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DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorseseDocumentary

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Bobert 26 Sep 05 - 07:52 PM
number 6 26 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM
Bobert 26 Sep 05 - 08:50 PM
number 6 26 Sep 05 - 08:56 PM
Bobert 26 Sep 05 - 11:01 PM
number 6 26 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM
Steve Latimer 27 Sep 05 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 27 Sep 05 - 12:36 AM
Pauline L 27 Sep 05 - 01:24 AM
Elmer Fudd 27 Sep 05 - 02:19 AM
Paco Rabanne 27 Sep 05 - 03:46 AM
mooman 27 Sep 05 - 03:56 AM
Mr Happy 27 Sep 05 - 04:27 AM
catspaw49 27 Sep 05 - 04:47 AM
Beer 27 Sep 05 - 08:12 AM
greg stephens 27 Sep 05 - 08:26 AM
Steve Latimer 27 Sep 05 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,DB 27 Sep 05 - 09:20 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Sep 05 - 09:26 AM
Little Hawk 27 Sep 05 - 09:38 AM
Lowden Jameswright 27 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 27 Sep 05 - 10:17 AM
emjay 27 Sep 05 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 27 Sep 05 - 11:41 AM
Steve-o 27 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,rubber ball 27 Sep 05 - 12:10 PM
GUEST 27 Sep 05 - 12:19 PM
Lonesome EJ 27 Sep 05 - 12:20 PM
Amos 27 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM
Ringer 27 Sep 05 - 12:26 PM
Don Firth 27 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Sep 05 - 01:44 PM
Lonesome EJ 27 Sep 05 - 02:02 PM
catspaw49 27 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM
Don Firth 27 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM
Lonesome EJ 27 Sep 05 - 02:23 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 27 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM
catspaw49 27 Sep 05 - 02:55 PM
Little Hawk 27 Sep 05 - 03:53 PM
Little Hawk 27 Sep 05 - 04:07 PM
Steve Latimer 27 Sep 05 - 04:22 PM
Steve Latimer 28 Sep 05 - 10:24 AM
Fortunato 28 Sep 05 - 10:41 AM
Amos 28 Sep 05 - 10:42 AM
Ross 28 Sep 05 - 10:47 AM
Acme 28 Sep 05 - 11:17 AM
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Ebbie 28 Sep 05 - 11:22 AM
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Subject: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:52 PM

Martin Scorsese's No Direction Home, ad ocumentary on Bob DEyalns early years airs tonight and tomorrow night on PBS... Lots of never relaesed footage...

A must fir all Dylan fans...

Little Hawk???

Bobert


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM

Been waiting to see this for some time now ... should be good.

sIx


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:50 PM

Yeah, I'm hyped as well, sIx....

It was 1964 and I was in 'bout to graduate from military school and this kid, who was from New York, invited me down to his room to hear this guy... Prior to that I had never heard of Bob Dyaln... But I listened to it an' 'bout a onth later bought my first guitar... Yeah, I wanted to sing them songs....

Firget them drums which I had been palyin' since I was 'bout 12 'er swo... I wanted to play a guitar and moan like Dylan....

Been playin''n moanin' ever since...

Yeah, there been other folks got my attention along the way but no one bigger than Bob Dylan...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:56 PM

Yeah, there been other folks got my attention along the way but no one bigger than Bob Dylan...

So true Bobert ... Mr. Z will persevere.

10 minutes and it's on.

sIx


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:01 PM

Wow!!!!

Can't wait until tomorrow night...

This has been one heck of a a trip thru the past....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: number 6
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 11:23 PM

It has .... and it's just warming up!

Good interviews with Dave Van Ronk ... I liked his take on 'House of the Rising Son'

sIx


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:21 AM

Very well done. Looking forward to tomorrow night.


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:36 AM

It was very good. Quite a nostalgia trip. Lots of old friends were there. But so many are gone now! Mike Bloomfield sure as hell could pick!!!!

Art


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Pauline L
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:24 AM

I very rarely watch TV, but I'm glad I did this time. I was spellbound. I had almost forgotten how talented and powerful Dylan was, but I was mesmerized all over again. I couldn't leave the room -- not even to eat -- and I was singing along and strumming my fiddle with him. I really liked listening to what other musicians said about him and how they said it. They were all so impressed. I liked someone's comment near the end of the show about Jung's racial subconscious and how Dylan articulated so well what so many of us were feeling.


