BS: Muslim men and white girls - again

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:44 PM

Tom was Welsh
Grandfather was Scottish
Teacher was English

Don't mean they weren't Muslim: nationality isn't a necessary determinant for religious affiliation, Liz.

But of course, you knew that. Since you're possessed of omniscience.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:02 PM

The resistor code, same as the professional arrogance of High St Solicitors are things society has been at pains to stamp out.   Stereotyping by one community on another is another challenge for society.   More to the point it is pertinent to this thread.

Young giraffes living in isolation from the rest of the savanna community seeing younger female giraffes as fair game.   They need executing and the results displaying on Facebook as a deterrent!

Now if only we knew someone willing to kill them. ..

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:53 PM

What took you so long, Greg? Been poorly?

Tom was Welsh
Grandfather was Scottish
Teacher was English

Facebook is fecking wonderful, for those who have the knowledge of how to use it....

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:49 PM

You've got it all wrong, Dave.

As Liz would explain to you, most Native Americans are actually practising Muslims who have had to conceal their religious beliefs because of relentless FBI persecution.

Liz's mother's Uncle Tom, her daughter's teacher, and her best friend Jo's grandafther were all Muslim perverts lusting after white flesh.

If you paid more attention to FarceBook, this would be patently obvious to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:49 PM

"And for those who think what some evil humans are doing to Giraffes"

should read....

"And for those who think what some evil humans are doing to Giraffes IS AMUSING...."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:47 PM

For your information, I was NOT the one who brought the subject of Native Americans up.

And for those who think what some evil humans are doing to Giraffes, you can look here..and then, your Tears of Mirth will turn to Tears of Despair!

The Giraffe Murderers!

And yes, if I were out there and saw this happening, I'd steal their rifles and aim straight at these bastards, take the whole LOT out!

I'm sorry, but this kind of scum are not fit to live upon Mother Earth!

It breaks my heart to see those photos, literally breaks my heart....and these bastards also have Facebook pages where they flaunt their horrifying photos, whilst taunting the people who constantly try to get their pages removed...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:24 PM

OMG. I thought I had seen it all. But I now admit that the woman is genius. How anyone can turn an argument about Muslim men abusing white girls into a rant about Native Americans, Ecology, Giraffes and a damn good measure of look how good I am is beyond me.

Well, one thing at least. Now the thread has had the kiss of death it deserved a hundred or so posts back and it will go the way of all such. Thanks in advance for closing it, team:-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:17 PM

I learned the resistor code in the 60s.
Why did a lawyer need to learn it?

You know that there really is an issue with BPs and this specific crime.
It helps nothing to deny it.
Let's have it in the open.
The far right will seize on any concealment and use it to their ends.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:47 PM

Keith "resistor colour code" of Hertford. Pathetic really. You'll be on about spermatic absorption and purity next.

"Musket" - also pathetic really. I said nothing at all about Austin Mitchell being too left wing. Listen, dimshit - a clerk or conveyancer working for a solicitor has someone to ask when he does not know. A "licensed conveyancer" has no available source of expertise.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 02:20 PM

Jim, this is why I believe BPs to be over-represented in this crime.

All the victims who went to their MPs, Straw and Cryer.
All abused by BPs.
All the victims of those convicted in the 17 cases in the Dando report.
95% BPs.
All the hundreds of Sikh and Hindu girls who went to their own support groups .
All abused by BPs.
Barnados.
They said that ethnic groups were "over-represented"
They said there was an issue of "ethnicity" in high profile (many victim) cases.
All the 400 seen by Wilmer.
All stated that BPs were their abusers.
All the victims seen by Bindel.
The same.
All the victims in the German report.
All the same.
The victims who recorded their statements.
All the same.
All the victims in the five court cases aginst BP gangs.
Whether the gang are in the current trial are convicted or not, the victims all accuse them.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 02:12 PM

That's the spirit,was worried for a sec you might take it bad.;0

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 02:06 PM

I'm off to the crocodile pool, you and Lizzie can go shag a giraffe...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 01:26 PM

Big Al (bet its not muscle) I was wrong we would agree on nothing.Re the rep brain reread yer last 2 posts.Your the fucking problem sometimes your black,sometimes white,left,right full of shight n spite.Gods sake evolve man.This is supposed to be a folk site full of artists and dreamers instead its been infected by petty ego diseased schemers.FXX em Lizzie Cornish whoever you are, ice cream or not.Your right girl (except for the kill the bastards bit).Peaceish

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 12:46 PM

Giraffes?

