BS: New rules for the coming pandemic

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:38 PM

I give up. Off-topic off-color squabbling posts have to be removed one at a time and it's a waste of my time - there's no resurrecting this hot mess. You all need to go outside to play for a while. Or pick up a musical instrument and create some music. This thread has run it's course (unlike the COVID19 virus).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:47 PM

Steve - count back to who inconsiderately spunked it away...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:40 PM

Flippin' 'eck. It suddenly jumped from 999 to 2003. Twats...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:38 PM

Bollerks, pfr. It's mine...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:36 PM

Sorry mates - you can't claim "1000" right now..

But wait for a few deletions.. then the race is on...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:30 PM

Donny - If you must, have the last word.. [you obviously will..]

But before you do.
Why are you being more of a supercilious wanker than usual right now...???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:26 PM

Opps its late here too edit NIAID not non inflamatories :^/

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:21 PM

Its past their isolated bedtime in the UK. Frustrations will only grow in the Idiocracies of the world. If I had as big an ego as they think, I might care.

The 'Plot against America' looks promising.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:19 PM

And no conspiracy here. As you can see, I cross-posted with pfr...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:17 PM

Trouble is, Jeri, you're so obsessed with thinking that you're surrounded with pains in the arse (esp. a la Brit...) that you don't recognise a real pain in the arse when you see one. And there's no bloody need to effin' swear...You're a mod, right? What would you think of a footie referee who charged around the pitch effin' and jeffin' at all the players...? You're supposed to be that ref, Jeri...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:16 PM

Ohio is cancelling "nonessential" abortions. Funny, I never heard of cosmetic abortions...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:16 PM

Donny - I will stop being polite or tolerant..

I am not in the mood for this unnecessary pointless antagonism from a smug conceited pretentious arsehole..

You started this stupidity for absolutely no sensible relevant reason...!!!

"From: Donuel - PM
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:06 PM

In the absence of Mad Magazine I'm glad pfr is here.

but his politics are horribly blind."...????????????????????????????????

I'm probably not the only Brit who wishes you could be barred from
inflicting your wankery on UK politics threads...

Mods, please read this exchange before deleting all the posts related to it.
But please leave it up long enough for other mudcatters to see it,
to form their own opinions...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:08 PM

Will you people grow the fuck up?!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 08:04 PM

I started this thread due to my association with the NIH and NSAID. While your expertise is now about bar fights.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:49 PM

Hee hee Helen! He starts his 'deep cleaning' tomorrow at the school. I don't know whether they'll give him a mask (several pupils will be there, as children of Key Workers can continue to attend school)
I reckon his boss won't be too happy if he turns up in a bra mask...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:22 PM

When he looks like he's having a panic attack, Senoufou?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:16 PM

An F cup would support a small child on a swing.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:06 PM

In the absence of Mad Magazine I'm glad pfr is here.



but his politics are horribly blind.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:03 PM

I've just told my husband he's going to be wearing a mask made from one of my F-cup bras. He's horrified (He tends to believe everything I tell him) I said not to worry as we'd both be in matching masks.
When should I confess I'm only teasing?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:39 PM

Sen - oddly enough, me and the mrs were discussing that,
after I was sat on the bog noticing her washing drying over the bath...

All fun aside, they might actually be a serious contender for make shift emergency masks...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:30 PM

Or an old bra pfr, each cup would make a nice mask (mine are quite large)!!

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:03 PM

"still no advice to follow the likes of Korean and Chinese citizens in wearing masks..?"

howzabout making your own from a patriotic British cricket box and jockstrap...???

Howzat...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:39 PM

Advice to over 70s in self isolation..

Enjoy catching up on movie and TV boxsets..
But probably best to avoid any TV series which dragged on for more than 2 or 3 seasons,
which were granted a final episode with a satisfying end
to character an narrative arcs...

I'd stick to short mini series, myself.. just in case...

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:08 PM

...just watched the latest update from Boris and co and still no advice to follow the likes of Korean and Chinese citizens in wearing masks..?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 01:29 PM

I theorize it was all Steve's fault. Watch as this thread gets closed over his UKistic insistence the world live by his rules.

