BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 04:42 PM

Kim C, I agree with your last sentence, But people on this forum do not usually reach the same level of hatemongery and the stereotyping is less calculated. Of course hatemongering and stereotyping are not mutually exclusive they usually go hand in hand.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 03:49 PM

"I'm just sad that there are people who agree with and copy his horrible little brand of mean spirited stereotyping and hatemongering."

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. There has been plenty of mean-spirited stereotyping in this forum from people who don't agree with Rush.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 03:46 PM

I may shock you all on this one, but boycott him if it your desire to do so. I boycott things that offend me.

Protesting Rush, though? That's just ridiculous. I'm not walking around protesting Tom Daschle (apples and oranges since Daschle can affect my life much more directly- the guy wields power not a microphone), Alan Colmes, or Gloria Allred. What's the point?

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:33 PM

Isn't it a merely a way of exercising freedom of speech when an individual chooses to boycott a commercial organisation for doing something they disapprove of?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:45 AM

Certainly Limbaugh's speech isn't free. It is apparantly quite expensive. I think it right that the people who disagree with him can sign the petitions to the advertisers. If Rush is costing them customers I'm sure they want to know. It think he has a right to talk. I even think he's funny in a laugh AT him, kind of way. I'm just sad that there are people who agree with and copy his horrible little brand of mean spirited stereotyping and hatemongering.


From: Troll: He certainly has their knickers in a twist, doesn't he? I guess free speech only applies when someone is saying what you want to hear.Otherwise it's "Shut him up or shut him down."

From: DougR: Yes, troll, freedom of speech works only in one direction, according to the liberal creed in the U. S. Sad, isn't it?

OK fellows tell us where you stand.
Will you please tell us now is it right to Boycott the Dixie Chicks or is wrong to Boycott Rush Limbaugh. Remember you can't have it both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:23 AM

Yes, troll, freedom of speech works only in one direction, according to the liberal creed in the U. S. Sad, isn't it?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:13 PM

He certainly has their knickers in a twist, doesn't he? I guess free speech only applies when someone is saying what you want to hear.
Otherwise it's "Shut him up or shut him down."

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:35 AM

This webpage is very apropriate to this thread. If you want to protest Rush, here's how.
Protest Rush

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:00 AM

I'm sorry to bring this thread back out, but I noticed no one had addressed McofH's question about "buying advertising".

McGrath- when someone refers to purchasing adverts for a show, it essentially means they are paying a fee to have their advertisement broadcast during a certain time slot during the broadcast of a certain show. It's pricey and there's usually a fair amount of negotiation that goes into the deal.

With a show as widely listened to as Rush's, you are definitely not going to be lucky enough to have your ad run during that time period on accident. You need to request your ad to run then, AND you'll pay a hefty price for it.


Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:05 PM

Thanks troll ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 12:55 PM

I found a pretty good use for Limbaugh: Rush Bush, Push, 2004

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 12:54 PM

So, why isn't anybody picking on Sean Hannity? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM

Nuff sed.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 11:12 PM

You misunderstand me, troll. I'm not threatening you.

Here's the deal. Claymore is one of my old boyfriends. I think it's a mistake for people who have been involved with each other like that to follow one another around taking shots at each other in a forum like this one. It can only lead to a lot of bad feelings all around. I try to stay away from things Claymore says that I remember differently, and I think it would be a good idea for Claymore to stay away from things I say that he remembers differently.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 11:00 PM

Yes, Carol. Why are you threatening me?
If it is your intent to bring up my position on the Palestinian problem and our disagreement about that, fire away.
If you want to call me heartless, stupid, inconsiderate, uncompassionate, and/or without humanity, go for it.
What on earth do you think that you could say- and furnish proof of- that would shut me up or put me in my place or whatever your threat was supposed to be for.
Your power over me and what I think OR say is ZERO. I observe the conventions and I'm polite most of the time, but don't bother to threaten me. For a threat to be effective there must be consequences and, as far as I can see, you have none.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 10:33 PM

Carol, what's with the threats?

I read somewhere the other day that Eisenhower also pronounced it the wrong way. Much as I detest the shrub, maybe he just can't help it, like some people have a speech impediment, maybe he just can't make the right sounds, seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 10:25 PM

The difference is this, troll. I don't find it amusing when people like Bush mispronounce words like nuclear. I find it annoying. So I admit to being small minded enough to care about that, but I do not find it amusing. And not only was Claymore incorrect in what he said, he was telling an untruth. You don't want to go down this road with either Claymore or me. It would be a big mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 10:20 PM

Beccy and Doug, I'm still here.
CarolC, sometimes it's hard to see the difference between criticism and ridicule. Claymore pointed out that you- in his opinion- had ridiculed someone for mispronouncing "nuclear" and you threatened to come back with a list of his transgresions.
If you did that, would that exonerate you?
It looks to me like"Ok, I did it once but you do it all the time so you are worse than me. So there!"
If my interpretation is correct, your attitude seems a little third-gradeish. If I'm wrong, well, it isn't the first time.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:53 PM

I don't know which post you are referring to, Art, but I can assure you that none of your posts to this thread have elicited any sort of response from me whatever (except the one where I asked you what you were talking about).

Are you sure you're not thinking of something that was posted by someone else in this thread? The only people I can see who responded seriously to your post were Beccy and DougR.

Enjoy your movie. What are you watching?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 08:32 PM

Carol,

I am sincerely sorry if I misread your post. I wasn't intending to advocate killing anybody though. That is definitely not me.
Time to watch a movie I think.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 07:31 PM

Art mentioned Arthur Andersen above. I got a shock last night when a show on public television mentioned them as a sponsor. Is Arthur Anderson still in business?? You'd think they'd have lost all their customers. I'll have to do some checking.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM

What does "buys advertising for" mean? Does it mean advertises on, or sells advertising space to, or gives money to help buy adverts for, or what?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 06:52 PM

Art, what are you talking about? I have not responded in any way at any time to any of your posts to this thread.

Now I'm getting criticized for supporting Rush Limbaugh? Do I have a "kick me" sign stuck to my back today or something?

I'm having a very surreal day today.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 06:39 PM

Please, CarolC, don't over-spin my above post. What I said pretty much was: Knowing he (Rush) is still there corrupting the truth is like knowing there were assholes willing to take out the twin towers"--- and kill 3,000 innocents.

I see Limbaugh's attempts to use the power of the media to DESTROY Bill Clinton --- the duly elected President of the United States --- as shameful and dastardly and destructive of fre elctions as the acts of the asshole lunatics who took those planes into the WTC. In using his world-wide megaphone to spread his venom in order to manipulate Republicans and fence-sitters into joining his crusade simply because a guy got a blowjob from a young girl, well, it was just to get Clinton impeached and only goes to prove the sorry vindictive and litigous state this nation has descended to. ----------- Then came the theft of the last election. Then came the ongoing destruction of huge civil liberty aspects of the U.S. constitution in the name of vengeful belt-tightening but is actually simply a continuation of the destruction of any remaining vestage of anything leftist, and therefore communistic, in the eyes of capitalistic interests----interests who allowed Enron and Arthue Andersen to happen while nobody gets hauled in after stealing billions of dollars. Stealing the election is a parallel theft that exhibits audacity rarely found in societies not the victims of bloody revolutions.

It is nothing more than the rising from the ashes of big time FASCISM.

Oh, you thought that died with hitler? No way! Hitler was just stupid. He fought the U.S. and the Soviet Union. That was a no win situation. He should've let the USA and Russia destroy each other in the 1940s if he'd been smart. But his ideas were lurking in the rubble piles of World War 2------and are just now raising their heads in the name of NATIONAL SECURITY while Nazis surface all around us and antisemitism is made to, unbelievably, be a viable choice in some sad circles. We've been to 1984 and back while tripping through Lewis Carroll's Looking Glass.

Limbaugh is just the glib mouthpiece. But for all his size, he's only the tip of this dangerous iceberg.

Just one guy's opinion.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM

This after Franken wrote CarolC's favorite book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot". I guess when it really counted, Franken folded...

You're skating on thin ice with this one, Claymore. Like I said, this could get messy. Think carefully about whether or not you want to continue in this vein.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM

No, Claymore, you've heard me criticize them. Big big difference.

...and - do you really want to be getting into this kind of reportage of one another's behavior in the 3D world here in the Mudcat? I have plenty of ammo of my own I can lob in your direction (inconsistancies and hypocracies and all that). It could get messy.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 04:55 PM

Ahh, I've been away too long...

CarolC: I would like to re-examine your response to Beccy at 3/11 12:14 (yours at 12:19) and remind you that I've heard you mock people who pronounce nuclear, "nucular"....

And the funniest news I heard the other day while driving in Florida was the fact that Al Franken was being offered tons of money to create an opposing radio show for the liberal media, and claimed he wouldn't do it "Because Rush reaches an audience I can't get, those who own cars and who drive to work in the morning". This after Franken wrote CarolC's favorite book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot". I guess when it really counted, Franken folded...

(And incidently, I probably have listened to Rush maybe ten minutes in my whole life... I have an extremely short drive and haunt NPR news on the way).

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 02:15 PM

You know danged well that Art didn't say Clinton should be murdered.