Naw, fuck 'em. You can't hold a candle for every creature. Something has to give and they will do as well as any. Saw lots when on safari last year but never thought to kill them. Thanks Lizzie, you have given me a good idea.

These crimes are an issue but just as bad would be politicians pandering to and trying to please the Lizzies of this world. The thought of such views being expressed in a country where with a bit of effort she could receive some education and be capable of being rational. . It is a stain on what we try to call society.




Oh, this just in. Bridge finds a labour politician who is too left wing for his tastes.   The last time I used a solicitors for property purchase they handed my file to a conveyancer they employed to save money.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 11:00 AM

>>>Truth is, it starts very close to home....in many cases. I suppose there are phantom abductions - but that's not the generality of the problem.

Fid you know that?<<<<


Yes, I knew it. My own mother was sexually abused as a child, by her Uncle, Tom, her father's brother. Her parents would leave her with he and his wife, Elfrida, thinking she was safe with them, just down the road with family.

She told NO-ONE about it at all, until one day, she was watching a TV programme about Child Abusers. I walked in the room (we lived together, in Horrabridge, back then) and she said, very 'matter-of-factly' that she had been a victim of this herself. She was nearly 60 years old at the time. I stared at her and she then told me about Uncle Tom...I had always wondered why she appeared to hate him so much, getting so angry with her mother when she would ask her to pop something down the road to him. He was old by then, very old, but her hatred for him burned bright. I never liked him...rarely saw him.

She was always paranoid about my brother and I being left with anyone...Took me a long time to work a few things out, why I was never allowed to join things as a child..always kept close to her...She had many problems, but this affected her deeply. Her brothers knew nothing of this until I told them years later and were stunned...

Jo, my best friend's sister in law, abused by her grandfather as a child. Stunningly beautiful woman, drop-dead gorgeous, but she uses men, then throws them away, brutally so. Their family NEVER speak of what happened amongst each other..and her father gives her EVERYTHING she wants, out of guilt, for he did not believe her story, that his own father would do this. She's now in her 40s, still single, has a child though, around 3 now..the father is out of the picture. She still lives at home with her parents, who do everything for her, raise the child, indulge her every whim...She travels the world, exotic places, has everything she wants, for Daddy is VERY wealthy..Her parents are old now, but she still knows exactly how to pull their strings...The only thing she doesn't have is Peace, or Love...for that stopped way back when she was a child....

My daughter, whose teacher ended up in prison after rigging up various cameras around his classroom to take photos of his female pupils, up their skirts, down their blouses...He ended up on Suicide Watch, because he was so upset. He was the teacher my daughter trusted the most, because he was always so kind to her...One of the other teachers knew what he was doing, but he closed ranks..tried to get him to seek help instead of shouting from the rooftops....


>>>>Do you actually care about anything , or is it all just an excuse to blow a gasket?<<<<

I wish I DIDN'T fucking care in the depth I do, actually! I wish I could be like so many others and NOT GIVE A SHIT, but I care so fecking deeply that at times it keeps me awake! At times I get exhausted with typing, reading, finding out, informing! I get so down over Belo Monte, the Ecocide happening around our planet...and I want to scream and shout and yell for the WORLD, for we are literally Designing Our Own Deaths right now!

I CARE because I'm a Mother and I have two children of 26 and 18 who are going to be alive when The Shit Hits The Fan from OUR generation and those who have gone before, who were so fecking selfish, so fecking stupid, so fecking DISINTERESTED that they ALLOWED their planet to be raped and pillaged purely so they could enjoy a luxurious Life Of Stuff!!

I CARE because Native Americans come to my page to say Thank You, because it means so much to them to have people who believe in them, who don't see them in the way they have been portrayed for centuries! I CARE because many of them are REALLY HURTING, to their Souls!

