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BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden
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Subject: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 16 Jun 09 - 07:54 PM My Beautiful Wife is a rose fanatic. She puts in A LOT of time (and money, I might add) into wonderful roses, as well as other plants. Including some that I appreciate because they are good to eat. Enter the embodiment of evil! Beautiful evil, but evil, the enemy, no less. We live well within Indianapolis, next to a tiny woods (perhaps five acres), and near what I'll call a river corridor, up along which deer come and settle in the little woods, whence they calmly, deliberately stalk the yards in the neighborhood in search of provender so thoughtfully put out by those humans. In particular, right now we have a family of four white-tailed deer which raid the gardens in the neighborhood. And they seem to have a particular liking for my B.W.'s roses, or at least some of the varieties, along with other flowers and vegetables. When they first started showing up, say a year and a half ago, they were very shy, and were quickly alarmed at any sign of human movement, instantly vanishing into the woods with a flick of a white tail. But they've learned, I guess, that no one is actually allowed to harm them, so if they are observed, and even approached, they will calmly and unhurriedly turn and enter cover. No panic, no hurry. At first they were a delight (because unusual, and "so cute") and a treat to see, but now my B.W. (and I gather, all the neighbors) tears her hair, trying to maintain a garden, decorative or nutritional, in the face of the hungry intruders. Short of eight-foot fences, which we can't afford, what can we do? I understand there are plant species which deer don't like to eat, and some that actually repel them. But does anyone have any actual experience with such plants, or with commercial repellents which I gather exist? Effectiveness? Cost? Persistence of effect? Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Peace Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:01 PM Have you considered getting wolf urine? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:16 PM I've heard of it, but we have a little over an acre, wooded on two sides, with attractive edibles scattered widely over it. What's the cost of wolf urine? How persistent is it? How effective? Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM The P-Vine and I are authorities on deer... We have experiemented with every product known to mankind... Here are a list of things that won't work: *Coyote pee *Marorganite (sludge from the sewage treatment plant) *Human hair hung in little nylon socks from the roses *Ivory Soap shavings *Human pee Here are three products that will work: *Liguid Fence TM... It stinks but is about 99.9% effective *Deer fence which we are in the porcess of using around a 2 acre ornimental garden... *Lead poisoning as in shootin' the sumabiches Get the Liquid Fence... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Amos Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:28 PM Try a slingshot loaded with cherry bombs--light before firing. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Joybell Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:34 PM Uncle DaveO, I often think about those wonderful hours we spent with both of you. Your lovely garden and the woods. I try to outwit wallabies and possums. We love to have them here and they don't have many places left of their own -- but I understand. I really do. Last year True-love built me a food cage. You wouldn't believe how high a wallaby can jump, and possums are trapeze artists, so it's had to be completely covered over. I can now grow vegetables, at least. The only other thing that works to some extent is actually feeding the Possums -- bowls of apple and oats by the back door. Of course setting up a wildlife cafe can be expensive. I'm sure you've tried everything. We're much older than our visiting wildlife, aren't we? Why aren't we smarter? That's what I wonder. Anyway just had to say hello and good luck. Joy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:41 PM The cherry bombs won't work, Amos... I fire about a dozen bottle rockets a week at the sumabiches... Yeah, they run off and are back 5 minutes later... Uncle Dave... If it's just a small garden or roses then the Liquid Fence will do... But if, like us, you have large gardens then you might want to think about the deer fence... It is 100% effective... I've had it around my veggie garden for the last 4 years with no intruders... If you are interested in going this route then PM me and I might be able to get you close to wholesale pricing on it... BTW, the one I am putting up is going to be 1400 feet when finished but is going to save us $500 a year in Liquid Fence and countless hours of spraying... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Leadfingers Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:53 PM Bear or Big cat droppings ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: bobad Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:58 PM A dog. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:00 PM Uncle Dave et al- What you need to use is black netting, purchased from a garden supply shop. The deer definitely don't like it, it's not very visible, and the flowers will be very grateful. My mother has had a lot of success with it for the past three years. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Sandy Mc Lean Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:05 PM Single strand electric fence will quickly help them change their habits, but it can only be used where there are no small children. It may only have to be used for a short time. It is not very expensive for covering a large area. Some agriculture supply stores may rent them out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Ebbie Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:07 PM I have a friend in Coos Bay, Oregon, who has the same problem with elk. Can you imagine! 