Attacks on Arab-Americans Must Stop!

Subject: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:05 PM

I am sick at heart when I hear of attacks people are making against Arabic or Islamic people in the US. Mosques are being fired at, businesses owned by Muslims are being vandalized, and so forth.

This is a horrible injustice, and misplacement of our righteous indignation about the attacks of 9/11.

I hope all Mudcatters will join with me in condemning these acts and calling for peace and calm and brotherliness (for want of a better word).

Forgive me for starting a new thread but this is very important to me.

Alex (neither Arabic nor Islamic, but standing in solidarity with those wrongly attacked, whatever their origins or religion)

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Troll
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:07 PM

Right with you Alex.

troll

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:13 PM

Thanks, Troll. I know it doesn't do any good just posting it here -- if I knew of any Arab- or Muslim-owned businesses I'd go stand there and carry a sign or something. One feels so helpless, one wants to do SOMEthing.

Alex

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: jeffp
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:22 PM

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Alex. This is one of the outcomes I feared when the "events" occurred.

jeffp

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:26 PM

There have been a few regretable incedents, which true Americans deplore. One is too many.

What is truly remarkable is how few there have been, it makes me damb proud of our country!

What would happen to an American in some countries that call us the Great Satan if the situation were reversed? I'll tell you what, they would be killed, or taken hostage to be used as as a human shield by cowards.

I read a nice article about a Palistinan American who runs a flag store near DC. He is a true American and proud of the country we share.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:26 PM

Unfortunately there may also be a backlash in the UK as well, not that I've heard of anything in particular. One of the kids in my school (it is a special school) who has a very right wing father came in and said, to some of our Asian children " It's you fucking Paki's that did this in America". Sad world.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:28 PM

Thanks, Alex. I agree. So far, my Iranian friend has felt safe and has not experienced anything untoward. I hope it continues so.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Troll
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:28 PM

There are police cars parked across the street from the Islamic Student Union which is also their Mosque.
As far as I know there have been no problems but that could change in a heart-beat. I pray.

troll

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Kernow John
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:33 PM

With you Alex.
It is worth posting as it reminds us in the UK of the possibilities of it occuring here. Brotherliness will do just fine!
KJ

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Maryrrf
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:41 PM

I totally agree. We have many Arab-American and muslim clients, and all have expressed dismay at what happened. However, there were reports of some Arab residents celebrating in Patterson and Bayonne, NJ. I would think that this would be a most inadvisable thing to do right now!

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:42 PM

I would imagine that this would be one of the useful side-effects that the people planning the operation might have had in mind.

And Nick, be rightly proud if it does turn out that this does only happen in a very few cases in America, but don't assume that people in countries where America isn't popular are any less capable than you of being decent human beings.

I remember when the Falklands War was on there was all koind of speculation in the English press about the terrible things that could happen to British people living in Argentina, especially when the Belgrano was torpedoed as it sailed away from the war zone. But it just didn't happen.

Great Satan just means Great Enemy - that's what Satan means, in Hebrew or in Arabic.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: annamill
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:43 PM

Alex, I'm all there with you on this one. Believe me.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:54 PM

Absolutely! People need to remember also that there are a lot of refugees in this country (legally) who wanted to get AWAY from the sort of things that have happened to us this week. Nashville has a large Muslim community and I hope their safety is not in jeopardy.

I do not believe that the people who perpetrated this week's horrendous acts represent all Muslims, or all Palestinians, any more than Jim and Tammy Faye represented all Christians.

Be nice to your neighbors, y'all.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 04:57 PM

One should not blame the many for the actions of a few. The people responsible for this atrocity will be destroyed along with any infrastructure that supports them. It is worth reminding us that during the terrible but righteous retribution that will be unleashed on these miscreants some innocents will die too! War is the final option, but so far the American leadership has shown compassion and remarkable restraint from retaliation. I'm sure that when they have found out those responsible, they will act in a judicious and surgical manner as much as is humanly possible. Yours, Aye. Dave (who has Islamic neighbours sharing Americas grief)

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:19 PM

So far I have heard of two incidents, one involving a prison fight between Muslims and non-Muslims. The other, which is more chilling, involves a patriotic rally that turned ugly and may have led to attacks on a Chicago mosque. It strikes me that we could win the war against the perpetrators of this deed, but in the process we could lose much more. This phenomenon is nothing new : I am reminded of the Serbs and Muslims who lived side by side peacefully for years, then suddenly turned upon each other in violence. For us to do this would mark the saboteurs' greatest achievement.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:20 PM

Genie and I have been stoping in at the shops of our Arabic neighbors ,talking shaking hands, sharing THIER grief at this, much fear and great saddness on their part. Go visiting friends. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:21 PM

ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!

