Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America

Subject: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:39 PM

Rufus Wainwright has been on TV a lot over here (here is England)singing his song I'm So Tired of America.

Apparently it's a comment on the war.

However when people from third world countries are selling their kidneys to stand a chance of being smuggled into the USA. Doesn't the song sound a little petulant in tone? Or perhaps its just me.

Subject: Lyr Add: GOING TO A TOWN (Rufus Wainwright)
From: bobad
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:46 PM

Rufus Wainwright GOING TO A TOWN

I'm going to a town that has already been burned down
I'm going to a place that is already been disgraced
I'm gonna see some folks who have already been let down.
I'm so tired of America

I'm gonna make it up for all of the Sunday Times
I'm gonna make it up for all of the nursery rhymes
They never really seem to want to tell the truth
I'm so tired of you America

Making my own way home
Ain't gonna be alone
I got a life to lead America
I got a life to lead

Tell me do you really think you go to hell for having loved?
Tell me and not for thinking every thing that you've done is good
(I really need to know)
After soaking the body of Jesus Christ in blood

I'm so tired of America
(I really need to know)

I may just never see you again or might as well
You took advantage of a world that loved you well
I'm going to a town that has already been burned down
I'm so tired of you America

Making my own way home
Ain't gonna be alone
I got a life to lead America
I got a life to lead
I got a soul to feed
I got a dream to heed
And that's all I need

Making my own way home
Ain't gonna be alone
I'm going to a town that has already been burned down

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:57 PM

People from third world countries are also selling their kidneys to stand a chance of being smuggled into Canada, the UK, Germany, Holland, France, Denmark.....anywhere where the standard of living is way better than in their country and it's a safer place to raise their children.

The USA is not alone in that respect, weelittledrummer, so there is no reason to get defensive about people criticizing American foreign policy on the basis that some poor people still want to live in the USA.

They will stop wanting to do so when the USA's poverty levels exceed those in their own country...if that ever happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:59 PM

Me, I'm just tired period. Change of venue probably wouldn't help much.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 May 07 - 05:04 PM

Probably heresy - but I saw RW playing on TV at the weekend. I think it was just after the Waterson's Concert at the RAH.

Frankly he had about a tenth of the talent of Eliza - and that's being generous.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 16 May 07 - 05:18 PM

An excellent song...by a wonderfully talented singer....will be a little surprised if it gets much airtime on US or British radio...have only heard it twice thus far.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: shepherdlass
Date: 16 May 07 - 05:27 PM

Folkiedave, usually I so agree with you ... but Rufus W and Eliza C are very different (famous folkie lineages apart): it's hardly comparing like with like. Both are superb artists in their own fields - Eliza with great renditions of Anglicana; Rufus with his own qualities which, yes, maybe have more in common with Sondheim than his parents, but are special all the same (that voice!). Let's just be glad that at least two artists who veer from the mainstream manage to get a reasonable amount of media exposure.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 16 May 07 - 06:55 PM

I certainly hope no one is selling their kidneys (as in plural) to go anywhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 16 May 07 - 10:34 PM

I haven't heard it, but looking at the lyrics, it's not a great song. It's a shallow, one-dimensional, ignorant song whining about the worst of American stereotype. You know, the part that doesn't even apply to 99% of Americans if you bother to get to know them.

I wouldn't sing something that pointless and small-minded about Canada. I wish he would return the favor.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Grab
Date: 17 May 07 - 09:07 AM

He's a good singer, but it's not much of a song. Razorlight's "America" is better. And for recent mainstream anti-war stuff, Nerina Pallot's "Everybody's gone to war" is better too. Although mainstream anti-war doesn't get much better than Springsteen's "Born in the USA" - last year, I think it was, there was a live recording from a concert with him doing it as an acoustic blues with slide, which really nailed the lyrics into you.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 May 07 - 10:24 AM

"I'm gonna make it up for all of the Sunday Times
I'm gonna make it up for all of the nursery rhymes"


Deathless! What's it supposed to mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 May 07 - 11:10 AM

I think I saw in the paper that Rufus is going to be on David Letterman's show tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Stu
Date: 17 May 07 - 11:40 AM

I like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 07 - 12:12 PM

Maybe they can get Jerry Lawler on too, and Lawler can whack Rufus in the face for being unpatriotic...

