BS: New rules for the coming pandemic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 09:36 AM

Hard to reason with stupid!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 05:49 AM

Government advice fully accords with everything I've said. So here are the facts, stated simply, then you can whine away all you like, as I'm rapidly losing interest. Anything you can't agree with, tell it to the marines.

Bats can carry strains of rabies-like viruses, but this is rare.

27 UK bats, generally specimens found dead then reported, have been found to be infected out of many thousands sent in over many years.

There has been just one single case in the UK of a bat infecting a human. This was a man in Scotland in 2002 who was a licensed bat-handler and who had had prolonged contact with bats over many years.

In order to catch the disease from an infected bat (which are very rare) you have to be scratched or bitten by the bat.

Bats are very shy of humans and are extremely unlikely to show a human any aggression.

You can't catch rabies by touching a bat with unbroken skin.

No bat has been found in this country carrying the novel coronavirus strain.

There is absolutely no need to worry that you might catch rabies from any bats in your house, garden or anywhere else. It simply isn't going to happen.

There are eighteen species of bat in the UK, not one.

Enjoy life.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:32 AM

I wonder wwhy the government saw fit to update the link as recently as Oct 2019?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rabies-in-bats
Mr Shaw I regard you as the last person suitably qualified to apprise me of anything as by your own admission you do not differentiate between fact and whimsy. Your pontifications are best ignored

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Feb 20 - 04:05 AM

I saw some photos in the paper of quite a few inventive solutions to the shortage of surgical masks in China. Some people had made one from a plastic bottle cut into shape. Even the leaves of a large cabbage(!) and one young woman had attached the peel of half an orange to her face. Bras are apparently useful. But it seems that washing the hands thoroughly after being out is an excellent idea, also avoiding touching handrails/stair rails or doorknobs, then one's face.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 09:56 PM

well.. I was looking out our front upstairs window..

..ermm.. I thought it was a baseball bat..???

Though he is a big Scotsman... he could have been tossing his caber at 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 09:19 PM

Are we still talking about baseball bats? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 02:32 PM

In the UK these days our lives are realistically more likely to be threatened by Baseball bats..

Though sometimes they can be a force for good...

The big Scots bloke across the road
sent a gang of young trouble making skinheads running out of our street
when he started swinging his at 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 10:55 AM

Last I heard it was snakes or minks eaten by people.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 10:54 AM

Like UFO movies, people saw a movie Outbreak and saw 3 seconds of bats causing a viral transfer and 'guess' yes its bats.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:45 AM

"In the uk the bat is a protected species"

Hardly "pedantic" to point out this wild and grossly unscientific inaccuracy, along with all the other half-baked nonsense about our poor old bats. One fine day you might just learn to drop the hubris and do what the rest of us do, admit it with a little "oops" (that's all it takes) when you make a mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 08:07 AM

Only our resident pedant would insist on pointing out that bats have chritian names. The rest of us are more than happy to accept that bat is a generic term covering more than 1200 species. Still it managed to waste his time on a Sunday morning, while I sit back and laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 07:05 AM

"Ore facts?" Just goes to show that I have a cast-iron case... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 07:04 AM

More facts. Fewer than 30 UK bats out of many thousands tested have ever been found with the bat rabies-like virus and they were dead specimens collected for analysis, which kind of skews any attempt to put a percentage on how many bats carry the infection. We can say that it's very low. The Scottish case referred to is the one and only case ever recorded in this country. Another fact is that you can't catch rabies through unbroken skin, so you were very safe, Jack. I love bats. Let's enjoy 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:48 AM

Ore facts. Fewer than 30 UK bats out of have ever been found with the bat rabies-like virus and they were dead specimens collected for analysis, which

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:42 AM

You were safe enough, Jack, as long as you didn't deliberately scratch yourself with its teeth or feet. Or eat it raw.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:41 AM

I've apprised you of the vanishingly small risk of infection from bats. A single exception from nearly 20 years ago merely serves to prove the rule. Those are the facts. There are 18 species of bats here, not one. Another fact. "Coronaviruses found in our bats," eh? Well here's another set of facts. Coronaviruses aren't just one thing. There is a whole family of strains of coronaviruses. The one currently in the news is just one, a novel strain which has been named novel coronavirus 2019-nCov. This strain has not been found in bats in this country. You are spreading scaremongering disinformation in your usual sub-tabloid fashion. Fortunately, an ever-decreasing number of people now look at your posts, let alone trust anything in them.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:34 AM

Closest I've ever got to a bat was in the bathroom of a hotel in Langkawi Island, Malaysia. It settled down at the top of the door one evening and was lying dead on the floor next morning. I picked it up and biffed it out of the window. In hindsight picking up a bat in a part of the world where rabies is still endemic might not have been a great idea.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:25 AM