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:19 AM

I enjoyed the early and more recent footage of Allen Ginsberg, Pete Seeger, Irwin Silber, Dave Van Ronk, Mark Spoelstra, Suzie Rotolo et al. Also the early photos and footage of Dylan in Minnesota were a hoot.


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:46 AM

Yes very interesting. I learnt a lot too such as

1) He stole 25 LP's from a chap called Paul Nelson
2) He stole 400 LP's from another chap called John Glover
3) He stole Dave Van Ronks best guitar arrangements
4) He lifted old folk tunes wholesale, put new words to them, and called them his own.
5) He consistently lied about his background
6) During the period covered by the first part of this proogramme, he was no more politically aware or active than the average plumber!!!

No wander he shuns interviews!! Remaining enigmatic shields you from your indescrections!!!!!
                         Even strawberries get it!


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: mooman
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:56 AM

Watched it and found it excellent (also the early footage of some other favourites).

Looking forward very much to Part 2.

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 04:27 AM

Echoing Flamenco Ted's observations above, I also had my gut feelings confirmed of what a scoundrel this chap is/has been.

Of course, my perceptions are coming from the British way of folk which is predominantly done for the participants' own enjoyment, whereas the American folkies seem more commercially inclined.

Nevertheless, Zimmerman's opportunism & plagiarism came across very clearly in Scorcese's documentary.

On a positive note, he did compose some brilliant songs which were original & truly his own and was also astute enough to grasp the ethos of the period in his compositions such as 'God on our side' & other anti-war 'protest' songs.


As to his adoption of the name 'Dylan' after Dylan Thomas, the welsh pronunciation is 'Dullun'.

I guess he either wasn't aware of this fact, or if he did; in probability wouldn't have felt 'Bob Dullun' had quite the same sort of ring to it!


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Subject: RE: Dylan on tube tonight and...
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 04:47 AM

Can't wait to see the other part.....and then we can have some fun on some of the topics already established. But for now.......No revelations that most Dylan folks didn't already know. I thought it funny they used the Brit audiences complaining about Dylan as a lot of American audiences felt the same way. The time sequence here is way out of whack. Anybody else notice the total lack of mention of Jack Elliott? He appears very briefly in one quick shot just standing somewhere but I didn't see anything else........No guilt over copping album collections but perhaps a bit of guilt about Ramblin' Jack?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Beer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 08:12 AM

Wow!!
Memories
Beer


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 08:26 AM

Flamenco Ted: not John Glover. that was Tony "Little Sun" Glover, I think, of "Blues Rags and Hollers" fame. Or pssibly Little Son, it was a long time ago.
    So, Bob nicked things, but was very charismatic, wrote some good songs and had the zeitgeist pretty much in his hand. Old Scorsese is obviously pretty much on the ball then.
I think the master's ability to change his face at will, like many superior performers, is stunning. He evn looked like Joan Baez for a while. And the extraordinary way he changed from being an American to looking English in the mid-60's was very revealing. Not just clothes, the whole persona.
    I dont think I learnt anything new, but it was agreat nostalgia trip. No attention given to the English 1962 trip(Castle St, Carthy, Tawney etc)....an omission I felt; that visit marked a huge Dylan change, basically from Song to Woody to Hard Rain persona.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 08:28 AM

Well, I don't think that anyone has ever accused him of being a Saint. I think that it's been pretty well documented that Bob took some liberties with the truth early in his career. However, I found it interesting to hear about him being a "Sponge", how when he returned to Minnesota after a few months he had learned all of these new styles, new songs and learned them well. He must have completely immersed himself in music to learn this stuff in that time. I enjoyed the fact that they played some clips of songs from that period, stuff that was either never released or wasn't released until many laters (Bear Mountain, No More Auction Block etc). Doing a documentary on Dylan takes some guts as there are millions of Dylan Geeks in the world (and I consider myself one) who are just waiting for a mistake. I really liked show one.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 09:20 AM

I've never liked Bob Dylan and last night's programme only confirmed my dislike. Nevertheless, the programme was fascinating, if a little superficial and given to skirting round the 'difficult' issues.
I too was shocked with the revelation that Dylan stole his friends' records - remind me not to let him near my record collection.

More importantly, the programme revealed some odd contradictions:

He came across as an arrogant, opportunistic, shallow, little git who, nevertheless, wrote these songs which really did seem to capture the spirit of the times - without actually saying very much - very odd.

