Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 02:04 PM

Flashmeister.
Look forward to hearing your stuff (as you say, better done in another place!)

Leveller.
No offence meant. Glad to hear none taken. respect.

Lizzie.
Outrageous, spiteful and snidey?
I don't think so.
You have admitted that you can't play, can't sing, have never organised anything, and yet you pontificate as to how the media, and indeed the world should obey your every whim.
When you have your own Radio/TV show, Run for government, whatever. Then you will be entitled to change the world.
Most real people realise that as individuals, we do not have that power.
What really annoys me, is that you are shouting at the little people...It's not nice!
Yes, I'd love to change the world...I'd love that everyone liked Soft Machine. But shouting at you won't make it happen.
So get your placard. do a Billy Bragg, go to Speakers Corner, and rant, if you must. Won't change a thing. Just please stop aiming your vitriol at us little people who are trying to have a life, and earn a small crust. WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!

Leon Rosselsom (Yes, I know you've never heard of him) has written 1000 songs about inhumanity. Has it changed anything...has it Fuck...But, at least he tried. In Public, On Record. with some of the best musicians in the country. Maybe you should Google/Youtube him, and actually open your ears.

Do I bang on about him? No...I don't need to. everyone on this board knows about him...(He came to mind when you mentioned the Diggers...)
The first time I heard that was via Leon.

It's been said before Lizzie.
Will say it again
Glad you like the music. now do the research, and open your mouth before inserting your foot.Otherwise you just look foolish.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 01:47 PM

And leveller, it would be good if just occasionally you did take sides...and started to remember what went on on the BBC board...


And as far as Flashmeister is concerned, don't worry, sunshine, I won't ever write about your music.

There is only one band who inspired me in that way, and it seems they have now gone under the radar that Ian Anderson erected, to keep them out. I'm glad Ian's finally seen the light, but I find the way it's been handled, with a sacrificial lamb, highly distateful, but heyho, that's life..and I hope Brad's happy with it.

"My newfound friendship with Show of Hands? Well, that probably was a bit more to do with you - Steve e-mailed me to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you on their behalf. It soon became apparent, not least from Phil's public message (which really was from him, no matter how many quote marks you put round his name), that they found you as unpleasant as I do, and your attentions not a little worrying."

Thanks, but I'd rather hear it direct from Show of Hands if they think I'm unpleasant.

As I pointed out to Phil, who, as I recall from his letter, seemed to be a little worried that he'd met me 'the other night at a gig', I haven't seen them on stage since they did their Royal Albert Hall gig, over 2 years back. I have also never spoken to them, never had anything signed by them, never even bought a CD from them. In short, I have always stayed right away from Steve and Phil, despite numerous Longdogs trying to get me to go and say hello.

I have also never written anything nasty about their music, or about the men themselves, nor have I panted over them, or decorated my house in photos of them. And the ONLY negative thing I've ever said about one of their songs is in this thread...because it's a weak, wobbly song, not up to standard.

This new campaign, you know, the one where now...I'm apparently 'stalking' them, is just....well.....what can I say? I mean what the fuck are you all on about?

I brought people into their music, you'll see it on some of the old threads on here....and I had many people write to me on Myspace about that. That is all I have ever wanted to do, apart from deal with bloody bullies who inhabit this board and the BBC board, who went out of their way to slag Show of Hands off, to try and ruin their career and say deeply personal things about them.

Most people were frightened off by those who ruled the BBC boards..and this one too. I wasn't. From the moment I first ever wrote on a messageboard, anywhere on the internet, I was attacked, purely for liking the music of a band that the traditionalists wanted to annhilate from messageboards. I learned to fight, damned hard...I put up with absolute shite being hurled at me...and I learned to throw it back. It was the most bizarre SIX years of my life...but throughout it all, I kept the light burning for Show of Hands, because I KNEW that people were watching the boards, just as I knew they'd come over to Longdogs and find their music there, which is why the 'Whacko's Corner' thread lasted so long and was so well supported by me....Even Steve and Phil were reading that, so I heard, along with the Radio 2 board at times....

Geez, Joan...you talk to Sally Tams about it, see what she has to say...

