BS: London is a war zone!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:15 AM

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 06 May 18 - 08:26 PM

"As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law or for others property."
Stereotyping racism again Iains

Jim introduced the Word "Travellers" into this thread.
Iains commented in the words shown in Jims post.

Can either Steve or Dtg explain why Iains post at that point was racist ?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:31 AM

"Can either Steve or Dtg explain why Iains post at that point was racist ?"
Can you explain why it is not
TRavellers are a recognised ethnic Group - recent DNA tsts show they have inhabited these island for at least a millenia
Why is it not racist to refer to them a thieves?
What Iains wrote was racial stereotyping
Travellers are the least acquisitive people I have ever met - if they steal it is out of necessity, not to increase their bank account holdings or finance second homes, or live in luxury
That's what all those politicians and bankers who have been caught dipping into the public purse do
We found out the hard way that you never admire anything a Traveller has otherwise you will be given it - never known my bank manager do that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:31 AM

"Can either Steve or Dtg explain why Iains post at that point was racist ?"
Can you explain why it is not
TRavellers are a recognised ethnic Group - recent DNA tsts show they have inhabited these island for at least a millenia
Why is it not racist to refer to them a thieves?
What Iains wrote was racial stereotyping
Travellers are the least acquisitive people I have ever met - if they steal it is out of necessity, not to increase their bank account holdings or finance second homes, or live in luxury
That's what all those politicians and bankers who have been caught dipping into the public purse do
We found out the hard way that you never admire anything a Traveller has otherwise you will be given it - never known my bank manager do that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:47 AM

Jim
I didn't ask you
"Can you explain why it was not" is trawling the bottom of barrel for last resort comments .... not up to your usual standard

Im genuinely interested to see how Steve and Dave define racism because it appears to me that there is a new definition of racism i havnt heard and wondered if they had.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:10 PM

"I didn't ask you "
Whern I was arguing with Iains I didn't ask you
THis is a public forum
"not up to your usual standard"
It's fairly higher than your inability to respond to my question - or any of my other points
I've explained in detail why I belive Iain's comments to be racist and I've listedf in detail the effects comments like his on an entire community who already have enough to cope with
I'd have thought they were worthy of a response, just as I'd have thought Steve's posting above does, especially as it answers many of the points you have raised
Are you really suggesting that an accusation of being thieves aimed at an entire community is not racist?
New set of values on me
I have spent half a lifetime opposing this bigotry
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:12 PM

"As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law or for others property."
This was the posting I responded to by the way
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:17 PM

If Travellers are stereotyped as thieves, then on the basis of Huntley should we be stereotyping white British men as child murderers?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:18 PM

If the same was said about the Tory party would it be racist

Ps I'm NOT a tory supporter in any shape or form

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:22 PM

SPB .. Jim likes historical rants to cover his points

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 18 - 12:23 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about, Kenny. Sorry. My point was while the statistics seem to be indisputable, it is what you make of them that matters. To date Iains has not told us What he makes of them.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:16 PM

"As a group they contain a very visible minority with no respect for the law "

Is there ANY group about which this cannot be said? Are there not MINORITIES of all groups that do not respect the law? Is ANY group TOTALLY without lawbreakers? There are even Amish that are shunned!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:21 PM

Senoufou,

re:"
By being a prospective burglar who makes friends with his very nice victims, and booking an appointment for the burglary! :-) :-) "

Can I make an appointment to politely burgle a few crumpets?   8-{E



( have to be exchanged at some Tavern, though- I doubt I will get 'over the pond' anytime soon. Last over in 1974 or so- to Norway)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:29 PM

Dear Bearded Bruce in my opinion you are correct however I believe Jim likes to play the masochist and I like to oblige him by being the sadist, its a harmless game if played between consenting adults
I asked Steve and Dave because I had already asked Jim and guess what .... no cogent answer

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:33 PM

"white British men as child murderers?"
Or sex traffickers, or rapists, or racists, or gun criminals, or muggers, or paedofiles, or sex pests, or incestuous parents.... all fairly common crimes among the settled population and relatively rare among the Travelling community   
2Jim likes historical rants to cover his points"
And you are extremely fond of slinging out accusations and refusing toi respond to responses
What you are doing in support of Iaian's racism is little short of hit-and-run trolling
If you have an honest argument, why not advance it rather rthan let Iain's take the flak - he, at least has saidf what he believes to be the case - you just hide behind what he says by defending him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:36 PM

"Jim likes to play the masochist "
Now youy are just rsorting to personal s,ears, which is what you accused me of doing
Think you've painted yourself into a bit of a corner on this one
"no cogent answer" and now you are resorting to lies - I have given masses of answers here - you many not accept them, but that's your problem

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 May 18 - 01:51 PM

beardedbruce, of course. Crumpets a-plenty here!
I've also just made some rather nice pancakes rolled up with lemon juice and sugar. Husband is stuffed full already, so you and Backwoodsman are welcome to the coffee cake, nice cups of tea and crumpets. Leave some for the genuine burglars though.

