BS: Language/violence in films

Subject: BS: Language/violence in films
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 07:54 PM

I settled down tonight to watch a Danish film, "Brothers", I'm a great fan of European cinema. It was on BBC4 (Recorded by me).
Before it began the announcer warned that it contained "strong language". This means the subtitles sometimes contained the "F" word!
What I would have liked him to say was that the film contained a scene of man's inhumanity to man so extreme in its nastiness and violence that I had to stop the film and consign the dvd to my dustbin.
The question is why is it we need to be warned about language and not about scenes so violent and evil as to be almost beyond imagination, and certainly in my case, beyond watching, if warned?
Why do "they" consider the printed or spoken word more sickening than visually nauseating and nightmare inducing visuals?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 10:24 PM

Good question. Wish I had a good answer, wordy.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 10:31 PM

"a Danish film, 'Brothers'"

So, not all of the sewer effluent we call entertainment comes from Hollywood. That is good to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 09:09 AM

What Peace said.

I have to read reviews very carefully these days.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 08:52 AM

Some Playstation disks are showing icons on the back of the case which make it a bit easier to identify the content.

The icons give a suitable age and pictures for violence (a fist), horror (a spider) and such things. Maybe they ought to extend this to DVDs. Usually on DVDs the warnings are written in such small writing that they're hard to find, let alone read.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 11:11 AM

It's ok to make and distribute a film that shows someone sticking something into someone else, as long as it's a weapon and not a body part. It IS strange.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: GUEST,oohthatwasnasty
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 11:37 AM

"..the film contained a scene of man's inhumanity to man so extreme in its nastiness and violence that I had to stop the film and consign the dvd to my dustbin."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2005/05/04/brothers_2005_review.shtml

..this serious adult drama is approved for audience viewing at UK "15" cert.. ?????


perhaps being a little bit too over-sensitive and melodramatic in your extreme shock
and outrage.. ??????

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 11:39 AM

It's his shock and outrage. He didn't ask YOU to be shocked and outraged. Post under your Mudcat name or fu#k off.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: oohthatwasnasty
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 11:53 AM

ok then, old grumpy pants..

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: pdq
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 12:01 PM

We need to get the sex and violence out of the movies...........and back in the home where it belongs.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Becca72
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 12:06 PM

Most of the movies here in the States do have a disclaimer regarding
"voilent content" as well as the language warning. That in addition to the ratings system lets you know pretty well what you're getting yourself into.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 12:39 PM

It's the fact that violence, and sometimes extreme graphic violence, is regarded as entertainment that horrifies me.
Just what is entertaining about watching people killed, maimed, and tortured.
It is no wonder that the whole of society is more violent these days, when such behaviour is everyday fare for many.
It is not permitted to physically punish children, so the only physical pain many of them encounter is on the screen of their TV or PS2, in a second hand fashion.
Surely if someone uses physical violence on another person it is apposite to punish them in a like manner.
I'm an atheist, but I do believe the bible got it right when it said "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: jeffp
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 02:45 PM

It also said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 04:12 PM

Hmmm, wordy. I looked for this film at netflix and found it. Puzzled as to why none of the critics or viewers review said much about the violence. Surprises me. The only mention I saw was someone referred to an "incident" that happened to one of the brothers who was in the war. It surprises me because I thought netflix was pretty good about noting such things. Thanks for the heads up. From the reviews I probably would have ordered this for viewing.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 04:37 PM

I say Giok has got it right. Children are taught that their actions have no consequences. In films, on TV, in the courts. They are bombarded with violence as an acceptable solution to solving disputes and they bombarded with rudeness proffered as humour.

Even worse, I see such behaviour as commonplace in public. On the roadways, in the shops. It is apalling. I wonder why these basic SKILLS of good manners are waning and all I can think of is that they are being "taught" and seen as acceptable by these media.