If you are anywhere on this planet your odds are broadly 40% to 80% that you will catch this special cold. If I got a flu test it would still be subject to a 30% false report average. I do not know the exact accuracy for a covid test, If a physician thinks there is a 50 percent chance of the patient having COVID-19, the test will be positive 85 percent of the time. Fifteen percent of the infected patients will incorrectly be diagnosed as not having the disease. If the patient does not have the disease, only 70 percent of the patients will have a negative test. It would take four consecutive negative tests to conclusively prove the patient did not have the disease.


btw I see nothing odd about having the sensation of a lung infection in one lung only.

With Casinos closed we will have to wager on our own that Nigel stays but Steve goes into the eternal yonder soon.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:56 PM

One for all and all for one??????

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france

https://globalnewshut.com/french-border-guards-impound-trucks-filled-with-130000-face-masks-bound-for-britain/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/business/eu-exports-medical-equipment.html

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:21 PM

”I was astounded at the insensitivity of whoever closed the last thread at a time like this - let's not lose too many more with a "it wasn't our side" blame game”

I was astounded at the insensitivity of the three people who wouldn’t stop the flaming and squabbling, despite my appeal as the OP to behave in a civilised manner.

They got what they deserved. Fuck ‘em.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 12:13 PM

Donuel, stop theorising. I'd also add that a one-sided common cold is a phenomenon that is quite possibly, er, new to science...

A man from China coughed right in front of me in Richmond M&S two weeks ago. And what do you know, I didn't catch anything. This is true, by the way.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:36 AM

If you had an upper cold as opposed to a deep cold you probably had rhino.

I attended an exclusive dinner with about 25 Chinese people in December. I got a deep painful cold on the right side later. Im not tested but I am curious now if I have covid antibodies. With no high fever I am just whistling past the graveyard.
If I could get tested I could be helping instead of hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:25 AM

This is why it isn't going to work to quarantine - because we keep ordering stuff companies shipping through delivery services with workers who aren't given sick leave, and who are penalized if they take sick days anyway.

I may be staying out of the path of most people, but I have ordered a couple of things. So my next goal is to order less, or do it all at one time so there is just one box. And I'm going to set up a hand-washing station on my front porch.

"Terrified" package delivery employees are going to work sick

Truckers and warehouse workers at UPS and FedEx feel they have no choice but to keep showing up, even with coronavirus-like symptoms.

Hour after hour, day after day, the packages keep arriving: food, medicine, clothes, toys and a million other items brought to the doorsteps and building lobbies of Americans who are hunkering down as the coronavirus sweeps the land.

An increasing number of the workers sorting those boxes, loading them into trucks and then transporting and delivering them around the country have fallen sick.

They have coughs, sore throats, aches and fevers — symptoms consistent with the coronavirus. Yet they are still reporting for their shifts in crowded shipping facilities and warehouses and truck depots, fearful of what will happen if they don’t.

“I have been coming in sick because I’m worried that I’ll lose my job or just be punished if I call out,” said Angel Duarte, a package handler at a UPS hub in Tucson, Ariz. “I am 23, and I have no savings, and I have a 4-month-old son.”

UPS, FedEx and XPO Logistics are three of the largest shipping and logistics companies in an industry that collectively delivers about 18 trillion dollars’ worth of goods every year. With millions of Americans now on lockdown, home-delivery orders have soared, and the companies have become among the few power sources keeping the lights on in the darkening United States economy. UPS, for example, is one of the main companies that deliver packages for Amazon.

Public health experts said the odds were relatively low that ill warehouse workers or truck drivers would infect the recipients of packages, in part because the virus does not survive on cardboard surfaces for very long.

But as state governments race to contain the fast-spreading pandemic by shutting down businesses and banning gatherings of more than a handful of people, more than 30 employees of UPS, FedEx and XPO said in interviews and emails that they were worried that their warehouses and trucks had become breeding grounds for the virus.

Some warehouse workers said supervisors had rebuffed them when they pleaded for bleach, masks, gloves and a ready supply of hand sanitizer. In some facilities, even hand soap and paper towels are scarce, employees said. Employees continue to be jammed shoulder to shoulder along conveyor belts and required to maintain rituals such as security pat-downs.

Many workers in the logistics and delivery industry get at most a handful of paid sick days a year. That can push them to work through coughs and fevers. Now, with so many people and businesses relying on a functioning delivery system, the pressure to go in has only intensified, workers said.

