Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 01:17 PM

Excellent point made, Frank, as you so often do. I really like Townes Van Zandt's voice, for example, when singing his own songs. In fact, I like his singing much better than his voice, if you follow me.
Along this line, Steve Earl has a voice that rubs lots of people the wrong way, but few sing with more conviction. The early Dylan had the same kind of voice, as does your friend Mr McGuinn, although I believe Roger's tonal quality was very distinctive. One of my favorite singer/songwriters is Jay Farrar, who fronted Uncle Tupelo and Son Volt, and his voice has a mournful nasal tone that some people find annoying. To me it has that Appalachian Mountain quality that lends authenticity to the words.
I do think Garrison's voice is very like his personality, and he can be repulsively down-home and folksy at points when you aint in the mood, but for those of us who enjoy rhubarb pie, it often hits the spot.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,chcuk enuff
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 11:46 AM

I love Garrison - the Writer's Almanac and Guy Noir especially. The cowboys too.

As to the singing, he has a church choir voice. He is brave, I'll say that. As was sung by Levon Helm once upon a time...

"Can't Take The Way He Sings, But I Love To Hear Him Talk"

I think the audience is so square they think it's ok. I recall when he had some blues revue performing - the audience was very definitely clapping on 1 and 3. All of them, nuff said.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 03:00 PM

"Garrison has a mellifluous voice" For anyone who doesn't know, not really.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 03:23 PM

I never thought I was any great shakes as a singer, but I used to get together with friends and take my turn. Then someone told me I sound like Garrison Keillor. Now I only sing at home alone.

I love his story-telling, and the radio dramas, and the fake commercials, and the show in general, and the movie about it. And he gets all the best singers to come on the show and perform. But then he sings along with them, and I just want to scream.

There's a lot of that in American music... a kind of compulsion to spoil anything that's too beautiful. Choral groups will sing beautiful songs, in thrilling, perfect harmony, but then they'll distort the melody at a certain point and make you want to puke. And in pop music there's always some neanderthal beating a drum with a stick while someone with a beautiful voice is singing. You might as well have a dog barking during the song. It's in movies, too. There'll be all these attractive, interesting characters behaving just like real human beings, and then Woody Allen appears. And audiences love it. It's as if the beauty is too much to bear and they have to have an annoying buzzer to break the tension.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 04:02 PM

Gee, Guest, it sounds like you keep finding cigar butts floating in the punchbowl of your life....

Ever hear of "the princess and the pea syndrome?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 06:00 PM

Don: Thanks for your sympathy. Yes, it's true that life in mass culture can often be frustrating for people of taste and intelligence. Sometimes I envy you.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 06:41 PM

Plenty of taste and intelligence, Guest. But I'm selective about what I listen to, and I'm willing to make allowances, depending.

Folks suffering from "the princess and the pea syndrome" let anything bother them, no matter how slight and often go looking for things to whine about. They seem to think that being hypercritical makes them "refined."

Don Firth

P. S. I do, however, draw the line when I'm singing a four hundred year old narrative ballad with a carefully worked out lute-style accompaniment on the guitar and some nitwit tries to accompany me on the bongos....

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Janie
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 09:18 PM

Folk music, at heart, is not performance music. Some people perform it beautifully and record fine albums. To the best of my knowledge, GK has never pretended to be an accomplished singer and has not put out an albums of his song offerings, representing himself to be a fine singer.

I've been listening to PHC since it first was broadcast on the public radio station where I lived - rural WV at the time, back in the mid to late 70's. Missed it when GK took his hiatus in the late 80's. Listen to it any Saturday (or Sunday when I miss the Sat. broadcast) whenever I am near a radio at the opportune time.

Terrific show. Terrific and remarkably creative person, is Garrison K. His vocal technique has improved over the years, and he is more often on pitch. I applaud him for singing and think he has earned the right by virtue of his obvious love of folk music as well as other musical genres, especially in light of the time and energy and creativity he obviously continues to pour into that show, and into our national dialogue.

If anyone understands, appreciates and supports what it means to be 'just folks' and how powerful that is, it is GK. He articulates, with remarkable insight, compassion and acceptance, the beauty, humor, contradictions, conflicts and passions of ordinary North American life.

