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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:09 AM Amen, Woody... All these things are things I have pointed to in my various arguments and all of these things happened under the Bush administration... The funding cuts, the being taken out of the DHS loop so to speak and the lack of a cohesive plan... Throw in both Bush and Chertoff's loust reaction times and waalaa: Katrinagate... This is scandelous at the very least and should the Dems win back the House of Reps., you can bet that hearuings will reveal that what is out now is just the tip of the iceburg... But great post, Woody, and thanks... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:58 AM Why did they happin durin the Bush Administration? Who wanted it ta happen? "FEMA became part of DHS" Who What Why Where and When? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:04 AM Relevance, por favor... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:29 AM Where does all the info regarding lack of funding come from? The information I have is for my State ( I am involved im the preparedness stuff) and also talk with with other states. The reaction after 9/11 was fantastic with regard to funding - every Township Fire Department received, among other items, full body protection suits with respirators capable of resisting any gas or chemical known to man. Recently the amount of funding for disaster work has been increased even for Northern states. And, according to my budget figures, EVERY year has seen an increase in funding, regardless of events. I am curious. Or, have I fallen for a hoax? New to this Forum and don't know how much 'leg pulling' goes on here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 20 Jun 06 - 08:51 PM How many times you done mentioned DHS and FEMA? O'Bobert syle questionare: _____ I don know. _____ I don care. _____ I am too lazy ta answer. _____ I refuse ta answer on the grounds that it might stand ta incriminates me. Director: Ya can fergit trying to get ansers from O'Bobert. He jest dances an sidesteps em. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:06 PM Well, director, if you aren't really GUEST, GUEST A, GUEST Woody 'er GUEST< rufus who may all be the same person, are you aware that per capita federal moneies favor smaller towns and rural areas over the large population centers??? So if yer in a small town, you probably made out quite well... I mean, check out what Wyoming got!!! It's humongous!!! But then again, it votes Republican... But never mind all that political stuff... Hey, one thing that was found during the 9/11 attacks was that first responders were unable to communicate with one another... Right??? The 9/11 CDomission said that in it's report... Now we go back to George Bush as the CEO of this company whoes job it is to make us all safer and guess what??? He and the DHS didn't address the problem of communications... This is just one example of his administartion's failings.... But don't believe me... Believe Senator John McCain and fellow Republican Senator Curt Weldon from Pennsylvavnia... After Katrina they wrote: "The federal government needs to develop a comprhensive, interopable emergeny communications plan and set equipement standards, fund the purchase of emergeny and interoperable communications equipment, and provide additional radio spectrum that will allow first responders to communicate over long distances using the same radio freguencies and equipement." They went on to say, "We can only imagine how an improved communications systems could have aided rescue workers in their efforts to respond to the needs of citizens after Hurrican Katrina." So here we are yet again when Bush has [pumped out his chest] and told the American people that it's his job to protect them and the 9/11 Commission provided him with a bypartisan roadmap in how to do that and yet Republican Seantors John McCain and Curt Weldon write after Katrina that, in essence, the Bush administration hadn't fixed this major problem??? This is all about first resopnse and Katrina showed that Bush and his folks were just praying that something like 9/11 or Katrina wouldn't come along and expose just how little they had done in the way of the heavy lifting and funding the things that the 9/1q1 Comission itself had told them were needed to be organized anf funded in order to "protect the American people"... And, guess what??? If, GUEST, director, you don't want to know more and more about the failings of the Bush folks in regards to Katrina, then vote Republican this November 'cvause if the Dems take the House, yer going to learn alot more stuff that perhaps, if you are Bush supporter, you'd rather have been left under the carpet... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:28 PM Wow, very difficult to decipher. First point, Wyoming is not a "smaller town or a rural area". One error for you and more to come. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:46 PM You are wrong as wrong can be, GUEST... It is both "ruarl" and has "small towns"... Goeography 001 (Non credit, remedial, for students who think that the world is flat and California is an eastern city outside of Chicago, Indiana...) That's 'bout as eat up dumbass as you've been lately, GUEST... Nice work... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:49 PM I also meant to say that there are two guidelines for funding - population and land mass. Wyoming is the 9th largest State. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 20 Jun 06 - 09:57 PM Again, Wyoming is a State and has been since 1890. I am the one who suggested to you that Wyoming is a State. You were discussing "small towns". And then said "check out Wyoming got". You don't appear to be too lucid at this point in time. Possibly we could continue this 'discussion' tomorrow? