BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?

Subject: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 09:51 PM

Is Hezbollah Winning?

They are winning the PR war with the help of the media:

The liberal Western media have taken to emphasizing and elaborating on Israel's bombings of Hezbollah targets in Lebanon—framing them as an attack on the Lebanese people—while minimizing Hezbollah's continued attacks on Israel. The anti-Israel slant comes through in news report after news report—whether it's in the pictures shown, the individuals interviewed, the questions asked; it's all largely projected through an anti-Israel lens.

Hezbollah, of course, would be thrilled at this. But, more than passively letting world media project its cause, Hezbollah has a deliberate strategy of using the Western media to help it in the battle for world opinion. The media, of course, play into its hands perfectly.


http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=2403

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 09:58 PM

Of course. The Viet Cong set up an excellent example of media manipulation. Of course, both the US and Israel left and have left themselves open....

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:13 PM

The world is a funny place. Prior to 1973 most of the world favored Israel, but they kept winning and getting stronger. After regaining Jerusalem and the West Bank in '67, along with Palestinean population long neglected by Jordan, things slowly changed. Now there was a perceived weaker party in the area, and the world loves an underdog. So yes, Hizbullah and Hamas ares winning...at least the PR war as stated by OldGuy.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Amos
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:45 PM

Well, PR is PR and reality is reality. Lebanon is torn asunder and their borders completely under the control of a perceived enemy. Israel, though it has been shaken up and lost some citizens, has suffered no such losses.

No, Hezbollah is not winning. Every major element in the region seems to agree that the path out involves getting the government of Lebanon back in control of regions which Hezbollah has taken over.

Where's the win in that?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:51 PM

"Where's the win in that?"

Hezbollah will have more Lebanese, Syrian youth joining their cause ... their cause will outlive the Lebanese army that will obviously be imptotent in maintaining order.

Their PR works. very well.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:55 PM

STOP the Madness!
Bring them ALL HOME!
Star, Crescent and Cross.
These are our CHILDREN for gods and goddesses sake!!

WHO THE FUCK CARES WHO IS 'WINNING'??? NOBODY IS!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 10:59 PM

Right on, Sorcha. Completely right!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: number 6
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:00 PM

Unfortunately they are home Sorcha ... the star, the crescent, and the cross ... it is their homes they are fighting for. Again the children are manipulated by the big players ... whether they are babies killed by a rocket or a teen joining the ranks in the forces of the fighting machines.

All are losers in this sick game.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:05 PM

'Regaining' Jerusalem and the West Bank? Zionist theft through superior force. Much of Lebanon will be occupied and be swallowed into Israel.

Hezbollah cannnot survive the Israeli assault, but its message is spreading throughout the Muslim world. It and similar organizations will become increasingly important in governments in the Middle East.

The message is strong on the internet; carried by Radio SawtBeirut and other media in the Muslim world. The latest political cartoon by Shugaat in Aljazeera illustrates the result of actions by Bush and Olmert succinctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 07 Aug 06 - 11:19 PM

It is interesting ,Q, that you chose to only respond to a single clause of my statement above, but ignore the part which implicates that Palestineans could have had a country before 1967. Are you really that hateful of Israel?

BTW how much of Lebanon do you foresee as becoming part of Israel...only the good parts I hope.? I think it is more likely, but improbable, that Israel will be swallowed by Arab countries. That'll make you really happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:00 AM

"but ignore the part which implicates that Palestineans could have had a country before 1967"

And if only you were there to implicate them the country they would have it right?

Then why can't they have a country now?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:08 AM

John on the Sunset can mis-state history with the best of them.

The Palestinians were being swamped by Zionists from Europe and especially America, and sooner or later would have ended up in the same position they are in now. This massive influx of people and money, especially after WW2, would upset the proposed partition into Jewish and Arab states with Jerusalem internationalized, which the United Nations was attempting to accomplish that in 1947.
Israel declared its independence and the almost immediately following war in 1948 secured over 75 per cent of the land and most of Jerusalem to Israel.
Over half of the Palestinians fled or were expelled. Egypt and Jordan compounded the situation by occupying part of the territory. In the 1967 war, Israel gobbled up these territories, and annexed the rest of Jerusalem. The number of refugees was now some 2 million, a number too large to be absorbed by their Arab neighbors.