~S~

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:24 PM

Yeah...With you Alex.

There have been 3 attacks so far in Columbus that have been reported. Tragic. The fear factor and the "Klan Mentality" is as frightening as the terrorism itself.

Spaw

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:33 PM

Right there with you..........

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:38 PM

amen...remember the injustices done to Japanese Americans in WWII

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 05:42 PM

If unchecked, the resulting race riots will make LA look like a piss fight in a sand box...

Nobody wants that...

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:16 PM

Seems like everyone's "preaching to the choir" here. How do you tell ignorant people not to be ignorant?

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: GUEST,Hille
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:25 PM

Yeah, why have those people forgotten (or don't they know?) the appalling things that the Taliban (who are a sect of Shi'ite Moslems - I think - please someone correct me very quickly if I've got that wrong) are doing to other Moslems in Afghanistan. Didn't any one see the Channel 4 docu secretly filmed by Imries (?) Shah's daughter undercover in Afghanistan. Little girls from opposition groups (i.e. different ethnic groups) raped by Taliban militia, summary filmed executions, women and children starving to death because women are not allowed to work - and these are the widows of Mudjadheen soldiers!

Also, the "Arab" world didn't want to know when Moslems were being slaughtered in Bosnia/Serbia - because they (the Moslems) there are "white" and "European looking"

So - it ain't the Moslems - it is terrorists who are terrorising their "own" people too

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:27 PM

It's useless to play the violin in front of an ox.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 06:56 PM

Me too and stuff.

I hear that Sikhs are getting alot of abuse too, probably thanks to their distinctive turbans and beards. The other day, I saw footage of police stopping a train in Rhode Island (I think), and taking a turbaned man who appeared to be a Sikh into custody. Apparently, he had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks, but had been arrested because he had a concealed weapon. I wonder if anyone was searched besides the guy in the turban... Anyone heard anything else about that?

Also, I've mentioned this before, I think, but I'll do it again: Not long after the Gulf War, my French/Dutch/Scandinavian father was briefly detained and frisked during a tour of the White House because of his 'middle eastern appearance.' That's always pissed me off, and was the event that opened my eyes to what Arab-Americans and many other minorities have to go through every day in this country.

Hille: I wouldn't believe everything you hear about the Taleban. Most of the more popular information that reaches the West about Afghanistan is pure bullshit spread by oppositions groups with political agendas. And this is coming from someone who desperately wants to see the Taleban overthrown, so... :) (They're Sunni, btw.)

---Lepus Rex

p.s. Hille: A couple of threads about the Taleban from March: Thought for the day Mar 3-loss of Buddha, and BS: NPR to discuss Afghanistan & Buddha NOW. If you're interested. :)

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:06 PM

So instead of preaching to the converted write to your local media outlets and ask why they show clips of Palestinian kids getting free candy and celebrating over and over again but they don't show shots of prominent Palestinians and others praying and offering support for the Americans. Why choose that one picture of Palestinians celebrating? Others in other parts of the world probably celebrated as well, others shrugged their shoulders and went on with what they were doing and many were appalled and are doing what they can to support. Remember when they celebrate they celebrate the attack on a giant not the death of thousands, we view the same actions through different lenses.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:10 PM

My father once told me about being an American with a German name during world war two. He was a grown man by then but still having a name like Hans Adolph created no end of abuse. It also black balled him in some of the war work he did. He was unable to serve due to blindness in one eye and total deafness in one ear. He became Jack Meixner real quick after the war began. The one place he was never treated poorly was working on the Cherokee Reservation in Oklahoma.