Unfortunate things, facts, aren’t they Steve?
What:
That some British bats are a reservoir of European Bat Lyssaviruses ?
A small number of coronaviruses have been found in a few of our bat species?
A Scottish bat worker died from rabies in 2002.In the case mentioned, the contracting agency, Scottish Natural Heritage was served with two ‘improvement notices’ by the Health and Safety Executive. Vaccination is now compulsory for all those employed to work on bats in the UK, including students.It is further compulsory for all those licensed to handlebats, including volunteers, and for bat rehabilitators, with vaccine either provided gratis by the Department of Health or by the employer where one is identified. (3 injections approx.£200)
The cost ofthe same in the US is scary.
Bat lyssaviruses appear transmissible to all mammals, including humans where they all cause rabies (i.e. serious and invariably fatal disease in the absence of post-exposure treatment). In common with all other lyssaviruses there is no treatment for rabies caught from bats once clinical signs appear and so prevention of infection and immediate post-exposure treatment is vital.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:20 AM

By the way, if you get a bat in the bedroom, shut the door (stay in the room), open the window and curtains and marvel at the creature's amazing ability to home in gradually on its escape route as it flies in circles round the room (it won't collide with you). Five or ten minutes should do it. If it exhausts itself it might rest on a curtain or in a dark recess for a bit. If it gets tangled in something you should wear gloves as you gently free it. It's unlucky for the bat but it gives you a rare opportunity to get up close and personal with such an engaging beastie.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 06:13 AM

We should look after our bats and celebrate them. A good bat population is a sign of a healthy ecosystem, and bats flitting around in the gloaming of a summer's evening whilst one is contemplating the upcoming barbecue, glass of Prosecco in hand, makes for a very pleasant scene.

I have hazy memories of Basil Fawlty threatening to put a bat up someone's nightshirt...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:45 AM

I too have had quite a few bats flying around the house in the evening, mostly pipistrelles. Once or twice one has got entangled in the net curtain after trying to get into an open window. I love the little things, and just use a tea towel to gently disentangle them and set them free. I've never considered rabies among bats - most interesting.
Now, next question. Er... do spiders carry rabies??

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:19 AM

I have bats in my roof and garden and have had them in my bedroom more than once. The chances of my catching rabies are nil.

Yes, but what if you have them in your belfry? Some contributors to this thread need to know.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:17 AM

Unfortunate things, facts, aren’t they Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 05:09 AM

In the UK a small number of bats carry rabies caused by European Bat Lyssaviruses.
In the uk the bat is a protected species"

Wow. Nothing like a bit of partial information or misinformation, is there? Hardly any UK bats have ever been found to carry rabies, and the type of rabies in bats is not the same thing as dog rabies. There is NO risk of contracting rabies from a UK bat unless you go out of your way to capture and handle a bat, and even if you were daft enough to do that the chances of its being an infected one are minimal. I have bats in my roof and garden and have had them in my bedroom more than once. The chances of my catching rabies are nil. No bat in this country would ever show unprovoked aggression to humans as they are extremely timid. Finally, as for "the bat" being "a protected species," there are actually 18 species of bats in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:26 AM

Scottish NHS advice

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 02 Feb 20 - 04:16 AM

It is interesting that Coronavirus is thought to have spread by bats.
The Marburg virus is transmitted to people from fruit bats and spreads among humans through human-to-human transmission. Fatality rates from outbreaks have ranged from 24% to 88%. (When I worked in Niger 40 years ago it was known as green monkey fever)
In the UK a small number of bats carry rabies caused by European Bat Lyssaviruses.
In the uk the bat is a protected species

The Lancet

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 08:40 PM

Against treaty we did engage in bio weapon research but failed in an ethnic weapon development. We do know how kill off the young or the old and even specific middle age people.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:40 PM

Unresolved is probably a safer answer than yea or nay

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ethnic_bioweapon

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:44 PM

pfr racial specific virus have been researched most heavily, believe it or not. As it turns out, specific ages are far more reliably infected than race specific engineered viral infections. But that was then, this is now. Maybe there have been 'new breakthroughs'.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: peteglasgow
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:54 PM

while we can feel very sorry for chinese folk and i'm sure they are worried. here in england we have a 'benefits' system for people on hard times that is far more dangerous and responsible for many more deaths. and they don't have to suffer ians or ian duncan shit

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:12 PM

An B - I'm English, my mrs is Welsh..

Her proud claims to be 100% celtic are dubious at best...
I know my DNA is a mash up..

Either way, a nasty virus can kill us both equally as effectively.....

Unless bugs are competing to score extra points for culling specific racial demographic victims...???


[cue.. more conspiracy theories about genetically engineered covert bio warfare viruses...]

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 02:00 PM

Robomatic, 27th Jan., 07-00:

Given that many of the administrators of the Raj were Scots (let alone the soldiers), interesting in these "pluralistic" days that it's still not problematic to refer solely to the English. Some are more equal than others.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:59 PM

The police drivers could have got out for a smoke with the Coachie,
out of sight of press cameras..