Call me a prude... but, I say there is no excuse for poor manners. To say that the portayal and glorification of violence and rudeness in these media is acceptable is just plain fuckin bullshit.

But, hey! If you don't agree or care for what I say, you can turn the damn channel... until you are the one that gets bitten in the ass by this problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 04:50 PM

Hell gnu, it's being taught not just by the media but from the very top down starting at the White House! And once again isn't it interesting how Clinton paid the piper for a blowjob and yet Bush can kill thousands? Our priorities as a culture are what is appalling.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 04:58 PM

Wait a second Giok - you say that the media is too violent, but then you say the Bible has it right - an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth???   I'm not seeing he logic.

Which is more violent?   Read the bible and you will find all kinds of violence, rape, incest and other items too juicy for TV. Do you think the bible should come with a warning label?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:17 PM

LOL......Yeah Ron, for more reasons than one!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:25 PM

oohthatwasnasty,

Welcome to Mudcat. May the farce be with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:30 PM

Yes, Spaw... impeachment for a blowjob... a second term for lunacy.

Ron.... the logic is plain. If you do not teach children that their actions have consequences (eye for eye) and then teach them that violence and rudeness are acceptable and laudable, what are you gonna get?

As far as the bible... forget it... mass media has always been the bane of the poor and naive.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: dwditty
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:33 PM

Running to burn my copy of Lord of the Flies before I get revolted.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: dwditty
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:33 PM

books...films...whats the diff?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: gnu
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 05:51 PM

BTW. We are all on the same page eh? I am not talking about censorship or adults. I am talking about CHILDREN.

Of course, I see a lot of adults daily that are either stupid or ignorant. I moved a lad's grocery cart today... he left it the aisle along a stand alone display so that one could pass and he was ten feet away looking at whatever. After I "moved" (I shoved it several feet) his cart so my 80 year old mother with one blind eye could pass, he gave me a look and asked, "In a hurry are you?" I ignored him and we cashed out soon there after.

Now, don't just ya wanna be not there with Mum? Don't ya just wanna overturn his cart? Or put some stuff in it while he is not looking? Or just grab it and run off? Or ask him what the fuck his mother was thinking when she raised him to be such a complete fucking moron?

Why are people so rude? And so stunned?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 07:03 PM

Sorry Gnu, teaching "eye for an eye" is not the same thing as teaching kids that there are consequences. You can teach children lessons without resorting to that old garbage and get better results. It is a cop out to blame violence on the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 07:15 PM

Maybe you should substitue the 'eye for an eye' analogy (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth? Pretty soon the whole world would be blind and toothless) and put in 'burnt hand teaches best'.

When Limpit was small, she often did things that were dangerous, so I would tell her no. If she continued to do them and ignored me, I let her carry it through. Pretty soon she learnt that if she banged her head on the concrete floor on purpose, it was going to hurt her, so she stopped doing it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 10:12 AM

The bible also spends a lot of time pointing out that the nefarious practices in there are wrong, and telling you you WILL pay.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 11:08 AM

"The bible also spends a lot of time pointing out that the nefarious practices in there are wrong, and telling you you WILL pay."

True, and most of the movies and TV programs do the same.

There are also passages in the bible where God asks for animal sacrifices, and let's not forget God destroying Sodom & Gomorrah and killing everyone (including babies & children) while sparing Lot and his family - and Lot offered his daughters up to a mob of rapists, and let's not forget all the plagues and killings of first borns and other lovely subjects.

Obviously the bible teaches other messages. The point is, you can choose to walk away with whatever message you desire. When you focus on a violent scene in the move "Brothers" and fail to see the point of the movie, is that any different from re-interpreting the message of the bible?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 11:52 AM

The bottom line is, adults are responsible for what we take in and for what adults allow children to take in. I've never had any trouble finding out in advance what I may run into, or in turning off something that turned out to be beyond my taste.