Any attack by an American Citizen on another American citizen because of shade of skin or faith is intolerable. But sadly it is to be expected I suppose. We live in so much hatred and fear. I thot it was gone. I hoped it was gone but I guess it will always be among us.

Don

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: GUEST,Rich(bodhranai gan cookie)
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:16 PM

I'm at the library. hence the lack of a cookie. If anyone wants to ascertain that this is me, send me a PM and I'll reply when I get home.

In WWII. we took every American of Japanese descent that we could find, and put them in internment camps. Then we went to Germany and attacked them for putting Poles and Jews into camps. Granted, we eventually let our prisoners free, but this was no less terrifying to the people affected. In some cases, the Japanese-American males were asked to fight in our armies against Germany while their wives and children had to stay locked up. They were kept in deplrable conditions that we would deem unsuitable for a convicted rapist today, and for the crime of looking different than us. German-Americans hid their ethnic origins in some cases or at least didn't advertise them, for fear that they could be next.

It's been over 60 years. Haven't we learned anything yet?

We've just been brutally attacked in a devastating manner for the crime of believing differently than our attackers.
If we do the same, we are not only making ourselves no better than than them, but we're completing a cycle of hatred that can either snowball or stop with us.

Rich

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 07:36 PM

Sad but true: The last thing I said to Sid (Sidhartha) this morning was "Please don't go anywhere alone". There are angry people who need a scapegoat. I spoke with one this afternoon who was snickering at the American flags on Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, an Arab neighborhood. Her implication was that the flags wouldn't protect them.

She was shocked that my neighbors and I didn't agree with her. And was totally confused when I suggested she listen to what other people feel. Even terrorist extremists. Not agree with them but listen. At least try to understand what they believe and why they need to harm us. I am tired. M.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Nemesis
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:00 PM

Dear Lepus,

Thanks for those links. Just checking - The cult of martyrdom is characteristic of the Shi'ite branch of Islam (as in Lebanese Shi'ite Militia trained by Iran who blew up 241 American servicemen and 58 French paratroopers in simultaneous attacks in Beirut), whilst Islam condemns sucide as the way to hell and damnation but amongst Islamic scholars the argument has been won by radicals who see it as a legitimate form of Jihad - replacing the term 2Suicide bomber" with Martyrdom operation"

As regards the Taliban (Sunni? Ok?) - I do believe the evidence of my own eyes (filmed summary public executions - women being shot in the back of the head, innocent villagers of different ethnic background to Taliban with their faces cut off, emaciated women begging on the streets, the daily risk of death by women teaching girls (which is forbidden) on and on ad nauseum - as presented by an intrepid expatriate Afghani (with no axe to grind either way) risking her life to find out the truth of what's going on in her homeland. Sorry, I would love to believe it's bullshit and edited film - but so much of it so obviously wasn't. (And I am huge cynic generally of these documentaries)

Regards, Hille

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:12 PM

You're right, Alex. We shouldn't make the mistake we made with Japanese Americans in WW2. I'm glad you posted this message.

DougR

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:36 PM

Also, the "Arab" world didn't want to know when Moslems were being slaughtered in Bosnia/Serbia - because they (the Moslems) there are "white" and "European looking"

Sorry, Hille, that's just not true. There were lots of people from Arab countries who volunteered to fight to protect their co-religionists in the Bosnian war. The way that was seen by Muslims in general was that fellow Europeans didn't care too much about it because the victims were Muslim.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it seems so easy for people to slip into ethnic stereotyping like that. Even when they are with the conscious part of their mind protesting against race hate and sectarianism.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Ma-K
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 08:58 PM

During WW11 I lived a few miles away from the Japanese relocation camp near Cody Wyo. They were US citizens taken from their homes put on trains and taken to the Big Horn Vally to live in long buildings with tar paper on the out side and bare rafters on the inside. Their sons were not forced to fight but went and fought for their country (the US.) Many died. They were not locked up like a prison but there were fences and guards. I have offen thought of the young men visiting their familys when home on leave....I hope and pray that we never do that to anyone again......Mary

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:14 PM

I suspect that one of the goals of the fanatics who did this in the first place (assuming, as being the most likely based on the evidence so far, that they were middle eastern Muslims of some sort or other) was to cause widespread hostility toward, and persecution of, Muslims in general, which would in turn unite Muslims around the world in the anti-US cause.

