BS: Compensation culture

Subject: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 07:35 AM

A rapist serving an eight year sentence for a ten year catalogue of abuse against two girls and a boy (during which he raped one of the girls and the boy) has been granted legal aid to sue the Scottish Prison Service for compensation because he claims that he has lost self esteem and suffered 'stress, depression, disgust, embarrassment, humiliation and mental anguish' because of 'monotonous prison work and having no fitted toilets in his cell'. He's claiming £20000 in damages.

Even in today's litigious age this one really takes the cake! I wonder what settlement his victims got from the Criminal Injury Compensation Board?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 07:57 AM

The world is going mad - this is mild terminology for my true feelings

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 08:00 AM

He should try the average folk festival, then he'd know when he's well off!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 08:02 AM

There are too many people who are only TOO aware of their 'rights' but
have NO concept of their 'responsibilities' .

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: mooman
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 08:19 AM

Maybe they should at the same time review the length of his sentence which seems, at face value, mild given the horrible nature of his crimes.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 08:47 AM

lost self esteem and suffered 'stress, depression, disgust, embarrassment, humiliation and mental anguish'

he's a prisoner, right? And this (loss of self esteem etc) is wrong, why?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST,me
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 08:52 AM

Heard a great story the other day -- probably urban legend but I liked it...

Seems some guy took out insurance on a collection of very expensive cigars. Some year or so later, he files a claim -- seems all the cigars were burned up.

Well, the insurance company doesn't take this lying down -- they take the guy to court stating the obvious -- the cigars were consumed in a normal manner, to be expected.

The court finds in the man's favor -- seems the insurance company cannot have it both ways -- they cannot take the guy's premium $$ and then claim an unstated exclusion when the cigars are burned up.

But wait. But the story's not over...

The insurance company files legal charges against the claimant -- arson. The fellow is found guilty of serial arson and sent to jail.

Ah, sweet justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 09:16 AM

Yeah, it's called a "frivolous lawsuit" on this side of the water. And lots of states discipline any attorney who brings them. It costs the government lots of money to defend against them -- valid suits, like being chained to a metal post in the hot sun of Mississippi (a real suit), yeah, no problem, but things like "I was served mushy Pop-Tarts" (another real suit) shouldn't be allowed and aren't.

Gee -- no fitted toilet (I'm not sure what that means.) Wasn't all that long ago you had a bucket.

It's not compensation. Compensation is something due you. This is fishing for money.

I wonder if his self-esteem would be injured if he was convicted in, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan? Or even in Scotland, oh, say, 100 years ago?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:04 AM

Also, here in UK, he will get his legal expences paid for by the state.
Would that happen in the US ?

And the old triangle goes jingle jangle,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:11 AM

Bringing suit and winning are two diiferent horses. Sounds like the guys just wants to get a couple rides outta the prison, see somethin' other than beige walls and be around folks that wear the other kinds stripes, pin stripes...

In the US, this wouldn't get past the preliminary hearing stage, unless of course, the guy has some high powered attorneys or friends in the White House...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:47 AM

Problem is that, even if it doesn't get very far it will cost the taxpayers in legal costs for both sides and that ain't cheap!

I'm afraid that I have very little faith in our 'justice' system, which seems almost to bend over backwards to accommodate those who least deserve it and penalises those that need it.

a lot of these cases are brought under the 'Human Rights' umbrella that these low lifes will manipulate to their own advantage. What about the human rights of the victims? To my way of thinking someone who can behave in the way this man did loses the majority of his human rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: muppett
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 10:49 AM

on Terry Wogan show (a UK breakfast radio show) t'other day

Woman sued a resturant as,as she got up from her table to leave she sliped on some spilt cola and sprained her ankle. the reason it was there was she'd had an argument with her boyfriend and threw the glass of cola over him.

another tale

Woman sued a department store as she also injured her ankle after tripping over a toddler who was wandering round the store. She was Mother of the toddler.

One more

A man sued the owner of a car which ran him over. However the at time the man was laid under the car, attempting to steal the hup caps. the owner of the car hadn't seen him & got in the car & drove off over the man.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 11:48 AM

I have no sympathy for those who file frivolous suits. Learnt this from my-wife-the-lawyer. Here's one she handled some years ago -- she was, at the time, the Assistant General Counsel for a major US University -- you'd probably have heard of it if I told the name.

A male student from New Jersey was accepted as a freshman (the University is highly competitive, by the way, and a private school). At the end of his first semester he had a grade point average of 0.9 on a four point system and was placed on academic probation. At the end of his freshman year he'd brought the GPA up to where he could enroll as a sophomore, but would still be on academic pro, and was told that if his GPA didn't move into acceptable areas that semester would be his last. (By the way, the school has special programs to help students succeed!)

