BS: Actions to promote peace

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Oldguy
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:28 PM

Torture Methods in Iraq

    * Medical experimentation
    * Beatings
    * Crucifixion
    * Hammering nails into the fingers and hands
    * Amputating the penis or breasts with an electric carving knife
    * Spraying insecticides into a victim's eyes
    * Branding with a hot iron
    * Committing rape while the victim's spouse is forced to watch
    * Pouring boiling water into a rectum
    * Nailing the tongue to a wooden board
    * Extracting teeth with pliers
    * Using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their parents

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 12:52 PM

And for all you Canucks concerned about peace and human rights, here's the rather extensive (!!) schedule of Canadian peace rallies, vigils, concerts and lectures for March 2003, furnished by the
Canadian Peace Alliance.

If anyone decides to attend a Toronto event, please PM me if you'd like to meet up.

Thanks - daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:55 AM

The link above tested fine when I made it, but it's pulling an 'error' page now (??). So try this one instead. Sorry about that .... daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: *daylia*
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:16 AM

Here's some information about the peace rallies planned for International Women's Day (March 8) in Washington DC and elsewhere.

These are non-violent protests however, so I guess Usefull Idiot will have to put plans for public lynching on hold for that day at least!

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Usefulidiot
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:01 AM

I think we should drag the corrupt administration out into the streets on March i5th and hang them right then and there.

No trial no report to file. Screw the Constitution. We will teach them how evil it is to use voilence to promote peace.

Usefull Idiot

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 10:42 PM

For those Catfolk who are against the US invasion of Iraq, there will be a massive demonstration in D.C on March 15th. Anyone coming to D.C. and needing lodging, contack me thru a PM.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: JennyO
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:01 PM

Excellent, Bobert. It's all happening, isn't it.

I wonder if anything like that is happening in Oz? There certainly is a lot of anti-war sentiment here!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:06 PM

Well, this is really cool. What do Oak Park, Michiga,, Shaker Heights, Ohio, Baltimore, Maryland, Chicaog, Illinois and Des Moines, Iowa have in common?

Give up?

Well, they, and another 70 cities and towns have passed anti-war resolutions telling the BUsh administration, "Not in our name".

And while were at it. The Maine Sate Sebate passed a similar resolution as did the Hawii House of Representatives.

And resolutions are cropping up in town councils all over America! This is so heartening in a time when there is so much press given to the drum beaters.

Good on these 70 cities and townships and looking forward to that number growing as Americans slowly figure out that Bush is nothing but a warmonger. Pure and simple.

He has done *zero* to promote peace. Zero!

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 07:59 PM

Like I should have said: Friend of Heather, good for you and keep the faith.

Did I get it right this time, kat?

If not you just rewrite it and sign my name to it. I trust you.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 07:22 PM

Just to clarify: Heather did not post the above. I received it from another Mudcatter who had received it directly from Heather, who is a friend of theirs. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 07:16 PM

First of al, my friend, the "war tent" is down the street. Unless you were speaking tongue-in-cheek if one can just belive the polls that have been taken showing the percentage of folks who are against the war, if all these folks were to strike their employers and a couple well chosen corporations, Bush's plans would go right down the drain.

When one considers how long it took to mobilize resistence against the Vietnam War, what we are seeing is an absolute ground swell.

Heather: Good for you. I know it was tough on the legs. My 17 years old son was sore for a couple days afterwards.But keep the faith and kep posting to this thread as youmlearn of other demonstartions. The media is ignoring the heck out of us so we can't assume that everyone knows what's coming up.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Alfred Krupp
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 06:20 PM

I've a novel approach to this - say next day all those in favour of an aggresive war against Saddam are to go about their normal business, no protest, no infantile demonstrations, just let the Oil Corporations and the White House and Congress slaves get on with it.

Gee, thats fine, 99.8% conformity, and without any coordination or publicity.

I can say that the People of the World back this attempt to enforce American Standards of Justice and Legality.

Hey will somebody take out those flying pigs !

Alf Krupp - The Ruhr.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 05:57 PM

An estimated 350 people in Juneau, Alaska, gathered and marched; there was precious little promotion beforehand. This is in a community of 30,000 so little more than 1% showed up. But hey, it's a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Nov 02 - 05:32 PM

Thanks, Don, that's great!

I received this by email, today, from anudder Mudder who received it from the woman who wrote it. A woman whom they know and respect. She wrote this after being at the march in D.C. My Mudder friend saw her on Sunday and said the marcher was "particularly impressed with not only the numbers of people there, but people from all walks of life-- farmers, college students, young and old, people who were well off and people who were not, and so on."

