BS: Actions to promote peace

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 16 Mar 03 - 11:01 AM

Good for you Bobert! Glad to hear you went for it and the march. Wasn't it just a gorgous day out there yesterday! It was here. About 50 degees F. and sun shine.
Ours was once again a small group of people. I'm guessing a little less than 50% of passing cars were for us and/or peace. I can definitely say we are a community divided on the issue. I was called a communist and didn't deserve to be living in this country. I was called wicked because I couldn't go for the fact that the will of god was to destroy a nation of people (some people!) And dig this- there was a group of young men, around 16 yr olds that came out and stood across the hwy. from us, protesting our protest. They chanted bomb Saddam. We had one encounter with the police. He drove up to us on the sidewalk and asked us if we were doing anything illegal! Ha! Of course our answer was no! But we weren't anyway. We made sure all was right. No parking or standing in private property was their main concern. So all in all another interesting day and I met a few more new friends.
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Mar 03 - 08:35 PM

Man oh man! Big day in D.C.! Reminded me of the Moritoruium demonstration during the Vietmen War, just more creative. I have no idea how many folks were in attendence but over 200,000 is a safe and probably very conservative figure.

Them police presence was on the "overkill" side with the 2 miles march route lined on both sides wityh police every four feet or so. Way too many. Plus, the police had two helicopters flying in a tight circle overhead which was distracting.

But what I came away with was my continued amazement of the "kids", aged 18 to 20 something. These kids are great. The are super creative and motivated. And they can play some mean drums. There must have been over a hundred different drum groups with their African drums bringing so much to the event. Made me forget how bad my feet hurt.

Lots of folks took picture of my sign which read "Whose God are you hearing, Mr. Bush & Co?" which has now survived three major demonstrations in the last few months.

All and all, though I can barely walk tonight, I'm content that I did what the Holy Spirit asked of me. Hopefully, Mr. Bush will hear the voice of the Holy Spirit, 'cause right now he is a lost soul.

Peace...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 11:35 PM

Go Rustic and Bobert!! Thanks!!

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:23 PM

We are holding a rally tommorrow also. And a candlelight vigil will take place Sunday around the world. Have a good time Bobert. My signs for tommorrow; We don't control the world and drop sanctions not bombs. I liked- One nation under Bush, with liberty and justice for oil, but it's too damn long! Peace to all and hope for our voices to be heard this week-end! Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:34 PM

Okay, folks! Tomorrow may be the last opportunity to tell the Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rumsfeld regime where to stick their war before that change the course of the US forever!

The demonstration in Washington, D.C. will begin at noon east of the Washington Monuement and accross from the White House. As per usual, Bush won't be around. (Word on the street is that he has kept the First Lady locked up with rental movies and she knows nothing about his plans?... Boy, is he ever gonna get it when she finds out. "You did *what*?!?!?!!...)

Anyway, my son, Ben is taking the second part of his GED tomorrow so he's gonna miss this one, but heck, the kid has made his oold man proud in that he has been to all the others...

Yo Dougie: C-Span is gonna cover the event so if I see 'em pointin' a camera at me, I'll flip my "Whose God Are You Hearing, Mr. Bush" sign around which reads, "Dougie is a Knucklehead!" Whaddaythink?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 01:03 AM

Absolutely Doug, although I'm still holding out on hope that I won't have to prove anything!
Peace. Rustic (chanting NO-WAR!)

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 12:46 AM

I would just like to know one thing from all of you who believe that the projected war with Iraq is all about oil. If, after it is all over and the country stabilized, the U. S. and Great Britain DO NOT keep the oil fields for their own, will you admit that you were wrong?

If you are right, I, for one, will shout to whoever will listen that you were right.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 12:36 AM

DougR- No I don't blame the US alone for sanctions.The United Nations Security Council are the ones who apply sanctions. They are France, Germany, Guinea, Mexico, Pakistan, Russia, Spain. Syrian Arab Republic, UK, US, Angola, Bulgaria, Cameroon, China and Chile.
The thing about sanctions is maybe Hussein is at fault for them but the people of the country are paying for it.

