BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 10:47 PM

*musing*....(since the thread has long since drifed)...I wonder when NOT eating meat became a semi-common thing? We are descended from animals who were omnivores, and in some societies, being a vegetarian is not even much of an option.

There are several reasons to abstain from meat...health issues, religious feelings, economic reasons...or BBES........the dreaded Big Brown Eyes Syndrome. I will shrug at the first 3, even the religious one...but BBES bothers me. I have known a number of people whose concern for animals seemed to be related to how 'cute' they are.

I am certainly aware that raising ANY animals for food usually involves some compromise in the animal's situation in its brief life, but I have no idea how to put meter on it....does a chicken 'suffer' in mass feeding areas? Is half a billion animals for slaughter better than 10 billion? Sorta...yes...but why? For which of the 4 reasons moted above? A simple numbers game doesn't tell me much.

I am rather of the opinion that MANY fewer people would be a step in the right direction, and allow 'enough' animals to be raised or otherwise acquired that their condition would be far less an issue.

I don't thing there was much 'moral opprobrium' attached to Inuit hunting seals...for fur OR food...or to native Americans using masses of Bison for their livlihood.

There is an entire recent sub-branch of the Philosophy of Religion called "Situational Ethics" which attempts to get a handle on problems like this.....but like any subjective theory, it is largely a matter of whether one LIKES it or not.

Yes, I eat meat....ate quite a batch today (Easter), though I am trying to cut back on it a bit....but I guess much of it is the economic factor.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Apr 06 - 03:15 PM

Here's a good article on the subject from someone who lives there...

http://www.cbncompass.ca/index.cfm?iid=1197&sid=8333

(hopefully this will not be too big to fit into Joe's large screen)


"They are the rage in Europe, but the question is where do they get them?

We see them on television - white and blue sealskin coats - on the catwalks of Europe and the runways of New York.

They are on the news every night now - those fancy fashion models - wearing white and blue sealskin coats, slinking down the runways, one leg directly in front of the other, like a fox tracking a rabbit.

While they strut their time upon the stage, the news announcer in the background quotes the most recent aged celebrity who claims we Newfoundlanders are barbarians.

As we all know in this province, we are not allowed to sell the skin of a whitecoat or blueback seal. It is a criminal offence for our sealers to do that.

Ottawa made sure, about seven years ago, that we ordinary Newfoundlanders and Labradorians would not forget the law when they ordered law enforcement officers to raid the homes, business premises, and trucks of all buyers of sealskins in this province.

Law enforcement officers seized all records of the buyers and any blueback sealskins they found. Every person who sold bluebacks in this province was charged with a criminal offence.

I know all about it because I am still in court representing some of the sealers in ongoing court cases at several communities on the Northeast coast.

Over and over we see the whitecoat and blueback clothing on CBC, CTV, CNN and other news networks, while they talk about us, shamelessly suggesting something that we know is one big fat fib.

The truth is that those beautiful whitecoat and blueback sealskins come from Europe, Asia and the United States where it is legal to sell whitecoats and bluebacks.

In those other countries the law states that every seal can be killed and the pelts sold as long as the seal is weaned from its mother - this means they can be taken about 10 to 12 days after birth. A blueback can remain a blueback for a couple of years.

So, these European and U.S. protesters who are objecting to the killing and selling of whitecoats and bluebacks should stay home and protest in their own front yard.

But they come to our province, where it is illegal to do the very thing they are protesting against, and where the penalties are so severe for breaking this law that nobody does it!


Of course the real reason why the protesters are here is because Canada is the only nation that allows them to get close to a seal, let alone a seal hunt.

The law in the United States is called The Marine Mammals Regulations of Alaska. That law says that no person, other than a sealer, can come to within 100 yards of a seal. A film crew in an airplane cannot come to within 1,500 feet of a seal. There is also no provision in U.S. law to allow a protester to be given a license to do what the aged celebrities are allowed to do on our coast.

Norway, renowned for its very high standard of living, directly subsidizes the seal hunt with cash paid for each seal pelt. Norway even issues hunting licenses to tourists to kill seals if they want but Norway does not allow protesters to approach a seal or be in the area of a seal hunt.

