BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:06 AM

Unfortunatley, the Dems have learned a valuable lesson from former Repub campaign successes and that is "KISS", "Keep It Simple Stupid"... That is a sad commentary on the electorate but an accurate one... We have reduced way too many people who vote to people who only have time to take in bumber sticker political positions...

"Yes, we can" is no different than "When guns are outlawed, only criminals will have guns" or "Choose life, You mother did"... None of these really deal with complex issues but with a dumbed down population that is increasingly being striped of critical thinking skills it is purdy much the way it is these days...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:16 AM

ichMael

You are not the first conservative crusader to march in here like Napoleon hoping to conquer us with your logic. You won't be the first to slink away with your tail between your legs, like Bush, at Obama's inauguration.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:23 AM

""Good lord, man. Whatever has given you the idea that you- of all people and with your history - are smarter than the people here?""

Or, for that matter, smarter than the average vegetable?

Time to resurface the tinfoil cap.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Lox
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM

Spaw,

Its worth checking out more Derren Brown.

I haven't looked at the link here, but there are plenty of great examples of him doing some great tricks.

Like collecting winnings on a losing dog at the races, or telling strangers their names by reading their eye's and their reflexive reactions to very subtle stimuli - getting a whole shopping centre full of peopl to raisetheir hands simultaneously yet not knowing why ... then there's his theatre stuff ...

Have fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:24 PM

Oh, I'm not saying I'm any smarter than anyone else. Probably about average. But I have more focus when it comes to some things. And I don't like mob thuggery.

That's why this thread is so interesting, in my opinion. It began with my assertions, and they were met with name-calling and villification. The mob trying to shout down an unpopular opinion. Rather than give in to that, I decided to give the name-callers even MORE of what had upset them. That's how you deal with thugs and mobs--when they push, you push back twice as hard.

So this should be a good object lesson in that, and also in what David Manning says at one of my earlier links. He says "white people gonna riot," but it's not just whites. And that's where Democratic true believers are making a fundamental mistake. They think the whole "debate" in American politics right now is about race, but it's not.   The concern of moderates and conservatives is how the country's being destroyed financially by BOTH parties. Obama = Bush.

They tell us we have the ballot box or the bullet box, but they always fail to mention the free exchange of information. I'm simply trying to avoid bloodshed by pointing out some things.

Look at the Philadelphia Flash Mob story. You can throw together a mob in minutes now. And most of these mob members will be younger, probably Obama supporters. Mussolini would have LOVED it if he could have thrown together this type of spontaneous mob. Hitler too. And now, in America, Democrats are being told they're being shot at. Being told the Republicans are out to kill the president. All kinds of nonsense. So, sure as sunrise, the feds are going to start moulding all this into mob action. A false report of a shooting and death, a mob, ten people ACTUALLY die...

You folks need to wake up. You're being conditioned to do a job.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:37 PM

Did you notice, GfS, that David Manning's blatherings were singularly free of actual charges? No, he prefers to rail and rant and predict stuff he knows little of.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:07 PM

It has always interested me that when liberals (of which there are a few here on the Mudcat)cannot find good arguments to counter statements made by those whose opinions are different than theirs, they attack the poster.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:21 PM

Yes, they do, Doug, and it's shameful. It's one of the reasons I frequently break ranks with my natural political allies here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 02:56 PM

I dunno'.......WHen you have repeatedly tries good arguments and logic and it becomes obvious nothing you say is even willing to be discussed, you can either drop out of the non-conversation or have a good time with some jackass. I tried many years ago with Conrad for instance, but now I just enjoy the abuse and so does he!

I don't think I have ever been abusive to Doug........While I think him often wrong, I respect that he has a reasonable thought process and sometimes starts from a point far different than mine. That's life and good discussion.......plus Doug never gets abusive or "know it all" himself.

