BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,MarkS(on the road)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:10 AM

Genie
It's not hard to believe that it happened, but I seriously question the motivation of whoever may have done it. Todays political climate has given us groups like "Crash the Tea Party", and folks like the Democratic Party activist in New Hampshire, who was reported in NowHampshire.com as recruiting others to attend Teapary gatherings holding up "birther" signs and making disparaging racial remarks.
I'm not taking sides here, as much as lamenting the overt dishonesty of political discourse these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:30 AM

MarkS: Todays political climate has given us groups like "Crash the Tea Party", and folks like the Democratic Party activist in New Hampshire, who was reported in NowHampshire.com as recruiting others to attend Teapary gatherings holding up "birther" signs and making disparaging racial remarks.

What a prick. Teabaggers are more than capable of making fools of themselves without help from a fool from the other side of the aisle.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Genie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 01:50 AM

Mark, I think two things are important to remember when we deal with media coverage of any event (e.g., a protest):
1. The media will focus on the most bizarre, outrageous people or incidents -- picking out a few from the hundreds or thousands who participated. (Ratings, controversy, don't ya know?)
2. It is very hard to know whether the kooks, vandals, and rabblerousers are actually part of the group that's organizing the gathering or whether they are "plants."

I don't think we should judge any group by it's most extreme members.


That said,
when "spokespeople" like Michele Bachman, Glenn Beck, Liz Cheney and POTENTIAL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE Sarah Palin come out with outrageous challenges and epithets, I think that really does shed a bad light on a movement. (The same could be said of some of the "leaders" of the student antiwar movement back in the '60s, btw.)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Genie
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 01:52 AM

Right, Alex.

The "Tea Partiers" do need to be infiltrated. But not by people trying to outdo them in outrage and idiocy, but by other populists who share many of their legitimate concerns and maybe can help direct their ire towards the forces that are their real enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:05 AM

****~~~S-I-G-H~~~****

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:16 AM

I remember a time, not too long ago, when people would complain that there really was no difference between Democrats and Republicans, that they were both saying the same thing. I don't think people would make that accusation now. The righties and lefties both stick to there ideologies, and there's no longer any room for us in the middle - and common sense and compromise and good manners went out the window long ago.

I suppose other factors are involved, but I blame most of the polarization of the US on the absolutism of the media - talk radio, FoxNews, and the Internet.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:32 AM

"important to remember when we deal with media coverage of any event (e.g., a protest):
1. The media will focus on the most bizarre, outrageous people or incidents "

When the Qld Premier Joh - a rabid right wing anti-intellectual! - got his 'honorary doctorate' a rather large bunch of us old timers came out of the woodwork, and showed our displeasure at the Qld University and Joh. He had wanted to dress his 'Special Branch' police in brown shirts, btw, but those with a knowledge of history were able to convince him that would be a VERY dumb provocative thing to do! :-0

When The REAL Doctorate candidates came out in their turn, I led the cheer "for the REAL Doctorates - they EARNED theirs!" - I got a couple of smiles and a few 'thanks' from some of them as they walked right past me! :-)

Now a handful of eager people (girls mostly) got carried away, and began thumping on the massively high glass windows of Mayne Hall (btw, Mr Mayne was a very rich early Brisbane settler, who got his financial start in life by a nasty murder and theft of a massive amount of money for the time - and did a deathbed confession - his children never bred and left all their money to charities, including the Qld University) which being extra specially made as cutting edge glass manufacture! about 30 feet tall, began to resonate, and one eventually cracked - they stopped then - as they had MADE their protest. THAT caused a furore, btw, as some of 'the world's top architects!!!!! (Qld Uni graduates!!!) had designed those 'special' windows as high wind cyclone proof.... :-) They were later replaced by many much smaller chunks of glass! But that's another story! :-0

When word came that HE (it was rumoured that God whispered personally in his ear, asking for advice!) was arriving, we all fell back about 100 feet away, and suddenly all 30 of the most vocal rabble rousers were left crowded in front of the doors, sheepishly trying to hide behind each other! We sent up the chant "Special Branch" - for they WERE the elite police section.... :-)

On TV the clips showed Joh fighting his way thru a crowd thronging and pushing close to him - wasn't ANY of us - just 'his police minders' and TV reporters!!! :-)

The newspapers ranted on about "THE BIG RIOT!!!" -

I WAS AT A RIOT!!!!! :-) ?????!!!!