His GPA dropped to 0.8, and the school tossed him out.

He went back to New Jersey and whined and cried to daddy, telling dear old dad that he was tossed out because the teachers didn't like him and basically told him everything except the truth. Daddy, a great fan of the school, was irate and called a lawyer. The lawyer called my wife, using the argument that:

"Because the kid had been accepted at the school, the school OWED him a degree."

She laughed, got the kid's files, had a copy certified and sent it to the lawyer. The lawyer talked to daddy, whose anger was re-directed. Now get this: Daddy called my wife and apologized! Only time THAT ever happened.

Interesting argument, though. Maybe I'll get a doctorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 07:07 PM

Lawyers....ruining our world!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Nerd
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 03:26 PM

People in our universities, even at the doctoral level, often have this attitude. There was one woman I went to grad school with who would consistently get Bs on all her papers, re-write them to the professors' specs, and get their grades changed to As. (To clarify this situation, in our Grad School, unless you maintain an average at around the B plus level, they ask you to downgrade from the PhD program to the masters.) So I would do the papers the first time and get my A or A minus--more often the latter. I would feel funny asking for a rewrite on an A minus, so I would just accept it. She ended up with a far higher average than I had, because she would impose on profs for all these re-writes. When I asked her how she felt justified in doing this, she said "I'm not paying them tuition to give me Bs!"

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:13 PM

Dang, when I went to grad school you didn't get any rewrites.

And frankly, that's what I'd do were I teaching. Publish a book, for instance, and if you've blown it you don't get to rewrite it -- you've made a fool of yourself, so live with it. Drive a car into a crowded schoolyard, you don't get a rewrite. Screw up a romantic relationship, eat the wrong thing, step out of the airplane at 3000 feet -- there are no rewrites.

How, exactly, is that learning?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:45 PM

That's the problem - a lot of people don't learn - they always have to find someone else to blame for the mistakes they make over and over again.

Our judicial system seems to bend over backwards to 'understand' and help the wrongdoer. Some of the sentences that get handed out are laughable - I know that sometimes their hands are tied by the points system we have in this country but it seems that the lawmakers have been infiltrated by the dogooding element who have this idea that nobody is wicked, just misguided.

I would admit that I'm probably to the right of Atilla the Hun insofar as criminals are concerned - especially those that harm children

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 06:28 PM

Folks are "misguided" to A Certain Element only until that Element is mugged, robbed, raped, or otherwise personally involved.

Some years back our front door was kicked in and my wife's purse taken. Cost us a bunch to get the door fixed, and that was WITH the insurance. We were able, by that midnight, to have reported the theft to all the credit card companies, etc. etc.

Now, after such a thing you're supposed to feel violated and used. Neither of us did -- we were ALMIGHTLY pissed off, however.

I'm like jacqui -- to the right of Attila when kids are involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 07:20 PM

A different take on this thread....

In 2002 I had to go into hospital for a small operation.
I was expected to spend two days in hospital then return to work in one month max.
While in hospital, which was filthy, I contracted MRSA, which meant a stay of two months, in which time my condition did not improve, then convalesance at home for nine months before return to work.

My treatment involved massive doses of antibiotics, and I still dont feel 100%.
I now have the option of sueing the National Heath Service for loss of earnings ect,a course which I am reluctant to take.

On the other hand I feel that if I dont take some action, Hospital conditions will continue to deteriorate...Any ideas...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 07:48 PM

Ake - I actually work as an injury claims negotiator for an insurance company so I see that side of the compensation game every day. As far as I'm concerned, if someone has a righteous cause for compensation, such as being run down by one of our insureds, then it is only just that they get remuneration for the injuries and other losses. Of course the solicitors will try to maximise the claim but that is where I earn my money - making sure that any claim is justified and that we don't lose too much on inflated claims. In your situation I would be suing the NHS. I don't think that there will be any real improvement there until the bean counters actually realise that poor standards of hygene cost them more than they save.

It's the likes of this prisoner or the guy in the Tony Martin affair who really get my goat. They manipulate the system to their own ends, costing the taxpayer thousands of pounds in the process, and get away with it! I'm not generally a great fan of the press but they did a good job with that guy - whose name I can't remember - was it Brendon Fearon?, who wanted to sue Tony Martin for damages as a result of the gunshot wound he sustained. The press managed to get pictures of him showing that he was not as incapacitated as he made out and the suit got dropped, but not before he had started racking up legal aid bills that will be paid by the taxpayer - me and you!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 08:06 PM

Thanks Jacqui....I believe there is a "test case2 going through court a the moment.
Apparently the problem is in proving that MRSA was not present before admission to hospital.
The conditions were indeed horrific.
Excrement on lavatory walls, toilets not cleaned for ten days, baths with five "tide marks",these baths used by patients with open wounds.
When I complained, I was told that cleaners had too much work to do ,and too little time.   The nurses appeared uncaring about the condition of wards or toilets....So much for privatisation...Ake
PS Glad to talk to you ,I enjoy your posts very much....