A package sorter in a UPS facility near San Francisco said she had been going into work every day, even though her “throat feels like broken glass.” The worker, who requested anonymity, said she was petrified that she would lose her job if she called in sick. “I can’t afford to be homeless,” she said.

Another UPS package handler, Jeff Donigian, who works in Manchester, N.H., said he had been showing up to work feeling ill and coughing. He told a supervisor; he was told to go in anyway.

A UPS driver with a compromised immune system said she had been hauling packages around Northern California despite feeling sick for a week. With an avalanche of orders, her supervisor told her that UPS could not afford to lose her, even for a couple of days.

“While it is possible to find an exception, our work force has been provided information and supplies to manage health risks,” said Steve Gaut, a UPS spokesman.

He said that the company had “substantially increased cleaning and disinfecting surfaces throughout our facilities,” and that the vehicles and equipment were disinfected every day. Masks are being made available to drivers who made deliveries to health care and assisted-living facilities, and the company is “distributing an additional 250,000 bottles of hand sanitizer.”

Mr. Gaut declined to comment on the experiences of the drivers or workers handling packages, but emphasized that UPS did not want sick employees to go into work, adding that the company provides paid time off for those who are infected.

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At XPO, which handles shipping for companies like Disney, Nike and Verizon and has a large fleet of trucks that haul goods nationwide, warehouse workers and truck drivers do not get any paid sick days. The company, which has faced intense criticism from employees about dangerous work conditions in its warehouses, offers to “lend” workers up to 100 hours of time off, but employees have to repay that time.

An XPO warehouse worker and a driver said in interviews that as a result of the company’s policy on sick leave, they had been going into work with coughs and worse.

“The company is shifting the financial burden on the people who can least afford it,” said Mike Zangrillo, a 67-year-old driver for XPO in Miami. If he gets the coronavirus, he said, he plans to keep driving his eighteen-wheeler.

Bob Josephson, an XPO spokesman, said the company had started offering paid time off for workers to be tested for the coronavirus and, if necessary, quarantined. “As the situation evolves, we’re listening to our employees’ concerns and adjusting our policies in real time,” he said.

Dan Baker, a part-time package handler for FedEx in Nashville, worked through a sore throat and stomach problems this month. When he developed a fever, he told his supervisor he needed a day off.

“I really need you here today,” Mr. Baker’s supervisor told him in a text message reviewed by The New York Times. He took the day off anyway. The company marked his absence as unexcused, meaning he got a demerit. Too many demerits can get a worker fired.

“I went to human resources to ask about it, like, ‘Why was I given an unexcused absence, why’d I get in trouble for this, when there’s a pandemic going on?’” Mr. Baker said. “And they were like, ‘I don’t know what to tell you.’”

Mr. Baker described a macho culture at his warehouse, where people have not been taking the virus seriously. One colleague who wore a mask was teased so relentlessly that he took it off. Mr. Baker overheard another colleague telling a security guard that his mother had tested positive but that he had to gone to work anyway.

“It’s not going to do these people who are ordering and hoarding this stuff any good if everyone handling the packages are sick,” he said.

Jenny Robertson, a FedEx spokeswoman, said the company had been urging employees “to take any signs of illness seriously and seek medical attention as needed.” She said that the company had been frequently disinfecting facilities and vehicles and that it had recently increased paid sick leave available to some employees.

Ms. Robertson arranged for The Times to speak with a driver in Garden City, N.Y., who said FedEx had provided him with gloves, hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes for his truck. The driver, Raymond Wenz, said he had nine days of personal and sick days to use if he fell ill. He said he was confident that, if needed, he could use his three weeks of vacation, which must normally be scheduled in advance.

“I’m pretty sure that if I’m in a bind, they would work with you,” Mr. Wenz said.

Truck drivers for UPS, FedEx and XPO said they were grateful for a recent change: Customers no longer need to sign for deliveries. That means no shared pens and no need to get within six feet of customers.

The drivers described operating in what felt like a world hollowed out by sickness. On Facebook, they swap photos wearing gas masks. Regular customers will not let the drivers use bathrooms. It can be hard for them to find places to wash their hands along the routes, especially as more and more businesses close.

Nick Perry, a 32-year-old UPS driver in Columbus, Ohio, said his supervisors had told him that he could not have Lysol wipes or hand sanitizer in his truck without paperwork listing the ingredients, as required by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration. Mr. Perry said he feared for his twin boys, who have a history of serious respiratory problems.