Iraq being a sovereign nation rejected the "food-for-oil" resolution in 1991 because they felt it wasn't compatable with their sovereignty. By putting together revenues for humanitarian purposes and those intended for compensation payments and weapons inspections, the humanitarian crisis was politicised.
Now talks about 'smart sanctions' are going on, that put the pressure on regimes and not the people. Smart sanctions involve freezing financial assets and blocking financial transactions of the political elite. That seems to be the better route to effect Hussein rather than starving a nation of people don't you think?
The 'food-for-oil' program seems to be a tricky way to still get oil and money from them while killing them off in a slow way.
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:58 PM

Old Guy,
I haven't talked with a single opponent to War in Iraq who thinks that Saddam Hussein is anything higher than vile swine (meaning of course, no disrespect to our porcine brethren and sistren). What is being challenged is the rightness and effectiveness of war at this time and under these circumstances, and also whether this is something that we should legitimately intevene into. Far-reaching concerns about national sovereignty are necessarily relevant, as are possible long-term ramifications. Yes, the pain and suffering of his victims is horrible to conceive. But it is not the whole argument. And there are other such experiences in other populations in the world which we are completely ignoring, too. (See: getting the whole story/FCC media consolidation.)

Let us not forget that there are a whole string of interventions with the USA name on them going back for most of my life, anyway, that included so-called "good guys" doing similar things to decent folks with *our* funding, training, and support, and often our encouragement. So if we are talking moral high ground, let's at least keep things honest, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:44 PM

kat: I read the article. It was about what I would expect from an organization whose soul purpose for existance is based on the prevention of war, regardless of the legitimacy of the war effort. It is a well written piece of propaganda in my opinion. You will note that their position paper is not confined to the health aspects but also contains several political jibes. If they wanted the paper to be taken seriously, they would have confined the report to health. That, supposedly, is their expertise.

Much is predicated in the report on the use of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. Since Iraq has none of these, the meat of the whole report is suspect I believe. Saddam did swear that they had none, right?

Bobert: Rave on.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:49 PM

kat:

Dougie don't care if we gotta kill every last Iraqi so they can be liberated. Yeah, liberated from... ahhh, life!

Come on, Dougie, this is youn ol' buddy Bobert here. Not some bum from the corner! But me, brother. Do you really believe any of this carp that you write?

Like sanctions? Yeah, they have been a real picnic to the Iraqi people! No, they haven't. The Iraqi people have suffered greatly from the sanctions. But if Bush gets up and pumps out his lieing chest and says otherwise, you are gonna believe, ahhhh, this guy? Really? This guy? Come on! You are smarter than this, my friend. Can't you see that Bush is playing a pair of 2's? No? Well, I don't beleive you, so there! You are smarter than that! Come out from behind that big ol' *partiasn* shield and join the real world which, I might add, thinks that you guy has a serious credibility situation...

But I still love ya', even if you have a head of granite...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:21 PM

DougR, here's a report, Collateral Damage:
the health and environmental costs of war on Iraq.

Here's the most relevant paragraph:

Researched and written by health professionals, this evidence-based report examines the likely impact of a new war on Iraq from a public health perspective. Credible estimates of the total possible deaths on all sides during the conflict and the following three months range from 48,000 to over 260,000. Civil war within Iraq could add another 20,000 deaths. Additional later deaths from post-war adverse health effects could reach 200,000. If nuclear weapons were used the death toll could reach 3,900,000. In all scenarios the majority of casualties will be civilians.

There is much more to it than that. I hope you will give it a read.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:15 PM

There is an interesting article in Business Week, an interview really, of a demographer who lost her job when she "overpredicted" casualties for the last Bush war. She explains how they figure the numbers, what happened to her data and how she got her job back.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:21 PM

Rustic Rebel: who do you blame for the sanctions in Iraq? Let me guess! The US of A, right! Wrong! Try Saddam. He could have had the sanctions lifted at anytime if he had done what he agreed to do at the ceasefire in 1991!

Don: thanks for checking on that 250,000 figure. I have searched too, and I cannot find such an estimate anywhere. I can't conceive the figure will be that high.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,dennis in US
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:07 PM

I'll have to say that I think our country is behaving completely irresponsibly; that to act without U.N. approval in a situation that is not about self defense totally undermines the US and ulitimately, UN credibility.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to an anti-war song.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/549/dennis_caraher.html

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 03:49 PM

From the mouths of babes (just for you, Old Guy!)...

