BS: Football World Cup 2006

Subject: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 May 06 - 11:49 AM

As this event is nearly upon us - does anyone have any predictions?

As a lifetime supporter of the England team since the Walter Winterbottom days - I am really interested in any thoughts of what form our usual disaster will take? The one that will prevent The England team from winning and will later be used as the excuse - rather than just accepting the fact that there were better teams with better players and better managers.

Like Booby Moore's (alleged) shoplifting, Ronaldino's (fluke) free kick and 'The Hand of God' etc.

Unless of course the usual disaster does not happen and the England team (with our boy wonders) actually go one to win it (again).

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 12:59 PM

This will be the 11th World Cup I have actively followed. By far the most painful for me were those in which England were non-combatants. I like the look of this 2006 team, although I acknowledge the injury to Rooney will be a problem. Still, the withdrawal of Jimmy Greaves in 1966 caused many a head to drop, and that turned out OK ...

I like the fact that it's in Germany, a sensible nation that doesn't go in for feigned injury. I hope it's a good tournament, a grand spectacle, an unmitigated success as a beacon of good international relations and that England wins it. The odds are against the latter, but so long as it doesn't come down to penalty kicks, you never know ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 May 06 - 01:24 PM

Amazing choice? of strikers from Sven, though. One who is so badly injured he probably won't play, one who is just returning from injury, so Sven won't let him play in a testimonial in case he aggrevates his injury, one a nine-foot beanpole that everyone was laughing at six months ago, and some lad who hasn't actually played the game before. Seeing as you use up to three strikers in each game, where does that leave us? In the same group as Sweden, obviously.

It's just as well that England have quality midfield players with the ability to score goals...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:02 PM

That's it in a nutshell really Les. Rooney is definitely out for all of it and Michael Owen is unlikely to finish three games - let alone a passing movement. That means nobody is causing the defences to fumble attacks, in the way, which provides ammunition for our midfielders. The fact that all our midfielders can shoot is likely to prove ineffective, given that our reserve forwards are nowhere near good enough to force mistakes at this level. Expect England, who have never beaten Sweden in a competitive match, to score no more than five goals maximum and be on the plane home in the second week.
Germany will play considerably better in front of their own fans, if they can get up a head of steam after their second or third game. They don't have many truly great players, but they are usually determined - and lucky - once tournaments have started. Given warm weather and dry pitches, either the Brazilians or the Argentines ought to walk it. However, if the pitches are wet and cold, they may have to start running - and then several teams will be in with a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:14 PM

Why not shoot yourself now?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 May 06 - 02:39 PM

I predict that it will fill the pages of our newspapers, the screens of our TVs, and the speakers of our radios with pompous pontificating people wasting millions of cubic metres of hot air on what is after all only a silly game.
As a result many good programmes will be displaced, and many esoteric ones will be discovered in the desperate search of the airwaves to avoid having to listen to the bloody thing.
Think of the starving millions all that wasted money could feed!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 03:54 PM

Think of the billions who will enjoy all that cultural feasting.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:09 PM

I am not going to shoot myself because England are not going to win the World Cup. We Brits have got used to that! It is a disappointment though. England are now rank outsiders and that is a shame, because had their best players been fit, I would have said this was the most talented squad of players we have had in my lifetime.
Let's just hope there is some good football played in a good spirit to enjoy. Maybe a side of the quality of the brilliant French team of 1998 will emerge. I can enjoy quality football whether we are in with a chance or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:14 PM

Football? Culture? There's more in Yoghurt, and it isn't obsessed on so.

If I ask for this thread to be closed will Shambles moan about censorship? It's nothing personal, just trying to avoid one of the most overblown subjects going.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:19 PM

England are not going to win the World Cup. We Brits have got used to that!

Well, this Brit has never got used to it. It's still one of the most talented squads we've ever had; the only player (probably) out is Rooney. Have a little faith, man!

Optimism-R-Us

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:21 PM

Bunnahabhain, to avoid 'one of the most overblown subjects going' simply stay out of the thread. Simple really.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:22 PM

Calm down dear, it's only a silly game!
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 May 06 - 05:22 PM

It's my religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: autolycus
Date: 10 May 06 - 07:07 PM

The lads have got it about right between them.

47 out of every 48 are World Cup free.

Most of what we spend money on in the West could be better spent bringing the rest of the world up to speed. Maybe. Like the trillions on weapons. The trillions on stock market gambling. The trillions on our absurd way of life.

And for those who don't like footie, there are more books to read than you'll ever have time for. Ditto films. Ditto works of art. Ditto conversation. Ditto science to learn. And just how many TV and radio channels do you need to escape stupid, wonderful, annoying soccer?