Ichy's history here is very much one of "You poor deluded fools." You start a conversation that way and/or with some "out where the buses don't run" blather, than it is unlikely anyone will come out well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:09 PM

>>>It has always interested me that when liberals (of which there are a few here on the Mudcat)cannot find good arguments to counter statements made by those whose opinions are different than theirs, they attack the poster.<<<

You're problem DougR is that there are just as many non-liberals who do that. But you just fault the liberals. What is up with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:19 PM

""And that's where Democratic true believers are making a fundamental mistake. They think the whole "debate" in American politics right now is about race, but it's not.   The concern of moderates and conservatives is how the country's being destroyed financially by BOTH parties. Obama = Bush.""

First off, it's not the Democrats that are making this a race issue, it's the gun toting redneck repubs who turn up at public meetings with Ole Betsy strapped to their waists (those that have waists), to let the "Uppity N****r" know what to expect.

You know the guys I'm talking about, the kind you call "Friend". The "Good Ole Boys" who burn crosses, and shoot holes in windows. The kind from whom cattle need the protection of a large white "COW" painted on their flanks.

As for Obama = Bush, well nobody with more than one brain cell would subscribe to that, and if you believed it, you've spent the whole thread slagging off one without a single adverse comment about the other. Your position is clear from the title of the thread, and any attempted volte face now simply screams hypocrite.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:21 PM

You're right that ichMael does add fuel to the fire with his "you poor deluded fools" approach, Spaw. No doubt about that, and it deserves mention.

I guess the main thing is when I see one person on one side doing that....and 15 or 20 on the other side behaving just as badly back to him...I tend often to sympathize to some extent with the guy that's outnumbered.

I also feel embarrassed when people on my own general side of a political issue fall into lazy, chauvinistic thinking and knee jerk ridicule of opponents. It embarasses me more when my political allies do that....perhaps because I expect better behaviour than that from them in the first place. ;-) (if you get what I mean)

See...if Sarah Palin acts like an intemperate jerk, it doesn't bother me much, I expect she might anyway, but it would bother me a lot if Dennis Kucinich did, because I expect a far better standard from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:23 PM

"...one of the reasons I frequently break ranks with my natural political allies here"--If I knew it was that easy to control LH's opinions ;-)...

I think the reactions to stupid shit like this are because it's stupid shit. Somebody comes in and says, in effect, "This person is manipulating you people because you're too stupid to realize what he's doing. It takes someone as enlightened as me to recognize the truth. Let me explain to you poor naive people."

People tend to resent that sort of approach. Personally, I think that I'm already a bit ahead of people who believe it's likely a lot of other folks can fall for that shit. They DO fall for other types of manipulative shit, and this thread is a perfect example. Of course, if you KNOW someone's trolling and you still want to play with them, it's the suckers who try to stop it who really are the manipulated. Maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 04:31 PM

I think that if you start from the beginning and read through, you will see that ich started out getting a lot more respect than he was giving.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:00 PM

Whatever.

Anyway, there are some genuinely interesting issues that people could discuss on this thread, such as the nature of hypnotism and how most people respond to it, for one.

The manipulative nature of ALL poltical campaigns, for another, and how people respond to that.

The common use of hyperbole and exaggerated rhetoric by most politicians, for another.

The common use of misleading poll results (which are usually created through carefully worded questions), for another.

Whether or not polls should determine national policy in any case, for another.

What a politician's duty really is? To lead? Or to follow? (by simply doing what the majority of people apparently want him to do at any particular moment)

How much people's partisan loyalties affect their ability to be objective in assessing any political situation...

All these are worthier subjects than discussing how much of a wingnut ichMael is or how deluded the various "liberals" here are, wouldn't you say? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:10 PM

What Jeri said... Plus, after 30 years of failed conservative policies that have done nuthing but inflict war after war on our planet, redestrivbute wealth to the upper 5% and pollute our planet I get more that a little pissed off at their arrogance that they have the better ideas... We have seen their ideas play out for 3 long miserable decades... This ain't about Dems and Repubs... It's about sane policies that are both pro-human and pro-Earth...

Period!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:11 PM

Little Hawk

Whatever..

Why don't you start a thread for that stuff if you find it interesting. Take away the politics and some other people who are interested might want to discuss it with you.

This thread is about a troll trying to convince people like me and Carol and Mick and Spaw that Obama has hypnotized us and we should wake up and agree with him. We can forgive you for being smug and condescending. We know you. We don't know anything about ichmael other than the insults he has heaped upon us.