Art used the terrorist reference to show how disgusted he is with "Rush". It quite over the top. It is frantic hyperbole but it is patently not an accusation of murderous intent. I think once he used the phrase "human fart" he was clearly indicating that he wasn't intending to be taken literally.

You just said what you said to ridicule him. Seems like something Rush would do to me.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 09:06 AM

Arghhhhhhh! they got ART! He's now a POD PERSON!

can I have yer Martin with the eagle on it?

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 01:12 AM

Jack; splain yourself. We were both replying to Art's post. Did you read it?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 06:46 PM

Beccy! Doug! What has Limbaugh done to your brains? Stop listening to him before you minds turn completely into mush! It is not too late! Resist the dark side! Do not become "pod people"!

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 05:09 PM

Well, Beccy, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:44 PM

Well, Doug- I guess that's two of us hard-core conservatives who didn't entertain the notion of murdering Bill Clinton because of his sad little tryst in the Oval Office. Do you think it's possible that there are a couple more of us who aren't willing to commit bodily harm as punishment for perjury???

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:06 PM

With murder on our mind, Art? Come on! I heard a lot of criticizm, but I never heard anybody say Clinton should be murdered for diddling around with Monica in the Oval office pantry.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 03:52 PM

No, but they sure went after Bill and his supporters with that in mind from where I sit.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 02:42 PM

Art- Are you suggesting that because people listen to Rush Limbaugh that they are willing to kill?

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 12:09 PM

Mick: I do believe that Estrada has already appeared before the committee. I don't believe that his refusal to answer hypothetical questions is the first time this has occurred before the committee.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:27 AM

J. Marra,

If you are the J. Marra with the lovely voice who rode these musical rails with me/us in the 70s, well, hello there, kid. It has been a long old road. It's good to know we've both not yet found the end of it.---------- If you ain't her, well, never mind...

I used to listen to Rush Limburger just to know where the enemy was coming from. Then the stench of his smegma and toe cheese got so bad that I threw up every time I listened in to the old human fart spewing his hatred onto the American airwaves in the name of his kind of loyal opposition.

Knowing he is still there, though, is like knowing there are assholes willing to end their lives to take down the World Trade Center towers while causing 3,000 innocents to die.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 10:08 AM

Ax Etymology

This article says "ax" can be heard in the speech of New Englanders! That's a new one on me. 'Course I haven't been up there, and wouldn't know. It is used pretty commonly in the South, though.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:49 AM

Geez Doug......C'mon now............

In a 1997 speech to the Federalist Society, the driving force for right-wing activism on the federal judiciary, Hatch argued that in connection with nominees with "limited paper trails," the Senate should be "more diligent and extensive in its questioning of nominees' jurisprudential views."

So what happened to that strong stance (during the Clinton administration) from the biggest honcho on the Judiciary Committee? I pray the senate debate becomes as heated as I believe it can be and it melts the rubber stamp that Orin Hatch seems to have recently found more efficient than diligent and effective questioning by the committee.

And yeah, I already wrote both of my senators even though they are both party line guys.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:18 AM

Wrong, Doug. the regular process of confirmation includes coming before the committee/Senate to answer questions. This candidate, and this White House, want to control the questions and where they are received. You, yourself said they want the questions submitted to the White House. Why should any Senator, Republican or Democrat have their questions screened? And when they object, they are vilified as being "obstructionist". More from the most dangerous White House in recent memory.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 02:04 AM

Nope, Jack, I don't think so. From what I have heard, the Democrats were invited to submit any questions they wanted answered to the White House and they were assured that Estrada would reply to them. According to what I heard on a news cast, not one question was submitted.

In fact, from all the reports I have heard and read, the Democrats on the Judicial Committee were expecting him to hypothocize on possible cases that might come before him were he confirmed. He refused to do so because the situations were only hypothetical. It is my understanding that other candidates have not been subjected to that.

I think it's purely political.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 06:27 PM

Doug I have been given to understand that he has refused to subnit himself to the regular process of confirmation. Is that so?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:32 PM

Sure, DougR. If you say so.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:13 PM

Carol C: I'm shocked! I'm ALWAYS fair and balanced! I just don't always post things you agree with that's all.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:51 PM

It's really rather simple. The Republicans want to see courts presided over by judges who share their political philosophy, and the Democrats want to see the courts presided over by judges that espouse theirs.

DougR, I think that's just about the most balanced and fair minded thing I've ever read from you.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:46 PM

Rick: Miguel Estrada is a highly qualified attorney whose nomination is supported fully by the American Bar. It is true, as someone else said on this thread, that he has not been a judge, but if that was the qualification required there probably would not be very many judges today. Chief Justice Rhenquist, was never a judge before he was appointed to the Supreme Court by Richard Nixon. I'd venture a guest that many lawyers who never served as a judge have been appointed to the federal bench.

The Democrats object to Miguel Estrada because they suspect that he is too conservative. That's the sum of it.

When his nomination was presented to the U. S. Senate for confirmation, he received more than enough votes for confirmation from Republicans and some Democrats. However, since the Democrats have been involved in a filabuster attempting to block his appointment, it took more than a majority vote to break the filabuster and confirm him. Therefore he was not confirmed at that time. I'm sure the Republicans will not abandon him for the present anyway.

It's really rather simple. The Republicans want to see courts presided over by judges who share their political philosophy, and the Democrats want to see the courts presided over by judges that espouse theirs.

If Estrada is confirmed, he will be the first Hispanic appointed to the second highest court in the land. The Democrats fear that if he is confirmed the next move by some Republican president will be to appoint him to the Supreme Court. That to them would be disastrous.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:40 PM

Yeah, Beccy! I even tolerate Spaw!

;-)

Beccy, I have not suggested that you are any sort of an ogre. I was simply telling you that I don't understand the practice of making fun of people, and I don't find it amusing.

I guess the litmus test of whether humor about other people is amusing to me or not is whether or not it belittles them or is done disparagingly. I'm not in a position to tell you whether or not you are doing those things when you do whatever it is that you find amusing. Only you can make that determination. And only you can determine whether or not it's ok to do that according to your value system.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:28 PM

Aw Beccy, Carol isn't all that bad really.....Hell, she at least tolerates my accounts of Paw, Cletus, Buford, and the Reg boys! I think Rush would tend to look down on them instead of seeing them as folks who had slipped through the cracks in The American Dream.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:24 PM

Beccy

I read the paragraph you quoted. Is it really fair to say that the reason they oppose him is that he "is not hispanic enough" Another Rush tactic is taking things out of context. Still another is associating a statement of one group with the actions of another. Do you really think that that group speaks for the US senate?

I don't think that you are a small minded bigot. I certainly didn't call you are a pig. But you do seem to be incapable of rational discussion. I blame Rush Limbaugh for that.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:14 PM

Okay, Carol... maybe I'm not saying what I mean correctly. I don't sit around saying, "What a loser- did you hear the way that moron said 'ax' instead of 'ask'?"

I use linguistic idiosyncracies in impersonations- one of my particular talents. Do you think Rich Little is cruel when he does impersonations?

I am a writer. When I look at people, I mentally register a description of their appearance. When I am telling my husband what happened during the day, or describing to him a news spot I heard, I describe their appearance in addition to the interaction so that he gets a "full color, in person" idea of what happened. An example of describing a person who I saw in the store to my husband... "A mighty heavy bleach-blonde woman with a shopping cart overflowing with hamburger, butter, and soda ran up my heels, turned and growled, 'Watch where you're goin', toothpick.'" Or maybe, "There was a tall, gangly young man stocking the shelves in the olive aisle. He obviously did not expect anyone up that aisle, because the air was thick with methane. He turned beet red from his clean-shaven, kid face to the tips of his ears." (Incidentally, both of these things really happened when I went to the store 2 hours ago...)

I'm really and truly done now... I'm not an ogre, Carol- I just like to talk about things I observe in people.
Augh- I have to go heat up my grill and steam some rice. I REALLY am shutting off the computer this time. :-)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:00 PM

One more thing.

Kim- Are you serious? That is so neat! I guess that one's out the window now. Ah, etymology!!!!!

Back to shutting off my computer, now.

:-)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:57 PM

JackTS- The words are my paraphrasing of a direct quotation from the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund. They said,

"Mr. Estrada...has not demonstrated interest in or any involvement with the organized Hispanic community or Hispanic activities of any kind."

Since I'm assuming you'll want to verify that, follow the clicky... The paragraph you want is about 1/3 of the way down on the second page of the PDF document dated January 17, 2002.

Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Now- onward and upward. Albert Einstein said that one of the biggest indicators of insanity was doing the same thing over and over... and expecting the results to change. It's awfully fun trying to convince you that I'm not a small-minded, racist pig and all, and as much as I'd love to continue this ad nauseum, I have 3 kids who need some attention and dinner.

In the words of Robert Frost, "...I have promises to keep. And miles to go before I sleep..."

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:55 PM

Public Service Announcement! The word "ax" comes from Middle English, and can be found in the writings of Chaucer. A lot of Southern folk, black AND white, say it. Centuries ago, it was proper English; somewhere along the way, it was replaced by "ask," and people who used "ax" instead were considered ill-educated.

Resume regular conversation. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:08 PM

This is a VERY interesting read: Metaphors We Ought Not Live By: Rush Limbaugh in the Age of Cognitive Science
by Tim Rohrer, Greg Johnson, Tim Adamson and Howard Lam.