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 02:42 AM

Thanks Ake.

I've had two stays in hospital since December and MRSA was something that did concern me. The hospital had a poor record for infection but one op was an emergency and I'd been waiting over a year for the other one so didn't really want to have to try elsewhere, even if that were possible.

Luckily the standard of cleanliness wasn't as bad as I'd feared. It could have been better but it is profit before all else these days. My big complaint was with the food - it was diabolical - but I had supplies brought in and, luckily, wasn't in long enough to suffer from malnutrition!

I think that we, as a nation, need to get into the habit of complaining loud and long about the poor service we receive and complain to the top - not the poor buggers trying to do their best with limited resources. Problem is we've been brought up not to make away a fuss, which is why these horrors who milk the system get away with so much - nobody really knocks them back.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 06:58 AM

In this country we are not allowed to sue for personal injury. Does that sound good to you?
We have a government agency called The Accident Compensation Corporation, or Commission, or something. ACC, anyway.
This gives cover of 80% of your average wage in the event of temporary disablement leading to loss of income, and emergency medical treatment.
That is, 80% of last years average wage.
Fair play, they were trying to be fair to us all. However.
This means that the minimum required motor insurance is supplied by the state, personal injury. If a teenage (or vintage) idiot slides his old banger down your new Beamer, jolly bad luck, old chap. Sue him/her.
It means that criminals have been compensated for injuries suffered whilst committing crime.
It means that prison inmates have been compensated for injuries suffered whilst trying to escape.
Yes, the legal system administers the legal aid here, too.You don't have to pay it back, even if you are found guilty. Means we are paying people to try to avoid crimes they are guilty of.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 07:21 PM

I could almost pity the poor bastard who kicks my door in in the middle of the night. Guaranteed he would not sue.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jul 04 - 04:50 AM

I have tried a lot of average folk festivals and I find myself rich. Rich in creativity, rich in friends, rich in joire de vivre, rich in rose tinted specs (prescription lenses so that's OK), rich in self esteem (OK call me cocky) slightly less rich in the pocket but hey - you can't eat money.

It is human nature (for some any way) to complain and de riguer to blame the other guy (especially when in the wrong).

What ever happened to personal responsibility. OR, for that matter, community spirit ? The lawyers have it - you try sueing a lawyer - doesn't compute does it!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 04 - 01:18 PM

MRSA.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jul 04 - 01:38 PM

Don't blame the lawyers, they are simply doing their jobs. They are like seagulls, a necessary evil. THEY don't start suits, the greedy public does that.
And there are times when compensation is deserved like the little girl who lost her arm in an unguarded machine. What would that be worth to you if it were your little girl?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Guessed
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 06:57 AM

pre-victorian picture (possibly published in Punch but the concept is much much older)

farmer pulling on a cow's tail, neighbour pulling on the nose. Lawyer sitting at the milking stool filling the pail. I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 07:06 AM

LAWYERS ARE VULTURES! THEY WILL ARGUE THAT BLACK IS WHITE SO LONG AS THEY GET PAID.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 07:10 AM

If the prisoner's basic human rights were being denied through the poor conditions, then he has a right to challenge on this issue, whether he is a despicable piece of dirt or not. Human Rights are universal and even the lowest of the low are entitled to them.

Poor conditions in prison are a major factor in the high rates of prison suicides, and mental health problems are also extremely high amongst prisoners.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:24 AM

In the UK it is now common for solicitors to advertise for business from anyone who has had an accident in the past three years. They do this in the newspapers, on TV and radio and even in hospital A&E units.

My son has recently had cause to sue his ex employers for a back injury caused by their negligence. His solicitor is now encouraging him to increase the amount of his claim by including the cost of retraining for another career. Andy wouldn't even have thought about this if not prompted and would have been quite content to have his loss of earnings and an amount for pain and suffering. Of course, the bigger the payout the more money the solicitor can make in costs from the defendant.

I'm in total agreement that anyone who has a righteous cause of action should be compensated. Prison is not supposed to be easy - it should be a deterrent. What human rights are being denied if a person has to undertake menial duties in prison - a lot of our population have to do these sort of duties to make a living - are their human rights being denied?And if the guy has to 'slop out' instead of having a toilet in his cell?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 09:33 AM

Notice I said "if". And it is for the courts to decide "if" it is the case that human rights are being breached.

