BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 11:42 PM

I haven't read any of the books, I never cared much for fantasy, and I generally avoid action films, so I'm probably not the person who should have anything to say about it all. I also know not to trust screenplays to represent the original literature, so anything that didn't make sense to me I'll assume was lost in translation.

Nevertheless, I did like the movies for sheer entertainment. I liked the first two better. I didn't think the third one was bad, I just got way overloaded on battle scenes and sort of went numb. I don't think I have the capacity for suspension-of-credulity required to really *love* them but I knew that going in so I won't complain.

(Of course, it didn't help that they went and killed off Sean Bean in the first one. *Sniff*)

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 08:30 AM

I wouldn't call Anne of Green Gables a Domestic Goddess. More of a sleuth, if anything, just came up agaist different types of puzzles.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: GUEST,Chris B (born again scouser)
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 03:34 PM

Des, I tend to agree about the Frodo and Sam characters. Personally, I'd have let same carry the ring as he seems to at least know what he's doing. Frodo keeps putting the damn thing on and nearly getting them all killed. I think Frodo's a bit crap, personally.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 10:21 PM

Haven't seen ROTK yet... I have to get into the right space for these things as the first one left me a complete basket case. My son had to guide me out of the theater as I couldn't see..
Tolkien's original work is a truly epic achievement- read the Silmarillion, the Lost Tales and all of his other "out-takes"and publications, and you will truly appreciate the scope of what he did. Jackson HAS done an amazing job with it and has had to make decisions in much the same way Tolkien himself in order to present a coherent final product. I don't approve of all the decisions Jackson made, but perhaps we might have preferred Tolkien making different choices in his creation if we had knowledge of his original intentions and processes?
My BIGGEST objection to Jackson's interpretation is the lack of music as an integral part of the characters' culture.Tolkien based his people on the Northern Europeans, all of whom have passed down history and mythology in musical form through the oral tradition. In the books, they naturally respond to their environment or a particular situation with a song or dance. Perhaps Jackson didn't want it to seem like a "musical" but, really a song around the fire, or as encouragement, or as a battle cry would have been appropriate! The scene where the Rohirrim sing as they go riding off was tremendously stirring in the book and felt like "just another battle" in the Two Towers movie. My son tells me it's much the same in ROTK.
   I'm really surprised that, on this forum for folk music, nobody else has said anything about this glaring omission. Perhaps I am more sensitive because my interest in Tolkien as a teenager is one of the reasons I make my living as a folk musician today (sources and all that)
Best- Julia

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Robin2
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 10:42 PM

OK, what is the name of the song Annie Lennox sings in the film?

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 10:43 PM

anyway=i saw it off a dbd, off dodgy dave, he lent me it, because i know him. and i think its a big loads of shit, and i dont know waht you all going on about, its crap,
its boring abd rubbisgh.
i glad i didient buy it,
= if you want to buy it, jusrt see dodgy dave, but its crap, dont waste you moneyey.
i think its 5 quid on dvd, but crap.john

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 10:46 PM

it is shit anyway, and i not know coninc geious, is just shit and boring, theres no guns in it, and no killings in it, its crap.johjnn

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Peg
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 11:02 AM

Annie Lennox sings a song entitled "Into the West" over the final credits (well worth watching for the fine watercolor   drawings).

It seemed to me there was a great deal more music (diagetic, in other words, occuringon screen as performed by characters)in the third film than in the previous two; and very fine music it was.   The scene where Pippin (Billy Boyd)sings a song he apparently wrote himself (the tune anyway, I heard) is simply stunning and I think it's an emotional centerpiece of the film...

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 12:09 PM

No killing? Dodgy Dave must have palmed you off with a different movie, John.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:06 PM

Just for grins John what in your view are some great movies? I'd bet you'd be surprized what I think are great films. (eg: The Bishop's Wife w/ Cary Grant, Wee Willie Winkie w/ Shirley Temple, Alien and Aliens, The Sea Hawks w/ Errol Flynn, The Little Mermaid and The Lion King.)

Don

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 09:20 PM

LOL

Stop it, jOhn, please! You're killin' me!