Their Introduction reads:

Rush Limbaugh is one of the most influential voices on the American political scene today. While many regard his voice as polemical and bombastic, he nevertheless has a primary role in formulating the metaphors which shape much of the new Republican Congress' policies. Though many dismiss his rhetoric as simplistic and intellectually facile, he clearly taps deep into the American psyche with his visceral language. Viewed from the perspective of metaphor analysis, Limbaugh's rhetoric is brilliantly constructed in its use of culturally entrenched metaphors, which resonate with the emotional feelings of his listeners and readers. In this paper, we investigate Limbaugh's use of metaphor in his recent book, The Way Things Ought To Be.[1] We sum up by arguing that Limbaugh's metaphors cohere in his theory of human nature and a vision of a society built around the traditional nuclear family. We conclude that liberals are not yet articulating their own version of human nature and offering some initial thoughts as to what that might entail.

Their conclusion (with a LOT in between)

In short, we feel that the real challenge is to articulate a different theory of human nature. Such a theory would have to appreciate sexual difference while maintaining flexibility in gender roles; it would have to establish that compassion and teaching are inseparable; it would have to establish a view of nature that is dialogic rather than law-like; it would have to stress that negotiation and nurturance are more important skills than iron wills and denial. Liberals need to recover fatherhood without succumbing to conservative paternalism. If we look to American history, precisely a century ago the political debate was between liberalism and paternalism[3] --that might be a redefinition of the debate which would reinvigorate liberalism.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:02 PM

IMO, here is an interesting book review which contains much about Rush: click here. Here's the last paragraph:

This book should be required reading for every registered Republican. I think perhaps Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot (and Other Observations) should even be an official textbook for America's high schools and colleges. I have theory that most people start out as "knee-jerk" liberals or the conservative equivalent. These people don't truly understand issues. If they are never exposed to anything but ten-second sound-bites, they remain uninformed. But when someone comes along who adds depth to these people's knowledge on issues, they become informed and more moderate in their views. This country needs lots more informed moderates, and Al's book might be a good tool to help meet that need. What Limbaugh claims to do for "knee-jerk liberals", Al Franken does for the conservative equivalent. I highly recommend this book, especially if you want to be more informed about the political landscape and need a good laugh at the same time.

As for Limbaugh being a racist, these are direct quotes, emphasis is mine:

In the early 70's, Limbaugh once told a black caller: >B>"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?"

In 1992, on his now-defunct TV show, Limbaugh expressed his ire when Spike Lee urged that black schoolchildren get off from school to see his film Malcolm X: "Spike, if you're going to do that, let's complete the education experience. You should tell them that they should loot the theater, and then blow it up on their way out."

In a similar vein, here is Limbaugh's mocking take on the NAACP, a group with a ninety-year commitment to nonviolence: "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."

Really funny, huh?:-(

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:47 PM

You have to be able to laugh in life. Along with flexibility, it's a benchmark of mental health. End of story.

This is certainly true. But getting one's jollies out of making fun of, and at the expense of others is most definitely not a benchmark of mental health.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:38 PM

No, Beccy. I don't particularly enjoy making fun of people. I find the quirkiness of people delightful, and I enjoy their humanity, but people making fun of others just makes me sad.

Sometimes I find people annoying, but that's not a source of amusement for me.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:26 PM

Yeesh, Carol... Do you make fun of anything? Privately? Or with your hubbie or significant other? Or with your sister/brother/mother? Do you laugh at or get annoyed by, oh- say, people talking on cell phones? Or people who drive like maniacs? Or people who cut in line in the grocery store? Or people who pass gas in the library and then go to a different set of stacks? Everyone has some little quirk. Mine is that I'm a linguistically inclined people watcher. Therefore, I notice colloquialisms and linguistic ticks readily. It amuses me to discuss them. People amuse me. I am sure that I provide my share of fodder for laughter. I sure hope so! You have to be able to laugh in life. Along with flexibility, it's a benchmark of mental health. End of story.

I do my poking fun with my family. Rush does his on a microphone. Those who wish to listen do. Those who do not wish to hear it tune to something else.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:24 PM

Beccy, I have some bad news for you.

I am not a liberal. You've learned Limbaugh's definition of a liberal. To "Rush" and apparantly to you it just a label, a perjoritive to be used in arguement. By calling me that you thoroughly prove my point. Which is that Limbaugh debases debate. He labels, stereotypes and insults. He is indoctrinating others.

The "opinion" on Estrada on Limbaugh's website is racist. Rush knows, and I'm sure that you know that the Democrats in the senate are not opposing him because of his race. The way he bring race into the arguement is gratuitous and devisive. Or is it just another example of his "humour".

Beccy, Listening to both sides of a debate so that you can pick hole in the "other" side is not being open minded. Labeling someone instead of talking about the merits of their agrument is not debate.

Having a "friend" who is a "liberal" doesn't mean a person isn't close minded any more than having black friend is proof that a man is not bigotted.

I didn't say this:
"The way you insist that half of his listening audience is racist and abusive to women?"
Neither did Nicole, you did. It is a common Limbaugh tactic. Say that your "oponent" said something outraegous and argue that instead of the point.

Can you prove this? It seems like one of the racist things that Limbaugh would say. Are these you words or his?
" but Miguel Estrada doesn't count, because a nifty special interest group deemed him "Not Hispanic enough.""

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:19 PM

I don't know, Beccy. I don't find very much amusement in making fun of people's linguistic idiosyncacies, so I can't relate.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:14 PM

CarolC- Rush makes fun of linguistic idiosyncacies whatever someone's color or bent. Have you ever heard him imitate Bill Buckley? It's hilarious- and not at all flattering.

I make fun of someone saying, "Ax" instead of "ask" just as I make fun of our President saying "nucular" instead of "nuclear". I also make fun of people saying, "So don't I" instead of "so do I" in the area which I live in (and it happens to be a predominantly caucasion area.) Does that make me a racist?

My point? I don't think because Rush does a pretty good impression of Al Sharpton that he is a de facto racist.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:13 PM

This is probably (definitely) the wrong thread to discuss this Estrada guy (or the Rev. Al), so does someone want to start a civil discussion on him (them)? This hasn't really been that bad at all. I think the couple of Flamers who just come here to be silly haven't discovered us yet, way down at the bottom.

I'm already finding it's too easy to yack politics, instead of doing some work......so anyone wanna explain this Estrada to me, a poor Canadian? If I start it I'll hate myself!!

Is he REALLY right-wing? Has he been a drug dealer? (by the way, I'm a liberal who practically gags at the thought of Clinton pardoning those people.....practically makes me sick to my stomach.....so I DO always try and look at both sides of an issue.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: NicoleC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:13 PM

No, Beccy, I said that *I* meet about half and half. I also said I have no idea what the actual demographics are. I'm sorry you assumed I was referring to you in #2 -- though the folks I meet who are seemingly in category #1 are only people I meet online.

I think CarolC has hit the mark -- he's uses a verbally abusive persona on the radio and his show (unsurprisingly) attracts a lot of abusive people.

As for Estrada, why anyone would support a man who's never been a judge a single day in his life for one of the highest judicial positions in the country is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 12:04 PM

It's a funny thing about racism. I know some people who are openly and unapoligetically racist, who, nevertheless, like certain people who belong to the races they don't approve of.

One guy I know genuinely believes, and he will tell you that he believes this, that people with blond hair and blue eyes are genetically superior to everyone else. But he thinks Colin Powell is a great man. But he will also tell you that Powell has a lot of "white" genes in him, too, and it's those genes that are responsible for his greatness.

I noticed that Rush's site makes fun of Al Sharpton for pronouncing the word "ask" as "aks". That's something I've heard a lot of racists do.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM

Right-o, Kim... but Miguel Estrada doesn't count, because a nifty special interest group deemed him "Not Hispanic enough."

Hmmm... I guess you can only be a minority if you're liberal, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:47 AM

Okay, Jack- You quote where he clearly exhibited himself to be a racist. I subscribe to his website- the paid side of it. I have not seen ANYTHING that makes him a racist. Are you a racist if you think Al Sharpton is a boob?

You said,"Beccy there is no way a person can be a liberal and use these tactics. The definition of liberal, not Rush's, the real one, automatically implies open mindedness. If you want to be thoroughly indoctronated in small minded bigotry, remain a "listener to Rush".

Horsecrap. What do you call the thread you just posted? Open-minded?

You also said, "I guess, Beccy that even you will admit that this "astute observer" doesn't at all admit the possibility that his "opponents" might also be "astute" with their own point of view." Again- horsecrap. He is dear friends with Camille Paglia (who I doubt would EVER be considered ANYTHING near a conservative) and has taken her phone calls on his show several times.

Once again, I quote you: "I've often wondered why otherwise intelligent people seem to have no idea how to conduct a civil or logical discussion." What? You mean like the way you're civilly discussing the subject of Rush Limbaugh's RADIO show with me? The way you insist that half of his listening audience is racist and abusive to women? That's REALLY civil, Jack.

You say, "If you want to be thoroughly indoctronated in small minded bigotry, remain a "listener to Rush".   I suggest that if you want to remain small minded and bigoted, you continue on the path you're on where you shout down any dissenting opinion from the liberal one you hold dear.

