Catholic Priest clears his chest

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 11:31 AM

Hi there Divis you certainly do have all the hall marks of at true PIRA man. When faced with a statement about Protestant Farmers being murdered in their fields we get the traditional PIRA flat denial of any such occurence:

"Divis Sweeney - 16 Oct 05 - 05:43 PM
I honestly don't think I have ever read a greater load of cock in my life........
5. Protestant farmers were murdered in their fields. NAME ONE."

Two sources are then provided by - Wolfgang - 18 Oct 05 - 02:56 PM
"Divis, read 'Lost lives' and you'll find names of protestant farmers murdered in the fields.

In an admirable recent article in the New York Review of Books, Fintan O'Toole described the IRA's campaign of communal violence in Northern Ireland over the past quarter-century. Quite apart from well-publicised bombings in Enniskillen or the Shankhill Road, there was a systematic policy of killing only sons of Protestant farmers in western Ulster, a most effective form of ethnic cleansing. (from here. Another source for IRA killing protestant farmers in their fields is 'Lost Lives'."

Divis being a typical PIRA Man now thinks, "Oooops someone (Not a Brit) knows the truth." Someone has some knowledge, so having denied that the events referred to ever happened I will now attempt to bluster my way out of it without even attempting to explain away the downright lie told earlier:
Divis Sweeney - 18 Oct 05 - 03:23 PM
"Many border farmers were members of the RUC or UDR and in earlier cases the RIC."

"Any of those who were considered legitimate targets by the movement were shot because they were members of the British Crown Forces, nothing else."

"Most Protestant border farmers were part time members of the Crown Forces, as were their fathers before them."

So Divis are you trying to tell us that all the farmers, farm labourers, etc, murdered by the PIRA were members of the Crown Forces - careful before you answer, we already appreciate that you will lie at the drop of a hat - it's the norm for Sinn Fein/PIRA Spokesmen.

Wolfgang came up with an interesting figure in relation to the Protestant population of the RoI falling by 70% from 10% at time of Partition (1921) to 3% today. It would be interesting to know the corresponding drop in NI.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 12:37 PM

paragraphs guest, please. very difficult to read.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Den
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 04:02 PM

"Catholic Priest clears his chest". Can we stick to the subject matter in question. The IRA have retired all their weapons have been put beyond use. It seems some of you can't get past that.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 06:46 PM

Teribus, Please don't for one second that my desire not to enter into debate with you as a sign of weakness. Having read your previous posts on this site and your hate of the Irish people and your idol boasts of your treatment of suspected members of the Provisional IRA I do not recognise you or your silly posts.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

Teribus
Bill, It's clear your war with the Provisionals is still on going. Did you not come out of Ulster a happy man ? Regarding Divis Sweeney and his strong rightous stand on the role of Republicans, there are just some questions you don't ask on this site. I see you boasted that you made IRA men squeal like pigs, do you feel proud of this? I admire Sweeneys response not to engage with you, proves he has moved on and has in many of his posts welcomed the move towards peace. Sad you can't. Reading posts from both of you tonight I admire his dedication to his cause and only see a spuing of venom from you. Is this normal British Behaviour ?

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 08:27 PM

Not normal British behaviour, I think. Just the response of a few who can't find answers to the accusation that Loyalists were also engaged in acts of terrorism, a fact they seem unable to acknowledge. So it's easier for them to give vent to their continued hatred of nationalists.

Let's face it, both sides behaved in a wholly unacceptable manner.

The difference seems to be that the Nationalists have cut the ground from under the loyalists by being the first to move toward peace, and would seem entitled right now to the higher moral stance.

I don't think the loyalists can cope with that.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 05 - 08:31 PM

Perhaps I should add that Divis and I are naturally on opposite sides.

Nonetheless, I think his attitude, if typical of his side, bodes better for the future peace of Northern Ireland than many others involved in this discussion.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:34 AM

GUEST 19 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

"I see you boasted that you made IRA men squeal like pigs,"

And

Divis Sweeney - 19 Oct 05 - 06:46 PM

"..your idol (idle?) boasts of your treatment of suspected members of the Provisional IRA I do not recognise you or your silly posts."

Where? When? examples please

And is Divis Sweeney the same one as boasted earlier of popping of one or two squaddies from the roof of the Flats?