People used to tune in BECAISE of Diane and I, and whilst we were both hurling witty comments back and forth, we also both knew that people would be coming to that board and learning stuff about traditional music, as well as Show of Hands too.

Whether you guys liked it or not, I became a master at thinking up threads about them..and it drove you all nuts! Of course, when you all imploded and sat round your cauldrons, you decided the best option was to moan to the lads themselves, stir it all up, make them SEE how I was er...damaging..their career.

I did no such thing.

I brought people TO their music, not the other way around, just as I brought people to Ralph's music.

I know...I KNOW that I can write the backsides of you lot if I want to, because sometimes, some people's music touches me in a way it NEVER touches you...and I only have to put their music on, in my headphones, and picture after picture, film after film, will come out through my fingertips.

It drove you all barmy.

Good!

My brain thinks fucking differently to yours, and there's not a day that goes past when I don't thank God for that, because if this music made me as mean, crotchety, unpleasant, biased, suppressive, bitchy, paranoid and downright buggered up, I'd want to WEEP!!!!

As it is, I hear Jim Causley's show and my kitchen becomes filled with colours! Instantly I see Kate Rusby back at Sidmouth, singing 'Underneath the Stars' that night of the last ever International Festival....I can recall every colour at the Royal Albert Hall, every movement on that stage, the way the audience reacted that night, the crowds, the traffic, the smell in the air that Easter weekend...I can still FEEL the sun on my face......

All you have EVER done is tell me to shut up, to write YOUR way, to think YOUR way, to only write about the music you love.

Well tough shite! I loved the music of Show of Hands...NOT the men, the music, because it was hugely important to me at that time in my life, when my daughter almost gave up on life because of a crappy education system..and I started to open my eyes bigtime!!! Show of Hands made me open them even more...

And if they are now surrounded by crappy people who tell them that they should distance themselves from me bigtime, then all I can tell them is that they are bloody well listening to the wrong people.

IF they have finally given in to you lot, purely because that is the ONLY way they will be accepted in the traddy world, then it shows me what a controlling, crappy world the English folk world is...ruled by bossy buggers who insist that you play by the rules.

I have no rules...

And that letter from Phil ONLY arrived because I made a funny remark about Walter Pardon. The fact that I helped to create a site about Walter was completely overlooked in the insane rage that befell you all.

Yeesh!!!

Does it make you all feel really good that you've managed to kill off the joy of English folk music for me? Is that really what is inside your souls???? Because if it is, and if Show of Hands have really decided to stand beside you all, then I shake my head in bewilderment at two men who once used to stand on stage makiing jokes about the traddie world and all who sailed in her.

Shite, they don't need YOU, they never have. They don't need me either, but to make out that I've damaged their career is total shite.

And ask yourselves this..because it's a question NONE of you have ever answered....WHY, when you all tell me what crap I write do you read EVERY SINGLE WORD and then erupt about it all? Surely you must realise that NO-ONE, apart from yourselves, would ever bother to read a word I write...Right???????

WRONG!

You guys KNOW that people read my words and it keeps you all up nights, because you're so up your own arses with telling people how to behave that you can't BEAR anyone to disobey you, let alone someone who loves the music you hate!

Well, tough bloody shite!

Why don't you all take a leaf from the Americans and Canadians on this site, because they are all so pleasant...but nope, you lot have to have competitions to see who can get the nastiest comment in the most times...

Yeesh!

English Folk Music has been damaged for way too long by those who surround it, who have surrounded me for six years..It will never reach it's full potential under those circumstances.

AND...I'm STILL waiting for you to write about the music of your new 'friends'....So far, this is ALL that has been written about them, from a long time back, on the BBC board...


>>>>Message 41 - posted by joaniecrumpet (U3891679) , Dec 22, 2006

Your wall can't be that effective, Lizzie - I got in. And shagged the chairman.

And I'd rather have pins in me eyes than sit through A SoH gig. Sue me.<<<<<

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 01:10 PM

"It's really sad when someone posts material that could potentionally damage my career. (Which Lizzie has done)"

Oh, do you mean the thread where I raved about PJD's music in such a way that people were scouring the internet to find copies of your CD, Ralph?   I think it was called 'Patterson Jordan Dipper Gold', the thread that is, on the BBC....Can't be arsed to find it, I'm afraid.