I on the other hand, will continue listening to ALL sides of an argument without resorting to calling liberals small minded, bigoted, wife-beaters.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:39 AM

I guess he's a racist who supports Miguel Estrada. Hmm.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:03 AM

Doug it is not Limbaugh's opinions I don't like. It is his promotion of bigotry and his insipid erosion of civilized debate.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:51 AM

Yep, Jack, liberals are "open minded" about lots of things. Just not about someone holding an opinion that does not coincide with theirs.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:43 AM

Are you serious? Do you really think 50% of Rush's audience is abusive to women or racist? Do you have ANY idea how offensive that is to me as a listener of Rush?

Are YOU serious Beccy? I just spent 5 minutes on Limbaugh's website and found several examples of racism. Limbaugh is clearly a racist. He is clearly a white man who believes himsself to be superior to minorities. He is clearly an American man who believes himself to be superior to Swedes, to French people and, I am confident, to women.
But I guess you think that is OK as long as it is a "joke".

Virtually everything he says is a nasty slur against someone. I don't see what is so fucking entertaining. Its nothing but venal, mean spirited propaganda. He has an entire page dedicated to "winning" arguments about the War in Iraq. Here is the introduction to that page.

"You just can't afford to lose arguments over Iraq. Rush uses facts to make the hardcore anti-American protester and casual, confused observer alike think twice about opposing our next move in the war on terrorism."

I guess, Beccy that even you will admit that this "astute observer" doesn't at all admit the possibility that his "opponents" might also be "astute" with their own point of view. The sad thing is I've heard some of these arguments regurgitated in discussions I've had with "conservatives". I've often wondered why otherwise intelligent people seem to have no idea how to conduct a civil or logical discussion. Now I know, they are copying "Rush". "Rush" is also probably responsible for turning "liberal" into a curseword for so many people. Its much easier to disrespect people and ridicule their views once you've labeled them.

Beccy there is no way a person can be a liberal and use these tactics. The definition of liberal, not Rush's, the real one, automatically implies open mindedness. If you want to be thoroughly indoctronated in small minded bigotry, remain a "listener to Rush".

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:23 AM

I can't speak for Nicole, Beccy, but my guess is that it's not his ideology that attracts abusive people but his verbally abusive tactics. Especially his verbal abuse of women who aren't subservient to men. I once had a boyfriend who loved listening to Andrew Dice Clay. This concerned me because Andrew Dice Clay uses a lot of "humor" that is abusive to women. I figured, if my boyfriend thinks this is funny, maybe deep down, he really feels this way about women.

It turns out he was abusive. Not overtly physically abusive, but abusive nonetheless.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:46 AM

I have a vague recollection of Rush saying on the air one time, people, this is entertainment; and advising listeners not to take him too seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 09:07 AM

NicoleC- You said,"2) The kind of "conservatives" who wouldn't spit on a cross or burn a flag, but will gladly slap a mouthy woman or put a {insert racial epithet here} in their place. This group seems to think listening to Rush is somewhere between listening to the news and listening to a prophet."

Are you serious? Do you really think 50% of Rush's audience is abusive to women or racist? Do you have ANY idea how offensive that is to me as a listener of Rush?

Is it because of ideology that you think that half of those of us who listen to a radio program are jerks of the first degree? I don't think that half the liberals out there are willing to take my children away from me and have them raised by the government. Why in the world would you think something equally preposterous about the people with whom I share an habit of listening to a radio show? There are a$%holes of EVERY political bent. I see no reason to apply that epithet to half of the millions of people who listen to Rush Limbaugh on a regular basis.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:00 PM

Ya know folks, this IS the internet. If any of you are REALLY, REALLY interested in knowing if the Guitar Center sponsors Rush, why doncha send 'em an E-Mail and ask?
Personally, I don't care. There isn't a Guitar Center anywhere near me and I tend to use the local guys wherever I can.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:54 PM

Oops, sorry, Beccy! Maybe we can hold that congrats for the actual moment?:-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:41 PM

The problem I have with Buckley is that he seemed more interested in dazzling people with his clever debating tactics than in the actual substance of his argument.

Maher just gets on my nerves.

I vote for Billy Conolly!!!

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:11 PM

Sins hits the nail on the head............Limbaugh is to serious debate as Professional Wrestling is to competitive sports. Truth!

Actually that's true of almost all of these yahoos. They're "commentators" and that's all. The last person I can remember on either "side" being anywhere near skilled and understanding of debating was Bill Buckley. In his case though it was hard to listen to him or look at him without getting the impression that he was also auditioning for "The Chipmunks."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:58 PM

Don't be fooled by Rush winking at his audience! Remember the last line in "It's A Wonderful Life"..........Every time Rush winks, a fart gets it's freedom."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM

Limbaugh is to serious debate as Professional Wrestling is to ompetitive sports.

Does that help?
I do remember hearing an ad for Guitar Center on his program when I was in NYC. It surprised me when I thought of the customer base I had seen in the local Center - all rock and rap musicians (using the term loosely). At that point I was boycotting Tropicana for their Limbaugh ads.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: NicoleC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:53 PM

Bingo, Kat.

There seem to be two predominant types of Rush listeners:

1) Mainstream and often thoughtful conservatives who listen to Rush like a Hispanic listener might enjoy hearing "'Spic" humor from a fellow Latino comedian -- i.e., one of the fold, even when rude or abrasive.

2) The kind of "conservatives" who wouldn't spit on a cross or burn a flag, but will gladly slap a mouthy woman or put a {insert racial epithet here} in their place. This group seems to think listening to Rush is somewhere between listening to the news and listening to a prophet.

I couldn't guess what the actual demographics are, but I seem to meet about half and half. Plus a few liberal listeners who preplexingly seem to listen to Rush merely to work themselves up into a good angry fit. I can't stand to listen to the man myself; his voice makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck and I personally put his ranting into the potty humor/dumb blonde joke category, which I've never found the least bit amusing.

Rush at least seems to be winking at the audience from time to time, and his verbal abuse seems to be crafted for effect rather than 100% serious. There are far worse out there who seem to be under the delusion they are journalists.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:48 PM

Personally, I'm waiting for Bill Maher to invite Rush to be on his new HBO show........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:35 PM

Kat- That's very kind of you to congratulate me... but I'm still pregnant. It just so happens that I have a 14 month old baby in addition to the fact that I'm pregnant. I'm living proof that breastfeeding is not effective birth control. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:18 PM

What concerns me are the people who don't understand that Rush is a lot of tongue in cheek etc. entertainment. There are a lot of people who take him quite seriously. Don, you put it well when you said you think he is a mouthpiece for dangerous men. I think he brings their message to the mainsteam in such an entertaining way, to some at least it's entertaining, that people forget how harmful it can be. That kind of constant rhetoric can really get embedded in the mass consciousness to the point where a lot of people believe it.

Beccy, you had your baby? Congratulations!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:14 PM

Beccy.........you can't be serious. Here I was thinking that you were one of those discerning conservatives. Rush is no more fair to those he disagrees with than any of the rest. They purport to give them time, even let them go a bit, then control how the rest of the conversation goes. It is not even close to debate. Usually the segment will come to an end just as the "opponent" starts to rebut. And the "liberals" aren't any better. Even those moderate/conservative/independent folks like Jim Bohannon do the same. In fact, Bohannon will just talk over the top of you and belittle you, should you disagree with him or come up with something that he believes is not up to his standard.

Talk shows aren't supposed to be real. And they are not. They are contrived to only bolster the opinions of the host. They are emblematic of the problem I pointed out above. They serve to bolster preconceived notions, not to foster understanding or discussion.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 05:04 PM

Saulgoldie- I would like to point out that ALL talk shows that are even remotely engaging are very carefully screened.

As for your assertion that they weed out those with whom they disagree... it's false. They both often put callers with whom they disagree at the front of the queue. For good or for bad, they seem to enjoy the challenge of convincing someone to whom they are ideologically philosophically opposed. I've heard it MANY times with me own ears.

And Don- are you reading my mind? I would hold up Bill Buckley as, bar none, the greatest Conservative intellect of our times. He's one of my favorite. George Will comes in a close second. Bill's more entertaining in his manner of speech, though.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: saulgoldie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:38 PM

Did anyone mention and (I skimmed by it) that Rush and many similar talk show hosts (O'Reilly among them) meticulously screen callers for potential opposition and cut off anyone who may be beginning to make a cogent counter-argument? Yes, they do.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:30 PM

That is all true Beccy.

Bernard Goldbergs book is great and should be read by everyone with this kind of interest. But I disagree about media and who they bash. I'll bet it is pretty even up just now.

Imagine. AM radio , a force in America once again.

At the same time Rush( Formerly Russ) Limbaugh has called all Democrats agents of the communist party and traitors to America. But he said such with tongue in cheek I'm sure and there for did no damage to anyone because he is the new "Peck's Bad Boy" and just a cute middle aged cuddle bug. Listen close, it is not hard to find a comment like ... all Democrats are duplicitous in this.... .

You wanna hold up George Will, Barry Goldwater, or Bill Buckley as the great conservative minds of the day and I'll agree with you. But Rush is a Demagogic Demi-God wanna be who is quick of wit and entertaining and all of us who laugh at him and admire his marketing skills may be missing what he really is, just a jerk. I don't believe he is the most dangerous man in America, Reserve that space for John Ashcroft, but I think he is a mouth piece for some dangerous men.