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: kendall
Date: 17 May 07 - 04:38 PM

I wonder how many foreigners wouldn't come here for any price?

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,lksa
Date: 19 May 07 - 12:22 AM

People should be free to speak their minds. If they have the fame to make it heard further, so much better for them. I am also tired of America, and what it has become.

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 07 - 06:02 AM

I'm not American. I'm English.

However I'm uneasy about the mixture of ennui and cynicism in the song.

I get pissed off with people saying we are a secular society - devoid of spiritual values, just because most of us don't subscribe to simplistic religious dogmas.

If youre tired of what you're country has become - then try to change it. To do otherwise is selling short all the people who came before you and tried to change things.

And its saying to all one party and theocratic shithole countries round the world - you're right, there is nothing worth trying for. And worse still. its saying to the unfortunates who live under such subject rule - America and all it stands for, isn't there for you. Its just the same old, same old.....wherever you live.

Subject: Lyr Add: RELEASE THE STARS (Rufus Wainwright)
From: Mickey191
Date: 19 May 07 - 11:45 AM

Saw him on Letterman's Show, I just don't get the couple of raves here. This is the song he sang:

Release The Stars"

Why do you keep all your stars in from your studio on Melrose Avenue?
You've lost all your assets ?? in life-long contracts to you
Didn't you know that old Hollywood is over?
Oh, can't you see all the good that celebrity can do for those in the dark?
Yes of course, I am speaking in metaphors for something more in your heart
Didn't you know that old Hollywood is over?
So why not just release the gates and let them all come out?
Remember that without them there would be no Paramount
No paramount need to hold on to what isn't yours
Release the stars
The more that you fight, then the more they will scrutinize and realize just your size
And believe me, you are no match for the public that has seen no ??
Didn't you know that old Hollywood is over?
Old Hollywood is over
So why not just release the gates and let them all come out?
Remember that without them there would be no Paramount
No paramount need to hold on to what isn't yours
Release the stars
Release the stars, release your love, release the stars
Release your love, 'cause Hollywood is over
Why do you keep all your stars in from your studio on Melrose Avenue?

Looking at other lyrics he's written-and his voice I'm wondering how & why he gets paid?

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 May 07 - 04:26 PM

I tend to get exceedingly impatient with people who assume that being a secular society or a secular person means being devoid of spiritual or moral values. Some of the most spiritual, moral, and ethical people I know don't subscribe to any organized religion. They came to their conclusions about ethics and morality through philosophical study and contemplation rather than religious teaching.

And some of the most unspiritual, immoral, and unethical people—and groups of people—in the world, go around trumpeting their belief in a Supreme Being (as in God or Allah) and claiming superiority over everybody else because of their sublime ignorance and egotism.

The first song is kinda stupid, both as a song and as a concept. How can a reasonable person judge an entire country on the basis of a leader with only a 26% approval rating, and whose election by a razor-thin margin may very well be the result of hanky-panky at the polls?

And the second song sounds like mere whining.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Rufus W. - So Tired of America
From: michaelr
Date: 20 May 07 - 01:40 AM

WLD: "America and all it stands for" does not exist, and hasn't for a good long while. It's a fiction, a hoax. I know: I came here the year Reagan was elected. Imagine my surprise.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 07 - 05:35 AM

It may not stand for anything to you.

But it stood for something, when Eisenhower's troops liberated Paris in WW2.

It stood for something to those people who built a model of the Statue of Liberty in Tianamen Square before the tanks moved in.

It stood for something when Bill Clinton was helping to put together the first peace that has held in Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 20 May 07 - 10:02 PM

Rufus W. sings backup vocal to Kate & Anna McGarrigle in a performance of Stephen Foster's "Better Times Are Coming" on a 1991 Columbia Records album of Civil War songs.

Written in a bygone era, but perhaps an appropriate reply to "I'm So Tired of America" -

"There are voices of hope
That are borne on the air
And our land will be freed
From its clouds of despair...

Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah!
Sound the news
From the din of battle booming
Tell the people far and wide
That better times are coming."