"El Centro de la Raza, Seattle, WA

This is a group poem, written by elementary school students at El Centro de la Raza's after school poetry class in Seattle. We are Jose Luis (age 8); Jaime (9); Antonio (7); Kristina (10); Paco (7); Rebecca (10). Our teacher is Anna Balint


Imagining How It's Going To Be

smoke
black smoke
cannot see nothing
barely nothing
crying
burning wood
smoke
planes and more planes
soldiers come in planes to attack
soldiers with guns

we're gonna fight
fight to stop the war
not sit around and let people die
we gotta fight
so people don't die

bombs
bombs dropping down on people
bombs ruining the life of people
missiles and more missiles
sad screaming angry scared
running
running for shelter
buildings falling
climbing over rubble

we're gonna fight
fight to stop the war
not sit around and let people die
we gotta fight
so people don't die

dogs and cats dead
the birds flown away
burned leaves
black grass
grass on fire
tanks
tanks are coming

we're gonna fight
fight to stop the war
not sit around and let people die
we gotta fight
so people don't die


Found it at this site. Lots more poetry there too!


daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:27 PM

Talk about humanitarian, or should I say un-humanitarian, half a million children under the age of five have now died in Iraq, in the past ten years due to sanctions.
Sanctions are being called "the silent war against Iraqi children" Countries that used to trade with Iraq are also suffering.
Jordan's Prime Minister had this to say about sanctions-"The sanctions impassed on Iraq have led to great human catastrophe of unpredictable destructive impact in the short and long terms. We call for lifting the embargo on Iraq."
UN weapons inspector Richard Butler had this to say- " sanctions as now applied to Iraq have been utterly counterproductive for the disarmament purpose."
The problem with sanctions is money and goods that get into the country are going to the elite and harming the poor. The basic needs of the civilian population are not being met. The 1949 Geneva Convention prohibits the starvation of civilian populations and the destruction of what is indispensable for their survival.

Can you all tell I've been doing my homework on sanctions? I find them deplorable. For US to say the Iraqi people tourture their own, well perhaps they are, but we as a world of people allowing sanctions to continue, are no better for creating a destruction of an entire country of human beings.

As I step down from my soapbox, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:16 PM

Tia:

"Now, please drop the silly madrasa metaphor. By repeating it, you appear to be doing precisely the rocking and chanting that you accuse others of."
I will stick with my metaphor as long as the peaceniks keep ignoring that facts.

Did you hear on the news that the military is laying out the plans of where to drop what size and type of bomb? 90% will actually be guided munitions, not bombs.

They are using a computer simulation to pick the correct size and type of bomb to drop on each military target so as not to destroy the civilian population. The bombs have an accuracy now if one meter (39"+-)

This hardly sounds like a chant to me. It sounds like good sense and compassion. Have you heard the Former Iraqis on TV today saying that the US should liberate Iraq and explaining the torture that goes on there?

It sounds like something worth watching and thinking about but the peaceniks reflexively come back with "thousands of bombs being dropped on innocent people".

You flip on the TV and you see people marching and want to be part of the crowd that goes against the leaders of the government because it seems cool so you want to be part of the crowd.

I have not heard anybody acknowledge the American revolutionary war. Perhaps the peaceniks don't want to admit that it happened, what happened and what the results were.


Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:33 AM

Thanks for the info everyone. All the best to everyone marching tomorrow for International Women's Day, especially those in the US.

Here's a funny (?) message re your friendly neighbourhood Homeland Security. Brrrrrrrrrr - browse through if you don't mind getting a little chilly!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:35 PM

Doug, unfortunately I can't recall the name of the person who made the statement, but it was on a radio talk show and the person was from the Brookings Institute (an admittedly conservative "think tank"). The liberal interviewer asked him about potential Iraqi civilian casualties, and after hedging a bit, he said that the maximum acceptable number of Iraqi civilian casualties the Pentagon expected was in the vicinity of 250,000. He used the word "acceptable." The reporter, (as I said, a liberal) had a hissy-fit and said, "You mean to say that killing a quarter of a million Iraqi civilians is an acceptable cost for liberating oppressed Iraqi citizens?" "No," was the answer, "I said two-hundred and fifty thousand! And that, we estimate, would be the maximum number of civilian casualties."

The discussion had droned on for quite a while, and since I was on overload from having heard several discussions of this type the same day, I was hardly paying attention. But what suddenly caught my notice was the apparent arithmetic disagreement over the meanings of "quarter of a million" and "two-hundred and fifty thousand." And then, the words "acceptable civilian casualties." I kinda had a hissy-fit of my own, since the main thrust of the discussion was supposed to be the humanitarian mission of freeing the Iraqi people from a tyrannical regime.