I think that if you think you are in some way helping Ichmael's cause by siding with him you ought to reconsider. We all know that you do such things as a matter of course. And encouraging him just gets him to post more shit and then for us to tell him that he is posting shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:28 PM

Well put, JtS.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:34 PM

You want the truth!?? You can't handle the ttuth!!!

But here it is anyway! Obama was sired by a hyena and his mother was a jackal bitch. He was born in Kenya, on the veldt under an acacia tree. Deserted by his mother, he was suckled by a female wildebeest who raised him as a Muslim (although how she suckled him while wearing that burka is unclear).

As a teenager, he wandered through the Himalayas and met a holy man in a mountaintop community, the one that James Hilton used as the model for Shangri-La in his novel, Lost Horizon. The holy man taught him how to gesture hypnotically like Mandrake the Magician and bend people to his will.

This explains how he was able, with a very few words, to persuade all those republican elected officials to walk in like zombies and, without argument, vote for his health care bill, and why we now have a single-payer health care system modeled after the best health care systems in Europe.

Beware!! He may gesture hypnotically again and bring about World Peace and Universal Prosperity!

God help American Capitalism if THAT happens!!

How do I know this? There is a satellite dish on the roof of the apartment building in which I live, put there by one of the tenants to receive television signals, and although my TV isn't hooked up to the system, through this antenna, I receive signals on my fillings. The signals come from Arcturus 12, where they are monitoring our civilization, and they keep my informed of what's really going on here on earth.

I thought you'd all like to know.

Don Firth

P. S. But seriously, folks, is there no end to the really asinine lengths that right-wingers will go in their efforts to slam Obama? Not that I've noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 05:39 PM

Relax, Jack. My desire to tone down the personal insults flying between people on this forum whenever politics, global warming or religion are being discussed is no threat to anyone's existence here. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 06:00 PM

McLuhan had Obama down better than all this stuff. Obama:

1) Looks beautiful on television. His color and speaking style (which was softened up for the American people by Bill Cosby) are perfect for television.

2) TV works best at both ends of the temperature spectrum. Obama is "cool" and comes across as someone who is completely at ease with himself.

3) When he gives a really good speech, he "hypnotizes" not by any fancy rhetoric, but by the compelling logical structure of his arguments. He is the first person in a very, very long time who can actually make a substantive argument that goes on for more than one sentence. Once you are locked into it -- and if you watch the beginnings of his speeches, he is very careful to move down the runway -- he is just interesting to listen to: he moves through arguments. He infuses his arguments with emotion, and vice versa.   He almost never rises to emotional heights, but he has what one can call emotional lengths. Even if you disagree with him. Some of this is his professorial and legalistic background. Anyone who has ever watched a Perry Mason show can get a feel for how mesmerizing a speech to the jurors can be.

4) His trouble is that when he isn't giving a really good speech -- when he stops being emotionally attached to his arguments, there is a tendency in the listener to back off slightly. What is amazing is how seldom he is boring.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: mousethief
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 06:24 PM

ichMael said

"That's why this thread is so interesting, in my opinion. It began with my assertions, and they were met with name-calling and villification. The mob trying to shout down an unpopular opinion."

No, a stupid opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 07:04 PM

I once had a totally fruitless discussion with a fellow who stated something completely ridiculous. When I questioned what he was saying, he countered by saying that I was the victim of a "meme."

A meme is a collection of social attitudes, political beliefs, or behaviors that are said (by the advocates of the idea of memes) to spread through a culture like a virus and infect people's minds. This idea doesn't have all that much credence with philosophers, psychologists, sociologists, et al, but it made a lot of money for Richard Dawkins (whose latest target is religion—which I believe he considers to be nothing but a meme), who put forth the idea of memes in the first place.

The concept is very useful in argument and debate, because it allows the advocate of memes to "negate" any logical objection or refutation of his argument by saying, "you believe the way you do because of the meme you have accepted!"

Any further objection from you, or to the idea of memes, is met with a smug smile and a remark like, "See? That just shows how strongly the meme has a hold on you."