The UK law respecting seals even allows fishermen to kill all seals that approach fishing gear or salmon rivers.

Greenland has an unlimited quota to kill seals.
They estimate they killed in excess of 150,000 pup seals last year. Norway and Russia recorded 177,000 kills and they count their seals differently. They encourage sealers to kill whitecoats and bluebacks in their first year of life because of their high incidence of natural mortality. Their quotas are set so that three seal pups are counted as two adult seals.

While Canada is the only place in the world where television cameras are welcome to witness and film, on site, the killing of seals, you might have thought there was hope for change with Newfoundland's own newly-appointed federal fisheries minister Loyola Hearn in charge.

Last week the minister claimed that it is probably better to licence the protestors to come and film the seal hunt to show the world that it is well regulated and humane. Perhaps it is too obvious to point out to the minister that cameras aren't allowed in abattoirs (nor should they be) and they shouldn't be allowed on the pristine white ice fields. The abattoirs are closely regulated and inspected, and so are the ice fields."

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:09 PM

Thanks Peace ....havin fishcakes for supper tonite, and yes with onions, now you've put me off of it ...... Jeeeezuz!

Garge is a bastard .... now I'll have to have a passport just to go down to shop at Mardens in Calais Maine.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM

YES.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:06 PM

But, do you like onions?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 05:02 PM

Onions make me fart.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 04:57 PM

sIX... hehehe... you are welcome. I really wish I hadn't put in that last sentence in the beginning post. But, perhaps we all know and agree that Garge is an ignorant prick and that big business is a club of very savvy and ruthless pricks.

So... the discussion goes where it wants to go. I guess I'll take credit for the thread drift, thrust upon me as it is. I don't get credit for much these days.

Now... I must tend to my salt cod what I got simmerin for cakes. Tongues and cheeks and cakes... and a wee drop o the pure. Heaven.

BTW, I prefer my onions diced and not minced fer cakes. How's by ye?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:56 PM

OH I agree Peace .... I'm not against the sealers at all, in fact my posts have or should imply that I am NOT against them .... in fact far from critizing them at all. I understand and know these people.

I guess my statements regarding the 'harvesters' is a global one of the faults of capitalism ... the harvesters get the basic amenities of life, while the recepients get the pot gold.

Hey, this is a good thread for thread drift ... thanks gnu!

My biggest complaint against this hunt is the hypocracy of the American Humane Society.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:48 PM

sIx: I cross posted with you. My remark was NOT aimed at you. It's a general question. My own meat consumption is likely near 20 lbs per year; dairy about ten gallons of milk per year, five pounds of cheese per year and maybe ten dozen eggs. The balance of my 'diet' is largely composed of grains, legumes and vegetables. I admit to having a Pepsi per month and I LIKE it.

I have trapped and skinned animals for their hides. I no longer do that. Haven't fro decades. But then, if my family's well-being depended on me doing that, I would in a flash. I think sealers are faced with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:42 PM

The question I have posited has remained unanswered: Why are 325,000 seals more important than 9,000,000,000 other animals?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:40 PM

Peace ... I most agree with you that we don't necessarilly require meat in our diet .. and you are certainly correct with the statement 'And not to the extent it is eaten in North America'. Being a vegetarian who falls off the wagon every now and then to savour the exquisite taste of a barbecued hamburger and Italian sausage I can attest to that.

We are humans and we have our 'wants' and we will go to all extents to acquire those 'wants' ... and in most cases the 'havenots' who have only the basic 'needs' at their exposer are the ones performing the harvesting.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:38 PM

Heric, You have to understand that the seal hunt protest industry is worth hundreds of millions per year, they generate more revenue when they lie and there is absolutely no penalty for lying.

Gnu is right. Newfoundland seal hunters who are on a tight budget, do not practice "maim and release" When you think about it. The idea that half the seals are maimed is silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,dianvan
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:13 PM

what gnu said

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:09 PM

My father-in-law doesn't participate in the seal hunt, but I think he is a very good representation of a Newfoundlander, and I can assure anyone who cares to know, that he would NEVER leave an injured animal to die slowly. And he would NEVER skin an animal that was unconscious but still alive.