Maybe a layby burger van with a long queue within cough and spit distance...

This is Britain after all.. we don't see any point in all that PC health and safety hygiene nonsense...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:54 PM

Did anyone else notice, in the videos of the coaches taking the British returnees from the airport to their quarantine accommodation, the incongruity of a passenger wearing a haz-mat suit sitting on the front seats, whilst the driver was wearing his usual clothing?

There were similar "incongruous" photos released during the Skripal, affair.

It does make you wonder about the script we are being fed.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 12:44 PM

...there was a police escort.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:59 AM

My first office job 40 years ago involved reading maps
to plot the most direct cost effective travel itineraries for coach drivers..

I was young and green, and diligently planned the most logical routes,
which I passed to managers for approval.
My work was immediately returned and I was instructed that the drivers won't comply.
In reality I need talk to them individually about the roads they want to travel on, and where they want to stop for rests.
Because all the drivers have 'personal interests and business' they need to conduct
whilst out on the road transporting holiday makers...

If things haven't changed much since then,
that quarantine coach driver might have stopped and got out at several locations,
for a smoke and banter with other drivers, go for comfort breaks in cafes and girlfriends houses,
do dodgy deals with regular customers out of the luggage compartments,
and have viral contact with loads of random mates from the airport to the emergency zone hospital...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:58 AM

I saw this on the BBC News. Apparently, the person in the hazmat suit in the front seat was a special healthcare professional, who was primed ready to assist if any passenger became ill in transit.
The drivers were told that, since the passengers were behind them, there was minimal risk to their catching anything. I find this extremely bizarre. Afterwards, the drivers would be quarantined at home for 10 days. (Gaily infecting their families?!) I'd have refused this job if I'd been a driver.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 11:31 AM

Did anyone else notice, in the videos of the coaches taking the British returnees from the airport to their quarantine accommodation, the incongruity of a passenger wearing a haz-mat suit sitting on the front seats, whilst the driver was wearing his usual clothing?

WT Actual F?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:32 AM

Conspiracy theories abound...

well timed Chinese pandemic in relation to Trump's trade war...

USA black ops bat infects patient zero...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 10:06 AM

I strongly recommend that Americans get their doctors to prescribe up to a year in the future for common ongoing prescriptions because availability may be severely curtailed due to import disruptions as described on MSNBC.

I don't know about the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:30 PM

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2231453-new-coronavirus-may-be-much-more-contagious-than-initially-thought/?utm_campaign=on

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:28 PM

ahem.. this one...

Back in the late 80s - same time as when I drank frequently in Barking pubs..
I was having a few months fling with an older woman from Hong Kong,
she was a daughter of a high up affluent Hong kong family..

On the subject of Chinese eating weird stuff,
she said her old dad was reputed to impress his posh rich business chums
by providing meals of live monkey brains...

[illegal then, if I recall right..]

Never knew whether that was true, or she was just playing up to oriental stereotypes to have a laugh..

But she did know the best Chinatown restaurants to take me out to...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:26 PM

see my errmmm.. intentional clever crossover in the Bertie Russell thread...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:10 PM

"why can't they eat proper grub from supermarkets and fast food takeaways...???"

Reminds of Billy Connolly ridiculing trawlermen for going out in dangerous, stormy conditions by asking why they don't just go to the fish shop like everybody else...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:08 PM

What makes this brand new corona virus so contagious is that it can infect others -before- symptoms appear.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:00 PM

I just had an interesting conversation with a fellow American who emigrated from Vietnam. He is of the opinion that the world has benefitted greatly from English cultural (colonial?) influence and currently from what is effectively pax Americana whether the U.S. is trying to do this or not is a separate issue. The fact of the U.S. being large and relatively just is what makes the world work in his opinion. This comes with a healthy credit to the Judeo-Christian religion which for him provides an ethical basis not found in the eastern religions. He would rather have American/ English unitary cultural influencee over other smaller world countries than Indian/ Chinese/ gulp Russian.

I agree with much but not all of what I'm synopsizing above. If I weighed in personally I would make this conditional on multiple levels and it would be ten times as long as it is. I did have an Indian roommate in school who made no bones about the fact that India would not be a united nation if it hadn't been for the English.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:58 PM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-outbreakchinese-live-animal-markets-recipe-disaster/

why can't they eat proper grub from supermarkets and fast food takeaways...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 08:43 AM

For not being omnicient, your pound of flesh is in the mail.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:15 AM

Ah, so you now accept that it is a 3-4% mortality rate, not the 1 in 3 that you originally claimed.
Better late than never.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 07:06 AM

Corrections;
the incubation period is 5 to 15 days
The 3-4% mortality rate is dominant over the worst possible strain
however this is 3 times as deadly as the flu.