BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 03:03 AM

It's good to have friends of all sorts. :)

Gnu- "to what surfaces will you be applying this clay?" If we use it, it would be on wallboard, gnu. In addition, it would be months from now.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 03:45 AM

Well, I know it leaves out a whole gender, but it's such a cool word and I *think* I spelled it correctly, didn't I?:-) So, what's the female equivalent???

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 03:50 AM

Regarding 'avuncular', avauntular', and such...

http://www.funtrivia.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/270735

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 05:49 AM

You spell just fine, Kat. And it is a neat word. I was poking fun at myself for going blank on what it meant.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: My guru always said
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 06:17 AM

Hope you're catching your breath now Maeve!!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 08:31 AM

Temperature this morning is -2F/-19C.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 08:43 AM

I hope you're wrapped in lotsa' warm stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 08:50 AM

Yes thanks, Sandra. We wear coats/hats/layers/warm socks/gloves, etc. Still cold, especially the floor, with ice on the inside of the door.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:12 AM

Brrrrrrrrrr!!!

Cold as a step-mother's kiss here, as well, maeve... Not that cold, tho... 22F...

Hope ya'll get that stove crankin' soon...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 09:20 AM

The stove will be good when we can afford stovepipe and installation. We'll see what can happen and when. It would help us to be warm, to have water, etc.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 03:33 PM

"Gnu- "to what surfaces will you be applying this clay?" If we use it, it would be on wallboard, gnu. In addition, it would be months from now."

Oh... so it must be cheaper than paint. That will help pay for the flue.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 04:02 PM

Wouldn't that be convenient! If only things worked that way.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 04:17 PM

You spell just fine, Kat...maybe not, Janie. If I could, I'd spell up a toasty warm stove and whatever else maeve needs to warm up!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 05:52 PM

Is it possibble to get stovepipe from freecycle? It seems that it is the sort of thing people hang onto thinking someone would need it some day. mg

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 01:22 PM

Seems very unlikely since it is so expensive but it's worth a shot. How much do you need marve? Last time I priced it I was shocked. The stove I had was a 6" so I bought 6" and 8" pipe and used screws as spacers. It was a heck of a job involving a LOT of swearing and took quite a while but it met code... of course, it was in a camp and I wouldn't recommend it in a home.

BTW, if anyone does what I did and, use regular screws and a drill. If you use self-tapping screws, grind the bit after you start the screw.... or be REALLY careful.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:16 PM

Thanks, friends.

Having lost our home to a fire we will, naturally, use only recommended new materials and a professional stove set-up. You're right, gnu; both insulated pipe is costly. We'll take care of it as soon as we can. I'm sure you all understand I won't be discussing finances here.

We are responsible for closing off the wall seams, some expanding foam insulation, and all external trim before the crew does anything more.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:13 PM

Sorry- I meant to say, "both insulated pipe and the roof set-up are costly."

It has been encouraging to hear from others in the area regarding the look of our yurt. So far, they seem to understand the combination of beauty and efficiency that makes this design a good choice.The framing for the bathroom also helps me visualize how the rest of the room partitions will look when we eventually build them.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:17 AM

Maeve, whenever I picture your new home I am reminded of an experience I had a few years ago that you may find of interest:

Singing in a dome

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:08 AM

Thank you, Allan. That was a fun read! I hope our new home will be a good place for joyful noise. I've certainly enjoyed our sound tests.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

Are you going wait on electricians until the interior walls are framed, or will there be a couple of stages of electrical work? I'm thinking of some of those out of the way places where plugs can be really handy but that may not appear on your plans since this is prefab, but would be really useful.

Three years ago I had a windfall that I dedicated to having some junction boxes installed or moved. In the hall, on the front porch, and in the front room ceiling for a fan and light. They tapped into existing lines, but ideally these things are all put in place before the wall board and ceiling goes up.