Don T,
"Not normal British behaviour, I think. Just the response of a few who can't find answers to the accusation that Loyalists were also engaged in acts of terrorism, a fact they seem unable to acknowledge. So it's easier for them to give vent to their continued hatred of nationalists."

Can't find answers to the accusation that Loyalists were also engaged in acts of terrorism, for the entire period of my first stint in Northern Ireland (1969) it was the Loyalists who were attacking us.

And counter to what most seem to think I have and bear no hatered of the Irish, Irish Republicans, Irish Nationalists, Irish Unionists, I even have quite a measure of respect for the Official IRA. My objections are reserved for a self-appointed group of murdering thugs, who, as was clearly seen in the referendum held throughout Ireland in 1998, had absolutely no mandate from the Irish people to act on their behalf. Who opportunistically jumped into an improving situation and succeeded in making it worse in order to further their own interests politically and financially. Who needlessly and indiscriminately killed and wounded thousands and then boast about it. Who terrorised the extorted from the very communities they were supposedly protecting. Believe me I have nothing but complete and utter contempt for ALL the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland, and that I have often stated.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 02:39 AM

But will the likes of Divis be allowed to move on ? Seems here they have to answer for all their past sins, and accept a telling off. I note Loyalists retain their arms. The facts regarding British collusion with Loyalists is never addressed here by the pro British element I notice. So sad to see the very strong anti Irish feelings being expressed.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,Fiolaris
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:27 PM

Teribus,
I also remember you making that remark, must search through posts. You remarked that when you were dealing with IRA you made them squeal.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:31 PM

perhaps because Mr Guest, the loyalists have murdered our troops as well as anybody else who takes their fancy.

The axis of evil.........another war you must be thinking of

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 03:31 PM

Good example of ex British soldier above. So it's true what is said about them !

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 08:48 PM

I tried to contribute to this site earlier but could not get on.Is it fair to just attack eachother with recall of past events ? Do you really want to polarise both communities? Enough said, I'll say a prayer for you and your lost army members. though to be honest I'm not sure that you would even want that. Still, from the descriptionns published of your viewpoints etc, I think your soldiers would be decent enough to accept my prayers, even if it does come from a donegal taig. let the bigotry go, it will only eat you like a cancer. I have a friend from Fermanagh who lost two young cousins, shot dead in their house by the UVF, One of the UVF members later admitted the police had helped them with information on the area. Do you think he isn't consumed by the same hatred for the security forces as you are for republicans? I'm not saying you should forgive or ever forget but for the sake of us all you should try and move on. needless to say some wont.The IRA has said sorry, handed in their guns, stopped their bombings in England and Ireland. Yes some could be involved in crime, but tell me of a city in England which doesn't have organised crime? It would be a blessing to see Teribus and Divis Sweeney hold a civil conversation with eachother and show example to all here how two past enemies can unite and put their pasts behind them. Please set this example, I know all would welcome it.
DT

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 08:57 PM

Please note:

Neither

GUEST 19 Oct 05 - 07:49 PM

Or

Divis Sweeney - 19 Oct 05 - 06:46 PM

Have responded to the request specifically asked of them.

As to:

GUEST,Fiolaris - 20 Oct 05 - 03:27 PM

I can say this with complete and utter certainty:
1. I have never interrogated anybody in my life.

2. I have first hand knowledge of the interrogation techniques employed by British Forces through exposure to those techniques in training

Guest; Guest, Fiolaris and Divis Sweeney - I am still waiting for an aswer to the question posed.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 05 - 09:25 PM

GUEST 20 Oct 05 - 02:39 AM

Questions asked:
"But will the likes of Divis be allowed to move on ?"
Divis Sweeney does not want to move on. Divis Sweeney takes every opportunity he can to provoke and gloat - I merely respond and when confronted with fact said Divis Sweeney gets upset.

"Seems here they have to answer for all their past sins" - Damn right they do. Because of their actions, directly, thousands of lives were scarred and irreparable damage was done. They haven't yet come anywhere close to accepting responsibility for that.

"I note Loyalists retain their arms." - That situation appears to be changing.