Personally, I'm not too bothered that he 'borrowed' traditional tunes etc. - what better vehicles could he have used? It shows that, at least, he had some taste.

There was an article, in the Independent newspaper, recently, in which the 'Judas' shouter, at Manchester Free Trade Hall, stated that he he was really enraged because Dylan's electric set was a total shambles. Listening to the 1966 recordings, last night, suggested that he may have been right. I was suddenly struck by the realisation that I was hearing Punk 10 years before its time. This is not a compliment, by the way, I hate Punk with a vengeance - a hideous racket created by lazy, drugged up yobs!


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 09:26 AM

I'm amazed that people still take issue with items like:
He stole Dave Van Ronks best guitar arrangements
He lifted old folk tunes wholesale, put new words to them, and called them his own.
He consistently lied about his background
During the period covered by the first part of this proogramme, he was no more politically aware or active than the average plumber!!!

Big f#&king deal! People make it sound like he was the only one doing these things.   Looking back at the folk revival, back to it's roots in the 1940's, most artists were doing that.   Woody Guthrie would make Dylan look like a saint!

The fact that Dylan was probably no more poltically aware than the average "plumber" (as if something was wrong with plumbers)makes Dylans accomplishments even more brilliant.   He was able to make his songs reach an audience that the more obtuse "poltically aware" artists could not match.

I would not want him for a close friend or even a neighbor, and I would never let him borrow a record, but that isn't the point.

After all these years you would think that the die-hard folkies would give him a break. You can't live on bread alone!


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 09:38 AM

Precisely my reactions, Ron. (grin) Methinks they protest too much.

I would be happy to learn any kind of guitar or song arrangement from someone who plays better than I do... I don't call that stealing, and I sure hope no one else would either. I call it learning. I too have rewritten old trad songs. Imitation, remember, is the sincerest form of flattery. Dylan flattered Woody Guthrie and Ramblin' Jack Elliot, and Dave Van Ronk, and everyone else whose music he loved. And THEY did the same thing before HIM when they were learning their chops!

So like Ron says, gimme a fuckin' break, you holier-than-thou people.

Bobert, old buddy, I never even saw the show, because I don't have a TV. I had planned to go to Raptor's place to see it, but he had to work late. However, he and I are planning to buy the DVD very shortly, and watch it repeatedly with NO commercials! So there. I'm happy that Scorsese saw fit to do this movie. Good stuff.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM

Dylan came to London in the winter of 1961 and was ridiculed in most of the folk clubs he visited. His guitar playing was very basic and his harmonica playing laughable. His singing voice however, must have given him at least some credibility in that he sang through his nose in the time-honoured style of English folk singers like Martin Carthy.

He learned much though from his experience, and has stood the ultimate test of time. Love him or hate him, you can't deny the brilliance of his song-writing and his ability to re-invent himself (musically) countless times in keeping him where he belongs.

My first impression of Dylan was based on hearing his 1st album played in our school music room before it was officially available in the UK. I was probably one of the first kids to hear him in the UK, and I thought he was shite.

Within 2 years I had a harmonica and guitar and cut my 1st record singing a Dylan song in a Blackpool (Golden Mile) recording booth that you cost two shillings and sixpence for the priveledge. Now that record WAS shite.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 10:06 AM

Catspaw - you wondered why they used the UK reaction to Dylan as opposed to the US reaction. The simple answer is - that is the only footage they had.   Pennebaker filmed the Dylan tours and has extensive outtakes that were used in this new movie.   In Part 2 they do address the U.S. reaction, and you will see footage from Murray Lerner made at Newport (by the way - a reminder from an earlier thread - Lerner's film "Festival", a great documentary on the Newport Folk Festival will FINALLY be released to home video on October 18).   They also discuss the reaction Dylan had on several tours and.... ooops, I won't spoil it! Watch Part 2!!!


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 10:17 AM

i prefered it when he went electric..


so does this mean the entire 'infamous' 1966 manchester gig
exists on colour film
and 'could' be available for DVD release..


ps.. the only Dylan album i'd save if my house was due to
suddenly & mysteriously explode in 10 minutes..