He is an American treasure, in my opinion. He doesn't have to be a great vocalist. But he can and should sing. As should anyone who wants to do so.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 09:24 PM

Right on!

Well said, Janie!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 02:38 AM

Enjoy him while you can!

Minnpost By Joe Kimball | 03/11/15

Keillor, 71, is appearing tonight in North Charleston, and did a Q and A with the Charleston City Paper. One of the questions:

CP: Do you ever think you'll be finished with Lake Wobegon?

GK: Certainly. Any day now. It'll dawn on me that I've said all I can say and I will say, "Thank you," and walk away.

And asked if there's anywhere else, besides the Midwest, where he'd like to live, he said: "New York City," where he and his wife have an apartment. "It's our version of a lake cabin, a pied-a-terre on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, not far from Central Park, fifteen minutes from Broadway."

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 09:00 AM

So to summarize Janie's post, he's a bad singer but in folk music it's important to have bad singers singing along with the good singers so as not to be elitist.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 09:42 AM

While I guess there are some singers who can safely be called "bad singers", for the most part, who is a bad singer is very relative. I would rather listen to Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Iris Dement, Garrison Keilor or Karen Dalton than Josh Groben or Celine Dion, but I'm sure there are those who feel just the opposite. Whatever floats your boat.
It's Garrison's show and if he wants to sing on it, that's his choice. If he alienates some of his audience, it's their choice not to listen.
This reminds me of clips on Youtube from Pete Seeger's old Rainbow Quest show. People who don't understand the concept of the show make comments like, "I wish the dude with the banjo would just shut up."

GUEST,sorefingers has obviously spent a good deal of time listening to Prairie Home Companion. A bit of a masochist perhaps?

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 01:42 PM

My problem with GK - he's was once an excellent, spellbinding storyteller, and a wonderful outlet for music. When I listen now, I turn it off as soon as he starts singing, beyond the theme song. It's just awful. But that's not my real problem. It's when he foists himself onto the guest bands, to sing along on their songs. Extremely rude, and what is a guest going to say? This type of music doesn't get much radio exposure. Grin n'bare it!
And the show is a mess. It's little more than a sound-effects show, with some singing. In the early 80's, he was like a god on the radio. Today, he sounds like an asthmatic guy lost in the mall.
I was in an old time band. Wherever we were in the van, at the appointed time, the tour van would get very quiet, except for laughter.
It may be 20 years since I've really listened to the show. Seriously, I can't anymore. It sullies the memory, and it's an awful show. I have no idea what it's like today.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 03:35 PM

That's the way I feel, too. It's a shame that what would otherwise be a great cultural artifact, with the best modern folk musicians appearing as guests every week, is instead unbearable tripe just because of one bad singer who won't shut up.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 04:52 PM

When I worked in radio (DJ, newscaster, general broadcasting) back in the late Sixties, Seventies, and early Eighties, I would get the occasional call from a listener who was pissed off for some reason or other at what we were broadcasting. An old time radio veteran told me early on that when some of these people called, a good response was, "You will note that your radio has at least two buttons. One changes the station, the other turns your radio off. I suggest that if you don't like what you're hearing, you use either one or the other."

One was an "easy listening" station, and occasionally someone who call up and bitch about the "bland elevator music." Another was a classical music station and once in a while someone would call and whine about "all that 'longhair stuff'." Considering the number of poeple who listened regularly and enjoyed what we broadcast, all I can think of to tell the complainers (politely, of course) is "Tough Nabiscos, Charlie!!"

Millions of people listen to Prairie Home Companion and listen to Garrison Keillor's story telling and singing, thoroughly enjoy it, and have for many years. If you don't like Keillor or the program in general, nobody's point a gun at your head and making you listen.

("Whine, whine, whine....")

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 05:10 PM

Many of us are "of an age" where we have learned that if we don't like what we are doing/hearing, we don't do it or listen to it.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 05:28 PM

And as to Garrison Keillor being a "bad singer...."

I've heard one helluva lot worse at folk clubs, song circles--and on records!

