BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:04 PM

Frank,

You are right, there is nothing wrong with being a Socialist. Soooo, you are both wrong and right. But nobody ever called you right before, right? Left, maybe, I'm sure -- but never right!


Until now!

Love to Mary,
Art

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:56 PM

The people here who defend the unquestioned predator destruction of America and the global economy, are frauds.

The only people who could personally and rationally defend these predators would be billionaires. I assume the frauds here are not billionaires.

I know frauds, Frauds are my friends so don't take my calling you a fraud personally.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:55 PM

My comment wass about having a Socialist president----not about McCainn.

Azizzi,
That IS his name? Or are you saying that waas his name? ISS it still his name? Did he change his name? When was it his name? Didd he offfishially change his name?

At the debate tonight, who's on first?

Love,

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:52 PM

There is nothing wrong with being called a "socialist" except that it reflects badly on the accuser. The usual accuser knows nothing about socialism or liberalism except that it is a pejorative term, the kind that Palin uses in her speeches to the rabid fear-mongers.


FDR was called a "socialist" for implementing the New Deal which eventually brought the US out of the Depression.

Obama is not a pure socialist, however, because he believes in entrepreneurism and support for small business. He is not actively opposed to Wall Street but to it's excesses.

There is no pure socialism in America and hasn't been for a long time.

Norman Thomas ran on the Socialist Party long ago.

The person that posted this doesn't know anything about socialism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:47 PM

The "above poster" being the poster directly after my last post several posts back. :

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:45 PM

Pure unadulterated predatorism is the antithesis of civilization

We have let the Financial Corporations loose without so much as a single regulation to limit their predator nature.
A Casino has a hundred times more regulations than the Republican run, Democrat encouraged Financial Frankenstein corporations.

Maybe just maybe you want the fall of civilization, if so, then go ahead and throw socialism to the dogs.





dear GUEST in the land of sanity

who are you and why are you not writing from the core of your being instead of just tracing a parody of a reactionary?


PS if I did include the entire quote the graphic shape of the poem would have been distorted.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:25 PM

Wait, wait, wait...

Ummmmmm, I'm not too sure where the conflict arises, CarolC, between you and Richard... But then again I kinda just treat threads as waves and don't get too bogged down with what someone said last week or last year but...

... I think you will agree with Richard that the quote by Thomas Jefferson is very in much in line with what you are saying...

But either way, it's a good quote as is your post of 5:34...

I think both deal with what can go wrong when the markets are freed to either police themselves or...

...lookout for the general good of the country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:11 PM

*The "above poster" being the poster directly after my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:10 PM

I know the contents of my own mind. Unlike the above poster, I don't pretend to know the contents of other peoples' minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:09 PM

Quote of the Week
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'
Thomas Jefferson 1802

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 06:00 PM

From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:34 PM

As I said before, I'm not the one who doesn't get it. It's the poster who thinks they know everything, including the contents of other peoples' minds who doesn't get it.

What else do you know??

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:34 PM

Building infrastructure is in no way different than people relying on government to oversee the administration of health insurance or relying on government to regulate the financial industry, and any number of other things that government does better than private industry.

As I said before, I'm not the one who doesn't get it. It's the poster who thinks they know everything, including the contents of other peoples' minds who doesn't get it.

Here's the facts. Nobody in the world does everything for him or herself. Everybody in the world relies on other people to help them get their needs met. The only question is who is going to be relied on for that purpose. In the kind of capitalist system that this country has been utilizing for the last few decades, the focus has been on the market to perform this function. As we can see, the market is useless for some functions. It does not do a good job of providing health care, access to roads, education, keeping the peace, providing for people in their old age, and quite a few other things in which profit motive creates a conflict of interest.

The only question is how much of our needs will be met through government administered programs, and how much through the market. There is no situation in which everything can be provided by the market alone.