"The facts regarding British collusion with Loyalists is never addressed here by the pro British element I notice." - Good heavens Guest why be so coy, in the past on this forum not only have I referred to collusion between British Security Forces and Loyalists but also British Forces collusion between Official IRA, PIRA and INLA. It's a very messy business when you have so many players and you are trying to keep as many civilians alive as possible - Personnally I could give a damn about colluding with whoever as long as the end result is one set of bigotted thugs wipes out their direct counterparts - what that amounted to was less of the bigotted thugs of whatever persuasion being available on the streets to kill innocent civilians. By the way if you doubt that take a look at the Sutton Statistics provided by Wolfgang - numbers of women killed.

"So sad to see the very strong anti Irish feelings being expressed." - Well actually Guest if you read through this thread you see very little anti-Irish sentiment being expressed. What you would see is a condemnation of the self appointed thugs and criminals who have terrorised the people of Northern Ireland for years and who by and large continue to do so, regardless of the wishes and will of the greater majority of the people of the island of Ireland.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 04:36 AM

Dear Dear, this poor guy appears to be talking to himself. Teribus no one cares. Go and haunt a house or something.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 05:27 AM

Why?
Is it just easier to pretend he is not there than answer his points?
You have no excuse.
The allegation against him was made up.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:40 AM

Terribus has silenced the Mudcat Irish Republican lobby!
Some achievement!

Interesting in the light of our recent discussion where almost everyone said that all should be welcome on this forum.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:16 AM

Silenced the IRA ? Your army failed to do it. They are now playing the right line here, starve you two of the Oxygen you crave. The support for Sinn Fein must really get to you, does it?.Ah well talk away gentlemen, just watch your government keep on handing out the sweeteners ! No victory medal for your men who served in Northern Ireland ? Are you aware the British government handed out 2.4 million to ex republican prisoners groups last year ? they didn't even ask for it. Whats the name of that British army trauma support group ? They got 1 million. Says it all ! I see by the amount of posts above it's clear this gentleman did make the remark.Keep up the silent boys.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,wld
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:25 AM

I'm getting confused, is there more than one guest. One minute you're all tearful about the dead folk, next minute you're going all IRA rampant - wasn't it great our lads gave the brits a pasting etc. Perhaps you could have a number.

guest 1, guest 2, and so on

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:29 AM

if he did where is it?
You boys are seeing things.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:32 AM

If he said you say he said, where is it?
You boys are seeing things.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Den
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 08:41 AM

Really Keith, is that really what it is all about. Silencing the Republicans. If it makes you feel better. You won. Happy now? Maybe you can contact Joe Offer and collect a little Mudcat gold star. This is so pathetic. You and your pal above have succesfully hijacked another thread to further your own agenda. You're like broken records and to be honest debating with you on the subject of N. Ireland is pointless. With statements like, "those dirt poor hard working small farmers would often parade with the reserve to supplement their meagre income." You dash completely any modicom of credibility you may have on discussions concerning N. Ireland. If that statement were not so embarrasing for you it would be quite funny. I doubt that the underlying reasons for Fr. Reid's outburst will ever be debated on with any objectivity on this site.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:13 AM

You have got me completely wrong Den
I was not celebrating your silence, but trying to encourage you to tear into Terribus in debate.
Rip his statements apart like you do mine!

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Den
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 09:54 AM

I am not a Republican.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:36 AM

A question I asked earlier:

"Wolfgang came up with an interesting figure in relation to the Protestant population of the RoI falling by 70% from 10% at time of Partition (1921) to 3% today. It would be interesting to know the corresponding drop in NI."

Couldn't get back to 1921 for figures, but I did get this:

Demographic Results from 1961 Census of Northern Ireland
Recorded Population - 1,425,462
Catholic - 34.9%
Protestant - 53.2%
Others - 11.9%

Demographic Results from 2001 Census of Northern Ireland
Recorded Population - 1,685,267
Catholic - 40.3%
Protestant - 36.0%
Others - 23.7%

Now hang on a minute, this is the place where according to the good Fr Alex Reid, the Catholics have been treated like animals, in fact no better than the Nazi's treated the Jews. Amazing!! I know that the Nazi's were in power for only 12 years and the period above covers 40, but did the Jewish population of Germany increase under Nazi rule? I know temporarily the Jewish population of Poland did, but that was very temporary and referred to as the holocaust. Meanwhile, down in the RoI where everything is supposed to be all sweetness and light the Protestant population has fallen dramatically - so all the chatter about ethnic cleansing on these figures applies to which part of Ireland again? I have not yet heard of any credible programme of ethnic cleansing where the population of those being ethnically cleansed A) Stayed put, and, B) Actually increased.