Thomas Hampson or Leonard Warren he's not, but he doesn't really present himself as a singer. He's more of a raconteur, or story teller, writer, humorist.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 07:54 PM

Of all the things in this sorry world to get wildly upset about, Garrison Keillor's singing is surely not one of them. I am amazed to see that one or two contributors to this strange thread apparently have spent years mulling over this non-issue, never making peace with it. Jeez, get a life.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 08:04 PM

Does anyone here remember the point in time where he switched the lyrics of the opening song from:

"I smell the onions ... I look around for you..." to:

"I smell the roses ..."?

I tuned in, once, after having drifted away for a while, and the lyric change threw me, because the show had always been part of our family dinner time (and more often than not, there were onions frying in the pan.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Janie
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 08:16 PM

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 09:00 AM

So to summarize Janie's post, he's a bad singer but in folk music it's important to have bad singers singing along with the good singers so as not to be elitist.

I accept that is your interpretation, but will note, simply in the fwiw department, that interpretation and summary are not synonyms.



So. Some folks love him, some folks hate him. Some folks formerly admired him and now they don't. Some folks either don't mind or actually enjoy his singing, even while no one is asserting he is a fine vocal performer in the singing department, and some folks find they can no longer tolerate listening to PHC because his singing ruins all of it, past, present, or some combination of the two, for them.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not an idiot for enjoying and admiring him, including the fact that he chooses to sing. Those who don't share my enjoyment and admiration are also not idiots.

As several folks have already said, if you don't like it, turn the dial.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 08:24 PM

quote: ...he doesn't really present himself as a singer...

No one here has suggested that he presents himself as a singer, whatever that means. Our complaint is that he sings more than all the other people on the show combined, regardless of whether or not that constitutes presenting himself as a singer, thereby making it impossible to listen to the show and enjoy the parts of it that are good, and it's especially that he sings while very good singers are performing, thereby ruining their performance with his flaccid singing voice.

The point that you've made in many, many other posts in this thread is clearly understood: you're saying that nothing matters except what sells. If a performer finds an audience, no one can criticize that performer; they can only choose not to listen. It's not necessary for you to keep repeating that like a street-corner evangelist. We get it. You're entitled to that opinion, and I believe it's also held by many very wealthy people who control media outlets, so it's probably not a view that is seriously threatened and in need of your courageous defense.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 08:56 PM

I find it pretty funny when Keillor clowns around with singers like his fairly frequent guest, opera singer Renee Fleming. She obviously gets a real snort out of it, too, as do other singers that he sings with.

And the audience plainly gets a kick out of it.

Chacun à son gout.

You will note that he always gives other guest singers on the show plenty of chance to do their own thing without him.

...two knobs on your radio....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 09:04 PM

And Guest, NO ONE is saying that "nothing matters except what sells!"

What DOES matter is that enough people enjoy the show to keep listening to it--and Keillor--year after year. Otherwise, it wouldn't have lasted for decades.

'Nuff said on this non-subject.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 01:43 AM

'Nuff said on this non-subject.

Yes, 19 posts does seem like enough, particularly from someone who considers it a non-subject, and who doesn't really have a strong feeling on the subject but simply wants to tell other people not to express their feelings.

Not that you've said 19 different things. Your 19th post says pretty much exactly the same thing as your first post and most of the intervening ones.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 02:13 AM

Some things have to be repeated until they finally sink in. But it looks like there is still a way to go.

Instead of pissing and moaning here, Guest, why don't you write to Keillor (easy enough to do--PHC has a website) and tell him to shut up.

And see how far you get.

The show's been on the air since July of 1976, and it has a large fan base, so Keillor must be doing something right. So I guess everybody's out of step except you....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 10:37 AM

Just want to go on record in support of Garrison Keillor's singing. I think that he has a pleasant voice and I enjoy hearing him sing. I would never force anyone else to listen to his program or to his singing. I would not want him forced to stop singing or have his program pulled off the air because somewhere in this universe there is someone who does not find him entertaining. On the other hand if what he offered was more commercial, he would probably be on a major network where more stuff could be sold instead of NPR.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 12:33 PM

Arkie, maybe you're right. Maybe we shouldn't use the enormous power of this forum thread to force Garrison Keillor to stop singing or to pull his program off the air. It would be cruel to use our power in that way. Thanks for setting me straight on that point. I now disagree with whomever you think suggested that.