And this habit of the poster whose points I am addressing, of constantly making personal comments about those he/she is addressing, doesn't assist that person in making their points more effectively. That habit just makes him/her look rather clueleses and pompous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:24 PM

Bobert: ..Whadya' mean??..Sarah has been the only thing entertaining about this whole, stupid campaign!!..Even a little comic relief, if it wasn't so tragic!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:18 PM

I've been trying to figure out just what, other than George Bush and to some extent, Sarah Plain, has gone so terribly wrong with John McCain's campaign and I think this discussion has alot to do with it...

There can be no doubt that the kind of capitalism that has been practiced in the US for at least the last 30 years isn't working and herein lies Obama's strenght and McCain's weakness... Obama is younger and more open minded and John McCain is juts the opposite... Sure, McCain is running from pillar to post like a bumper car out of control looking as if he gets it but he doesn't...

See, the problems is that "change" is allready here... That is worth repeating... Change is allready here and whether people consciously accept it or not, I think that if it were put to them exactly that way that most would agree...


So given that change is allready here it's more about which guy most folks think can best work within that reality... Obama seems to inately understand that it's a matter of going with the flow and McCain is still fighting... Might of fact, that is his latest cmapiagn slogan... There's no fighting something that has allready occured...

No, I'm not promising an Obama victory but just making an observation that the tides seem to favor someone who ain't gonna spend alot of energy trying to make stuff like it used to be...

Just some thoughts from the ol' hillbilly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:15 PM

From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM

'Everybody needs assistance from the government to get going.'

Building infrastructure is NOT the same as you are alluding to. Jeez, CarolC,.I don't know what to tell you...you got your stuff all mixed up. I think you are so bent on arguing that you argue for argument's sake! Not a good way to take in information. I think it's an emotional dilemma.., you do it a lot,..sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:27 PM

The notion that capital is the fruit of labor is genuine and real in its original meaning. However it is an early 20th century sentiment. Since the evolution of Bretton Woods style fiscal manipulation, it has gradually become less clear, and the fiat of government has become the origin point of capital. THis is of course a substitute for the real thing, but since money is at the bottom a reflection of confidence in an idea, it works until that confidence erodes and crumbles. The entire credit market is built on the belief in the credit of the various parties wh generate and distribute this fiat capital.

It creates a bubble, like any Ponzi scheme, that shrinks rapidly when confidence fails and thus breaks the fiat cycle's refresh rate. At that point the economy can be expected to shrink until it approximates the level of genuine capital available, backed by real things and real people. The difference between this ground-truth confidence and the false-belief level of confidence in the bubble can be dramatic.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:22 PM

GfS is correct that a balance of capitalism and socialism is the best way to go. They are natural partners and should be able to work together quite effectively (as they presently do in most if not all western democracies). The endless diatribes that bounce back and forth between Left and Right are not helping things much, they are simply maintaining strife and distraction.

There's no reason why people should fear socialism, per se, because you MUST have some socialism to run a modern society.

There's no reason why people should fear capitalism, per se, because it remains a very effective way of enabling people to exchange thousands of different goods and services that are better not handled through socialism.

The demonization of both socialism and capitalism in popular rhetoric is not productive. It's a distraction.

To call Obama a "socialist" seems silly to me. If he's going to be an American president he will be governing a country that will continue to deal with socialism and capitalism BOTH, and there ain't no other way to do it.

He has to be both a socialist AND a capitalist if he is going to govern America.

Same goes for McCain, by the way. There's no way they can privatize everything, no matter what the politicians posture and pretend about it. Nor is there any way they can socialize everything. It will always be a combination of the two.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:19 PM

ANOTHER PEDANT ALERT: a quote is contained between quotation marks ("..."). That is why they are called quotation marks - they mark a quotation. A comment not enclosed between quotation marks may be called many things, but never a misquotation, because it is not a quotation in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:16 PM

Everybody needs assistance from the government to get going. Everybody, every day. People don't build their own roads, maintain the safety of, and direct the traffic on those roads to get to work every day. People don't provide themselves with the education they need to do the jobs that they rely on to survive. In places that don't have public education, most people are uneducated.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:08 PM

'Donuel, some folks have never heard of paraphrasing. I like it.'
Jeez, there is a big difference in misquoting and paraphrasing...but that may require an education...as in music, 'Speed, is a bi-product of accuracy!'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:51 PM

Great new word, Greg!!