Anyway, here it is. Please note: I do not totally agree with her on some points, but I do find her points valid and of interest. I hope you will, too. Thanks, kat!:
*********************************************************************

My Blessed Family and Friends, those I know and those I have not yet met,


I am not writing here as a member of any particular peace-seeking
organization or faction, but merely as a concerned citizen... Please receive this message in love and peace, and an eternal trust that we will make a difference!

I was silent... I was inactive... for far too long. The absence of my
voice ringing in my leaders' ears has been perceived as my support for actions against humans both here in the U.S. and abroad.

In the past, when I had opportunities to attend rallies or marches, to write my congress-person, to channel grassroots information from one person to many others, I used to think, "I'm just one person. If I don't speak out or act up, it won't make that much of a difference."

That is, until this past weekend, when I was blessed with the opportunity to attend the Anti-War rally and march in Washington, DC. I see now how important my one voice, my one body is to raising the consciousness of our leaders. Despite a throbbing in my lower back and aching feet, I looked around me at one point during the march and considered, "what if at least half of us had listened to the doubting voice I sometimes hear in my own head, and remained silent, remained absent?"

And, I thought about the rallies and marches that have changed the course of humankind all over this world: the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s, an end to apartheid in South Africa, the end of British rule in India, the Abolition Movement, the Suffrage Movement.... What if the millions of people who spoke out, acted up in the countless events surrounding these movements simply hadn't shown up?

And I knew right then: I will remain silent no longer. I will remain
still no longer. I will no longer mutely support the abuses of my global brothers and sisters to merely line the pockets of a few. It is only US that will change the U.S. We are the only ones who can. We are the only ones who will: Blessed be the PeaceMakers, for they shall be called the Children of God.

So hear my voice, watch my hands and feet: I want to share a few reasons why I will not support a war against Iraq. (Title items in bold are slogans from the rally and march.)

1. Real Eyes Realize Real Lies: Let's be honest: the true reason for waging an act of violence and aggression against Iraq is not because we fear what they may possibly do in the future: if this is the case, we should let the UN inspectors do their job and seek a peace-full resolution for the transgressions the U.S. has already committed in that region of the world. The true reason for waging a war against Iraq is for the United States to secure control over the majority of the world's oil reserves.

2. Who Will Die? Who Will Profit?: The U.S. citizens who will be
walking under the beating Arabian sun, getting sand in their shoes and up their noses, and pointing weapons toward the "enemy" will not be Jenna or Barb Bush or any of the children or grandchildren of the members of congress who support this war. Instead, it will be the sons and daughters of low-income families who cannot afford to send their children to college, and whose only option out of the cycle of poverty is to enter the military. (A cycle, by the way, perpetuated by the ruling classes and the eternal silence of the masses.) In short, the majority of those who will be going to fight and die in a Euro-American, upper-class oilman's war will be African-American, lower-class soldiers.

3. No Blood For Oil: When this war is over, the gas I pump into my tank and pay $1.39 per gallon will be a mix of high octane and human blood: the blood of my fellow US citizens who were seeking a way to a better life and the blood of innocent Iraqi women and children who have done nothing to me. I would rather walk, ride a bike, ride the bus, or simply stay at home than to have to "buy" into such a lifestyle.

4. Money For Jobs, Not War: Finally, the conservative estimate of the
cost of this war is $200,000,000,000... Two Hundred Billion Dollars! Instead of spending this money to advance the values of greed and envy of a few, we should be putting this money toward education, housing, healthcare, the creation of jobs, childcare, the elderly, and to advance the basic needs of a majority of our population who have been marginalized, ignored, and left to fend for themselves under the repression of a so-called "free-enterprise" system.

So, what can WE do?? Well, if you feel that a peace-full solution
should be found, that a war against Iraq is immoral and unwarranted, here are some action items:

1. Vote No To War: Go to www.votenowar.org. In the middle of the page, click where it says "I Vote No To War". Fill out as much information as you wish, and submit your vote. The tally will be released to the world during the Peace Congress to be
held in Washington over the 2003 Martin Luther King Weekend Celebration.

2. Buy Consciously: here is a list of U.S. oil companies that do NOT import Middle Eastern oil. The original email with this
info was sent with the intention of giving people the option of not supporting Arabian oil profiteers. However, I use this list here to show companies, I am guessing, have no direct interest in a war against Iraq:

    Citgo

    Sunoco

    Conoco

    Sinclair

    BP/Philips

    Hess

All the big gas guys (Texaco, Exxon, Shell, Amoco) DO buy their oil from the Middle East, and thereby stand to profit from other's deaths.