To say all Democrats are bad is as brainless as saying all Republicans are good.

Maybe it is time to stop putting people in Identity Barrels and just use names. Stop the sweeping generalities that both Democrats and Republicans use be specific. If that is too dificult to do then tough. I won't fall into some easily laid trap by a bunch of media heads trying to make their opposite numbers look foolish.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:17 PM

I still think our disagreement boils down to the corner of the ring from which we are looking at the issues.

What makes you think I'm in the Democrat corner of the ring, Beccy?

My perception is that the Republians get the shaft more often than not by the media and I'm sure your perception is the opposite. I think Bernard Goldberg was courageous and you probably think he's a paranoid narcissist.

I'm not familiar with Mr. Goldberg's work. But the fact remains that no one who represents the Democratic side of the debate can even come close to Limbaugh when it comes to attracting an audience using those kinds of tactics. Newt Gingerich was particularly good at that as well.

Re: the media... I don't think any of the major media outlets are unbiased. I don't see them as having a liberal bias though. Mostly I see their biases as transcending party loyalties seeing as how all of the major media outlets are owned by a very small handfull of very large corporations. They'll promote whatever agenda they see as being in their economic interest.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:58 PM

I apologize for mis-paraphrasing you, CarolC. My bad... but I still respectfully disagree with the substance of what you said. The Democrats are very good at defining the debate by miscasting all Republicans as nasty, mean-spirited and worse.

In fact, recently, Daschle held a press-conference to talk about "Republican obstructionist tactics" while simultaneously assisting in the Estrada filibuster.

I personally think the Republicans stink royally at the PR game. There's nothing sexy about a tough love approach to national issues.

I still think our disagreement boils down to the corner of the ring from which we are looking at the issues. My perception is that the Republians get the shaft more often than not by the media and I'm sure your perception is the opposite. I think Bernard Goldberg was courageous and you probably think he's a paranoid narcissist.

My point? I still think what I said was applicable despite my mis-paraphrasing of you. It's hard to read thoroughly with a stinky-diapered baby on your lap. :-) I was movin' fast...

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:14 PM

CarolC- I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that only Republicans run nasty campaigns on the national level. I am going to assume that this is one of those "eye of the beholder" moments.

Beccy, you misquote me entirely. I didn't say the Democrats never do it. I said they suck at it, while the Republicans are quite good at it. When the Republicans do it, more often than not, it succeeds. When the Democrats do it, more often than not, it backfires.

I would suggest a more careful reading of my posts in the future, if you want to have an accurate understanding of what I am saying.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:20 PM

CarolC- I also want to suggest that the "dollar bill through the trailer park" statement by Carville was part of a concerted (and effective) effort to discredit Paula Jones via character assasination. Did ANYONE in the media treat her respectfully?

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:17 PM

CarolC- I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that only Republicans run nasty campaigns on the national level. I am going to assume that this is one of those "eye of the beholder" moments.

Do you think that it is not nasty when Democrats (i.e. Gephart, Daschle, Pelosi, etc...) accuse Republicans of wanting to take medication away from the elderly, feed ketchup to school children as lunch (remember THAT one?), balance the budgets on the backs of the poor and more? Or do you see those as statements of fact?

If you see those as statements of fact, please remove the word "Republican" and add in the name of any conservative you wish (me included.) If you say, "But I don't know you... so I don't know your motivation" I would have to say that you're right and you've just proven my point. Nasty politics occur on BOTH sides of the aisle, whether we like it or not. That is the nature of the beast.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:12 PM

I think if perhaps everyone stuck to the task of getting their message across, it would be so much easier to listen! What I would really like to see is more "here's why my idea is good" instead of "here's why his idea is bad." I don't want to know why I shouldn't vote for him - I want to know why I SHOULD vote for you.

But maybe for some odd reason, people are more attracted to mudslinging, in the same way they're attracted to so-called reality TV. I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:05 PM

Rick - I would guess that in a social setting I would have a ball with Rush. But he wouldn't like debate where he can't control the flow.

Ebbie - yes, like our President. But a huge difference is that Rush doesn't have the nuclear trigger, or the ability to launch cruise missiles and land troops.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:04 PM

You could be right in local politics, Kim. But definitely not in national politics.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:02 PM

CarolC- You don't think the "dragging the dollar bill through the trailer park" remark was effective against Paula Jones?

When I look at the results it got, which is to say pretty much none (except maybe to make her cry), I'd have to say no, it was not effective. It probably hurt the Democrats more than it helped them.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:02 PM

I dunno, Carol, we had some pretty ugly tactics from both parties going on in our last local elections in Nashville... our current elected Governor is a Democrat who ran a really nasty campaign. Apparently it worked.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:58 PM

"I find him to be, for the most part, shallow, demagogic, and lacking substance in terms of his policy views. Conversely, I find him very entertaining and witty, in terms of his image. And in terms of self promotion, he is a wizard. This is a man that was a miserable failure in most of his ventures in life. But when he realized he was onto something with his talkshow, he exploited masterfully. He understood that Americans could care less about any facts except those which reinforced their preconceived notions about "how things should be". Folks these days, Democrat and Republican (USA sense), Conservative and Liberal, just don't seem to like true, enlightened debate. They prefer to let themselves get comfortable with what's in front of them, and then search for folks that will make them comfortable with that. Rush is the poster child for this distressing trend. "

Oh. You mean, kind of like our president?

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:53 PM

Rick- I know what you mean. With the threads separated all tidy-like, you can go nuts on the politics without feeling guilty about the bandwidth :-)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:51 PM

For what it's worth, friends......My radio show (Acoustic Workshop, 7 pm Mondays, on CIUT Toronto!!!) is currently being sponsored by an

INTERNET AND TELEPHONE PSYCHIC HOT LINE!!!

Can't they see into the future enough to know I make fun of them after every commercial? (yes I COULD probably get fired but I'm more subtle on the air than I am here!

C'mon Mick...if you were in a 'Mudcat dialogue' with Rush, you'd be invitin' him out to hoist a pint! My biggest (at the moment) problem with him is that he IS intelligent and articulate enough to know that Bush is blessed with a bit of a 'simple mind' and obviously no recall of facts (or anything else other than simple repetitive phrases)....but what can he (Rush) say? Rush would KILL to have Chaney and Rumsfeld as the head honchos.

But once again.....Would Bill C. buy his reeds at Guitar Centre? I vote yes.

Cheers (this is fun...if all the threads were still mixed up I'd be feelin' mighty guilty at the moment for talkin' trash!) )

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:40 PM

CarolC- You don't think the "dragging the dollar bill through the trailer park" remark was effective against Paula Jones?

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:20 PM

till one great day the Republican Right discovered his one "talent"---a penchant for bitter sarcasm usually directed at anything that contains elements of decency.

As long as this is the way people want their politically flavored entertainment; bitter sarcasm, etc., the Democrats will never have a substantial mouthpiece like Rush. Nobody uses dirty tricks and meanness as effectively as the Republicans, and they never will. Which is unfortunate only in that it seems to give the Republicans the edge when people don't care about content. James Carville tries, but even he doesn't do it effectively.

But that's ok. I'd like to see someone take the high road and not verbally debase people as a way of promoting a political agenda. Since the Democrats aren't effective at using playground-style meanness as a tactic, they really need to stick to using other tactics to get their message across.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:22 AM

"I would rather beat Rush in the arena of ideas. If you don't like Rush, and decry his popularity, then look in the mirror. The problem is that he appeals to a lot of folks. It is not his fault that we haven't found an effective voice. It is ours."

Go Mick, go! If I could hear an entertaining liberal radio talk show host, I might just listen... but there isn't one out there.

As a Conservative, I get a charge out of Rush's politics, but I really listen for the parodies. The "Al Gore Paradise" one and the John McCain's "Should I Stay or Should I Go" were priceless.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:11 AM

OK, folks. Economics and Business Administration 101 time. Businesses make money selling product to folks. They generally pick various target markets. They then pick stations, papers, and media outlets, to get the message to that audience. Obviously they saw something in Rush's demographics that appealed to that need. I usually go to the local Guitar Center when I need something quick, or if I am after music software, or equipment rack's, ....... paraphanelia stuff. I never buy instruments from them, as the prices are nothing special, and the level of knowledge of the sales staff is run of the mill, there is virtually no after sale support, and luthier is a word in the dictionary to most of them. Add to the price issue, and you see what I mean. I suppose if I saw something that was a good value I would consider it, but I just don't go there often. It is usually when I can't make it to Elderly.

As far as Rush goes.........