[ok.. as well as electric half of teh 66 gig]


is 'nashville skyline'


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: emjay
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 11:21 AM

Little Hawk, we watched on PBS so there were no commercial interruptions    but buying the DVD is probably a good idea. You don't have to like Dylan to enjoy the program. It was well worth watching, I am looking forward to the second half, it was the best folk music I've seen or heard on televison in a long, long time.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 11:41 AM

Even though I love Dylan's electric stuff, I have a great deal of sympathy for those attending his early electric performances - Newport, Manchester etc. During the electric set, at those gigs, I bet the audience couldn't hear a word Dylan was singing. And even worse than that! I doubt if Dylan could hear a word he was singing!
btw, I loved the first part of the documentary.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Steve-o
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:05 PM

Thanks to Ron O. and Little Hawk for jumping on the whiners- they're around every corner these days. I thought the whole thing was wonderful- just loved seeing John Cohen and hearing his thoughts, not to mention, of course, Dave VanRonk. And Joanie was quite funny; I have heard she has a great sense of humor. And Izzy, and Harold, and...and... How about Alan Ginsberg actually choking up a little while remembering the first time he heard "Hard Rain"? Yow- what a bunch of priceless moments!


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: GUEST,rubber ball
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:10 PM

not enough screen time and historical detail devoted to the Bobby Vee connection..


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:19 PM

Brilliant and so evocative of the times, but nobody's mentioned drugs. It seemed to me that Dylan was high as a kite in Newcastle and singing the gibberish lyrics drugs induce. It was almost as though the young kid with the brilliant songs had just been taken over by an alien. And the sound balance with the band was atrocious!
No wonder an audience who had had been won over by his lyrics were annoyed when they couldn't understand a word he sang.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:20 PM

The biggest impression made on me by the old footage was the Dylan performing style, which was a unique mix of choir-boy innocence and a barely suppressed urge to grin as he laid out his brilliant lines for the audience or camera. I have always liked singer-songwriters who wear their hearts on their sleeves, like Springsteen, Steve Earle, Van Morrison, Gram Parsons, etc. Dylan is the apotheosis of this, a performer with a calculated agenda who clearly loved the adulation while disdaining it. I wouldn't want to have a beer with Bobby, and if we did, I'll bet I'd be buying.
He was brilliant, no argument. It was interesting to hear him explain his prolific songwriting in the early years as a fascination with the process. It was certainly much more than that, or he would be writing at the same level today. I think he was busy with his masterwork...creating Bob Dylan. Now that he's comfortable in that guise, he's not nearly as interesting.
I'll be watching tonight as smashes the folk icons.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM

I watched his first electric performance at Newport, and I understood the words just fine.


A


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Ringer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:26 PM

Did anyone else hear an excerpt from "Mad House on Castle Street" on BBC radio-4 yesterday am (Monday)? Apparently (I was half-asleep over breakfast) someone's mother recorded the music bits with a tape-recorder in front of the TV, thinking her son would like it, and those tapes are still extant. Since the beeb scratched the master-tapes, it's all that's left of the program.

Recording quality was less than excellent, naturally enough.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM

I watched it last night and was enthralled. I'm looking forward to tonight's thrilling episode, and I've checked and found that my local PBS affiliate will be repeating it Saturday night, both episodes, starting at 10:00 p.m. I've slapped a tape into the VCR, all set up to record it.

To be honest, I have never actually liked Dylan very much. Half the time I can't understand what the hell words he's singing, and most of the time he doesn't actually sing, he just sort of chants a song. As a performer, most of the time I find him a kind of an annoying bore. From what I've read about him in books like Positively 4th Street by David Hajdu, And a Voice to Sing With, Joan Baez' memoir, and The Mayor of MacDougal Street by Dave Van Ronk (with Elijah Wald), just as a person, I don't think I would like Dylan very much. Self-centered, egotistical, rude, and phony as a three-dollar bill. But somehow, he did have the knack of catching people's attention, even to the extent of having some people practically worship him. And he did put together some pretty punchy songs. It's obvious that he had something. Maybe I'm just not getting it!