And it's quite likely to work.

There's a lot of stuff in other places on the net about "ragheads" already.

Peter.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 09:27 PM

Why do people who wouldn't dream of saying "Nigger" feel no compunction about saying "Raghead"? I don't mean Midchuck just now, who was just citing it, but other people even on the Mudcat who have used it directly.

I'd class using that word as being an attack on Arab-Americans (among others). Worse in a way than "Nigger", because there are black people who have used that word, but I doubt very much if anyone has ever used the word "Raghead" except as a contemptuous insult.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:34 PM

Well, Hille, yes, there are executions, "ethnic cleansing," hungry people, and other horrible things in Taleban-ruled Afghanistan. (Though I doubt that you saw footage of little girls being raped by Taleban soldiers)

But these things aren't new to Afghanistan. In fact, before the Taleban took over, things were much worse, a fact that even feminist opposition groups like the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (who suck) freely admit. Women were being raped in the streets, for instance. People were being robbed and murdered by criminal gangs. Compared to some of the warlords who the Taleban displaced, they're practically saints.

Still, like I said, I'd personally like to see their genocidal, Pashtun-centric regime toppled, preferably by a moderate coalition supported by all the peoples of Afghanistan. Yeah, right. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Bert
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 10:54 PM

Well said Alex, thanks for starting this thread and thank you EVERYONE who has resonded to it.

When I worked in Bahrain I shared an office with two Shiite Moslems, one very religious and very kind and gentle, the other, very western and very critical of Shiite religious practices. They were further apart from each other idealogically than they were from me. But they were both nice guys and would do anything for each other and for anyone else.

People are people everywhere and most of them are nice. It's just the few crazies who cause problems.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Troll
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:13 PM

Bert, that mirrors my experience with the Shiites I had for customers when I worked for the Post Ofice.

troll

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Peg
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:16 PM

I heard that the Sikh gentleman on the Amtrak train near Providence was carrying one of the small ritual knives sacred to his religious path.

Received this today; puts an interesting new spin on things:

PFAW STATEMENT ON DIVISIVE RELIGIOUS RIGHT COMMENTS People For The American Way NewsWire

http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0913-128.html

The following is a statement by People For the American Way president RalphG. Neas on divisive comments by religious right leaders:

I am deeply saddened that in the wake of this week's devastating terroristattacks, Religious Right political leaders Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have chosen the path of division rather than unity.

At a time when political leaders of both parties are urging bipartisanship and national unity, it is truly unfortunate that Americans who watched today's edition of Pat Robertson's 700 Club television program received a far different message from Robertson and Falwell.

This is a time for a shared national commitment to bringing those responsible for the terrorist attacks to justice. It is also a time to renew our commitment to protecting the constitutional liberties and democratic values that sustain our free society. Today's comments by Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell can only impede efforts to bring the nation together in pursuit of these goals.

--- Below is a partial transcript of the 700 Club television program from Thursday, September 13, 2001. Also attached is a statement from People For the American Way President Ralph G. Neas.

Partial transcript of comments from the Thursday, September 13, 2001 edition of the "700 Club":

JERRY FALWELL: And I agree totally with you that the Lord has protected us so wonderfully these 225 years. And since 1812, this is the first time that we've been attacked on our soil and by far the worst results. And I fear, as Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, said yesterday, that this is only the beginning. And with biological warfare available to these monsters -- the Husseins, the Bin Ladens, the Arafats - what we saw on Tuesday, as terrible as it is, could be miniscule if, in fact -- if, in fact -- God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.

PAT ROBERTSON: Jerry, that's my feeling. I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population.

JERRY FALWELL: The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this.

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, yes.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

JERRY FALWELL: Pat, did you notice yesterday the ACLU, and all the Christ-haters, People For the American Way, NOW, etc. were totally disregarded by the Democrats and the Republicans in both houses of Congress as they went out on the steps and called out on to God in prayer and sang "God Bless America" and said "let the ACLU be hanged"? In other words, when the nation is on its knees, the only normal and natural and spiritual thing to do is what we ought to be doing all the time -- calling upon God.