“I didn’t think I’d be on the front line of the pandemic,” he said. “But here I am, and I am terrified for the public’s health, and for my parents and for my family.”

On Wednesday, Gov. Mike DeWine of Ohio urged businesses to take the temperatures of all employees before they entered workplaces and to be “aggressive in regard to cleaning surfaces and having soap/hand sanitizer available.”

Mr. Perry said a manager had told him that the governor’s directive was not a “mandate” and that UPS’s Columbus trucking facility did not have the necessary resources to comply.

Some UPS workers created a petition to push the company to better sanitize common areas and give employees 14 days of paid time off if they needed to be in quarantine after exposure to the coronavirus. In about 24 hours, more than 10,000 workers signed the petition, according to David Levin, an organizer with Teamsters for a Democratic Union, which helped coordinate the petition.

On Wednesday, UPS agreed to give people 10 paid days to stay home if they or their members of their immediate family received a coronavirus diagnosis or if they needed to quarantine themselves.

But Fen Davidson, who identifies as nonbinary and works at the same UPS hub in Tucson as Mr. Duarte, said there was still pressure to come in.

This week, Mr. Davidson said, a supervisor told them that taking too many sick days could cost them their job. “They don’t want people faking sick, I guess, but what they are doing is creating a climate of fear,” said Mr. Davidson, 33.

One of the workers nearby on the conveyor belt line has been complaining of body aches.

“He has been coughing all week,” Mr. Davidson said. “But he can’t afford to lose this job.”

The New York Times is making it's coronavirus information available without going through the firewall.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:23 AM

"Novel corona" [sic] doesn't generally "kill." The vast majority of deaths are caused by the virus in cahoots with other serious medical conditions, and the death rate, admittedly proving difficult to pin down, always represents a small minority of infections.

A considerable majority of common cold infections may be put down to rhinoviruses, possibly most. Human coronaviruses cause a minority of colds. A number of other virus types can also cause colds. Comment is free but facts are sacred (and easily accessible).

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:05 AM

I am still meeting Trumpists who believe this really is all a hoax. They are persuadable only to a halfway point but not a behavior change. More Democrats are in isolation than republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 11:01 AM

Yes Steve rhino virus does cause some colds.
How does novel Corona kill? Xrays show cotton like areas in the lungs that resemble end stage tuberculosous. The unique pnumonia is brought about by a cytokine storm which floods the lungs suffocating its victim.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 10:05 AM

For heaven's sake, can you not take this personal vendetta elsewhere before you close yet another thread? We all know you don't like Steve. Or Jim. Or me for that matter. Well, not many people like you either, Iains, but we don't go all out to shut down the threads you post to. We are all in this together. The government of the day will always get criticised. Grow up and get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 09:53 AM

I think the real explanation for the Chinese figures flattening is that when they say lockdown it is both an edict and strictly enforced.
Elsewhere it is being treated as playtime.
The next few weeks will show the error of their ways by way of increasing rates of infection and no levelling off. Numbers doubling every 4 to 6 days become un-manageable within a couple of weeks.
Figures suggest critical care runs at 70% bed occupancy in the winter months. A respiratory pandemic on top in the UK will soon swamp both these and other emergency facilities. This pandemic is also taking a toll on doctors, nurses and ancillary staff further exacerbating the problems.
In a democracy response to a pandemic will always be too little too late, and then the responses endlessly criticised!
as exemplified by
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 27 Feb 20 - 10:58 AM
By all means close schools and cancel football matches in hotspots. Otherwise, give me one rational reason for the suggested panicky overreacting we are getting, even in this thread. Nice opportunistic swipe at money-spinnng events, etc. But you can bet your life that the real reason for the draconian actions of the Chinese regime is a lot more to do with ensuring that their money-spinning capitalist economy doesn't go into free all, and watch that space if the US gets a few more cases...
and
Date: 15 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM
The only people now being tested in this country are people in hospital. From here on in, stats on numbers of infected people are useless. Now excuse me as I'm off to panic buy five bananas.
and
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 18 Mar 20 - 06:23 PM

He's out of his depth, and we are well behind the curve when we look at what other EU countries are doing. The talk of herd immunity was the talk of scoundrels. Without an effective vaccine, herd immunity would be achieved by the vast majority of the population catching the disease and tens of thousands, at best, dying. The term is generally used only in the context of immunity achieved via vaccination, not via plague.
and
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 19 Mar 20 - 07:30 PM

Right.