2 1/2 times bigger than deer with a commensurate appetite and even less fear. He says they are vermin, pure vermin. He says it isn't even fun to shoot them because every bite reminds him of where the meat came from... :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Alice Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:13 PM My grandfather Earl McConnell lived on his gold claim next to Yellowstone Park, and everything from elk to bear to antelope, big horn sheep, deer, etc. would have raided his garden. I shared his solution with Bobert back when he was discussing the deer/garden dilemma. My grandpa went to the dump and got old bed springs and stood them on end, side to side, all around his garden. A very high fence is the only 100% solution. Alice |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:21 PM Deer fencing is the only sure fire way. In SE pennsylvania, they ate holly, yucca and most everything else. Only skipped the hellebore, and little else. The friend for whom I did gardening is very experienced - 83 this year. She had tried everything. Deer fence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Peace Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:25 PM I like venison. Hint, hint. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 16 Jun 09 - 09:29 PM That "black netting" won't ever come out of yer plants... It will get so entangled that you'll wish you never used it... Believe me, I am the deer specialiost here... I have used everything that every garden website, garden TV show and every so-called garden specialist ahs suggested... Come to my place and see how many of my azaleas are stunted becasue we trieed "black netting"... Once you put ot on the plany grows into it and after no time at all it is part of yer palnt and the deer still eat it... Do not use "balck neeting"... It is a nigthmare... Use Liquid Fence of get real deer fencing... Bobert (Deer Specialist) BTW... We live adjacent to one of the largest deer refuges on the east coast, the Shenandoah National Park and we are major gardeners... Liquid Fence or Deer Fence... Period!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: plnelson Date: 16 Jun 09 - 11:06 PM First of all - these products that claim to be 100% coyote or wolf urine are fakes. Do the math - I called some local Agways and they sell dozens to hundreds of bottles of this stuff every year. Multiply that by all the Agways - nevermind that this stuff is also sold in zillions of other stores and on the web all over the US - you would need captive herds of thousands or 10's of thousands of coyotes or wolves to supply that much urine assuming an efficient method of capturing it. One company's website claims that it's collected in "zoos and game preserves" through the floorboards, but nevermiund the fact that there aren't enough zoos and game preserves in the country to supply that much urine, the other problem is that modern preserve and zoo management doesn't keep predators inside cages and stalls all day long. Instead they are allowed to roam a natural habitat where coyoyes and wolves pee a little bit here, there, and everywhere, to mark territory. Anyway, WRT deer - I've had excellent success using a single-strand electric fence powered by a Zareba Snap'R solar electric fence charger. It cost me about $80 and protects a perimeter of about 400 feet. To train the deer you hang a few pieces of aluminum foil baited with peanut butter - they touch it and get zapped and learn VERY quickly!! I've gotten zapped a couple of times with it and it hurts but doesn't do any harm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: plnelson Date: 16 Jun 09 - 11:14 PM WRT children and electric fences - modern electric fences produce very short high voltage, low current zaps once every second or so. It feels like a real bad static electric shock but I've never seen a dead animal near a fence. I grew up in the countryside in rural New England where lots of people had cattle fences and I spent a lot of time playing unsupervised out in the meadows and orchards where fences criss-crossed everything. And I never got zapped or even heard of any kids getting zapped. Our parents told us that if we touched that thing it would set our finger and toenails on fire, and that was good enough for us! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: VirginiaTam Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:33 AM I have heard a man's first pee in the morning will keep deer away. I don't recommend wizzing on the electric fence though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Georgiansilver Date: 17 Jun 09 - 03:05 AM Just a thought... in the UK we use scarecrows... human like figures.... to keep birds off prime farmland when good things are growing... could this possibly work with the deer or are they much much smarter than the birds and would realise the figure was not real???? Best wishes, Mike. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Gedpipes Date: 17 Jun 09 - 03:53 AM Why not get them culled if they are a pest? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: theleveller Date: 17 Jun 09 - 06:58 AM Used to have rabbits eating our vegetables - now we've eaten all of THEM. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Jun 09 - 07:11 AM Why not dog, Bobert? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Richard Bridge Date: 17 Jun 09 - 07:13 AM Oh, I forgot why I opened the thread. Every time I glance down the list of threads I mis-read "defecating" deer... Can you post one to Knockholt? It would make a nice change from sheep. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 09 - 07:50 AM Yes, the right dog works, also... We were toying with getting a dog and had a long thread here in Mudville about what kind to get... But in the end we choze not to get a dog for various reasons, the largest is that we live ina county were some folks will legally shoot a dog if it comes on their property... Yeah, I know that sounds kinda backward and it is backward... We have a gun crazed neighbor who is that kind of person... But, yeah, add dog to the list of what does work... Pee doesn't... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: My guru always said Date: 17 Jun 09 - 08:12 AM How about one wire (or string) with blank (or used) CD's (or DVD's) strung along your border? It works to deter Muntjack from coming through a friend's garden in the UK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jun 09 - 09:13 AM I'd sooner have deer than roses any day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Charley Noble Date: 17 Jun 09 - 10:52 AM "How about one wire (or string) with blank (or used) CD's (or DVD's) strung along your border?" There certainly are some CD's that would scare away both beast and man! You're probably right about the black netting getting entangled. But it does discourage the deer that were raiding my mother's flower beds. She also has a shotgun but at the age of 92 I'm not sure it would be a wise thing for her to be blazing away with it. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: George Papavgeris Date: 17 Jun 09 - 11:00 AM I'm glad it wasn't just me, Richard... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 17 Jun 09 - 11:16 AM Dear Uncle DaveO-- Our way to handle deer in the rose garden is just to let them eat their fill. We live in the foothills. Over the past twenty-five years human expansion to their habitat, and the curtailment of rain in Southern California, have severely impinged on their food supply. We've had, on occasion, five of those guys in the yard at one time. We do not begrudge them their lunch, and the plants re-rose themselves. We also have squirrels, raccoons, possums and skunks come through at various times. I love living where I do with all God's critters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:02 PM We definately need deer management... It is not humane to have such a large herd, not to mention the billions of dollars in damage that they create... This isn't all about developement here... It's about shortsightedness on the part of those who write hunting laws... Deer season should start on January 1st and end on December 31st... No limits should be imposed... Spot-lighting should be perfectly legal... Hey, it's gotten so bad that I saw a doe walking down McArthur Blvd. in Washington, D.C. a couple years ago... As fir deer being God's critters??? Ask my wife who is a gardener... No, ask any gardener unless it's one of them New York City roof toppers... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:41 PM Well if you must get rid of the wolves who'd normally balance out the numbers... As well as preferring deer to roses, I prefer wolves to "sporting hunters". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: VirginiaTam Date: 17 Jun 09 - 03:30 PM Bobert's right. In Fluvanna Va, when I lived there. Nothing was safe from the browsers. It was maddening to spend so much money and time on nice dinner for the deer. I lived in guarded community that did not permit fencing, dogs running loose, or hunting. Another big problem in central Va. was the auto accidents caused by deer. Hunting season needs to be longer. Then maybe there would be fewer hunting accidents caused by party mentality rife in the short season. Beer and guns is a terrible mix. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Dan Schatz Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:01 PM This morning we discovered a deer had eaten the sunflowers my two year old son was growing. I was very irritated at them before. Now I'm mad. Liquid Fence works okay, but you have to reapply it often, and sometimes they get to it anyway. Like Dave, we have an acre, with woods around it - not something that can be fenced (actually that would probably keep deer IN) - and obviously we have a small child, so the electric fence won't work. It's a problem, because the deer don't just eat our trees and flowers and shrubs - they also poop them, all over the place. Not something you want when you have a toddler. One thing I have done is get some garden caging and make round cages for new plantings. That seems to be working so far. But I didn't know I had to cage the sunflowers. Drat it. If you've ever read Phillip Pullman's book The Amber Spyglass, you'll know what I mean when I say that deer are the tualapi of our world - beautiful, but incredibly destructive. "They tore open the food stores, snarling and growling and tossing their great cruel beaks high as they swallowed the dried meat and all the preserved fruit and grain. Everything edible was gone in under a minute.... Then the great snow-white birds set about demolishing everything they could see...." Dan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: VirginiaTam Date: 17 Jun 09 - 04:13 PM wow! Haven't read Pullman in years. Time to crack them open again. Thanks Dan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: gnu Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:05 PM McGrath... "As well as preferring deer to roses, I prefer wolves to "sporting hunters"." Sporting hunters usually don't kill you, your livestock and your pets. But, it's a matter of personal choice, eh? I definitely prefer deer to roses... with pancakes and maple slurpup. Hellllooooo breakfast! Especially the rose and veggie garden fed deer.... mmmmmmm-mmmmmmm.... tastey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: TJO Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:46 PM Since there's more deer on the East Coast U.S. today than when the Pilgrims arrived, it's not a case of nasty humans forcing them out of their preferred habitat. Our backyards are creating a great habitat for them. And there's no co-existence possible. They will eat everything, all of it!! I'm with Bobert. Liquid Fence works, but it's pricey and tedious for a large area. A variation I'm experimenting with is a ribbon fence, run about deer-nose height around my acre property, and sprayed with Liquid Fence monthly. Best I've found so far, including an electric fence. Google Plot-Saver for info. Good luck! T.J. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Joybell Date: 17 Jun 09 - 07:56 PM John, you'd like our place. I actually went to a nursery and asked for some "good eating roses for the possums". The difference where we are is that we're not dealing with herd animals. At worst the plants get a bit of lopsided pruning by a lone wallaby. I well remember the day a herd of cows broke through a fence and ... well I can't go on it's too painful. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 09 - 08:12 PM Well, T.J., thanks for support on the Liquid Fence... We've been using it now for about 7 years... Yeah, it is pricey... And stinky... But it's more effective than anything else out there... I'm less than a month from having 1400 feet of deer fence around my wife's (P-Vine) ornimental gardens... It around 2 acres and it will be so nice to not have to spray it!!! Yes!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jun 09 - 08:35 PM How did those Pilgrims find the time to carry out a deer census of the East Coast? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 17 Jun 09 - 08:45 PM What else was there to do, McG??? I mean, like the women folk didn't arrive until 1619... The men had been here since 1606... That gave them 13 years with no distractions... You can count alot of deer in 13 years... Might of fact, seein' as there weren't no womenz, I'd venture a guess that some of them Pilgrims mighta had carnal knowledge of them deer... Now I ain't sayin' I got piccures 'er nuthin' but stranger things have happened... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: gnu Date: 17 Jun 09 - 10:16 PM Bobert... only way ta fuck a deer is downhill. They got longer back legs than front legs fer climbin and descendin hilly country at speed. I never even heard a anyone tryin it, but, there were many Scottish settlers in the new world, so I assume they would have assessed the situation in an analytical manner such as I. Baaaad bunch them fellers. Course, up here, we never had yer Virgin White Tails until the 1930s. Just caribou and moose. And they move slow. Easy pickins. In any case, buckwheat pancakes would be my deterrent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: plnelson Date: 17 Jun 09 - 11:50 PM I have heard a man's first pee in the morning will keep deer away. That works against smaller critters, like groundhogs, but it's tedious because you need a lot of pee and it has to be re-applied frequently. I used it successfully until I found the burrow and offed the groundhogs. See: http://blog.pnart.com/?p=19 and http://blog.pnart.com/?p=20 The key to effective pee fencing is meat - Eat meat a few hours beforehand - a nice steak or hamburger makes your pee say "carnivore". But really, on the deer - an electric fence, properly installed, is cheap, simple, and effective. I'm not sure why this thread is dragging on like this. I used it before I had the electric fence. The |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:04 AM I'll skip to the bottom to say my response is the same as Bruce's--venison. I have a great recipe for venison sausage in beans, if you'd like. . . SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: wysiwyg Date: 20 Jun 09 - 10:39 AM PL, the thread is "dragging on" because it's a Mudcat BS thread. Some of them have gone to thousands of posts. Nature of the beast-- no electric fences at the Cat. "Answering" a help request here has never ended a thread, that I've noticed.... perhaps it's because the common experience from Music threads has been that a new (fascinating) angle on an old answer can come in years after the question has first been asked, and we all kinda like it that way, I think. Back to fences-- I use a low-voltage hotwire designed for dogs, to keep my escape-artist dog inside his rickety old fence. We rent here and new, expensive fencing is not a simple "run to the store" kind of prospect.... but the dogs only needed to touch it once to be true believers, and were not hurt at all-- not even a yelp. It's also too high for kids to touch, not that we have kids roaming the fast country highway steps from our dog yard. :~) ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 09 - 11:00 AM Well, before ordering the "deer fence" that we are in the process of installing around roughly 2 acres of woods and gardens, we asked alot of folks about their experiences with various methods that are used in this rural county... Some said that the slectric fence worked for them and others said it didn't... Seems that just about everyone had an opinion on electric fence and it was right about 50/50... 4 years ago I put up deer fence around anout a 1/4 acre where our vegetable garden is and it wasn't even the heavy duty and it has been 100% effective... So, given that either way was going to mean one heck of alot of labor I made the choice to go with what I know works... BTW, the worst part about the job is felling the dead trees in the woods... Now is the time to do it rather than after the fence is up... I also am putting in a gate large enough to get my Kabuto tractor inside and have slowly used the poor thing to crave out about a 1/5 mile of roads inside the fenced area... We will continue to use Liquid Fence on the gardens around the house... We experiemented with a couple other products that were sent to the plant center where my wife works but they are not as effective as Liquid Fence... They are "Tree Guard" and "1 For All" in case folks are considering them over Liquid Fence... But with any luck with the weather, a week from now the deer fence will be in place!!! Hooray!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: gnu Date: 20 Jun 09 - 12:52 PM Arrrggghhhh... I can't remember the name of the stuff Cindy Day said works on CTV's Live At Five from Halifax... and I can't find an email addy to ask her. Anyone? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: gnu Date: 20 Jun 09 - 01:36 PM GAILLARDIA??? Hmmmm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Bobert Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:28 AM Just an update on our Benner Deer Fence... We're going on one year without one single deer breaching it so I am now a "true believer" and the P-Vine and I have decided to become "distributors" for the company so if anyone out there is in need, please let me know... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Defeating Deer in the Garden From: Greg F. Date: 28 Jun 10 - 08:48 AM Have tried all of the above suggestions over the last 40 years & found only two that actually work: 1. .30-06 2. 8 foot plus fence. Good luck. |