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: CET
Date: 21 May 07 - 01:27 AM

I have to say that I'm with Scoville and WLD on this. I think Rufus Wainwright is a whining brat, with a really ugly voice and no particular talent as songwriter. He's also someone who owes quite a bit to America. For reasons that escape me, America seems to have made him succesful.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:13 AM

I don't say anything about Rufus's talent - I can't judge. Music is a highly speculative business, and someone obviously sees him as worth a flutter.

As a song though, the lyrics of this one seem so ill considered.

If you go somewhere like Spain - they have always seen American society as morally degenerate. If you point out to them that - hey at least Americans weren't degenerate enough to let themselves be ruled by fascists, they don't get it. And I bet you can multiply that feeling by ten in all these Muslim countries, and sure as hell it was the viewpoint in Soviet Russia.

Don't get tired of America and democratic process, or you will forget that its something worth being proud of and defending. No ones saying its perfect, but where aelse are you going to go ........the moon?

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: dj bass
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:37 AM

RW is a tortured soul and it comes out in his voice.

Isn't the point of this song that he's gone to live in Berlin where there is a thriving culture with which he feels more comfortable? I must say that reading the lyrics did make me wince a couple of times.

RW is rather like Marmite: love or hate - no half measures.

dj


(For those not familiar with the great British invention Marmite, it is a yeast extract bi-product of the brewing industry that is best eaten spread thinly on toast, or incinerated, depending on your popint of view.)

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Stu
Date: 21 May 07 - 04:40 AM

" hey at least Americans weren't degenerate enough to let themselves be ruled by fascists, they don't get it"

But they were degenerate enough to let themselves be ruled by a morally corrupt right-wing religious troop of neocon warmongers who lied to their own people and made sure American multinationals profited from the ensuing bloodbath though, weren't they?

I don't see any problem with Wainright's song - it's a purely personal polemic and in that respect like thousands of other songs expressing an opinion. It strikes a chord because many people feel threatened by the aggressive consumerist imperialism and military belligerence that has become a very prominent part of how the US is viewed across the world.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 07 - 05:31 AM

'But they were degenerate enough to let themselves be ruled by a morally corrupt right-wing religious troop of neocon warmongers who lied to their own people and made sure American multinationals profited from the ensuing bloodbath though, weren't they?'

You're missing the point. most of the world is singing a song of disillusionment with American values and materialism. And the ones singing loudest are further to the right and more illiberal than anything America has to offer.

The countries shouting and singing this message the loudest are places where RW's lifestyle and sexuality would be a criminal offence. It does rather place him in the moral position of a turkey going round with the carol singers.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 May 07 - 06:08 AM

I don't much like the music of Rufus Wainwright's parents though it was of its time.
I'm not that keen on his sister's work.
I don't like many of his songs but his voice is glorious and his personality shining.
And so I wish him well.
What is totally irrelevant is his lifestyle and sexuality.
Homophobia, like any other ignorant prejudice, has no place in music, any more than ill-informed and misplaced comments on one form of Islam.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:31 AM

Countess Richard: "What is totally irrelevant is his lifestyle and sexuality."

Except that he has chosen to make such an issue of it and uses it as his primary marketing tool.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 07 - 07:57 AM

Why do the words 'Oh sod off! we're trying to have a serious conversation', leap unbidden to my lips and the forefront of my thoughts.

Whether you wish RW well is completely an irrelevance. I'm sure we all wish him well and for no mishaps to befall him.

Something sticks in my craw about this song. And the thing that sticks with me most is (as I have said) those poor sods building an image of the Statue of Liberty on Tianaman Square. For so many people around the world - people imprisoned literally and people imprisoned in awful systems of goverment - America is still the 'the last best hope of mankind'.

The message of the song that actually America's a load of shit and its let me down every which way. Just feels 'wrong'. Thats a sensual appraisal rather than a cerebral one, I'm sure there is smart and brutal putdown for my point of view, and I'm sure Countess with your unerring instinct for confrontation and ridicule, you will find it. But I think its a valid point of view.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:41 AM

But there is relevance in the disappointment felt by many around the world at the wasting of the dream that is America. In my opinion, this will be GWB's legacy, and it won't be kind. America has always occupied a certain position in the world. We have made many mistakes, and there is much to not like in our way of life, yet we always stood for liberty and democracy. We always were among the first to jump in and assist those in need. After 9/11, the good will of much of the world was in our corner. There was a chance to exercise our leadership, and our moral position, and to effect a change for the better for all of us. That was all squandered by this President, and his legacy will be one of shame.