I have been very cynical about many things in life since then.... and the louder they shout, the less I believe in their magic sky fairy given right to boss ME around....

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:41 AM

Not a word of that was made up by the way...

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Rowan
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 03:24 AM

Qld Premier Joh - a rabid right wing anti-intellectual!

That's one of the milder descriptions of him; several people who were on the receiving end of his political thuggery found the only way they and their families could stay safe from his apparatus was the move to NSW.

But there were also telling critiques noted for their subtlety.

In May 1972 the main Brisbane newspaper, the Courier Mail, became the only capital city newspaper I know of to print a letter to the editor on its front page. To get the full benefit you need to know that Bjelke Petersen, while Premier, was also a peanut farmer with a pilot's licence.

The letter took the editor to task over the punctuation contained in a story on Joh a couple of days earlier, in which Joh was described as "that well known flying peanut farmer comma Premier Joh Bjelke Petersen", when everyone knew the sentence should have read "that well known flying peanut comma farmer Premier Joh Bjelke Petersen."

Another critique was presented when the ABC broadcast a particular edition of The Gillies Report, a satirical view of current political events compiled by Max Gillies, a notable comic and aired on Monday nights. The broadcast in question did a wonderful hatchet job on Joh and, the next day, the press corps all lined up and asked Joh what he'd thought of The Gillies Report. Poor Joh thought it was a formal report to the govt and he hadn't worked through it so he blustered that he'd look into it at his earliest opportunity. The press corps couldn't believe their luck and kept pestering him; he was known for his dismissive attitude towards the press and he described press conferences as "feeding the chooks."

It took him a while to recover the necessary gravitas.

But then, at the time, I was a southerner and didn't count as far as those from "the deep north" were concerned. Now, where was that copy of "It's a long way to Cunnamulla"?

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:15 AM

First of all, "The Spitting Incident"...

No the video doesn't show the actual spit... It does show Congressman Cleaver recoiling from something and then wiping his face...

BTW, there are no known videos of the lynchings in the South either...

Secondly, both sides are out of control here...

Pure mythology!!! The right wants people to parrot this PR crap because then the moderates, most who are too bust making a living to pay alot of attention, won't punish the right for their bad behavior...

Lastly, hate....

Yeah, the right tried very hard to pin the "Hate Label" on the anti-Bush people... Pure mythology, Part B.... As many of us here said over and over: We don't/didn't hate Bush... Wh did hate his policies...

But again, this is more right wing PR... If it can get the hate label to stick to ptogressives then it fells all warm and fozzy about the level of hate they are exercising toward Obama and anyone who might be supportive of his policies...

Summation: Beware of right weing PR mythology... It is out there and it can be very subtle but mythology is just that: mythology...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:07 PM

GUEST from Sanity said, in part:

Getting back to the Tea Party, for a moment...they are accused of being homophobes, racists, morons...etc etc......if that is true, why is the left, posing as them, to do mischief, to discredit them??.

That's at least the second time in this thread that you've made (in varying terminology) the charge that "the left" is infiltrating or posing as Tea Party in order to discredit the Tea Party.

Where's the referent for that assertion? I am certainly not aware of any facts that justify that claim.

If you want Mudcatters to award your posts any credibility, GfromS, you should give us any factual basis you think there may be for that and other such outlandish charges. Unsupported quotes from Limbaugh, Beck, et al. won't rise to the dignity of "evidence".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Joe_F
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:30 PM

pdq: By an ethnic pest zone I meant a place like the ones I had just mentioned, where certain subgroups have given each other plenty of reason for mistrust for so long that membership in one or another of them has to be the most important fact in each member's life. By "much trying" I meant various attempts (often, these days, under the rubric of the pernicious pseudoconcept of "identity") to induce that state of mind in Americans.

Jim Dixon: Yes, I should have paid more attention to where the question was coming from. Of course, there are many other places that are not ethnic pest zones. We Americans used to be in the habit of belittling their accomplishments by saying that they had an easier job because they were ethnically homogeneous. That is no longer true (to the extent that it ever was), but Britain, France, Holland, and Germany seem to have kept up their decencies pretty well. There are, indeed, sons of bitches everywhere (in the '40s, George Orwell collected some pretty vile remarks about refugees in Britain), and they are good at getting into the news. We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:35 PM

""I do despair of politics in the USA, Don, and that's no lie.