Thereby, logic is set dispensed with.

Don't buy it!

Our friend ichMael is merely using a variation on this idea.

He'll never yield to logical debate. Best to just ignore him.

Don Firth

P. S. Now, note how he answers this (if at all). One can predict it quite easily.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:06 PM

Hey, I don't mind the antagonism, folks. Since I signed up here I've been lambasted quite a bit. And that's led to what I think of as my 3 "mudcat pages."

WTC Towers did NOT fall because of fire

A Tale of Two Conspiracies

Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques

You see, the internet has taken the place of the printing press. What the Sons of Liberty and patriots did with handbills and pamphlets in the 1760's and early 1770's, we can now do with a computer, a few basic webpage design skills, and the internet.

So, as David Manning would say, "go ahead onnn with your baaad selves." I don't mind. The name-calling just stirs me to action. You may not agree with the action, but that's not really my concern.

Did any of you read about how Obama and Rahm Emanuel are destroying the Congressional Black Caucus? Don't you think that's odd? If Republicans took in after Rangel and Conyers you'd be screaming "racist." I mean, it's obvious to me that you're being manipulated, somehow, and the hypnotic possibility is very real. Too much that Obama does when he's speaking fits in with the Ericksonian methods. He's busted. Now it's on to something else.

I need to spend some time trying to get my state rep and senator to NULLIFY the Aetna insurance takeover of the federal govt (at least nullify the takeover in my state), and then I could either do a page about the Congressional Black Caucus and Obama, or I could do a page about Obama being set up for assassination. Remember when his wife wore that black dress with the red hourglass shape on the front?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/11/05/michelle_obama_4.jpg

That was the night Obama won the election, and she was dressed in a way that suggested a black widow spider. "Widow" was implanted in the minds of those watching. And all through the runup to the election Obama did the anchoring hand gestures when he was talking about JFK and Lincoln (two assassinated presidents). He would talk about them in a speech, and then later in the speech he would make the hand gestures and point them at himself, thus using a signal to transfer all the warm and fuzzy feelings he'd just stirred up about Kennedy and Lincoln to himself.

Anyway, he did as the script required, and in his mind the end result was to get elected. But not in the minds of the speechwriters. By seeing him connect himself to Kennedy and Lincoln over and over and over, we've been trained to classify him with assassinated presidents. And then there are the millions of photos connecting him with the two men. So, we're being prepped for his killing, Michelle as the widow and so on. Or so it seems. I may look into that. Or the Black Caucus thing. Not sure which. Maybe I should ask which idea you hate more...good indicator that I'm on the right track.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM

>>>Relax, Jack. My desire to tone down the personal insults flying between people on this forum whenever politics, global warming or religion are being discussed is no threat to anyone's existence here.<<

Your desire is not at issue.

Its your tendency to encourage the trolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:36 PM

Well, I wouldn't mind the trolls if I didn't have the suspision that they are on corporate payrolls and I'm wondering why our little music community is so important to these folks???

I mean, lets look at the current batch... Thay have goobs and goobs of time to put together these long winded posts with all kinds of links to all kinds of obscure websites... And they go on and on and with these links... Heck, if they had the time to find and read these websites then why don't they just do what the real muscians do here in the real musican's joint and say whatever it is that they have come up with thru "critical thinking" and make their arguments??? But no!!! It's another 10,000 word term paper with another 15 blue clickies!!! Like how many people have that kinda time on their hands??? I surely don't... I work for a living and I suspect that many others do here, as well... Then there are gigs to reherse for and play and, and, and.... But...

...turn yer back to go to work and these same people have added yet another dozen college length term papers with another dozen blue clickies????

Yeah, my fellow Mudders... Me thinks we are being invaded by professional Republican bloggers who have been assigned to our little corner of Paradise jst to, ahhhhh, fuck with folk singers!!!

I mean, how else would they have all this time and all these obscure rightie-sites all lined up with more propaganda than anyone with a real job can really get thru, let alone respond...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:04 PM

Bobert,

I think somewhere on the internet there is a big pile of this stuff that they just steal.