PAT ROBERTSON: Amen.

--- Statement by Ralph G. Neas President, People For the American Way September 13, 2001

Like all Americans, we continue to struggle with the aftermath of the devastating terrorist attacks in New York City and at the Pentagon.

We grieve for the victims of these heinous acts. We salute the courage and heroism of so many individuals, from passengers and crew on the hijacked airliners to the police, firefighters, and other rescue workers, many of whom have lost their lives in the line of duty. We praise those political leaders who have acted in ways that have drawn us together in the midst of overwhelming loss. This is a time for bipartisanship. It is a time for making a shared national commitment to bring to justice those responsible and for acting appropriately to prevent future such attacks.

But there are other dangers we must guard against, as well as terrorists. While we seek to defend ourselves against future threats, we must also guard against allowing our own anger and fear to cause us to act against our own interests as a free people. We have already seen pundits and political leaders suggesting that the fight against terrorism requires us to sacrifice the constitutional liberties that are at the core of what it means to be an American. That would be a victory for our nation's enemies.

We have already seen acts of harassment and violence directed against Arab- Americans and Muslim Americans. We call on all Americans to reject that kind of scapegoating and to stand up against it in their own communities. Targeting people based on their ethnicity or religion was not the American Way when Japanese-Americans were taken from their homes and shipped to internment camps during World War II. It is not the American Way today, when Muslim Americans are taunted or attacked on the streets of the country that is their home.

People For the American Way's 500,000 members and activists are guardians of the Constitution and the democratic values that sustain our free society. We will vigorously support the government's efforts to identify those responsible for these acts of terror and to bring them to justice. And we will just as vigorously oppose efforts to exploit this tragedy in ways that diminish the constitutional and civil rights for which generations of Americans -- in the armed forces and social justice movements -- have fought and died. Now, more than ever, we will act to promote and protect the ideals of the American Way.

Copyright 2001, U.S. Newswire

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: sophocleese
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:33 PM

I'm sorry Peg but when I saw this, after having a beer to help me calm down, "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen." for some reason I thought of a roulette wheel.

"And now folks we have an EFFECT we're looking for a cause, can anybody in the audience give us a CAUSE? No? Well let's just roll the old wheel of CAUSES. Place your bets ladies and gentlemen as we spin the dial and try to pinpoint THE CAUSE. Is it the Jews? No... Is it the Niggers? No... Is it the people who drink alcohol on Sundays? No... (really?) And there it is Sirs and Madams (Oh I didn't mean it like that, so sorry, I meant Ladies) We have ABORTIONISTS! There you go folks we got Abortionists as one of the causes. What's another cause? C'mon somebody must have an idea. All right we'll spin the wheel again Ladies and gentlemen. What are we going to see now. The wheel turns and turns and YES! we have a new group to blame. We have Feminists! There you you are Sirs and Madams (please madam! Its not your place to argue with me!)"

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 13 Sep 01 - 11:56 PM

And those aren't even extreme comments on the 700 Club...

And about the Sikh man on the train, Peg, thanks. Here's something about it Providence Journal site:

Providence police detain Amtrak passenger • The train is halted outside Providence Station, and searched for four suspicious men reported by Boston police, the train's origin.

"PROVIDENCE -- As the largest terrorism investigation in U.S. history began yesterday, federal and state authorities focused attention on New England, searching for clues at a Maine airport, a Boston hotel and on an Amtrak train at Providence Station.

A tip and suspicion in Boston led to a frenzied search of a Washington-bound train in Providence yesterday afternoon and the arrest of a 28-year-old Virginia man on misdemeanor weapons charges.

The man, Sher J.B. Singh of Leesburg, Va., had a beard and a green turban, and was held for about six hours at the Providence police station before being released about 8 p.m.

Singh was charged with possession of a knife with a blade more than three inches long, a misdemeanor. Police Chief Richard T. Sullivan said the man had no connection to the terrorist attacks.

"This is a case of mistaken identity," said Singh's wife, Hermani Kaur, in an interview last night, before her husband was released on personal recognizance.