3. Drop Bush Not Bombs: VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! Whether it's this coming
Tuesday, Nov. 5th, or in 2 years when we will elect a new President, learn about the candidates and make your voice heard in the booth.

4. Pass It On: As you are willing, forward this message to everyone
you know... spread the word, spread the word, spread the word!!

Please remember: You and I are writing the history of tomorrow! No
matter how small or ineffective we may feel at times, we are SO VERY IMPORTANT to changing our world!!

Thank you for your time and being present in my life!!

In God's Love and Peace,

Heather, the marginal woman

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 03:01 PM

Nobody seems to be able to agree on how many people attended yesterday's anti-war protest in Seattle. Seattle Times report here. The Seattle Post-Intelligencer here gave the whole thing rather short shrift. However, the P-I has been running the following series.

I'll see if I can get some info from someone who was there.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 09:49 AM

Stephen, it is a good organisation. I started doing op/ed pieces about them several years ago and have spoken to its founders. It really is comprised of thousands of people all over the nation, from all walks of life, all incomes, etc. who first got together, electronically, to send a message to Congress to cease and desist Kenneth Starr inquisition of Clinton. It costs nothing to be a member and all members vote on which issues to work on. Those members then carried on in 3D life, too, taking petitions, etc. right into the congresspeople's offices, meeting with etc. They are still doing this for the other issues.

We've had some other discussions about it, but I don't think they've been indexed for the search, yet. I do know of several prominent Mudcatters who are members and do volunteer lobbying/campaiging as members.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 08:37 AM

Estimated 10,000 in St. Paul. I can tell you, that is a huge number for here--estimated as the largest anti-war rally since the Vietnam era. But it is being spun by the media as a "tribute to Wellstone". That way, they don't have to do their job and cover it as what it really is--a huge opposition to the current administration's policy of using the war on terrorism as an excuse to engage in unilateral military adventurism.

There were many Wellstone campaign signs present, but it wasn't a tribute to Wellstone. It was most definitely an anti-war rally with all the trimmings.

Let us not forget, over a million Iraqis have already died as a result of the Gulf War and the sanctions of the past 12 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 08:36 AM

Well, Stepen, I've been running up on this site over and over and I'm sure that some GUEST will jump in and say it's bogus, and I'm not sure it is or isn't. Being a Greenie, it's tough for me to be supportive of Democratic Party nominees. But then, on the the other hand, there is the distinct possibility of Bush getting the Senate he wants which will mean the working class is gonna get screwed. But then again, there is a part of me that wants Junior to have unfettered access to his agenda which I feel will expose his party as a bunch of mean-spirited redneck corporate rich folks who don't even stop to give lip service to the working class and can't blame Bill Clinton for their screw-ups.

I don't think maintaining Dem. control of the Senate will have any bearing on Juniors blood thirst as the Dems seem to falling over themselves top show how ready they are for their piece of Iraqi flesh.

Yeah, I really didn'd answer you question, Stephen, but I did give you a glimpse of my thoughts...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 04:31 AM

I just recieved an e-mail from the organization linked below.
I'm not sure what to make of it. I'd love to hear other opinions on it.

Stephen Lee

moveon.org

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 27 Oct 02 - 03:37 AM

Kat and Bobert -- That's ecouraging news. It's good to know that one is not alone. It's also good to know that anti-war protest isn't just a Boomer relic -- that younger people are taking part.You've obviously raised the boy right, Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 02 - 10:46 PM

Upwards of 200,000 in D.C. today to speak out against Bush's war. I was not able to be at this one but my 17 year old son Ben, bless his peace loving heart and his mother went. This was one heck of a showing considering the bad press with the Washington Post coming out on Wednesday suggesting that the ralley was being organized by anti Zionists. I mean, where do they come up with this utter crap?

What were the numbers in your neighborhood?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 06:30 PM

Thanks, Stephen. I should have scrolled down and looked before I changed them in Bobert's post!:-)

Here's the article:

Anti-War Protests Get Louder In Calif.

_____OnPolitics_____

• Today's Political News
• Elections 2002 Coverage
• Daily E-mail Updates



_____The Iraq Debate_____

• A comprehensive guide to The Debate About Iraq with contributions from Jimmy Carter, George Shultz, Sen. Zell Miller, Charles Krauthammer, Richard Holbrooke, Michael Kelly, Gen. Wesley Clark and many others.