I CARE because we have become so Fucked Up as a Species that we are now not only fucking up our own species on a MASSIVE scale, but we are fucking up every other species too!

There are people out there killing Giraffes just for FUN!!! There are people out there Big Game Hunting, purely so they can have their photo taken with the dead Giraffe (insert beautiful animal of your choice) and they take their CHILDREN trophy hunting too!

I CARE because today, even Sir David Attenborough has come out saying that we Humans are a Plague upon this planet!

You are angry with me because I whacked your backside over what you said on my FB page. That's your privilege, but don't make out that I don't fecking CARE because that truly pisses me off bigtime!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 10:27 AM

"I do challenge your statement"
Simple - produce your evidence to disprove all that which has been put up - you haven't even acknowledged it so far.
And you've still to explain why Jack Straw and all the rest of your "experts" were so wrong in warning that this was not a racist/cultural issue - they were your choice.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 10:03 AM

Bad day, Al?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:59 AM

If your insights into child abuse are just stuff off the internet, rather than first hand, I expect you can find all sorts of things to support your point of view.

Truth is, it starts very close to home....in many cases. I suppose there are phantom abductions - but that's not the generality of the problem.

Fid you know that?

Do you actually care about anything , or is it all just an excuse to blow a gasket?

Bum turned green yet...?

And capital punishment (and corporal punishment) are shit ideas - the resort of shits.

Lets reverse it, and turn the supporters of capital punishment over to the perverts to fondle to their hearts content.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:28 AM

Richard, Pete sung it on his "We Shall Overcome" album recorded at Carnegie Hall in 1963(?) but Tom wrote it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:24 AM

Backwoodsman, you are a gentleman. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:20 AM

ANYONE who thinks they have the Right to do this to another human being has, in my opinion, NO RIGHT to live any longer...

Bang! Kaput! Gone!



Taken from here:
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/article/sex-trafficking-rampant-in-indian-country%3B-pimps-on-prowl-for-native-girls-72621

>>>>>>>"...The life of a trafficking victim typically involves starvation, confinement, beatings, gang rape and forced drug use. They must also contend with addiction, broken bones, concussions, burns, vaginal and anal tears, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), sterility, miscarriages, forced abortions and even contagious diseases like tuberculosis, hepatitis, malaria and pneumonia. Psychological damage includes mind-body separation, disassociated ego states, shame, grief, fear, distrust, hatred of men, self-hatred, suicide and suicidal thoughts, post-traumatic stress disorder, acute anxiety, depression, insomnia, physical hyperalertness and self-loathing. Some victims suffer from traumatic bonding, a form of coercive control in which the perpetrator instills fear as well as gratitude for being allowed to live.

Intertwined with sexual trafficking are sexual abuse, drug and alcohol abuse and poverty. In a law review, Sarah Deer, a Muscogee (Creek) Nation citizen and professor at the William Mitchell School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota wrote that many women and girls are coerced into sex work—on and off reservations—by drug dealers to pay for their drugs.

This type of sexual violence targets Native women and girls due to the culture of silence in every community, the widespread poverty, and the legacy of appalling sexual violence committed by white men against Native women, says Deer....."<<<<<

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:14 AM

The Lakota craftsmen make some superb guitar and mandolin straps. Check them out:-
Lakota Leathers.Website

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM

Point taken, 999. I used to be one of the 'Hang 'em' brigade, and I'm still sometimes sufficiently outraged by an especially heinous crime to **almost** wish we still had the death penalty. But I regard executions of convicted people who are later found to be innocent far, far worse than the original offence for which they were wrongly found guilty. So I believe that the risk of an irreversible miscarriage of justice makes the death penalty a barbaric practice which no decent, civilised nation should embrace - to do so makes us no better than those we would put to death.

But that's a personal view, and I accept that others have a different opinion......that's fair enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 09:05 AM

>>>>In fact the levels of child abuse are double that of the general population amongst native Americans - that you are always banging on about as the fount of all wisdom. So you'd end up hanging your own mates.<<<<<

Yup, you're right. The level of child abuse, sex trafficking, rapes, murders and physical abuse is RAMPANT in 'Native America'.....and if you look at all these links, you'll start to understand why.

