True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:20 PM

I didn't keept a recotd as such, VT, but the family recounts many things my daughter came up with.

She has a cousin who is 5 months older than she. My daughter was/is much more outgoing and confident than her cousin.

At one family gathering, the two 4 year old kids were trying to make their way through the thicket of adult legs.

Cousin, timidly: Excuse me.
And again, Excuse me. And again, Excuse me
Daughter, leans forward, says loudly: Excuse her!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:14 AM

ebbie - that little gem needs to be recorded for posterity. precious. do you keep a journal of family milestones?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:05 AM

Mmm, open-minded as I am, that particular noise didn't provoke much in the way of joy for me. Though his band seemed to dig it. I like other stuff that's up on YouTube, in fact I think you've posted a couple of them before. It's good to listen to him philosophising too.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:27 PM

Speaking of mortals, when she was about 9 my daughter came out of a deep silence and asked, Mommy, do royalty ever marry mortals?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:21 AM

All this time I've been thinking of the more elevated - and elusive - Ra.

I can think of no one - human, angelic, mortal, immortal or otherwise - more elevated & elusive than Sun Ra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndn0a6UBdNM

Destination unknown!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:40 PM

I am mortified, not to say, devastated.

All this time I've been thinking of the more elevated - and elusive - Ra.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:18 PM

And he had made a trumpet of his rump.

Codex Gluteo???

*

Is Sun Ra a musician? Indeed, but he left the planet back in 1993, destination unknown. Sonny is a common enough name; prior to becoming Sun Ra he was known as Herman Sonny Blount, and always Sonny to his friends and members of his Arkestra. His registered name was Le Sony'R Ra: Some call me Mr Ra, others call Mr E - you can all me Mr Mystery!

*

But if really I were king of the universe, I would first set up a jam session with Son House and Sun Ra.

Here's the next best thing - Sun Ra and Don Cherry (another of my Angelic heroes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJ5IhifJ0w

*

Lennonism? Ah yes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAodDH5EjJY

We could ever afford gyros in my dole-Q-daze; happily on the road to Kashmigiro.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:39 PM

I wonder- was/is Sun Ra a musician? Su(o)n House must have picked it up somewhere.

Makes me think- (painful) the gods and goddesses (there's that -ess again) of yore had mighty powers but other than the Sirens I don't remember that music was one of them. Not that a Siren was a
god(dess)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: GUEST,Goose Gander (striking wrong keys)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM

Make that HM-ism!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: GUEST,Goose Gander (sampling candied pecans)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:35 PM

And a working class gyro is hard to beat.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: GUEST,Goose Gander (baking yams)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

If I were king of the universe, I would command SO'P to form a working class harp band called (what else?) the Harpo Marxists.

Of course, even if that did happen the single-party cult of Lennonism would take over the local community center and outlaw heterodox prole-folk-harp stylings.

Many people think Harpo Marxist-Lennonism is a single, coherent philosophy; actually, HP-ism and L-ism are are quite different.

But if really I were king of the universe, I would first set up a jam session with Son House and Sun Ra.

House could learn that Ra a thing or two, I believe.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Whichever, Ebbie — it might help if I tell you that I don't have black mustachios, I have a white beard,

What that to do with anything? Well, the savant doesn't know but the idiot just might.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:02 PM

I think of myself more of an intuitive-idiot than an idiot-savant. My heroes are Harpo Marx, who made a fortune out of not speaking, and Sun Ra, who died in penury and never said a word anyone could make any sense of. Their angelic beauty fills my universe.

You have to trust the people with intuition now. You see, they don't know what they're doing. The one's who do what they're doing haven't proved anything. - Le Sun Ra.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:00 PM

That Mudcat Healing Light Anathema Enema is dare I say bordering on the divine. Real avant garde folk. (that should ruffle a few definitionist's feathers)

This thread has descended to the 8 circle of orchestra where the first trumpet plays ass brass.