Many people like his singing as much as you do, even among the people who've posted to this forum thread. Others think his singing isn't very good, and even some of them think he should continue singing anyway, for various reasons.

But some of us find his singing unpleasant enough, especially when he sings along with much better singers, and frequent enough that we can't stand to listen to his show any more, even though it still has many very good features. The fact that we feel that way seems to upset some people so much that they hear us trying to have him removed from the airwaves, and they have to tell us repeatedly (20 times so far in one case) that we're not allowed to feel that way, and to insult us by calling us princesses, and whiners, and hypercritical.

Don, I can certainly understand why you might think that "Some things have to be repeated until they finally sink in." I've tried several times to make it clear that I understood your point the first time, but you keep repeating the same point without further clarification or an explanation of how my understanding is flawed.

The argument you've made that Keillor's singing must be good because he's so popular could be made much more strongly for Miley Cyrus. Does that mean I can't dislike her performances?

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 12:53 PM

I dislike all whiney voiced singers, most of whom seem to be in the current pop genre.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 01:38 PM

Guest, the solution to your traumatic situation is idiot simple:

If you don't like Garrison Keillor,
DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!!!

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 02:47 PM

Don, when I suggested that you might clarify your point rather than just repeating it with the same words you used in posts 1 through 20, I didn't mean to use larger typeface. In fact, post 21 is a turn for the worse. Now, instead of resembling the type of street-corner evangelist who stands on the same corner day after day repeating the same message in the same monotone, you seem like the wild-eyed type who runs up to people and shouts in their faces.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 03:07 PM

Guest, you seem sufficiently thick that only shouting will get through to you. I've given you the simple solution to your problem, which few other people seem to share. Whether or not I like Keillor's singing is not the issue here. YOU are the one with the problem and apparently don't know how to solve it.

Let me repeat the solution for you: If you don't like Garrison Keillor, don't listen to him.

Simple as that. Now stop wasting band width and pestering other people.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 06:16 PM

Yes, that may very well be what the wild-eyed evangelist is thinking as he shouts in people's faces, i.e. that they're so thick that only shouting will get through to them. Thanks for sharing that perspective.

I'm glad to see that you've calmed down and gone back to issuing your orders to me in a normal font. But it makes me no more inclined to obey your orders. You're still comporting yourself like a crazy person, albeit now a droning rather than a screaming crazy person -- without the bulging eyes, and possibly not drooling.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 06:50 PM

I think Garrison has a great sense of humour and his singing is above average. He sings in tune, and has a good sense of harmony even though the quality of his voice may not be fantastic.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 06:59 PM

Jayzuz, look who's talking!!!

Guest, I'm not trying to issue orders. If you want to listen to Prairie Home Companion and writhe in abject agony when Garrison Keillor raises his voice in song, go right ahead. Just shut up about it or expect to get flak.

Whether one likes or dislikes a particular singer is a matter of taste, made up of various factors. I am not stranger to singing—and a whole variety of voices, some of which I like very much, some of which I don't particularly care for, and some of which I dislike enough to avoid if at all possible.

I studied singing with three different voice teachers over a period of several years (one of whom was retired from the Metropolitan Opera), so I am no stranger to good vocal technique.   My own voice is good enough so that I've had a fairly successful career locally as a singer of folk songs and ballads, singing in coffeehouses, doing concerts, and singing a number of times on television (including my own series, "Ballads and Books," sponsored by the Seattle Public Library). People have compared my singing voice to that of Ed McCurdy, and a few people have told me I sound like Gordon Bok (I like that!!).

I grew up listening to the usual run of pop singers on the radio (Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Andy Williams), and my wife and I are subscribers (season ticket holders) to Seattle Opera, which is the fourth largest opera company in the country, featuring internationally known singers, so I've been privileged to hear some of the world's best. I was very familiar with folk singers who populated the so-called "folk revival" in the Fifties and Sixties and beyond, many of whom I have heard in person. As to recent pop and rock singers, I rarely, if ever, listen to them. I don't even know what Miley Cyrus sounds like.