_____Primer_____

• Iraq and the War on Terrorism



_____News From Iraq_____

• Osama, Saddam and Max? Cleland Cries Foul (The Washington Post, Oct 14, 2002)
• U.N. Pressed for Tough Stance on Iraq (The Washington Post, Oct 14, 2002)
• The Case With No Easy Answers (The Washington Post, Oct 14, 2002)
• More News from Iraq



   
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By Evelyn Nieves
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, October 14, 2002; Page A01


SAN FRANCISCO, Oct. 13 -- In all the years he has spent on street corners, talking himself hoarse trying to convince the world that war is hell, Jeff Grubler has never been so popular.

Life has become one big anti-war rally. Last Wednesday, Grubler, a volunteer with the American Friends Service Committee, agreed to lead a rally of 200 students at the University of California, Berkeley. On Thursday, he joined 200 people on a march to the Federal Building here to protest the congressional resolution authorizing President Bush to attack Iraq. On Saturday, Grubler spent a good part of the day sifting through a mountain of e-mails about upcoming anti-war events. Today, he led a teach-in at Stanford University.

The prospects of a U.S. war on Iraq have prompted so many teach-ins, protests, marches and forums that he can't keep up. "In the Bay Area," said Grubler, a 34-year-old bartender who began working for the Service Committee about five years ago, "there are literally multiple events every day."

In the Bay Area, bastion of the most liberal Democrats in the country, speaking out against unilateral action on Iraq is like preaching the dangers of binge drinking at an Alcoholics Anonymous convention. Anti-war rallies on two consecutive weekends drew 10,000 people each, and hastily called protests draw several hundred. Unlike the rest of the country -- or even the rest of California -- activists here can boast that most of their elected representatives (10 of 13) heeded their thousands of phone calls and voted against the resolution on Iraq.

But the Bay Area is not, as some pundits would have it, "out there" alone.

It is simply the most obvious place, veteran peace organizers say, to see a burgeoning national anti-war movement that is gaining momentum by the day.

Peace groups believe they can still avert a war by convincing politicians that the majority of Americans oppose unilateral action against Iraq.

Most Americans -- about 61 percent, according to a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll -- support using force to remove Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, but anti-war activists contend that is true only when people are asked the question in the broadest terms. When voters in the Post-ABC poll were asked whether the United States should launch an attack over the opposition of its allies, for example, support dropped to 46 percent.

Most polls find that a majority of Americans believe the United Nations should be allowed to try diplomacy first.

Approval of the resolution on Iraq, though disheartening to groups that spent weeks organizing citizens to inundate members of Congress with thousands of phone calls and e-mails registering opposition to a war, was expected, peace organizers say. (Even before the final vote, anti-war groups planned national protests on Oct. 26 in San Francisco and the District, hoping for at least 100,000 participants.) In fact, the resolution has increased the anti-war effort, organizers say. Some say politicians who ignored the will of their constituents and voted to approve the resolution will face repercussions, such as more protests and sit-ins at their offices -- and possible retribution in the next election. But the greater effort will be in convincing Congress and the president that war is not the way to go, said Mary Lord, director of the national peace-building unit for the American Friends Service Committee.

"I think that the Democratic leadership made a mistake in thinking that voting for the war would get them off the headlines," Lord said. "Now there's going to be accelerated troop deployment. This issue is not going to go away."

The latest Pew Research Center survey, taken early this month, found that 88 percent of Americans are following the Iraq debate very or fairly closely.

No one can say what will happen to the peace movement if Bush does launch strikes on Iraq and the nation is plunged into a sustained war. But time-tested organizations such as the Service Committee, which is run by the nation's oldest pacifist institution, the Quakers, as well as groups that have sprung up in response to the threat of a U.S. invasion, talk in elated terms about how overwhelmed they are with the sheer number of people who want to join their effort, as well as the multiplying number of anti-war activities. They talk of a rising tide of student activism, of protesting by people who have never protested before and of an engagement on the issue that was absent prior to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

The Institute for Policy Studies, a liberal Washington think tank, had compiled a list of more than 250 anti-war events planned throughout the country over the next two weeks, only to discover it had missed at least 150 others. "People are organizing at all levels," said Amy Quinn, co-director of the institute. "I'm hearing from the older generations that there was nowhere near this level of activism at this stage in the Vietnam War. I'm not surprised that people are coming out against the war. I am surprised at how organized and vocal people are."