The United Nations called on Israel to withdraw, but of course the resolution was ignored. This was followed by further ineffective actions by the UN.

Of the Muslims and few Christians who stayed in the conquered territories, the Israeli government has guaranteed that their representation in the government will always be ineffective.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Slag
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:43 AM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 04:15 AM

Certainly not the 1000 or more dead in Lebanon, slaughtered by US made bombs.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:09 AM

No... And niether is Isreal...

There will be no winners in this war... Just losers...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:32 AM

The first truth of war is casualties.

Hizbullah have vowed to wipe out Israel. Does anyone seriously think they could do it?

Israel seem intent in wiping out Southern Lebanon, again.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:38 PM

Q: You really should get your facts re: 1948 straight. You should find out whether the Palestinians were asked to stay in Israel by the Israelis or were urged to leave by their "brethren" ---who then shunned them. Also, let us recall who attacked who at that time. Let us also recall the UN vote that allowed for the creation of the State of Israel.

    As to the other note regarding top dog/underdog status (Not Q's). I guess that is human nature--we do it all the time. Person builds a business from nothing and then when it is hugely successful we chuckle if he has bad times. We love to see a winner defeated---tennis, baseball, you name it. Human nature---but, happilly, not deadly as is this horrible situation.

Bill H

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 07:45 PM

"Asked to stay in Israel"- What nonsense! That would mean losing their identity and subjugating themselves to a people and country not their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:14 PM

http://www.stratfor.com/products/premium/read_article.php?id=271641

Saudi Arabia: Saudi Scholar Denounces Hezbollah
August 05, 2006 14 20 GMT

A top Saudi religious scholar and former dissident issued a fatwa Aug. 5, denouncing Hezbollah as the "party of the devil." Sheikh Safar al-Hawali, whose ideas influenced al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and who was imprisoned for opposition to the Saudi government, warned Muslims from praying for Hezbollah in a fatwa posted on his Web site.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:21 PM

Photoshop useful for Hezbollah Propaganda and MSM

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/08/08/photo-alter-beirut.html

Altered Beirut photos raise ethics questions
Last Updated Tue, 08 Aug 2006 13:04:55 EDT
CBC Arts

Questions about journalistic integrity emerged this weekend from the continuing conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, after a photojournalist was found to have doctored two images out of Beirut.

The Reuters News Agency has withdrawn more than 900 images from its database taken by Adnan Hajj, one of its freelance photographers based in Beirut.

According to a Reuters spokesperson, Hajj has denied deliberately attempting to manipulate the photos, saying he was trying to remove dust and made mistakes because of poor lighting conditions.

Hajj has also worked as a freelancer for the Associated Press, which is reviewing his photos in its own archive to verify their authenticity.

Responding to allegations of tampering, Reuters discovered that Hajj had manipulated two recent photos: one showing the aftermath of an Israeli air strike on a suburban neighbourhood and another showing an Israeli jet fighter flying over southern Lebanon.

The first photo had been manipulated to show more and darker smoke rising from the buildings, while the second image showed the plane dropping three flares instead of just one, Reuters said.

"There is no graver breach of Reuters standards for our photographers than the deliberate manipulation of an image," Tom Szlukovenyi, Reuters global picture editor, said in a statement.

"Reuters has zero tolerance for any doctoring of pictures and constantly reminds its photographers, both staff and freelance, of this strict and unalterable policy."

Quick reaction over the weekend

After Reuters published the smoking buildings photo on Saturday, the online community began claiming that the photo was altered. The agency conducted a review and found the image had indeed been changed using Photoshop. Reuters terminated its relationship with Hajj on Sunday.

The agency then began an immediate review of Hajj's other recent work and, on Monday, found that the jet photo taken Aug. 2 had also been doctored. Reuters then withdrew from its database the 920 photos Hajj had taken for the agency over the years.

"This doesn't mean that every one of his 920 photographs in our database was altered. We know that not to be the case from the majority of images we have looked at so far but we need to act swiftly and in a precautionary manner," Szlukovenyi said.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:26 PM

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/184233.php

August 08, 2006
Staged Reuters Photo Incites Muslims to Jihad

Yet another staged Reuters photo. This one with much more distubing implications. A Koran being burned. The caption seems to blame this act of desecration on inaction by the U.S. and U.N. Who took the photo? Adnan Hajj.