In various interviews in the past, Dylan fed the interviewer all kinds of bullshit about who he was, where he was from, and how, in his (then) brief lifetime he had managed to be Woody Guthrie, Paul Bunyan, and a rough-hewn reincarnation of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart all rolled into one. Born and raised in Fargo, North Dakota, born on an Indian reservation somewhere in New Mexico, and God knows where else (actually Hibbing, Minnesota), hopped freights and bummed around the country since he was twelve (actually finished high school in Hibbing, registered for college, never attended classes, then hitchhiked straight to New York), met Mance Lipscomb and learned his guitar playing from him (never happened), and all sorts of other fictional accounts, apparently simply making them up on the spot. BUT—in the parts when Dylan is talking to whoever the interviewer is for this program, he seems to be fairly straight and genuine. Maybe he's finally grown up. If he were that way all the time, I think I could get to like him.

What really blows me away about this program is that practically everybody is in it.

Here was a chance to see people I had heard a lot about, maybe seen pictures of, but had never seen in person or in action on film. John Jacob Niles singing, for example. Bizarre! Fascinating! Israel G. Young who ran the Folklore Center in Greenwich Village and knew everybody. Lots of commentary from him. I've seen Odetta in person, but the short bits of her singing nailed my right in the chest! My God, she's a force! I met John Cohen in Berkeley in 1960 (he was at the Berkeley Folk Festival with the New Lost City Ramblers), and there he was, doing a lot of commentary on Dylan. Also, lots of great comments and stories by Dave Van Ronk (now, Van Ronk I could really like! Loved his book. Got it from the library, read it, then decided I had to have a copy and bought one.). Clips of Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Joan Baez, Allen Ginsberg, Mike Seeger, Maria Muldaur, even brief clips of Cisco Houston, the Weavers, and many others, with a whole eight nanoseconds of Cynthia Gooding (if you blink, you miss her).

One helluva nostalgia trip. I'm looking forward to tonight's episode. And then getting it on tape so I can go back and watch portions of it again.

Like they say, "Don't miss it if you can!"

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:44 PM

Don, this one is worth investing in the DVD!   Not only will the quality be superior to your VHS dub from the broadcast, but there are a few nice extras. I really enjoyed the clips of the guest artists singing Dylan songs - especially Liam Clancy with "Girl From North Country".   Maria Muldaur is also terrific.

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, but No Direction Home featured a very rare clip of Woody Guthrie.   The Guthrie family has numerous home movies shot of Woody while he was in the hospital, but they have been rarely shown in public - but they used a brief clip of Woody sitting on the ground and holding his guitar which clearly illustrated the battle he was facing with Huntington's. I do believe this is the first time that clip has ever been broadcast or used in a commercial venture like this.    Back in the 1970's I interviewed Marjorie Guthrie and asked her why there wasn't film on Woody. She told me that there were only two clips that they located. She did not mention the home movies because she was holding onto them and did not wish to have people remember Woody in that state.   Nora Guthrie now has a different view, and she has been showing excerpts from these films during lectures.   It gives us a vivid idea of what Woody was going through, but more importantly it showed how Woody's family interacted with their father. You realised what a loving family he had, and how Huntington's was dealt with in a very real way.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:02 PM

Ron

The fact that we are getting a closer look at Woody, as well as the Clancys, Van Ronk, Hammond, PP&M, etc is one of the best things about this special. I was too young at the time to appreciate these people, and all too often Folk Music is seen as "antique music" by young people, a stereotype which was reinforced by A Mighty Wind, as much as I enjoyed it. The scenes at Newport and in the Village showed Folk Music in its vital form, part and parcel with the beat movement and with the political upheaval that was about to sweep the country. Like Guthrie's music, the music that sprung out of Dylan was not just music of the past, but an accurate barometer of the youth movement of the time, and a harbinger of what was to come.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM

I'm impressed with the quality and length of the film clips. So often these things have a 10 second shot and that's it.Thanks Ron for the info and the bait (although unneeded) for Part 2!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM

EJ - you must check out "Festival" when it is released on DVD.   I was a bit too young to go to Newport during it's heyday, but watching the film was an eye-opener.   "Festival" was an amazing documentary, and you can see that the film makers who created "Woodstock" were using "Festival" as a "how-to" guide in many ways. Not the crazy cuts, but the intermixing of music with audience and performer dialogue. It really does give modern viwers an opportunity to see what really went on.

Also, I highly recommend the episodes of "Rainbow Quest" that Shanachie has released on DVD. This was a series that Pete Seeger hosted during the mid-1960's.   I've watched episodes with the Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem, Johnny Cash & June Carter Cash, and a few others. Another wonderful glimpse of how folk music was really offered during the time.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:11 PM

Around the first of the year, I got a new Hewlett-Packard notebook complete with a DVD player-burner, and it can handle wide-screen. Absolutely gorgeous screen! My wife and I have taken to watching a lot of movies on it. It's like HDTV. Looks almost three-dimensional, like you can practically step into the screen and join in the action.