Anyone who would try to promote the idea that his is a common problem is committing a serious slander, and has a very dishonest and unethical agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:01 PM

Ah, screw the thread drift....

Maimed and left to die slowly? Skinned alive?

Well, gee, I guess I can only talk common sense regarding those statements.

Why would anyone waste their time being so inefficient? Time is money. Sealers ain't stunned. Whoever said that must be.

Why would anyone try to skin a live animal? Even Mrs. Saint Paul knows the little suckers bite if you are cruel to them. She's got first hand experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 12:30 PM

JTS: I should have qualified one statement. I "approve" of the hunt on the facts as I currently believe them to be. But good facts are hard to come by. My opinion doesn't count for squat, except as a newspaper reader where you have a worldwide PR campaign going on against you. If, as they would have us believe, about half of the animals are maimed and left to die slowly, then YOU need to be concerned about, and addressing that. Ditto on the allegations of animals skinned alive and conscious. (They don't even do that in a slaughterhouse.)

That said, of course it was a miscommunication to Carol, caused by the near absence of clubbing in Newfoundland. Maybe I shouldn't have taken advantage of that. I realize this issue is far more significant to your family than the lumber futures market is to mine.

Be well.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 03:18 AM

I would say this to my good friend sIx:

It is not necessary to eat meat. (I am aware there are exceptions that should be made for people with conditions like thalassemia, pernicious anemia, etc.) Most people do not need meat in their diets. And certainly not to the extent it is eaten in North America.

I do understnad where you are coming from to do with the sael slaughter being for pelts. So it is with beaver, muskrat and many other fur bearing animals. But either way, the animals end up dead to satisify human 'needs' or 'wants'. Frankly, I don't blame the hunters, trapper or slaughterers. If there's a market for it--whatever IT is--someone will supply it. It has ever been thus.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 01 Apr 06 - 01:11 AM

I told you I didn't express any views,

Yeah you told me that. I guess that means you don't have any respect for my reading skills or my memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 12:06 AM

Right. They have to be at least two weeks old before you can beat their little heads in.

Excuse me for considering the above to be a condemnation of the practice. No views expressed there at all eh? I'm starting to see the reason for favoring animals over humans. It is your empathy for and resemblence to the common jackass.

There weren't aren't any falsehoods expressed. Carol said they don't club baby seals. She is correct on two counts. The only time the phrse "baby seal" is used is by protesters and critics of the hunt. The "baby seal" that Bardot coddled was a different stage of development than the ones that are now allowed to be killed.

The other thing is that there is no such thing as a baby FUCKING seal. Perhaps you are familiar with the word anthropomorphize. They are seal pups. They are meat and they are clothing and omega 3 fatty acids. They are not your little fucking brother. They are not Bambi and they are not thumper.

I'm not irate about anything my wife or I have said. I'm irate because liars and charletons who call them selves enviromentalists and idiots like Bardot and MacCartney. Are making fortunes and racking up sympathy points because the fisherman of my home province are easy targets. They won't attack the beef or poultry industry because those have the resourses to fight back.

My grandfather went out on the ice at sixteen years old and risked his life to make a couple of dollars to get his family through the spring. He "beat their little heads in" to use your phrase but he was no worse than a rancher or farmer where you grew up. Bardot called people who did what he did "savage". The MacCartneys called them barbaric. My Grandfather was NOT a barbaric savage. If he was everyone who wears leather, eats meat, lives in a house or uses technology is a barbaric savage.

I'll thank you not to imply that my Grandfather was a savage.

Number Six.

Everyone I know back in Newfoundland eats seal meat. I can't stand the taste, but my dad looks forward to the spring more than most people look forward to their mom's Thanksgiving turkey.

I've looked at the seal protesting industry, which seems to be much more lucrative than the seal harvesting industry, for thirty five years and mistruth and lies have been their only products. The seals are cute. The seals are babies. Their mothers cry.

On Larry King Danny Williams invited Paul McCartney to come to Newfoundland and see for himself, to see our side of the story. McCartney's reply? I'm here, I'm in Newfoundland. He was on Prince Edward Island. This is what we have to deal with. Ignorance, self imposed ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:40 PM

Thanks for talking sense Number 6.