While I tire of gratuitous attacks on my country, I certainly empathize with those that are disappointed with the course it has taken in the last 7 years. I would only say to you that as fast as it strayed down this path, it can also correct itself. There are many of us committed to this end.

And why introduce homophobia into this thread? What has it to do with the subject. Bigots.....they are always there.

Mick

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 07 - 09:11 AM

I think the same thing was said about Vietnam, and I was one of the ones saying it and marching on the American Embassy.

Yet it was a world where 600 million Chinese were brandishing little red books at us. Those young men who died in Vietnam did play an important part in stopping the progress of Soviet Communism.

War is never the popular option. look how you and I have disagreed over the IRA's campaign Mick.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Stu
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:05 AM

" And the thing that sticks with me most is (as I have said) those poor sods building an image of the Statue of Liberty on Tianaman Square"

What sticks in my craw about this is the way American multinationals are complicit in the suppression of free speech in China for purely commercial reasons.

Go to www.google.cn and type in 'tiananmen square' now and see what comes up (one dissident website at the time of writing - see how long that stays up). Now do the same at www.google.com - see the difference? That's an American corporation suppressing the information at the request of an oppressive, violent foreign government that has invaded sovereign nations and tortures and executes it's own people. The same is happening with the new mySpace pages in China (a report was in The Observer yestersay).

American consumerism driving oppression and killing free speech for a suffering people.

Rufus states in his song "I'm gonna see some folks who have already been let down", well Tibet and China is a good a place as any to start.

Shit, Wainright has hit the nail on the head!

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: CET
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:15 AM

My comment about his talent as a songwriter was badly phrased. I think his lyrics aren't much good and I intensely dislike his voice. I also don't like facile attacks on America. However, I would certainly be prepared to admit that he has plenty of musical talent. He seems to be a good piano player (though I'm no judge) and he can write tunes.

CET

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Ref
Date: 21 May 07 - 08:01 PM

I don't condemn RW for his thoughts. I imagine being and growing up gay is difficult even in a relatively enlightened place like Canada, and even being the pampered scion of a couple of minor musical/artistic dynasties. I think his song lyrics are silly and his voice is a grating honk. I remember seeing him in the video for Songs Of The Civil War and thinking, "So that's the kid. I hope he doesn't think he's gonna make a living in music, at least not without surgery." There's no accounting for taste.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 May 07 - 10:22 PM

Some of you, apparently, don't know how wonderful and precious dear Rufus is. Check the Wikipedia article.

You will learn of his "complete security of intonation, even over a dense accompaniment", his friendship with Elton John, his partying with Barbara Bush(the young one) his awards, the opera he is writing in French, more awards, his crystal meth addiction and the songs he wrote about it, his friendship with Leonard Cohen, even more awards, his Carnegie Hall Concert in 2007 recreating Judy Garland's Carnegie Hall concert, his gayness, the songs he has contibuted to movies, even more gayness, his awards for songs he contributed to movies, his awards for songs that he contributed to gay movies.

Soon, we'll all be singing, "So Tired of Rufus Wainright"-----

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,*^*
Date: 21 May 07 - 11:14 PM

It's the Canadian in Rufus that makes him so tired of America.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Grab
Date: 22 May 07 - 08:18 AM

Those young men who died in Vietnam did play an important part in stopping the progress of Soviet Communism.

Did they? Remember that the Vietnamese *won*. If Vietnam did anything, it showed the Communists that a country which really cared about it *could* stand up to everything the US could throw at them. Vietnam was something for Communism to be proud of. (At least until they made the same mistake in Afghanistan.) And if you think the fact of US involvement stopped other countries "turning red", remember that the rise of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia was a direct cause of US destabilisation by carpet-bombing that country. Vietnam was an abject failure in every area.