I've watched Johnson's press conferences. I've watched him bumbling along, clearly totally out of his depth, clearly not understanding what's going on.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 09:37 AM

Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses, not coronaviruses.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:46 AM

Brits are not known to be a touchy feely culture with broad sweeping hand gestures, Italiens are.

Culturally Arabs/Persians speak to each other at about 22 inches. Americans normaly have a distance 4 or 5 feet.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:36 AM

I do not think a predacessor of Covid 19 confered a partial immunity to the Chinese. Old fashioned Corona virus is the common cold and we all have had a cold - except Bruce Willis in unbreakable.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:29 AM

I read today that Italy's population is quite elderly with a average age of 47. I don't know what China's average age is but I expect it to be quite younger. Those presenting with symptoms would have been weaker.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:25 AM

The total lockdown appears to have worked, if external experts are to be believed.

I wish you were right but that fact that their graph of deaths shows an asymptote, Italy's doesn't yet with number of deaths not dissimilar.

China has seen something similar in the past which confers a measure of immunity, that Italy hasn't, IMNSHO.

Maybe Italian culture is not as obedient, but military guns on the street! Who would argue?

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 07:11 AM

As cataclysims go this is a really gentle and fun one.
Our homes are not reduced to rubble from n earthquake, we can breathe the air until sick, unlike a mega eruption or an asteroid impact. we can drink the water which is mostly free of radiation. We can listen to music of our choice. We can gargle with Drambuie if we want and of course a spike in births will occur in 9 months.

You can even watch the disintegration of the world on TV. No need to miss a single moment of the agonizing holocaust.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:56 AM

Well Trump predicted that the virus will go away like magic abracadaver POOF

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:36 AM

Bill Gates called it in 2015 on TED.com he ain't no mug, and he warned us after the Ebola debacle in 2015.

he reckoned it would cost the world 20 trillion dollars in an outbreak. and 10 million deaths. Well the first prediction is probably understating it, let us hope his other prediction is way over the top.

But he didn't get to where he is today .............................

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 06:10 AM

Some real figures with attached critique. I suspect China's crackdown will be a salutary lesson to us all. The total lockdown appears to have worked, if external experts are to be believed. Meanwhile where Italy is today there is an unfortunate chance other European countries will follow in the nexr few weeks.


https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Countries where the rate of increase is levelling are China, N.Korea and Iran. More obedient society? or draconian controls? or willEuropean trajectories flttae.
The link has some interactive charts.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Helen
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 05:43 AM

mg, I hope your brother recovers and that you can be strong to help him and to look after yourself as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 04:44 AM

UK Gov figures update brace yourselves, stiff upper lip Brits.

BBC on Italy the graph shows Italian deaths v China and Italy is being hit much harder. I see that as showing that Chna have had previous outbreaks of a parent viruses of COVID-19 that didn't travel far. Thus there are more people who had relative immunity in the Wuhan area. And maybe there are climatic factors in the Lombardy region that favour COVID-19. We truly don't know what we are dealing with, fully.

The link shows Italy has armed military on the streets. It is war! But on the plus side we are fighting a common enemy, the self-isolation is bringing us together.
We are indeed living in interesting times.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Senoufou
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 04:16 AM

I also wish him a full recovery mg. Thinking of you. Eliza

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Iains
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 03:35 AM

mg I wish your brother a full recovery

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: mg
Date: 22 Mar 20 - 02:14 AM

it looks like my brother who is handicapped has it. helping him will be difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: New rules for the coming pandemic
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 20 - 07:12 PM

Mortality figures do mean something, if the source is reliable. China for that, anyone? Figures for numbers infected give a massive ballpark country by country, but are otherwise useless, as testing regimes are too varied and as we know that many infected people either don't know they're infected, don't want it to get out that they're infected, or can't be arsed. There's an egregious case in Bude at the moment of a very wealthy second-homeowner who has been exposed to the virus in London but who came down yesterday anyway. And was seen chatting upclose and personal to our unsuspecting postman this morning. Multiply pillocks like that by tens of thousands. It don't take many like her, does it? I chatted to our postman this morning after the incident but before I knew about it. I wonder how many other people he's chatted with today...