Sorry I don't have more information or a link to post. I did look up the Brookings Institute and came up with the following:

In regard to casualties, the experience of trying to forecast Desert Storm is chastening for those who believe that precise predictions are possible, but some general parameters can still be established. In particular, the United States could plausibly lose anywhere from about 100 soldiers, should the Iraqi military crumble or overthrow Saddam once American forces are perched on their border, to as many as 5,000 troops if the Republican Guard fights as hard and as effectively as its size and weaponry would plausibly allow within the urban settings of Baghdad and other Iraqi cities. In other words, while such a war would not become a quagmire under even the worst of circumstances, it could be rather bloody. Moreover, Iraqi civilian casualties could be ten times as great as U.S. losses, generating strong opposition from international public opinion, particularly in the Arab street. This is yet one more reason to make any such war quick and decisive through the use of overwhelming force.

The whole article HERE. I ran a fairly exhaustive search with google, putting in a whole variety of terms, but other than obviously slanted websites both left and right, I couldn't find anything that I would consider reliable. Obviously, precise predictions are not possible, but it is revealing to know what is regarded as "acceptable."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 03:30 PM

Rustic, thanks so much for the truthout link! Look what I found there: HOPE! From the beginning of an article on Powell telling the shrub he will lose:

Tuesday 4 March 2003

Senior aides to President George W. Bush say he faces a humiliating defeat before the United Nations Security Council next week.

    And signs emerged today that the U.S. may withdraw the resolution from security council consideration.
Secretary of State Colin Powell, fresh from his latest round of meetings with representatives of countries on the Security Council, delivered the bad news to Bush on Monday.

    "You will lose, Mr. President," Powell told Bush. "You will lose badly and the United States will be humiliated on the world stage."

    Powell told Bush he has only four of the nine votes needed for approval of a second resolution. As a result, some White House advisors are now urging the President to back off his tough stance on war with Iraq and give UN weapons inspectors more time.

    "We have no other choice," admits one.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 02:13 PM

Well, RR, you weren't too far off with your "Red List" as this was a list of folks who were *thought* to have communist leanings and Communists = reds in a lot of folks minds. There are even historical references to back up the "reds" in the Rissian Revolution (reds v. whites) and lets not forget Chairman Mao's "Red Book".

As fir demonstartions, yesterday was a day on demonstrations by students who walked out of classes all over the world in a *strike* against the war. These demonstartions occured in over 300 colleges and universities in the US as well as hundreds of public schools.

Anyone wishing to read more about the deatils of the demonstrations can go to:

www.washingtonpost.com

There are some other interesting articles in today's Post. One about China now alligning itself with Russia, France and Germany. There is also an *Analysis" which is pretty darned scarey in that the military leaders of the US, while having major reservations about the wisdom of attacking Iraq, are now just tired of all the jokeying and would just rather get it started now rather than wait.

As for the rice? Maybe we could just mail them a *rock* which would make a statement about the intellegence, or lack thereof, of Bush's foreign policy.

Dumb as a box of rocks!

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 02:09 PM

No I wasn't mistaken It happened. I just meant that I might have been mistaken for saying don't send it. Maybe people should continue the practice. I don't know.
The site I posted above should be checked out. I was just reading more about police injustice to protesters. Also an interesting article about a young man getting thrown out of a mall for wearing a 'peace on earth' t-shirt! They tried to tell him to take it off and he refused. Some of this is really hard to swallow but I have already seen police trying to deter people from rallies. A couple weeks ago they said we had to move because we had no permit. Well it turned out we didn't need a permit and had as much right on the sidewalk as any ped. so it was a personal thing with this officer. (Now he knows).
Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 02:02 PM

I'll be marching with you, Jenny and Rustic, in spirit if not in body.    And Rustic, I really do hope you were mistaken about the Rice for Peace thing!

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 01:53 PM

In my post above I talked about the 'red list' I think I was wrong. I was just cruising a site that talked about 'black listing' artists that speak out about the war. So was it called a black list? Yes I think so. I was directed to this site via my peace action group. It was an article about CIA people taking refuge in Sweden and speaking out against the Bush admin. Sweden has opened it's doors to 28 CIA people, who couldn't handle being silenced anymore. Here is a good site; truth out
One more thing I read yesterday was about Harry Belefonte speaking out about Bush. He said the Bush admin. is possessed by evil! Watch out Harry- you'll be 'black-listed' as well!
Peace. Rustic (women march on, on March 8th!)