I'm sorry to see generalisations on this thread about travellers.
No group of any sort can be entirely saintly or entirely evil. One tends to remember those who stand out, forgetting the perfectly unassuming ordinary examples.

Prejudice is so destructive of good relations between us all.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:32 PM

Jim the Thread title is "London is a War Zone"
If you aren't going to stick to the subject why should anybody take you seriously .... get a sense of humour ... it'll do you good

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 02:55 PM

"m the Thread title is "London is a War Zone""
So?
The Travellers I speak about were living in London when we knew them
The subject, as far as I'm concerned covers the violence taking place at present involving knives and guns - the OP mentioned guns specifically
I gave an example of a gun crime and someone (an American) advocating that everybody should own a gun, mentioning a Traveller victim of a fatal shooting - where on earth is the thread- drift in that?
It was Iains who introduced the anti- Traveller racism, not me - it was you who took up th cudgels on behalf of his racism - go take it up with yourself
Why are you people so transparent - you pursue an argument quite happily until you find yourselves out of your depth, than you squeal "thread drift" as if you hadn't been part of it.
And do you not realise how utterly stupid it is to come in accusing someone of being insulting (which I haven't) and of not putting up an agrument (which I have) the fail to put up an argument yourself (which you have) and revert to personal insulting (which you also have)
Do you people come with a patent number - you certainly run to a type?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 18 - 03:11 PM

All the comments so far miss the most important fact that I raised that the anachronistic traveller lifestyle inhibits the development of the child in that environment. As pointed out thus can be summarised as poor health care, poor education and a suicide rate among young people off the Richter scale. In any other segment of society exposing a child to such a toxic environment would be regarded as abuse and the children taken away.
As for how I feel about it. I have zero sympathy for a sector of society that thinks it can cling to a nomadic lifestyle in the modern UK. Seasonal work is now performed by Eastern Europeans. You tell me how you can hold a regular job, tax and insure a vehicle, give children regular medical care and schooling while your address is care of the 20 mile layby on the great north road.
   I have lived in countries where a nomadic lifestyle is still the norm. It is not the norm in the UK, it is an anachronism and damages kids. Why do you continually support it Jim? Do you hate children?

"Travellers are the least acquisitive people I have ever met - if they steal it is out of necessity, not to increase their bank account holdings or finance second homes, or live in luxury"

Hey jimmy are you for real?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 07 May 18 - 05:02 PM

A government review of the law and powers to deal with unauthorised caravan sites and developments has been announced today (5 April 2018) by Housing Minister Dominic Raab.

Unauthorised sites can cause significant distress for both the settled and nomadic communities – an issue increasingly raised in Parliament over recent months.

https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2010-12/2445

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pictured-tonnes-rubbish-dumped-travellers-10313042

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 08:16 PM

Your racismm, your ignorance and your inhumanity appears to know no bounds and your return to your thuggishly bullying behaviour is an indication that you know it
Your flaunting the fact that Travellers are being ethnically cleansed by a govenmet that will not let them stop and will give them nowher to live places you beneath contempt
You would have had a true frienfd in Harry Watton - you must be one of hese Christians I keep reading about!

RUBBISH DUMPED BY SETTLED PEOPLE
https://www.google.ie/search?q=British+dustmans+strike+photos&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwxt-_5fTaAhVGKMAKHe_uA-UQsAR6BAgAEC0&biw=1366&bih=637

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Britain%27srubbish+strewn+countryside&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPpZL_5fTaAhVkBMAKHbCQCAcQsAR6BAgAECw&biw=1366&bih=637

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Britains+polluted+rivers&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi5yJyY5vTaAhVLLMAKHdaSAVMQsAR6BAgAEDI&biw=1366&bih=637

COFFEE CUPS

BRITAIN ONE OF THE MOST LITTERED NATIONS

A CAR DUMPED EVERY THIRTY MINUTES

RECYCLING CRISIS

PASS IT ON TO THE POORER NATIONS

CHEWING GUM

CHEMICAL WEAPONS WASTE

BRITAIN A GIANT RUBBISH BIN

ELECTRICAL GOODS

Makes the rubbish dumped by travellers somewhat insignifican't, doesn't it

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 18 - 08:19 PM

Sorry - missed a bit
"Hey jimmy are you for real?"