Oh...by the way, I should just point out that around 88% (did you hear that?) EIGHTY EIGHT PERCENT of abuse against Native American Women is carried out by...wait for it....by NON-Native Men.

Why? Well, The Bastards know they can get away with on the Reservations, you see, for these crimes do not come under the investigation of your friendly local police department, because non-natives cannot be prosecuted for what happens on the Reservations...

Cool, huh?

Child abuse? Yup...did you know that in some States the Child Protection Schemes get paid almost DOUBLE for Native American Children taken into custody? And that all Native American children are deemed to be 'at risk', thus making it far easier to take them away of course...And when they're taken, they don't go to extended and willing families, nor even to Native Foster Homes, or Official Native Foster specially built buildings...they go to White Families or official Foster Homes run by the White Folks, whilst the brand new Native American ones remain empty or barely filled....Read the NPR reports...

Alcohol? Yup...Did you know that the many Lakota were arrested yet again a few months back for DARING to try to STOP The Corporate Alcohol Bastards from selling MILLIONS of can of beer to the Lakota, just off Pine Ridge, in a town called White Clay, a town of barely ANY people, but one where EVERY shop sells alcohol?

Did you know alcohol is banned in Pine Ridge, for the People are DESPERATELY trying to help themselves out of the mess the White Man got them into, through Boarding Schools, Sexual Abuse, Rape, Murder, Verbal Abuse, Bullying, Genocide and...of course, not forgetting the 'Good Ol' Silent, Secret Holocaust!

And did you know that when they were arrested they loaded them in a cattle/horse truck, because they'd locked their arms together, so they drove them off like animals, breaking EVERY health and safety rule going, had them standing up in a long line in a long truck....and of course, they, the police that is, also pepper-sprayed a 10 year old boy who was standing with his Mum...

Murder? YUP! Did you know that around 600 First Nations women in Canada have been murdered or are missing? And did you know that the police and the government are doing BUGGER ALL about it??? Did you know that the People are marching to demand Justice? Did you know that the Native American MEN are marching themselves to demand Justice????

And just in case you missed it, I'll repeat this.
'Did you know that around 88% of sexual abuse against Native American women is done by NON-Native Men?"

Did you know that Native Americans themselves are starting to stand up and say "ENOUGH!" to ALL the abuse, the drinking, the depression, the suicides, the government shit, the racism, the GENOCIDE?

Did you know all of this?

Well, you do now....

And if you don't believe me, take a look...................


NPR - Native American Foster Care Scandal (several pages and videos)
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/25/141672992/native-foster-care-lost-children-shattered-families

How abusers get away with targetting Native American Women
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/13/how_abusers_get_away_with_targeting_indian_women/

Call to Action on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women in Canada
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWj0AHuJyEs

To The Indigenous Women - The 1491s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IInchmLs2wg

Men March for missing Aboriginal and Indigenous Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LuvUUY4e8M

Sexual Assault Epidemic Against Native American Women
http://www.care2.com/causes/sexual-assault-epidemic-against-native-americans-will-vawa-help.html

Stream - Al Jazeera - Justince Denied for Native American Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwt3KJqiCSY

Sex Trafficking Rampant in Indian Country; Pimps on Prowl for Native Girls
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/article/sex-trafficking-rampant-in-indian-country%3B-pimps-on-prowl-for-native-girls-72621

The Thick Dark Fog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uxtVtBhceY

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:55 AM

Damn me, I always thought that that was Pete Seeger.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:50 AM

Indeed, Backwoodsman. That is precisely why I mentioned the three men I did. Each was convicted of a capital crime and had we had a death penalty each would have been killed. Later evidence (and hard work from people who thought them not guilty of the crimes) resulted in their release because none of them had committed the crimes of which they'd been accused then convicted. I'm reminded of Paxton's song, "What Did You Learn in School Today?"