Along the left-hand dike they wheeled about;
But first had each one thrust his tongue between
His teeth towards their leader for a signal;

And he had made a trumpet of his rump. (Longfellow trans)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM

Is that the idiot or the savant speaking? :)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:56 PM

Ho-ho-ho! he exclaims , twirling his black mustachios knowingly

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

When it comes to 'idio-savants' I prefer to focus on the savant part. :)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:47 PM

Oh, Crow Sister, how you do hit nails on heads!!! My knowing idiocy has led me to taking powders & pills of white mercury in hopes to cure my tourette's. & — waddya know — it's fuc astonishingly working!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:37 PM

"creative people tend to be a little off the wall, don't you think?"

Ahh, but it's far worse than the more usual 'insane genius' syndrome Ebbie, you see both parties are in fact quite tragic idiot savants, with side orders of tourettes to boot (plus SO'P has a crumby cold).

(((((((HUGS)))))))) indeed, sigh...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:23 PM

Yesterday, in chatting with an interesting woman here in town (has a rare book and manuscript shop and travels all over Europe in search of rare and ancient maps) and I was telling her about this website and specifically this thread.

She said, Well, creative people tend to be a little off the wall, don't you think?

I can live with that.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM

Kewel!

It's got a perfect dark swampy feel to it. Most fitting for the imaginal/aural soul-journeyings of phlegm & choler ridden vagabonds.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:57 AM

Reverence???? I don' get no steenking reverence!!!

I have to say, though that the enema worked very well. Thank you ever so, S O'P.

     (((((((((((S O'P))))))))))))

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:34 AM

Mudcat Healing Light Enema

Okay then, myself inspired by Crow Sister's poetic turn of phrase, it struck me that this would make the perfect title of a piece of music I've been working on as part of my Blod-Monath sessions - but when I thought about it further, I realised that the title was so good it demanded a whole new piece, so this is what I've been doing for most of the day.

The first stage was a solo ante-folk improv on my violin - with a D / A drone on the Shruti box, but essentially arhythmic & non-tonal. The second stage was to pick up the underlying groove of the thing with a lo-D doromb (= Hungarian Jew's Harp) - and the third stage was to add a further instrumental improv on a very old Clarke C whistle using both conventional and extended harmonic fingering. The fourth stage was to add the drum part in emphasis of the doromb groove - this I did using a large Moroccan snared frame-drum bendir (my pigeon drum on account of the fact a pigeon once died in it) played simultaneously with a bird whistle, ankle & animal bells. The penultimate stage was to mix this to Sound Forge as a Wav file, before the final stage, which was to process the entire piece in my Tertius Auris Drone Space setting of Ableton Live in which two tracks are played pure whilst a third is subject to various soft-filters (including OhmyGod) in real time.

Earlier on in this thread our Infallible Pontiff said I assume that both of you are accomplished musicians. I must point out that I've never once thought of myself as a musician, rather a vagabondian storyteller seduced by notions of Sound Magic, Unholy Racket, Joyful Noise and No-Age Happy Wandering. In this piece my concerns are with Shamanistic Healing Beauty; a sort of Shaman Heal Thyself piece of what usually gets dismissed as self-indulgence but which is, in actual fact, about forgetting about self entirely and becoming a medium for another level of musical possibility, Tao and process.

Those who wish to hear it can do so for the next 7 days as a secure MP3 download entirely gratis via YouSendIt clicking the link below:

Mudcat Healing Light Enema

S O'P

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:11 AM

interestingly the word 'heretic' originally comes from the Greek hairetikos, meaning "able to choose" or "free choice".

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:05 AM

Interesting and rather sad that this thread seems to be much more active than its parent.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:50 AM

I LOVE this thread but I'm totally outclassed in the rudeness stakes so, for once, words fail me.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:29 AM

PS -

"Mudcat Healing Light Enema"? Now, I could see some justice in that...

More of your personal religious culture creeping in there I see?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 04:26 AM

Oh, and I don't think the pope references are fair. A person's religion, is his own business.

I really wish you'd stick to the red Voice of God announcements, PJ; it unsettles me when you appear in the flesh though you were an ordinary mortal. Anyway - nothing to do with your religion - rather the Holy Infallibility you are so evidently possessed of as supreme pontiff of Mudcat and the misplaced reverence this inspires in your flock.