Of the vast number of singers I am familiar with, I can say with confidence that Garrison Keillor sings with reasonably good vocal technique (breath support, placement) and his voice is a fairly mellifluous baritone. Although he is no Dmitri Hvorostovsky, Keillor's singing voice is better than average. Especially for someone who doesn't bill himself as a singer.

Guest, the problem is yours, not Keillor's. Once again—if you don't like him, don't listen to him. If you want to listen to him and lie there twitching in pain in front of your radio, that's your choice.

But because YOU don't like Garrison Keillor does not mean that he has a "bad voice." It's not great, but it's reasonably pleasant, and most people find it that way.

There is one well-known folk singer that a lot of people seem to like who just about makes me want to throw up. But I don't go around bad-mouthing him, I just don't listen to him.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 08:52 PM

Garrison & Chet

Judge for yourself.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 09:26 PM

Sorry, Guest, but the sound card in my computer is on the fritz. Most frustrating.

But I have heard them both and what I said still stands.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 10:05 PM

In the video that another guest linked to Keillor sounds pretty good. But he also looks pretty young. That might explain why I used to be able to listen to the show. I listened to it nearly every week, for many years. Perhaps back then he sang better, or less often, or maybe he let other people sing without him more often. I still try to listen to it, but as others have pointed out, it quickly becomes intolerable because of his ubiquitous singing, especially on top of the better singers that I'd like to hear.

Don, I'm glad to see you writing like the sane and intelligent person that I knew all along you must be. But I note that you still told me to "just shut up about it" and yet in the same paragraph said that you're "not trying to issue orders." That's worrisome, as is the fact that you've posted 24 times to a forum thread entitled "Garrison Keillor the bad singer who .." when you apparently don't even agree that he's a bad singer.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 10:22 PM

No, I don't agree that he's a bad singer. Not great, but not bad.

Pardon me for getting exasperated with you, Guest, but you have some issues yourself.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 10:26 PM

This "discussion" reminds me of the man who, when asked why he was hitting himself on the head with a hammer replied, I would, but it feels so good when I stop."

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Jun 15 - 10:34 PM

And, yes, the previous post was meant to be missing an essential element.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 12:42 PM

Don, I understand that you're exasperated. For myself, I don't mind; but your exasperation does seem a little excessive and maybe a cause for concern.

After all, it's common for people on Mudcat and other internet forums to use a dedicated thread to commiserate about what they feel is a lamentable fact of life in the world at large. All I'm trying to do is participate in one such thread and discuss the issue with other people who share my feelings.

It's less common for someone else to join that thread and tell the people involved in discussing the theme of the thread that they're not allowed to discuss it or to feel the way they do. For someone to do that 24 times, with vehemence and extra-large fonts, is something you'd normally only find on the Free Republic forum.

The theme of this thread is one that does no harm to anyone. Not being a good singer is not a sin, nor anything to be ashamed of, especially for someone who's as skilled as Keillor is at so many other things. His audience is large, and that won't be affected by anything we say here.

Moreover, you kept saying, and are still saying, that the reason for your numerous and highly repetitive posts is that I'm too dense to understand your very simple point. But I think there's evidence in all my posts that I'm not particularly dense and have given a great deal of thought to the subject. I'm sure you're not so extremely dense as you've made me out to be, because if you were you probably wouldn't be able to operate a computer. That makes it hard to understand why you would accuse me of mental incapacity, and why you would be so intolerant and so vociferous in your attempts to suppress free expression.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 01:05 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-MJ12VZaz8

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 01:15 PM

When it comes to "numerous and highly repetitive posts," Guest, before you criticize me, you might count your own. And I'm not accusing you of mental incapacity, nor am I attempting to suppress free expression.

Guest, this exchange is obviously fruitless. I'm not going to waste any more time on it. I have other, more productive matters to attend to. Goodbye.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: PHJim
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 03:18 PM

GUEST, You started out using a distinguishable name in this thread, but have now gone to posting with no name. In order to avoid confusion between you and any other GUEST, please go back to using a unique name.