Another interesting set of figures from the Northern Ireland Life and Time Survey of 2003:

Religion/Political Affiliation
Protestant/Unionist - 68%
Protestant/Nationalist - 1%
Protestant/None - 29%

Catholic/Unionist - 0%
Catholic/Nationalist - 60%
Catholic/None - 36%

Totals
Unionist - 38%
Nationalist - 24%
Neither - 35%

Northern Ireland Life and Time Survey of 2004 found the following:
Desire to remain within the UK - 59%
Desire to unite with RoI - 22%
Form and independent State - 11%
Other - 8%

Another interesting set of data relating to population figures for Northern Ireland:
1891 - 1,236,056 - baseline
1961 - 1,425,462 - population increase 189,406 or 15.32% (70 years)
1981 - 1,738,000 - population increase 312,538 or 21.93% (20 years)
1992 - 1,610,300 - population decrease 127,700 or 7.35% (11 years)
2001 - 1,685,267 - population increase 74,967 or 4.66% (9 years)

Now lets see when were Divis and all the other self-appointed guardians/liberators/defenders active 1969 to 1994. Looks like people stuck it out for the first part then departed in droves once the said self-appointed guardians/liberators/defenders had suceeded in making a complete and utter hell-hole of the place. Now that they have stopped the population is on it's way back up. The period Fr. Alex Reid was talking about was in the era 1961 to 1981 - Correct?

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 10:55 AM

Re content of GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 08:16 AM post

It is exactly that sort of thing I referred to when I said:

"My objections are reserved for a self-appointed group of murdering thugs, who, as was clearly seen in the referendum held throughout Ireland in 1998, had absolutely no mandate from the Irish people to act on their behalf. Who opportunistically jumped into an improving situation and succeeded in making it worse in order to further their own interests politically and financially. Who needlessly and indiscriminately killed and wounded thousands and then boast about it."

Aye laddie, by all means remain silent, crawl back under your rock and remain there. But do not think for one minute that you can spout your line of tripe here unchallenged.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM

And I used to wonder why people shot soldiers ? Maybe to keep their mouths shut. This coming from a guy who said he made Irishmen Squeal like pigs. Such a nice person. Just go away you old creep.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 01:52 PM

What is going on in Northern Ireland?, I see that the government has restored Sinn Fien`s assembly money, no doubt back-payed. We keep hearing how the IRA surrendered, well if that is the case they are now the leading Irish party in N Ireland taking over from John Hume`s Party.

On this Site were I come for information on the north some of the members seem to know nothing of what is happening in NI, but that dosen`t seem to deter them from giving an opinion, surely living in NI would qualify for a person giving valid points.

I served in NI during the mid 70s and my time there dosen`t make me an expert on the place, I will say that our government whether under Labour or Tory have made some very wrong decisions down the years, Internment being a terrible mistake only interning members of the Catholic population, at last it seems that the Catholic side are willing to compromise, unfortunately this will never bear much frut while the Rev Paisley is the leading Protestant politician.

In conclusion I met some very friendly people on both sides of the divide and nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see a permanent peace in NI.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Den
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 02:26 PM

Teribus I have never met anyone on this site so infected with loathing as you. What exactly are you trying to prove with all these stats? Are you really insinuating that nationalists in the north of Ireland have no cause for grievance then I'm sure that you share Mr Paisleys analogy in regard to your stats that, "catholics breed like rabbits and multiply like vermin." Noone called Mr. Paisley to task over this and other insiteful remarks that he made. Fr. Reids words did not send his supporters into a frenzy of house burning. But then again that is not your concern is it? Your job in N. Ireland was to retain the status quo. Protect the union and a protestant state for a protestant people.

Do you know FR. Reid personally? Do you really know anything of his background. It seems to me that you have quite a bit of free time on your hands. You might want to use that for a little more meaningful research.

I think Fr. Reid's choice of words was unfortunate. I think a better parallel would have been the system of apartheid. I have heard from people who were at the meeting who said that he was heckled all the way through his speach by those hurling sectarian abuse at him. Noone seemed to mind that.