Or do you mean when I put, in error, that 'all the musicians were in one bar and PJD were in the other singing their songs'...or something along those lines, when I was writing my 15,000 words on the first Sidmouth Folk Week (of this century, Ralph, before you get all sarcy)....and on realising what I'd written, I spluttered with laughter, as did we all, including yourself, as I recall, and I apologised profusely.

I have NEVER 'damaged' your career.   

You come on here and say the most outrageous, snidey and spiteful things about me, but I do NOT respond in kind.

Grow up, Ralph. Get over whatever it is that is causing such bitterness inside you and STOP directing it at me.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:55 AM

Amen to that theleveller re. your sentiment following my end of much frayed tether rantlet - it is simply tiresome and sad to see worthwhile thread posts helplessly absorbed like a screaming Moby-tethered Ahab into the tumult of a foaming sea of insults and sniping.
blah.

Ralphie - I shall look you up - no doubt my own fractured and badly recorded offerings wouldn't even be stolen from myspace due to the dire quality of recording but they do indeed exist; though I shall forward them personally rather than hijacking this thread further.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:38 AM

Much appreciated, Ralphie.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 11:03 AM

Leveller.
Fair point well made.
I visit this site to gather information on all sorts of topics. Instruments. Traditional song/tunes, Tech advice (when my computer crashes etc).
I ask a question....I usually get really good answers. Thanks to all who respond to my requests.
A lot of people I respect post on here.
Any problems so far?
No.
Yes, of course I should ignore the incoherant posters who are not part of my life.
It's really sad when someone posts material that could potentionally damage my career. (Which Lizzie has done)
But, such is life. And when it happens, I will react. She just pushes the right buttons, and she knows it.
Not Big, Not Clever....Just human nature.
So Leveller. I apologise to you. But not, in any way shape or form to Lizzie Cornish.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:32 AM

Look, this personal animosity between the various parties has, to my knowledge, been going on for years, both here and on other boards. Like I've said time and again, I personally don't take sides, but can I ask both sides to please (pretty please!) give it a rest now? It's getting very boring for the rest of us, it goes absolutely nowhere and it makes a lot of threads very hard going for anyone else who wants to contribute. Can we concentrate on the issues, not the personalities from now on?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:15 AM

Facebook
Ralph Jordan.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 09:12 AM

Flashmeister.
I know you not...
But if we met, I would shake you by the hand (in an appropriate manly way of course, as befits a comrade in arms!)
You speak wisely.
I'm now intrigued to know more of what you do...
The Lizzie stuff has been going on for years...She will never listen, never learn..Ho Hum.
Are there any snippetysnips of your work lurking on the web somewhere...?
You show me yours...I'll show you mine.
Not putting my E Mail address on here...Come and find me on Facebook.
I like the cut of your jib!
Ralphie

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:54 AM

As a young folk artist and session organiser who scrapes along doing what i love by, as was posted above, traveling many miles, playing to dismal audiences, spending hours and hours perfecting even something as seemingly trivial as a few seconds of instrumental flaff - i shall not bore you with any more of the minutae - but basically working damn hard and caring about my music I would be gutted if people just lifted it off the web and pinched it without so much as a by your leave.
Yes the audience and people like LC who are not in any way musical themselves are important otherwise we'd all be playing to empty rooms and bedroom walls but you need to cut us musicians some slack for posting snippets. that way the flavour of the music is there and the desire is (hopefully) piqued to explore further into the artist's work and either go and see them or buy their music.

Sadly i feel that LC's disjointed bile spattered posts have much more to do with having a dig at SoH after Phil Beer's post (delivering a hefty dose of unwelcome reality to what seems to be a stalker or something from what i gather)and associated bitterness towards certain other contributors here, that I neither know why nor have the slightest inclination to care about the curious origin of, than any actual constructive opinion or debate.
It is extremely tedious to have to wade through reams and reams of this kind of hysterical drivel in order to extract a rare salient point or two posted by a no doubt equally frustrated fellow contributor.
I apologise for this slight diatribe and tangental rant but genuine posters like myself have no desire to be annoyed by trolls and it ruins the whole forum for everyone else, Ralphie and Ruth must have run over LC's kitten or something equally dreadful for this kind of baiting.