Thanks, Ron. I'll go ahead and videotape the show, but in the meantime, I'm putting in an order for the DVD.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:23 PM

Thanks, Ron, I will.

You mentioned Pete Seeger hosting "Rainbow Quest". The film and still shots of Pete playing with the Weavers, Woody, Dylan, etc, and the quiet dignity and goodwill he still shines forth reminded me of what a living treasure Mr Seeger is to American music. Has Pete written an autobiography, and are their any documentaries that cover his life or his role in folk music?


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:32 PM

Pete "sort of" wrote an autobiography. I say "sort of" because with Pete, nothing is linear. There are two books that Peter wrote, I believe still in print, "The Incompleat Folksinger" and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone".   There are no documentaries that I know of, with the exception of the Weavers film "Wasn't That A Time".

While we are recommending books related to Seeger/Dylan/Folk Revival - check out Ronald Cohens book "Rainbow Quest".


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:55 PM

The Rainbow Quest series ought to be some kind of mandatory viewing for anyone with even the tiniest interest. What Seeger did there was the equal of anything he ever did and what he left us with those shows is truly a national treasure...or a worldwide one.

2 questions..........

Where is Peter T.? I hope he drops by for this thread at least....

Anyone else missing Fielding here?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:53 PM

Boy...to say that I can't wait to see this movie would be the understatement of all time. Ummm...mmm!


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 04:07 PM

Oh, and anyone who thinks Dylan's "electric" lyrics are merely a bunch of drug-inspired gibberish...

....just doesn't comprehend them in the least.

Kind of like "Mr Jones". "something is happening here, but you don't know what it is...do you, Mr Jones?" No wonder Bob's voice was underlined by such acid contempt as he spat out those lines in the angry songs on "Highway 61 Revisited". He was facing the emptiness of minds that only see and hear what they want to see and hear...which is something they already saw and heard 5,000 times or so before.

He broke the hidden rules of the mind. Not the mundane outer rules (like where you park your car or what poison you choose to drink or smoke in your spare time)...but the rules of enforced conformity, bland assumption, lifelessness, and unconscious, witless submission of people's lives and their children's lives to social idiocy. Modern society is largely meaningless, crass, corrupt, and insane, and he knew it. He said it. He said it plainly. People didn't like it. A lot of them still don't like it.

Dylan, like Mikhail Gorbachev in the 80's in Russia, was offering his audience something that a whole lot of them just were not aware enough to grasp or know what to do with. He was no ordinary entertainer, though he might have wished he was! It would have been a lot easier to deal with, after all, wouldn't it?


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 04:22 PM

'Spaw, do you think that Rick might have had some comments on it? ;-)


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:24 AM

I enjoyed last night's show even more than I did Monday's. I will definitely get the DVD. I am a fan of Bob's music through just about every era, I was seven when he went electric, so I heard that stuff first. But, to me the highlights of last night's show were the clips of him alone on on stage with his acoustic and harmonica. It's All Over Now Baby Blue, Visions of Johanna, It's Allright Ma, Love Minus Zero etc. Mesmerizing. I also enjoyed him sitting with Johnny Cash working out harmonies for Hank Williams' I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry.

Bob has had a bad rap with the media, but some of those questions!!! I loved the look that he gave the guy who asked what the significance of the Triumph Motorcycle on his tee shirt was on the cover of Highway 61 Revisited. It was "you're kidding me, right?". The guy was serious and had his own ideas what it went. There is the problem with Dylan geeks (hey, I'm a pseudo Dylan geek). It was just a flippin' tee shirt.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Fortunato
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:41 AM

I liked the production and editing choices. Most of the footage I had not seen, and much of it was arresting. Best for me was Joan Baez's take on Bob and their relationship. By coincidence I had flown in from Oakland on the plane with Joan on Friday and seeing her had brought a memory. I had forgotten how phenomenal her voice was then. Joan's language was a surprise in the interview, apparently she and 'catspaw and I are enamored of some of the same @#$%ing words.

Also very funny were the British interviewers questions, and Bob's careful answers.

cheers, Chance


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:42 AM

LOL, Steve!