And since when was religion in anyway personal? It's been political from day one - especially the heretic-murdering, Nazi-sympathising, culture crunching, mind-f***ing Holy Roman Catholic Church that's got more political blood on its hands than the rest of the b******s put together.

And still they pray for the Jews!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: GUEST,Goose Gander (smoking a pork shoulder)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:22 PM

Now what will someone think if they go searching for 'true traditional music' and come upon this?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:10 PM

"The "BS" label is far too flattering."

Indeed! Dante had 9 levels of Hell....the last one, if I remember, was frozen....perhaps that would cool off some of the rhetoric here?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:24 PM

Maybe there should be a third section for threads like this. The "BS" label is far too flattering.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:30 PM

Well, gee, I'm glad this has turned into a friendly....whatever it is.

There are no deleted posts in the other thread. I might have mistyped a number and sent a message astray, but I think all the messages missing from this thread have been moved here. The most recent one is here (click).

Oh, and I don't think the pope references are fair. A person's religion, is his own business.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:34 PM

PS - That wasn't meant to spell POO by the way.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:33 PM

Forgive the intrusion - I just came over to see if His Holiness Pope Joe I has shifted the latest deleted post on the other thread over here; doesn't look like he has. Looks like y'all having fun anyway. I was born under the sign of The Plough by the way; my moon is in Orion and my rising sign is Orion.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

CS

Are you agreeing that I am NOT a bitch or are you agreeing that I AM a bitch. ;~)

this has sure as shit got to be a thread killer. snerk

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM

Indeedy!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:34 PM

me too... and I never understood why my brother and ex-spawn of satan always called me a bitch

I mean just because I am always right and ain't afraid to say so, does not make me a bitch.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:30 PM

If you mother was an Aries, then you will understand when I say they are very fortunate I didn't let loose as I was want to...

kat - Aires all my life

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:23 PM

So you got one for Twat & Cunt but what about me?
I'm more of a "Good Time Girl" (actully one levilld at my grandmother by my great-grandmother) but I don't know if that applies.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:19 PM

VT, were you male and I were male and if it were 1790 I would call you out. :)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:02 PM

Been tempted since I saw both threads last night to say something.

I have taken advisement and as it is my duty to the good Mudcatizens to not hold back what I think, I herewith post the following in response to the form and not the content of this discussion:

This Way Angels Tread Softly

If this causes me to be viewed as one the

Cantankerous Unruly Name-calling Thin-skinned Scrappers

so be it.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:13 PM

"that what we say in the heat of the moment is who we really are."

Yep, and those are the people I trust because you take them as they are warts and all.

Though you missed my point, some people *don't* show their cards ever, and those are the ones to genuinely fear. Most of us are mid-way between.

My Mother was an Aries, she could make the house quake with her rages, but it was over ten minutes later. Scorpios on the other hand.. (sorry, thread drift)

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:00 PM

"Anyway, for my money hot-heads who speak their feelings in the moment, are oftentimes less cruel and spiteful at heart, than those who keep silence and store their anger away in private little hordes for nursing in the bitter watches of the night..." from above

You may not understand my point: that what we say in the heat of the moment is who we really are. That is the part we have to work on.

"For you to come in at this belated stage and call us prats is gratuitously malicious and negates the superior position you are attempting to take here" from above

"coming in at this late stage"? I've been reading this thing, you know. (For what it's worth, I'm not absolutely certain of the ramifications of the term "prat". To me, as an American, I take it as denoting a person who is acting in an inappropriate and silly manner.)

"words that expose the speaker as an unpleasant person" from above

I'll stand by that description only as shown by the converstion above. It does NOT mean that that is what we are stuck with forever. In a tangential aside, I remember the last time I flicked a cigarette butt into a parking lot. I suddenly thought: If I don't pick that up, who will? I was 31 years old, long past the time it reasonably should have occurred to me.

Let me spell it out: When a person, especially a man, refers to a woman's body part in order to squelch or destroy his opponent it exposes that person's contempuous mind set.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:50 PM

"Mudcat Healing Light Enema"? Now, I could see some justice in that...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:26 PM

"Hey, how about showing how nice we really are and offer some of those deeply sincere Mudcat Hugs?