LC you may well have your heart in the right place but you come across as pretty scary on here - if you ever came to my session I fear I would hide in the toilets until the coast was well clear for fear you may like my music!! :-D

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:39 AM

Lizzie does not like SoH anymore - a woman scorned and all that...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:17 AM

Lizzie.
Having just re-read some of your posts I note that on least two occasions you have ended a posting by declaming...
"Hey,(or Hell) what do I know?"
(Think you might have answered your own question there!)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:08 AM

Lizzie

Please drop the sweetums bit. It just makes you look more foolish.
I would guess that 90% of the UK readers/writers on this forum know exactly who these acts that you bang on about are. Whether they like them or not is really immaterial. But the wealth of knowledge displayed here on music and related topics is sometimes staggering.
So, actually, it's a resource that I, for one find incredibly useful.
What it isn't is a sycophantic fawning fan site.
As Folkidave says, stop digging. If you continue, you'll end up on Australia. Come to think of, if you do, can you do us all a favour and repatriate WAV while you're about it.

No doubt you'll be popping into the Radway or the Anchor in a few weeks time. Don't forget to bring an instrument, or sing us a song.

I'm glad you are a fan. Please just keep it to yourself, will you.
Those here who are fans will agree, those who aren't will never be persuaded by your ranting.

I assume that if Joan ever gave up her post as Sidmouth artistic director, you'd be first in line for the job. Would love to see your CV......"Well, I like Seth and SoH, and thats about it really."
Don't think you'd make the shortlist somehow.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 06:49 PM

Nope, I ain't in a hole, that's the hole point...and it's driving you lot nuts.

I am, however, one of the few folks in here who's actually spoken about the er....song....as in the...er...title.

There are just a few others who've used this thread purely to er...try to dig a hole for me....

The question is, is the sum of the Hole less than the two Wholes put together?

Hmmmm....Arrogance, Ignorance and Holes... a whole new CD is born...

Sure are a few Arrogant Ignoramuses in here mind, who know shite all about Show of Hands songs, to the extent they can't even summon up their own words about 'em...

I shall continue to live in hope though... :0)

..whilst remembering what a good song The Diggers is...



Ho hum...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 06:13 PM

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:14 PM

Whatever you say, sweetness...

I think most people would agree with me when I say "When you are in a hole, stop digging."

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:14 PM

Whatever you say, sweetness...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 05:11 PM

I booked Seth Lakeman in 2005 for the first Loughborough festival at the Town Hall.

My "new life in Sidmouth FolkWeek" was certainly originally predicated on my partner's involvement in the festival - which goes back some 30 years. So once again, really nothing whatever to do with you and far pre-dating your awareness of the festival, but no doubt you'll still imagine it's all about you.

My newfound friendship with Show of Hands? Well, that probably was a bit more to do with you - Steve e-mailed me to apologise for the abuse I was getting from you on their behalf. It soon became apparent, not least from Phil's public message (which really was from him, no matter how many quote marks you put round his name), that they found you as unpleasant as I do, and your attentions not a little worrying. I guess you could say we bonded. We certainly had a drink and a laugh on Monday night at the folk awards. But I will not be writing reams of fawning, adoring drivel on websites about them - they don't want or need it, and that's not what I do. I have booked them, though, which I should imagine is rather more useful to them.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM

Nooooo, it's not upset me at all. Quite the contrary...as has your new found friendship with Show of Hands, your new life in Sidmouth Folk Week..and er...your new appreciation of Seth Lakeman..



Woops, sorry, I don't think you're quite there with the last one.....yet...

:0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:40 PM

"Strange though, sooooooooooo many er..erm...'coincidences'"

Yes, Lizzie. That's right. It's all about you. In fact, I'm sure when Jim asked me to be on his show months before you'd even discovered it, there was some big conspiracy going on. Just to get at you. And certainly when I said I'd be happy to be on the programme all those months ago, it was nothing to do with the fact that I work on a festival in the area and I wanted to promote it...no, it really was just because I knew that one day, it would probably upset you. And that, truly, is what my whole life is about.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:34 PM

Ooh nooo...far be it from me to even dare to......