In my office they installed a double size box on the wall I thought I'd use for the computer. Four plugs in one spot. I've since moved the computer, but those four plugs are on the wall where I now have the sound system and I make use of all of them.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 12:50 PM

All of this is to be done in stages, Stilly. If we proceed with our plan to use blown cellulose insulation, we need to have the exterior wall wiring done first. Changing or adding on will be a misery otherwise. Since the bathroom partition walls are the only interior walls we can afford right now, the exterior wall wiring is all we're planning on at the moment. Interior wall wiring can be easily done from the basement whenever we're ready for it.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 02:38 PM

I tell you what: those friendly folks who'd enjoy posting ideas for what you love about your kitchen set-up or you wish you had, post it here. If nothing else, it will entertain us all until the next stage of yurt building is ready to post. It may help me design the perfect yurt kitchen.

The kitchen will be part of the open half of the yurt. It will have an entry to a walled pantry on one side, and the wood stove for this winter's cooking and for heat on the other side of the kitchen space. We plan an island with a seating area and the kitchen sink will be there, facing into the open area.

We both enjoy cooking, and I especially like to bake. We're looking for excellent storage, with everything put away in logical cupboards, drawers, shelves, etc. There will be a root cellar in the basement and as I mentioned, a pantry. We have many options for online and local design tools, but are interested in your personal best ideas, should you be willing to share them.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 04:58 PM

Okay, here are some kitchen thoughts.

Carmen and I live in the basement of our house. The upper floors are rented to Carmen's son and his family. We live in a little less than a thousand square feet. Thus, our kitchen is somewhat compact. Because of local fire laws we were not allowed to put in a regular range and oven. But we make do very well with a portable counter-top induction single-burner range and a combination microwave/convection oven.

Both of us love to cook and to bake. There is nothing, (except perhaps a 24 pound turkey,) that we can't cook or bake. Well, yes, there is one thing we can't do: we can't broil very well. And I do miss making cinnamon toast from time to time. But almost any other broiling can be done on the combination wood and gas grill and smoker we have parked in the yard. I keep that pretty busy all year 'round.

I think a lot of people are surprised that we can do as well as we do without a range and oven, but some mighty delicious food comes out of our small kitchen.

One thing we didn't skimp on was the pantry. It is a luxury that makes cooking a true joy. Even with the small floor space, (about 4 X 6 feet,) there is plenty of wall space for wire shelving to hold canned goods, baking needs, a few extra pots & pans, spices, bulky or seldom used cooking utensils, cookbooks, and the portable induction burner when we aren't using it. You'd be amazed at how much the pantry holds. Carmen is a true artist when it comes to making every inch count and never misses a chance to hang something from a hook.

I hope this gives you some ideas.


Allan

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:18 PM

When I was thinkin' about out kitchen one of the main things was to make it functional and inexpensive... There was an Amish furniture outlet in Harrisonburg so I checked out everything they had and built all the base cabinets out of unfinished chest of drawers the exception of two generic corner base cabinets which I bought from Lowes... I took of the tops and installed the cabinets, painted them and then put the counter top over them... Saved thousands of $$$... And they look really good...

For the pantry I built a "butler pantry" outta 3 cabinet/hutch unfinished combinations and joined them all in a line so we have 10 feet of base cabinetry and all those lovely shelves for food...

Be more than happy to take a couple pics and send 'um to you, maeve... They really were quite inexpensive...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:30 PM

One of my main advices is to not put a stovetop on an island as children are so tempted to climb up on islands. A sink would be fine and allow people to talk with guests and prepare food at the same time. I also would never put those old-fashioned flourescent fixtures anywhere in a house, except perhaps a basement that was not used much. They are so ugly and unhealthy. I do great in about 120 square feet and if a stove didn't come with the place, I would use one of those turbo ovens like I use at work..sit on a countertop and work great, especially with frozen meat. I would have a Dutch door. Heavy shutters that closed and locked.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:37 PM

Having seen maeve's ingenious use of space in their current abode, I can assure you that she will make use of every precious square inch of space while keeping the place uncluttered and homey. Not trying to discourage any suggestions. Keep them coming.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM

It's good to give them credit for having done their homework, though.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:12 PM

Great stuff!

Bobert... I would love to see your pics of what you have described. PM you my eaddy shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:16 PM

No problem, gn-ze... Of course it might be a couple of weeks seein' as I don't do digital...

But I think you'll like what we've done...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:36 AM

I was being restrained in my question about wiring - I had originally written about the kitchen and a couple of other areas, then dropped it out, thinking I was getting ahead of things.