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 01:39 PM

If you don't even want to discuss the subject matter I'd say stay out of the thread. Having said that. The world cup is not all about England but since you are all speaking about their chances, I'll add this. I agree that on paper this looks like the strongest team England have had in years but the loss of Rooney is a big blow. Lets have a look at the team and what I'd do if I were Sven. Well Robinson gets the nod. Gary Neville at right back. I'd pair Terry and Campbell in the centre of the defence. Ferdinand (even though I am a dyed in the wool united fan) is suspect. At left back I'd play Cole if he is fit. Failing that Carragher. Hell I'd play Carragher in the holding role in front of the defense in which case Bridge would come in at left back.

Where I think England is weak and I know this will be controversial but remember I'm Sven here. The centre of midfield has got to be a worry. Lampard and Gerard and even Carrick play far too advanced for me. Now Lampard gets the start no question but I wouldn't pair him with Gerrard in centre. I'd much prefer a good holding player like Reo-coker. I've seen England caught out too often with Gerrard and Lampard too far advanced and the opposition strolls through the middle. Beckham has been doing well much to my surprise for Real so I'm not sure wheather he would start there or Gerrard on the right side of mid-field. On the left I'd go with Joe Cole. I'm going 4-4-2 cause England can't play any other system.

Up front without Rooney who knows? But I will go with Owen and the boy Walcott. the latter would give me the option of having him drop deep much like Rooney does and use his pace. Owen tends to rely on the ball over the top and I want to see some football played, with Lampard being the playmaker.

Having said that, I pick Brazil to win. I've never seen them stronger and they've already hammered Argentina, and beat Germany in the Confederations Cup. My dark horse is Mexico or Serbia-Montenegro or whoever makes it out of Group C.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:05 PM

Good grief, Den. Walcott? Why not play me up front ... you've never seen me play either. ;o)

Seriously, I love Sol Campbell but I fear he's past his best. I have a cringing feeling the likes of Ronaldhino will leave him in their dust. Remember how Mara(cheaters do prosper)donna made Peter Reid look like a carthorse. Well, like that.

Brazil is a safe bet to do well. They have the same 'unbeatable' aura that ManU used to have. Still, that's gone too ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:16 PM

Yeah, but BPL who would you have partner Owen? Surely not Crouch, I'd probably play you instead of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 02:27 PM

The Argentines had no idea what to do with Lofty and it led to their downfall. He was red-hot in Liverpool's late-season revival. I have confidence in a Gerrard-Owen combination with the midfield left to the Chelsea boys.

I have to say I like the look of this squad for Euro08. And I just read the Scotland score. Good job I was sitting down!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:48 PM

Both Beckham and Gerard can find Owen quickly from thirty yards with both feet. The problem is, how fit is he? He is not yet back to match fitness. Unless he makes an astonishing recovery very quickly, I can't see Owen having much effect.
I think anyone who saw Liverpool's astonishing Champion's Cup Final last year will have high hopes of Steve Gerrard - whom I would have made captain.
As I wrote earlier though, unless the weather is pretty cold and wet, I don't see anyone having enough talent and accomplishment to beat the brilliant Brazilians. Damn it, they even have a good goalkeeper this time around!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:58 PM

So who's your dark horse? Mine's Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 04:31 PM

Germany is my dark horse ... I think they'll make the semi final.

The Brazilians are not gods. (They're only named after them ;o) Last time they met England it was a very, very tight game decided by a single (controversial) goal. They are beatable, nothing to do with the weather.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:20 PM

Just an aside, but Alan Shearer's testimonial for Newcastle United just finished and I'd like to take a second to acknowledge what a great player he has been. This was one of the most important goals ever scored for England, IMO, as it finally undid the hex Germany held over England since 1966:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/image_galleries/shearer_career_gallery.shtml?33

Who will the new hero be?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 11 May 06 - 05:21 PM

Sorry Big Pink Lad. That was me without a cookie at 3:48. I had not noticed my name was not on the post.
"They are beatable". - Agreed. Any team is. Even the better side in a game of football needs luck to win. That is what makes it exciting. However, I do not believe that England have ever beaten Brazil (or Sweden) in a competitive match.
"Nothing to do with the weather." I am afraid that on a warm pitch against an in form Brazil, there can only be one winner barring the most bizarre developments. Although I agree with you that this is the most talented England side for many years, no more than three of them would make it into the Brazilian squad.
Believe me, I would love to be wrong. And while we are at it, before we get carried away, even if England get past the group stage, they will soon run into either Holland, Germany or Argentina. As they say, the fight does not always go to the strongest nor does the race go to the fleet of foot. But that's the way to bet! England could survive against any one of those sides if they put up as disciplined a performance as they did against Argentina in the last World Cup. I can't see them doing it twice in a week though. The record books show that we have overcome the Germans in only one competitive fixture since 1966.
In football miracles can happen. The Germans still refer to "The Miracle of Berne" in 1954. Somehow, Greece are the reigning European champions. Seen in that light, I guess England are candidates. However, if they won, it would be a shock on that scale!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:22 PM

I am going to stick pins in my eyes during the world cup as it will be more fun than watching it or even listening to it.
My time will come when we are out of it, which hopefully will be early!
Skipy
oh! by the way I was in the local Rugby Club back in Nov. 2003 when we acctually had something to celebrate, without kicking the shit out of each other or smashing things up, or defiling our flag, funny how we don't need to ban rugby supporters from travelling around the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 06:40 PM

Hey! Everyone look! Skipy doesn't like football but just had to drop by to let us know. Thanks, skipy ... and sorry to be writing about football in a thread with a subject line saying Football World Cup 2006.