Global Exchange, the San Francisco-based human rights organization that has been leading many of the anti-war efforts, created a Web site, www.unitedforpeace.org, just before Sept. 11 so that peace organizations could list their events. In the past month, as Bush began increasing his arguments to wage a war on Iraq, the list of anti-war events "in every state" has been growing by the day, said Andrea Buffa, a Global Exchange organizer. "Teach-ins, sit-ins, rallies, you name it -- I think that the nation is seeing a growing peace movement the likes of which we have not seen in a long time."

Not In Our Name, an anti-war group based in New York, has been receiving more than 25,000 hits and more than 1,000 e-mails a day from all over the world on its Web site, www.notinourname.org, said Miles Solay, an organizer with the Refuse and Resist Project, an arm of the organization. A call from Not In Our Name for national rallies on Oct. 6 led to more than 40 rallies involving more than 85,000 people, he said. Although those rallies had hoped to affect the outcome of the congressional resolution, Solay said, many more activities are planned. Not In Our Name is organizing the Oct. 26 rallies and others. "There will be lots of response to the no-surprise resolution," he said. "On the day the bombing begins, there will be organized protests across the country. There's a new student movement growing all over the country. Thousands of youth are organizing and getting involved. . . . We are coming together."

The American Friends Service Committee has launched an ambitious effort, organizing war protests by faith groups as well as student teach-ins, coalitions among anti-war organizations big and small, and citizen involvement in campaigns where candidates have expressed support for a U.S. attack, Lord said. "We'll be encouraging people to go to candidate meetings and campaign forums to tell them that this is not the way to get elected."

That also will mean more calls to more politicians, as well as more protests directed at political leaders. Alpesh Patel, who has been leading protests at the San Mateo, Calif., office of Rep. Tom Lantos, one of the first local Democrats to support the resolution on Iraq, said he has found that there is almost unanimous opposition to war in the district. "With the vote done, we are not done one bit," he said. "We will be back in front of Lantos's office. We want to make it abundantly clear that everybody in this district who speaks for anybody is opposed to Lantos's war."

Bill Ramsey, a coordinator for the Human Rights Action Service in St. Louis, who has been leading sit-ins at the district office of House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) and the state Democratic Party headquarters, said those protests will continue and multiply. "There are hundreds of people here engaging in action they are initiating themselves," he said. "The kinds of responses we're getting are astounding us."

In San Francisco, groups are planning sit-ins at Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office to protest her vote for the resolution after the California Democrat expressed opposition to it a few weeks ago. Efforts to persuade her to oppose the resolution failed despite 11,000 calls that her office logged in the week before the vote, with only 150 of those calls supporting the resolution.

Even House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who opposed the resolution (after receiving 12,000 calls from constituents in three weeks, with only 20 of those supporting the resolution), is getting calls complaining about Feinstein's vote. Brendan Daley, Pelosi's press secretary, said her office had received a few hundred angry calls regarding Feinstein's vote Friday morning.

Grubler, who had expected the resolution to pass, said he would probably participate in a few sit-ins in the next few weeks. He specializes in dressing up and performing skits, which explained why he was wearing orange coveralls, a hard hat and rubber boots last Thursday -- his weapons inspector outfit -- as he walked through downtown San Francisco to meet members of the Service Committee at a weekly peace vigil. He was hoping to squeeze in some street theater, but as usual these days, he had no time. "I am sleep-deprived," he said, sighing at the current state of affairs for peace activists.



© 2002 The Washington Post Company

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 06:15 PM

Here are both site as blue clickies.

Click Here


Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 01:38 PM

Okay, folks, October 26th is gonna be the biggie and a solid showing will go a long way to shutting down or slowing down Bush's "War Machine".

There will be demonstartions all around the US and in many other countries. It's time to stand up and be counted.

Hopefully Kat will follow this post and get these two web sited converted to blue clickies but here's where you can go to find out the nearest demonstration to you:

www.unitedforpeace.org

www.notinourname.org

Hey, just 'cause Congress doesn't have the balls to stand up and be counted doesn't mean that the voters can't. Bush's war is not a done deal. Just think how little resistence there was in 1963. None. And look how far we've come in such a short time with Bush's Iraq-Nam.

Also, Kat, if you can do a blue clicky thing for an article in this morning's Wsahington Post entitled "Anti-War Protests Get Louder in Calif.", I'd appreciate it. The "Post" I will point out barely covered the 10,000 to 15,000 of us two weeks ago, but, hey, they blow hot and cold...

Peace thru Resistence

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 08:56 AM

Stephen:

Good for you guys. Hang in there. Hey, if you need an upper, check out the vote for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. We're way ahead. And we'll get stronger. The battle line has now been firmly drawn.

Just be mindfull that unlike the 60's the media is now, more than ever, on the other side of that line.