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))"

Have a care SO'P or I'll call you on that and start a 'Suibhne Needs Mudcat Healing Light Enema" thread, to help purge you of your choler!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:57 PM

From the 'apologies' given above I'm not sure that either of you prats (not an Americanism.:) understands that.

Ebbie - for one thing I didn't apologize & for another you are quite wrong; Michael and I are both very pleasant people, however so flawed we might be otherwise but that goes with the territory of being human. For you to come in at this belated stage and call us prats is gratuitously malicious and negates the superior position you are attempting to take here - as did Katlaughing's shameful bastards. People who make such posts reveal themselves to be prissy, pompous and oh-so self-righteous, but that's only human too, so cool by me.

Hey, how about showing how nice we really are and offer some of those deeply sincere Mudcat Hugs?

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))

Or whatever.

Life goes on - suggest you try it.

S O'P

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:51 PM

Complete waste of bandwidth, as is most of what the UK folks excrete here.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:47 PM

"words that expose the speaker as an unpleasant person"

Anyway, for my money hot-heads who speak their feelings in the moment, are oftentimes less cruel and spiteful at heart, than those who keep silence and store their anger away in private little hordes for nursing in the bitter watches of the night...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:43 PM

Oh, come along - give over now with the schoolmarmish 'Tut-tutting' - it's been done already and the thread's moved on.

Frankly I find it jolly heartening to see the initial (brief) spat has been thoroughly resolved in such mutual good humour and friendliness - while by sorry contrast there are many other people (I've met them many times myself) who would definitely prefer to harbour bitter little grudges all their lives..

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:37 PM

Believe, Kat & Ebbie & all, my apologies are sincere. I feel far from complacent about the matter — a right prat, indeed. I hate losing my temper & always feel diminished as a consequence — reduced indeed to 'an unpleasant person'. Whether this image is permanent is not, of course, for me to judge.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:29 PM

There are certain words and expressions that are beyond the pale, words that expose the speaker as an unpleasant person I don't want to know, even when spoken under the guise and pressures of heated man talk. From the 'apologies' given above I'm not sure that either of you prats (not an Americanism.:) understands that.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:19 PM

We would pronounce it Boff, of course. Don't be such a Boff, she wd say to me. No cringing, please — leave that to Nigel — he surely didn't anagrammatise his name so ingeniously to no purpose. I too now haqve a 33 deck so can play all old vinyl. Essential. Just find textspeak useful: even Boffs like me can learn a few things from the youthful like yourself.

Seriously, tho — do you really not sense a sort of oriental tone to
some of the waulkers?

Am sending you a PM about something else mentioned above...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 12:29 PM

'B.O.F', as my wife and I wd always express it, merely a Private-Eye-ism as you well know

Indeed; you'd hoodwinked me by your use of text-speak into thinking I was dealing with a younger man. I am by inclination quite cringingly deferential to seniority, especially if they're also my social superior - though here in the Mudcat Tavern we are all, at least, equal after a fashion; holy saints, shameful bastards and all!

I thought I had that School of Scottish Studies record you mentioned a while back; turns out it was Volume 2 : Music of the Western Isles, which does contain its fair share of Waulking Songs. This was a crucial album back around 1978 when we used to listen to it back-to-back with field-recordings of Pygmy yodelling, just as we did with Gaelic Psalm singing and Albanian vocal polyphony. One night we'd be digging Peter Bellamy at The Bridge, the next Derek Bailey at Spectro Arts Centre. Anyhoo - thanks to my new USB turntable I can spin my ancient vinyl afresh: Waulking Songs, Yodelling Pygmies, Peter Bellamy, Davie Stewart, Derek Bailey, Peter Maxwell Davies & the Fires of London, Atrium Musicae de Madrid and all!

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:32 AM

Sorry about yr cold, Young Sweeney. 'B.O.F', as my wife and I wd always express it, merely a Private-Eye-ism as you well know — when I used it above, it was, as you will have recognised at the time, in the context of a 'luv·U·2' message, an endeavour to defuse what I recognised as a situation getting out of hand; it was Nigel's well-meant but ill-timed intervention that sent me over the edge as he has since recognised ··· but let's, indeed, not go over all THAT again, FF sake.