I'm not suggesting you should, however. You're an American, aren't you?""

You see LH, that goes straight to what I was saying about dipping into threads without reading what has gone before.

I've been a member since Nov '03, and have mentioned my nationality some dozens of times, and you are unaware that I am English, living in England.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:58 PM

Who are the "tea baggers"?

A poll published today in the New York Times (NY Times and CBS News) shows that they are more well-educated than the general pulic, wealthier, white, married, older than 45, and vote Republican.

They describe themselves as "very conservative" and Obama as "very liberal."

A pleurality do not think Sarah Palin is qualified to be president.

They think Social Security and Medicare are worth the cost to taxpayers.

Nine in ten disapprove the job Obama is doing overaall and 92% believe Obama is moving the country toward socialism, an opinion shared by "more than half of the general public."

They are angry about the health care overhaul, government spending, and feel that their opinions are not represented in Washington.

In other words, they are a part of the tax-paying middle class, backbone of the economy, being squeezed by money wasters.

NY Times, "Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated," Kate Zerike and Megan Thee-Brenan, April 14, 2010.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 04:51 PM

The Republican Party has failed so miserably that the good people for fiscal respondsibility and the unwashed people, who are puposefully deluded into thinking that the right stands for religious goodness and the left stands for satanistic evil, wanted an alternative party. Right wing think tanks, Fox news and huge lobbying firms came to their rescue. After a 8 month boost and millions of dollars you could now say there is grass roots aspect to the tea party now.

GOD GUNS AND GUTS is one way to solve problems but it sounds more like something the Taliban might chant.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:06 PM

Q: Who are the "tea baggers"?

A poll published today in the New York Times (NY Times and CBS News) shows that they are more well-educated than the general pulic, wealthier, white, married, older than 45, and vote Republican. (etc)

The poll says "tea party backers" not "tea baggers". The backers. The people writing the checks. The backers. Not the frontline soldiers. Not the teabaggers. The backers.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:06 PM

Here's a Republican Tea-Bagger hero for ya:

---------------------------------------

Paladino shrugs off racist e-mails
Claims liberal smear behind release

By CASEY SEILER, State editor, Times-Union
Tuesday, April 13, 2010

ALBANY -- A western New York Web site posted a cache of e-mails sent or forwarded by Republican gubernatorial candidate Carl Paladino containing racist or pornographic material, ranging from a video of African tribesmen dancing under the caption "Obama inauguration rehearsal" to a video that purports to show a woman having sex with a horse.
        
The Web site, WNYmedia.net, reported that it obtained the e-mails sent by Paladino to "a veritable who's who of Buffalo-area politicians, media types, hangers-on, hacks, and appointees."

Paladino spokesman Michael Caputo said in a prepared statement that the campaign "won't be wading through the details of what is just another liberal Democrat blog smear."

The examples copied on the Web site included an altered photo showing President Barack Obama dressed in pimp garb, and a comic video of chimpanzees performing an Irish step dance that came under the subject line, "Proof the Irish discovered Africa."

At least one recipient didn't appreciate Paladino's taste in online comedy: "You really degrade yourself when you forward this (stuff)," wrote a recipient, whose name was redacted out by WNYmedia.net, in response to the video showing the dancing tribesmen.

"I apologize to you and everyone if that is offensive. To me, it's just humor," Paladino wrote back in an e-mail reproduced on the Web site.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 05:50 PM

"After a 8 month boost and millions of dollars you could now say there is grass roots aspect to the tea party now"

Others (cynics) might think that the normal process of corrupting politics by bribing the new political party by showering it with money has begun.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM

Those unhappy with the current situation may send donations to:

Republican National Committee, 310 First Street SE, Washington DC 20003

Support your state Republican Party by making a donation on its website.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 06:22 PM

The Mount Vernon, Washington Tea Party is soliciting for donations and volunteers.
Contact [e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 07:52 PM

I'm sorry, but

"After a 8 month boost and millions of dollars you could now say there is grass roots aspect to the tea party now"

Not if the money has come from the upper class (up)"Root the Grass" mob...

has just occurred to me..

although probably only Aussies will get the references and humour...