I talked about this earlier, but felt it deserved its own space.

A copy of the Koran burns in Southern Beirut after the Hizbollah stronghold was targeted by Israeli airstrikes July 16, 2006. Israeli air raids shook Beirut on Sunday, the fifth day of a devastating assault on Hizbollah and Lebanon that has prompted no UN Security Council action and only a mild plea for restraint from Israel's U.S. ally. Reuters/Adnan Hajj (Beirut)

Very troubling because:

a) it's clearly staged
b) it's clearly meant to incite Muslims
c) it's by you-know-who

Hajj, like all of us, knows exactly what happens when infidels burn Korans. Or flush them down the toilet. Even if the infidels really don't desecrate the Koran, the accusation is enough.

Thanks to Jake for saving the photo and the caption minutes--literally--before Yahoo news yanked them. Jake adds this:

    Clearly, there was some amount of time between the attack and Adnan Hajj arriving on scene to photograph the results.

    If the book was set ablaze by the blast of the bomb, the book would have long disappeared into ash before Hajj arrived with camera and Photoshop in tow.

    The intact burnt pages on the right indicate this is a fast burning fire that rapidly consumed half the book prior to the photo being taken, so fast that the fragile ashen pages have not disintegrated.

    If the book was not set on fire by the blast of the explosion (which is unlikely anyway... the force of the atmospheric overpressure would likely prevent any jetsam object like a book to ignite...I was an aircraft weapons specialist in the US Air Force, BTW), but kindled by residual fires, then there should be burning debris or smoke rising from the rubble around the Koran. There is none in the
    photo.

    The only flames or smoke sources in that photo are from the rapidly disappearing Koran. I would wager two minutes after this photo was taken the book would be fully engulfed, and reduced to ash not long afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 08:30 PM

OG,

I just posted a link to the news article on the Gaza thread. Good eye, and thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:21 PM

Q wrote:

"Asked to stay in Israel"- What nonsense! That would mean losing their identity and subjugating themselves to a people and country not their own.

As opposed to the Turkish Sultanate or the English Mandate?

Why is everything legitimate but Israeli representative self government, which is available to all citizens?

Sounds like a good way to exemplify identity and avoid subjugation.

Maybe Q thinks there is no subjugation in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia.

End the Unjust Occupation of Muslim Lands

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:33 PM

RE: Doctored photo of Beirut

I use Photoshop a lot and that repeating pattern you see in the smoke is caused by the clone stamp tool.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:39 PM

That was me about Photoshop

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: number 6
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 09:56 PM

Actually ... being a user of PhotShop I'm rather surprised at how amateur looking the 'cloned' smoke looks.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Peace
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 10:08 PM

The world according to Hezbollah . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 01:09 AM

Q, whom do you think you are kidding? Firstly, I do not mis-state history, but you certainly ignore it.
There could have been a Palestinean in 1948 before the war. There could have been a Palestinean state any time between 1948 and 1967, had Jordan and Egypt assisted Palestineans instead of de-facto annexing the West Bank and Gaza. So tell me if Arabs would not form a Palestinean country, why should Israel have done so, back then?
If tiny Israel could take in millions of Jews from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Yemen, Ethiopia and Europe into an area about the size of New Jersey, it seems to me that Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and other Arab countries, covering an area probably a hundred fold larger, could have accommodated the then Palestinean population (which I think was significantly less than 2 million in 1948, but I'll give you that number.)
Jack-the Sailor, that is what I was obliquely stating above, and I think you really know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 01:12 AM

Q, you never did answer my question regarding how much of Lebanon you think Israel would 'absorb'. Or were you just writing hyperbolically?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Slag
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 01:50 AM