Plugs in many places are what I like. And if you're putting in an island, I'd get one of those brass floor plugs mounted flush with the tile or planks or whatever the flooring will be, so that you can run power to the island without stringing an extension cord from the side of the room.

I like counter space to be somewhat open most of the time, so I keep many of my appliances on a chrome wire cart and a set of baker's shelves, and bring them over to the counters when I need them. That said, there are some holidays when it seems like everything needs to run at once, and then I'm glad to have outlets with every segment of the counters to spread out on. Bread machine to mix dough, counter top blender, roaster oven, convection oven, mixers, etc. My microwave and blender are always out in the same places, everything else lives out of the way until needed. (I remember when my Dad had Song Circle meet at his house, he had his tiny kitchen and dining area set up with crock pots, coffee makers, etc. and I think he had to run a couple of those electrical taps, but those can blow a circuit.) Appropriate technology.

I have been a fan of Roger Ebert for years, and even though he has a stomach tube now, he still regularly blogs about cooking. (He wants us to enjoy it for him!) And one of his favorite appliances is a rice cooker. I followed him far enough down that culinary rabbit hole a while back that I went ahead and bought one for myself. It can do a lot more than just cook rice, so if you haven't already tried one, it might be a good item on the wish list when it comes to people wanting to send useful house warming gifts. (I picked up a Cuisinart one that has a stainless steel steamer basket that fits over the top and I love it.) I set it up as close to the stove as possible when I use it, to let the steam go out through the stove hood.

I've lived in houses and apartments without good ventilation, and hated it when the house filled up with the smell of every cooked meal. If you don't mind putting a hole through the roof, or out the side wall, have an exhaust fan that really does exhaust.

I'll stop there.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:49 AM

Just to re-empathize what SRS said: you cannot possibly have too many outlets in a kitchen - or anywhere else for that matter! I also second the comment about ventilation. While in the wintertime it is sometimes helpful to put a bit of moisture into the air by way of a steaming pot, in the summer it can make your space feel like a jungle.

BTW, I am a staunch believer in a brightly lit kitchen. However, I also very much appreciate the strings of low voltage "accent lights" we have attached to the underside of the hanging cabinets. These little lamps look a bit like glorified fuses, (the kind they used to use in cars, for instance.) They are very small, clear tubes about 2 inches long and have metal caps on either end which allow them to snap into small receiving brackets. We take full advantage of these low voltage lights by attaching them to a dimmer. Sometimes, you know, all you need is enough light to find your coffee cup and a spoon.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 07:25 AM

These are very helpful ideas. I'll continue to read and think about our achievable options as your interesting posts appear. Thanks very much.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 10:39 AM

Allan, I love under-cabinet lighting. They give the room an elegant look but at the same time, they're perfect task lighting.

I put in some fixtures on down-rods in the kitchen and dining room last year and I like the look of those also. The light isn't on the ceiling lighting the entire room, it is a few feet above the counter, lighting just the counter, but centered over the counter so no one hits their head on it. I've also seen some attractive lighting worked into pot racks (Lowes), but I think one of those would dwarf my kitchen.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bettynh
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:23 PM

The TV show "This Old House" did a kitchen planning show recently. They had arranged big cardboard boxes in the kitchen space and drew in spaces for cooktops, sinks, etc. and wandered around thinking about it. They brought in a cook, who looked around and said that he would eliminate about half the cabinet doors, so he could see and reach for his most-used pots and appliances. He also argued for a center island without any insert - no stovetop or sink, since he found workspace most important. For myself, I'd want counterspace near anything (microwave, oven) that yields hot food.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: ClaireBear
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:23 PM

Here's my number-one kitchen want: maybe it's because I'm short, but I find the typical stovetop layout absurdly impractical -- especially when I'm cooking with someone or doing something interaction-intensive, like working three woks at once for a Chinese meal.

So should I ever get to build a kitchen from scratch, one thing that is definitely happening is that I'm getting two double-burner units and then putting them in side by side, so I end up with a stovetop layout that's like this:
------------------
[ O O ] [ O O ]
------------------

instead of the typical layout, like this:

--------
[ O O ]
|      |
[ O O ]
--------


Bever having to reach over one hot pan to get to another is my idea of heaven. Plus, it goes on a shallower counter, so you end up with cupboards you can see to the back of -- and more floor space.