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 20 Jun 06 - 10:40 PM LOL, GUEST = GUEST, Director = GUEST A = GUEST, Whoever... So ya' figurate that the terrorists are gonna hit Wyoming becuase it's big???? Is that yer final answer??? Yes ________ No ___________ LOL, GUEST... You are entertainin', that much is fir sure... (No, BObert, the terrorists are going to hit Wyoming because Osoma had a dream about the number 1890...) Oh, sheeeeitttt... Not Wyoming, Osama... Please don't run a plane into Wyoming... Hey, you'd prollay kill half a dozen folks!!!! LOL... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,D Date: 21 Jun 06 - 07:55 AM Well, so much for the concept of lucidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:50 AM Yeah, GUEST,D who is realy GUEST, A, GUEST, GUEST, Rufus, GUEST, etc, etc.etc... You folks ain't addin' nuthin' new to the discussion 'cept insignificant little distractive sidebars and tangents... Why didn't you respond to what Senators McCain and Weldon had to say about the poor organization and funding by the Bush administartion for 21st century communication sytems and equipement??? Do you realize that when stuff hits like Katrina or 9/11 that the folks at home watching their TV's know more abnout the bigh picture than those first reponders who in the trenches doing the heavy lifting??? Now I can understand how this could have occured on 9/11 but Katrina??? Inexcusable... Shameful... Lucid 'nuff fir ya??? Or would you just like to continue discussing why Wyoming deserves more per capita $$$ from Bush thru the DHS than does New York City??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 21 Jun 06 - 09:13 AM Ain't nobody here Rufus but Rufus an I am waiting fer O'Bobert to anser wif that background on DHS an FEMA. However he caint anser that wifout makin hisself look stupid so he keeps avoidin the answer. He floats like a butterfly wif his chest pumped out an stings like a stingy bee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 08:03 PM No, not really, Rufe... Like I'ver said over and over I'll be more than happy to respond to yer qwuestion when you have shown it has relevance to this thread... You seem to delight in tryin' to highjack this thread whith stuff that has no relevance... You beat poor ol' P-Gator into the New Orleans mud before you barely explained why he was relevant and then, an only then did I respond to the tangent... Like I say, you explain the relevance of yer question with yer next post and you'll get an answer.... It's you who is playin' the games here, pal, not me... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Director Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:02 PM "Where does all the info regarding lack of funding come from?" I do believe that was my first comment in entering this discussion. And, after reviewing this thread, It would appear that Mr. Bobert should be the one to answer. Care to illuminate us? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 21 Jun 06 - 10:42 PM Try Republican John McCain and Republican Curt Weldon, fir starters... And fir the record, director, we all know who you are... Hey, folks 'round here ight have been born at night but not last night... GUEST, director = GUEST, Rufus = GUEST, A... That much is fir sure... How many other GUESTs don't matter much... The 3 of you is all the same person... And, hark, still no answer to O'Bobert's question as to relevance... And the beat goes on, and on, and on and GUEST still ain't gotta clue... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ........ Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 22 Jun 06 - 12:36 AM I done answered yore question severl times but you act like I ain;t so yaa don't have ta answer. O'Bobert: "No disrespect meant, it just seems that you ahve become very obsessed with details and missing the big piccure" What big piccure are ya talkin about O'Bobert?? Are ya just gonna give us that fine details ya are obsessed with? 567 posts on this here thread an O'Bobert still can't or won't tell us how FEMA got ta be part of DHS an why. Either he don't know or he 'fuses cause it will make him look stupid. Cmon Mr expert, Mr. researcher show us your inteligence cause yore silence demontraits tha lack thereof. "The 3 of you is all the same person" nuther WRONG pissant excuse fer not answerin a 100% on topic question. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:30 AM LOL, Rufe... And, no, you ***haven't*** answered the question of relevance even one time... By reasking the question over and over and then saying that you've answered why this is important is yer little game, but not an answer... Are you afraid to make an argument of yer own??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Rufus Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:43 AM O'Bobert: "This i8s the way the Bush asdminisration itself reorganized DHS and FEMA..." It's is relevant when ya want's it ta be but it ain't relative when ya dont want ta answer. 