Finally Teribus maybe you would like to tell us exactly what it was you were doing during your visit to Ulster and how you failed to understand the climate of oppression that your Government and military helped to maintain.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,Fiolaris
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM

Den, just let him keep going, he's doing more for the Nationalist cause here then all the Nationalists/Republicans could ever hope to do. Him and his croonie can only attack the Nationalist community. Their support for loyalism is clear. Has all the hallmarks of a failed warrior, which in reality he was. And the slaps on the back from Keith I notice are getting fewer. As a Nationalist and not a Republican I have to admire the unity they have shown here by ignoring this fool.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 05:43 PM

In 1935 the Nazis demonstrated their repudiation of civilisation by the Burning of the Books. Though this involved no loss of life, more than any other act it defined what Hitler was about, it was a chilling message to those who cared to listen. In 1993 the UVF fire-bombed the Linen Hall Library. More than any other act of terror this defined what the UVF are all about. The burning of books is the ultimate denial of any pretence to civilised values. Like Goering, when they hear the word "culture," Loyalisim reaches for its revolver. How much evidence do we need? they don't even pretend to be other than Nazis. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Hitler was intent of the ethnic cleansing of the Jews? How many ethnic Nationalists have been cleansed by Loyalists from the north eastern areas of Ulster, and how many ethnic nationalists can watch Loyalist representatives on television and look into their eyes without a shiver of fear as to their Ultimate Solution? Goebbels was the father of propaganda and invented the notion of the Big Lie. How he would have admired UVF audacities as it denies involvement in criminality in general and specifically the drug dealing. I believe that the DUP currently win about one third of the votes cast in Northern Ireland elections. With a similar vote, Hitler had a mandate to murder six million Jews and who knows how many other innocents. None of us on this island is without sin and we should be loath to cast stones. But anyone who seriously believes the UVF is not involved in criminality, as does Dr Pasiley is either wilfully stupid, criminally naive, or it seems most likely, party to the Big Lie. Whatever the reason, he can have no pretence to credibility as a leader. For most of my adult life, I have voted Unionist. In despair I watch as DUP gain support. I despair of a community, that gives them succour. When I contemplate the level of support for Loyalists I am disinclined ever to vote again. If it talks like a Nazi, lies like a Nazi, pillages and burns like a Nazi, and kills like a Nazi ? it's a Nazi. The cap fits and the DUP wears the cap. Tom Gilbert, Straid, Co Antrim.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 05:49 PM

I hope you two read this. Well said Tom.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 06:17 PM

Have to agree with GUEST 01.52pm. My brother in law did three tours in Ulster and found the nationalists friendly and republicans were never abusive towards him. His patrol was shot at by Loyalists ! We often ask what are they loyal to ? The Crown or the half crown ! We went over last year with him and his wife. Went into two shops which were owned by Catholics which he used to get his fags in. One owner remembered him. Great people and maybe this guy in the above posts needs to go back, then again, those he supports are still at war.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Hillheader
Date: 21 Oct 05 - 07:15 PM

If you think you know the answer you do not understand the question.

Read "Rebels" by Peter de Rosa. Not a part of the UK history curriculum.....but should be.


Cheers
Davebhoy

Ex LOL, Non Catholic, Nationalist/republican

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 12:19 AM

So come on GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 01:37 PM

Just when and where did I say that I, "...made Irishmen Squeal like pigs." I have asked those who laid that charge at my door quite pointedly to support their claim - they have remained completely silent. I now challenge YOU PERSONALLY to come with PROOF of such acts or else deliver a public apology to me on this forum.

I certainly hope you understand this message you nameless, annonymous, child molesting TWAT.

GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 06:17 PM no doubt you do agree with GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 01:52 PM for all we know you are probably one and the same person, thereby making your comments and observations irrelevant.

Now lets get on to Den 21 Oct 05 - 02:26 PM who of course is not a Republican - remember he went to great pains to tell us so.

OK Den, the non-republican, instead of attacking me personally, please explain how you can support the contention of Fr.Alex Reid when within the time frame he was talking about the Catholic population of Northern Ireland increased by a greater margin in twenty years than in the previous seventy years - masochism maybe??? And listen you tosser I want actual counter arguement, not populist myth that you seem totally at ease propounding.