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:49 PM

I find it interesting is that with the billlions that Dick Armey (And his pharma and health isurance fat cats) and his buddy, Rupert Murdock, with his 24/7 propaganda machine that only a few thousand folks showed up in D.C. today for the "biggie" (tax day) rally... ANSWER got over a halh a million with hardy any expenditure???

Me think that if I were paying big bucks to Dick Armey's lobbiest firm that I'd be asking for a refund...

BTW, still no hate here for anyone... Not Dick Armey... Not Rupert Murdock... Not Sawz... Not no one... These folks have some policy positions which I do hate but I loves the sinner and hates the sins...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 01:15 AM

Dave O, It's being reported on the news (radio). I'm surprised that whatever news that you listen to, or watch, apparently has made no mention of it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 04:19 PM

Joe, the collapse of the so-called "centrists" was an example of the rise of fascism
in Thirties Germany.

Also, Mudcatters, it has to be stated that the "tea party" doesn't reflect the views of
the majority of Americans. It's a fringe group by comparison. It just gets a lot of
media play for their ratings.

By the way, with the advent of the British National Party, I think it's fair to
ask why British hate each other so much? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:57 PM

Yeah, strings... It ***is*** a fringe party (movement) that is getting more than it's share of press... Press = PR = $$$$... Take FOX outta the equation and it'd be "who are they???"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 03:44 AM

Fox???

Hey remember the movie, 'Network'..the is a scene where Peter Finch's character is summoned, up to the head office by the president of the company.....if you remember the rap, it is priceless, about money not being the object, but power was....
Sounds like Rupert Murdoch vs. George Soros!!!...MSNBC, NPR, ABC, CBS

Its the morons who DON'T get it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check it out

..and this!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 05:22 AM

I have been saying for many years that Murdoch is a threat to civilisation and democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:18 AM

George Soros seems to be the only boogie-man that the Repubs can come up with... I didn't realize that he owns CBS, NBC and ABC... Must have missed that "Breaking News" story...

I mean, let's get real here... When it comes to media ownership there is no one in Murdock's league... He is "da man"... He amkes George Soros look like the local paper boy ridin' his bike and throwin' papers in the direction of front porches... That's reality!!!

FOX is a manacing propaganda machine... When broadcasting was first regulated in the 30's it was set up so that people like Murdock would not be able to do what he has done... Only from persistent chipping away by the right ar FCC regs has our country given it's "piblic airwaves" over to a major braodcasting company that has only one purpose and that is to be a 24/4 propaganda arm of the Republican Party...

The operastiove word here is "public airwaves"... Meaning, that at least in theory, the people of the United States owns them... You know, kinda like national parks...

Sorry, GfS... My cumputer is way too slow for another download... It take up to an hour for a 3 minute U-Tube and if anything happens to get in the way of the stalittle it just shuts the everything down...

We're supposed to get real computer service some day back here in this mountain holler... But that someday might be decades... Ain't too many computers back here... Lotta moonshiners, tho... lol...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 09:50 AM

In the UK it is arguably worse in that Murdoch also controls the once respected Times newspaper and the nonce respected (pun intended) Sun daily rag with tits on page 3, as well as Sky with its tractor pulling for those who find NASCAR too intellectually challenging.

Both the UK and the USA are headed for the pit of corruption typified by Italy where Berlusconi's lock on the media gets him elected and then he abuses his political power to exempt himself from criminal law.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:20 PM

Bobert, With all due respects, G.E. owns NBC, MSNBC...Don't you think their 'higher ups' are running the same thing? G.E. was a MAJOR contributor to Obama's candidacy, and they have landed quite a few 'sweetheart deals'.

The amazing thing is, that people favor one over the other, thinking that there is something different going on at the top. You can take any news story, and report it through the filters of any 'news' network, with an agenda, and people will have two completely different concepts of what is going on. I see that on here, a lot. I think most people will try to do the 'right thing' given the FACTS they have, but FACTS, without spin is hard to come by these days!

That in mind, the mood of the country is dividing, depending on where they get their 'news' and to what bent that news source is pandering to; already they are shooting barbs at each other, next waging a war of words, with each other, NOBODY LISTENING to each other, just talking over each other, forming cliques and groups with like, or opposing views,...hostility rises, it won't be long before some lunatic will pick up a weapon, and throw more than words!

