The re-Imagined Village

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:13 AM

Global warming or no, SJ, trying to grow bananas in England, or anywhere else in these isles, remains you know what; and this is where fair-trade kicks in.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:23 AM

The Weirdstone of Brisingamen...as many of the locations in the book exist and are visitable.

Surely that should be all locations?

Lindow Common and Black Lake, Shutlingsloe, Shining Tor, Windgather Rocks etc. All visitable

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:58 AM

excellent book is as good a read for adults as it is for kids, and a whole heap better than Harry Potter

Maybe this topic is deserving of another thread? Oddly enough, and quite in spite of myself, I fell for the Harry Potter books after going to see the first film which overcame my usual cynicism on such things, nicely tying in with the season too. I despair when the films come out in summer as it misses the whole new term-time autumn-into-winter thing that is such a feature of the English year, academic or otherwise. That said, I'm only too aware there are far better books / films / TV adaptations / series than Harry Potter, which failed to deliver anything worthy by way of a conclusion - not for me anyway. If only real-life could be so black & white!

My wife is a huge fan of Diana Wynne Jones, whose Fire and Hemlock (based around Tam Lin and True Thomas) is one of the most effective books on the supernatural I've ever read. I don't think DWJ's been troubled too much by the film industry; there was a TV adaptation of Archer's Goon, which I didn't see, and the brilliant Howl's Moving Castle was made into an equally brilliant feature length anime by Studio Ghibli back in 2004. Definitely a must-see - especially in original Japanese with English subtitles!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:05 AM

"so your discription as Norman-German is somewhat narrow."

Whatever. He should stick to what he's good at, which is keeping a thousand-year-old feudal system in place. Oh, and sticking his royal nose in where it's not wanted (by phoning fellow over-privileged inbreds like the Qatari Royal Family to get his way when opposing visionary architectural schemes like the Chelsea Barracks development, mainly because everyone here was ignoring him).

"Surely that should be all locations?"

Well, although I have frequently visited many on the locations in the book (especially on the Peak District side where I live) I can't say I have sought out every single to see if there's access.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:08 AM

By the way SO'P, the link to Catweazle was brilliant - thanks.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:12 AM

Well if nobody else had the guts to stand up & tell that architect that his design was not only completly at odds with the existing buildings but a load of crap [like most of his other buildings.. have you seen his Lloyds building?}good on Prince Charles. There's too many in the'arts' establishment who believe that they know better than 'Joe Public' just look at the garbage that year after year wins the Turner prize, .

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:19 AM

Loved Brisingamen and Gomrath as a kid. Read the Owl Service again last year, brilliant stuff.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:36 AM

Gosh! And there was I innocently assuming that Mudcat, would be just the place to endorse the obvious joys of Modern Art! :-)

I think Charles' re-imagined English village, is in fact the quintessential Art Instillation... What a genius!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

The Qatari royal family have just bought the world's oldest league club to re-establish their rightful place in the football pantheon.
Still, while we have bellicose reactionary threads like this there'll always be an England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:50 AM

Not sure who this Joe Public bloke is but I doubt if anyone has actually bothered to ask him what he thinks - especially Charlie Windsor who has the unmitigated arrogance to think that his personal opinion counts above everyone else's. If you think Charlie is an arbiter of good taste, just look at the way he dresses - worse than most folkies!

I think the re-imagined village should be a republic.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:05 AM

Bear in mind the Turner prize is (mainly) for conceptual artists and the people who buy their stuff (Saatchi and Co). How long before we hear someone on the operating theatre shout through his anaesthetic 'Call yourself a surgeon. My 8 year old can do surgery like that.'

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:13 AM

Yes, TL - we should follow the good people of Nepal and form a Republic of England, where the like of Mr. Windsor can push his views democratically.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:15 AM

I must admit my early enthusiasm for conceptual art has diminished drastically over the years. It might be naive, but I find the almost obscene commercial value of much art product, a big turn off. And all the marketing hype. There are no doubt incredible visionaries out there, but I you probably have to dig for it. And I lost the desire to seek. I probably really aughta take a trip to Tate Modern sometime though, and re-imagine myself as being eighteen or something...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:18 AM

I'm with Ron on the mediocre celebrity cult of so-called modern art, and as a sort of fringe Monarchist I might even find myself siding with Prince Charles too, especially when it comes to architecture. Recactionary? Moi? But of course...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 09:45 AM

Charlie's idea of architecture is Portmeirion as re-imagined by Barratt Developments. But purely for external consumption.

Modern conceptual art is art marketing, a branch of futures trading. To like or dislike it misses the point. There's plenty of representational art around, it's just that C4 prefers women with Nancy Cunard haircuts and men in brothel creepers as art's spokespeople.
Some contemporary art is most affecting.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:06 AM

"a Republic of England"

you can count me out

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:46 AM

"Charlie's idea of architecture is Portmeirion as re-imagined by Barratt Developments."