Peace thru Resistence.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 11:59 PM

I hate to put a damper on the entusiasm, but our actions may not always be as effective as we might like.

For the past three days anti-war demonstrators have held a sit-in in front of the offices of Wisconsin's senior senator, Herb Kohl. Despite tis sen.Kohl has decided to vote for the president's resolution. In the face of such setbacks we must not lose our resolve.
We keep working. We continue the struggle. We try new tactics and new approaches.

Stephen L. Rich

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 12:22 AM

yer welcome, troll....nice ta see ya round here some more

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 11:22 PM

Sorry, troll...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Troll
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 10:50 PM

Thanks, kat.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Bobert
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 03:33 PM

Sorry, Kat... (Bad Bobert, bad...)

Though being a Greenie, Don, anyone who has the courage to stand up to Bush's *war machine* and risk being called a demon or unpatriotic by Bush's *war machine* PR campaign has just won my respect.

Yeah, get 'em on the ticket and I'll tell Ralph I'm gonna have to break ranks just this one time...

If more Dems had that courage then the Democratic Partyn wouldn't be in the mess it's in...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 03:13 PM

Bobert, just a reminder, Member Troll, who signs with a lower case "t"roll, is a well-respected member and should not be confused with the nefarious types who dip their bait using a Guest moniker of some kind.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 02:48 PM

TV news coverage was pretty sparse for last night's candlelight march and vigil in Seattle, which is disappointing but not surprising. The emphasis of the local 11:00 news was on a rather brutal murder and the subsequent capture of six suspects—"if it bleeds, it leads." They gave the peace march about three minutes, showing the inside of the First Methodist Church (wall to wall people), a shot of the streets (wall to wall people stretching for many blocks) and very brief interviews with a couple of marchers. They estimated "a few thousand people."

". . . and now for the latest in sports. . . ."

The newspapers did a bit better, though. Here are the stories in the Seattle Times and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.   

There was a march and demonstration last Sunday, from Volunteer Park (a couple blocks north of where I live) to the Westlake Center in downtown Seattle. About 5,000 people gathered that time. Things are just getting tuned up around here. This run-down in The Seattle Weekly from a week or so ago gives a fair notion of a few of the activities coming up.

One of my senators, Patty Murray, delivered a very strong speech during the Senatorial debates last night. She laid it out there point by point, and didn't mince any words. The Congressional Representative from my district, Jim McDermott, has also been very outspoken, engendering the irritation of the Bush Administration a couple of times by having the audacity to go and see for himself, then speaking his mind. I'm still waiting to see what my other senator, Maria Cantwell, is going to do.

I'm pretty proud of Patty Murray and Jim McDemott. Hey! That sounds like a great ticket for 2004!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 10:01 PM

Amos, Amos, Amos...

Hey, brother, this is the peace tent. Gotta ignore the trolls. Yeah, I know, I mighta' got sucked in once or twice my ownself but really, lets try to keep this thread about the resistence movement.

I know it's not as fun as battlin' with knuckleheads but, hey, its nice to have a peace tent where we can keep up with what's going on. Eventually the trolls will learn to just stay out.

So what's next on the left coast...

We have a rally this weekend at the Capitol which I will not be able to get to but then on the 26th, I'll be back at it in D.C. and I hope that the arbitrary pre-emptive arrests of weekend before last will not be repeated... But if they are, hey, I haven't been arrested protesting stupid foriegn policy since 1969, so it will be like deja vu.

Peace (or anit-war) thru resistence.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 06:15 PM

Trol:

I can't speak for who is led by which discorporate entity, but I can tell you that the urban warfare scenario is considered likely by ligh level analysts as distinguished from a rerun of an open desert line-of-battle scenario. It would make sense that they would not try that approach after Desert Storm, and given the relative strengths of their air and land forces.

But no matter how you cut it, the bottom line is the decision is going to result in some folks being awarded body bags.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 05:57 PM

Don: Thanks for your report. The media is either ignoring the resistence movement or outright lieing about the numbers. On last Sunday's rally there were at l;east 10,000 (5 entire blocks, side walk to sidewalk) and the Washington Post buried the rally in t single paragraph and said there were only 1000 peolpe. Hmmmmmm?

Same old crap...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 10:43 PM

That's great, Don, thanks!

Bobert, glad to hear the D.C. stuff is still going strong.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 10:38 PM

Well, shucks, kat. It looks like this thread has really gone to hell.