Luv & peace 2U — Michael [& thanx 4 calling me MtheMG - but I drive a Vauxhall]

& Kat — sincere & genuine apologies again from me, whatever any others may elect to express...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:21 AM

Shameful bastards.

Personally, I would never stoop so low as to be so absolute in my condemnation of anyone, Katlaughing. As I pointed out in a PM to The Pontiff yesterday (e)ven when WAV & I meet face to face (as we do from time to time) we do so with big smiles, firm handshakes... and an (unspoken) appreciation that Mudcat is a place where things do, from time to time, get out of hand. Look at all the good things written here (taking the thread as a whole) - they far outweigh the bad and yet you don't say anything about them, do you? That's the problem with the self-righteous - always looking for the bad in the world which, in proportion, isn't that much really; and compared to the really bad stuff this doesn't even register. Apologise? Not on your pompous nelly. Otherwise, I refer you to Mr Kipling above in the spirit of our sweet & common Godless humanity and wish you well.

I was born on 12 May 1932

What? And you dare call me a boring old fart! Hell, you could give me 29 years there, MtheMG. I never knew my father though, and to this day I harbour a fantasy that my mother might have slept with Chico Marx during his visit to the Sunderland Empire, but, alas it doesn't add up. Still, a man can dream, eh? Even at a Mudcat/folkie-youthful 48 I feel pretty old right now, and certainly boring as I begin my fifth week of a particularly persistently nasty cold in spite of all the rose hip tea, fresh spinach, bracing sea-side walks, lemons, etc. etc. mutter, mutter. We'll take the flatulence as given.

Meanwhile... Here, the barometer's falling & the winds blow high and cold; I batten down the hatches for another day huddled in a blanket by the fire with my mother's extensive & shamefully sensational memoirs looking for clues as to who my father might have been...

Joy to the world!

S O'P

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 11:09 PM

You have already had my apology Kat — I have apologised to the community, of which I take it all you women are a part. But if you think the delicately-nurtured must have a special one, here you are then.

Mind you, for such a delicate & sensitive lady as yourself, are not some of the words used towards the end of your post a trifle - ah - inappropriate, & somewhat undercutting of your evident indignation? 'crap'? 'bastards'? Oh, tut. Perhaps you had better join us in our putative ban [which is of course up to Joe, as too is whether this thread remains up or not].

As pure matter of fact & accuracy, my parents were married on 4 December 1930; I was born on 12 May 1932. Work out facts as to my legitimacy for yourself.

Still ··· apology again. Laugh on - Michael

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:29 PM

As far as I am concerned, THIS is ME and every other woman on Mudcat, who expects an apology. I also think you should be banned, at least temporarily. This kind of crap does not belong on Mudcat and I am appalled it has been left up. Shameful bastards.

kat

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:56 PM

Many thanks, Spleen. See my PM.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:48 PM

Shit! MtheGM and SO'P, I love you two fellers! Best thread on Mudcat in ages...

Please let me buy you both a pint in the same pub at the same time at your convenience.

I feel as if I owe you.

SplCr

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:35 PM

I'm not blaming you, nor yet do I harbour any grudge; these things happen. Much Respect meanwhile; no apology necessary & none forthcoming - either to you or the so-called community; we have had our fun & they have been entertained.

Yours in Human brotherhood, love, & fallibility. S O'P ----

Yay. Carry on Kipling the whilst — one of those writers with that infallible knack of hitting nails on heads. Uncomplacent, imperfect Human brotherhood & love right back to you. Oh, & fallibility too -

Michael

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:19 PM

Yo, MtheGM - I suggest you read the above chronology & see just what happened here! I'm not blaming you, nor yet do I harbour any grudge; these things happen. Much Respect meanwhile; no apology necessary & none forthcoming - either to you or the so-called community; we have had our fun & they have been entertained.

Yours in Human brotherhood, love, & fallibility.

S O'P

I do not look for holy saints to guide me on my way,
Or male and female devilkins to lead my feet astray.
If these are added, I rejoice---if not, I shall not mind,
So long as I have leave and choice to meet my fellow-kind.
For as we come and as we go (and deadly-soon go we!)
The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!