Now on to GUEST 21 Oct 05 - 05:49 PM

"I hope you two read this. Well said Tom." I take it the two he meant were myself and Keith. So what was so well said by Tom that unamed Guest had to go into print over:

GUEST,Tom 21 Oct 05 - 05:43 PM

"In 1935 the Nazis demonstrated their repudiation of civilisation by the Burning of the Books. Though this involved no loss of life, more than any other act it defined what Hitler was about, it was a chilling message to those who cared to listen. In 1993 the UVF fire-bombed the Linen Hall Library. More than any other act of terror this defined what the UVF are all about."

OK Tom Gilbert, of Straid, Co. Antrim given the above as read just exactly what is your take on an organisation that set 24 bombs to go off with 2 hours in centre of Belfast in the middle of the day. As you say above the burning of the library involved no loss of life - what were the bombs supposed to do? Oddly enough the bombs were timed and planted by an organisation that declared that it did not target innocent civilians - who did they expect to be walking round the centre of Belfast at that time of day? Somehow, on this subject, I do not think this forum will get a reply from Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim.

I will however attempt to answer some of the questions he has raised:

"How many ethnic Nationalists have been cleansed by Loyalists from the north eastern areas of Ulster" - As the Catholic population of Northern Ireland has increased over the years in accordance with the figures given in official census I would say minimal - now Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim give us figures to back up your claim - if you cannot then shut the fuck up.

"How he would have admired UVF audacities as it denies involvement in criminality in general and specifically the drug dealing." And of course Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim the PIRA, CIRA and RIRA have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with crimial activity and drug dealing - Are you actually asking us to believe that - again, give us hard fact or shut the fuck up.

"I believe that the DUP currently win about one third of the votes cast in Northern Ireland elections. With a similar vote, Hitler had a mandate to murder six million Jews and who knows how many other innocents." Just what are you saying here Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim? Wolfgang has given us the statistics for deaths in Northern Ireland - The DUP did not murder the bulk of innocents killed during 'The Troubles', the PIRA did.

"...anyone who seriously believes the UVF is not involved in criminality, as does Dr Pasiley is either wilfully stupid, criminally naive, or it seems most likely, party to the Big Lie." Tom Gilbert of Straid Co, Antrim please declare here on this forum that the PIRA, RIRA and CIRA are not involved in criminality - the police forces of Northern Ireland and the Republic are of a singularly different opinion, and have the evidence to back it up. So, come on Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim please put your proof forward so that the matter can be cleared up.

I do not believe we will hear from Tom Gilbert of Straid Co. Antrim, but we will hear from some annonymous Guest.

GUEST,Fiolaris, you were asked to substantiate an accusation you made with regard to myself - I note that in your post of 21 Oct 05 - 05:05 PM you declined to do so. Just as a matter of factual record can you explain why?

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 01:03 AM

Hey Divis Sweeney - has this got anything to do with you or your colleagues, maybe this was one of the squadies you popped from the roof of the Flats:

An Account: PROVO "Disappeared" victim Jean McConville

The 31-year torment of the family came to a head a month ago when widow and mother-of-ten Jean's remains were found at Shelling Hill Beach, Carlingford, Co Louth. The family gathered at the Co Louth site and when Helen Jean McConville's daughter) discovered a bullet in the back of the head had killed Jean she suffered acute distress She had difficulty breathing and fell severe chest pains. Jean's remains were taken to England for forensic tests and to compare DNA samples taken from Helen to prove the identity of the skeleton.

Helen was later told by a policeman of her mum's tortured final hours. IRA torturers had chopped off Jean's fingers to make her admit she was an informer. Then Jean, kneeling before a cowardly thug, was killed with a bullet in the back of the head.

Helen's husband Sean, a founder of the Families Of The Disappeared pressure group, said: "We have been told the digits on one hand were missing. We will have to wait until the inquest to tell for sure how mutilated her body was".

Provos shamed for the senseless and cowardly murder have owned up to murdering nine of The Disappeared. Four of those have been found, but it is believed there are at least six others the IRA dealt with.
The nine were kidnapped, tortured and maimed, and buried in shallow graves in out-of-the-way places.

The Disappeared from the Seventies and Eighties came back to haunt Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams during the height of the peace process in the mid-Nineties. He met Helen and Sean McKendry and denied all knowledge of The Disappeared. Only after US president Bill Clinton intervened did the IRA admit its Belfast Brigade was responsible for Jean McConville's disappearance. The Provos had always lied that she was an informer who had run off with a British soldier and was in England.