Best wishes!
Claire

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:20 PM

I like that idea - having more than once put a pan on one burner & turning on the one in front/behind.

My stove is electric & as I don't have enough bench space (a common complaint!) I cover my burners with cute covers & use the space. First 2 sets were decorated with flowers, current set that I intend to keep has ducks which match the contact plastic on the board that I put on my freezer which is my working space.

Sets have been replaced cos turning on the heat under them has unfortunate consequences, tho it never leads to the smoke alarm going off, just a a bit of a smell & another ruined cover.

One of the ducks got heated recently - I've become very fast at removing them. Score so far - 3 totally ruined covers, & several heated covers.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 11:39 PM

I have a beautiful nickel plated antique kettle with water in it that sits on my stove top on one of the burners. When I cook something, as soon as I take the pan off the burner and turn it off, the kettle goes on the hot eye to absorb heat. I started this years ago when the cats weren't always good about not hopping up on the counters or the stove, and I didn't want any singed critters. Now it's just habit.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Janie
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 01:02 AM

I dunno maeve, I've never had the luxury of a kitchen that suited me. Having said that, the two best designed kitchens I have had were also the smallest. One was the kitchen in our Airstream and the other was the kitchen in a mobile home. Both made very efficient use of small space and had remarkable storage capacity for their small footprints. I really dislike my kitchen in this house. It is ugly, very inefficient, and has less storage space than even the Airstream. I'm a bit of a gear hound when it comes to kitchen, so don't know if the kitchen exists that has enough storage space for me. While I am good at making do with what I have, in the kitchen, having the right, good quality tool for the job greatly enhances the efficiency and pleasure of cooking and baking, especially with respect to baking pans and knives. I also really like to have plenty of mixing and sorting bowls in numerous sizes, and at least 2 sets each of dry and liquid measuring cups and spoons. I don't have a dishwasher, and would rather wash more dishes than have to repeatedly wash and dry the same measuring implements.

I think the 1st question to answer is how many people are usually in the kitchen working at one time?   I have mostly been on my own in my own kitchen, so find a galley kitchen very efficient. If I routinely had at least one other person working with me, I would prefer something with more distance between work stations and would adhere pretty closely to the classic triangle of stove, sink and refrigerator. That is the configuration of my Mom's kitchen, which is pretty efficient, and allows sufficient space for at least 2 people to work without tromping all over one another.

I will tend to avoid recipes that are much easier to prepare with a small appliance such as a food processor, blender, waffle iron or electric mixer because I have to keep those items stored where it takes a little digging to get to them.

If I had more money than I knew what to do with, I would definitely take advantage of the more recent small appliance "garage" designs for my food processor, blender and a good stand mixer (which I have never owned), because they would be very accessible and I would use them more and cook more diversely.

My kitchen is not busy enough these days for hanging storage of pots and pans to make sense. Unless I use a pot at least once a week, hanging it turns it into a dust collector.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: mouldy
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 03:19 AM

When I had my kitchen opened out and re-fitted in my last house, the electrician asked me how many power sockets I wanted. I told him as many as he could give me. I think I had 11 counter-level and 3 lower down. If there hadn't been a massive window just above the main counter, I would have had more - there's nothing worse than not having power where you need it! Starting from scratch is a wonderful opportunity to get it exactly as you want.
The other thing that I need a lot of is storage. It's definitely lacking in this new place, but I intend to do a rebuild before long.

Friends of mine did a barn conversion and did an open plan cooking/ dining/ sitting theme as you moved from one end to the other. They had an island unit with a 6 burner gas hob, and round sink built in; a gas-fired Aga in a recess at the back. Most of the storage was round behind in a butler's pantry - marvellous! Fridge, freezer, store cupboards, washing appliances all tucked away. They then got an artist daughter of a friend to make a trompe l'oeuil door for it which gave the effect of a recess with shelves containing Cornishware jars, old brass scales and cookery books, etc.

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 05:39 AM

Here is a link to the under cabinet lighting I was talking about. Please also note the "customers who purchased this ..." listing. I believe all of those items are necessary, but check with your electrician. Notice on the right of the page they show a lens or cover for the lamps. We didn't bother with this and don't really see the need.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 07:47 AM

Thank you all. We're both finding it difficult to focus on future needs while we're still just managing survival. The ideas we are able to plan for may take months or years to become reality, so all of these different descriptions are quite helpful in making those plans. We appreciate the thought that has clearly gone into all recommendations posted here; wiring and lighting, tools and appliances, use of space, innovative storage solutions, etc.