What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
I learned that policemen are my friends,
I learned that justice never ends,
I learned that murderers die for their crimes
Even if we make a mistake sometimes,
That's what I learned in school today,
That's what I learned in school.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:29 AM

Unfortunately, 999, our laws in the UK do not require 'irrefutable proof' for an accused person to be found guilty, they require that the proof be 'beyond reasonable doubt', and that has resulted in a number of cases where people have been found guilty, only for a miscarriage of justice to have been proved later. Many of the wrongly-convicted have been released and have returned to normal life.......sadly that isn't an option for the surprisingly large number who were wrongly executed.

Lock 'em up, that's what a civilised society does. Throwing the key away is an option for the most serious crimes..

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:53 AM

"Death sentance, life imprisonment, chemical castration, whatever. They are all after the event things and will not prevent crimes from happening."

I agree. However, it will prevent THAT individual from committing that crime again. In Canada we have the stories of Donald Marshall, David Milgaard and Willie Nepoose that speak loudly against the death penalty. Their cases involved mismanagement of evidence, shoddy work from the investigating police and lies from various witnesses. However, when the proof is irrefutable, I see no need to spend fifty thousand dollars a year keeping murderers or child molesters alive. Better to spend that money on the victims or their families.

I used to believe strongly that the death penalty shouldn't be used. I don't feel that way anymore. But it's a moot point because Canada abolished the death penalty in 1963--and by law in 1967.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:41 AM

Death sentance, life imprisonment, chemical castration, whatever. They are all after the event things and will not prevent crimes from happening. No-one commits a crime in the belief that they will be caught so deterants are, by and large, irrelevent. Knowledge is the key. If we can determine who is likely to commit the crime and prevent it from happening, hopefully by education, then we will be on a real winner.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:06 AM

None of that is true Don.
I admitted to being wrong about E European trafficking of kids, but I have not backtracked on anything else.

It is you not remembering what I actually said.
It is you assuming I say things that I do not because you have got me wrong.

No swerves.
No U turns.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:59 AM

""I can't believe that anybody could be so evil as to continue attempting to make the abuse of young women a race issue

No-one is Jim.
I though we had finished.
Your "byees" are so funny.""

So says the King of the back trackers. Whenever his stance is blown out of the water he comes back with "Nobody is (saying), (doing), (thinking) that".

He then goes on to say "I knew that all along, and I was the first to say it".

It won't wash! You've made more swerves and U turns than a sidewinder on a hot day.

Truly Keith you make a corkscrew look like the shortest distance between two points.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:35 AM

Good.
That is something we ALL agree on Jim.
I was only responding to Don who accused me of being dismissive about victims who were not white.

I do challenge your statement "It having been established beyond doubt that the race/religion of the criminals in these cases is of no significance whatever"

It has not.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:14 AM

"No-one is Jim."
It having been established beyond doubt that the race/religion of the criminals in these cases is of no significance whatever, you now seem to have moved on to that of their victims - how bizarre can you get?
The desire to continue to make a race issue of these cases is to use the plight of the victims as a platform for racism.
The victims were chosen because they were there, not because they fell into any particular racial or cultural category.
A rare occasion when I find myself (almost) in agreement with Akeneton.
"abuse and prostitution of young teenagers is wrong regardless of ethnicity."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:01 AM

If the Death Penalty is re-introduced - for any offence - we will have regressed as a nation. Murder is murder, no matter who carries out the act of killing, and murder by the State is just as depraved as any other killing of a human being.

Also, children who are abused are themselves already at risk of being murdered by their abuser(s), and the likelihood of them being killed in order for the abusers' identity to be protected would increase....IMHO, dramatically.

Overall, it's a crap idea. Banging the bastards up for the rest of their shitty lives is the best way to protect our children.

IMHO, YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:59 AM

"Even the idea of cartoons or literature for paedophiles makes me feel sick."

It's still true to say that these types of erotic materials (unlike videos and photographs of real children) do not exploit and cause no harm to children. I also think that they represent a useful avenue for paedophiles to - for want of a better term - find some kind of outlet for their sexuality. As a pragmatist, I'd rather these kinds of materials were readily available, fully legal (not all harmless paedophilic materials are legal) and non-stigmatised. What happen's in other people's heads is their business, I'd just rather it stay there.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:47 AM

Surely the point is not whether these gangs target white girls, Sikhs or Hindus, abuse and prostitution of young teenagers is wrong regardless of ethnicity.

