BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 01:28 PM

And the human rights enjoyed under Saddam Hussein were??

Your preferred ruler of Iraq seems to have been a great favourite of both Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International as it appears they wrote so much about him and his regime, while he was in power.

Liked the consideration he showed for the citizens of Iraq during those busy and hectic elections, he prepared the ballot papers so that they didn't have to go to the trouble of marking them, all the people REALLY HAD TO DO was turn up and be registered as having voted otherwise things would go really pear-shaped for them, their immediate families and their relations.

Source please for girls being refused or forbidden education. You do not seem to have any problem with the other Arab countries killing homosexuals then? Islam as interpreted by certain Arab sects is not renown for being the most tolerant of religions, or hadn't you latched onto that fact yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 12:32 PM

They are apparently killing homosexuals and refusing to educate young girls.....the staus of women has certainly worsened since "democracy" was planted.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 11:22 AM

Akenaton,

In Egypt the same people will be in charge as have been in charge since 1956 - The Army

Care to tell us what "Human Rights" existed in Iraq under Saddam Hussein?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 03:54 AM

Dont be silly Ron, Everyone knows the insurgents were a mixed crew, go back to the top of the thread and read it again.

Most people also knew that the Col could not win against Nato airpower.....his troops could not even fight without being bombed from 20,000 ft.

The important part is what happens next, in my view what happens in Egypt is the key and it is almost certain to be dominated by Muslim fundamentalists, through the organisation of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Soon we will have a strong Islamic axis containing Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Libya.....with many more waiting in the wings.
Why do you think the West are so hesitant to move in on Assad?

They are beginning to understand that they have been outflanked again.

Report on BBC today, that "human rights" are much worse the the new "democratic" Iraq than they were under Saddam.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:49 PM

"largest corporations on earth".    Don't you leftists ever read anything?    Or are you convinced that every rebel in Libya is also in the pay--or duped by--said corporations?    Why doesn't the idea of throwing off a tyrant's rule ever occur to you?

Especially since you leftists are such past masters at whining that the West always supports tyrants.

Now in Libya the West has aided the Libyans in toppling a tyrant.   But suddenly that's not what the brilliant minds on the Left had in mind after all.

Perhaps they are just determined to whine regardless of what the West does---they are card-carrying members of the "ain't it awful" club.    Regardless of what it is--ain't it awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM

A couple of Tweets from Matthew Chance, a CNN journalist who was one of the one's trapped in the Rixos Hotel:

mchancecnn Matthew Chance
Crisis ended when #rixos gunmen realised that #Libya outside of hotel doors was no longer Libya of old. Handed us their guns & said "sorry."


mchancecnn Matthew Chance
In the end - felt sorry for guards. All they knew was Gadhafi's regime. Took them a while to realise it had crumbled. Remarkable transition.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 03:17 PM

Teribus... you fall asleep again? YES. I say, yet again, Beth and Bea and Juan and... are having cordials and relishing the fact that the USA's Barry B'y, and that Garge fellah before him, did what they were told to do by the largest corporations on earth.

Wait until The Gulf oil spill starts washing ashore in Britain. You think THIS was a good show. You ain't seen nuthin yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:29 AM

The foreign jouranalists are now free according to this report:

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Dozens of international journalists trapped in one of Tripoli's most glittering hotels for five days walked free Wednesday, ending what some were beginning to fear was a hostage situation.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 11:19 AM

Mosques, churches, temples, whatever!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 11 - 09:52 AM

That'll build a lotta mosques.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 06:58 PM

"Do you know where your taxpayer money is?"

For those who are counting tax dollars:

Iraq "War of Liberation" = more than $1 trillion

Libya "War of Liberation" = about $1 billion

Of course Libya will take more money to rebuild the country's infrastructure but at least the Libyans have billions impounded in the States and in banks controlled by other Western powers that can be returned to the interim government.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 05:38 PM

"...perhaps gnu can tell us how great a subservient fan of BP Barack Obama is again."

I am not quite sure I understand. But, in any case, if you disagree with my hypothesis that BP and Shell and Kellogs and... control what happens... INCLUDING in the US government... good luck with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 05:20 PM

Night is falling in Tripoli. Do you know where your taxpayer money is?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 04:44 PM

More reports after the successful capture of Gadhafi's compound: click here for report!