569 posts and O'Bobert still caint demonstrait the smarts he claims ta have. He don't want to admit that other people demanded tha creation of HDS and then thay demanded that FEMA be stuck inta DHS. This might put tha blame for tha disorganation of FEMA on sombody other than O'Boberts emnemy that he likes ta dump on ever chance he gits. O'Bobert is "very obsessed with details and missing the big piccure" I'll be goin away fer a week but I'll be back an waitin for O'Bobert ta persent tha big piccure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:07 AM http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/sociss/release.cfm?ArticleID=1127 Professor R. Scott Fosler: "It took a lot to build FEMA into an effective disaster planning and response agency ten years ago and grand bureaucratic shifts won't be sufficient to fix what's wrong now. It should never have been put in a Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in the first place. But now it is not so easy just to yank it out of DHS. You have to first ask whether it will have the legs to stand on its own, what role it will play in addressing terrorism and how it will relate to a significant new factor: the Department of Homeland Security itself. We can't simply go back to square one, because things have changed. We must stop the senseless bureaucratic box-shuffling, the organizational 'amputation before diagnosis.' Let's first think through where we are now, and how we can best move forward from that position." |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:14 PM Well, gol danged, Rufe... Thank you for ***finally answering*** my question but, my friend... ...what difference does it make??? Hey, if I'm hired on as a CEO of a corporation that widgets and the board of directors tells me that they also want to get into making framastats then, hey, that's life... I took the job... Congress doesn't pour over budget requests, the executive does... And the exectutive presents a budget to Congress for approval... It is the executive branch of or goevernment who sets the priorities and in doing so gives some agenmcies greater power than others... Bush and his folks presented the DHS budget to Congress... And within this budget was money for FEMA... Congress didn't tell Bush how much they wanted him to spend for DHS or FEMA... No, Bush told Congress what he wanted to spend and guess what, Rufe??? Give up??? Well, Bush choze to gut FEMA and sent a budget to Congress which, in essence, gutted FEMA and Congress approved it... This was Bush's decision... Now if you see things differently, Rufe, please let me know and we can discuss our differences but, please, please, please, no more guessing games... Now, related to the guttin' of FEMA things just haven't been flowin' to smoothly in terms of Katrina victims getting assistance... Just yesterday a Lousinana U.S. Judge, Stanwood Duval, Jr., while ruling that FEMA hadn't broken any laws in how it provides data related to the rerquirements for attaining assistance said (overta dictum???): "Rather than hiding behind bureautic double-talk, obscure regulations, outdated computer programs, anmd politically loaded platitudes such as 'people need to take care of themselves' as the fave of the federal government in the aftermath of Katrina, FEMA's goal should have been to foster an environment of openness and honesty with all Americans affected by the disaster. Sharing information in simple, clear, and precise terms and delineating the terms and conditions of available assistance in an up-front and forthright manner, does just that." While back in Washington, D.C. the House Homeland Security Committee heard testimony from both Mayors Anthony Williams (D- Wahington, D.C.) and Michael Bloomberg (R-New York City) who were each critical of the Bush funding formulas for counterterrorism, including first responders, that the Bush administartion has put forward... Just a few quotes form the various Republican House commttee members: Didn't pass "the common-sense test"... Rep Rob Simmons (R-Conn.) "It was indefensible, it was disgraceful, and to me it raises very, very real questions about the competency of this department in determining how its going to protect America."... Peter King (R-N.Y.) "How could a rational process produce such a dysfunctional conclusion?"... (R-Mayor Bloombery, N.Y. City) "Something wrong with the formula"... (R- Jim Gibbons, Nev.) Yeah, Rufe... Seems as if you are about the only person, other that Bush and his tiny circle of advisors who don't think we're living thru one of the great scandals of complete ineptitudnees of all time... And with the hrrican season in force, we're no better off than the day Katrina hit... Yet yer boy has never once aplogized for boasting that it was his job to protect the American people (see Representaive King's remarks above) when he hadn't asked for the funding that would have that... But forget the apology... We know Bush don't do that kinda stuff... But he continues to make decisions that don't "protect the American people"... These are the facts my friend... You may just be the kind pwerson who likes to go down fightin' but now even the Repub are coming to see what I have been arguing' for a long time now... Hmmmmmmmmm? O'Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:29 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Blanco .... Hurricane Katrina Governor Blanco is still grappling with the massive damage to the State of Louisiana in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina which struck Louisiana on August 29, 2005. Her response to the catastrophe has resulted in Time Magazine's labeling her a "failure"[1] in a section called "The Worst Governors in America." [2] Extensive and severe damage was caused by the Hurricane across the Gulf Coast region of the southeastern United States, including Louisiana's largest city, New Orleans, on August 29, 2005. Actions in advance of Katrina On August 27, 2005, Governor Blanco speaking on Hurricane Katrina told the media in Jefferson Parish "I believe we are prepared. That's the one thing that I've always been able to brag about."[3] Later that day she issued a request for federal assistance and US$9 million in aid to President George W. Bush, which stated, "...I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal." Also in the requesting letter, the governor stated: "In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan."[4][5] [6] FEMA, issued a statement dated August 27, that President Bush authorized the allocation of federal resources, "following a review of FEMA's analysis of the state's request for federal assistance." [7] A White House statement of the same date also acknowledges this authorization of aid by President Bush. [8] On August 28, Governor Blanco sent a letter to President Bush, which increased the amount of aid requested to US$130 million. [9] Time magazine has reported that on August 29, the day that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, Governor Blanco could reach neither Bush or his chief of staff and had to leave a message pleading for help with a low-level adviser. [10] On Aug. 28 Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff failed to reach Blanco by telephone. A 12:30 p.m. e-mail to aides from a Homeland Security official stated "Your assistance would be much appreciated,". Deputy Press Secretary Roderick Hawkins wrote in an e-mail at 1:59 p.m. to his boss, Denise Bottcher, "I think she's asleep now." At approximately 2:15 p.m. Hawkins e-mailed the official stating that "Governor Blanco is unavailable at the present time. . . . You may reach her at approximately 3 p.m." Later that day Chertoff and Blanco did talk via telephone. [11] Actions following Katrina On September 1, 2005, Governor Blanco authorized National Guard troops to "shoot and kill" rioters and looters, [12] which followed President Bush's statement that looters in New Orleans and elsewhere in the chaotic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina should be treated with "zero tolerance" [13]. The attitude to looters, and the perception that police and national guard resources were diverted to deal with looters, were sources of controversy and criticism. Governor Blanco was also criticized for allegedly having only a minor subset of her available National Guard troops standing by on ready, and for not being able to provide relief supplies and standby medical or other first responder personnel to New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin for the victims of the hurricane. A Newsday article by Jim Pinkerton, for example, claims "The Louisiana Guard has about 11,000 members, of whom 3,000 are in Iraq. And yet, of the remaining 8,000 in the Pelican State, fewer than half were on duty the day Katrina struck." [14] Louisiana did indeed have only 3,500 ready out of 6,500 national guards available according to a different article in the Chicago Tribune; in comparison, the much harder-hit state of Mississippi had 850 guards on duty, and Alabama had 350 as of August 30. [15] In addition, Governor Blanco had accepted an offer of National Guard reinforcements from New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Although this agreement was made on August 28, the day before Katrina struck, the paperwork required to deploy troops did not arrive from the federal government until September 1. The specific cause of the delay is unclear. [16] An article in the Washington Post cites three state and federal officials as stating collectively that "Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until August 31." It also quotes one as saying erroneously that as of September 3, Governor Blanco had not declared a state of emergency in Louisiana. [17] Controversy has continued to circle the issue of the National Guard. According to an article in Newsweek [18], President Bush and Governor Blanco met on Air Force One on Friday, September 2, 2005 while it sat on the tarmac at the New Orleans airport. Echoing requests submitted by President Bush to Governor Blanco in a memo prior to the meeting, Mayor Nagin suggested federalizing the National Guard to improve the command structure. According to both Sen. David Vitter, a Republican ally of Bush's, and Mayor Ray Nagin, the Democrat Mayor of New Orleans, Bush turned to Governor Blanco and said, "Well, what do you think of that, Governor?" Blanco told Bush, "I'd rather talk to you about that privately." To which Nagin responded, "Well, why don't you do that now?". Immediately following that private meeting, according to a September 7, 2005 Washington Times article [19], Mayor Nagin said that "He (Bush) called [Nagin] in that office, and he said, 'Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor.' I was ready to move. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision." Governor Blanco subsequently rejected the proposal. President Bush continued to press the offer so Governor Blanco rejected it in writing on September 6, citing the need for flexibility in National Guard operations, particularly the need for Guard in areas other than New Orleans where the military is not currently operating.[20] Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi reportedly declined a similar offer from the President. It has not previously been a policy during natural disasters to combine the command of National Guard and military operations under the authority of the President.[21] President Bush has the power to take command of National Guard brigades under the Insurrection Act without the agreement of a state Governor, but no President has done this since Lyndon Johnson in the 1960s and President Bush has so far also declined to do so. However, Governor Blanco and Major General Bennett Landreneau, commanding Louisiana's National Guard, have co-operated closely with Lieutenant General Russel Honore, commanding military operations under Joint Task Force Katrina.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:41 PM http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/cron.html ....Saturday, August 27 "The Storm is Headed Right for You" Katrina becomes a Category 3 with 115 mph maximum sustained winds. By the end of the day it is 335 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi River. The expected storm surge is 15 to 20 feet, locally as high as 25 feet. FEMA Situation Update: "Coastal residents jammed freeways and gas stations as they rushed to get out A direct hit could wind up submerging New Orleans in several feet of water At least 100,000 people in the city lack transportation to get out ... Louisiana and Mississippi make all lanes northbound on interstate highways..." National Hurricane Center director Max Mayfield tells the Times-Picayune newspaper, "This is scary this is the real thing." A Louisiana State University computer model of a 115 mph storm strike shows the overtopping of levees protecting New Orleans and nearby areas. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says he'll follow the state evacuation plan and will not call for mandatory evacuation until 30 hours before projected landfall. He also announces that the Superdome will be "a shelter of last resort for evacuees with special needs." Some parishes order mandatory evacuations. Ray Nagin, mayor of New Orleans: "I got a call, I think Saturday afternoon [from] Max Mayfield, the hurricane director. And he said definitively, "Mr. Mayor, the storm is headed right for you. I've never seen a hurricane like this in my 33-year career. And you need to order mandatory evacuation. Get as many people out as possible." At that time, I thought we had done a pretty good job because we had gotten about 80 percent of the people out. I immediately hung up the phone, called my city attorney because they had always advised that you can't do a mandatory evacuation. And I said, "We're doing one in the morning." Kathleen Blanco, governor of Louisiana: She requests President Bush to declare a state of emergency in Louisiana. "I went into New Orleans ... and stood beside Mayor Nagin and emphasized the need to leave. I gave people clues on how to pack. And we said, "Plan your route carefully. Pack carefully. Pack as though you're going on a camping trip. Bring enough to sustain yourself, your family, your children. " Michael Brown, FEMA director: "I at least wanted a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans and the surrounding parishes [on Saturday]. We've all feared a catastrophic hurricane striking New Orleans. That is why the first place we picked to do an exercise and planning was New Orleans. And based upon that ["Hurricane Pam" planning exercise], I knew they needed to evacuate. ".... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:47 PM Problem with yer cut'n paste, Woody, is that Blanco has release over 100,000 documents to show what she was doing during Katrina and Bush is caliming Executive Privilecdge in not turning over his side of the story... Hmmmmmmmm??? Like what's got to hide??? Nevermind, I'll answer that fir ya.... ...lots and you had better vote Repub 'cause if you vote Dem and the Derms take back either house of Congress, yer gonna find out that what I've been able to get against the boy wil pale in comparision to what the Congressional comittee, with supena powers, will get... Vote Repub for silence!!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/storm/etc/cron.html .....Wednesday, August 31 "We Should Have Asked Sooner" Gov. Blanco announces New Orleans must be evacuated because of the still- rising water and uninhabitable conditions. Mayor Nagin estimates 50,000 to 100,000 people remain in the city. Rescue efforts are delayed because of the inability of rescuers to communicate with each other. Virtually all communication systems are out. City officials say 80 percent of New Orleans is flooded. FEMA organizes 475 buses to be sent in to transport many of the estimated 23,000 people from the Superdome to the Houston Astrodome. Newly rescued people are still being brought to the Superdome. Widespread looting continues. Evacuating hospitals is a top priority: Patients and staff are stranded and supplies and power are dwindling. By midday, water levels between the city and Lake Ponchartrain have equalized. The Army Corps of Engineers renews work to fix the breach in the 17th St. Canal. President Bush flies over the area on his way back to Washington. He announces FEMA is moving supplies and equipment into the hardest hit areas. Gov. Kathleen Blanco: "All I know is on Wednesday night I was convinced that there were no FEMA buses. I began to believe that no buses had been ordered. We were moving school buses in. But they're designed for short hauls." Walter Maestri, Jefferson Parish emergency manager: "What we did -- under Louisiana law the parish presidents, the head of the counties, have the authority to use private resources. In all honesty, we begin looting. We go to Sam's and Wal-Mart and Winn-Dixie and gather up food and water and start distributing it because we had 60 hours' worth of resources that we had stored, but now we're out of it. When we didn't get any assistance from the state or from FEMA in the time period that we thought was appropriate, I got someone in an automobile and said, 'Go to Baton Rouge, go find out. I've got to know. Go up there, face to face and say, "What is happening here? Where is water? Where is food? Where is all the things that we need to get out of here?"' And he passes, literally, hundreds of school buses lined up to come and get these folks. But the problem was that because of the fear that resulted from the civil unrest, the bus drivers said, 'We're not going in there to pick these people up unless you put a law enforcement official on every one of the buses, because we're afraid.'" Michael Brown, FEMA director: "As I have said, I think that one of the biggest mistakes that I made as the FEMA director during Katrina was not immediately turning to the military and saying: 'We have been overwhelmed. We need you to take over logistics, distribution of commodities, etc.' We immediately did turn to the military and mission-assigned them to start doing airlifts, start bringing things in. The mistake that I made was not doing that sooner and not giving them the orders that we needed them to do all of that immediately. Governor Blanco probably should have asked sooner. I probably should have asked sooner. I think we both should have asked sooner."... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 22 Jun 06 - 10:59 PM Woody: Why do you expect people to read your long cut and pastes? You think they're somp'n special? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:07 PM Well, Amos, Ihave figurated thw Woody part of it... Sawdust fri brains... Ain't got nuthin' of his own to post... Heck, last week he actually accidently cut 'n posted some stuff that argued against Bush... But, hey, I thanked him fir it anyway... Other than that, no original thoughts or posts as far as I can see... Bobert BTW, I still have never posted a cut 'n paste... All my stuff I come by the ol' fashion way: hard work... Hmmmm? Maybe this explains why these GUESTs can't keep up... No brag, just fact... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:29 PM http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4846565 Morning Edition, September 14, 2005 · Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), the ranking Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee, talks about Congress' responsibility for what went wrong in the initial Katrina response. Lieberman was one the main architects of the Department Homeland Security, which transformed FEMA from an independent agency to part of a large bureaucracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 22 Jun 06 - 11:39 PM Who submits the budget, Woody??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST,Woody Date: 23 Jun 06 - 12:56 AM http://www.bronnergroup.com/news/fema.htm To help get the job done, the administration is asking Congress to more than double the agency's funding for fiscal 2003 to $6.6 billion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 06 - 10:24 AM Woody, Woody, Woody... I'm real disappointed in you, pal... Like Paul Harvey used to say, "Now for the rest of the story..." What happened to that $6.6B? Ya' give up? Well, Bush used it as a slush fund to fund the Department of Homeland Security and his war in Iraq!!! That's were the dough went!!! And FEMA wasn't the only agency that was raided... Bush also moved funds out of the Army Corps of Engineers at a time when the levee system in New Orleans needed a minimum of $100M to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. But rather than have the $100M neeeded and requested by the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA, only 20% was funded in fiscal year 2003 and even less, 17% in 2004??? Meanwhile back at FEMA, the lootin' was out-of-control for DHS and the Iraq War leavin' FEMA without the staff or resources it needed to perform at 90's capabilities... "Eric Tolbert, a former top disaster response official in the Busdh administration, knew calamity like Hurrican Katrina would be coming sooner or later. And he also knew that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, where he worked until February, was not ready to properly respond. There were too few employees, not enough contracts in place to provide assistance, and a lack of money to do proper pre-palnning. The added burden of the war on terror, he says, diverted funds away from FEMA's core mission." "FEMA had to compete and had to help finace the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. They were taking chunks of money out of the budget. We always referred to it as taxes." (Source: "Anatomy of an unnatural disaster", by Michael Scherer, Solon) And that, my fiends, is the rest of the story... A gutted FEMA... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:16 PM Hmmmmmmmmmm? Things got real quiet 'round here... Maybe the various GUESTs have seen now what I saw a long time ago??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 06 - 10:52 PM bobert, I think the "Guests" can see what you can't or won't and have decided to pour no more water down this rathole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 25 Jun 06 - 11:02 PM LOL, GUEST, an' thank you for yer unconditional surrender... Long overdue... Yeah, you like to think of it as a rathole and in a sense it is thinkin' of the money that has gone into whetever while the Ameerican people have never been ********less********* protected in my lifetime... Enjoy yer tax cuts, GUEST, and yer corrupt government... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:26 PM No surrender, but I did not expect you to understand. And yes, I am enjoying my tax cuts. By the way, the premise was - at the bottom of the rathole we will find bobert, ignoring everything he doesn't want to understand or can't discern. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 26 Jun 06 - 01:52 PM Guest, your surrender is duly documented; it began when you elected to make ad hominem slurs unsupported by rational statements, under the cheap cover of anonymity, rather then being willing to state facts in support of your views, or even state your views clearly. This silly ad hominem slapping fight with Bobert looks about your speed, but it indicates that you have surrendered something far more improtant in the form of your own integrity. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:09 PM Amos, my good man (well, benefit of the the doubt since you are as anonymous to me as I to you) I surrender nothing and as far as not using supporting data, bobert would only believe what he choses to in his tiny Socialist leaning mind. Unlike him, I am cognizant of my understanding of the Katrina situation. Let it be known that not all of the Guest comments here are mine but I agree with many. My integrity is fine with me and my friends and that is what counts. Jousting on a forum such as this one should not provoke that question, well, unless one's life is predominately focused here. And speaking of integrity, one could be moved to reflect on yours as you strive to defend a person known for his insults, buffonery, bluffing and always striving to put down another who just might have a clue as to what they were talking about. Amos, why not relax and just take this forum with a grain of salt, eh? Hopefully it is not such an integral part of your life as you are appearing to make it out to be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 26 Jun 06 - 03:31 PM So, GUEST, are you suggestin' that "you just mighty have a clue as to what they were talking about"? Great, so... ... exactly which post of yours offered any rebuttal to my original position??? Yeah, I'm lookin' forward to rereading it to see just what constitutes in yer mind your understanding of either my arguments or your "understanding of the Katrina situation"... And sure, you think this is a put-down and, yeah, I guess it is... You choze a lousy side to defend... Bobert (and his "tiny Socialist leaning mind"...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:32 PM Californians know that a devastating earthquake could occur anywhere in the state at any time. And we also know that a major earthquake would cause hundreds or thousands of deaths, widespread homelessness, and massive property damage. Although Californians are aware of these important facts, somehow the Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) still do not seem to have gotten the message. Last September, I requested a copy of the FEMA disaster recovery plan for California. After several months, I was disappointed to receive a general reply outlining the things that might happen following a generic disaster. Recently, following a new report from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography on the geologic stress that is present especially along the southern portions of the San Andreas Fault -- and the likelihood that a major earthquake is, in fact, overdue -- I again asked for a detailed plan for actions that would follow an earthquake. In a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, I have again requested a plan specific to California on the steps that would be taken in the immediate aftermath of an earthquake to respond to widespread destruction. Sadly, it appears that little has changed at FEMA in the year following Hurricane Katrina. The agency appears to be woefully unprepared for an earthquake of major magnitude and the devastation that would follow in California. You can count on me to continue to demand a substantive plan that is designed to keep Californians safe in the days following an earthquake. Sincerely, Barbara Boxer United States Senator From a broadcast email from Sen. Boxer. Surprised? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:28 PM Normal under the war adminstrattion... No time or dough for Americans... |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 05 Jul 06 - 12:23 PM Relevance por favor? |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Amos Date: 05 Jul 06 - 01:03 PM It is relevant in establishing the on-going mindset of the administration in despite of the lessons one would presume that right-thinking and reaosnably intelligent managers might have learned from katrina. If that simple extension is not obvious, I suggest a remedial course in the peculiarities of human reasoning. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 05 Jul 06 - 03:41 PM You and Bobert refuse to answer any questions that might upset your little apple cart by screaming "guests are chicken". "Bush supporter" and "not relevant" but when somebody posts anything anti Bush, relevant or not, guest or not, it's Amen brother, Huzzah and right on. Where is the action, not just words, from the political party that wanted to create DHS and who wanted FEMA to be part of DHS?? Libs are very good at jawboning, criticizing and Monday morning quarterbacking but not at taking action. HMMMMM don't see anything in Bobert's opening post that he keeps holding everybody but his liberal cartel to about Boxer, earthquakes, California or mindset. It seems Bobert's pumped out chest thrust here is that Bush appointed Brown as a set up to blame Katrina on: Well, well, well... "Yer doin' a good job, Brownie" Well, in this case he might have or might not have but one thing fir sure is that Bush and Homeland Security Director, Micheal Chertoff weren't up to the task... Ahhhh, how many Bush apologists have ever heard of the "National Response Plan"??? (Hmmmmmm, Bobert, none holdin' up their hands...) Well, it was unvieled last January by the DoHS and it "was supposed to be a blueprint in this post-September 11 world for how we were going to deal with a massive catastrophe. While certainly terrorism was an emphasis behind this document, it very clearly says this is to be used when you have a major catastrophic natural disaster, such as a hurricane." (Alison Young, Knight Ritter reporter). "It very clearly says that in a catastrope, where you either anticipate or it has allready happened that locals have become overwhelmed by the situation, both in terms of resources and the structure, that the federal governemnt is supposed to take (a) proactive steps to protect the lives of citizens." (Alison Young, Knight Ritter reporter) "Ultimately, this plan designates the Secretary of Homeland Defense as the person who is supposed to be the principal federasl official in charge when disater strikes" (Ibid) So here's the way it was upposed to work, folks... Top down and not vice versa... Brownie wasn't the one callin' the shots here... So we fast forward to the Congressional hearing with Michael Brown... Rep. Christopher Shays: "Now, with the non-evacuation, when you knew that niether the governor or mayor were going to do