They are just a bunch of cut and pasters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 10 - 11:30 PM

Aw, now, Bobert, don't go digging out the tinfoil hat on us!! LOL!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: ichMael
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:11 AM

So many topics to address, but I've finally found the one.

Obama's a Fascist

This is provable in SO many different ways. Lots of cool pics of him with his corporate mafioso associates, too. This one will leave Obamanoids sitting dazed at their keyboards. Even his wife's family is involved, with union busting. So many ways to go with this, but need to keep it simple.

Lots of work, but as the Brits say, Well begun is half done. Or something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: DougR
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:19 AM

Bobert, you been dipping into the koolaid again? I can't believe that you actually believe the "corporate" types gives a hoot about opinions on the Mudcat. Why would they? We are just plain old common folks aren't we? You think the fact we like folk music sets them off or something?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 01:30 AM

Obama, by nature of his post, balances the interests of corporate AMerica with a lot of other things, Icky-whack. He so much further away from Fascism than W was that your trotting out this sort of bullpucky makes you look ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 02:55 AM

Looking at ichMael's previous posts on other threads, I'd say that he never met a conspiracy theory that he didn't love--and embrace wholeheartedly.

Or so it would appear. Actually, though, I think he's just a wind-up artist.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:21 AM

I like the "icky-whack", Amos... It's better than my "itchy"...

Now as for my tin-foil-hat suspicions??? Well, it's still alot of work just finding the right, ahhhhh, correct rightie-blog stuff that is somewhat appropriate... I mean, if the thread title is "Obama is an alien from Mars" and they put up a "3-screener" on how Obama really didn't make those two three point basketball shot during the campaign then they gonna look silly, right, I mean, correct...

(The righties lookin' "silly", Boberdz???)

Nevermind... This is going in circles...

BTW, ya'll did ya know that Obama can't be an American citizen becasue he was actaully born on Mars of Martian parentage???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 04:17 PM

...and without ever diverting his eyes away from the teleprompter, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 04:28 PM

Hey Bobert:

What is the difference between black people and white people?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:09 PM

"Bill D's contribution: "There are none so deaf as those who will not hear." I suppose that's the reason you will not tune in to Fox News Network, right?

DougR

Well, Doug...I have been out of town for 3 days, and was just casually reading this thread to catch up....but then I saw your post, so I will respond.

Downstairs, I have a large TV set with PIP (Picture-in-picture) so that I can sorta follow 2 programs at a time....then, I also have connected a VCR that I can tune to a 3rd program, and change one of the 2 programs I am monitoring. When important events are happening, I often monitor CNN, MSNBC...and Fox, because it is important to KNOW how various viewpoints are processing and interpreting the news. (Of course, I will also monitor C-Span live, and CBS at times)

It is VERY educational to follow breaking news and compare not only what is BEING said, but how well certain events are being covered at all. THIS is how I learned that Fox News is on an almost continuous cycle of mouthing denunciations of almost anything Democrats do, and why they employ 'news' people who say whatever the official conservative 'line' is today! I cannot conceive of ever being able to really comprehend world events from **FOX** versions of the data....but I **DO** tune in at odd times.

Yes...of course I prefer the viewpoint of 'other' news and analysis, (not because they are the Liberal equivalent of a Glen Beck's ranting or a Sean Hannity's distortion, or Michelle Malkin's total disregard for truth and accuracy), but because they give me information, and back up their analysis with facts....and they occasionally issue corrections when they miss something or accidentally get a fact wrong. Fox will continue to repeat the same PROVEN error for days or weeks, simply because it's really hard to explain that you flatly got it wrong ... even though it sounds SO good as a talking point!

Now Doug... I can't tell from one post whether you were just baiting me, or whether you really believe I get all my news in some filtered, one-sided bucket....but I have ALWAYS taken seriously the adage "Know Thine Enemy", and I try VERY hard to not criticize stuff I haven't read or studied.

Would you care to enlighten me as to how YOU learn, process and analyze the news about our country and world?

(and by the way...I even vote for decent Republicans occasionally....it depends on what they do and say)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:10 PM

Deep subconscious racism is one of the most important foundations of rightwingnut dogmatism.