Now someone is going to complain that the Rebels didn't sweep up after themselves.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:44 PM

Peter K-

I was being snappish and apologize.

We really shouldn't rush to judgment on how well the National Transitional Council is able to carry out all its goals. Whatever is happening in Tripoli now will not be entirely resolved for a day or two, and the details remain confusion. The broad picture is quite clear: the Rebel forces are gaining more and more control over the city.

There are also reports from other parts of the country of Gadhafi forces in rapid retreat.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

Rebels cop Gaddafi's hat: video

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 02:38 PM

Charley, "catastrophic victory" as they call it - ie victory before the rebels are sufficiently organised to avoid a power vacuum - is a problem that NATO people were aware of and warning against, as reported in The (London) Times. I can't give you a link because I am not a subsciber to the online edition.

How well organised are the rebels so far? Not at all, if their farcical atempt to detain Gadaffi's sons is anything to go by. Here's a cut-and-paste for the BBC's live internet stream a few minutes ago:

Libya's former envoy to the UN, says the rebels had two of Col Gaddafi's sons in their custody but they managed to escape. "This is a popular revolution," said Ibrahim Dabbashi, who defected from Cold Gaddafi's government in February. The rebels "don't have any training in the field of security," Associated Press quoted him as saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:08 PM

I suspect that those who believed that ordinary Libyans benefited in major ways by Gadhafi's 41 year reign will be soon confronted with information about how the oil wealth was actually distributed, largely to his family and cronies. I don't expect them to change their opinions.

And the trains may have run on time...

Someone stop me before I begin the froth at the mouth.

Looks as if there is still some serious resistance in several neighborhoods in Tripoli.

And Gadhafi is still at large.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:59 PM

Realpolitik

"As Libya edges towards a future without Muammar Gaddafi, the prospect of oil reserves are whetting the appetite of hungry industrial nations.

About 75 Chinese companies operated in Libya before the war, involving about 36,000 staff and 50 projects, according to Chinese media.

Russian companies, including oil firms Gazprom Neft and Tatneft, also had projects worth billions of dollars in Libya. Brazilian firms such as Petrobras and construction company Odebrecht were also in business there.
Italian oil company Eni led the charge back into Libya on Monday as rebels hailed the end of Muammar Gaddafi's rule and as traders watched for the return of Libyan crude to the market.

Gaddafi's fall will reopen the doors to Africa's largest oil reserves and give new players such as Qatar's national oil company and trading house Vitol the chance to compete forlucrative contracts, but rebels warned Russian and Chinese firms may be frozen out for failing to support the rebellion.

"We don't have a problem with Western countries like the Italians, French and UK companies. But we may have some political issues with Russia, China and Brazil," Abdeljalil Mayouf, information manager at Libyan rebel oil firm AGOCO, told Reuters."

The comment signals a potential setback for those countries which opposed tough sanctions on Gaddafi or pressed for more talks and would leave European and US companies to capture billions of dollars' worth of oil exploration and construction contracts in the OPEC member nation." [Reuters]

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:56 PM

I rather liked the point raised that "It was all about oil" and that BP were in control of the British and US military, now let me see the Commander-in-Chief of the latter is who again?? Oh that's right a certain Barack Hussein Obama - perhaps gnu can tell us how great a subservient fan of BP Barack Obama is again.

All the chat about what may happen in Libya:

- It might turn Islamic Fundamantalist?

- It might be anti-western?

- It might sponsor international terrorism?

- It might develop WMD for use by said terrorist organisations?

Hey harbingers of doom Libya has been all of the above for bloody years and was very successfully contained in the past and can be again.

The very least we can do is allow them the freedom to decide for themselves what they want - It certainly was never Gaddafi.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 05:09 PM

Peter-

"the rebel rabble have in fact won too soon"

Now that's a position that's really persuasive. Really, Peter, would you prefer this uncivil war to drag out for a year or more so as to "harden" the Rebels?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:31 PM

For one thing, the quicker it ends the less loss of life.

Courtesy of NATO mission creep, the rebel rabble have in fact won too soon. The NTC is nowhere near ready to run a country. Anarchy lies ahead, and continuing loss of life.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:23 AM

bobad-

Interesting reports.