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 09:44 AM
Sweeping statements from shaw, no evidence to back it up. Now who else does that ad nauseum?
I recommend you get a new hymn book, some of your verses are misleading if not totally erroneous.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 03 Apr 18 - 03:23 PM
Didn't do you much good, did it?
A typical attempted put down by shaw and in particularly bad taste!
Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 04 Apr 18 - 06:12 AM
Chewing on lemons again. Pure gibberish.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 04:19 AM
Of course should anyone demand some proof to justify the bizarre statement above, it will be a forlorn hope.
The man is away with the faeries, as per usual. Trying to make a point by gross exaggeration and outright untruths. The only thing he insists on deleting from his nonsense is "once upon a time." and then he has the audacity to wonder why some treat him as a fool.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 11:34 AM
The world according to little jimmie!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 05 Apr 18 - 03:56 PM
Go and infest another   thread jimmie. This one was progressing quite well until you started your usual frothing. How many times do different people have to spell things out to you, before you start paying attention. Are you stupid?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:17 AM
just knew it was too good to be true! Jimmies found his paintbox.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 05:57 AM
Stop posting rubbish and I will no longer treat you as the resident clown. It is very easy!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 06:46 AM
Most posting here prefer a semi serious debate on various topics interspersed by the occasional pisstake.
You on the other hand demand that all adhere to your often weird interpretation of events that you back up by "made up shit" and blustering bullying attacks on all who hold a counter view. How many people does it take to tell you this, before you recognise your own failings?
Were I to list all your silly postings, the internet would overload and grind to a halt. Now go away and stop behaving like millenial!
Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 06 Apr 18 - 10:47 AM
"or shut up"   I dare you!! It will be an insurmountable challenge.
Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 08 Apr 18 - 10:51 AM
While you continue to play the clown. Have you any idea what the word racist means? You scatter it about in your various diatribes like confetti. Is it an incantation that is supposed to stifle all further argument?
________________________________________
Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 06:09 AM
CARE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF JIMMIE? DISHONESTY?
more drivelling nonsense of the resident clown!

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 06:21 AM
Other people have been banned from this forum for far lesser offences than Jim's deliberately insulting lies.

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 09 Apr 18 - 11:18 AM
Hoops, Hoops, Hoops!
Is this a new game? Can anybody play?????
From: Iains - PM
Date: 11 Apr 18 - 05:48 AM
If you read the link I supplied the answer would be in front of you.
You know you can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink.
Here yer go. "2nd attempt". Would you like it displayed in 4 foot fluorescents as well?

Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 12 Apr 18 - 11:55 AM

Trust little jimmie to pop up and introduce Jews into yet another thread. Can some king moderator delete his posts before he destroys yet another thread.
Subject: RE: BS: On the cause of Famines
From: Iains - PM
Date: 13 Apr 18 - 06:02 AM
"Had the Irish Famine occurred in , say the Midlands or the North of England and had been handled in the manner it was in Ireland, it would have brought about mass unrest, even revolution, as it did here "
Stop making arguments up. You have zero justification for such a statement. It is merely your opinion, dressed up as false facts.
Have you no shame?
You are merely troublemaking as usual.


Keep it up - plenty more
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:31 PM

Are the insults personal enough yet to warrant the closing of this toxic thread?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 May 18 - 11:57 PM

this thread is starting to look like a flame war zone...

My mrs works with traveler kids whenever they are occasionally brought to school..
She likes these kids and enjoys working with them.

[I believe she also makes home visits to camp sites to discuss educational needs with the families prior to joining school,
but can't confirm this as she is asleep right now]

But from her point of view she finds it frustrating and disappointing
when they are making good progress with education,
and socialising well with other kids,
only to be withdraw by their parents...

Just contributing this from a reasonably neutral corner...

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:09 AM

Well I think the best way is for Jim and Ian to take their spat elsewhere. Maybe e-mails to each other.

THen the rest of us shut up.

Then mudcatters who actually live in London, tell us....are you living in a war zone?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:23 AM

As a Youth-Worker back in the '80s and '90s, at a Youth Centre which served a school catchment area with a couple of 'tough'estates, in a town with an established, council-maintained Traveller Site, I found that the Traveller kids would stick with, and stand up for, their own kind if they felt under attack, physically or verbally, but otherwise they were no more difficult to deal with than the Settled kids.