ROTFL

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Hollowfox
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 05:18 PM

Yeesh, everybody's got to gripe. If people go to the movies expecting a major life transformation, they're bound to be disappointed.
Half the critics say it was too long, and half say the good bits were excised. Myself, I'm blessed with an opera-goer's butt. Four hour performance? No problem!
I have yet to see a movie that I wouldn't have tweaked a bit somewhere, but I can see why decisions were made regarding all sorts of things to keep the story flowing smoothly. The attention to detail just blows me out of the water.
And anything that brings folks to read the books, that gets somebody to think about honor and doing the right thing even if it's going to be hard and hurt you...well, that's a good thing as far as I can see.
My favorite little thing - when Aragorn is crowned, the first thing he does is give a little sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:46 AM

Thanks for pointing that out, Mary- I caught that bit, too.

I have to confess I "watched" more than half of it with my eyes closed- I'm the world's worst movie companion, too overwhelmed by visual images, especially bloody, violent, or horrific. But I have to agree that as a film, ROTK is magnificent in scope.

I have been a LOTR fundamentalist for most of my life, so went to these movies deciding to take them on their own merits, not as gospel. They are as well done as they could possibly be, and there are some brilliant moments. Expecially in ROTK, the scenes between hobbits- Frodo and Sam, Merry and Pippin, all of them together- show the depth of friendship and bonding between them. I think I heard that when the initial work on the films began, the first thing Jackson did was have the four hobbit actors spend 3 months together in NZ developing that bond. It worked!

My favorite scene was Frodo's waking up and being greeted by the members of the Fellowship. The lingering look between him and Sam was priceless.
As I said, most of the "noisy" scenes I only saw from between my fingers, so can't comment on those!

Namarie,

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Hollowfox
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:48 PM

Guest Oo-Ah, if you didn't like Boromir's death scene, don't ever watchthe death scene in Kurosawa's Throne of Blood. You thought Boromir took too many arrows... And speaking in my capacity as a bloodthirsty viewer, that first shot (upper lobe of the left lung) wouldn't have killed him instantly. and he had enough adrenaline to keep him going longer than otherwise. Likewise that second arrow (too low). But the aggregate of the three is feasable, IMHO.
Julia, The lack of music and declamation is understandable, given the choices that must be made for the flow of the plotline and the overall viweing time. Myself, I'd love to have it all in, but I love opera, Beowulf, Shakespearean plays, etc. But if these movies lead some folks to try out the books, and some of those folks go on to try the "real" stuff that Tolkien loved andd drew from, then I am content with the sacrifice of my preferences.
I can't find who was interested in non-Swann Tolkien music CD's, but for what it's worth, I found one at Borders Bookstore (chain store in the USA). It's called At Dawn In Rivendell: selected songs and poems from The Lord of the Rings. It's performed by the Tolkien Ensemble and Christopher Lee. The music is by Caspar Reiff and Peter Hall. Apparently it is part of a series (An Evening in Rivendell and A Night in Rivendell have been produced already). It's published by L.A.G. Records, a subsidiary of Decca Records. I bought it mostly for Christopher Lee's readings (love that voice!), but the music isn't too bad.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:58 PM

I'm ging again tomorrow:-) Can't wait! Interesting point about the death scene Hollowfox. Reminded me of the death scene of Umslopagas in, possibly Kings Solomans mines or She? Did that only happen on the written page or did someone turn it into film? Or was that in a different book alltogether?

Ah-ha! Quest for the new year:-) Dig out the old Rider-Haggards!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:31 PM

A coworker of mine was out hunting and shot a deer in the chest. He could see *large* amounts of blood spurting from the wound but the deer ran a good eighth of a mile before it collapsed. Adrenaline can do that.

I'm not a connoisseur of death scenes but I thought the end of Boromir one was probably one of the more believable.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:44 PM

Thanks for the message, Hollowfox- I appreciate the reply and you are probably right...sigh. Just a song or two intead of one more orc- killing? Perhaps? oh well.
I'll check out the Tolkien ensemble- I have heard that they at least have some integrity - as opposed to Leonard Nimoy or the Gothic /death/ thrash/gnash metal groups or the wussy new-age nebulae that seem to populate the Tolkien Music sites.
Best- Julia

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: LadyJean
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 01:07 AM

As a girl I owned a copy of "Down to Middle Earth" by the Hobbits. "Down to Middle Earth I mean. You and I could make that scene I know." I have a horrible feeling it's now out on CD, and I'll get a copy from my sister.
Despite their faults, I loved the LOTR movies, and I cried buckets during the last one.   
Their Gollum didn't scare the hell out of me. The gollum I imagined, when I first read "The Hobbit" did. But I really didn't care. I am re reading the books. It is good to see old friends again. I have a serious case of the hots for Vigo Mortenson. And it's nice to be reminded that I was once a girl who wrote FRODO LIVES! anywhere I could.



