Sher Singh lives in Leesburg, but he and his wife have stayed in the Milford, Mass., area for two years while she is enrolled in dental school at Boston University.

He's an engineer and an active member in the Milford, Mass., Gurdwara, a place of worship for Sikhs. He and several members of the Milford Gurdwara are working on a start-up high-tech company "E-Call Data," said his friend and Gurdwara secretary, Inderpreet Singh.

"Everyone in the community loves him," Inderpreet Singh said. "It's really shocking that he was picked up because of what he looks like."

If he was questioned because of his appearance, he was charged because of a symbol of his faith.

The knife he carried in a sheath strapped across his shoulders is called a kirpan, a ceremonial dagger that's considered a symbol of the Sikh faith. It's a curved, ceremonial dagger that's difficult to open, said Inderpreet Singh.

The kirpan is a symbol, not a weapon, and it's meant to be worn at all times, said Inderpreet Singh.

Since the terrorist acts, Sikhs have become targets of suspicion.

"It's a very tough time for our nation, too, on top of the tragedy and finding the culprits," said Inderpreet Singh. "But just because they look different doesn't mean you can take away their rights."

Hemani Kaur wants an apology from someone, anyone, for the damage they've caused to her husband's reputation.

Shortly before 2 p.m., Boston police called Amtrak police in Providence with a description of four men who boarded a train bound for Washington, with a stop in Providence, said Chief Sullivan.

Amtrak police contacted Providence police, who prepared to find the men and question them. They knew where to look, right down to the exact car on train No. 173.

Police cruisers and undercover cars swerved down Gaspee Street, blocking off the train station. Bomb squads from state police and Providence police pulled up. Bomb-sniffing dogs panted and strained at their leashes.

Uniformed and plainclothes officers from state and local police and the state fire marshal's office swarmed through the station, some ordering the growing crowd back from the building.

The train was stopped on the tracks as the police found the four men who fit the description from Boston. Bomb-sniffing dogs were scouting the luggage and packages around the four men on one of the train cars, Sullivan said.

Drawn by live TV accounts of police detention of the train, a crowd of more than a hundred gathered around the train station and on the nearby State House lawn: men and women in business attire, younger people wearing T-shirts.

As the incident continued, word spread that at least one suspect had been arrested and would be taken away by police. As he was led from the building, some in the crowd lunged toward him. Police kept them away -- but they could not prevent the whoops and jeers.

"Kill him!" one man yelled.

"You killed my brother!" screamed another.

No one seemed to know anything about the man -- nor did they seem to care. Police safely escorted him to a cruiser, which sped off to the Providence police station.

Singh and three other men whose descriptions seemed to match the tip didn't appear to be connected to the terrorism, Sullivan said. The other three men were let go and continued on to their destinations, he said. Singh was held because he was carrying a knife.

Singh was questioned at the police station by local detectives, and agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the Immigration and Naturalization Service, said Maj. Martin F. Hames. He is a native Indian who has been a U.S. citizen for the past two years -- and his description had been considered suspicious by the police. "

>:(

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:10 AM

Ah, yes, nobody [Torquemada] has ever committed acts of bigotry [the Crusades] or violence [Salem, MA] while actively engaged in religion or fighting for The American [manifest destiny] Way [internment of Japanese in WWII]. So, if we pray in schools, we'll all be fine!

Please, let's not turn the USA into the kind of battleground the middle east and some other places are by attacking people and denying them their rights because of ethnicity, religion, etc. Then terrorism has really won.!

G

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Peg
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM

very chilling account of the man being detained on that plane. Thanks. (I think) The mob mentality shall contonue to be just this ugly I am afraid...

:(

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Nemesis
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 02:46 AM

Dear McGrath,

Perhaps I didn't put it very well, when I said "Arab" world I meant nations groupings together comprised of mainly Islamic populations, e.g. Saudi Arabia, Libya, UAE, etc., Governments which were noticeably absent with the sort of funding that might have seriously changed the nature of the conflict in the Balkans. Of course, there were volunteers - I meant those Governments that stayed out of it. I understood that this was/is a reasonably universal truism amongst strategic analysts of the Balkans - blimey, I wouldn't come up with that one by meself :)

Oh, Lepus, jest stop being pedantic - I saw all the things I mentioned, I didn't see the little girls raped - I watched 3 hugely traumatised little girls largely who had seen their mother shot in front of them when the Taliban wanted their house and who where subsequently in the house with these Taliban for three days before they moved on (this was part of a Taliban operation) These little girls were so completely traumatised it was evident that unspeakable things occurred besides well as their mum being shot. I think one might have needed to have seen this documentary and it is probably unfair to be commenting on it when it has not been universally seen.