I'm not expecting anyone here who has faith in Col. Gadhafi to change their minds at this point, but evidently this thread has picked up a newly (july 7, 2011) cloned troll. Just what is needed to clear the air.

No doubt the Republicans (and FOX News) will still be critical of Obama's intervention, spending $1 billion to topple Gahdafi instead of the $1 trillion that GWB spent to topple Saddam. And I feel really sorry for all those who recently invested in oil futures.

On with the end game.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:04 AM

32nd BRIGADE COMMANDER WAS SECRET OPPOSITION SUPPORTER:

Gaddafi forces of course remain, notably at major bases such as Sabha in the south, but there are unconfirmed reports that the Presidential Guard and all Government troops between Brega and Sirte have surrendered.

Many are surprised at the ease with which the Opposition coming from Zawiyah were able to travel so quickly into the western suburbs of Tripoli and to breach the crucial 32nd Brigade army base which had been charged with the defence of the capital.

However, it has emerged that the base commander, whose brother was executed by Gaddafi in an attempted coup to overthrow him in the 1980′s, had secretly defected to the Opposition.

At the crucial moment, as Opposition forces approached, he told his troops to lay down their arms and withdraw from the base. Without this there would have been a long and bloody fight.

It is also reported that the same base commander revealed the secret whereabouts of Saif Gaddafi who was hiding in a hotel in a holiday village complex in western Tripoli, thereby facilitating his arrest.

http://www.petercliffordonline.com/libya-2/

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 02:26 AM

"This is not the beginning of the end, merely the end of the beginning".......the axis continues to build nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:17 PM

Gee, Peter, sorry it didn't drag on as long as you wanted, with NATO states eventually dropping out (some by the end of September)--and the rebels therefore losing.

Just think, you could have bet me a beer too and won.   I assure you that as I told Charley, I'm quite happy to lose my bet.

For one thing, the quicker it ends the less loss of life.

But perhaps that's not of concern to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:58 PM

No way will it be over by the end of August (unfortunately).    My concern is that it looks like it has to be over by the end of September, since some NATO powers have said they will only support the campaign through September. - Ron Davies. Oh dear....

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Songwronger
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:42 PM

Under Kadafi, Moslems in north Libya were forbidden to kill blacks from south Libya. Kadafi built the most extensive irrigation network in the world for his country. He was about to provide every Libyan schoolchild with a computer.

Then the Brits and the CIA imported some al Qeada fighters into the country. Can't have nations succeeding unless they do it under the control of the World Bank. So al Qeada was brought in and the western media told us they were freedom fighters. Things went badly for the freedom fighters until the country's international funds (frozen) were turned over to them. They immediately used the funds as collateral for usurious loans from the World Bank--for the future of the people of Libya and all that. And then Hillary Clinton recognized the freedom fighters as the country's legitimate government. She gave them the keys to the Libyan embassy in Washington DC. Honest-to-god al Qeada terrorists now have an embassy (on Vigrinia Avenue, I think it is) in DC. And they're back to lynching blacks in the south, too.

Hopefully NATO will now loose its wrath on the villainous Windsor family. Bomb them out. Cut down their progeny one by one. That'll be some good sport, won't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 10:12 PM

Rebels are reported now in the central square of Tripoli, with major Gadhafi army units surrendering according to Al Jazeera: click here for report!

All sorts of rumors about Gahdafi's whereabouts. No doubt he fled to Venezuela months ago.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 07:57 PM

Thanks, Bobad,   There obviously are already some districts in Tripoli under the control of the rebels--according to al-Jazeera.    And supposedly two of Gaddafi's sons have been captured.    But even if neither of these proves correct, if the news that they have captured a huge arms depot which formerly belonged to an elite Gaddafi unit proves correct, that in itself is a giant step forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 06:03 PM

Watch history in the making live: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 06:00 PM

You're right Charley, sounds like it could be a Winter Palace type of situation.    Interesting, one of our stalwart Mucatters just recently told us 70% of the Tripoli population was still pro-Gaddafi. Of course he never did come up with any actual source, quote or evidence to back up his imaginative statement--as usual.

But it ain't over til...

And overconfidence can be very dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 05:40 PM

Muammar Gaddafi's son, Saif Al-Islam has been captured and his presidential guard surrendered.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 04:34 PM

History in the happening.