There were many Jews living in "Palestine" before 1948 on land legally purchased by Jews. Many Arabs were delighted to sell "worthless sand" to the stupid Jews. Of course those "stupid" Jews made the land bloom and produce. They made way for their brethern fleeing from the anti-Semantism of Europe. The Prospect of a homeland was a welcome idea to those who had faced genocide and survived. Israel, a tiny, and I mean TINY country in the vast Middle East. The original state was less than it's current 8019 square miles. That's smaller than Rhode Island. That's smaller than San Bernardino County, CA by more than half. It's smaller than Inyo Co. CA. It is smaller than Kern Co. CA where I was born and raised. And this was THEIR homeland for over a thousand years excepting the Babylonian Captivity. It was the Roman Empire who forcibly and bloodily removed them and changed the name of the place to Palestine, their term for Phonecia. There are no Phonecians, no Palestinians. The hallmark of the Philistine was lack of circumcision, acrobysta in the Greek. Arabs are a circumcised people (peritoma). There are no Palestinians. So here are all these Arabic and Muslim states surrounding tiny Israel and they can't accomodate their brothers? They can't take them in with their HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of square miles? They can't help? They don't want to help. They want the status quo so that it will foment unrest and give them a flimsy pretext to destroy Israel, the Jewish State.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 04:24 AM

about three all, with the prospect of extra time.

a couple of yellow cards issued, but both sides looking forward to the re-match.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 06:45 AM

A (Eastern) Catholic Churcj Leader has stated that he finds that people are becoming more sympathetic to Hezbollah as the carnage continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 08:26 AM

Good for him. So what. The Vatican wasn't too sympathetic to the Jews during the 2nd World War.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 09:44 AM

Of course they're winning. No surprise, there. Israel has nothing to look forward to but endless rocket attacks and new Intifada-s for the forseeable future. Their enemies have time and numbers on their side(s), and Israel has... the US. Which won't be a superpower forever. They should've colonised a more laid back country, I guess. Nauru, maybe.

And not that any of us will be here to see it, but in one hundred years, I seriously doubt that there will be a state called "Israel" on the map. Inevitable, really. See, oh, the Kingdom of Jerusalem on the map these days? Or... the Principalitry of Antioch? Rhodesia, even? No? Why not?

OldGuy: Hey, nice to see you're quoting openly racist blogs like The Jawa Report. Makes you easier to ignore. So, since you're apparently incapable of articulating your views without a copy-and-paste, why don't you fuck off back to your little Jawa hole? That's, like, all those fuckers do. Copy-paste, nod, froth, etc.

Oh, and robomatic: You're still showing that idiotic "Arab land" map around? Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Armenia, etc.? Do you even know what an Arab is, dude? I mean... and I'm not even going to go after the "oh it's just a little postage stamp country" thing as depicted in the map, because I really couldn't care less about your opinions on the matter, and I have no desire to "convert" you... But about half of your map isn't "Arab." And it's not like this is obscure information, or difficult to find out. Look it up. Even Wikipedia, or some shit. I mean, you're online right now. How hard is it? Do your homework, or your opinion doesn't mean anything.

Well, it doesn't mean much, anyways. But do try harder, anyways.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 02:15 PM

Amos: "Perceived?" Hezbollah is a "perceived" enemy of Israel? What part of Hezbollah's belief that Israel should be destroyed do you not understand?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 02:35 PM

Hezbolla would love to invade Israel and wipe it out. No doubt.
Could they do it? Unlikely.

Israel does not want to invade Lebanon. Are they doing it? Yes for the second time.

Who is the biggest liar?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 02:49 PM

Doug:

You're twisting words again.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 08:07 PM