The point seems to be that they do not target girls from their own ethnic background, which is in almost all cases British Pakistani
That would seem to point to a cultural aspect? Unless you think that white children....the vast majority of victims, are morally inferior?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: selby
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:31 AM

On the subject of prison sentences or not and I am not into the rights or wrong of the case merely the result that has happened in the context of this dare I say discussion.
The lady convicted in Bali of drug smuggling who has been given the death penalty her mind and I suspect a few others has been really focused. The ultimate deterrent to all reasonable human beings is unfortunately death. Will it answer the problems discussed in this thread I very much doubt it, we are dealing with bullies and thugs who prey on the weak and the term reasonable human being does not apply to them. Is there an answer I don't think so thugs and bullies have always prayed on the weak since the beginning of time, it is part of a humans make up, if you look objectively at people you can see these traits surface in various forms, I once worked for a boss in a big organisation who was a complete B*****D, he got to me so much that I turned on him, pointed out whilst i had him by the throat that his behaviour was unacceptable to me, we became good friends after that as he realised he had overstepped the mark with me, but he still bullied other people as he saw it as part of his job as being a boss, he was a lovely man when you got to know him, but the bully thug part of his make up in a certain condition surfaced
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:30 AM

Agree, CS. They need containing for life, to protect children. Somewhere such as Broadmoor. Paedophiles using erotic material is still abhorrent to me. It can be pics or photos, which of course involve abuse in front of a camera. Even the idea of cartoons or literature for paedophiles makes me feel sick. I can identify with Lizzie's anger and suggestion of the death penalty. However, (and I often find this hard to adhere to) I don't personally think one can take a life for an offence, no matter how grievous or evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:24 AM

To clarify, I don't consider consenting sexual contact between *teenage peers* to represent sexual assault and it should be de-criminalised.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:07 AM

@ Lizzie

I definitely think sentencing for serious sexual assault of children is ridiculously low. An abuser can often be out to abuse again after a couple of years (the courts place more importance on money than on children's safety). If there's no internally established sense of wrong for someone who is sexually *attracted* to children (remember that many peadophiles do not molest children, but instead use non-abusive paedophilic erotic materials like fiction and cartoons - these non-abusive peadophiles who restrain themselves, just don't make headlines) then prison is no deterrent. People who get caught abusing and are imprisoned and then released, just simply go back to do it again. I'm not in favour of death sentences (people can be wrongfully killed for one thing) but I would be in favour of actual life for serious child sex offenders, and especially repeat offenders.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:53 AM

I can't believe that anybody could be so evil as to continue attempting to make the abuse of young women a race issue

No-one is Jim.
I though we had finished.
Your "byees" are so funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:40 AM

I can't believe that anybody could be so evil as to continue attempting to make the abuse of young women a race issue after overwhelming evidence to the contrary and after the warnings by those involved in investigating these cases that it would be wrong and irresponsible to claim racial motives.
There is nothing whatever to distinguish the behaviour of this handful of criminals from that of any other sex peddlers throughout the world and from time immemorial.
This from the US 'Human and Smuggling Trafficking Center in the US
The descriptions of the methodology of acquiring women for sex is not just similar, but identical to that described in the British press.
Sick, sick, sick!!!
Jim Carroll

