petit pois go in the microwave for three or four minutes. If it doesn't taste sweet then you have been eating too much sugar generally.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 08:01 AM

I quite like oats with a touch of horseradish sauce and smoked salmon. Glad it's not just me :-D

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: cujimmy
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 10:43 AM

I like to put oat milk or soya into a microwave cup, then jumbo oats, then sprinkle cinnamon and then grate an apple into it. Leave overnight, then microwave in in the morning for breakfast. Add some Stevia sweetener and its my favourite breakfast.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 11:12 AM

I don't bother microwaving them if I leave them overnight. Quite often used to put a sealable bowl of said oats into fridge overnight and take it to work for my breakfast. Stopped doing it whan I stopped work but I may well give it a try again :-)

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 01:50 PM

My porridge trick when I was working: it was a half hour drive to work, leaving home at 6.15 am so I put real porridge oats - not quick oats - in a leakproof/heatproof container with a bit of milk, add a few unsweetened cranberries or prunes and boiling water to fill the container about three quarters full. By the time I got to work it was just right, add some more boiling water to bring the temperature back up and eat it. Lovely!

Mackerel oil and peas with porridge? Horseradish sauce and smoked salmon? What-the?? You crazy Poms! LOL

But, I use oats or red lentils to thicken stews.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 04:49 PM

Like Rap I take Metformin. Taking Metformin to the max is good for nearly everyone interested in longevity - for reasons other than sugar management.

I have a unique sugar warning system. A nerve in my calf slipped in between broken ankle bones and was slowly dissolved which was ouchy beyond belief but now if sugar induced neuropathy from type 2 occurs my nerve damage yells at me. I'm surprised at how much I can get away with by having but limiting a sweet tiny treat. It warns me with punishing pain which is easy to obey.
If a person is an alcoholic and continues to drink alcoholic sugars they will get the worst of the worst diabetic effects like blindness and amputations.

Things that I have learned to avoid are store bought fruit juice , sodas with sugar and salty snacks. With weight loss there is a reversal of type 2.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 05:22 PM

There are two new routines that I do; a couple or more showers a day focusing hot water on my feet that is sometimes combined with a couple 325 aspirin. Also a heating pad on low for the end of my bed that also ensures blood flow and comfort.
note that I am not prescribing or advising.

As for weight loss the equation is to cut all portions in half. After significant weight loss the body increases efficiency so an additional new half portion regime may be temporarily required to initiate further weight loss if necessary/

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 02:26 PM

I thought that oat milk was good for us - but apparently its got calories than skimmed milk. Confusing.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 03:18 PM

Yes, but oats have good nutritional benefits. It's not just all about calories.

oats - nutritional benefits

"Oats are an incredibly healthy whole grain and a great source of many vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants.

"Raw oats contain 70% carbs. A 1-cup (81-gram) serving contains 54 grams of carbs, including 8 grams of fiber. They are particularly high in a specific type of fiber called oat beta glucan ...

"Oats are also a relatively good source of protein and contain more protein than most grains ...

"Research suggests that eating oats may reduce your risk of heart disease by lowering your cholesterol levels ..."

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 05:59 PM

Apart from in cups of tea, Al, we use Alpro Oat Milk No Sugar. No milky lactosy issues, much lower in calories than milk, fortified with all manner of vitamins and minerals, no fat, no cholesterol, no sugar, frequently on special offer. It's absolute shite in proper coffee but it makes great porridge. I have a fridge full of it. Great on me Special K and a nice cold drink on its own. No harm to medical recommendations was done by this post.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 02:19 AM

I’ve found sugar-free soya, almond, and oat milk quite difficult to obtain here in the Backwoods - most brands stocked at our local Tesco and Mozzer’s seem to have sugar in them. I’ll check the Alpro oat milk out when I’m in Mozzer’s this morning. Thanks for the tip, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 03:51 AM

Weight Watchers now have a points system where certain food add points to your daily 'budget'. I start off with 22 points for the day. My porridge is 0 points. Lunch of, say, 2 rounds of bread with 1oz of cheese removes 8 points but if I add a handful of salad it adds one back. Etc. 2 litres of water also adds a point.

I worked out that if I have 28 sticks of celery and 4 pints of bitter, the points cancel each other out. Not only that but as beer is 96% water I can add 1 point for that so I end up with more points than I started with. Lose weight with the beer and celery diet! I could make a fortune :-D

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Helen
Date: 16 Feb 22 - 05:08 AM

I have an idea, DtG. Make beer out of celery.

Subject: RE: BS: No -no foods for diabetics
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 07:16 PM

https://brewver.com/beers/251566/Celery-Beer