BS: World's Cup Soccer

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 04:19 AM

Absolutely, McG - right on the ball (pun intended BTW) :-)
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 11:22 AM

Good for Germany! Again.

(BTW, Spaw, I do hope you recognized my TIC 'childrens' allusion.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 02:50 PM

They did pretty well. The Brazilians outplayed them in the first half, but they stuck to it and got their own game going in the second. Nobody ever beats the Germans just by being good before half time. The level of skill was very high too. In many ways it was better to watch than the men's game. There were plenty of goals in the tournament and there seemed to be less cheating.

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:05 PM

I think the Brazilians outplayed them in the second half, though not by as much. Apart from the German goalie, which made all the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: alanabit
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 07:21 AM

The goalie definitely made a difference. Germany's first goal was very fortunate - probably a goalkeeping error. The Brazilians also fluffed a penalty. I think at that point most of us realised it was not to be their day. Good footaball though, wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 08:39 PM

Some of the Brazilians were really very good indeed, especially Marta. I was pleased to see that now they are going to set up a women's league in Brazil, which should help keep up and even raise the standard.

The rest that I saw, compared with top flight men's players weren't quite up there yet - but that didn't stop it being pretty good to watch. The best players don't always make for the best matches, in any sport. (For example in Tennis where if people keep serving aces it can get pretty boring before very long.)

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 11:32 AM

Good point. Possibly the most skilful World Cup Final I ever saw was Brazil vs Italy (men) in 1994. It was appalling as a spectacle though and goalless!

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 03:21 PM

McGrath, I'm curious and would like you to search your memory. Germany (men and women) has been in 9 world cup finals (runner up: Brazil with 8) since they are played. Do you personally recollect any of these finals (whether Germany won or not) in which you had the impression that Germany was the better team that should have won or won deservedly? (:-)

You look at the game with a completely different perspective than I do. Football is a team sport and like in other team sports the mere addition of outstanding single athletes does not make a good team. I can appreciate for instance that a rugby team has one outstanding player but that the other team has a much better organisation when they have the ball. I can appreciate that one basket ball player makes three wonderful slam dunks during the game and does better tricks than any other player but that his team's defence is cueless who tackles which player.

I have seen a very different game last Sunday (well, I have only seen the second half and later some replays of first half actions). What I have seen was the following: Beautiful individual play by several Brazilian players; lack of organisation in the Brazilian defense; very good Brazilian attacks up to 30 yards from the German goal; Brazilian inability to bring one of their players into a hopeful and unchallenged position in the German box; no Brazilian player (in particular Marta) who was in the situation to have free place to run after having outtricked (passed) a German player; a German defense that had always two players (often three in the case of Marta) against one from Brazil; Brazilian attacks based upon individual ability and rarely based on teamwork; a nearly complete lack of Brazilian double passes in comparison to German.

Look not only at the goals (goal or not as we all know has also a chance aspect) but at the best chances:

Germany had three times in which they had a player in the Brazilian box with only the goalie before her. One time they did score with the Brazilian defense allowing Germany's best player (several times awarded best player of the world status) to shoot from about ten yards distance. The second German goal was not bad defense by Brazil for the player who scored was tackled when scoring. The three best chances of Brazil were a penalty, a freekick from outside the box and a kick from outside the box. Brazil did never get a player inside the box in a good shooting position without challenge from a German defender. But they looked very nice in the midfield. And they really should exercise headers, they were bloody awful in that part of playing football.

By the way I had a deja vu recalling the last time (which was also the first time) we saw a Germany-Brasil final. The last time, the player who after the game was awarded the best-player-of-tournament award, German goalie Kahn, made an awful mistake to allow Brazil their first goal. He didn't look happy when fingering this award. This time, Marta was elected best player and she also didn't look happy. She must have remembered that it was her mistake that decided the game.

BTW (though Shambles is not here who thinks that penalties are just a matter of luck), Marta's (and only her) way of penalty shooting was well studied before the game. The corner in which the German goalie was to jump and the moment of jumping (late, too late for Marta to correct) was not decided by a coin throw.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: World's Cup Soccer
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 08:11 PM

No, I'm not actually that excited about individual stars, I think football is more about a team playing together, and the stars have to fit into that, but so do the ones who aren't stars and never will be.

But when watching I'm more interested in the play being fluid and beautiful than in the actual score. Especially when I'm pretty neutral about whom I want to win, which most of the time I am in international games. Except I tend to want the team who is playing more attractively to win, and that means Brazil more often than any other. (Men or women.)

Penalties - no they aren't just a matter of luck, though there's a big element of luck in them. But a penalty goal isn't ever in the same class as a good goal in open play. You'd never get many penalties (if any) featuring in a collection of Great Goals.