Instead of try to promote a 'programmed cause' we, as musicians, if we draw deep into ourselves, pull up the best, can wage peace on these troubled things. But first, we have to get past our petty differences, and our lame excuses, and reasoning...do our homework, and bring something different, decent and wholesome, that feeds the soul, to awaken that which is truly good within people.

Again, as I've posted numerous times, people should be allowed to learn HOW to think...not WHAT to think! To that end, speak and sing to their hearts, and bring them peace...the rest will grow.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:50 PM

If you compare MSNBC, ***a cable channel*** and not a channel that has use of the "public airwaves" to NBCm CBS or ABC you'll find that. yeah, MSNBC is probably the equvilant to FOX... My beef is that the FCC allows FOX to use something ("public airwaves") to broadcast Republican propaganda...

The others (CBS, NBC and ABC) are all purdy much mainstream and if they have biases they do a fairly good job of hiding them... Actaually I'me purdy disappointed with them right now because if FOX tells a lie loud and often enough they seems to fold their journalistic tents and chime in with FOX... But to say they are liberal is a joke...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 02:06 PM

Why do Americans hate one another so much?

Because there are people like Bobert constantly shouting how people hate somebody like he does and how people are telling other people to kill somebody.

Then he blames all the hared and racism he stirs up on others.

From a single thread:

"they were filled with contempt (hate) of Obama"
"I saw some very hatefull signs"
"promoting hatefilled demonstartions"
"promoting hate is against the law" [pot and liquor laws excluded]
"The KKK epitomized the kinda hate that we witnessed this past week."
"They just hate the governemnt"'
"they really just flat out hate the governemnt"
"Yeah, they hate the governemnt "
"But they sho nuff hate the governemnt"
"I hate it that 1 in 5 children go hungry at night"
"Don'tcha just *hate* it when ol' hillbilly knows what the heck he's talkin' about??? lol..." [I like it when he knows what he's talikng about]
"I reckon that Sawz will come along now and say I hate America"
"I hate it that if you do what Tom Jefferson expected us to do in questioning our governement then the right says you hate America" [example?]
"I hate it that a Tea Party gun-nut"
"There ain't enough hate in the world for this brand of right wing haters"
"so consumed with hate that many would love nothin' more than to see the United Sates become a "failed state" because of their hatred of a black president"
"Yer the governemnt hater here"
"The fact that I hate the behavior I am seeing by an ignorant minority of racists"
"Too many hatefull signs and too many hatefull screamers"
"I think it is fair game to brand their organization a hate oganization"
"the longer that the right is defined as violent people who hate the government"
"I hated his policies"

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:19 PM

""Because there are people like Bobert constantly shouting how people hate somebody like he does and how people are telling other people to kill somebody.""

Concentrating on the snippets in which Bobert talks about how he feels, and reacts, you are objecting to the following:-

"I hate it that 1 in 5 children go hungry at night"    So does any real human being.

"I reckon that Sawz will come along now and say I hate America"    A reasonable supposition, based on past experience.

"I hate it that if you do what Tom Jefferson expected us to do in questioning our governement then the right says you hate America"    Yep!...Heard that on several occasions. Bush, for one, used it frequently, as did Cheney.

"so consumed with hate that many would love nothin' more than to see the United Sates become a "failed state" because of their hatred of a black president"    Following on the Republicans' blocking tactics against any attempt by Obama to reform healthcare, this is obvious to the whole civilised Western World.

"The fact that I hate the behavior I am seeing by an ignorant minority of racists"    He hates the behaviour. So do I.   And so should you.

"Too many hatefull signs and too many hatefull screamers"   I watch TV, and I've seen 'em, so what is your objection?

"I think it is fair game to brand their organization a hate oganization"   Since they so regularly express their hatred, you can't honestly deny that.

"I hated his policies"   Once again the policies, not the man.

Not once in all that did Bobert express a hatred for any individual of any political stripe. He hates behaviours, policies, racism, incitement of hatred, and the fact that, in his country, twenty percent of children go to bed hungry.

The way I see it, that makes this old hillbilly a better human being than most, and more truthful than many.

As for those who defend the lunatic right, well, like Bobert I don't hate them. I find them contemptible (contempt is not synonymous with hate Sawz), and irrelevant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:37 PM

Thank you, Don...