FRODO LIVES!

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: darkriver
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 04:02 AM

I've tried to avoid joining in the fray, but ... I ... can't ... resist ... the ... overwhelming ... power... drawing me ...

Anyway, I've read the books and enjoyed them and have respect for Tolkein as a scholar and a writer. Having said that, I've enjoyed the movies immensely, too. They're just different things.

I went to Gallaudet College, a 4-year liberal-arts school for the deaf in Washington, and when I wrote papers for classes, I wrote them in the best English I could. But when I had to get up and read those papers to the class, I would never sign what I had written (as most students did); instead, I would re-conceive of them in American Sign Language and sign that, which meant that the two versions were not very like each other--yet I considered them to be the same paper. In the same way, movies are too different from books to expect to see a book filmed. Jackson's achievment here was to take the Ring material and from them create some dazzling films.

Not that the movies are consistently good. As others have pointed out, the casting of Frodo was a mistake (and I like Elijah Wood in other roles he's been in). (It could've been worse--they might've picked Marlon Brando as Gandalf....) I wasn't as bothered by the "Let's hunt some orc" as others were--to me, it's the dwarf-tossing jokes that were inexcusable. (BTW, the "let's hunt" line was at the end of the first movie, not the second.)

I see nothing wrong with the addition and simplification of dialogue. The death scene of Boromir was nothing like the book at all, but much better; the dialog between Aragorn and Boromir moved me very much. The addition of a song sung by Merry during the last cavalry charge raised the hair on my arms. The scene with the hobbits in the tavern at the end, as Animaterra points out, covers so much emotional ground. So I think that most if not all of Jackson's choices were really good ones.

must... stop ... driveling ...
now

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM

I saw it today. I loved it on the whole but I have mixed feelings about some bits of it.

I would gladly have restored Christopher Lee's 12 minutes and lost the schmaltzy goop in the last 10 minutes.

The camera work was stunning, several times I had to reach for the armrest as vertigo struck.

The beacons were amazing.

But most amazing of all, Pippin's song, whilst around him battle raged and his liege stuffed himself with squirty tomatoes.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: LadyJean
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 11:32 PM

This doesn't have a lot to do with LOTR, but I thought you'd like to know that Sarah Zettel's book, "Shadows Of Camelot", will be out in May of this year. I have an uncorrected proof of the British Edition, (She sent me the Brit edition because the cover art is so beautiful.) and it's pretty good.
It calls itself "An Arthurian Romance". But it's no bodice ripper.
I thought I would mention it, in that last May, I posted a thread asking for pre Arthurian ballads, for Sarah's book. Thanks all you mudcatters.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: LadyJean
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:21 PM

Songs that should not have been written:

The Tune is, The Ants Go Marching.

The Ents go marching one by one Hurrah! Hooray!
The Ents go marching one by one Hurrah! Horray
The Ents go marching one by one to Isengard to have some fun
The Ents go marching "Though Isengard be strong and hard and cold as stone and bare as bone. We go, we go, we go to war to hew the stone and break the door.
Ents go marching two by two, Hurrah Hurray! The Ents go marching two by two Hurrah Hurray
The Ents go marching two by two, and Sauruman's days will soon be through. The Ents go marchint "Though Isengard, etc."
The Ents go marching three by there Hurrah Hooray!
'Cause it isn't nice to hurt a tree.
The Ents go marching four by four Hurrah Hooray!
To hew the stone and break the door.
The Ents go marching five by five Hurrah Hooray!
And Isengard will not long survive.
The Ents go marching six by six Hurrah Hooray!
'Cause somebody turned their friends into sticks.
The Ents go marching seven by seven Hurrah Hooray!
And I don't think orcs go to heaven.
The Ents go marching eight by eight Hurrah Hooray!
They're breaking down old Isengard's gate.
The Ents are marching nine by nine Hurrah! Hooray!
And Merry and Pippin are feeling fine.
The Ents are marching ten by ten Hoorah! Hooray!
To the aid of the Rohan men.