Communism only failed because it couldn't stand the economic pace and people were left destitute in a country (Russia) with the richest mineral resources in the world. That would have happened anyway. The arms race accelerated it, but Vietnam was never a factor.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Bee
Date: 22 May 07 - 09:03 AM

Most of us get tired of America at times - even many Americans. And in Canada, while we earnestly believe that most Americans are good people, and are indeed our friends, many of us sometimes feel a little beaten down by the cries of friendship from the American government (not just the present one) that go along with softwood lumber disputes, the attempts to influence our laws, the condemnation of our attempts to help our industries (while subsidizing American agriculture to the tune of billions, and making laws, for example, that don't allow so much as an American fishing boat to be built outside of the US), the occasional agressive attempts on our Northern sovereignty, and on our oceans, and the often insufferable your-big-brother-doesn't-approve lectures from American diplomats, and on and on.

America is huge, rich, seems mostly owned and run by enormous corporations and devious politicians, and is seen as pretty ruthless in pursuit of its own interests. It's certainly up to Americans to run their own country as they see fit, but no one else need approve, and anyone can express an opinion about it. You must keep in mind that outsiders do not see America from the same perspective that her citizens do, and sometimes we are indeed distressed by what we see.

I'm sorry some ordinary Americans get their feelings hurt whenever an outsider (especially one who is seen as having benefitted from US exposure) comments adversely on present day America, but it is certainly our right to do so, and that includes Rufus. I'm not a Rufus fan, but I think he is talented, and he obviously has a following.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 May 07 - 12:06 PM

Don Firth, your post is music to my ears!

Frank

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: robomatic
Date: 22 May 07 - 12:33 PM

He may be 'tired of America' but what's his passport say? Is he gonna give it back.

He can go on tour with the show 'my name is rachel corrie' and continue the verbal flatulence with that crowd.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 May 07 - 01:31 PM

Rufus is not only the "pampered scion of a couple of minor musical/artistic dynasties," he comes from as long line of influential American "insiders." I remember years ago, reading about his father, Louden III, as the son of a Life magazine bigwig. If I remember correctly, Grandpa wasn't exactly a self-made man, either; the family has been positioned at the center of American wealth, power, and influence for generations.

It has to be extremely weird to grow up in an environment where all the adults and all their friends and not simply financially comfortable, but they also easily assume virtual ownership of access to the public mind via the mass media, or in other cases, via thegovernment. Whereas most of us grow up with the assumption that millions of other fellow citizens are pretty much like ourselves and our families ~ "in the same boat," so to speak ~ for kids growing up in families like the Wainwrights, the masses are peons to whom one can pander, or with whom one is morally obligated to sympathize, but only a very few others (most of them personal acquaintances) are in our "same boat" with us.

To members of the ultra-privileged group, the rest of America (and of Canada, and by extension of the industrialized and English-speaking worlds too) are as distant and different from themselves as third-world famine victims are from most of us. Depending upon one's religion and politics, a child of such exalted position may grow up finding it morally imperative to aid or at least care for the "masses"/"workers"/"common folk" ~ or, on the other hand, they might learn that it's their duty to rule us as "benign" overseers ~ but they don't know what it is to live life day to day as a regular person.

Louden III, by the way, was/is just a bit precious for my tastes. As you might imagine, I am even less apt to found among Rufus' admirers. When I saw him on Letterman last week ~ my first time ever to see and hear him, by the way ~ I tried to give him a sympathetic hearing, in a simple effort to understand what all the hoopla is about. I really tried not to let his bizarre choice of costume put me off, and may not have been wholly successful. But I really did try to maintain objectivity.

I'll acknowledge that he has a strong voice and an impressive range, but it all sounded like nothing but a lot of whining to me. (That's just based on the vocalization, now; I couldn't really make sense of the rather dense lyrics, not on first hearing and not without a copy to read along.)

Well, each to his own taste, and all that. This guy just doesn't do anything for me, I had never in the past been motivated to go out of my way to give him a listen, and when TV gave me a chance to check out his act, my disinterest was only confirmed. If you enjoy his songs and singing, so be it ~ enjoy. But none for me, thanks.