And yeah, I have never said anywhere in my some 18,000 posts here that I hate anyone... It's not part of my DNA... My mom might have been a good little commie but she brought me up to love everyone because we are all God's creations... Then, if her lessons didn't take, I became a true follower of Dr. King... Hey, Dr. King wasn't ashamed to tell it like it was but he wasn't one to hold hatred for other people in his heart...

But I guess that Sawz just can't understand that concept... It's kinda like a square peg and a round hole for him as he thinks he he only spends more time picking out things I have said (all of which I will defend) that really have nothing to do with the various threads where he posts them that folks will see me as some kinda untrustworthy person whoes opinions don't count??? The problem here is two-fold... First, Sawz is wrong in thinking that... People know me from way back and they know what I stand for because at this stage in life I am what I am... I don't play games...

But secondly, Sawz thinks there are people out here in Mudburg who actually take him serious??? They don't... He is a pest... He is like the guy in high school who was always telling the teacher when other kids did this or that... No, not hurtin' anyone but like smokin' in the boys room... That's who Sawz is here and folks know it...

But thanks again, Don... Gets lonely being about the only person who pays any attention to Sawz...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 07:46 PM

... pay attention to WHO Bobert?


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 12:41 AM

You'll hate this........(maybe).....

If I speak with the eloquence of men and of angels, but have no love, I become no more than blaring brass or crashing cymbal. If I have the gift of foretelling the future and hold in my mind not only all human knowledge but the very secrets of God, and if I also have that absolute faith which can move mountains, but have no love, I amount to nothing at all. If I dispose of all that I possess, yes, even if I give my own body to be burned, but have no love, I achieve precisely nothing.

This love of which I speak is slow to lose patience - it looks for a way of being constructive. It is not possessive: it is neither anxious to impress nor does it cherish inflated ideas of its own importance.

Love has good manners and does not pursue selfish advantage. It is not touchy. It does not keep account of evil or gloat over the wickedness of other people. On the contrary, it is glad with all good men when truth prevails.

Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. It is, in fact, the one thing that still stands when all else has fallen.

All gifts except love will be superseded one day

For if there are prophecies they will be fulfilled and done with, if there are "tongues" the need for them will disappear, if there is knowledge it will be swallowed up in truth. For our knowledge is always incomplete and our prophecy is always incomplete, and when the complete comes, that is the end of the incomplete.

When I was a little child I talked and felt and thought like a little child. Now that I am a man my childish speech and feeling and thought have no further significance for me.

At present we are men looking at puzzling reflections in a mirror. The time will come when we shall see reality whole and face to face! At present all I know is a little fraction of the truth, but the time will come when I shall know it as fully as God now knows me!

In this life we have three great lasting qualities - faith, hope and love. But the greatest of them is love.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 01:00 AM

"Not once in all that did Bobert express a hatred for any individual of any political stripe. He hates behaviours, policies, racism, incitement of hatred, and the fact that, in his country, twenty percent of children go to bed hungry."

Bobert: Hope you're right, Kendall. I hate Repubs

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: DougR
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 01:56 AM

Ah, Kevin, methinks you do not understand your American cousins. We argue a lot over issues, but we don't hate one another. At least that's my experience. There is only one person on Mudcat that has posted messages about me that I thought were over the top, but I never question his right to post them. I've answered in kind from time to time when I never had something more productive to do, but as a general rule, I think Americans are not much different than their British cousins who just happen to have a different political philosophy.

Hatrid is a pretty unfriendly way of expessing ones self.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 05:01 AM

Ah well, another post made by me in a consistent guest identity and using my real name deleted.

As I said, Bobert, you need to be very careful, you are making far to many serious posts lately. Whatever happened to the old-hippy-shit-head persona?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:21 AM

Well, Richard, it's kinda hard to be the ol' hippy shit head when one person here (in particular) is compulsively obsesssed with me but yer right... I should do what several people have suggested in their kind PMs to me about this individual and do what they do: ignore this person completely...

So, let's see??? Why do American's hate one another so much??? Danged if I know but if they would legalize pot that would go a long way toward fixin' it... That better??

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: DougR
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 06:31 PM

Bobert: Wouldn't you agree that the primary reason there were no videos of lynchings is because most of them took place before television?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 06:37 PM

We argue a lot over issues, but we don't hate one another.
I'm sure that's what happens most of the time.

