England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:51 PM

Oh dear.. Gone a bit quiet I see.. Have you run out of answers WaV?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 11:49 PM

Hmm.. Ten out of ten for effort lad, but something tells me you still aren't taking this entirely seriously.

I shall go and pwactise my frute, and then perhaps frail my mandarin for a bit.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:37 PM

Mister Professor Smokey, sir, this assignment took a monumental amount of research into Traditional Antipodean marsupial bondage shanties, but I believe I have managed to get this in to you before sparrow-fart, I hope.

Lemme see, now; since one can estimate a typewritten page, double-spaced (standard manuscript format) at approximately 250 words per page, a four page essay would run about 1,000 words. And since, as the adage has it, "a picture is worth a thousand words," here, then, is my essay:

CLICKY.

A little further research turned up further information on the aftermath of the corroboree:    CLICKY #2.

And it's lonely in the Outback, so you take whatever you can get:    Strange sexual practices. Or, "Don't just stand there! Kiss me!"

Might this be good for extra credit?

Don Firth

(chortle chortle)   Oops! Sorry!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:02 PM

I think I'm inclined to agree in principle Spaw, but:
a/ Could you post a link to that yak-gobbling site?
b/ Do you have any spare catnip?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

I read it Wavy.....Your turn:

David Franks believes in racial discrimination.
Franks is a racist and a bigot as his words here prove.
I'd rhyme this but why bother?
David Franks is a bigot and a racist..........period.


I think I can get the vast majority of readers to agree.

Have a nice day.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:28 PM

WaV:

"I was 3 in 1970 when my family left England for Aus., 21 when I visited in 1988, and 30 in 1997 when I came home."

I already know that, and it isn't what I asked you. My question was: "Are you saying it's ok for foreigners to emigrate here for fifteen years and then emigrate back to their countries of origin?"

"Smokey - I haven't been in Aus. for 11 years, but I think the benefits for unemployed job seekers is about the same as here. "

That isn't what I asked either, I specifically said: "the unemployed immigrant/repatriate."

There is no point in answering questions that haven't been asked, it is a waste of your valuable time. If you feel you cannot answer my questions, just say so. Remember though; evading the question or not answering is usually an answer in itself from which conclusions may be drawn.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:10 PM

And I don't think my proposals are "absolutism" - e.g., I haven't said ALL immigration/emigration should stop; I have said all economic/capitalist immigration/emigration should stop the world over, from now on.

Beautiful, Wavy - IMHO this is the closest you've come to real poetry in any of your threads.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 03:06 PM

If there is a good thing
    From the Second World War
It's that most peoples learnt
    To conquer lands no more.


Well, blow me down! I didn't know that!!

Lemme see, now . . . how many wars have we not had since the end of WW II, then?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:50 PM

Catspaw - given that such rubbish is not being deleted, instead of trying to out-crude yourself, get off your catnip and READ this...

Poem 76 of 230: LAND RIGHTS

If there is a good thing
    From the Second World War
It's that most peoples learnt
    To conquer lands no more.

In Africa, Asia,
    And the Pacific, too:
Post-war independence -
    Steps only bigots rue.

But for some indigenes,
    Outnumbered much-too-much,
It has all come too late
    For liberty, as such.

So 'tis in Australia,
    And America's sites,
Where the best now, I think,
    Is to respect land rights.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:31 PM

So when do you think you can stop your racial discrimination? (My guess would be as soon as your Mommy gives up fellatio with yaks or 24 hour gang bangs.)

Try it Wavylimptool......As a racist and bigot, you're missing out on much of what life has to offer.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:16 PM

"Smokey seems genuinely unaware that, born here, I AM a repatriate, who sees himself as English rather than British" (me)...I'm not unaware of that WaV, I seem to have read it quite a lot. My point was that you emigrated from here to Australia, presumably because of some perceived advantage in doing that, and then moved back here again, also because you saw some benefit in doing so. It doesn't matter a chicken's nipple what you call yourself or how you see yourself - it doesn't change what you did. We have a saying round here: 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'.(Smokey)...as is detailed in my life's work, I was 3 in 1970 when my family left England for Aus., 21 when I visited in 1988, and 30 in 1997 when I came home.