It seems a little hypocritical for you to be criticising Don Firth for repeating the same arguments. I haven't heard much new information from your last 10 or 15 comments.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 06:08 PM

Don: Of course you're free to stop posting here if you wish. You've already done a great deal to keep this thread alive, which is surprising given your feeling about it. I would have thought you'd prefer to see it go away. I'm not going to urge you to keep posting, any more than I urged you not to post or not to give your opinion. I won't particularly miss our conversation. As you say, it's been largely a waste of time; but defending free speech is important to me.

PHJim: I've made 10 posts to this thread before this one, and all of them as an anonymous guest. My first post was on June 16 at 3:23pm. I didn't expect to make a second post, but when Don called me a princess I felt obliged to insult him back, and each time he ordered me not to express my opinion I felt obliged to express my opinion again. In so doing I added a great deal more information; I'm sorry you didn't see that. Perhaps you didn't read my posts carefully, but there's no reason why you should.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 15 - 07:34 PM

Anonymous Guest, I did NOT order you not to express your opinion! Don't add lying to you're inability to judge the quality of singers.

I did not intend to continue this conversation, but if you're going to start telling lies about what I've written, I'm sure going to point them out.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 02:23 AM

I am a churchgoing type, and I don't feel I've been to church unless it had a lot of participatory music to it.

If for some reason I am stuck at home and unable to make it to a service of a Sunday morning, PHC (including GK's singing) makes a pretty darn good substitute.

On another note, anyone who posts as an anonymous GUEST should be aware that this sets them up to be mistaken by everyone else (even the other anonymous GUESTs!) for any and all of the other anonymous GUESTs.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 03:11 PM

What is the advantage to joining mudcat?

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,dave
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 03:28 PM

Astonishingly, I find that this guy's radio programme is broadcast in Britain! By the BBC! Why? I had never heard of him before, but having read up on him I don't see what he has to offer a non-American audience.

Subject: RE: Garrison Keillor the bad singer who ..
From: GUEST,Shakes
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 03:32 PM

I've taken the identity "Shakes" in response to two posts about confusion due to my anonymous posting. My first post began "I'm no great shakes as a singer." I've made 11 posts since then, generally in reply to Don Firth's insults and instructions on what to do with my opinions. This is my twelfth post. The brief post made 25 minutes ago is not mine.

Haruo: You've raised an interesting point about anonymous guest posting. It's off topic, but if you don't mind I'd like to pursue it anyway. There hasn't been much progress in the original topic, probably because Don Firth's courageous role as annoying curmudgeon/bridge troll has scared off people who would otherwise like to cross the bridge and finish the OP's title sentence.

In pointing out that I could be mistaken for other anonymous guests, I assume you were giving me a heads up, like saying my fly is open. If so, thanks for the consideration. But although I wouldn't want to go around in public with my fly open, I really don't have any misgivings about being mistaken for other anonymous guests. So now I'm curious as to whether most people do have misgivings about that, and if so, why they do. And I pose this question not just to Haruo, but also to anyone else; if indeed anyone else is reading this long and tedious thread.

When I read an internet forum, I'm only interested in the ideas presented. I read each post to see if it has any ideas I'm interested in, but usually without being aware of who made the post. If I post, I think of it as just adding another idea to the discussion. I don't see why it matters whose idea it is. Can anyone explain that?

I also believe that internet forums would be more productive if everyone took the same approach. I think the need to protect the virtual ego of a user ID leads to a lot of ridiculous bickering. The same would be true with real-world identities and egos, except that in the real world I think people are more careful about what they say and don't as often get into a position of needing to defend an ego. Just as some very polite and considerate people turn into homicidal maniacs when they get behind the wheel of a car, it seems to me that many people who would not reply to an opinion expressed in a normal conversation with an ad hominem attack or insult directed against the speaker will nevertheless respond in exactly that way on an internet forum. And I suspect that many forum users react viscerally to each new user ID that appears on the forum in the same way that the males in a wolf pack or chimpanzee community react to a new lone male that appears near their circle, i.e. as another potential challenge to their authority.

Also, Haruo: Your description of listening to PHC sounds just like my experience with the show in the past, beginning in the late 70's (I also share your feelings about church services; in my church we sing the entire service, and in theory at least everyone joins in). So I'm curious as to how long you've been listening to it and how often or how many shows you've heard.