The wonderful thing about part 1 was that it captured the zany quantum collisons of the time -- the wild meanderings, the overttones from Kerouac and Ginsberg and Corso, the crossings and uncrossings of fates and live. And in some of those shots from the outside of the Cafe Wha, you get a glimpse of how these immemorial moments, these earth-shaking transitions (Bob meets Joan, the situation desk at CORE, the wilding tenor of Niles, all these amazing probes into the future) were absolutely disguised by the dirty streets and commercial ordinariness of the exteriors of the buildings, even in wild-ass Greenwich Village. There were no herald angels saying "Van Ronk is come!" or "Lo! Odetta!". It took a long time to percolate into the mainstream, largely thanks to Hammond and the people who operated gerdy's and the other sites. All this magic, hidden from the public eye.

What an amazing trip those years were. I am sure that, except for a couple of small lifechanging choices that took me to England and then to sea, I would have been in the brawl, sleeping on sofas and hitchiking to strange places.

I loved the show for bringing me back to that rich crossroads of endless possibility, when we were all in our teens or 20's and anything could happen, and most everything did.


A


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Ross
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:47 AM

Help me

I was watching BBC4 last night; I think I saw Lulu singing 'Tambourine Man' dressed all in pink with 12 No. manic dancers swarming around her playing tambourines

Is this the first signs of madness?

Does Bob know this happened?


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Acme
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 11:17 AM

These programs were such a heady rush through a rich time and history. Those tunes take you back faster than a time machine. I am intrigued by the corresponding musical growth in my family--like Don, my father (John Dwyer) was no fan of Dylan back then, and I don't think he ever changed his mind. Yet as I watched the first night and listened to so many of the groups and works that informed and inspired Dylan, I saw a parallel track to what Dad was following with his early music.

Part of the difference no doubt was that my Dad was about 20 years older than Dylan, was a librarian with a job and a family, and in the early years of learning music he decided to take the purist approach, learning the Child Ballads and working forward from there. Dylan took a lot of traditional music and words and processed them, coming out with songs as rich but in the end, more meaningful (because of its wider dissemination) to the popular culture of this modern generation. Dad was close to his research and found Dylan's work off-putting.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the program. As to whether I would like Dylan as a person in person or not, that question is not likely to be resolved. But I am, as someone else mentioned, happy to see the remarks from so many people of the era, collected into this film, especially people like Ginsberg.

Here's a clip to add to the collection of citations growing in this thread: "Fresh Air from WHYY, December 8, 2004 · Rock historian Ed Ward reviews Bob Dylan's new autobiography, Chronicles, Vol. I.

SRS


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Grimmy
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 11:21 AM

There was a tantalisingly brief glimpse of a boyish John Renbourn, sitting cross-legged on some hotel room floor, picking away on his guitar while the mayhem went on all around him. I'll bet Bert was there too, but we didn't see him. Priceless images.


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Subject: RE: DylanOnTube-PBS/ScorceseDocumentary
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 11:22 AM

(Sorry, Bobert- I didn't see this thread before I started the other one.)

The thing just blew me away. As I've said before, I had missed the whole Dylan thing and this was fascinating to me. I think the man is a genius- and I think the people around him- many of them geniuses themselves at what they did - thought the same.

How many performers in their 20s ever have as their backup people like Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, PP&M, the Staples Singers and on and on! As Mavis Staples said, Bob Dylan was articulating THEIR perceptons, perceptions that he had no way of knowing other than by the gift of insight and empathy.

Judging by the reaction of the UK to the subject, they still hold a grudge. *G*

How many here, given such lightning speed of a career and in the context of those tumultuous times think that they would have handled themselves better than Dylan did? How many here - or anywhere - would not have flamed out?

Bob Dylan showed stunning focus on the things that mattered to him. One of the things I thought came through very clearly was the fans' and the media's demands that a performer meet their own needs and demands. It has happened to innumerable performers and there is no sign of that changing. Most human beings can't handle very well the combination of adulation and tons of money. Those who survive it or who make their own way in spite of it are truly remarkable.

The questions he was asked were beyond inane. I've little doubt that at times he didn't field them as brilliantly as he did in the clips shown, but I'm full of admiration for the times that he did.

Last night after Part 2 was over, Scorsese was interviewed by Charlie Rose, and that was interesting too.

It seems odd that the DVD was on the market before the shows were aired.


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