Thus I will honour pious men whose virtue shines so bright
(Though none are more amazed than I when I by chance do right),
And I will pity foolish men for woe their sins have bred
(Though ninety-nine per cent. of mine I brought on my own head).
And, Amorite or Eremite, or General Averagee,
The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!

And when they bore me overmuch, I will not shake mine ears,
Recalling many thousand such whom I have bored to tears.
And when they labour to impress, I will not doubt nor scoff;
Since I myself have done no less and---sometimes pulled it off.
Yea, as we are and we are not, and we pretend to be,
The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!

And when they work me random wrong, as oftentimes hath been,
I will not cherish hate too long (my hands are none too clean).
And when they do me random good I will not feign surprise.
No more than those whom I have cheered with wayside charities.
But, as we give and as we take---whate'er our takings be---
The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!

But when I meet with frantic folk who sinfully declare
There is no pardon for their sin, the same I will not spare
Till I have proved that Heaven and Hell which in our hearts we have
Show nothing irredeemable on either side of the grave.
For as we live and as we die---if utter Death there be---
The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!

Deliver me from every pride---the Middle, High, and Low---
That bars me from a brother's side, whatever pride he show.
And purge me from all heresies of thought and speech and pen
That bid me judge him otherwise than I am judged. Amen!
That I may sing of Crowd or King or road-borne company,
That I may labour in my day, vocation and degree,
To prove the same in deed and name, and hold unshakenly
(Where'er I go, whate'er I know, whoe'er my neighbor be)
This single faith in Life and Death and to Eternity:
``The people, Lord, Thy people, are good enough for me!''

Rudyard Kipling.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Smokey.
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:08 PM

For what it's worth, I thought S O'P was talking perfect sense and contributing usefully to what was an interesting discussion.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 02:43 PM

Apologise as soon as asked, Joe — insofar as responsible: simply pointing out meanwhile, however, that the provocations of 'turd', 'fuckwit retard', 'mutual jerkings-off in sandpit,' 'peehole full of sand', all preceded any actual explicit linguistic impropriety on my part — their trigger having avowedly been no more than my slightly sarcastic adducement of Bach as folk musician, so far as I could [or still can] see.

Apologies to S O'P likewise as well as to 'the community', who will be the judges of what is appropriate & called for. I hate losing my temper & always feel regretful afterwards. I hope a reciprocal gesture may proceed from him.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 02:22 PM

Whatever.
I drew the line as best I could.
Both of you have posted a good amount of valuable information at Mudcat, and I assume that both of you are accomplished musicians. But this exchange was inexcusable, and both of you owe this community an apology.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music-uncivilized annex
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 01:43 PM

A lot babies thrown out with the bathwater here. Ho hum.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM

I've just had an audience with Pope Joe who's decreed in his Divine Infallibility that Thou Shalt not be Too Human in Thine Discourse, hence the disappearance of much of the more - ahem - colourful aspects of this thread. PJ said he'd make this content appear elsewhere but I'm not sure where that might be or if that will include a reinstatement of MtheGM's posts from this morning which were deleted without explanation.

In the old Harvest Home forum certain words were asterisked soon as you wrote them - such as **** and **** and even ********. Shame Mudcat can't buy a similar programme instead of subjecting us to this incessant nannying.

Yours in Glorious Human Fallibility,

S O'P

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:48 AM

Jeez I hope none of this gets into the groundwater.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:46 AM

If you're going to slice up the thread, at least offer an explanation of your actions. If you have the Holy Power of Censorship, then simply modify the offending expletives so as not to mess up the sense of what is going on here.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

Could we have MtheGM's last post reinstated please? If you do feel the need to censure what's written here, kindly do so without messing up the integrity of the dialogue.

---

Your wish is my command, Master. Go ahead and kill each other. We won't miss either one of you.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:13 AM

some incomprehensible cunt

Your best yet, MtheGM! Keep 'em coming - as I say, the best laugh I've had in a long while - on Mudcat anyway.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:09 AM

In which I took up your challenge & rubricated the Brandenburg Concerti as folk music, that's all: which apparently was sufficient provocation for you to denounce me as "a turd" [to the explicit distress of the American OP], as a "fuckwit folkie retard, jerking [other such] off", with "a pee-hole filled with sand".