Just thought I'd add my tuppence. Someone above said the US won't be a superpower forever. That's certainly true, as history teaches. the Roman empire, the British empire, they've all disappeared in time. But I think we can safely say that it won't happen any time soon re. the USA (though China is gettin stronger by the day, and would have no qulams about taking on the USA if it thought it could - you'll see that some day soon it'll annex Taiwan and none of the 'democracy' exporting neo-cons in the White House will pip up a single word about it). The real problem for Israel is that it is still heavily dependent on US sponsorship, right down to the bombs it was delivered there the other week. US interest in the region is largely dictated by the presence of oil (there are lots of other places struggling under dictatorship, but not a US marine is to be found anywhere in Zimbabwe, for example). Once the oil finishes, the US will drop the region like a hot potato, and Israel will find itself rather isolated amongst extremely hostile Arab neighbours (especially if China vetos US action, as they are already making rumbling noises about in relation to Iran). It makes very good sense for Israel to strike some sort of deal with its Arab neighbours. Now I know they have not been the most accomodating, and indeed they invaded Isarel the day after the state was declared, but Israel has not been doing itself any favours either by ignoring UN resolutions, engaging in land grabs and so on. Its incursions into Lebanon and the West Bank were planned weeks before the kidnapping of their soldiers. Indeed, these very same soldiers they set out to rescue - the supposed pretext for their invasion of Lebanon etc., - are unfortunately probably lying dead under some of the buildings Israeli bombs have flattened, dropped by their IDF colleagues. So you see, it was never about the kidnapped soldiers, but like the WMD it provided a good excuse for another agenda. If they had really intended to rescue them it would have made more sense to send in a highly trained commando platoon acting on good intelligence. Meanwhile, hundreds of Lebanese civilians who have no connection with Hezbollah, are lying dead because US-made Israeli dropped 'smart' bombs turned out not to be so smart after all. Does the kidnapping of a few soldiers Knesset doesn't really give a hoot about justify killing whole families, children, funeral mourners? You might say Hezbollah have been using the civilian population as shields. It's seems a clever argument and has done the rounds. But when the Israelis advised the civilians to flee, they then bombed them almost as soon as they tried to escape! The situation in Israel is more complicated - since every adult Israeli (man or woman) is also a member of the IDF, in a sense they are as legitimate a target as a Hezbollah fighter is to the Israelis, if there is a state of war. Moreover, I remember seeing photos in Newsweek back in 2004 showing the IDF using a palestinian teenager as a human shield, tying him onto their jeep. So, no moral high ground in that instance. G.Bush and Rice (will the real president please stand up?) have muttered angrily about Iran sponsoring Hezbollah and how Syria and Iran must respect Lebanese sovereignty, without the slightest hint of a sense of irony, as they sponsor Israel and say nothing about its complete disregard for Lebanese soveriegnty.
The most logical explantion I have seen for Israel's invasion of southern Lebanon is to gain control of the Litani river, an important and strategic source of fresh water which Israel feels it badly needs. Indeed, it was interesting to note Knesset state that they will push on into Lebanon 'as far as the Litani river' on the news tonight.
But as someone said on this forum already - there will be no winners as such in this war. Even if Israel succeeds in its aims of grabbing southern Lebanon as far as the Litani river, the resentment caused will ensure Hizbollah etc., will have an endless stream of recruits, and so Israel will explain (after the fact, as usual) that it now needs to invade north of the Litani river to protect itself, and so on all the way up to the North Pole and off the planet. The problem is that, especially since George Bush came to power, the loudest voices on all sides - Iranian, Syrian, Israeli, US - have been the neo-con warmongers with their unshakeable belief in military might being the cure for all the world's ills. Unfortunately, the only military solution to terrorism - whether Hizbollah or Israeli - is genocide. You can't convince people to like and trust you and live peacefully by killing them and destroying everything they have, so the only other way is to wipe them all out so you don't have to live with their resentment. If the parties involved keep going the way they are, they may well end up dragging us all into World War Three. Maybe then they'll be happy with themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:12 AM

GUEST,

EASTERN Catholics have NO conncetion to the Vatican...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:40 PM

GUEST Nick makes by far the most convincing argument and prognosis. As some South African (white) politician once said to an American politician, re. the racial problems in the then Rhodesia, "we should have done with our indigenous peoples as you did with yours....".

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: AggieD
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 01:48 PM

I would like to ask a few of questions at this point:

1) If Israel is getting it's arms/rockets or whatever from the US, where does Hezbollah get their's from? Or are they all home-made in someones garage?

2)How do the press know that Hezbollah are using underground tunnels to run back to like rats, leaving the innocents above ground to be targeted by Israeli rockets at the points from where Hezbollah launch their attacks?

3)If Hezbollah are a genuine army of fighters that are backed by other Arab/Muslim countries, why don't we see them ever depicted as such, as we see the Israeli army? Does that make them terrorists by default as thier fighting is always clandestine?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 05:38 PM

Nick thanks for the rational viewpoint. I think there is no 'winning' side yet. I think the leadership of Hezbollah, and Hamas, and the other myriad terror org's out there is very cynical and very based within their own culture. They must 'keep up appearances' at ALL COST. Therefore, they will make up whatever motivations seem most opportune to the time. They must claim victory no matter what. No matter how many Lebanese they get killed in the process.