There is not one soul on this forum who is more opposed to most of Rush's positions. I find him to be, for the most part, shallow, demagogic, and lacking substance in terms of his policy views. Conversely, I find him very entertaining and witty, in terms of his image. And in terms of self promotion, he is a wizard. This is a man that was a miserable failure in most of his ventures in life. But when he realized he was onto something with his talkshow, he exploited masterfully. He understood that Americans could care less about any facts except those which reinforced their preconceived notions about "how things should be". Folks these days, Democrat and Republican (USA sense), Conservative and Liberal, just don't seem to like true, enlightened debate. They prefer to let themselves get comfortable with what's in front of them, and then search for folks that will make them comfortable with that. Rush is the poster child for this distressing trend. We Americans are the worst of the bunch when it comes to this. We tend toward shallow, "make us feel good about ourselves", kind of media. We ignore the lessons of history that teach us that when the citizens of great powers start to believe that their way is the only way, it is the beginning of the end. Soon we begin to alibi our actions in the world, by mouthing things like "We are a God fearing nation" as if to imply that God only favors us. We begin to take unilateral action, as if the rest of the world should simply be quiet and submit to our obvious economic, intellectual, and moral authority. Within, the loyal opposition begins to fragment into factions of a thousand different viewpoints, hence weakening itself and leaving significant population groups voiceless in any effective way. Examples of this can be seen in any number of historical regimes. Greece, Rome, Germany, and on and on.

I would never boycott them because they advertise with Rush. Smart move on their part. I don't do much shopping there, because I prefer quality shops with great staff and service.

I would rather beat Rush in the arena of ideas. If you don't like Rush, and decry his popularity, then look in the mirror. The problem is that he appeals to a lot of folks. It is not his fault that we haven't found an effective voice. It is ours.

A liberal Mick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:59 AM

Well, that's what I thought... I was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I do think it's true, though, that advertising on a particular show may not necessarily reflect the business owner's personal opinions. It may be a shrewd business decision more than anything else, if the show's demographics are what they're after. Not saying it's right or wrong - the business world is often its own little animal.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:45 AM

Kat's right. No media buyer would ever let you think that your float time would ever be during a huge market show like that. You need to specifically ask for those slots and you pay a premium. (In my pre-child Robert Service-type days, I interned for a media buyer at an ad agency.)

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM

Yes, Kim, an advertiser can buy ROS, run of schedule ads and they will run in a random pattern, BUT no radio station in their right mind would let anything run, except premium paid ads, during such a *popular* show as Rush's. For that, they would get top dollar and the sponsorship would be exclusive to those who signed the contract and paid.

Radio is not immune to the pressures of advertisers, either. We once ran a news story about a big advertiser's son getting drunk and running his car into the plate glass window of a furniture store. We had to pull the story as the parents threatened to pull their adverts. IT was a real dilemma between the monetary support of the salesperson who had worked long and hard to get the account, the station which needed the revenue of such heavy hitters and the integrity of the newspeople who wanted to run even more of the story. There were several of us who were saddend when the management chose dollars over that integrity.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:55 AM

Let me pose this question- maybe someone will know for sure. It seems like, in buying broadcast advertising, a customer can pay a premium for their ad to appear on a particular program, or they can "float" and their ads will appear wherever there's empty space. So, could it not be that Guitar Center bought an ad from a particular radio station, without necessarily intending it to air during Rush's show? Or perhaps they wanted it to air at a particular time of day, that just happened to be during that show.

I used to work at a newspaper, and the policy was that advertising didn't affect editorial content didn't affect advertising. It was a pretty progressive paper, and I know that several of the advertisers didn't agree with a lot of the things we did! But they knew that our product reached the people who would be likely to shop with them.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 09:12 AM

I hear ya, Kat. Despite the fact that we'd be going in different directons with this information, I'm not convinced. This is all very interesting, in theory. But I still haven't seen a link that shows me concrete proof that GC HAS purchased adverts on Rush's show.

Bec

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:31 AM

Has anyone besides Guest,JMarra, found any evidence that Guitar Center does buy adverts on his show? I'd really like to see independent confirmation before I decided to boycott a company.

Don, thanksdarlin':-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: mg
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 01:11 AM

I listen to him from time to time and agree on some things and disagree on others. I also think he can be mean on occasion, but certainly not always. But one thing I think, and that is that he can really be hilariously funny. He has a good ear for mimicry and he does these really funny imitations of people....(overlaps into the meanness on occasion but not usually).

mg

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Boab
Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:36 AM

I can't listen to Limbaugh. I really tried , about twice, I think. But don't be too severe on the man; I heard once on good authority that he never in his whole life could hold a job for a reasonable length of time till one great day the Republican Right discovered his one "talent"---a penchant for bitter sarcasm usually directed at anything that contains elements of decency.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 10:32 PM

Beccy,

Not only I trust you but I believe you. I know it is Rush, I meant to tuype Rush but wenh I tiped it the name came out Rsuu. I just can't type to well.

"I always wonder why the conservatives are the first ones to give away our rights in the face of a threat and then are the first ones to sqawk and hide behind their rights when they think the liberals are taking over!"

Gotta say I agree with this, conservatives do appear willing to do away with the like the freedom of speach and assembly" But I also agree with the notion that liberals are just as willing to give up rights they disagree with or don't use, ie: The right to bear arms. It all depends on the agenda of the faction.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Troll
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 09:22 PM

Re: the question of why Clinton vs. Dole?
Simple, by putting him opposite one of the oldest people in political life right now, (yes, I know that Strom Thurmond is older) Clinton comes off looking young, virile and fresh. In short, just the sort of man the nation needs to help guide it in the years ahead.
Basically, this is puff P.R. at its best and I can't help but admire the mind that came up with it all the while wishing he/she could have found someone without Clintons obvious flaws (no, NOT the sex thing) to promote.
Don, right on.
As far as Rush goes, I listen when I'm driving around town so I have never heard a complete show. I do like his parodies. When he comes up with something that I feel is worthy of attention, I fire up my trusty pc when I get home and check it out. I NEVER accept what he (or anyone else in the political/entertainment field ) says without doing a little checking first.
I like egg but not on my face.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:32 PM

Saul- You said: "Conservatives believe they have all the answers and that new inquiry is only a distraction, punishable by not less than 5 and not more than 20 years. Liberals believe that we can always learn new ways of doing things and revisit our beliefs in light of new information or insights. In this regard, once again, I am proud to be a Liberal."

You proved one thing- that Liberals DO have a sense of humour. You don't think that those definitions you gave might have been a touch slanted to be favorable to your point of view, do you? I'll turn it around.

My definition of a conservative is on who conserves that which is good from the past with an eye toward the future.

My definition of a liberal is one who is more interested in throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater in order to put feel-good theory into practice whilst completely ignoring history. (No that's not my ACTUAL definition of a liberal- but I'm doing what you did in the opposite direction.)

Alright- my actual definition of a liberal is someone who is more swayed by an emotional argument than a logical one. I tend to see the proposed liberal solutions to problems as being like putting a band-aid on a gusher of a wound rather than applying pressure. The band-aid may temporarily slow the flow of blood- but it's going to lose its effectivness after its soaked through...

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:29 PM

I always wonder why the conservatives are the first ones to give away our rights in the face of a threat and then are the first ones to sqawk and hide behind their rights when they think the liberals are taking over! It's as though they don't trust the Constitution or the Declaration of Independance to be strong enough. Granted, even the dishwater Democrats were bamboozeled by the U.S.A.Patriot Act. But the conservatives were the first to rush in and take advantage of the situation for their own narrow beliefs.

"Those who would give away their liberty for safety, deserve neither."
Ben Franklin.

P.S. Those of you who drooled over U.S.A. Patriot Act part one should be salivating in pure ecstacy about Part Two.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 04:44 PM

Don- I'm not trying to be a nitpicker, but it's going to end up sounding that way. It's not RusS. It's RusH. You need to trust me on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 12:16 PM

I think we have more important things to get pissy about than this BUT...

Russ is a "Pro big business search and destroy the little guy which is oh as long as it is business." kinda guy.

The Guitar Center has been indicted in this very forum as being a "Small business munching music machine that is without soul."
(I have never been to one so I'm only misquoting what I read here.)

THe two would seem a perfect match to me.

   But be reasonable. Anytime a good small business gets bigger and more successful. Every small business mans dream, mine included, things go out of control a little. This year I have to hire an accountant. My taxes are becoming too complicated. So I have to give up some control to the accountant. In the effort for her to make decisions in my best interest I have to give her the right to do that. ( I promise Kat that she won't invest in businesses that burn down the rainforrests or Club seals instead of sandwiches.) In doing so I've lost some control.
   And guess what, I'll make less money this year because now I have to hire outside help in order to grow so I can make more money. This isn't corporate greed on my part. It is my only retirement. (A retirement was something I had before GWB.) So I have to do this.
   The Guitar Center probably has someone who does their advertising or buys space on the radio. And t probably isn't some pimple faced greasy hair kid on his first job. Its a very business savvy astute guy miles away.
   Not everything is a conspiacy of the right or the lefts.

   And Kim C is 100% right. Don't like him or they? Don't do business with him or they. I think Russ is a one trick pony, and I don't think he believes every thing he says.
   Go ahead and boycott a corprate pirate if you want to and sink his ship but remember that when his ship goes down it takes with it the kid on his first job and many other folks who could be your neighbors and are clueless to the ships operation. Enron ring a bell?

   Also this isn't a Republican or Democrat issue and to think so is silly. Clinton morally bankrupt the country, Bush is fiscally bankrupting the country. Either way the country is in trouble.
Neither guy deserved to win but who is at fault for not giving us better choices?

Thats the end of my directionless rant

Don

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Mar 03 - 11:21 AM

Frank said:

"Rush, well I'm not entertained".