The good thing about Mudcat is that we can go through the chronology of posts and establish exactly who said what in response to whom. My response to your Brandenburg post of 23 Nov 09 - 04:51 AM (and your further little snipe at 23 Nov 09 - 05:42 AM) can be read at 23 Nov 09 - 06:12 AM, in which I calmly account why Bach's music can be thought of as being traditional. Your response? A further side-swipe at 23 Nov 09 - 06:44 AM, which I answer in good spirit & humour with my 23 Nov 09 - 07:24 AM. Your response? Another side-swipe at 23 Nov 09 - 07:52 AM.

It is only when John J openly insults me (and tells me to go somewhere else) in his 23 Nov 09 - 09:45 AM post, that I respond in kind with my retard in a sandpit post at 23 Nov 09 - 10:25 AM. At this point you wade in and question my intelligence in your upper-case heavy Voice in the Wilderness post of 23 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM, to which I respond rather wearily at 23 Nov 09 - 11:38 AM, I which I try to clarify my position. Your response? Another prat-post at 23 Nov 09 - 09:45 AM, at which point I lose patience and respond, in the spirit of your little game, with my 23 Nov 09 - 12:30 PM (Google it - you'll find a translation in the in the Urban Dictionary). This leads to my irksome turd post at 23 Nov 09 - 12:32 PM because I'd cross posted with Spleen and didn't want him to think it was meant for him.

This is the point you declare open season with a veritable barrage of insulting posts (boring old fart - 23 Nov 09 - 12:38 PM / still a fucking sight more comprehensible than the arse·over·tit pigshit you more generally post - 23 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM / I can't make heads or tails of what he thinks he is on about - 23 Nov 09 - 01:00 PM / He's ever so sensitive, you know — one has to make allowances - 23 Nov 09 - 01:19 PM). I don't make my fuckwit folkie retard post until 23 Nov 09 - 02:02 PM, which is a direct response to your preceding barrage. And still you go on - calling me Sweaty O'Pigshit in your 23 Nov 09 - 02:18 PM, and SO'C in your 23 Nov 09 - 02:27 PM - and then you come back to call me altogether too vindictive, spiteful, & altogether unpleasant in your 23 Nov 09 - 03:57 PM. Which brings us back to your 23 Nov 09 - 10:56 PM (quoted above) which prompted this.

Now, I don't know why John P and yourself took such emotive exception to me saying what I did, but if you choose to respond to civilised discussion by hurling insults around - as you both have done - then you must allow me to hurl them back. And at least have the quiet dignity to take it all in good spirit without mithering on the way you have here.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:03 AM

What makes you think so, Nigel? What put-in of yours, I should like to know? Fancy some incomprehensible cunt calling you a turd & a fuckwit & a wanker, do you, because you point out with slight sarcasm he talks bollox? Try minding your own biznis, my dear.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:56 PM

you started playing the prat at 04:51 AM ---

In which I took up your challenge & rubricated the Brandenburg Concerti as folk music, that's all: which apparently was sufficient provocation for you to denounce me as "a turd" [to the explicit distress of the American OP], as a "fuckwit folkie retard, jerking [other such] off", with "a pee-hole filled with sand". You really are a charmer, aren't you! Now oblige me by getting out of my life, which I assure you is full enough of trouble and grief without any further contribution from the like of you, Sweeney.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Smokey.
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 06:49 PM

I can't make heads or tails of what he thinks he is on about. Can anybody?(MGM)

No problem - no blinkers.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:39 PM

I doubt much thought was given to the tradition of ancient tree-thumping behind it.

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of so-called new music drew its inspiration from folk forms, primitivism, exotica & ethnomusicology - in a similar way to Cubists took fresh inspiration from tribal art. Cage drew on all sorts of ideas - he even had Joe Heaney, Seamus Ennis and Matt Molloy involved in his Roaratorio.