Donuel, some folks have never heard of paraphrasing. I like it. Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:18 PM

To Donuel: I read your link, and unfortunately, it starts off with a misquote, "Money is the root of all evil"...that is a misquote, from Jesus who said, "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil"...huge difference!..Look it up yourself..While you're in there, check out some other stuff too..perhaps, "Love your brother, as you love yourself"..great stuff, but, alas, there is a concerted effort to minimalise it...to their peril.

Kendall: "Capitalism has failed due to its own greed. Socialism is on the horizon".

Actually, the two are at war with each other, by the power mongers. Too bad...a balance is better. What we are 'feeling' now is a power struggle for control, all by idiots, spreading their idiot-ology!!

Peace: "Yes, but in so many ways we have all been caught up in the sides and parties. There is essentially little distance between them. There have been processions of mediocre and harmful governments in the US and elsewhere."
Their is NO distance between them! It is a two headed snake, with the same purpose!..and, they are swallowing their own tail!

And to all those who think pure socialism, is the answer: Socialism did not 'found a country, or build it to be great. It comes up, AFTER,
good and decent people and families, built their country, History shows this!
The only people who need the government, and government programs, as a crutch, to get going, are people who need crutches....LAMES!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:18 PM

The only "ism" that really works is Pragmatism.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: PoppaGator
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:50 PM

"...the lunatic fundagelical right..."

Beautiful!

What a great new word, "fundagelical" ~ did you coin it, Greg? If so, someone ought to give you a prize, maybe someone in Stockholm, Sweden. ;^)

(I had to say it out loud to myself once or twice to get a correct reading and learn to pronouce it. Now it's part of my vocabulary for good!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:23 PM

"Socialism is great in theory. The only problem with it is it can be realized" a great man once said and how right I was!

And Sarah Palin is a barracuda.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: kendall
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:10 PM

No sweat Greg, I was too lazy to look up the whole quote

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

This is my illustration of money http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/money3.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

PEDANT ALERT !!
The actual Lincoln quote is:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. {First Annual Message to Congress,December 3, 1861}

and its worth quoting in its entirety (with apologies to Kendall)

This only points up how far the current Repubs have strayed from the principles the party was founded upon with their pandering to the lunatic fundagelical right & etc. and makes their constant harping on "the party of Lincoln" all the more sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: kendall
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:56 AM

This latest round of deregulation started with Ronald (the actor) Reagan. "Get the government off our backs". (and into our bedrooms)

As I understand it, McCain and Phil Gramm finished the job. They let the fox into the henhouse, and now they are saying the democrats did it. Everyone knows that democrats are for regulations (to protect the poor from the rich) and that republicans want free rein to do whatever they want in business. Those are basic facts.
Capitalism has failed. (As Li'l Abner would say, "As any fool can plainly see."

"The republican party was created to rescue the working man from the clutches of the greedy land owner." (A. Lincoln"

This crap about redistribution of the wealth is a smoke screen No one is advocating that. The rich have been screwing the poor for centuries. That's how they got rich in the first place!

When asked which is more important, labor or capital, A. Lincoln said, "Capital is the result of, and could not exist without labor. Therefore, labor is more important."

Capitalism has failed due to its own greed. Socialism is on the horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:28 AM

That's cool, Carol, but thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:06 AM

I said above poster, but I am not referring anything in the posts directly above my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 05:05 AM

I think it's not I who needs to expand. I think it's the above poster who needs expanding. I see things happening that are new and that are not a part of any old dynamic. How long it takes these new dynamics to prevail is anyone's guess, but they will prevail eventually. And it really doesn't matter how much people think they can make it happen or prevent it from happening. None of that matters. It's happening, it's going to happen, and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. At this point in history, the more people thrash about trying to impose their will on the development of humanity, the more they just shoot themselves in their own feet. This is new and it's allowing a lot of very important changes to take place.