Strange though, sooooooooooo many er..erm...'coincidences'


Great to read all you new fans are sooo busy writing about Show Of Hands songs in here though... ;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:15 PM

"Oh, you're on Jim's show....(no surprises there then!)"

No indeed...I am the artistic director of a festival in Devon, he does the folk programme on Radio Devon. Makes sense. In fact, he first asked me to be on his show back in the spring of last year, when he'd just been asked to do the pilot. (I include this information to head off the inevitable allegations that, once again, I am engineering my entire career just to upset you.)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 04:08 PM

Lizzie.
No, you're not a musician, or a singer. When you become one of them, (or indeed a festival organiser) Then you can pontificate on any subject you like.
Off you go then.
Look forward to the results. Until then, don't dare tell hardworking musicians how they should run their careers.
Ralph
(Thats a lost sale then.....Am I Bovvered?)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:42 PM

Will Jim lose a listener and should we be told?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:35 PM

Take it up with Steve and Phil, not me, matey.   They're the ones who are happy to let people copy their CDs, encourage it.

I ain't a musician, as I've told you soooooo many times before...

I am the audience..(scary, huh?)

Oh, you're on Jim's show....(no surprises there then!)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:30 PM

So Lizzie it works like this does it?
I've just spent 6 months working on a (nearly) solo CD. And you want me to just give it away? Lock stock and barrel?
No that you'd want it, but thats by the by.
How do you think that all these musicians that you happen to revere so much actually make a living?
I'll tell you how, by driving thousands of miles a year, every year, playing to sometimes pitiful audiences. And by selling product. (Cds in the old days, but now increasingly by downloads.)
And, you have the temerity to tell all those hardworking musos out there, that they should just give it to you?
Damn Bloody Cheek.
When you've spent several years learning to play or sing, lovingly crafted your little baby, with no income. I suppose you'll just hand it out willy nilly, will you?

Yes, Websites are showcases for artists, but to expect people to just hand over their product, because "I want it" is so stupid it's laughable.

I hopefully, when funds allow, might make extracts of my work out into the world, for people to make their minds up as to whether they like it or not.

If they do, Fine. They can buy it, but, I'm not a charity. It's part of my income.
As a retired bloke on a small pension, It could make all the difference.
So, get off your bloody soapbox. Learn an instrument, Learn to sing, put the thousands of hours necessary of travelling/practicing/ marketing that goes with the job, and I'll look forward to your solo CD in about 2035.
Until then stop pontificating.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:10 PM

Actually, I'm going to be on Jim's show in a couple of weeks. Hope you enjoy it. :)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

yawnnnnnnnnnnn.....

been here sooooo many times before, so I'll leave you to that one...

Hey, methinks it's about time you re-posted Phil's message, yet again, as it's been oooooh, at least three posts since the last you did it.


Go listen to Jim Causley's Orgasmic Folk Show, and you'll feel slightly less crotchety...

Possibly...
Maybe...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 03:04 PM

"But hell, what do I know...?"

Indeed.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 02:48 PM

Oh no...I haven't written about Sidmouth for years...

And Show of Hands have been winning awards for YEARS and YEARS, yes...even when I wrote about 'em, kiddo...

(so put that in yer Spiteful Pipe and smoke it)


Nope, it's a gripe that loads of SoH fans have had for ages, that daft snippetysnappet thing...

Just think how many OTHER Awards they could win if they let their music OUT into Myspace!!

And, they wouldn't be just Folk Awards either...


They'll never know unless they do it.....

Tell you what, you can ask Vaughan over on Facebook, as you're now buddies.....(Whoa, no surprises there then!) LOL


I mean WHAT is the point of writing a fabulous song like AIG and then only playing a few seconds of it??????

Strikes me their 'team' is a little upsydowndaisy at the publicity thingy...

But hell, what do I know...?

;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 02:35 PM

Show of Hands employ a number of excellent music industry and marketing professionals who know exactly what they are doing in terms of promoting the band. In fact, they seem to have won two folk awards in the very year that you, Lizzie, withdrew your support and stopped going on about them to the point of tedium. Funnily enough, Sidmouth FolkWeek increased its ticket sales by tens of thousands of pounds last year. Again, in the same year that you decided to very vocally boycott it.

Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Feb 10 - 10:48 AM

The majority of musicians/bands have whole tracks playing, Irene.

The whole point of Myspace, for musicians that is, is that it is a shop window. It is a window which millions of people may well pass by, at some time or another. If the window is not well lit, then people won't see what you are selling.

And then, of course, there are the 'franchise' windows, spread the length and breadth of the entire world, not just your local High Street. In the franchise windows there are opportunities galore for even more millions to pass by, or stumble upon accidentally. These windows ARE very brightly lit and they display the wares in their entirity, rather than keeping them low lit and covered in soft blankets.

What seems so very odd to me is that Show of Hands have ALWAYS encouraged people to share their music, copy their CDs, pass them around, pass the songs around, yet when it comes to their Myspace page, they do the exact opposite.

The tracks did start off full length, when first they went into Myspace, but when Billy Bragg highlighted the dangers of the Myspace contracts, they put the snipettysnappety bits on. Billy went on to change the way Myspace works, thus ensuring the safety of the artist's songs...Show of Hands stayed behind, and didn't put their full tracks back...

The tiny snippets that are on there now give no sense of the music, in fact, they're more than a bit irritating, to be honest, in my opinion..

But, there ya go....

Who am I to understand how Myspace works, huh? I mean, I've only had countless people come to me saying "Thanks for playing that wonderful track of ??????, Lizzie! I bought the CD!"

Still, it's up to Show of Hands *new* fans to point this out to them, not to me...

I've had The Duncan McFarlane Band on my page today playing 'Lord Franklin' (That reminds me...WHY weren't Duncan and his Band amongst the Folk Award Winners, let alone the Nominees???)

AND, of course, when you put someone's music on to play, it shows up on the pages of ALL your 'friends', which is another way of bringing in yet another window for your wares....

I think someone should write to Steve and Phil and point out that there new fans are pretty slow on the uptake about their songs, their music, their myspace page, their missed opportunities, their........etc..etc..etc......

;0)

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 10 - 11:48 PM

I think the point would be that Myspace downloaded tracks are not intended as as a shared facility for transfer to the MySpace page (or indeed any other type of page) of a third party, but more as a taster of what the overall CD sounds like (as for instance with Sting's snippets of his "Winter " CD on his website before Christmas). Short snippets of each track give you a flavour of what to expect, and an idea of whether you might wish to buy the thing or not. You don't normally need a full track to get some idea of that. The point of loading up a track on a Myspace page for most people is usually to advertise one's wares or sound , not to facilitate the download of those tracks by third parties to their own Myspace page - or at least that is the case with most people that I know. Hardly a case of arrogance or ignorance.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Feb 10 - 03:33 PM

Blimey!

The songsnippetysnappets on their Myspace page have got EVEN SHORTER!

I mean, there must be all of....ooooh..10/20 seconds of Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed on there....likewise all the other tracks from the new CD.

Yes, the entire video's on there, but.....WHAT is the point of having a Myspace page where people can't take your songs over to their page, and spread the word out even further?????????

I've had loads of people discover some really great music from my page..and I've discovered the same from the pages of others...


Methinks it's a touch of Arrogance, Ignorance & Missed Opportunities...but hey, what do I know?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:43 PM

"Start a Facebook camapign; rouse your zillion friends on myspace, put your virtual money where your virtual mouth is. Don't make excuses for inertia."

No. That is not what Show of Hands would want *me* to do. I'm sure they'd like all of *you* to do that for them though, and I wish you the best.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:24 PM

Once again pushed the button too soon.

The conversation is good in parts. Especially when the interviewer stops asking daft questions.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:22 PM

A link to SoH on BBC Midweek.

Towards the end - starts around 30 minutes in. The conversation is good.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: oggie
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 12:15 PM

... and performed live on Radio4 "Midweek" this morning followed by chat with Beer and Knightley.