But back to your original intent, I just wanted to mention for those in the Seattle area who might care to participate, tomorrow evening (Wednesday, Oct. 9th) at 7:00 p.m. there will be a gathering at the First Methodist Church in downtown Seattle. From there, people will march up to St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral on Capitol Hill. I have no idea how many people might be there, but I know that a large number of local churches will be represented. At the beginning of the Gulf War, there was a similar candlelight march that consisted of somewhere between 30,000 and 60,000 people, depending on whose estimate anybody wanted to believe (even the minimum estimate, 30,000, ain't to be sneezed at!). It was quiet, it was peaceful, and it was a powerful statement.

Local press covered it, but it was pretty much ignored by the national media. Just to make sure the word gets out, I'll post a report when the march is over.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 07:59 PM

Kat:

Right on, girl.

I've been sending my emails on a regular basis. BTW, anyone who can make it to D.C. on the 26th, we need ya'.

Yep, all legal, permits and all. Hey, it would be nice to see at least 30,000 which is just 260,000 shy of the Moritorium but we gotta start somewhere...

If ya need a place to crash, PM me...

Peace thru resistence...

Email you congressfold today...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 07:13 PM

These three days are crucial as Congress debates the resolution giving the president what he wants for going to war on Iraq. The following is not my best effort, but FWIW, I just emailed it to my senator and representatives. Please contact your congresspeople and let them know how you feel. Thanks, kat

Dear Sir,

According to a text version of President Bush's speech last night, he wants the world to know "that America speaks with one voice and is determined to make the demands of the civilized world mean something."

I would like you to know, America does NOT speak with one voice on this issue. There are MANY of us who do not want this so-called war. It is, in my opinion, a War of Obfuscation, something to keep the American peoples occupied and unfocussed on much of what is going on in our own country which should be addressed immediately.

I also do not like the fact that the resolution which is now being considered would allow the president 48 hours to "notify Congress" AFTER commencement of military action, and then only to inform them as to "why diplomatic efforts were inadequate."

There should be no war on Iraq, especially without the backing of the UN and our allies. Your vote will be watched and remembered the next time you are up for re-election.

(Please do NOT respond by mail. I prefer to save some trees and franking costs. My email address is provided. Thank you.)

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 11:09 AM

Well, good, Doug, looks like we have a clean slate to muck up once again. With that said, since this is a thread on the peace movement, there will be a large demonstration in Washington, D.C. on October 26th.

I hope that the "Ramsey Plan" will not scare too many folks away and just want to remind anyone who is coming to keep non-violence as the key toward being heard.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM

Bobert: One thing for sure. Those of you who share your POV should give daily thanks to the Mudcat. Here just about any POV can be expressed without censorship. I think that says a lot for Max, Joe, Penne, and anyone else who is responsible for administering the "Cat."

I think you are right about the majority point of view at the moment. I do believe that there are more people, at the moment, that share my POV in the general population. On the Mudcat, your POV is obviously the most popular with the majority of Mudcatters.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 12:47 PM

Sorry, Dougie, didn't mean to slight ya.

My wife was waiting to use the pudder. Lousy excuse but its a true one.

Well, we've had the "liberal" conversation before and you understand that to me its folks like you who *are* the "liberals" but that wasn't your question.

But really, I have as much tlerance as I do passion and conviction. Hey, I really do like the idea of democracy. I just wish we had more of it. I think we would all be better off if voices from all corners are heard. Lately, we've been getting an overdose of voices who agree pretty much with your points of view, and very little oppositon. I mean really, think about it. Lets say, for instance that 36% of the population are against a war with Iraq then where are the 36% of the representatives who are speaking out against the war. Hmmmmmmmm?

So, heck, I pay taxes but I don't feel as if ZI have ever had anyone who represented me. You pay taxes and you've got people falling over each other to get a resolution passes that will clear the war for war.

No, I haven't answered the question directly but somewhere in my rambling I have hit upon some of the driving forces of our passion to be heard.

In doing so, I think I and others with similar POV, are also fighting so that you too can be heard. It's the cornerstone of democracy, and as far as I'm concerned, there isn't a better system when it works...

I think we agree more on this the one issue, if you think about it, then any other single issue, my friend.

Don't hate, Communicate

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 04:35 PM

Bobert: I stand corrected on the Private Ryan Movie refrence. I should have known Ted Kennedy couldn't have been that creative.

You didn't address the second paragraph of that same post though, and I'd really be interested in your comments.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 02:35 PM

I believe if you will go back to Kennedy's speech, Doug, you will find that he was *quoting* a general. This was not Kennedy's line.