I wasn't initially either Frank. And I certainly found nothing entertaining when I first became exposed to the mentality that implied "I'm all right Jack, now screw you". Over the years however, I simply realized that if I was to 'let myself go' I could easily have become a 'bomb builder' or at the very least the kind of activist that simply can never relax. There are a few at Mudcat, and as much as I respect where many of their beliefs are coming from, I simply think it must be exhausting to be a life-long activist. I guess one of the ways that I have disseminated the natural rage at "Rush-style" politics is to treat them (and their perpetrators) as a joke. Works for me. Unfortunately, I don't see any answers in the official 'opposition's' playbook either.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 09:25 PM

I've never heard of Frank Hamilton except here in the Mudcat. Heya there Frank. Sounds like you've done some good work.

The folk music I play is mostly not from the US. I guess it's kind of interesting that some people define "folk" music as being only what has come out of the US since the time of The Weavers.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 07:31 PM

Doug, you never cease to amaze me :)

Conservatives are progressive and Liberals hold onto the past?
And the dictionary is wrong for contridicting you?
Well Doug you are certainly "progressive" about the english language. It's kind of an "Orwellian" approach to things but if it works for you Why Not??!! **BG**

And Doug why do you assume that I have never listened to Limbaugh? Do you believe that everyone who does is immediately captivated by his charms? ***BG*** I've heard him. He stereotypes and makes fun of peoples names, humour it is, I guess, entralling it is not. The reason I don't listen to him is because he is boring and predictable and seldom says anything of substance. If he does occaiasionally make a salient observation, but only because he talks so much that probabilty would not allow it ALL to be garbage. He doesn't actually have a stand, he just pokes fun of the beliefs of others. To each their own.

GUEST,EdTheLurker,

Who on earth starts a written sentence with "Uhh"? Are you a 13 year old from the San Fernando Valley? *G* No, until I read Ebbie's post, I didn't know who he is. My interest in folk music, does not include an interest in the Byrds or the Weavers. My interest in folk music lies mainly in Irish folk music and in Canadian folk with Irish roots. I do know who Stan Rogers was. I am happy for Mr. Hamilton that he has been so influential and impressed so many people, including Studs Turkel, whose opinion I respect. I won't be making any kind of a study of his life or work. I'm sorry that I didn't who he was. I also am sorry that you are somehow offended because I do not meet your criteria of being a "folkie". Please pardon me.

Ebbie, thank you for explaining what ETH was in a huff about. I can use that kind of "gasoline" any time! Is the "Frank Hamilton" with whom I have had the exchange of views, indeed the, one and only, Frank Hamilton to whom you refer. I would imagine it to be a fairly common name in english speaking countries.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:30 PM

Saulgoldie: I guess I did not make myself clear in what I said about Diane. I think she is anything BUT nuetral! I think her bias is clear for anyone to see (hear). Last Friday she had David Corn, Susan Page and Bill Crystal on her show to discuss current events. It was definitely three against one, but Bill did well against those odds anyway.

Your definition of a conservate and a liberal gave me a chuckle however. That has been discussed on this forum so many times it would be difficult to count them. Invariably, the writer leans on the dictionary to define them and, in my opinion, the definitions are reversed. The conservatives are the progressive party (check out plans for SS for example) and liberals are clinging to the old ways.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 Mar 03 - 03:19 PM

Doug,
It is to Diane Rehm's credit that you *don't* know where she stands. That attests to her neutrality and skill as a fair interviewer. This is a compliment. She is truly about learning, exploring, and searching for the truth.

That is a concept that is all too unfortunately foreign to Rush. He is not the least bit interested in "the truth", only in jamming what he *insists* to be the truth--nevermind any contrary facts or logic that might mess up a good argument--down everyone's throats. Rush's relationship with the truth is purley incidental and random. That is *not* a compliment. Denouncing her and holding him up as a paragon of integrity and fairness just doesn't make sense.

This distinction between "jamming" and "seeking" is the crux of the difference, in fact, between what are called in the US today "conservatives" and liberals". (Had to clarify that, since in other times and locations the definitions vary considerably.) Conservatives believe they have all the answers and that new inquiry is only a distraction, punishable by not less than 5 and not more than 20 years. Liberals believe that we can always learn new ways of doing things and revisit our beliefs in light of new information or insights. In this regard, once again, I am proud to be a Liberal.


GC's support of him through advertising will definitely make me think carefully about my purchases there, such as they may be. And no, this has nothing to do with throttling free speech. Free speech on the airwaves is far more threatened by the consolidation of the media in fewer and fewer (rich, white, powerful) hands, as I mentioned in another thread recently.

And yes, using one's economic power as an adjunct to voting (which we all know may not always be counted) is a legitimate endeavor. In fact, I suggest that thinking, caring people have an *obligation* to practice it. That is what it is to live consciously.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 11:23 PM

Ed the Lurker: Don't you think it a bit insensitive to pose that question to Jack the Sailor? And Ebbie, you are pouring gasoline on the flames! Oh well.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 10:53 PM

um, you mean this Frank Hamilton?

Multi-instrumentalist, vocalist, and folk song collector Frank Hamilton has played a seminal role in the evolution of American folk music. A co-founder of the Old Town School of Music in Chicago in 1957, Hamilton taught the future leader of the Byrds, Roger McGuinn, to play guitar and banjo. Accompanied by his wife, Mary, Hamilton's interpretations brought a new sensibility to songs of America's past. His stint with the Weavers, as replacement for Erik Darling, who had replaced Pete Seeger, lasted little more than a year — 1962 to 1963 — but his contributions remained essential to the folk quartet's legacy. Seeger called him "one of the most creative musicians in the country," while Odetta described him as "a folksinger's folksinger, a master of the art." Studs Terkel declared that he was "quite possibly the most expert and versatile of folk instrumentalists."

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,EdTheLurker
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 10:17 PM

Uhh Jack the Sailor. You asked if FRANK HAMILTON plays guitar? Do you not have a clue who he is?

Sometimes I wonder if there are any folkies left on the cat.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: DougR
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 05:02 PM

I doubt that Kim. I think he has been offered TV shows before but from what I have heard and read, he really doesn't want to work that hard on a daily basis. I agree with Beccy, though, I don't think Dole will much of a match for Clinton. Newt Gingrich would have been much better to present the conservative side.

Jack: To each his own. Nobody can make anyone listne to anything on radio. Hard to understand if one never listens to Rush, though,how one could be so sure he is not entertaining, and as Beccy said, knowledgible (or words to that affect). I listen to Rush fairly regularly and enjoy it. I listen to the Diane Rheme show fairly regularly too, but I usually don't unless she is interviewing an author. She gets entirely too involved as a participant (rather than a host)in political discussions, and it's not difficult to determine how she leans.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 04:43 PM

I didn't vote for Clinton (the second time) - but I do think he has a great sense of humor and a lot of charisma. He will probably do well on TV and what do you bet me he WILL have his own show!

I thought they had Survivor contestants who were Clinton's age? I don't watch it enough to know.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 04:24 PM

Slick Willie Vs Viagra Man

It ought to be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 04:19 PM

KimC:-)

Well, like Clinton said they're too old for Survivor or Star Search! Hahaha...I take it as a shrewd move on Clinton's part. I, for one would love to see him elected again, but realise that's a long shot.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 03:43 PM

Clinton vs. Dole? Come on- where's the contest. Clinton can talk circles around the honorable former Senator Dole. Dole did, after all, lose miserably to Clinton in a presidential campaign following several tv debates.

I think they chose the guy who they thought would be most likely to make Clinton look virile, clever and powerful.

(Keep in mind that I voted for Dole- Clinton makes my skin crawl...)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 02:27 PM

Right - he's going to have a 10-week, 2-minute TV show within a show. ;-)

I thought I had read awhile back on Drudge that he -might- be getting his own show. I guess I'm confused!

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:30 PM

Ebbie, that's what I read. Also, that it was only going to consist of two minutes. Here's an article about it: clickety.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 01:09 PM

Jack can we infer from this that you don't think musicians have real jobs? Or only rich Republicans buy guitars? Let's see the stats on this.

Frank Hamilton


Frank you can infer what you please but I did not imply that. I implied that many of the customers of these guitars do not use them for work. Call me stupid, but if you are a professional guitar player, you probably already have a guitar or two. If you are making really good money as a player, you probably have a guitar company sponsor you. If not your disposable income is low. You probably know a luthier, or have friends who make and/or sell guitars. Musicains often also have sources for quality used guitars.

Compare this to a professional man, getting a little tired of his Harley and his bass boat, who is trying to recapture the days of his youth. Who is more likely to buy a brand name, high end guitar this year? I don't think Martin and Gibson are selling all of those "signature" guitars from the "Jim Croce" to the "Angus Young" to professional or even serious amateur musicians. BTW there are also lots of middle income to well heeled Democrats who buy guitars as well. It's more a boomer thing than a political thing.

Frank, if you are a professional musician, I dare say that GC is not the best place to buy an Axe. If you are discriminating and are looking for value, there are much better places. I know hundreds of people with fairly high end guitars, most have shopped at GC and gone elsewhere.