But on a lighter note, Someone knocked on my door a few weeks ago and asked me if I had recently had an accident. When I said no, they asked if I knew anyone who had had an accident and would I pass on their leaflet to them!! Have also had a couple of phone calls to the same effect!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:26 PM

Yes - because they know that they can make money out of it. Nowadays they will take a case on but with an insurance policy up front to cover the costs if they lose The premium is paid by the claimant and recovered from the defendant in the event of a win, so the solicitor has no outlay and is sure to get his costs, even if the claim is unsuccessful.

I suppose it's better than before the recent reforms when they could apply for legal aid for a client who qualified. That meant that, even if the claim was unsuccessful the defendant couldn't go after the claimant for costs, so it was policyholders in the insurance companies and the taxpayer who funded what could be quite mischievous claims. If you wonder why your motor premiums are so high I can tell you that the average LEGAL cost alone of an injury claim is about £2500, and that's before you look at the payment to the claimant.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 12 Jul 04 - 05:01 PM

We have lawyers who advertise here also. There is no way that I would ever hire one of those bottom feeding ambulance chasers.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 10:16 AM

But you'll vote for one come November Kendall

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 10:28 AM

Come out of the shadows and we can discuss your idiotic statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 10:32 AM

"We have lawyers who advertise here also. There is no way that I would ever hire one of those bottom feeding ambulance chasers."

That's how John Edwards made his money wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jul 04 - 09:05 PM

Read my statement again. I said, I would never hire a lawyer who advertised.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 04:34 AM

No mention of hiring him - but you will vote for him come November

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 14 Jul 04 - 07:59 AM

Ok, so you just don't get it. Fine, vote for that lying phony coward.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Nerd
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 02:51 AM

GUEST,

do you have evidence that John Edwards advertised?

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 03:30 AM

Another NZ rort. Illegal immigrants, who have disposed of their papers in transit, are currently getting legal aid to plead their case for residence. They don't apply for it, their lawyers do. We taxpayers supply the legal aid, hospitality for the time, Police and prison officers to keep them there, and the search abroad to find out if they are who they now claim they are. Oh yes, and as they 'no spik,' a translater too.
Then they can't get a job, sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Sweetfia
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 03:59 AM

Regarding the first post...THAT IS DISCUSTING! Prisoners should have NO rights while thay are in prison except that they get feed and watered, and maybe even walked alittle - depending on how much an animal they have been. They are in prison because thay have infringed on someone else's rights, and if prison infringes on theirs then so be it...hopefully they will find out how it feels. And one thing i really can't stand in this country is when someone is sent down with a "life" sentence...they never bloody serve it, there's always this appeal thing going on!!

Well said Leadfingers (on that righs and responsibilities bit).

I think we are living in a compensation culture, you can't even sneeze nowadays with out someday trying to sue for polluting the air with germs with could have serious effect on their health which may make they ill off work which means loss in income...you get the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: kendall
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 07:07 AM

Our constitution forbids treating them as something sub human.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 07:28 AM

Whenever there appears (and I emphasise the word 'Appears') to be a gravy train around folk will want to get on it. But pursuing any kind of compensation case is, to put it bluntly, a pain in the arse and most people don't do it frivolously. Most cases are genuine and even if they are not successful there is at least a case to answer. We've all heard horror stories. Let's just not throw the baby out with the bathwater (at least without checking if we're covered...)

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: s6k
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 08:19 AM

the situation described in the first post is disgraceful.
i dont even have any words for how stupid that is.
other things that are stupid

- Scientists spending £300,000 on the formula for the perfect beach, or perfect cup of tea, and there are people in africa etc who cannot even afford to eat.

- A driver, who had no license, tax or MOT on his car, was recklessly driving and hit a man, a father to 2 children. he died.
The driver was fined £89.90 and let off with a warning.

A month ago, a driver with no tax, crashed into a tree. (he killed or injured nobody) and was fined £500 and jailed for 3 months.
This man who was killed, his kids will never see him again and his wife is now alone. the killer walks free.

so this makes me very angry, the entire law system needs sorting out because it is crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: el ted
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 08:55 AM

Just heard a fabulous interview on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 with an American Doctor. This chap (quite rightly) will no longer treat Lawyers, as he is sick of them sueing his arse off if he gets a comma wrong in their treatment!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Chris Green
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 09:33 AM

This is probably an urban myth but it tickled me! A bloke found a hair in his KFC meal and decided to sue the company for thousands of pounds. However, KFC successfully argued that he had been warned that the food might contain such an object as their advertising slogan at the time was "It Ain't Just Chicken!"

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: Sweetfia
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 09:49 AM

Lol!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Compensation culture
From: s6k
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 01:56 PM

ROFL