*

I find you altogether too vindictive, spiteful, & altogether unpleasant to engage with in any further conversation.

Awww. And we were getting along so nicely until you started playing the prat at 04:51 AM. Hell, I even took your 04:19 AM in good humour! Fact is, MtheGM - up until you started serving up your vindictive, spiteful & unpleasant bullshit this was a perfectly civilised thread.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 03:57 PM

<< Keep it coming! Best laugh in ages. >>>

No, Pibroch or whatever you are really called. I find you altogether too vindictive, spiteful, & altogether unpleasant to engage with in any further conversation. Go away & commune with yourself: about all you are fit for.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

Educational Folky Shit

Do a search for 2 Girls, 1 Cup - which seems to have permeated popular folklore to a point of near saturation but which, sadly, fails to live up to the hype however so picturesque it might be otherwise.

unpronounceably pretentious aliases

Pretentious? Moi? What's up, MtheGM? You still got sand up your pee-hole? I wonder, how long before Pope Joe puts an end to our traditional 23rd November merrymaking? For it was upon this day, in 1963, that the BBC broadcast the first ever episode of Dr Who...

Keep it coming! Best laugh in ages.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:28 PM

Gosh, I thought this interesting documentary about folk custom might be pertinent: Educational folky shit.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:27 PM

fuckwit folkie retards...jerking each other off>>>

Can't see how above extracts came to get omitted from last post - remote-moderating? Anyhow, there you are; SO'C's idea of refraining from shit-slinging...

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:18 PM

Extracts from Sweaty O'Pigshit's last post —

<<
- but no need to resort to shit-slinging.>>>


Who agrees that further comment would be superfluous?

LoL - Michael Grosvenor Myer [who sees no need whatever to hide true identity behind unpronounceably pretentious aliases..]

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Goose Gander
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:18 PM

Thank you, all, for reminding me why I no longer take part in these discussions.

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 02:02 PM

Can't we just move on and talk about traditional music without someone invoking the mythical "folk police" and declaring that it's impossible to discuss this music because no one knows what it is?

That's what this thread, generally speaking, seems to be about, before our resident fuckwit folkie retards MtheGM (who thinks Waulking Songs sound Oriental for Christ's sake) & John J started jerking each other off in the sandpit. Fact is we have the ICTM (formerly the IFMC) whose remit on Traditional Music includes folk, classical and popular musics, and, given that the opening post is obviously about a more popular form of Traditional Music then it seemed fitting to proceed in that spirit. Sorry if this has been a bit much for the Folkie Mindset to cope with - but no need to resort to shit-slinging.

However, what I'd really like to hear about, in the spirit of this thread, is the generally more level-headed John J's explorations of prog / medieval idioms. Sounds pretty cool. You weren't into uber-prog medievalists Gentle Giant at the time were you?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 01:00 PM

... and Jerry — thanks for your words of sympathy. It isn't that I don't agree with him, exactly: just that I can't make heads or tails of what he thinks he is on about. Can anybody?

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:52 PM

S e mìr na caca a th'annad >>>

Thanks btw — no idea what it means, as you clearly hoped; but still a fucking sight more comprehensible than the arse·over·tit pigshit you more generally post.

MtheIRKSOME·TURD

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:51 PM

Hmmm.. I guess there is a difference between UKers and their intensity about the definition of traditional music and us Amuricans.
We wouldn't resort to calling each other turds if we didn't agree...

Jerry

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:38 PM

than irksome turd MtheGM>>>

luv U 2 U boring·old·fart

Subject: RE: True Traditional Music
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:32 PM

Oops - not you, Spleen - rather than irksome turd MtheGM.

---

I'm not going to let you people ruin a perfectly good thread (click), so I've moved you over here, where you can say what you like to each other. I hope you kill each other off.
I also moved a few messages from people who responded to the altercation, because they no longer made sense in the original thread.
We do our best to allow free discussion, but I can't allow brawling like this to disturb the ability of other people to carry on an intelligent and interesting discussion. I am absolutely disgusted with this kind of juvenile crap. I'm reluctant to delete any discussion; but, in the future, I'm likely to transfer combative messages like these to "loony bin" threads like this one.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-