That said, I personally do not enjoy Bible-based movies because (A) the visual so easily becomes recorded in our minds as reality and (B) one director's image of reality is smaller than whatever I can picture from hearing the Word and reflecting upon it. It isn't meant to be consumed via imagery, but by hearing.

This is equally true of other subject areas. Just last night I saw a GREAT program all about dragons that blends reality and fantasy in one cohesive program. It's so visually compelling that it's hard to see where the reality and fantasy divide-- purposely on the part of the filmmaker. The images will now interfere with my experience of fine writing that I hold dear, and I am sorry now that I watched it.

Tolerance for war is totally reflected in today's video games. Way beyond simulators that used to train people on expensive machinery, more sophisticated than our generations can grasp. Normative daily experience for bored, lonely children.


I think our culture is just making everything so instantaneous that our society is being hijacked, propagandized, and made able to accept just about any bullshit the "powers-that-be" care to dish out. I see Soylent Green right around the corner; I see computers preying on humans around the next corner; I see a whole lot of rape of the environment rushing past the thinking person faster than an individual can choke out a question, protest, or alternative.

This is a reactive society not by accident and not by ultimate design, but as a strategy for taking over what we hold dear for profiteers.

The movies are the tip of the iceberg.

They say when you boil a frog slowly they don't feel the heat till they die. I see not a fire but an iceberg making us numb-er, and numb-er, and numb-er. These iceberg tips-- don't be fooled by any single one, because the big picture is much scarier.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 12:05 PM

I feel that the adjective applied in the usual warning about language forms used in some presentations is incorrect.

Surely these announcements should say 'Warning- contains ' weak language ! !!

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 12:07 PM

My understanding of the whole "eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth" quote was this - it's not acceptable to retaliate. But if you are going to do the wrong thing and retaliate then you are not allowed to go beyond the level in which you've been harmed. In other words - don't escalate.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 12:23 PM

"Tolerance for war is totally reflected in today's video games. "

Perhaps, but it no different than the tolerance of war that was reflected in movies of earlier generations, as well as comic books, pulp magazines, novels etc.   In those times, you had the media supporting the efforts just as much.   It may not have been as graphic, but the case could be made that by NOT showing the violence it made war that much more acceptable. For a kid in 1940 who only read comic book stories of the glory of war, were they prepared to face the reality of the horrors of war?

Yes, it is true that technology can blend reality with fantasy. However, writers did the same in the past.   Is it fair to protest against a so-called violent video game and call works of literature "great art" when they reach the same conclusions?

In this day and age we have access to different views and different opinions. Violence and intolerance have ALWAYS been with us, but perhaps today we have greater opportunities to teach different paths.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 12:31 PM

Don't care what anybody says, or how many examples they give, violence is glorified and sublimated in the name of entertainment. It shouldn't be happening, as violence breeds violence. It always did too.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:00 PM

Sorry John, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as I am mine and I disagree that entertainment breeds violence. Entertainment breeds a lot of love and peace too, but I don't see it being given credit for that either.   There are deeper factors at work.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:05 PM

As someone who is very squeemish I am always pleased when they warn you on the news that some people may find something distressing - I go out of the room.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM

Of course it can Ron, but the large number of extremely violent and graphic computer games aimed at children/young people for example are becoming a dominent source of "entertainment" for many of our younger generation.

There is no connection between the violence and consequences; I'm with Giok on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:48 PM

With all due respect, should we also be concerned about the extremely violent Lord of the Ring and Star Wars? These films and books featured "glorified violence" and called it entertainment. Perhaps our children should be kept away from these? What parent in their right mind would expose their children to such scenes?