"HUMAN SMUGGLING AND TRAFFICKING CENTER
.......includes a civil remedy allowing trafficking victims to sue their traffickers in federal district courts Thirty states have passed legislation criminalizing human trafficking and directing law enforcement agencies to adopt training programs to enhance identification and interdiction efforts.9 If victims are identified in one of these states, arrest and prosecution of traffickers can occur at the state level. In addition, most states and local authorities have laws relating to prostitution that can be used to prosecute pimps at the state and local level.
VICTIMS - SEX TRAFFICKING
Research indicates that most victims of sexual trafficking into and within the U.S. are women and children, particularly girls under the age of 18. Currently, there are no known cases of adult men being trafficked for commercial sex acts in the U.S.; however, adult males have been victimized in labor trafficking cases. 10 A victim has to be subjected only to a form of force,
fraud. or coercion once to meet the definition of "trafficking victim" so long as that misconduct was aimed at obtaining their labor. services. or a commercial sex act. The force. fraud. Or coercion does not need to be sustained. Being a relative of the victim does not excuse trafficking activities.
While human trafficking is about exploitation and does not require the movement or transportation of the person, USC trafficking victims can often be identified in situations where the victims are moved from one location to another irrespective of distance. The movement of a victim is a common control technique used to isolate the victim; the distance may range from a
couple of miles from the victim's home to several states.
THE GROOMING PROCESS
The perpetrators of trafficking employ a "grooming process" to draw their USC victims away from their homes or to gain the trust and dependency of young victims who may have run away from home. The first step is often the development of a relationship with an older man, who the victim comes to regard as her "boyfriend". The perpetrator assesses the victim's needs (vulnerabilities) and offers flattery, material items such as money, jewelry or clothes, and/or displays other "acts of love". The adolescent female may be enticed to begin a sexual relationship with her "boyfriend". The adolescent will be encouraged to stay away from home for increasingly longer periods of time, eventually leading to her not returning home at all.
Within a short period of time, the victim is often encouraged to take a short trip with the "boyfriend" for what seems like a reasonable cause. It is often at this point that the perpetrator will try to convince the victim to prostitute herself The "boyfriend" may start the process of exploitation by introducing the victim to other groups of men and asking the victim to provide sexual favors to the men because they are his "friends". If the victim doesn't agree to do so, she will then be subjected to violence, abuse, or other coercive measures, with the objective of giving the "boyfriend" dominance and control over the victim.
By this stage, the victim may be in no position to refuse the "boyfriend's" commands and is frightened and compliant. 12 She may find herself in an unknown part of the city, or perhaps a different city all together. The victim realizes that she, her family, nor anyone else knows where she is. The victim may know the city or area they are in, but may be unable to provide family or police with their specific location if able to contact them. This element of control, exercised by the "boyfriend" and other men, reinforces the victim's vulnerability and she becomes psychologically dependent on them.
A number of other control methods will be utilized by the trafficker to control the victim.
"House Rules", which are rules for interacting with the trafticker, authorities, 'johns" and other customers, along with nightly quotas, etc., will be established and the trafficker will enforce rule violations with violence. Some victims have described being subjected to extreme physical and sexual violence, being required to commit other criminal acts, and to recruit other potential
victims. If the victim is underage, the trafficker will often provide the victim with a false name and date of birth to use if encountered by authorities.
PIMPS AND SEX TRAFFICKERS
The terms "pimp" and "trafficker" are not necessarily synonymous. Depending on the jurisdiction, a pimp may not be violating any law. A pimp can be defined as one who finds and manages clients for a prostitute and manages the women in prostitution in order to profit from their earnings. A pimp may not necessarily force a woman to stay with him in order to prostitute her. So, even if prostitution is illegal, a pimp who doesn't use force, fraud, or coercion to compel adult women to prostitute themselves would not be considered a trafficker. On the other hand, any pimp who knowingly manages a minor would be considered a trafficker. Additionally, a trafticker could be someone who knowingly profits from coerced prostitution even if he or she is not directly involved in the management of the prostitutes. For instance, a human smuggler in Guatemala would be considered a trafficker if he was knowingly bringing people to the U.S. to be trafficked, even though he would not be considered a pimp.
INDICATORS OF RISK
At the start of the grooming process, young people often exhibit behavior that can alert family, friends, and professionals that they may be at risk of being sexually exploited.
The victim may also consider themselves to be in a romantic relationship and want to please their partner and do what he says so that he won't end the relationship."
"http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/113612.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:22 AM

My posts
5 march 2011
UK's Hindu and Sikh organizations have also come in open and accused some Pakistani men of specifically targeting Hindu and Sikh girls. "This has been a serious concern for the last decade," said Hardeep Singh of Network of Sikh Organizations (NSO) while talking to TOI on Monday.