their job, did you call- and I would like to bring the President in. When did you contact ther President to say we have a catastrophe happening with an incompetent mayor and incompetent governor not responding to this. When did you contact the President to let him know this extraordinary crisis that would impact our country?" Michael Brown: "I talked to the White House on both Saturday and Sunday. And throughout the disaster." Sheys: "So the first conversation was Saturday?" Brown: "I think the first conversation was Saturday, yes. It may have been Friday, but I have to go back and check my records." Shays: "Why not sooner? I mean, you had indications that this was- I mean, we knew on Friday that it was going to hit New Orleans, and we knew by Friday that it was going to be basiclly as category four ot five. You had a pretty good sense that the mayor and the governor were not interacting with each other. And you basically had- even then, you wanted them to evacuate, right, on Friday?" Brown: "Yes, that's the plan, correct." Shays: "Yeah, okay. Amd they didn't implement it. So did you ask for, quote unquote, a "higher authority" to help you out so you could help save lives?" Brown: "I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?" Shays: "Did you ask for a higher authroity to help you out? You're the head of FEMA, but the governor and mayor aren't paying attention to you. I want to know who you asked for help." Brown: "On Saturday and Sunday, I started talking to the White House." Shays: "To who?" Brown; "On Saturday and Sunday, I started talking to the White House." Shays: "The White House is a big place. So give us specifics. I'm not asking about conversations yet, I want to know who you contacted." Brown: I exchanged emails and phones calls with Joe Hagin, Andy Card and the President." BINGO, folks!!!! So here is my question. Given that a FEMA reaction is top-down triggered then if Bush knew of what was going down, as Brown has said he did, then shouldn't the orders dome from the top, seein' as Bush's own National Response Plan outlined??? Hey, Brownie did his job... Bush didn't, since he knew that a category for or five hurricane was about to hit New Orleans, had been told by Brownie that the local authorities were not up to handling the situation... Bush should have told Certoff to get the ball rolling... Hey, it wasn't like some other administyartion had writtne the National Response Plan... It was the Bush administarion and when it was time for it to be implimented, drunk frat boy was yet again... AWOL... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 06 - 10:09 PM Well, a deeply felt tahnks fir reposting some of the stuff I have posted in the past... Saves me the aggrivation... You make it sound as if I or anyone other than the Bush folks have any real say in what goes in regardd to Katrina or much of anything that goes on America??? Where on Earth did you get that idea??? Your party and yer president have the microphone and all the control levers... Not the Dems... Not me... I mean, lets get real here for one minute... Look at the very screwed up Mediciad drug perscription plan... The Dems were locked out of conferences where the plan was written secretly by the Repubs and lobbiests, handed an 1800 page bill and given less than 24 hours to familiarize themselves with it in order to vote... Get it yet, GUEST???... What we've seen since 9/11 is one part ****rule****... We ahven't had "govern" ment but, ahhhh, friggin' ****rulerment****... And, yeah, yer guys have messed up their ruling purdy danged bad... Brownie was right... Hey, he was given an agency that was once very effective that had been stripped by yer guys, all the while they were going around the universe tellin' folks they had everything covered and then Katrina!!!.... Their worst nightmare because it exposed the *****fact***** that Bush and the boyz were lieing thru their teeth... Yeah, thems is the facts and here we are zeroin' on, what, 600 posts and id don't mean nuthin' if FEMA was under DHS or Mickey Friggin Mouse, it was underfunded, under staffed and was just a sheel of its old self when Bush was saying he had every thing covered... You wanta defend the lies, GUEST, have at it... That's the beauty of being a GUEST... You can argue the stupidist positions... So have at it...It's entertaining... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:33 AM Get it yet Bobert? Pump out your chest and tell us: Where is the action, not just words, from the political party that wanted to create DHS and who wanted FEMA to be part of DHS?? You won't answer that because it casts some of the blame on someone other than GWB which is your agenda. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM By the way what the hell does Mediciad have to do with your topic? Another example of your veering off the topic when you want to but to avoid answering questions you say "Relevance por favor?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: GUEST Date: 06 Jul 06 - 12:01 PM bobert, the Medicaid plan was hatched that way cause the Dems have fucked up every entitlement they have been involved in. The new Prescription plan has been overwhelming successful. However, this will be my last response to any of your stuff. I will give you one thing - you have to be one of the best 'put on artists' in the world. The problem is that a 'put on artist' can sometimes escape the bounds of reality. Good luck finding your way back but I bet the trail has grown over too much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Leadfingers Date: 06 Jul 06 - 12:54 PM Ted says that 99 is the new 100 so here's 499 !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: KatrinaGate... From: Leadfingers Date: 06 Jul 06 - 12:55 PM OOOPS Should have been 599 So heres 600 just for the Hell of it |