Anyone remember the Winter Palace?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:49 PM

I've been following live feeds for several hours, events are unfolding very radipdly. Here are some highlights:

"Tripoli security forces seem to have gone into meldown - they don't know if they are supposed to be supressing the citizens or protecting key sites or preventing ff entering the city and don't know which of their units remain loyal and which have switched sides or just plain melted away. Look to have been taken totally off guard while the TNC had this planned all along.

Result is patchy resistance but no cohesive action, as a result they are being overwhelmed despite all their heavy weaponry. Hopefully this will be over soon with the sheer momentum of events sweeping the last bastions of government security aside - please!"

@dovenews Libyan™ Major General #Albrani #Ashkal commandr of M'Hamed Maqrif battalion is appealing 2 the officers & soldiers 2 lay down their weapons by radio 56 seconds ago via web

@dovenews Libyan™ Major General #Albrani #Ashkal has defected on 20th May & informed #NTC but stayed with Gaddafi to help #FF41 seconds ago via web

@fieldproducer Neal Mann
Anybody listening... RT @robcrilly Fixer tells me Libyan radio is broadcasting appeals to rebels to back down.Sounds pretty desperate stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:49 PM

Here's the link to the Rebel capture of the base of the Khamis Brigade: click here for report!

News is now picking up speed.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 02:29 PM

That's great that they have taken over the Khamis Brigade's base.   It should help to even the odds on armaments.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM

TRIPOLI, Libya (AP, Aug 21) -- Libyan rebels captured a major military base that defends Moammar Gadhafi's stronghold of Tripoli as clashes and protests raged in the streets of the capital on Sunday. The tide of the 6-month-old civil war appeared to be turning quickly against the leader of more than four decades. As Associated Press reporter with the rebels rapidly advancing toward Tripoli saw them take over the base of the Khamis Brigade, 16 miles west of the capital. After a brief gunbattle, Gadhafi's forces fled what was once a major symbol of the regime's power. Gadhafi's 27-year-old son Khamis commands the 32nd Brigade, also known simply as the Khamis Brigade, one of the best trained and equipped units in the Libyan military. Inside the base, hundreds of rebels cheered wildly and danced, raising the rebel flag on the front gate of a large, gray wall enclosing the compound. They seized large stores of weapons, driving away with truckloads of whatever arms they could get their hands on. One of the rebels carried off a tube of grenades, while another carted off two mortars. Ahmed al-Ajdal, 27, a fighter from Tripoli, was loading up a truck with ammunition. "This is the wealth of the Libyan people that he was using against us", he said, pointing to his haul. "Now we will use it against him and any other dictator who goes against the Libyan people".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:58 AM

Not much time now to say anything.    But the rebels are "euphoric", I've read.    That's a dangerous state--easy to get overconfident.

To minimize loss of life, I don't see why they just don't blanket Tripoli with leaflets telling the inhabitants it is cut off from fuel and other supplies, put pressure on the Gaddafi regime to let anybody who wants to flee the city, and only after everybody is gone who wants to go, then attack.    The rebels are still not as well armed as Gaddafi's forces and the "cells" in the city are risking brutal retaliation if they rise up and are not able to link up with the rebels attacking from outside the city.

And NATO certainly can't treat Tripoli as Berlin was treated in 1945--until anybody who wants to leave is gone.

And for good measure, my suggestion of months ago to put a $10 million price on Gaddafi's head would still be an excellent move---and might still avoid huge casualties.

But a premature attack on Tripoli by the rebels would be a hideous tragedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:48 AM

The stated intent of the NTC is to hold free and fair elections. Hopefully their future governance will be decided by the people of Libya.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:06 AM

There's nothing to gloat about here, as far as I'm concerned, but all reports indicate that Gadhafi's days are numbered small. Good rid-dens!

And I don't doubt that the major international oil companies -- European, those in the States, and China of course -- are rubbing their hands in glee.

But one can't predict whether the more democratic elements in the NTC will retain control or whether control will be seized by the "Islamic fundamentalists" or some dominant tribal entity or some general from Fairfax, Virginia. I don't think the former royal family will be invited back. Any betters out there?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 08:01 AM

Is endgame at hand?

From Al Jazeera:

"The zero hour has started. The rebels in Tripoli have risen up," said Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, vice-chairman of the NTC, in the eastern city of Benghazi.