Steve

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Flashmeister
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 11:45 AM

most definately the meister of understatement methinks!!!
In a strage twist, at my session last night a chap actually sang AIG and it went down pretty well, I do think these songs can work but sometimes the sentiment can sound a little tacky, especially when it's couched in all this pop/folky sound - the poem posted above is pretty much the holy grail of tacky sentiment dressed up to look like protest in my opinion I'm, afraid but it may stir something in someone else where it just makes me cringe a little.
There are plenty of people who are being active to change things that are abhorrent and unfair - I guess they are more busy doing that than writing twaddle on the internet every day.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:59 AM

I `ad one of them scribes from that "Sports News" in my cab the other day. I knew he was a `ack cos `e `ad best bitter spilled all down `is shirt and the lead of `is pencil was missing.
`e said, "Morning Jim, could you take me up to Stamford Bridge, Chelsea`s ground please? I`m gonna do a piece about that "Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed"
I said, " Surely don`t you wanna go and talk with them "Show of `ands" down west or out near Bristol or somewhere? That Mudcat says they`re going on about it"
`e said , "Nah Jim. I`m doing an interview with John Terry!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Morris-ey
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:42 AM

Lizzie, who needs the media when we have the interweb? Start a Facebook camapign; rouse your zillion friends on myspace, put your virtual money where your virtual mouth is. Don't make excuses for inertia.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Feb 10 - 09:27 AM

I believe "Show of Hands" were on national tv here in the UK this morning singing "Arrogance, Ignorance.."

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:06 PM

I see where you got your inspiration, Guessed:-)

Now, how about one called 'Young Banker' for us traditionalists? I did one a while ago but can't either find or remember it!

DeG

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 04:03 PM

Subject: Show Of Hands - bad for folk music
From: taddylad - PM
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 11:31 AM

I see that Show Of Hands have done a video of themselves on the internet plastering self-publicity over buildings in London about their new record. I thought they were supposed to be a folk-singing group and I think this will do a lot of damage to the image of english folk music which is very highly thought of and does not need this blatent vandalism.
who is interested?,I am not.and blatant is spelled blatant not blatent.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:56 PM

The world it is BAD
And it makes me SAD
I saw a banker he was a cad
and he probably plays cricket
whilst my grandmother
struggles with rickets
due to her poor diet
that I at
least deplore
once more.
When will this end?
the worlds starving children
are getting more ill then
can't afford pills and
losing their wills
to live
but if a lawyer
or a banker
or a Thatcherite thanker
lost his will
he would still
ask his friend Will
to write another will
if he will
and yes,
he will. good old Will.
I mean,
Bad old Will,
charging a zill
ion
for his
pillion
i mean
that as in
carrying
as he's
carrying
a carry on
of carrion
the world's woes
on his shoulder
whilst he wees
on the world.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:47 PM

What an appalling poem! Is that WAV in disguise? Or McGonagall reborn?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: glueman
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:19 PM

Does anyone remember Tash from Jam and Jerusalem?

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:12 PM

That poem is bloody wonderful...and oh so true.

Nowadays, they don't do interviews like that any longer, they send a bloke round, on his own, who does the camera, does the story, does the recording, the whole thing...and he sits there and gets you talking, telling you his own stories, once you get him incensed enough to let down his guard....and then, he tells you that he'll only be able to use the quiet bits, as they're not allowed to put the passionate bits on the TV.

????????????????????

And so, the days of the Beige, Bland and Blind voices arrived...

Bloody Cowards!

ALL it takes is ONE brave media person to step out and decide to tell The Emperor he has no clothes on....and he can do that by letting someone else do the stepping...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:08 PM

Poll Tax, Plymouth City Centre, to get Mrs. Thatcher to change her bloody mind and realise the People were sick to death of her..

I've tried and tried to get it going again, that same 'feeling' around the country, but the bloody media won't let the voices out, as they did back then...That woman, the one who stirred it all up and got millions of us out, was interviewed 'live' by BBC Radio Devon, I heard her, in my kitchen in Horrabridge...and was bowled over by her...and within days that interview had spread throughout the BBC local stations up the Big Boys in London...and POW! we all hit the streets and turned The Iron Lady into The Melted Lady...

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:07 PM

That poem is absolute twaddle and proof only of how out of touch with younger people and their activism the poet actually is.

Subject: RE: Show Of Hands - over the top?-Arrogance, Ignorance
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Feb 10 - 02:59 PM

"Once, we used to take to the streets."

Just out of interest, Lizzie, when was the last time you took to the streets, and in what cause?