The basic stance epitomized by "regular folks" like Joe the Plumber (remember him?) is this: Any move designed to have the government give a break to common people, as opposed to big business, is something I DON'T NEED. "Good people like me" (read: working white people) are doing just fine on our own without "handouts," and anyone who thinks they might need help with, say, a half-million dollars in medical bills for cancer treatment, is obviously lazy, shiftless, and not a "real American."

Us real Americans need nothing more from the government than the assurance that huge corporations and rich individuals are free of taxation. Why's that? Because we might get rich ourselves one day, and won't want to pay for anyone else's problems. Those other inferior humans who are looking for a break are just not as capable of achieving overnight wealth as we are.

This kind of delusional thinking is possible ONLY for those who believe that they're BETTER, in some basic, inborn way, that the masses of no-good humanity with whom they live within the boundaries of the nation.

Now, the poor fools who think along these lines will swear up and down that they are not racists, that they are completely cordial in dealing with the black folks that they encounter in everyday life, they are are not cross-burners, etc., etc. And they are correct, as far as it goes. But deep in their hearts, they have not overcome the prejudices that they learned in their youth, and their entire world-view is predicated on an unfounded sense of superiority. They are not really sold on the idea that all of us are brothers and sisters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

That is an important point that Bill D makes. As is well known in these precincts, I have strong opinions and argue them forcefully. As you might guess, that carries over into my 3D conversations as well. I am often accused of being difficult to debate because, "you are a natural born debator, it's in your genes...." which is usually said with a bit of venom by someone who debates using someone elses talking points. I find these folks, regardless of party or persuasion, to be intellectually lazy. What they don't know about me is that I learned many years ago from a debate coach to challenge myself harder than my opposition can challenge me. In order to effectively debate, one has to be able to anticipate the opposition arguments and counter them. What this often does for me is affect my opinions. One's opposition is rarely completely wrong.

So, Doug, it might surprise you to know that many of us watch Fox "News". While I will agree that other channels also have a point of view, there is no one that is there equal in trying to promote a particular point of view.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 05:45 PM

Does no-one ever become tired of providing the same factual information and making the same logical points over and over- in some cases literally for years- to Douggie-boy to absolutely no avail?

Don't you have more productive things to do- like pounding salt down rat-holes for example?

This particular horse has been [brain]dead from the get-go, but y'all keep on a-beatin'.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:18 PM

Some seem to imply that whatever Obama 'does' is sneaky or cheating...or worse.
I remember many years ago watching a cocky young guitar player trying to follow what a friend of mine was doing on the banjo....it was baffling him.
My friend said "What's wrong?"
The kid replied "That's HARD!"
So my friend picked up his own guitar and played the tune...with ease.... fingers barely moving on the frets. (Seems he had his guitar in open tuning)

The kid watched for a bit then blurted.. "You're CHEATING!"

So...my friend took the kid's guitar out of his hands and played the tune the hard way...with the fancy fingering!

After that, the kid watched and listened a lot, having realized he had a LOT to learn, and that talent was not necessarily cheating or a sneaky trick.

I wonder if those who make snide remarks about Obama 'using a teleprompter' or giving excellent speeches will ever realize that he is just an intelligent, practiced speaker who CAN speak quite well without a teleprompter, and who knows his subject matter.

(DO remember, good 'ol Ronnie Reagan began as an actor and had spent many years learning how to deliver his message. I don't remember anyone suggesting it was 'unfair'.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:44 PM

What ecxactly do you mean, Sawz??? I mean, yeah... There are differences bewteen black folks and white folks... Exactly what aspect do you wnat to discuss and why??? Please... No cut 'n posts... Just answer the question and if it looks like something worth talking about we can do that.... If it's yer usual... You know, partisan bullshit then...


...maybe not...


As fir hitting the nail on the head, p-gator has is completely correct... He is describing the "institutional racism" that many white people have... Sure, they will say stuff like "Well, I'm from the South and we don't have those problems here because ________________________________..." This all learned bullshit... Of course they have the problems of racism... But the worst part about it is that they don't see in in themselves... That is why we call it "institutional" in that their entire culture brainwashes them into thinking that they don't have a problem with racism... There in no "critical thinking" here... It's way beyond that...