Now fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:46 PM

But it's a pity about the English World Cup songs...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 11 May 06 - 07:51 PM

Well hi bigpinklad.
Don't you think that your last statement played into my court, aggresive, abusive, threatening & not the behaviour of a gentleman.
I rest my case.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 May 06 - 09:01 PM

Just punching back, Skipy. Your tired cliche's about football violence don't alter the truth of the matter, which is that many millions of people will be following the World Cup. More than a billion will watch the final on TV. There will be no more violence than usual, which is exceeding little. If some poor sod gets killed travelling abroad to see his team it brings the tripe hounds out of the gutter, baying for a short sharp shock. The fact is that many more holiday makers get mugged and beaten in sunny climes than ever get set upon at football games. Have you ever been to one? Or even a rugby match (not the telly ... live ... it's where life happens) Count the number of dead from football-related violence over the last 30 years and see how many times it fits into the number dead from pilgrimages to Mecca in the last two years. Nothing like a bit of hyperbole to whet the appetite. You might be looking forward to seeing your warped views come to fruition, but, like the VAST majority of football fans, I am looking forward to a safe and secure tournament.

The only bit you got right is that I am not a gentleman.

Kevin, write us a song, dude. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 May 06 - 01:35 AM

We are agreed on that much BPL. I was in Köln for the 1988 European Championships and it was a good natured party all the way. The brilliant Dutch won the tournament at a canter and the Dutch, Danish and Irish fans in particular, spent most of the time singing and making the rest of us laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Skipy
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:12 AM

Fair comments BPL, but what pisses me off is the wall to wall coverage & the obscene ammounts they are paid.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:17 AM

I can sympathise with that to some degree Skipy. I recall last year, when the Pope came to Köln. I was aghast at the disruption caused by masses of hapy, well behaved young people. I was also quite baffled by them and wondered to myself, "Shouldn't these young people be taking a bit more interest in sex and drugs and rock and roll?" Different strokes for different folks. Fact is, even if only a quarter of the population is really interested, that still makes quite a lot of folks.
Really big money for players is a phenomenon, which is less than fifty years old. At the end of the day, any sport, which has the capacity to attract a large number of people, will inevitably draw financial rewards to the players, who are the centre of attention. As you know, rugby has had to face this dilemma pragmatically over the past few years. Whatever the merits of amateurism, it is no longer feasible in a mass media age.
Get some good books, a couple of videos of England winning the Rugby World Cup and a good stock of beer mate. It will all be over soon enough and you can have a good time of it in your own way!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:34 AM

As Giok said, it is a silly game - but it also is fun, or could be. But now they make a big business out of it.
As our national coach Sepp Herberger once said: The ball is round, and a play lasts ninety minutes. That is all you know before the show starts. In the end the best team will win - with the usual necessary bit of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:15 AM

BPL you have to remember in the game between England and Brazil. Brazil were reduced to ten men after Ronaldinho was controversially sent off and still won. Who knows the result could have been more than 2v1 had he stayed on the field.

But enough about England. Who will make it out of Group C. Argentina, Holland, Ivory Coast or Serbia Montenegro? Will Spain be able to shake off their underachiever moniker? Will there be any surprises from the African contingent? Will a non-European team win on European soil, a record held by Brazil since 1958.

Any predictions for the golden boot?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:53 AM

Skipy, my apologies for the eff-off. I use the expression as a comma, so no insult intended (well, maybe a mild one ;o)

I wish I was paid as much as top footballers, but they work a lot harder than me and their earning life is on average, I'd estimate, about a decade. Professioal sports is one of the few areas where popularity with the masses translates into fair return to the performers. Look at the millions of hangers on who can't kick a ball straight and still get rich. Look at all the poor sods writing, playing, recording music who get at best a small percentage portion of the revenue it generates. Good luck to them, I say.

I don't want to start a prediction league, but my guesses for second round would be as follows:

A Germany, Poland
B England, Sweden
C Argentina, Netherlands
D Portugal, Angola
E
F
G

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:56 AM

Bit premature there ... (the wife complains about that, too ...)