With appologies to all former Girl Scouts, Ants, Ents, and lovers of good music everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 12:52 AM

Just saw it.
Please forget all my ranting above about Gray Havens not being there and/or the "Scouring of the Shire". No matter. It's all done brilliantly. Even better than the books in many ways.

I give it a 9 out of 10----maybe an eight and a half for the orcs being way too over the top (I thought) and the Ents being a rather silly creation of Tolkien's. Tom Bombadil was a bit too too---and was better tossed away.

Leaves me wondering what might be added in the extended version later. It seems they arrived at the Crack Of Doom rather suddenly--after not being shown to be "right there"--as they seemingly were.
But again, no matter. It is a stunning motion picture.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:28 PM

Well, I went to it with my girlfriend who hadn't read the books and she thought the movies were great, but should have ended after the crowning and reunion of Aragorn and Arwen.

But I was glad to see the pub scene back in the Shire. I thought that was an excellent Jackson addition/alteration... the 4 hobbits come back home to the Shire being just as they left it and their neighbours ignorant of what they had done. But the knowing look between them as they clinked mugs in full silent knowledge of what they had gone through just to keep things exactly the same as they had loved them. I thought the movie could end there; I didn't need the big melodramatic farewell at the Havens after that.

But, as Uncle Art said above, no matter. The movie was fantastic and I'm still blown away that it was finally made at all. Gotta give Peter Jackson credit; it took guts, vision, and love to take on and finish that project. Here's to him!

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Cluin
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:38 PM

ROTK Extended DVD release set for December, they're still saying. I know what I'm getting myself for Xmas.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:59 PM

Definately be on my list.

Pity the Scouring of the Shire was missed out in the final part. I thought it an important part of the story as it did show that the Shire (an idylic setting) was not immune to the ravages caused by the Ring.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Pogo
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:15 PM

I agree, really hit it home for me in the book, it made Frodo and Sam's struggle and suffering all the more poignant.

well I had some small gripes...so far as books-to-movies goes I'll always love the books. However I was pleased beyond measure to see one of my favorite books come to life on the big screen. I believe the first movie was the one that was most elegantly done...this last one felt a bit rushed, put together hurriedly kind of thing but that may have also been due to all the cutting of scenes and so forth. Still I enjoyed it and I'll definitely be getting the extended DVD. The scenes that really hit me were Faramir's suicide charge (although interspersing Denethor's sloppy eating habits was a bit of overkill for me IMO), the beacon lighting of course and the Rohirrim just slamming into the enemy.

and was the emergence of the Witch King in the second or third movie? I can't remember it all just sort of blurs together :)anyways I thought the special effects for that scene was outstanding as well

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 03:56 AM

I am looking forward to it as well. Glad it is out for Christmas - Over the holidays I can have a day watching all three extended editions:-)

Anyone for 12 or so hours in front of the screen...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 04:12 AM

I daresay that when they say 'December' they are well aware of 3 days holiday and the major spendfest that Christmas has become. Personally, I'm happy to wait. It was a great film and I'm sure the extra 50 mins or so can only improve it (especially if it restores Christopher Lee's missing bits), but I've waited so long, another few weeks isn't that much more.

Be wary of where you buy it though - the price of the last extended (with the statue of Gollum) varied greatly from £45 to £95. Amazon had the best deal.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 05:33 AM

I do not know where the exhibition is now but two years back I was in NZ visitng my son and in the Tepapa Museum in Wellington they had an enormous LOTR exhibition.

It was superb, big displays of all the armour and clothing used (never replaced just repaired so it got tattier as time went by)as well as a lot of video on how the film was put together and how the actors were trained in their roles.

If it come to a city near you it is well worth the effort to go and see.

Subject: RE: BS: LOTR ROTK - Just seen it. Brilliant!
From: Cluin
Date: 08 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM

Liz, you don't have to get the collectible(?) statue with the package. Save some bucks and buy the 4 DVD set alone; It should be packaged like the 1st two, this time in blue.