"Wavy - I see there's a documentary about Ten Pound Poms on BBC2 tonight (starts in about 20 minutes after Stephen Fry in America). I tell you, if you could still emigrate to Australia for a tenner I'd be on the first boat to Darwin, especially after the weather here today. Oh to bask in some Northern Territorial Sunshine singing some genuine A. Trads like The Derby Ram. UE of course - or is that UA?
Otherwise, answer me this - how do you square your earlier subjectivism (regarding your musical ability) with your general absolutism (concerning your political convictions)?" (IB - no need for IBy)...like those on the "Wanted Down Under" TV programmes I've watched, you, too, failed to mention Aborigines and land rights. And I don't think my proposals are "absolutism" - e.g., I haven't said ALL immigration/emigration should stop; I have said all economic/capitalist immigration/emigration should stop the world over, from now on.
Smokey - I haven't been in Aus. for 11 years, but I think the benefits for unemployed job seekers is about the same as here.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

Wav, here is some youtube of an Israeli musician playing Greek songs on the bouzouki, according to you, should he be playing them?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_cb6c5nFLY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCPh9xeERfg&feature=related

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Stu sans cookie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:41 AM

'Otherwise, answer me this - how do you square your earlier subjectivism (regarding your musical ability) with your general absolutism (concerning your political convictions)? '

Love it Sean

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:14 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3x-AUEvwLk

I must say, this sounds soooo American.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:35 AM

Arse! Girls! Feck!
Tim

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:04 PM

Spoons!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

'Monibg' is an old Saxon word meaning 'sparrow-fart', for the avoidance of any confusion with the Icelandic pop-star.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:35 PM

Wipe that smirk off your face, boy. I want a four page essay on the subject of Traditional Antipodean marsupial bondage shanties on my desk first thing in the mornibg.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:47 PM

No, sir, I'm not chewing gum.

(I'm just wobbling my jaw around and snorting through my nose as I try to keep from busting out laughing)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:33 PM

I've got my eye on you Firth, and if that's chewing gum you're eating, I hope you brought enough for everyone.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:25 PM

"Sorry . . . " he said, hands behind back and head down while peering up sheepishly through his forelock.

(Actually, I haven't had a forelock since I was in my early twenties; I have the same barber as Yul Brynner and Capt. Jean-Luc Picard).

(but still having great difficulty suppressing a chortle)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

Tell you what - I'll do that properly:

See me in my office after class, Firth; I will not tolerate levity during my lectures.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM

See me in my ofice after class, Firth; I will not tolerate levity during my lectures.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:36 PM

(snicker snicker)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:19 PM

Tell me WaV, and pardon my ignorance - is the State's support of the unemployed immigrant/repatriate better or worse here than it is in Australia?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Insane Beard
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:01 PM

Wavy - I see there's a documentary about Ten Pound Poms on BBC2 tonight (starts in about 20 minutes after Stephen Fry in America). I tell you, if you could still emigrate to Australia for a tenner I'd be on the first boat to Darwin, especially after the weather here today. Oh to bask in some Northern Territorial Sunshine singing some genuine A. Trads like The Derby Ram. UE of course - or is that UA?

Otherwise, answer me this - how do you square your earlier subjectivism (regarding your musical ability) with your general absolutism (concerning your political convictions)?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:22 PM

I apologise for the glut of poultry in that last post, it was without foul intent.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM

WAV; by yur own admission, against a reputable definition from the UN, you are without doubt a racist. If that is so false and defamatory, sue me. PM me if you want my details. Lets watch the courts laugh at you as well.
Tim

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:26 PM

"Smokey seems genuinely unaware that, born here, I AM a repatriate, who sees himself as English rather than British"

I'm not unaware of that WaV, I seem to have read it quite a lot. My point was that you emigrated from here to Australia, presumably because of some perceived advantage in doing that, and then moved back here again, also because you saw some benefit in doing so. It doesn't matter a chicken's nipple what you call yourself or how you see yourself - it doesn't change what you did. We have a saying round here: 'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'. Or are you saying it's ok for foreigners to emigrate here for fifteen years and then emigrate back to their countries of origin? (Perhaps even with a messianic intent to rescue their beloved culture from the evils of impure influences?)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:00 PM

How many times do we have to explain that by your own very narrow definition of racism you aren't one, but it's easy to redefine things to soothe your guilty conscience.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:49 PM

WITH SOME QUALIFICATIONS, I could be called an anti-immigrationist but calling me a racist IS false and defamatory - you won't find any racist jokes from me, any antagonism or discrimination toward a particular race, etc. I have, however, at least tried to support the land rights of Aborigines, Masai, etc; enjoyed being among other cultures on my travels, etc. - and I say this, hopefully for the last time, in all "honesty" (HJ).