As for being sick and tired of America, I too am sick and tired of much that has been done in the name of America by some of our political leaders, and I'm no longer very surprised by any of it. On the other hand, there's a lot about America and American people that is absolutely wonderful, not least of which is our music, which has become the world's music, a synthesis of African and European expression that could never have happened anywhere else in the world. (Nowhere but iin New Orleans, actually, but I don't want to get started on that right here and right now, thank you.)

And of course, I have nothing but admiration for the ideals upon which the republic was founded ~ secular Deist ideals, by the way, conceived and established by a bunch of freethinkers most of whom never saw the inside of a church, at least not once they had become adults. Of course, the best and truest of these values are taught by every religion and can be accurately described as "Christian," or "Judeo-Christian," or for that matter as "Muslim" or "Buddhist" or "Hindu" or whatever. But don't get me started on those jackleg preachers who love to deny "Americanism" to those of us outside their congregations, as they fraudulently claim Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, et al, as their co-religionists.

I am by no means always proud to be an American, but I certainly feel privileged and lucky to have been born in the USA.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 May 07 - 01:34 PM

It is fine with me if RW wants to have an opinion and state it. I have a personal philosophy of "Speak your Mind." This means words I get to hear words I want as well as words I don't. You just can't develop an intelligent opinion until you hear what the other guy has to say.

So I am willing to hear RW state his position just as I am willing to listen to G. Gordon Liddy state his. (Don't lets somebody say only a right wing idiot listens to Liddy and make my point for me. I have higher regard for you guys than that.)

Interesting, maybe only to me, the only songs I have heard RW do that I like I like better by other people. Also RW didn't write these songs that I do like. Halleluia and Across The Universe.


Don

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: GUEST,Some of you make me so mad
Date: 27 May 07 - 12:12 AM

Someone on here said:
If youre tired of what you're country has become - then try to change it. To do otherwise is selling short all the people who came before you and tried to change things.

It's a common answer. It's so glib. And it's clearly pretty much always said by someone who hasn't in fact ever spent much in the way of time or effort trying to change things. I have, for the past six years, only to see a madman re-elected President, and then to be told that we will in all probability still be in Iraq in 2016 (assuming Hilary Clinton or any of the Republican candidates are elected) due to a Democratic congress which is afraid to stand up to the most unpopular president since Nixon.

In the past six years I have frequently volunteered 20 or more hours during a when I worked 60 hours, and given that entire week's wages to a candidate. I have caught pneumonia while being an election watchdog volunteer in the rain for six hours because the poll workers wouldn't let me inside the polling place, I have walked through neighborhoods that scared the crap out of me to help get people to the polls after four hours of sleep, I have done all kinds of stuff for candidates for whom 'well, he's better than the other guy' is the *best* that could be said.

You're goddamned right I'm tired. And if I'm not enough, along with those like me, to make a difference, and if the other 99.9% of the US isn't willing to make any effort, but is quite happy to point out that if I don't like things, I should try to change them, then yes, what I'm tired of is America.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 May 07 - 02:40 AM

me who said it. And its not intended as glib. My parents put their lives on the line to protect democracy in WW2. Much less is being asked of our generation.

Look - you have free elections in your country. a free press.

6 out of ten people don't avail themselves of the elections and the news media is owned by powerful corporations.

However they don't own the net. So theres never been a better time to organise and agitate.

Free electons and a free press - is your message to the world - these things aren't worth having?

If Al Quaeda can use modern techniques and take advantage of the liberality of the place to blow your country up - why not use these same things to build it into somewhere you're proud of.

Subject: RE: Rufus Wainwright - So Tired of America
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 07 - 01:33 PM

There is a vast difference between 'America' the country and "America" the idea. Most of us believe that the idea of America is a good one, you know, the one they wrote about in the Federalist Papers, the one that Lincoln described in the Gettysburg Address, the one 'conceived in Liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.' There is also the America that is a venal moneygrubbing fascist warwongering moron who likes to swing its weight around no matter who gets hurt. There is the SUV driving thoughtless America with its insatiable need for all the world's resouces, stuffing its fat stupid face with American Idols and shoving Jesus in your face while picking your pocket.

I think Rufus is just recognizing that 'America' has a lot to answer for. If we could make the idea of America more in tune with the reality of America then maybe this song wouldn't have its ring of truth.