The expansion is people recognizing the power they have themselves and using that power to create better outcomes within their own spheres of influence. I even see that happening with some of the people who have been working the hardest to retard human development for so long. Everybody is changing, whether they like it or not. Some are struggling a lot harder than others and resisting the changes, but they won't be able to do that indefinitely. They will wear themselves out trying and then they will give up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:59 AM

Sorry. There were two posts that which appeared while I was writing that deathless prose. Just thought I'd share that with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:56 AM

Yes, but in so many ways we have all been caught up in the sides and parties. There is essentially little distance between them. There have been processions of mediocre and harmful governments in the US and elsewhere. The 'common' enemies imo for all humankind are neocons and big corporations. They are rich enough to manipulate markets over long periods of time relatively speaking, and much of what governments do is at their behest and for THEIR good, not that of humankind in general. Hence, we have met the enemy . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:51 AM

CarolC, your post was dizzying. You were right, originally. It's not a matter of taste, it's a matter of perception dysfunction...same as in music, why some people block out certain kinds of music, and cannot see anything in any other form other than the one they focused on to like...get larger, expand, lower the blockages of understanding...they need you, more than you need them!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:45 AM

Can't have it both ways. Either the first vote counts or it doesn't. Which is it?

For a long time, I've been saying that the Democrats and the Republicans all work for the same people. And up until now, I believe that this was true. But at this point in history, I see a shift in those dynamics. Because of the internet and because of how the internet makes it possible for large numbers of people to make an impact with few resources, I see changes in that dynamic in this election cycle.

The whole Republican philosophy is about redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top, consolidation of power to a few at the top, and exploiting people and resources at the expense of the world and the masses. The Democrats have been guilty of some of these things, but that's not their entire philosophy. Although they haven't always been true to their core philosophy (Bill Clinton being one example), their core philosophy, when practiced, makes life better for a lot of people.

When Republicans behave in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, a lot of people suffer. When Democrats behave in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, life gets better for a lot of people. As with cigarettes, there's no good reason to have a party like the Republican party - when used as intended, people suffer. When the Democrats are behaving in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, there's a lot of good reasons to have a party like the Democratic party.

I see a big shift happening in the Democratic party right now, a shift that is created by the fact that all of our politicians know they're vulnerable right now, and the voters - in particular, the Democratic voters - are starting to hold their feet to the fire.

If Republicans hold the Republicans' feet to the fire, nothing changes, because the Republicans have been doing what their core constituency wanted. If Democrats (and non-Democrats who have voted for Democrats) hold the Democratic politicians feet to the fire, the Democratic politicians will have to start behaving in a way that is consistent with their core philosophy, and a lot of people will benefit from that.

It might not work, but it's definitely worth a try. We need a large Democratic majority in both the House and Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:40 AM

Ahh yes, that was a famous line..however, in the context I was using it,
once 'they' divide us...are we still them???? ..I'm so blown away, at all the bullshit believers in here!..they even defend themselves, as to the right and ability, to believe their lies...well, the DO have the right..but have you noticed that the most 'liberal' ones, are not very 'liberal' at all....just a bunch of stopped-up ear parrots, with absolutely no...I mean NO tolerance for another point of view???? Wow!, aren't they so hip??...open minded, and 'liberal'.....Reminds me of an old Phil Oches tune, named 'Love Me, Love Me, Love me, I'm a Liberal' Look it up online.
As for me, I'm conservative on my liberalism, and liberal on my conservatism......or something like that.....actually, I'm pretty free. Free to create, Free to understand, and free to adjust...free to move on, beyond political bondage.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 04:23 AM

Walt Kelly was the creator of Pogo, a character and in a comic strip of the same name. IMO, Kelly was an adept and bright social commentator in the course of his cartooning career. He died about 30 years ago.

The strip I alluded to is linked to below. That particular page is framed by people on occasion. I don't know whether it's a 'famous' cartoon, but it was certainly well known years back.

Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:45 AM

Umm, who was Walt Kelly?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:32 AM

Walt Kelly was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:17 AM

WMD's??? Look, they knew the Iraqis had them...they have the sales receipts! During the Iran-Iraqi war, we sold stuff to both sides..well, not 'we'...they....well, I didn't mean 'we', as in 'We the people...' Come to think of it,..are they us??..Are we them?...If not, who are we voting for?..them??..or one of 'us'..you know, 'We'......I do-o-o-n't think so-o-o-........WMD's?....oh, you meant 'Words of Mass Deception', Yeah, THEY have plenty of them!...'Vote for me'...'Vote for me'!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM

"No, we don't consider who voted the first time"

I was told that the second time did not matter so which way do you want it? Obviously both ways.

Or have you backed off of your position?

And did the bailout pass overwhelmingly like GLBA or just squeak by?

Just like the vote to go to war, Democrats want to run hide behind the Republicans because they lack courage and then later on they start calling them names and blaming everything on them if something goes wrong.

How many years before Bush took office were the blowhard Democrats beating their chests and swearing about those WMDs that Saddam had? Now they lack the moral fiber to admit they were wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:45 AM

You should request Joe Offer, to send you, or re-post a post I did on the 'Time waster' thread.....everyone here, just about peed their pants laughing, because it was so-o-o true!...About the Game, people play, on this blog(actually, a lot of blogs)..and how one accumulates points, and wins! I swear, the other musicians here, (and non musicians), were laughing to tears, and couldn't catch their breaths!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

"rabid Brown Shirt followers"

That must be the Obama truth squads:

The Obama folks have a VERY large organization, part of their Truth Squad. that is exclusively dedicated to watching for blog entries that appear anywhere that are about Sarah Palin. Once spotted, they leave nasty comments and IM others in the group to come "pile on". It's going to get worse - they attack and attempt to silence freedom of speech on a daily basis.

It's shocking to watch the Democrats morph into an organization that copies, almost verbatim, tactics straight from the National Socialism playbook. Sadly, I suspect that most people have no idea of what is going on here - most people do not recognize the signs of what is happening right here in America today. Students of history should be able to recognize these signs - they are observing a new incarnation of the NSDAP taking shape right before their eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:25 AM

I knew I liked you. Still do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:22 AM

They all are, and working for the same agenda. One uses the brain police, and the other a police state, with the brain police! Time for a real change, back to true patriotism, freedom, and liberty!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Peace
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:59 AM

IMO, they have been at the trough along with the rest of 'em. hard to find soemone who isn't tainted with supporting slave labour by buying chocolate from the Cote d'Ivoire or shoes from Thailand. The neocons have done their job well. Time to stop playing the game they want us to.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:58 AM

I thought the first time around didn't matter. That's what I've been told quite a few times by the above poster in another thread. No, we don't consider who voted the first time. We only consider who voted for or against the final bill, or so I am told. And the final bill had bipartisan support. Almost equal support in the Senate, and substantial Republican support in the House.

I'm not making apologies for the Democrats. They've done their share of terrible things. But I know which kinds of terrible things the Democrats are responsible for, and which kinds of terrible things the Republicans are responsible for. And in the case of the current economic situation in the US (and around the world), that is mostly the baby of the Republican party, and it is entirely the product of the Republican political and economic philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:16 AM

"I'm not happy with the fact that the Democrats allowed themselves to be snowed"

Who voted against it and who voted for it the fist time around?

Are you making apologies for the dumb ass Democrats and at the same time claiming they are so much better than the Republicans? That's a real hoot.

In the past two years while Republicans were warning of impending disaster and asking for reform the Democratic majority did nothing but whine and accept money from lobbyists and Wall streeters.

If not, tell me exactly what they have done.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:03 PM

Well, Miz... I donno... Troopergate, afetr Bush, ain't much of a story... We all figured that the gal had more skeltons in her closet than Carter has liver pills so I don't think there is anything that couole be found out about Ms. Sarah, including nude pics, that would have any impact on her rabid Brown Shirt followers but...

... I am concerned that the Repubs are setting up for a repeat of 2000 if they come ven close with their attacks on ACORN.... I think these attacks are worth alot more effort on defending than Ms. S's past bad behavior... Face it, her supporters are "true believin' rednecks" who won't believe anything that is founf out about her past... That's what makes true believers... They don't care about facts...

ACORN, however, is defendable... At least for now...

That's my take on it, anyway...

B~