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:41 PM

The schoolkids marched here in Sydney, too. Of course we got the usual complaints that they were being used by communist organisations, and that they would have had a better understanding of the situation by spending the day at school....yeah, right!

I'll be marching on Saturday in the International Women's Day march - Women against the War.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 11:33 AM

Rustic, the idea of being put on a gov't terrorist list for peacefully expressing anti-war sentiments is chilling and disgusting. Big Brother REALLY IS here. I only wish the very best for all of you south of the border - seems like you're sure going to need it. Thanks for posting this story - it's a wake-up call for everyone IMO.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

You know I got to thinking this morning that maybe I jumped too fast in saying don't send rice. Perhaps now is the time to send more? I was never really for the idea and I probably still won't but at least it means peace activists are getting noticed. Getting put on the terror list reminds me of the 'red list' in the fifties.(? about year)
It is worth considering anyway. Maybe publicizing the action was a ploy to deter protesters of this type.

Our small group of protesters last Sat. made our front page paper yesterday! This is a good thing. Hopefully it will bring more out this weekend. It was our first rally in our small town. We had police sit and watch us for half an hour then they figured we were alright. They said we couldn't have any signs that said 'honk for peace' or do anything to divert traffic. We have a no lottering law in town so we were leary at first, but now we have a civil liberties rep. coming to challange this law. Finally!

Peace. (The world can only unite by loving, not by hating)Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM

Don't forget folks. March 15th. D.C.... At the grounds of the Washington Monuement. Anyone coming and needing a place to crash, PM me.

OG: I believe tha while you have a perfect right to post anywhere you like, that if you'll reread the name of this thread you may discover that you are not bringing any level of positive contribution to the intent of the thread. There are plenty of other threads around for your views. This thread was originated with the purpose of sharing information about "actions to *promote* peace". Dropping bombs, I think most of us would agree, is is not a peacefull means of solving conflict.

You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb the world to peace.

Don't forget, folks, March 15th.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 09:19 AM

Smoke pot an drink beer what else is there beer makes me happy and pot used to make me mellow add the two together and what do you get
Happy stoners sleeping= no fighting.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:36 AM

The schoolkids of Ireland and Britain were on all of the TV News broadcasts, protesting against the coming slaughter. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: TIA
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:10 AM

DougR:

Yesterday's paper quoted an anonymous DoD spokesperson as estimating less than 3,000 Iraqi civilian casualties, but picking a number a-priori is really just a crap shoot - could be way lower, could be way higher. We will only know once the fun begins. Then we can all keep track by following the Iraq Body Count ticker which is

here

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bagpuss
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM

The reason Jackie Straw got freaked out by the rice? He was handed the envelope and said "What's this?". The reply was "It's got rice in".....

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 02:09 AM

Don: I have not seen that estimate of civilian casualties by the Defense Department before. Would you be good enough to provide a link to confirm the 250,000 figure? I'd appreciate it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 05:09 PM

I was pleased to read at www.drudge.com that tens of thousands of students throughout the US and other countries skipped classes, yesterday, in a "Books not bombs" protest against going to war with Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM

Rustic Rebel, this is a good place to have posted that. Thank you, very much! My sisters had just heard about the rice thing and their church group was planning to do so.

TIA, thanks for the link. Don Firth, thanks for your comment.

OG - cite your claims, esp. the ones which are supposedly direct.

Also, the American Revolution did not bring peace, no war has ever brought peace. It was the beginning of "official" government conflicts, unrest and further wars throughout our country from then on. There has also been such throughout the world because of the worn-out patriarchal, Picean age beliefs in wiedling the bigger club instead of using more civilised means of getting to know one's supposed enemies and learning to get along in a more humane way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: TIA
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 04:09 PM

Old Guy:

The answers to some of your questions are
here

Summary: the DoD intends to drop 10 times the number of bombs that were dropped in 1991. But, Defense Intelligence Agency says that with improved guidance, fewer civilians will be killed.