"There is co-ordination with the rebels in Tripoli. This was a pre-set plan. They've been preparing for a while. There's co-ordination with the rebels approaching from the east, west and south," he said.

Ghoga said NATO warplanes were launching raids to distract Gaddafi's forces.

"The next hours are crucial. Many of their (pro-Gaddafi) brigades and their commanders have fled." He added.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:56 PM

Ron... proof? Read a newspaper. Watch the TV. Listen to the radio. March in protests.

Oh, yeah. Cover yer ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:36 PM

From Al Jazeera

"Multiple blasts and gunfire' in Tripoli
Sustained gunfire and thuds were heard as witnesses reported fighting in some neighbourhoods of the Libyan capital.
Last Modified: 20 Aug 2011 20:30
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Multiple explosions rocked Tripoli on Saturday night and repeated anti-aircraft fire was seen streaking across the sky, a Reuters news agency reporter in the city said as witnesses reported fighting in some neighbourhoods of the Libyan capital.

Crowds of opponents of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi were in the streets and gunfire could be heard from multiple locations, two residents told Reuters.

Sustained gunfire and thuds were heard in the distance and residents of Tajoura, on Tripoli's eastern outskirts, reported clashes were under way.

Tripoli residents said fighting had also broken out in the eastern neighbourhoods of Soug Jomaa and Arada.

Gunfire erupted in central Tripoli after the break of the dawn-to-dusk fast of Ramadan.

Tripoli residents also received mobile phone text messages urging them to "go out into the streets to eliminate agents with weapons".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 12:12 PM

There is obvious evidence that can be established by just looking at the solutions.
In Egypt, today, the big mistake was to hand over the country to the military who are incapable of governing in a democracy. The Egyptian people are still fighting for their rights.

Bombing Gadaffi or Tripoli will ensure that some ruler will come in and replace the present administration with something equally tyrannical. Tell me how well this bombing campaign has worked in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq?

In the meantime Assad slaughters his people. Saudi Arabia imprisons their people.
Bahrain on the verge of civil war between Sunni and Shia. Egypt fighting for its political life.

Here's a thought. Why not strengthen the role of the World Court, the Hague and the positive side of the UN to deal with this problem by stopping the support of bombing campaigns here in the US, by supporting institutions that encourage peaceful rather than military solutions? What happens when the Commander-in-Chief becomes the Conqueror-in-Chief?

The Republicans seem to want to extend the military budget with the notable exception of Ron Paul. This is the one and only area in which I can agree with him.

Let's see, WWI was supposed to be the war to end all wars. How's that working out for ya'?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 11:07 PM

As I've noted before, no wonder folkies' grasp of strategic thinking is so admired in the wider world.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 11:01 PM

"if anybody thinks BP doesn't control" the US and UK militaries....

So now we have the classic leftist paranoid theory.    This must be Mudcat.

Gee, all we need is some actual evidence.    But making knowing--but amazingly sloppy---generalizations is so much more fun.

And some of the usual suspects can pat each other on the back, telling each other how brilliant they are.

Blissfully free from any need to actually provide an iota of proof.   

Situation normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 08:22 PM

Yup. Well said, Ake.

But in the minds of those intent on total domination of either a conversation or a general political climate, all disagreement with their chosen point of view is considered intolerable...contemptible...evil...worthy of ridicule and every form of destructive personal attack upon the speaker. Beware of such people. It is as Caesar said of Cassius, they are lean and hungry men, and their intentions toward you are quite merciless...unless, of course, you agree with them on every single point.

Such angry men have made this forum, frankly, simply not worth wasting much of one's time on when it comes to discussing things like politics. Or religion. Or anything else that they have decided to make into their own personal hobby horse of hatred, summary judgement, and self-righteous fury.

And having said that...I shall vanish once more to other much more pleasant things I could be doing and avoid undesired contact with said lean and hungry men.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 05:07 PM

Why do you hate to agree with me gnu?
I'm happy that we see eye to eye on some things and not on others.
Makes for interesting discussions, it would be really boring here if everyone agreed.....no?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 04:04 PM

ake... I hate to say this... I agree with you. Fact is, and I have said it before, BP was just setting up ops in Libya and Quackdaddy got uppity so they threw cruise missiles around like nerf balls at a kidddy Bday party. If anyone thinks BP doesn't control the Brit and Yank military, well...