We like to cook and clean up together when possible, so will need to think through how work stations can be managed. We'll only have the wood stove for heating and cleaning for now, so need to remember to factor in the eventual space for and purchase of a propane stove and tank and a good refrigerator, as well. We have a stack of charming antique and vintage cabinet doors in storage, so may be able to have some basic cabinet carcasses made for them.

Any other thoughts?

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 09:46 AM

Are you going to have steps down to the basement, maeve??? If so, you might even want to consider doing what the used to be done in homes in the early 1800s and that is put yer kitchen in the basement... The old hotel I own was built around a federalist style brick house (circa 1815) and in the basement is where all the cooking was done... There's a massive fireplace down there and the heat from it went up thru vents to heat the house... Just an idea... Yes, I know that you have to run triple walled pipe thru floors and roofs but if yer gonna have to devote part of yer floor plan to a wood/coal stove anyway then instead of a large stove in the middle of yer living space it will be under you doing the same thing???

Just food fir thought...

Are ya'll fully enclosed yet???

BTW, there's a ton of "R Factor" in cheap 6 mil plastic for yer interior walls while waiting on wiring & insulation prior of wall board/paneling... Just the idea of an air pocket between you and the outside will make the house alot warmer...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 11:43 AM

Bobert-

Steps down to the basement...
Yes, when we can afford them. We don't dare use the basement as part of the living space. Taxes would be more than we can afford. We're also planning for one level living so any guests with mobility issues and we as we age don't have to navigate stairs. Thanks for the idea, anyway.

"Are ya'll fully enclosed yet???..."
We are fully enclosed as far as having the skylight, roof, wall panels, and yurt windows and doors in and sealed. As I was talking about a couple of posts ago, TL and I still have the 35 open wall seam with weather blocking strips to overlap, staple and tape, and 35 sets each of top of wall trim, exterior vertical trim, fascia including extended eave barge fascia, and such. All call for compressor and various nail/brad/stapleguns which we are tracking down. Then we have caulking and spray foam sealing to do. Then the yurt will be weather tight for sure.

"BTW, there's a ton of "R Factor" in cheap 6 mil plastic..."
I'm glad you mentioned that. We told our contractor we'd be doing that until we can get wiring, plumbing, and blown cellulose in place. He tried hard to push us into rushing the wiring/plumbing step to get the insulation in, saying the plastic wouldn't make any difference. Fortunately, we are standing our ground and will take the time needed to plan and install all systems correctly. The wall insulation will be scheduled after the systems are in, the rest of the contractor tasks will all wait for when we can pay for them.

Thanks, everyone. Perhaps I won't lose my mind just yet.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 12:38 PM

I wish we were nearby so the group could converge and help with the tools we own that you need. My ladder, Bobert's power tools, etc.

I own a pickup truck, so when my contractor (who is also a friend) was working and I was home he'd come in and tell me when he needed something. And if it was something easy, he'd tell me "I can stop what I'm doing and drive over and get the sheet rock, and you'll be paying me for that, but if you drive over and get the sheet rock, you're still paying me to do the carpentry." Hard to beat that argument! I appreciated being able to keep things moving by running a few errands. It's nice when the pressure is gentle and on your behalf.

Distilling our remarks, it looks like good lighting, ample outlets, and accessible counter space are the big three. It's nice if the lights can be built in, but I've had great luck putting a couple of screws in the bottom of the cabinet and hooking up one of those inexpensive 12 inch florescent wands. In my living room I set up one of those strings of three round halogen fixtures that you see in china cupboards. I mounted them each to a small piece of luan for stability and they serve as uplights in front of my fireplace. They could also work under cabinets (I've seen them on This Old House. In other words, these great features don't need to be expensive and you can do them yourself.

Do you plan to have a kitchen table and a dining room table, or will you have a counter with stools for casual dining in the kitchen, and a larger table for other meals? When I moved in I extended the penninsula counter top by 12 inches to create an overhang that I tuck a stool under. This is the stool that stands in front of the stove when I'm using the steam juicer in preparation for canning, but the rest of the time it's for people to sit on.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 01:12 PM

"We plan an island with a seating area and the kitchen sink will be there, facing into the open area."