I'm otherwise quite dismayed by the level of discourse in this thread. Your last post, JTS is utterly incomprehensible to me. Your infant/animal dispute, whatever that is about, is with michaelr, not me.

I told you I didn't express any views, other than that I agree that head bashing is the more humane way to go. I also agree that culling them very young is not only as good as, but in fact better, than killing them at a few weeks or months. Yet you can't even be bothered to learn that in fact I approve of the hunt. (I would rather have been discussing lumber, which is a subject near and dear to my heart.) What I do not like is anyone trying to justify something with falsehoods. Bad PR.

I don't blame you for being irate, Jack. You got caught not only misinforming your wife about the bludgeoning of pups, but allowing her (who is such a careful fact-checker around here) to unwittingly repeat your falsehood. You must be in a heap of shit. Man, I don't envy you. I'll bet an ice floe off Greenland is looking pretty good from where you're sitting, eh?

It USED to be about the whitecoats, but now it's about the food. But it's still the same tradition. But we're spitting mad about the whitecoats. That's as hard to digest as boiled seal meat. You should pick a story and stick with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:15 PM

Regarding the seals ... the reason they are slaughtered are for their pelts ... to satisfy such demands and wants such as some pimp in Brussels who thinks it is very fashionable as to wear the pelt of some baby seal for underwear ... otherwise who else wants the pelt of a young seal, I dunno anyone who wants one, but there obviously is a demand ... as to the statsitics posted on this thread regarding the numbers of pigs, cows, and fish slaughtered .. well, everyone I know consumes the carcasses of those animals.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:05 PM

Heric.

Did you really argume about what you technically did or did not say then talk about what I implied?

No wonder you can't tell an infant from an animal!

LOL!!

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM

I wonder why they don't count as much as 325,000 seals.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:18 PM

"According to the Food Safety Inspection Service (FSIS) of the United States Department of Agriculture, 6.2 million cows, 12.4 million female calves, and 1.3 million male calves were slaughtered in 2001."

and another bit of info:

"Record numbers of chickens and turkeys are being raised and killed for meat in the U.S. every year. Nearly ten billion chickens, and half a billion turkeys, are being hatched in the U.S. every year. These birds are typically crowded by the thousand into huge factory- like warehouses where they can barely move. Chickens are given less than half a square foot of space per bird while turkeys are each given less than three square feet."

The second quote from here.

FYI

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:12 PM

Each year, 10 billion cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, and other innocent, sentient animals are caged, crowded, deprived, drugged, mutilated, and manhandled in US factory farms. They are then hauled to the slaughterhouse and killed under atrocious conditions. Nine percent (over 850 million) never make it to the slaughterhouse, dying from stress-induced diseases or injuries.

Additionally, it is estimated that more than 17 billion fish are killed for food in the United States each year.

The above is from here.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 03:03 PM

9B!! Goodness gracious. I had no idea. Approx' 30 per person. Something seems wrong with a number that high.

Ya know, I have often walked by the meat displayed at large grocery stores and thought, especially with the prices as high as they are lately, "I wonder how much of this stuff doesn't sell and I wonder what they do with it."

By the way, since the thread is no longer about Bush and Yankee business screwing over Canada on the "free" trade, and, since we seem to talking about animal cruelty (not animal rights... they have none), my pet peeve (pun intended) is the lobster tanks in those large stores. I have to avert my eyes. Surely, they could put the tank somewhere where the lobsters don't have to cringe with fear everytime someone walks by? And, in the Sobeys just up the road from me, the lobsters in the tank have a clear view of the cooked lobsters on ice... it's sickening. Am I the only one that finds this cruel?

Yeah, I know... I hunt and I fish and I BBQ every chance I get, but I don't torture any of them.