It's just that there seems a tone to an awful lot of stuff that's been showing up in the media, including internet media like YouTube that goes way beyond that, and it's a bit frightening. There are dangerous nuts out there who feed on that kind of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 07:02 PM

Who's stalkin' ya Bobert?
I never noticed anythang.
Give us a name and we'll sort the fucker out!

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 08:07 PM

Bobert - yes.

Doug - no.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Apr 10 - 10:29 PM

Well, Dougie... Yer right on top o' this technology stuff but I allready knew why there ain't no videos of the lynchin's... But that wasn't as much the point as folks on the right now sayin' that Congressman Cleaver couldn't possibly have been spit on because the actual spit wasn't caught on video???

Lemme see if I have this right.... If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one there to witness it does it still make a sound as it crashes to the forest floor??? Well, me thinks it does... But yer buddies on the right must think it doesn't 'er the spit would show up somewhere on someone's video??? I mean, think about it Dougie... This is some very messed up logic, ain't it??? I mean, the guy is seen recoiling from something that was hurled in his direction and is seen wiping something from his face but, ahhhhhhhh, if you believe the righties???... Ahhhhhhh, maybe fairy dust??? No, tree polin...

I mean, let's get real here, Dougie... Yer a reasonable man for a guy pushin' the century mark (lol)... What's yer take???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 01:28 AM

I keep asking Bobert to prove his "facts" and he keeps avoiding the issue by claiming I am stalking him.

He is welcome to his own opinions but I believe he should back up his "facts" or quit claiming they are facts and anybody that does not believe they are facts is wrong.

He can ask me anything he wants, any time he wants as much as he wants.

He can say anything he wants about me.

I have noticed a change in the tone Bobert's posts over the years and it is not good. I believe something is eating at him and causing stress that he blows out here.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 08:04 AM

It's important that when people who are ostensibly "on our side" start behaving in ways that are hateful and damaging, we are willing to speak out against them, rather than appear to collude with them.

I think of the way that in the election campaign John McCain had the guts to disagree in public with that lady who started shouting about Obama being an Arab (implying terrorist), and tell her "No Ma'am, he is a decent family man citizen that I happen to have disagreements with about fundamental issues". That kind of response needs to be more evident than it appears to be. When honorable people fail to step up to the line, they stoke up an atmosphere of hate, and this can be terribly dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Apr 10 - 01:24 AM

I agree. Just because someone does not agree with you, it does not mean they have to be destroyed if they cannot me made to agree with you.

It is intolerance that has people at each others throat.

Take for instance, religion. I am not a religious person but I am not an anti religious person either.

What ever people want to believe in is fine with me as long as they are not intolerant with me. It is like being a neutral country with no dog in the fight.

Standing up for the flag or bowing your head is a small price to pay for peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:22 PM

I think Garry Trudeau has it figured out.

See the Doonesbury comic strip from Sunday, April 25, 2010.

(Page down after you get to that page.)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do Americans hate one another so much?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 10 - 07:37 PM

Interesting - I googled "Gopac Memo" after seeing that -

Here's a longer extract from it:

"...These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party. ... * abuse of power
* anti- (issue): flag, family, child, jobs
* betray
* bizarre
* bosses
* bureaucracy
* cheat
* coercion
* "compassion" is not enough
* collapse(ing)
* consequences
* corrupt
* corruption
* criminal rights
* crisis
* cynicism
* decay
* deeper
* destroy
* destructive
* devour
* disgrace
* endanger
* excuses
* failure (fail)
* greed
* hypocrisy
* ideological
* impose
* incompetent
* insecure
* insensitive
* intolerant
* liberal
* lie
* limit(s)
* machine
* mandate(s)
* obsolete
* pathetic
* patronage
* permissive attitude
* pessimistic
* punish (poor ...)
* radical
* red tape
* self-serving
* selfish
* sensationalists
* shallow
* shame
* sick
* spend(ing)
* stagnation
* status quo
* steal
* taxes
* they/them
* threaten
* traitors
* unionized
* urgent (cy)
* waste
* welfare"

The odd thing is that it appears to be universally accepted in the current UK election that "going negative" on opponents is liable to be a sure vote-loser.   Evidently it doesn't work that way in the States...