Helen's real 'crime', her family believe, was to tend a dying soldier hit by an IRA sniper's bullet outside her home in the Divis Flats complex in the Lower Fails. A neighbour said she put a pillow under his head (the soldier's) and whispered a prayer in his ear. That act of Christian charity was as good as a death sentence.

On December 6, 1972, a gang of thugs sent a false message into a social club where she was playing bingo that Helen had been knocked down by a car. Jean, who was barely 5ft, was lured outside, pounced on by IRA hoodlums and interrogated, abused and battered. Police later found her wandering barefoot on a bitterly cold night.

The following night she suffered another dose of mob rule. A gang of 12 masked Provos - eight men and four women - burst into her home and dragged her from the bathroom. She was bundled screaming into a car as some of her children watched. It was the last picture of their mum they have in their minds. The terrified mother, still in pain from the previous night's savagery, was tortured and finally forced to kneel. She was murdered with a single shot.

In January, 1973, a man delivered Jean's purse to her home with three of her four rings. Police said it was the Provo message that she would not be seen again. Members of the McConville family know the identities of several of the gang of 12 that dragged their mother away. They pulled off their balaclavas as the children watched the terrible scene. Helen said: "I know at least three of those in the gang who abducted my mother. One lived nearby. "I came face to face with one of the women in Belfast city centre one day but she never told me what she knew '

A funeral mass is booked for October 16 at St Mary's Church in Chapel Lane Belfast, where Jean was a regular worshipper with her brood.
St Mary's Church is also the place where the first memorial service was held following the creation of Families Of The Disappeared in 1996. A go-between told the family the IRA felt it wouldn't be in their interest to hold a large funeral. Jean's children accused the terror chiefs of being embarrassed by the murder and plan a huge funeral to which the world's media will be invited. Seamus McKendry, author of a book on The Disappeared, said: "We want the world to know what the IRA did."

Oh yes you guys will go down in the history books as heroes - fact is you're a couple of rungs below child molesters in the criminal heirarchy.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 04:37 AM

Well it appears this ex British soldier who claims he made Irishmen squeal like pigs when he served in Ulster, as confirmed by above posts, is against the ropes. He is now referring to other posters in the hope they to come to his rescue and they don't appear to want to know him. Even the Republicans aren't answering him.Teribus we have all seen you get wiped on Mudcat, but never as bad as this. Take advice Bill and leave it.From an outside on this subject such as myself, it's time to walk away and accept defeat.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:25 AM

No answers?

No substantiation of claims made?

Thought not.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST,The Wandering Minstrel
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:59 AM

It has been quite a time from I ventured back to the Mudcat, glancing through the threads for the past few hours I always find them interesting and not without the spats and spits.

Teribus dosen`t seem to have realised that the war in Ulster is over,his various posts leave no doubt as to who he supports, also why does he continually foul-mouth his opponents, he comes across as a nasty indivdual, so dear Teribus please continue with the medication and take your GP`S good advice.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:29 AM

I would substantiate the above. I think it's reasonable to assume there is some form of an underlying psychosis present.The fact he goes into denial over the remarks he made about the Irish, his uncontrolled fits of anger and his fixation with one subject leads me to this conclusion. I suggest Teribus you contact a group in London called AT EASE. They are a confidential counselling service for members and ex members of the Armed Forces. Their address is 1 Elgin Avenue London W9.Good luck with it.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Epona
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 10:24 AM

Here I am again, just returned home and I see the thread has become quite nasty! And I think this is a fight I would like to stay out of. If I may make one request, though...

Teribus stated:

I will however attempt to answer some of the questions he has raised:

"How many ethnic Nationalists have been cleansed by Loyalists from the north eastern areas of Ulster" - As the Catholic population of Northern Ireland has increased over the years in accordance with the figures given in official census I would say minimal.

Once more, I would like to ask all mudcatters, whether members or guests, to not use the terms Nationalist and Catholic as interchangeable, or loyalists and protestant as interchangeable as well. I realize the majorities of those within those groups that profess to believe in certain doctrines of faith, but they don't comprise the whole of the group. This seems to be my sticking point, doesn't it catters? :) But I obviously feel strongly about it since I point it out anytime someone uses the terms interchangeably.