Back on-thread: dipping a polymer recorder/English flute into clean water is not only a good cleanliness-is-next-to-Godliness habit but, for some reason, seems to help avoid condensation blockages.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 11:36 AM

WAV, clearly in your own mind you don't believe you are racist. Perhaps you show respect to those of different races and cultures. But it has been clearly demonstrated that, by most accepted definitions, the views you are putting forward are racist.

From your defensiveness on the matter, it appears that you think that racism is bad. Indeed somewhere on this post (so far back I can't be bothered to look for it) you admitted that you keep quiet about your political views in job interviews, so you clearly recognise that they are not generally acceptable. So perhaps you should re-examine your opinions.

If, after doing so, you still hold to them, well it's still a free country and you're entitled to them. Just have the honesty to admit that they're racist.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 09:26 AM

In the words of Sue Lawley....

Tell us about your fifth record Lady Mosley

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:52 AM

I'm out of here, seriously. I've got much more interesting stuff to do.

SPB-Cooperator is right - there's absolutely no point attempting to debate with a dishonest racist. Someone remind me of that if I ever start attempting to get a new idea into WAV's head again.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:44 AM

You're only English in your head. By any external measure you're Australian.

And if being English in your head is what counts, then the entire post-Empire-Windrush generation of Commonwealth immigrants were English too. They certainly saw themselves that way - subjects of the same Queen. And they got here years before the English folk revival took off, with their own folk traditions that substantially influenced it.

So show them some goddamn respect.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:15 AM

WAV; you have emphatically NOT covered the queries relating to the UN definition, nor have you made any effort to do so. You are still a particularly nasty sort of racist in my book. Read my last post again. Then have a think. Then reply, giving a detailed explanation of why your views on cultural segregation do not fall under the UN definition of racial discrimination. Kindly do not refer to your utterly discredited websites, nor to the completely specious and irrelevant arguments you have used so far.
Tim

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:47 AM

I HAVE covered all the last few queries and been accused of repitition in the process - but Smokey seems genuinely unaware that, born here, I AM a repatriate, who sees himself as English rather than British; and, in line with this, IB, where (here, e.g., to save lots of typing and/or copy/pasting) I detailed our folk songs and dances, our hymns, our meals, etc: that's what I mean by practising "our own good English culture and values".

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:41 AM

Line 5, 'of' should read 'or'
Tim

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:01 AM

WAV. Re your post of 5.20 and my previous post of 4.50. I asked you to analyse your views on cultural segregation against the UN definition of racial discrimination and produce a clear argument about why I should not regard you as a racist. You claim to have answered this point. Where?
As things stand you are a racist, in that you advocate a different access to particular cultural activities and values, based solely on national origin. (The UN definition refers.) I am giving you repeated opportunities to either justify or modify your racist arguments, and so far you have not been able to come up with a single academically of morally valid point to do so. Insulting others, reducing the central point to nit-picking detail, repeating the drivel from your utterly discredited websites and re-hashing the meaningless arguments you have used so far do not count in this case. The UN definition has nailed you as the racist that you are, and you don't seem to have any answer worth the name. Perhaps it's time for you to go away for a while, take a break and reconsider your 'manifesto' in the light of evidence and truth, as opposed to just your own unsupported, academically bankrupt views?
Tim

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 10:10 PM

Economic/capitalist immigration...
You appear to have already done that twice WaV, and yet you say it's wrong - or are you excused from your own rules?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:05 PM

people now in England, e.g., should be into our own good English culture and values much more than present

Wavy - what, in your considered & erudite opinion, constitutes our own good English culture and values? And in what way should we be into them?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:45 PM

Jesus...
Is this bloody thread still going on??
Leave it. Drop it. Let it die....
The final score..
WAV Nil
Everybody else 100000000
Enough.
Let the poor bugger get therapy.
There is no point in poking someone when he's down.
We are better than that surely?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:27 PM

it is a complete waste of time debating with racists. Just ignore them, they have nothing worth saying. Just start a new thread on the subject and let them stew in their self-gratification.