We will hope for one table in addition to the island overhang for stools, Stilly. It's likely it will be a multi-functional farm table sort of thing. As for lighting, we are looking for LED lights wherever possible. I need to avoid visible fluorescent light fixtures, and the halogens generate too much heat.

Some of this conversation is a good way to plan our needs. Some of it is whistling in the dark for me. It's a struggle to keep our chins up.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 02:30 PM

Crap.... As part of gettin' ready to move we sold (ha, gave away) a nice old dining table (5 leaves) that could be used as either a round table (52 inch diameter) and open up to seat up to 12...

Grrrrr.... It only brought $50 at auction but alot of other stuff brought crazy $$$$ so everything kinda balanced out...

BTW, as a home owner, can you pull yer own electrical permit??? If so, wiring is really purdy easy and if ya' have a "main breaker" in yer panel then wiring in the other breakers is a piece of cake... Of course, ol' hillbilly doesn't much care about "main breakers" 'cause I been doing it all my life... But this, at least gives you lectrical where you need it...

I assume yer going to put the panel in the basement??? No??? There are advantages to having it there... BTW, seein' as you aren't going to have too many interior walls you are going to find that floor plugs work really well... The problem with them is that they are expensive (like $40 each with metal cover plates) so shop around if yer gonna need several...

BTW, I think I have the triple walled stove pipe thingy for going thru the roof so if ya'll don't have it, I might try to hunt it down... Yes, it's stainless...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 11 - 08:40 PM

If you hit the jackpot, think about this table. It fits lots of occasions. Just don't get a pinch when it closes.

Halogen bulbs have come a long way in the last dozen years or so and I have a lot of them. As the curly florescent bulbs go I'm not replacing them. I didn't have the same complaints that Mary expressed, I just don't like them. The one florescent type that I do have is the Ott lamp for task lighting. I use a lot of LEDs. You could probably get some interesting under cabinet lighting by running a string of LED holiday lights under there. ($10 on sale after christmas)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: maeve
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 04:32 PM

The electrical panel is in the basement. For the time being, we could wire if we chose to do so. We have enough to do without that, although we may do some of the interior wall wiring later on.

Stilly, that is one interesting table!

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 05:16 PM

would be great if you could get hold of some discarded curved benches

curved benches

to use as counter top with simple steel wire shelving underneath
wire cart

one of these for extra work surface when needed

and utility trolley

And pretty country print wipedown table clothes to hang underneath the curved bench counters to hide the trolleys.

Just some thoughts on how to fit a round kitchen cheaply and eco friendly.

All easy to clean to.

Subject: RE: BS: New Beginnings - new foundation (maeve & TL)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 11 - 06:41 PM

The fancy restaurant supply places have some expensive wire racks and shelves (Container Store also, and probably many other places). Check Sam's Club first if you're thinking of shopping for some of those- you can save a lot. I have a six-shelf rolling heavy duty chrome wire rack that is my pantry. It sits in the hall, and I have bungee cords wrapped around it to keep things from pitching off. VT, you probably don't have Sam's Club, but do you have Walmart? They're affiliated.

maeve, when you're wiring the electric, think about placing some junction boxes and running cat-5 for data. In this day and age, those are very useful. I realized I could wire my house easily through the attic, and I've run a data line and a coaxial cable into the living room, the front room, my office, my sun room, and the front of the three bedrooms. I'll probably put them in the two other bedrooms when it warms up again in the spring. I get the Leviton covers and jacks at Home Depot and they're cheap and easy to wire. I also ran phone line and jacks, but for now, we don't have a land line. I could reuse that line for something else, put on a different jack. I ran it as a star pattern, radiating out from the hall closet where I've plugged in the modem and router that serves up to four wired locations. Even if you set up only a couple, they're useful for when people want to plug in games (Wii, Playstation, etc.), computers, or things like a BluRay player that streams Internet and Netflix. I know, I'm getting ahead of your anticipated technology and devices, but it is a lot easier to run those lines and install the j-boxes now than to do it later and fish for line in the walls.

SRS