Yeppers. The err 'genius' art instillation comment, was kinda meant in a tongue in cheek fashion... :)
Though I can also see it, somehow. But only if the faux ye old England village houses, also homed faux "real" modern people who had to live there for the rest of their lives - as a kind of extreme performance art experiment.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:01 PM

"you can count me out"

....8, 9, 10. You're out.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:06 PM

took you awhile to dream that comeback up did it...typical *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:17 PM

"took you awhile to dream that comeback up did it...typical *LOL* "

No.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:47 PM

Now This My Idea Of England

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:51 PM

Well oddly enough, I'd prefer Platonic 'Philosopher Kings' over any Tyranny of the Majority... I doubt Charlies exactly the former. But he IS s Hippy at least, which is Good Enough for me. In this much (amongst others) I also find myself a fringe Monarchist.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM

so now this imagined village has its pet right winger (WAV) and its pet left winger (Sugarfoot Jack ) Oh joy life is complete........

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

It's not as simple as that, RM: according to the common understanding of politically Right and Left, on some matters, I'm the former; and, on others, the latter. But I think that questioning future ECONOMIC immigration is actually a Left Wing attitude.

Poem 75 of 230: IMMIGRATION'S LEFT AND RIGHT

Letting people
Enter a state
For factors like
Terror through hate.

Rewarding those
Interested in
Gains which oppose
Heritage and
The state's own shows.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

And here's what I think of capitalism:

"ENDS
Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support." (from "Messages," via the above links, if you like).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:33 AM

WAV - kindly keep your racist bullshit out of this thread.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:52 AM

I was responding to being called a "right winger" by RM, and nothing in that response is "racist", SO.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:52 AM

Wot he said.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:55 AM

Unsolicited offerings of poetry without an optional link is the equivalent of people showing you their operation scars uninvited. Please don't.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:35 AM

Fact is, WAV, rather like the rather fatuous excuses for morris-dancers blacking-up over on the Motley Morris Banned! thread, any opposition of immigration in this day and age becomes racist by default. There is no such thing as unlimited immigration - this is a myth you (and others) perpetuate, likewise your other somewhat unreasoned polemic which you really need to sort out, all the more so given the current climate.

In our re-Imagined English Village all the diverse ethnicities of 21st Century England will co-exist quite peaceably, as people do for the most part in my experience. Our unity will be enriched by our diversity, and our creative individuality will be greater than any so-called cultural tradition of whatever persuasion. Whilst WAV might say when people lose their culture society suffers (though what he actually means by this has never been made clear) the reality of the situation is when people lose their culture there is generally a good reason for it and the results are, invariably, liberating.

Thirty-years ago this very month four young men from the north West of England released an album that coalesced a cultural movement and remains even unto this day as iconic as it is musically definitive. In WAV's world these four young men would have been playing their own good folk music, which means they would have produced some hearty Lancastrian pastiche instead of the epic which in WAV's world is simply American Pop. WAV - your simplistic visions are charmless aversions to the actualities of cultural richness and the celebrations thereof; likewise, your persistence with immigration myths is wholly divisive and arguably specious to a deeper level of xenophobia wholly at odds with the realities of life in England in the here and now. For such word-crimes against the popular enlightenment I hereby condemn you to another day in the stocks, not so much being pelted by rotten vegetables, but being played tracks from Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures at very high volumes until you realise the obvious error of your ways.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:49 AM

"any opposition of immigration in this day and age becomes racist by default." (SO)?..That IS wrong.

"There is no such thing as unlimited immigration - this is a myth you (and others) perpetuate" (SO)...no I don't - I accept that there are, of course, regulations re. immigration/emigration, but argue that they should be strengthened.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:54 AM

We've thrashed over WAV's philosophies many a time and more in various threads in the past. But we never get any solid answers to the questions we pose. I'd just like you to answer me one, David - as honestly as you can (and then I'll depart this conversation):

Why is it necessary to have a world in which people in a country should only play, sing, eat, grow and otherwise be involved with things which (by whatever weird definition) are Native to that country? Your use of "Multicultural" actually means "Nationalistic", and multicultural, as far as I'm aware, means several cultures co-existing together in one country.

Anayway, to return to the question: What is inherently better - in your view - about a world in which such a situation exists? I don't mind what the answer is - I'd just like to hear you give your reasons for believing it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:01 AM

"But I think that questioning future ECONOMIC immigration is actually a Left Wing attitude."

No offence WAV old boy, but I think your and my ideas on immigration, economic or otherwise are poles apart.