That is also the problem I find with a number of people here... They are very self righteous about how "class and free" (John Lennon) they ***think*** they are buit they are products of this same culture that has them all thinking alike and reacting alike... Yeah, too many Joe the Plumbers in America for America's good... Well meaning perhaps but so brainwashed that they are incapable of looking at themselves in terms of why they have these ***feelings***...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 12:54 PM

Bobert: What cut and paste? I just want to know the differences between black people and white people in any aspect.

Why are you already talking about partisan bullshit? I didn't know that the differences had anything to do with politics.

I will answer your questions a good as I can providing they are not complex questions. Just simple straight up questions and I will do the same. Let's keep politics out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:37 PM

Why do you want to know, Sawz??? Plus, if you have really been paying asttention to my postings ove the years you would allready have a purdy good idea...

As for politics... There's a reason that black folks tend to vote overwhelmingly for Democrats... It was the Democrats who in the face of massive resistence from the right put their balls on the line and pushed thru the Civil Rights Act... Lyndon Johnson is reported to have said that in doing so that the Democfratic Party would suffer for decades... He was right... Look at the South...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 05:58 PM

"I just want to know the differences between black people and white people in any aspect."

Like the difference between Tiger Woods and Elliot Spitzer?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM

Bobert: You respond with the partisan bullshit you wrongfully accuse me of. I answered your question politely and you respond with your usual hate filled rhetoric.

If you don't mind me using the standars you set for others, already you are running from a straight up question like a pig from a gun with retoric. What are you hiding? All I can see is someone filled with hate who won't come clean.

You are trying to goad me into a political statement so you and avoid giving honest, non political answers.

What happened to all the lousy typing? Tired of that game already?

Tiger Woods and Elliot Spitzer would be a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:34 PM

Okay, smartest man in the world... What party do you think I have spent most of my life supporting, working for and voting for???

If you guessed the Democratic Party, yer wrong... As per usual...

Guess again...

BTW, Google up "1619" for a major clue on the difference between white and black folks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 10 - 08:36 PM

Sawz:

By definition, their skin pigmentation.

Any other questions we can help with?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Sawzaw
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:00 AM

Amos says skin pigmentation is the only difference. Good. I agree with that.

Are there any other differences anybody can add to this?

Come on now, this is not about politics. I promise.

Some people are actually capable of having a non political discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:12 AM

Not political? Then, Sawz, you are on a different agenda, but an agenda for a' that.

There are other differences, of course. Cultural differences, for one. But that is not due to skin color- there are people all over this country who would barely recognize the differences in each other's culture and would not understand them if they did.

There is one BIG difference between Black and White people: perception of treatment. In a society dominated by one color, anyone not of that color cannot be certain of how they will be treated in a given situation.

(It just occurred to me: In a society dominated by one gender or of one sexual preference, anyone not of that gender or that sexual preference cannot be certain of how they will be treated in a given situation.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Hypnotic Speech Techniques
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 02:07 PM

"Are there any other differences anybody can add to this?"

"White men can't jump"

...which is not really a joke. One of the evolutionary advantages of some blacks, along with extra resistance to UV light, is a slightly different muscle structure. Add to this the 'selection' process during slavery where deliberate breeding was done to produce stronger field hands,,,,

I found many examples like the following. I do NOT claim that any particular details are 100% accurate, only that there are various scientific tests which seem to verify observation that in some sports, there is a natural advantage.

"Compared to Whites, Blacks have narrower hips which gives them a more efficient stride. They have a shorter sitting height which provides a higher center of gravity and a better balance. They have wider shoulders, less body fat, and more muscle. Their muscles include more fast twitch muscles which produce power. Blacks have from 3 to 19% more of the sex hormone testosterone than Whites or East Asians. The testosterone translates into more explosive energy.

..... these physical advantages give Blacks the edge in sports like boxing, basketball, football, and sprinting. However, some of theserace differences pose a problem for Black swimmers. Heavier skeletons and smaller chest cavities limit their performance."