The march was great but the media coverage of it gets a well deserved "F", which was about what I expected. Now, I'm not speaking of C-Span because I just don't watch too much TV, but you'd hardly know it happened by the accounts of the networks and newspapers.

Gotta go.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: DougR
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 12:39 PM

Geeze, Bobert! Troll has been a mudcatter longer, I believe, than you have!

One thing I will never understand, Bobert, is how those of you who share your POV profess to be so liberal in your thinking (not saying you are a political liberal!)but have no tolerance for anyone whose viewpoints differ from yours.

And PULEESE, do not elevate Ted Kennedy from Senator to a General. It was Senator Ted Kennedy not a General that made that remark about the "Saving Private Ryan" movie in a speech last week at a University in, I believe, Washington D. C.

You folks are so quick to quote anyone and anything you hear or read that favors your cause, whether it is accurate or not.

Other than that, how was the March? I didn't see a lot of coverage in the main stream press or cable. No doubt because they are all controlled by the "Military Industrial Complex." :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 11:26 AM

Troll: Where's your proof? Where was your proof in 1963? Tell ya' what, pal, I'll strat listening to your war drumbeat when you come back here with proof that you have enlisted, or your son has enlisted in the US Marines or Army.

You are nothin' more than a spokesman for the military industrial complex. You want to huff-n-puff and send our kids to kill and be killed just to get your little jollies. Yeah, where is your proof?

There are better ways to solve differences than what the military-industrialists want. I find it real intersting, that a lot of folks who are retired military-industrialist are saying no to your not so little war. Hmmmmmm? Wonder what that means?

Lastly, though you remain anonoymous, you just keep this thought in mind. A lot of folks are warning you that the stove is hot. Touch it or touch it not... You'll have to live with yourself... There *is* a final accounting...

Whose God are you hearing, troll?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Troll
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 06:57 AM

"There is a serious *lie* being told loudly and often to the the American people with a very sick man who is being led by Satan and who left to his devices is gonna get a lot of innocent people killed. A general speaking recently said that fighting in Iraq will be like watching the last 15 minutes of "Saving Private Ryan". Urbamn Warfare with lots and lots and lots of women and children killed by Apache helicopters firing on apartment buildings and lots of G.I.'s dieing in the streets and in tghe ahll ways of buildings. You kids, your bothers, your fathers, your next door neighbor or his kid. "
Proof please. Proof that Bush is sick and being led by Satan. Proof that we would be fighting house-to-house (that's only ONE of a number of scenarios).
If this is the kind of argument you make in court... Well, I don't think you'd be employed much longer.
Are you so in contempt of the intelligence of others that you think that all you need is rhetoric to galvanize the masses?
Again I say, wheres the proof?

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 09:15 PM

Kat, Stephen L. Rich, Walking Eagle, et al. Oh, *bless* you all. The way we're gonna stop the war machine is throwing one wrench into the works at a time. Hey, when you think it took 6 years to mobilize against the Vietnam War, we are way ahead of the game BUT we are gonna really ahve to send that extra letter ot email over the next week. I cannot over emphasize how important that email or telephone call is!!!!!

Today in London, I am told and maybe some of our UK Catters can confirm, some 400,000 folks assembled to tell Tony Blair to take Bushes war and stick it! In Italy, 100,000. The world is saying "NO" and it's time for Americans to keep up the pressure in any way that they can.

There is a serious *lie* being told loudly and often to the the American people with a very sick man who is being led by Satan and who left to his devices is gonna get a lot of innocent people killed. A general speaking recently said that fighting in Iraq will be like watching the last 15 minutes of "Saving Private Ryan". Urbamn Warfare with lots and lots and lots of women and children killed by Apache helicopters firing on apartment buildings and lots of G.I.'s dieing in the streets and in tghe ahll ways of buildings. You kids, your bothers, your fathers, your next door neighbor or his kid.

Hey, make the calls. Sent the emails. If you can make it to D.C. October 12th, be here and be counted. Do something todat to be counted. We can stop the war machine if we don't get comlacient. If we don't get lazy. If we just reach way down and do what we each can do...

So, please, please, please, just send do one thing today to be heard. This insanity must be stopped.

Peace thru resistence.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 05:22 PM

Some of our church members have requested ( as a group ) a meeting with Sen. Arlen Specters' legislative aide. Group action speaks louder than a single voice, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Actions to promote peace
From: GUEST,Stephen L. Rich
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 06:54 PM

I'm on a friend's computer which is why I'm on as a guest, but, Kat, that is a very useful and productive list. Let's all follow through on, at least, one or two items each and a multitude shall be heard!!!