Anyway, I do know that things were not the best in Afghanistan before - but at least women could work and support themselves, at least women could teach girls with out fear of execution.. So, I do know that the Taliban have cleaned up somethings but at a terrible price..

Hope that clears a couple of points up. Hille

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:22 AM

Well, Hille, I don't know how little girls being traumatised is proof that they were raped. But since I haven't seen Saira Shah's documentary, I can't say much about that. But the fact that Ms.Shah's documentary was filmed with the aid of the RAWA suggests that she DOES have a political agenda and/or and axe to grind.

From what I've read about the film, the execution footage was supplied by RAWA, and I'm guessing that the interviews were arranged by RAWA, as well. Ms.Shah is apparently allowing herself to be used as a tool by a very questionable (IMHO) political organization. Just because it's on tv doesn't make it real or true. Maybe it is, but it sounds to me like typical anti-Islamic propaganda. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: gus C
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 03:42 AM

I've seen two instances of it first hand. Nothing terribly serious just snide mildly hostile words to two diffrent arabian gas station attendants at two diffrent gas stations. It is ugly and wrong. Anyone who thinks like that doesn't realize how much that kind of thought process has already contributed to the nightmare.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 06:14 AM

I saw the effects on the local Irish community after the Manchester bombing and ugly is a very good description. Fortunately, if that experience was anything to go by, you should not worry too much. The midless cretins who threw bricks through the windows of the Irish centre in Cheetham Hill and the thugs who beat up people coming out of Irish music sessions soon forgot. In England they went back to football tribalism and mugging old ladies. I guess in the US they will go back to whatever nefarious activities they got up to before they crawled out from under their stones. They are too stupid to hold an idea for much longer that a day or two.

Neither form of terrorist will win.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 07:04 AM

The Taliban, and the chaos out of which they emerged, were the outcome of the combined cackhandedness of the Russians and the USA. Here is an extract from an article in today's Guardian:

"The Russians... had the support of many urban people, particularly in Kabul. This is why their ally, Najibullah, survived three years after the Russians left...

When the Russians withdrew, they hoped the US would see the benefit of modernisation and encourage the least extreme of the mojahedin to share power with the-then ruler, Najibullah. But Washington was divided between "bleeders", who wanted to exploit Afghanistan to humiliate Moscow, and "dealers", who saw value in keeping the fundamentalists at bay. The bleeders won, paving the way for the Taliban's eventual triumph. So Bin Laden's safe haven in Afghanistan was provided as the result of US policy - not in spite of it."

And the essential lesson which never seems to be learned is that the old dictum "My enemy's enemy is my friend" can never be trusted. If the people running things don't appreciate that, they are just going to sow the seeds for things that could be even worse in the future.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Son of the Mill
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 09:24 AM

It is very hard, when under pressure, to think logicaly.When a popular target is found we all go for it. We all think of Arabs we see on TV are Killers.(US? I MEAN ME) Perhaps not.Take care were we point the bone! Cheers Mal.

Subject: RE: ATTACKS ON ARAB-AMERICANS MUST STOP!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Sep 01 - 10:00 AM

Were we not perceived as a Christian nation, this would not have happened. Dubya needs to be reined in - all this god stuff is just making what happened more RIGHT in the eyes of the perpetrators.

Not all moslems are arab.

Not all arabs are moslem.

Not all Americans are Christian.

Not all Americans believe in gods.

This should be a day of mourning, absolutely, but prayer, again, should be voluntary. Am I the only person outraged by the government daring to order people into houses of worship? What happened to the separation of Church and State? Most arab/moslem nations are theocracies, is that where this country is headed?

I am so very, very afraid. I don't think I've ever been this frightened for us all.