A lot of people make statements about "extremely violent and graphic" computer games are becoming the DOMINANT source of entertainment, but what is that conclusion based on? Do you play games? Do you shop in the game stores and see what the best sellers are?   Have you played Halo? What games have you experienced?   If you think they are violent, did you ignore the game rating that is clearly listed on the box?   Did you buy a game that was inappropriate for your child?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:58 PM

"Tolerance for war is totally reflected in today's video games. "

Perhaps, but it no different than the tolerance of war that was reflected in movies of earlier generations,

Yes, it IS. It is so much more real-seeming than the older stuff, and MUCH faster which thus casues a different neurological processing. Watch one played for an hour and tell me it's the "same."

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:07 PM

Ron I've read (as a teenager) and watched Lord of the Rings which is essentially a modern morality tale of good truiumphing over evil with well drawn characterization.

I have no children of my own in the age group I referred to but have plenty of friends that do.
On a recent rainy holiday with some friends, including several children aged 10-16, I experienced a lot of these games (which had been bought independently with pocket money) monotonously from early morning to late night. They are really not the same thing at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:10 PM

I did not mean to say that it LOOKS the same, nor was I saying that the effect was the same.   What I tried to say is that the MESSAGE given in earlier movies tried to glorify and justify war even more than these so-called video games.

How many kids in years past wanted to be Audie Murphy or John Wayne storming a hill and killing all the bad guys?   What about role models like James Cagney or John Garfield who let their fists do the talking?

I guess what I am trying to say is that this "sky is falling" mentality that seems to creep out whenver some mainstream media has a slow news day and decides to target violence in video games is simply short-sighted.   I'm not advocating violent games, but I do think that this is less of a problem then people make them out to be.

Sure, the shooter and Virginia Tech and the students at Columbine are going to be brought out as examples of people who supposedly were "influuenced" by video games. The Virginia Tech shooter also made comparisions to himself and Christ in his rambling notes, but I don't see anyone crying out that the bible should be banned on campus.

I'm sorry, but I think people are looking for a quick fix and focusing on video games as the culprit. There are deeper issues that are at work and it is impossible to pin it on a video game. Society has changed for many reasons and people have changed accordingly.   We need to fix things, but I think we focus on the wrong issues when we try to find a scapegoat like violent games.

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:15 PM

Emma, I could not comment on the games that your children played since I don't know what they were. I do think that the games that I've allowed my son to play teach similar morality lessons to the one that you feel Lord of the Rings taught. Your point may be that the lesson is missing in the game, but that might be in the eye of the beholder, just as someone could miss the morality of Lord of the Rings.

Where does it end? Do we put a stop to Rennaisance Fairs and all the violent swordplay that goes on there? Do we stop all this ridiculous sword dances because it glorifies a weapon?

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:20 PM

Most of those kids had uncles big brothers or even fathers killed in the second world war, so they knew first hand the effect of violence and death on the family.
Even allowing for those killed in George and Tony's little Eastern Adventure a death in the family is an alien concept.
Death is unreal to the kids of today, and it only ever seems to take place on a screen, even grandparents live longer, so they often don't encounter death in REAL life until they are quite grown up.
Too much fantasy not enough reality, that's' a big part of the problem.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: gnu
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:37 PM

Too much of the old word twisting in here for me. Usually, I attempt to make my own arguements and let others make thiers... not (mis)interpret others words or intent and purport such as supoort for my arguements.

There is a "T" intersection 20m from my driveway. There is a stop sign on the intersection. On average, on my way to my driveway, I pass thru this intersection 15 times per week. At least once a week, someone ignores the stop sign and I have to veer around them or slam on my brakes. As a precaution, when appraoching the intersection, I have my hand on the horn and drive slowly. At least half of those idiots who nearly cause an accident with me give me the finger and an angry look. I was not brought up that way.

Now... interpret that... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Wesley S
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:52 PM

For those who might be interested - here is the ESRB system used to rate video games. It includes all of the sub-headings like "fantasy blood".

Game ratings

Subject: RE: BS: Language/violence in films
From: Melissa
Date: 04 Oct 07 - 01:10 AM

it seems to me that part of the video game comparison is left out...when you're playing a game, you are the one pushing the button.