I don't have any stats. It's just my opinion, I think I am fairly well informed. Take it or leave it.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 12:48 PM

Clinton on his own show? I think the word is that 60 Minutes is planning a Point/Counterpoint type segment with Clinton vs. Dole. I'll watch.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Mar 03 - 10:39 AM

The entertainment in talk shows isn't the host, really - it's the people who call in. That's why I like to listen to talk radio, and pretty much any host will do! I can't pick up AM stations in the building I work in, and several of the shows don't do streaming on the Net anymore, so I rarely get to listen these days, unless I'm off work.

If you want to talk strident and mocking - see if you can pick up Glenn Beck sometime.

Anyhow, Clinton's fixing to have his own TV show...

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 08:12 PM

I can listen to Rush Limbaugh just about as long as I can listen to our illustrious prez'dint. My late brother was quite conservative and listened to RL- when I was visiting my brother I'd first become aware that the Limbaugh show was on when there was this unpleasant, stridently mocking voice coming from my brother's radio in the kitchen. I wouldn't have had to know the English language to know that at the other end of the air waves there was someone I would not want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Frankham
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 07:00 PM

I have shopped at Guitar Center in the past. Thanks for telling me this. I might have to rethink this. Rush? Well I'm not entertained.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Frankham
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 06:56 PM

Hey, Jack,
(don't want to say hi-jack) :)

"These are the type of folks that use their income from their real jobs to feed their "Gear Habit" Most have several medium rande guitars, Taylors, Martins etc. They are a prime market fo GC. "

Jack can we infer from this that you don't think musicians have real jobs? Or only rich Republicans buy guitars? Let's see the stats on this.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 06:30 PM

Heck, the last time I boycotted anything it was grapes in support of Cesar Chavez, eons ago.

As usual I was trying to be light hearted in my respose to this post, but in fact the high-end Martin, Taylor and Gibson market IS dominated by middle aged men who've gone to college have/had a good job and make a lot of money. Have ya seem how much these axes cost? It's hard to picture the guys I see in the 12 Fret strumming (usually awfully) the high end stuff spending a lot of time on picket lines, ha ha! So Rush's listeners "have trouble with women", eh? Jeezus, next they'll have figured out how yer sex life's goin' by the way you play yer F chord!

But (just for argument's sake) I'll bet a lot of Rush's listners are like me and in it for the entertainment. When I first heard him zero in on Democrat crooks, and completely ignore Republican ones, I knew he wasn't AS noble as he let on.

The question REALLY is......will Bill Clinton frequent the stores when he needs sax reeds?

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 06:05 PM

Kim C, I tend to agree with you. Especially if you include the choices made in elections and in consumerism.

These are the type of folks that use their income from their real jobs to feed their "Gear Habit" Most have several medium rande guitars, Taylors, Martins etc. They are a prime market fo GC.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:51 PM

Well, Jack, I don't even make HALF that much, and I think the ills of the country pretty much lie with the choices that individuals make.

Then again, I ain't such a good guitar player, either. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:25 PM

The Limbaugh listeners that I know ARE white suburbanites making 60,000 to 80,000 per year. They think that the taxes they pay are "Our Money" and are therefor unjust. They blame the ills of the country on welfare moms and Hillary Clinton. They are above average guitar players with sharp senses of humour. They're senses of humour, when it comes to politics, are somewhat flawed. They think Limbaugh is funny. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:25 PM

JMarra, thanks, but that doesn't really prove anything because there is no cite for the source. It also does not help that you have now given three different places where you supposedly found this information. So, yes, the third site did have Guitar Center in it, but, again, it needs to include a source citation.

Thank you,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM

And you couldn't pay me to shop at Guitar Center! Well.... actually.... you could. But, since shopping at a Guitar Center store entails either a four hour drive to New Orleans or a four hour drive to Atlanta and I don't really like either place, my price would be kinda high. Small-town pickers are 'sposed to shop at small-town music stores. Guitar Center can advertise with whomever they want.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM

You're very welcome, GUEST. To each his/her own.

"Threatened by women"? Yeah, okay. By whom is Mr. Kohut highly regarded? Sounds more like a wanna-be profiler to me. I guess I'm an atypical Rush Limbaugh listener, as I am a rural female with no job at all.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:16 PM

>>...Rick- you may be right. They may lose some business, but they're also going to gain a pretty nice market share. Rush has a very well proven track record of increasing market flow and business. (Snapple, Priceline, Hotwire, Select Comfort, etc...) He has a HUGE audience.>>

Thanks for letting me know who else to boycott. I used to use Priceline.

From the 3/2/03 Chicago Tribunue article by Jon Margolis:

'Andrew Kohut, the highly regarded pollster for Times-Mirror, has described "the typical Limbaugh listener" as a "white male, suburbanite, conservative [with a] better-than-average job but not really a great job. Frustrated with the system, with the way the world of Washington works. Frustrated by cultural change. Maybe threatened by women."

Somebody, in short, who is not as rich, powerful or famous as he thinks he should be, and who wants to blame outside forces. The talk-show hosts help. They blame cultural (but rarely economic) elites and the government for the world's ills and regularly reinforce the listener's sense of being scorned and ridiculed.'

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER-RUSH LIMBAUGH link
From: GUEST,JMarra
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 05:03 PM

Kat,

Try http://kid69.diaryland.com/, about one-third of the way down. Or search "guitar" on the page.

J

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:56 PM

I guess all it show is that there is a Market among Right wings talk show listeners for guitars.

The Guitar forums I visit have lots of "conservatives" I would say that middle class business people etc buy more guitars, especially from chain stores, than do folkies. The advertisers don't support the show, they buy a piece of the audience. Don't blame GC fo being a business.

BTW, you couldn't PAY me to listen to Rush.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:53 PM

JMarra, you can tell people whatever you want. I don't have a problem with that.

It's just we've had a lot of talk on this forum lately about constitutional rights being violated, free speech in particular, and now it seems like free speech doesn't apply to Rush Limbaugh.

Since you don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, and never would, why do you even care if he's on the air or not?

My point is simply that free speech applies to the people we don't like, too.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:32 PM

One more thing- pardon my double posting, but my munchkin hit enter.

I listen to Rush more days than I don't and I have NEVER heard an advert for Guitar Center.

-Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Beccy
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 04:30 PM

Thanks for the heads up... now I can give Guitar Center even more of my business, happily. Guitar music and "right-wing bigotry"???? Does that mean you think that; a) all right-leaning people are bigots and b) that all conservative musicians are untalented?

Yeesh- You would think Rush was the devil incarnate. He's a funny, astute observer of politics. Have any of you heard his parody of a Tom Daschle talk radio show? It had me ROFL.

...Rick- you may be right. They may lose some business, but they're also going to gain a pretty nice market share. Rush has a very well proven track record of increasing market flow and business. (Snapple, Priceline, Hotwire, Select Comfort, etc...) He has a HUGE audience.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 03:51 PM

JMarra, you want to give a direct link, please? First you said you found it at TakeBacktheMedia, now at BuzzFlash. I went to both. BuzzFlash led me to his site. His site map led me to No.6 which claims there should be a tab at the top listing his advertisers, but f*** if I know where it is, and I am pretty skilled at finding things. So a direct link and/or some kind of proof would be good before expecting people to send a protest.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,JMarra
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 01:59 PM

There is a full transcript of Rush Limbaugh's shows (not the edited ones the Limbaugh site shows) that you can access through a link at BuzzFlash.com. Advertisers are briefly listed in between segments. I was reading one of his transcripts and discovered the Guitar Center ad there.

I don't really understand the problem Kim C has with my letting people know what Guitar Center is doing, and what they can do if they don't want to support a company that supports Rush Limbaugh. No one HAS to boycott Guitar Center. I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh anyway, I never would, so that point is meaningless. But people who might want him off the air can use a boycott, and I'm just letting people know. I didn't know until a few days ago that they support him.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 01:39 PM

Funny, I took a look around TakeBackTheMedia and didn't see Guitar Centre on the most current list. Unfortunately they don't have a search function that I could find, so I can't say for sure.

Sure they have the rights, Kim, but boycotts of this kind have been used by both liberals and conservatives and have proven to be effective, as well as being another "right."

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 01:19 PM

If you don't like Rush, don't listen. He has a right to be on the air, and Guitar Center has a right to buy whatever kind of advertising they want. If you disagree, then don't do business with them. You have a right to do that too.

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:51 PM

"He is living proof that Republican apologists are even funnier than Democaratic ones."...........Odd, I thought he was the living proof that the Ancient Druids were buttfucked by Aliens.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:29 PM

Jeezus! Can someone REALLY suss this out? IF they DO, then they're idiots. They'll lose a lot of business. The more I think about this, I can hardly believe it....not that the corporate owners WOULDN'T love Rush.....but that they'd make it public.

Don't get the wrong impression here though........I LUVVV Rush, and I listen to him as often as I can. He is living proof that Republican apologists are even funnier than Democaratic ones.

Geez, Guitar Centre....say it isn't so!

Rick

Subject: BS: GUITAR CENTER SUPPORTS RUSH LIMBAUGH
From: GUEST,JMarra
Date: 06 Mar 03 - 12:14 PM

I learned from TakeBackTheMedia.com that Guitar Center buys advertising for the Rush Limbaugh show. If you believe that guitar music and right-wing bigotry don't mix, send feedback to:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/feedback/feedback_java.shtml

and spread the word. It's probably the only effective way to get him off the air.

J