As far as the sympathy vote goes for, it counts for little. I think Israel discounted it entirely. The terrorists have attacked schools and killed Israeli children for generations now. The world says wot a pity. This time the world can say 'wot a pity' for some Lebanese by-catch (collateral damage). What the Lebanese will remember is that the Israelis have acted this way before, are likely to act this way again, it really hurts, and maybe the Hezbollah should be less venturous with people who do not want to be shaheeds.

I think the Israelis are fed up with the terrorists, fed up with the Lebanese, and fed up with the UN. I don't blame them, but I fear they are at a 'us against the world' point which will do them no good even if it is true. The terror/suicide/homicide/fascists are also in their own little world. They will try to go on unless stopped on their own side of the border.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Old Guy
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 10:56 PM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0608100186aug10,1,5460126.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

Lebanon's Druze leader says militants' agenda will lead to disaster

By Liz Sly
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published August 10, 2006

MUKHTARA, Lebanon -- Ensconced in his ancestral castle, perched high in the mountains above Beirut, Druze leader Walid Jumblatt is articulating some boldly unorthodox views on the conflict engulfing his country.

As a fierce critic of Hezbollah and its role in provoking a war with Israel, Jumblatt has emerged as a lone voice of dissent amid the clamor of pro-Hezbollah cheerleading that has gripped much of Lebanon and turned Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah into a national hero.

"If I were opportunistic, I would tell you now, `Long live Nasrallah.' I am not going to tell you that," he says in an interview at the 300-year-old castle. "I know my position is not popular, in the Arab world or in Lebanon. But I will stick to my position."

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Slag
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 12:07 AM

Do you have the coordinates for that position?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 01:38 AM

"Is Hezbollah Winning?"

In short, no!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 03:45 AM

So let me get this straight.

One of the world's fiercest and well-equipped armies with total control of the air and able to bomb at will - which they are virtually doing - with an unlimited supply of arms and other resources, thousands of troops and tanks in the field, are being held back by a number of guerillas and so-called "terrorists". I say so-called because the Israeli army is terrorising a population just as much and frankly I don't see the difference.

Bit like Vietnam really. Now - who "won" that one?

I happen to think that no-one did, but one thing for certain, the Americans (read Israelis)lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 09:33 AM

Vietnam/USA = Iraq/USA
Not Israel - Hizbollah

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Old Guy
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 10:59 AM

http://www.cjp.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=191974

Israeli leaflets list dead Hezbollah fighters

Deutsche Presse-Agentur (dpa)
08/11/2006


Beirut (dpa) - Israeli jets on Friday dropped leaflets over parts of the Lebanese capital Beirut listing the names of 100 Hezbollah guerrillas who it claimed had been killed in fighting with Israeli troops.

The leaflets fell on areas loyal to the militant Hezbollah movement, including the southern suburbs and areas where Shiite refugees from the south of the country are staying.

"(Hezbollah chief Sheikh Hassan) Nasrallah is killing your children for nothing," the leaflets read.

Most of the leaflets fell on parks across the capital, where refugees are staying.

"This is part of the psychological war the enemy is using on us. We tell them we will not bow," said a Hezbollah follower.

The leaflets listed some 100 guerrillas who it said had been killed by Israeli troops in southern Lebanon.

Hezbollah so far has said that only 58 of its guerrillas died in clashes since Israel began its onslaught on Lebanon on July 12 in response to a cross-border raid by the Shiite militia.

Israeli reports said more than 300 guerrillas had been killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 04:23 PM

"Hezbollah so far has said that only 58 of its guerrillas died"

The press also reported that 58 people died at Cana. Turns out there were 28 dead at Cana. Numbers have a funny way of being changed in wars. Depends on who's doing the reporting I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Hezbollah Winning?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Aug 06 - 12:17 AM

Hmmmm....

The leaflets listed some 100 guerrillas who it said had been killed by Israeli troops
[snip]
Hezbollah so far has said that only 58 of its guerrillas died in clashes since Israel began its onslaught on Lebanon on July 12
[snip]
Israeli reports said more than 300 guerrillas had been killed.


"Numbers have a funny way of being changed in wars. Depends on who's doing the reporting I guess. "