E Italy, USA
F Brazil, Japan
G France, South Korea
H Spain, Ukraine

Happy Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: skipy
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:51 PM

BPL, no problem at all, Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Billy McKinley
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:03 PM

See work has got underway at Colditz Castle in the town of Colditz near Leipzig to house the England supporters. We can all be assured they will never let us down when it comes to punch up's, wrecking businesses, breaking windows, insulting people in the street, breaking the odd jawbone of a passing 80 year old in the street. Ah all to look forward to. Oh not forgetting their National Front jibes and songs in the terraces.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:34 PM

Billy. Hunt?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Bella Haddock
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:42 PM

Is that true ? are English soccer fans really nasty and misbehaved while overseas ? Why doesn't their teams body do something about them. Must look the English fans up on the net. Thanks Billy for the heads up.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,John Terney
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:05 PM

Yeah it's true alright about the England fans. They get some really bad press. Worked in London England for two years. They are scary to watch. Insult the players and fans of other countries. I remember Germany playing in the famous London grounds. It was all nasty shouting about who won the war and attacks on fans with broken bottles. Organised and orchestrated the press called it.I imagine the German police will be ready for them, at least I hope so !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Brakn
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:41 PM

Re The state of English Football.......

In the (European) Champions League quarter finals, of the last eight teams, Arsenal, Barcelona, Milan, Villarreal, Benfica, Internazionale, Juventus and Lyon, not one English player took part. I think there were 18 Brazilians. It doesn't look good, does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:51 PM

You must think we just fell off the turnip truck if you think you can sign in as several Guests and back up your bollocks with with more bollocks, pal.

You remember working in London for two years 'Guest,John Terney,' yet your memory fails when it comes to remembering the name of the ground you watched Germany play in. It's quite famous ... even people on Pluto have heard of it. No more clues, except Germany never played in any other famous grounds ... just the one ... you know, the famous one you don't know the name of. And yes, insults are hurled back and forth, it's a tradition. Bottles? You never saw such a thing you lying bastard.

Here's what I'll do ... for every 80 year old that has his jawbone broken by an England fan I'll give Max $100, if you'll do the same should it not come to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Hrothgar
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:21 PM

F Brazil, Australia

Now here's something to conjure with - what will you do if Australia gets past the first round and England doesn't?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 May 06 - 12:54 AM

I bet the earth will open, out will gallop the four horsemen of apocalypse, saddam hussein will be found innocent as charged, and the kangaroos will start jumping backwards in surprise..........

Are there any really sexy teams this time? I remember that Argentinian team with the bollock tight shorts made a big impression on the ladies in '78? For a while everybody was going round with Tarantino haircuts. (see male pubic hair coiffeur thread for other fashion suggestions)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,Evelyn Waugh
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:23 AM

TheBigPinkLad, insults are hurled back and forth, it's a tradition ? I never saw the German salute given by any other pack of supporters than the English ! Overseas members please type in the word HEYSEL to see English fans at their finest. Watch them in June !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:32 AM

Oddly enough, the Australians beat England quite easily at football when the two sides met in England a couple of years back. I am not saying that will happen again. Unexpected results keep sports alive. I believe England even beat them at cricket not so long ago!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 May 06 - 05:46 AM

That's getting fixed later this year.

We'll have a thread for it at the appropriate time.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 06 - 10:44 AM

Evelyn (same Guest as others) ... the more you rabbit the more it becomes evident that you don't know thing one from experience, only what the tripe houds feed you. The fascist salute is hurled at the Germans from EVERY European 'pack' of supporters. you can see it at Tottenham too sometimes, you won't know who Paolo di Canio is but get on yer Google and find out. He's Italian by the way.

Heysel was an unmitigated disaster which was a tragedy for both sets of fans caused primarily by sub-standard infrastructure and secondarily by by football fans of BOTH teams ... neither of which was the England team, which makes your shit-stirring more than two decades out of date and 100% mischievous.

By definition, overseas members were smart enought to join Mudcat, unlike you (hey it's not difficuot, get a grown-up to help). They are smart enough to see through you.

Even if you drag every shred of naughtieness from -- I don't know, how many decades are you prepared to go back? -- into your rant it doesn't alter the FACT that English football fans are 99.9% like me: peaceful, fun and good-looking.

The saddest thing is that we now know what is the only thing that will make you and your kind happy. I too invite the Wworld to watch England in June, and, hopefully also July.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 May 06 - 10:47 AM

Australia ... i'd like to see the Aussie lads do well. The Wembley fiasco isn't likely to occur again (touch wood!) ... hopefully Sven will stick will 11 or 12 players this time.

Good luck for the tournament and best wishes from the Northern Hemisphere!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 13 May 06 - 02:04 PM

Having just watched the FA Cup Final, I can only say, please God don't let anything happen to Steve Gerrard. I don't think another England player like him will come along in my lifetime.