Sikhs and Hindus are annoyed that Straw had shown concern for White girls and not the Hindu and the Sikh teenage girls who have been coaxed by some Pakistani men for sex and religious conversion.

"Straw does other communities a disservice by suggesting that only white girls were targets of this predatory behaviour. We raised the issue of our girls with the previous government and the police on several occasions over the last decade. This phenomenon has been there because a minority of Islamic extremists view all 'non believers' as legitimate targets," said director NSO Inderjit Singh.

same day
Hardeep said that in 2007, The Hindu Forum of Britain claimed that hundreds of Hindu and Sikh girls had been first romantically coaxed and later intimidated and converted by Muslim men.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:01 AM

Don T.
Your earlier post which mentioned "there have been Sikh and Hindu victims" is so dismissive as to beggar belief in its obvious implication that this was almost unworthy of mention.

C.S. was the first to give it something like its true import as the origin of later abuse of white girls

It was not dismissive, it was me reporting a fact, in correction of something Akeneaton had posted.
In the 2011 thread I posted quotes from Hindu and Sikh authorities condemning the abuse of their girls by BP men, and thereafter included them in my lists of evidence.

It did not precede the abuse of white girls, it was concurrent.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 10:44 PM

Well I disagree, Lizzie. I don't believe in hurting or killing anyone.

The child sex thing is frequently associated with impoverished and dreadful upbringings - which have always been on offer in every culture. Generally the poorer, the higher the incidence of this sort of depravity.

If you taught in a poor area - you would know this first hand. Believe you me, its gets weird beyong your worst imagining.

In fact the levels of child abuse are double that of the general population amongst native Americans - that you are always banging on about as the fount of all wisdom. So you'd end up hanging your own mates.

And you can bluster til your bum turns green - you're wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:52 PM

It's difficult to disagree with you on this, Liz.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:21 PM

Musket, you get more moronic by the day. I heaped no praise on Austin Mitchell. I merely pointed out that he was left of most Labour MPs. His part in breaking the conveyancing monopoly was also moronic. I have NEVER yet picked up a file where a "licensed conveyancer" was involved without finding MANY cockups by that half-arsed semi-qualified idiot. And I'm not even a conveyancing expert.   The breaking of the monopoly was stupid, stupid, stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:37 PM

From Al: >>>>"Well Lizzie's plan would solve the unemployment problem. Whole squads of executioners working flat out to kill all yhose people.

They say Henry VIII had about seventy two thousand people executed in his reign. That would be a drop in the ocean if you killed all paedophiles, anyone who had hired a prostitue, presumably all the prostitutes, all the pimps, all the phone sex workers, all the people who phoned them..... I mean its all sex traffic.

Auswitzch would be a new standard in moderation.

Just cos you're different to these people doesn't give you the right to kill them, Lizzie."<<<<<


I said this:

>>>"Automatic death penalty for ALL paedophiles and ALL who are involved in the 'sex-trafficking' business in any way...."

And I meant it. ANYONE who is a part of sex slavery, *forcing* children, young people to have sex against their will, in order that their 'masters' can make money from their utter misery does not deserve The Right To Life in any way.

I am sick to death of excuses being made for Sociopathic Bastards who care not one single iota about what they do.

ANYONE involved in sex-trafficking, sexual slavery is shit, basically....and that includes men who use these poor slaves for a quick sexual thrill, who ogle pornograhic photos of children or who use women for sex who are, quite literally, being violated by them because this is NOT the life they wanted or ever expected....

It's way past time we started to face up to the fact that there are some VERY sick people amongst our Species and the sooner we have the guts to admit this and then do something about it, the better....because, until we do, these vile people will continue their hideous trade of innocent souls who DO have a Right To Life and a bloody DECENT life at that!


AND...we need to start asking WHY some men want to have sex with children, sometimes BABIES, in the first place...

It is NOT normal
It is NOT natural
It IS **************NOT************* ACCEPTABLE!

And as long as people say "Oh well, it's ALWAYS been this way!" then IT WILL CONTINUE!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 02:43 PM

Sure it does!!!!!
Byee

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 02:43 PM

Sure it does!!!!!
Byee