By by the way... does anyone else find "hook and release" a tad upsetting? My old man taught me never to shoot anything you were not going to eat. Applied to fishing, that means, if you ain't gonna fry the fish, don't torture it by hooking, playing, landing, and releasing it. AND, Bob Izumi, you REAL ignorant fuck, don't let it suck for air for five minutes while you yap about how pretty it is. If yer gonna put it back, put it back.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:23 PM

Over 9 billion animals are slaughtered in the U.S. every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 02:22 PM

Harvesting seals isn't greedy ... it's the demanding market for the pelts that is greedy.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 11:47 AM

I haven't expressed any views at all, Jack, except that bludgeoning would be more humane than shooting. McGrath expressed a view, but you don't want to call him on it? You're just all over the board on these things. I can't tell if this is about food, as you started to imply.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 10:10 AM

Harvesting seals has nothing to do with greed. It is dirty, dangerous work and it doesn't pay all that well. Its about a man making a living for his family any way he can. Its what men do and the motivation isn't greed. It is self respect.

Anyone who expresses the points of view that Heric and Michaelr are expressing is ingnorant of their own impact on animals. Someone killed a pig for the bacon they had for breakfast. Someone killed a cow for their shoes. Someone drowned a buch of animals for their electricity. Someone bulldozed habitat and "infant" animals to construct thier homes. The ship that brought the computer they type their complaints on may well have maimed whales and manatees on its way from Asia. It almost certainly poisoned fish and marine mammals with its bilge. So if you really want to help animals, go live off the grid and hunt and gather for yourself as one of them.

Keeping you conscience clear by whining about someone else's "sins" against animals is not an honorable option.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 31 Mar 06 - 09:31 AM

"You mean the Canadian government lets its people go hungry? "

... in some situations yes. Every major community has a food bank in Canada. Why, because there are people living below the poverty line, and when you live below the poverty line you are left hungry and in need for many of the basic necessities of life. On the rock, a whole community can be in need for food such as these villages out on the outback shores of Newfoundland and Labrador , and when that whole community is in need, there is no food bank. So one scratches out the best living they can do.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 11:27 PM

It's about food?

You mean the Canadian government lets its people go hungry?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: number 6
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:55 PM

The killing of baby seals resulting from human greed.

The killing of human beings resulting from human greed.

The killing of greyhounds resulting from human greed.

The killing of animals in traps resulting from human greed.

The killing of elephants resulting from human greed

the killing of ...

well, which ever way ya spin it, it's all gotta stop.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

Jackass Hypocrites like you are the reason that there is no white coat hunt. Not that there is anything wrong with killing a seal of any age. There is no moral difference between killing a one minute old seal and a one year old cow, or a six week old chicken.

The only difference is in your feeble, Disneyfied, processed food from the supermarket, would starve to death if you had to raise or gather your own food little narrow mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: gnu
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 06:22 PM

This thread was about Garge clubbing Canucks. But, who gives a fuck about Canucks? Certainly not you seal huggers. You ain't never been as hungry as a Canuck clinging to a rock in the middle of the freezing North Atlantic Ocean.

Fry me up some baby seal lips. I am up fer a good feed... can't sell me beef... can't sell me spuds... can't sell me lobster... can't sell me crabs...

Oh, but if I had oil, and potash, and uranium, and iron ore, and nickel, and electrickety... ah??? What's wrong with this picture?

Back to the olive branch, eh? Shove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 05:45 PM

Guest, JTS -- what is your problem? Forgot to take your medication?

I was expressing my distaste for the baby seal hunt. Such a comment is no threat to anyone's livelihood.

The baby seal hunt is happening. Whitecoat or grey seems a cop-out on a technicality.

This concludes my interest in discussing the subject with you. I don't like your tone.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM

The official FAQ page that some may want to read.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 03:09 PM

from a site (frequently asked questions) of the Canadian Fisheries and Aquaculture Management:

6. What types of weapons are used to kill seals?

Sealers use a variety of tools to hunt seals. Ninety per cent of sealers on the ice floes on the Front (in the waters east of Newfoundland), where the majority of the hunt occurs, use firearms. Sealers in the Magdelen Islands (Gulf of St. Lawrence) and on Quebec's Lower North Shore traditionally use clubs or hakapiks. A hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. Marine Mammal Regulations state that sealers must strike the seal on the skull until it's crushed, and administer a blinking eye reflex test or manually check the skull.