Now, please drop the silly madrasa metaphor. By repeating it, you appear to be doing precisely the rocking and chanting that you accuse others of.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:51 PM

Sorry folks- I don't quite know where to put this so I'm drifting a moment***
Remember the thread where I think it was Thomas the Rhymer had started about sending rice to the white house? Well it seems that that is positively not the thing to do to promote peace. Yesterday it came out that a peace activist was put on the terrorist alert list for sending rice to the office of Jack Straw. It closed down his office for threee hours and sent the police to the home of the sender. They said it was lucky for him that he had sent a 'nice card' with the package, otherwise the terrorist police would have been knocking on his door. They also said many people are now on the terror alert list for sending rice!
Don't send rice!!!
Please resume***

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:43 PM

katlaughing:

"You do not create peace with violence."

Ever heard of the American Revoultionary War?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:30 PM

The Defense Department has determined that 250,000 Iraqi civilian deaths is an acceptable figure. Tell me all about compassion.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:10 PM

There you go with the brainwashing again: "thousands of bombs being dropped on innocent people" and "Millions of innocent people being killed"

Do you sit and rock back and forth like the students in a madrassa while chanting this? Where do the numbers come from? what types of bombs and how will they be targeted?

If you take the time to research this you will see that it is propaganda.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:36 PM

Compassion for the Iraqi people will involve NOT going to war and killing millions of them with indiscriminate bombs. You do not create peace with violence.

This certainly has drifted from the original intent of this thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:33 PM

Try showing some compassion for the citizens of Iraq:

"Men belonging to Feda'iyye Saddam came to the house in al-Karrada district and found his wife, children and his mother. Um Haydar was taken to the street and two men held her by the arms and a third pulled her head from behind and beheaded her in front of the residents. The beheading was also witnessed by members of the Ba'ath Party in the area. The security men took the body and the head in a plastic bag, and took away the children and the mother-in-law. "

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:23 PM

Old Guy, I don't think that brainwashing is a requirement for promoting peace. All that's required is compassion, courage and common sense.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 01:08 PM

Attention peacenicks and French sympathizers.

You have a lot of brainwashing to do over there:

ABIDJAN, Ivory Coast Feb. 1 —

Tens of thousands of people marched through Ivory Coast's main city Saturday calling for the death of the French president, in the biggest demonstration yet against the West African nation's French-brokered peace accord.

"Chirac is dead! Ivory Coast is free!" marchers chanted, referring to French President Jacques Chirac. One protester dragged an iron tub filled with palm leaves that he said represented "all the baggage the French will take as they leave Ivory Coast."

Some greeted a carload of Westerners with pro-American slogans. Others carried American flags and signs saying: "Please help us, Bush" and "France Bye Bye, In U.S.A. We Trust."

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: TIA
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:38 PM

I'm being a bit of a jerk to put his in two threads, but after I posted in the first one, I spotted this thread where it is more appropriate. If the powers that be want to wax it from the other thread, please do so with my blessing. Thanks.

Just got this from my mother. Use it if you wish. Ignore it if you wish.


"Bruce Andrews, retired professor of political science sent Dan and me these
e-mail addresses with a request to e-mail these delegations at the UN
requesting that they do everything they can to stop the war. A political
scientist friend of his sent Bruce the addresses with this note: "I just
spoke with France's UN office. The are BEGGING us to flood their offices and
the other UN offices with emails to STOP the WAR. France needs to know that many
Americans are with them on this. Please forward this to everyone you can.
The UN email addresses are listed below for the Security Council."

[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail],
[e-mail];
[e-mail],
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Thanks for considering this, Mom"

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:32 PM

I heard on the tube tonight about a peacemonger who went to Iraq and returned real soon as a warmonager. It seems they found out about a woman who had her son crucified in front of her.

Do they have something worse in Texas? Maybe they just send them across the border.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:45 PM

Old Guy:

Hey, while you do provide some level of *entertainment* with your postings, I'd just like to point out that GUEST, A**hole, may be giving up his handle incase yopu're lookin' for a new one.

Awww, jus' funnin'.

But speakin' of your list above, have you spent any time researching the criminal justice system in Texas? Makes Irak seem like the *land of paradise*.

Hey, Doug:

Didn't mean to leave you out of this one. Waht are you doing messing with OG? He's like on your team? I don't get it!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,OldGuy
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 09:36 PM

I was in a hurry so I pasted these here as a reminder to the people trying to foul up the goverment's actions to prevent the torture suffered by the citizens of Iraq.

Looks like it killed the thread because the anti-wat protestors don't want to face these facts.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 02:55 AM

Old Guy: so what's your point?

DougR