Within both groups we had youngsters who were thieves and had to be watched closely, some were anti-social and anti-authority, some tended towards vandalism (which I took to be an element of their anti-social/anti-authority stance), a few could be violent, but most were decent young people who responded positively to being listened to and treated as young adults (which is exactly what they were), but I couldn't say that either group was 'better' or 'worse' than the other.

Youth Work, although a part of the education system, was (still is?) based on the 'befriending' concept rather than a teacher/student relationship, so we often found that youngsters who were regarded as 'difficult' in school formed happy, respectful relationships with adult Youth Workers - this applied equally to the Travellers as it did to the Settled community.

Just my two-penn'orth, based on my only experience of regular contact with Travellers.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 12:41 AM

Morning, Al. I guess I'm not the only one who can't sleep! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 03:04 AM

"Are the insults personal enough yet to warrant the closing of this toxic thread?"
I've finished with this feller Baccie - I think my point has been made
This was about gun crime (among other things) and if the example I gave of that can lead a suggestion that the victim of one of those gun crimes got what he deserved for being a member of a "anachronistic" cultural group and then lead to a vicious racist attack on that group, it seems to me that the future of any discussions are prone to being used by extremists to express their extremism
I aplogise for my part in what has happened - I attempted to illustrate my belief that crimes of violence are largely due to the ability to obtain weapons and the mindset that this establishes.
I will not continue with this here, but I do intend to take it elsewhere
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 May 18 - 03:38 AM

"Then mudcatters who actually live in London, tell us....are you living in a war zone?"

That is a gross exaggeration on Trumps part. Violent crime is hitting the news headlines at the moment, as it happens compritively rarely, so when it does happen it is more likely to find its way into the news, whereas homicide in America is so much an everyday event that only massacres are considered newsworthy.

The issues, as far as I am concerned are:

(1) Carrying guns is illegal.
(2) Cuts in policing means that their is a lot less crime prevention and a lack of resources to follow up minor crime.
(3) We have had 8 years of government policy which, with the help of the rabid right-wing press has been marginalising and dividing societies - the same happened under Thatcher.
(4) 8 years of successive cuts to funding has meant that their is no funding for initiatves that bring about community cohension of which breakdown of law and order is a symptom.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 03:41 AM

Yes Jim, I agree.

The Traveller you refer to was shot in the back whilst running away. That isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, 'self-defence', it's revenge, pure and simple. The death-penalty no longer exists in the U.K., and when it did exist, it was applied after due process of law, and it was not applicable, in the 20th century at any rate, to acts of burglary.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 18 - 03:42 AM

"Your racismm, your ignorance and your inhumanity appears to know no bounds and your return to your thuggishly bullying behaviour is an indication that you know it
Your flaunting the fact that Travellers are being ethnically cleansed by a govenmet that will not let them stop and will give them nowher to live places you beneath contempt"

and you are a bigoted old fool that feels he can hurl insults for no reason. Whatever gives you the right to suggest it is perfectly fine to disregard the law whenever you say so? I do not know what mental gyrations you go through to justify the above attack on me but lets be having some proof from any postings of mine to back up your string of insults. You are the bully on this forum, as your behaviour clearly demonstrates. Is this thread another you can claim as a scalp when it is closed.You are a disgrace, as are your arguments and the spelling you present them with.
Better men than you have been banned from this forum!

Everything I have presented is clearly evidenced by data in the public domain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/about-30-of-children-in-care-cases-come-from-minorities-1.2448115

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:17 AM

Hmmmm! Well at least the Mods can't blame me when this thread is closed.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:23 AM

I've taken this argument elsewhere and because of Iain's response there, have requested that the moderators intervene to prevent the "Thread closure" thread being closed
Can I beg their indulgence and make the same request here
This appears to me little less than trollism gone viral
Sorry for the interruption (from both of us, I hope)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:30 AM

Being labelled a racist repeatedly by the sour little scouser I find upsetting. He has zero justification for using such an epithet and cannot provide it when repeatedly asked. He just froths even more inanities and then claims he is being talked down to and bullied. What a pathetic little creature.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:47 AM

To those not involved in all this - I've just contacted a moderator and reported this so I hope it will be nipped in the bud sometime today - ignore it until that happens
Sorry again
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Iains
Date: 08 May 18 - 04:53 AM

So have I. The latest diversion raised interesting questions about the assimilation of minority groups into wider society. But laddie with the blunderbus destroyed any hope of that concept being developed.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:02 AM

If the statistics show that a particular group of people

human beings are supremely evolved to discern patterns. And if a person looks like trouble then we are wary. And if the pattern does suggest that 10% of a group (howsoever defined) cause PTSD for the rest of your life why wouldn't you be wary? Voicing wariness is at the same end of the spectrum as racism. They may come from different angles but the wariness is no different.