Modern art and architecture are of course far broader churches than the old fuddy-duddys of the world ever seem to grasp. I agree that Hurst et al are basically the manufacturers of expensive derivative tat for wealthy marketing wonks with too much time on their hands and a distinct lack of taste or insight (although a well-developed ability to spot an investment or even create a market). Duchamp is probably sat in the otherlife wondering if anyone ever got it in the first place.

What about Chris Drury? Andy Goldsworthy? Richard Long? Anthony Gormley? And let's face it, Manchester has benefited greatly from architects and a local authority with vision and the courage to allow modern cutting-edge developments alongside some the finest Victorian buildings ion the world. You need to look forward to put the past into context, and like the architects of old we too should be able to articulate ourselves through this most visible means of artistic expression.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

Will: trying to have different cultures living under the one state-law (via imperialism and mass economic/capitalist immigration/emigration will always cause problems - the latest example, in our news, is China.
Whilst the ideal of having the land, the culture, and the law of the land all linked (with eco-tourism and fair-trade between different lands) may never be reached, making economic/capitalist immigration/emigration illegal, via the UN, from now on, will make our world a more peaceful and interesting place.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:44 AM

Anthony Gormley?

No thanks!

One of the reasons I moved away from the North East was to get out of the shadow of The Gateshead Flasher only to find a nearby beach has been besieged with further examples of his art. I'm of the belief there's enough structural beauty in the world without public sculpture cluttering things up further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznkdwwOg0w

In the re-Imagined Village public money would be spent on things of some actual benefit to people.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:57 AM

I'd like the skies above our re-imagined village to be populated by mysterious orbs, and the fields by enterprising folk artists, making land art:

Like this, and this, and this

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:10 AM

Love it, CS! Always have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfcw7ohkuOU

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 10:40 AM

Excellent stuff!

I once found a pattern that had been mowed in a grass meadow clearing up in the local forest. Someone had taken the trouble to haul a lawnmower up there and create the image on a patch of uncultivated land right amongst the trees. It certainly gave the area some . . . thing intangible; this small greensward was situated next to an old stone trough that a small spring emptied into and I wondered if there was some significance to that? However, of more significance was it was the only real patch of open grass near the track (which could take vehicles) and was accessible from the road.

Lots more here from the circlemakers.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:02 PM

WAV - kindly keep your racist bullshit out of this thread.

WAV will deny it till the cows come home but the quote is basically true none the less, and even if he is xenophobic and not racist, his posting are the sort of fodder that scum of the BNP feed on.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:14 PM

No RM: I don't knock any particular culture (in the way you, e.g., repeatedly knock trad. English culture); rather, I repeatedly question the act of economic/capitalist immigration/emigration itself.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:21 PM

(in the way you, e.g., repeatedly knock trad. English culture)

WAV - what exactly is this trad. English culture of which you speak? Do give some few examples and explain what qualifies them as being objectively and absolutely trad.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:36 PM

"repeatedly knock trad. English culture"

I've forgotten more about English traditional music than you'll ever know, WAV, I grew up with the aforementioned tradition thanks to my father. What I thoroughly reject is YOUR nasty, blinkered vision of England ( a nice all white society where everyone is well behaved) You haven't got a clue,sunshine so stop pretending you do!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:08 PM

"In the re-Imagined Village public money would be spent on things of some actual benefit to people."

Too right - starting with free beer (or a nice port an lemon for the ladies). Sorry, wrong thread again!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM

Rum and Pep with a large umbrella for me. No, on second thoughts a pint of Tim Taylor's as usual.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM

"(or a nice port an lemon for the ladies)"

I know of women who can knock back a pint with the best of'em, mind you that wouldn't meet with WAV,s approval, but heigh - ho!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:30 PM

West Indian members would be allowed a refreshing rum punch In Little WAVing drunk from a coconut cup, German's a beerstein and excitable Italians, a Chinti. And here comes Miss Marple giving Beatrix Potter a knee trembler in the Morris Minor. That'll never do. Stop in the name of Plod! Girl on girl action has Much Lesbos in the Marsh for that sort of thing, turn left at Pooh Bridge and if you can see Dingly Dell you've gone too far.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:34 PM

*LOL*
(Tim Turner voice over)
"This Too Is England"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:46 PM

Can we book this lot to play the village hall?

And can I have these two as my next door neighbours?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:51 PM

"this lot"

The Scottsville Squirrel Barkers *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:47 PM

"WAV - what exactly is this trad. English culture of which you speak? Do give some few examples and explain what qualifies them as being objectively and absolutely trad." (SO)...E.g., I just posted a recording of "Young Emma" (complete with an English-flute intro! and a pic. of a "lowlands low" that I'm sure you'll recognise).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:27 PM

Oh WAV.

Words fail me.

Not very good.

in sorrow

Stu