End of thread!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: s&r
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:00 PM

1100

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:57 PM

It's obvious Pip - immigrants are terrorists, and they want to destroy our folk music.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: s&r
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:56 PM

'to have another go at me' WAV above. This is paranoia. No-one is out to get you. No-one knows anything about you save what you publish. When you publish you lay your publications open to critical comment and rebuttal. This is part of the norm in the scientific world and is known as peer review.

Your views are rejected by your peers and betters

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:37 PM

I did read and respond to that definition, Tim, and Pip just reposted part of it

Not that I noticed. (Nor, of course, did you answer my direct question. I suppose I should be used to that by now.)

Look, here's the UN definition again:

The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

In other words, deciding on the basis of race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that one group or another should not enjoy fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life on an equal footing with all other groups. Such as, for example, the fundamental freedom to move to another country if that's where the work is, or the fundamental freedom to choose what you wear, how you worship and what kind of music you listen to. You are self-evidently committed to restricting these freedoms on racial grounds; hearing you deny it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

as for "we'll all be better off if immigrants maintain their own culture" (Pip) I (and as just said, apparently, New Labour with their new English tests) question this on many grounds

But WAV, "when people lose their culture society suffers" (your own words). Are immigrants not people?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:20 PM

I did read and respond to that definition, Tim, and Pip just reposted part of it; and as for "we'll all be better off if immigrants maintain their own culture" (Pip) I (and as just said, apparently, New Labour with their new English tests) question this on many grounds - the most extreme problem of course being terrorism.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:55 PM

I have, rather, questioned immigration/emigration on several grounds in my collection - NONE of them racist

I have no idea whether this is true or not, and I've no intention of wading through your collection to find out. I'm taking issue with your comments on immigration here on Mudcat, and almost all of them have been racist. But prove me wrong: what are your grounds for "questioning immigration"?

people now in England, e.g., should be into our own good English culture and values much more than present

Do you mean that immigrants should abandon their own culture? But "when people lose their culture society suffers", or so you've said. Doesn't this imply that we'll all be better off if immigrants maintain their own culture, and contribute it to the hybrid cultural life of England?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:50 PM

Still no answer to my posts above, WAV. Still no satisfactory explanation of the relationship between your views and the UN definition of racism posted above either. You're nailed completely by that one aren't you? No wriggle room at all. All you can do is keep spouting the same inanities, but you can't tackle the basic truth; when judged against a robust definition of racism, you are a racist, as evidenced by your own writings and arguments here. Ignore immigration for now WAV, the UN definition doesn't mention it at all, so there is no reason why you should; your other main argument is about the arbitrary segregation of cultures. This means you would deny people access to participation in cultures other than their own,restricting them to observer status only. The indigenous population, on the other hand, would have full access to participation in that culture. Read this again, from the UN;

The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

You propose and persist in defending such a restriction in the cultural field of public life, based on national origin. Once again, based on the above definition, you are proposing a racist act, refusing to explain or recant, and you are therefore quite fairly condemned as an unrepentant racist. I would have thought someone with your professed views would glory in being called a racist, since it accurately describes what you stand for.

Once again WAV; a graduate level student should be able to argue this case convincingly, or adapt their thinking to deal with overwhelming evidence. What you choose to do is indulge in trivialisation, reductionism, personal attacks (especially on Insane Beard) and unthinking and uncritical recitation of the same discredited points. I have heard a better level of intellectual discourse among young people in their early teens, and if you were one of my undergraduates you would probably fail every course; time to shape up and come up with an adult level of discussion. Once more; I believe you are a racist when compared to the UN definition. Using the same definition, produced by an organisation you have great faith in, can you convince me that this is not true?
I look forward to a properly argued response.
Tim