Now - has anyone been to Stow on the Wold Horse Fair? Half the shops are closed. Shops like the sweet shop, that would be of interest to the attendees, and campers. Pure statistics. The losses outweigh the profit margins when the Fair is on. It is cheaper to be closed. And when I went, the campers were quite distinct as a group. And as friendly as I am to strangers I didn't have much in common with them.

The same would be said of similar peoples in big cities like Lundun, innit? Particularly if they wielded a knife.

When crossing the road, we look both ways, why wouldn't we look a people both ways and come to some decision re the gamble and the costs therefrom?

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:36 AM

Difficult situation: being a pensioner, living in an isolated house and being burgled by a gang of thieves of any racial or ethnic group...

who knows what you might have done in panic...
judge not lest ye be judged, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 05:44 AM

"judge not lest ye be judged, Jim."
The murder I gave as an example was not carried out "in a panic" Al
It was a cold blooded and calcumated execution of a man incapacitated and lying on the ground, having been beaten by a fence pole and shot
The killer had enough time for thought to go in, load his gun again and kill a wounded man - cold-blooded murder
Even the farmer knew what he had done was a crime when he went to court - he fully expected a "guilty" verdict asnd was prepared for one
The "not Guilty verdict was, I believe the result of the racism towards Travellers that pervades Ireland
The situation in Ireland with Travellers is that they are being "hated" out of existence
This was the result of such hatred
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 06:55 AM

Clearly the shooting of a Traveller that Jim speaks of is not the one I mentioned. Mine was the Tony Martin incident in Norfolk a number of years ago.

Just thought I'd mention that in order to avoid confusion (I seem to have been confused anyway!).

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:12 AM

the 'particular' seems to have overwhelmed the 'general' in this discussion...???

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:27 AM

And to be fair to Dave, who started the thread, it seems to have drifted a very long way from his topic.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:34 AM

i was thinking of the tony martin case as well. i dunno about traveller situation in Ireland, but a mate of mine has live down the road from the traveller encampment in Slough. His kids played with the traveller kids, and his son has become impressed with the way of life, and pretty much adopted it.

i won't say there is never any conflict, but there are examples of everything working out in a nice friendly way. perhaps it would be an idea to concentrate on the more positive aspects.

the tv does seem to concentrate on all the crazy ones - bare knuckle fighters, crooks who daren't show their faces on tv, jeremy kyle types.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:52 AM

It has indeed wandered, BWM, but these things do. At least it has not been completely taken over and derailed. Yet!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 May 18 - 07:55 AM

Fingers crossed, Dave!

And a nice post from Big Al - balanced, measured, and thoughtful.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 08 May 18 - 08:06 AM

Back to the subject
A very good discussion on the BBC Radio2 Jeremy Vine show today about how the knife problem in Glasgow was tackled with positive results not perfect results but positive results

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 May 18 - 08:17 AM

I still feel that for a person to lose their life (no matter who they are or what they've done or to which group they belong) is a tragedy, and I feel so sorry for their family.

And I also feel that generalisations and 'tarring everyone with the same brush' is dangerous and leads to racism, hatred, ostracising and violence.

There have been problems with a group of travellers in Norfolk quite recently, in particular in Cromer last year during the Cromer Festival. But even Norfolk Police issued a statement later saying it would be wrong to include ALL travellers in a blanket condemnation (quite rightly).

We get Bank Holiday bikers having fights sometimes in Yarmouth, drunks getting violent in Norwich after the clubs close, drug dealers and their 'customers' being attacked or even killed. It all goes on, and not just in London.
However, the words 'war zone' is just journalistic inflammatory language aimed at firing up reactions and provoking anger.
The solution to that is not to become angry, heated, racist, defensive, accusatory and so on. That would just be playing right into their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 08:32 AM

Where in Norfolk are you Sen?
"And a nice post from Big Al - balanced, measured, and thoughtful."
As usual
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 May 18 - 08:45 AM

A small village in the Breckland area, not that far from Dereham Jim.
Certainly no war zone round here - totally silent most of the time, and if one even sneezes everybody would know about it!

Subject: RE: BS: London is a war zone!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 18 - 09:25 AM

" totally silent most of the time, and if one even sneezes everybody would know about it!"
We are in a similar place here, the locals say "everybody here knows what hand you use to wipe your bum"
Less refined but just as succinct
Jim