Hope everyone is doing well! Enjoy the rest of the day....:)

E

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 06:50 PM

No answers?

No substantiation of claims made?

Thought not.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:37 PM

No answers ? I think there was a lot of answers to you.
No substantiation ? I think my the amount of posts about your remark it is without any doubt that you did say it. Shame on you.
As a Canadian with Irish roots you make me sick. Making people squeal does not make you any type of hero in anyones eyes. I would contact that help group someone adivsed.And what did you mean about that builders yard in Balham in your earlier post ? Speak clearly or keep quiet.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: How far should a insult go ?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 07:39 PM

I just had your boasting pm forwarded to me. God you are so sick Teribus.

Have you really? Then you will have no problem in simply providing a reference where we can all view it.

GUEST 22 Oct 05 - 07:37 PM

"No substantiation ? I think my the amount of posts about your remark it is without any doubt that you did say it. Shame on you."

Just for arguements sake I will assume that you are a different person, from GUEST. Just because a lie is repeated over and over again will never make it the truth.

"And what did you mean about that builders yard in Balham in your earlier post ? Speak clearly or keep quiet."

If this is an example of the accuracy of your research into my input, it clearly illustrates that you haven't got the foggiest notion of what you are talking about. I have never made reference to any builders yard in Balham, not surprising as I have no idea where Balham is, let alone know if it has any sort of builders yard.

Take your own advice GUEST - Speak clearly or keep quiet.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:11 AM

I really would take the advice of this post.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 05 - 09:29 AM

I would substantiate the above. I think it's reasonable to assume there is some form of an underlying psychosis present.The fact he goes into denial over the remarks he made about the Irish, his uncontrolled fits of anger and his fixation with one subject leads me to this conclusion. I suggest Teribus you contact a group in London called AT EASE. They are a confidential counselling service for members and ex members of the Armed Forces. Their address is 1 Elgin Avenue London W9.Good luck with it.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 04:55 AM

AT EASE



Contact:


-



Address:








28 Commercial Street

Aldgate East

LONDON

E1 6LS



Telephone:


020 7247 5164 (Sundays 5pm-7pm only)



e-mail:


[e-mail]



AT EASE is a free advice service for members of the Armed Forces, including Reservists, and their families.



AT EASE is completely confidential. Callers do not have to give us their names.



AT EASE is completely independent and has no connection with the MOD.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 07:51 AM

GUEST - 39 posts ago you were asked to provide a reference to substantiate your claim. You say that it has been PM'd to you, yet find difficulty in sharing that information with the rest of us. Could the reason for that be that it doesn't exist and that you are a nameless, gutless, pathological liar.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Den
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 10:08 AM

Teribus, I seem to have touched a nerve with and you lashed out. I don't wish to add to your misery but its not very nice to call people names. However that's just my opinion.

You are fond of calling the PIRA, the official IRA and sundry catholics, thugs. Some could argue that you yourself have dislayed thuggish behaviour on this website, calling names using abusive language to/at others. Some people with experience of such things would say that that type of behaviour is exemplified by the British army. So help me out here Teribus who are the good thugs and who are the bad ones?

The war is over Teribus. We for the most part have moved on. I think it might be time to call time.

Subject: RE: Catholic Priest clears his chest
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Oct 05 - 10:34 AM

"You are fond of calling the PIRA, the official IRA and sundry catholics, thugs."

The above quote from Den, does not quite balance up with what I actually did say

"...counter to what most seem to think I have and bear no hatred of the Irish, Irish Republicans, Irish Nationalists, Irish Unionists, I even have quite a measure of respect for the Official IRA. My objections are reserved for a self-appointed group of murdering thugs, who, as was clearly seen in the referendum held throughout Ireland in 1998, had absolutely no mandate from the Irish people to act on their behalf. Who opportunistically jumped into an improving situation and succeeded in making it worse in order to further their own interests politically and financially. Who needlessly and indiscriminately killed and wounded thousands and then boast about it. Who terrorised then extorted from the very communities they were supposedly protecting. Believe me I have nothing but complete and utter contempt for ALL the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland, and that I have often stated."

GUEST, GUEST Foilaris, Divis Sweeney - Still no reference offered - Wonder why?