Together with heric's post that point should be clear now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 02:36 PM

From: michaelr
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

I don't think these people have ever threatened you or your livelihood in any way.

Irrelevant.

Yet you would threaten their livelihood.

Do you think that the meat you eat grows on a tree behind the supermarket?

What an idiotic question.

I'll defer to your judgment on that one. Anyone who would use a phrase like "infant animals" in a moral argument is obviously an expert on idiocy.

a whitecoat hunt that hasn't been practiced in thirty years and which has been illegal for 18

So why is it happening now?

Thank you for so clearly demonstrating your ignorance on the matter.

much worse outrages being committed by your own country

It's not my own country -- are you so stupid to think I make policy here?

Are you so arrogant as to judge my country when you will actually be able to vote in your own when you grow up and make a difference? Afraid to piss on your own shoes? LOL

Whatever.

Ah! A verbal indication of your maturity. The last resort of the infant critic!

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:25 AM

The animal rights organizations are still being dishonest about the white-coats. If they want my support, they need to be totally honest in their representations of what is going on. If they want to use the image of a seal as their fundraising tool, it needs to be the kind and age that is actually being hunted.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:20 AM

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:16 AM

Oh, sorry. You asked about clubbing. Answer on the same page. (It's the predominant method in the Gulf of St. Lawrence; much rarer (but permitted) off the Coast of Newfoundland.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:13 AM

Fisheries and Oceans Canada
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/faq_e.htm
"Harp seals can be legally hunted once they have moulted their white coat, which occurs at about 12-14 days of age. However, they are not usually hunted until they reach the "beater" stage of development at around 25 days old. Blueback (hooded) seals moult their coat as early as 15 to 16 months of age, at which time they can be hunted. The seals hunted are self-reliant, independent animals."

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 01:04 AM

heric, please provide a source other than the animal rights organizations to document your assertion that they are still clubbing. My source of information about this is my father-in-law, who, while not infallible, does live there and is pretty up to speed on what is going on in the vicinity.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:44 AM

Carol? Carol.

You said they aren't clubbing baby seals.

They're clubbing (and shooting)two and three week old seals (after their mothers have expended the energy weaning them).

You're still doing it AND you have the audacity to take a stand for truth in advertising??

By the way, O Sensitive Ones. McGrath merely pointed out that "hunting" was an overly glamorous word for this harvesting. Do you really want to argue with that? (And I have no doubt that clubbing is faster and less painful than shooting, btw.)

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:24 AM

Oops. Sorry bobad. I seem to have missed your post somehow.

bobad made the critical point, though. I'm very much in favor of animal rights. But I don't approve of the way some animal rights organizations are blatantly misrepresenting what is actually happening with the seal hunt. They are using the white-coats in their fund-raising materials because white-coats are one of the best fund raising tools they've ever had. But they are being incredibly dishonest when they represent the seal hunt in that way, and I can't support people who use dishonesty as a tool, even for a cause as worthy as animal rights.

They need to find a new symbol for their fundraising efforts. Until then, they do not have my support.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 06 - 12:18 AM

michaelr, it isn't happening now. Please read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: bobad
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:42 PM

"So why is it happening now?"

It isn't. There seems to be a lack of information as to the subject of the slaughter in the seal hunt. Those dark-eyed, white-coated cuties that the celeb protesters are so fond of posing with are not being dispatched, it is the seal at a later stage when the fur is coarser and mottled grey in colour that is being hunted. It's just that the younger ones make for a better photo-op.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:36 PM

What about the UK being the center for childporn and female slavery?

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:29 PM

I don't think these people have ever threatened you or your livelihood in any way.

Irrelevant.

Do you think that the meat you eat grows on a tree behind the supermarket?

What an idiotic question.

a whitecoat hunt that hasn't been practiced in thirty years and which has been illegal for 18

So why is it happening now?

much worse outrages being committed by your own country

It's not my own country -- are you so stupid to think I make policy here?

Whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Garge... kinda late fer suckin up
From: heric
Date: 29 Mar 06 - 09:12 AM

I wonder where the terms "pet peeve" and "tiff" originated (to describe the lumber trade violations.)