BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:06 PM

Well..............You ain't gonna' like this but................

Herniated discs come in several types and affect the spine in different ways no matter where they are located...cervical, thoracic, or lumbar. The disc is a cushion that separates the vertebra and allow them to bend and move with some freedom. The disc itself has a reasonably firm "shell" and a softer interior. As we age the material gets harder......shame it ain't your.......uh, sorry........Anyway, "herniated" means ruptured or broken. Too often we call this a slipped disc. It isn't. Discs don't slip. Period. The end. Complete horseshit. You can't stick them back into place.

Every vertebra has notches in it that match with another notch in the discs above and below forming a hole for the nerve to pass through as it exits the spinal cord.   Where these nerves go determine much of where the pain is. For instance in what is commonly referred to as "sciatica" the nerve at the bottom of the last Lumbar vertebra becomes inflamed as the disc material pushes on it OR the vertebra themselves are too close and the nerve opening (intervertebral foramen) is too small. The inflamed nerve causes pain in the back itself and often continues for the length and branching of the nerve. In the case of the sciatic nerve the pain is in the lower back and will extend down through the buttocks, hips, thighs, knees, calves, and clear to the foot.

The same thing happens wherever this occurs in the spinal column and the nerve affected can be only minimally aggravating or completely debillitating. It simply depends on how the disc is herniated and how badly. Many people can use the treatments of heat and cold as you have in conjunction with both rest and proper exercises to get past an acute attack. In some cases, anti-inflammatory meds are used and these are both the non-steroidal type such as Naprosyn or even Aspirin and the steroidal type which help in an even stronger way by binding with cortisol receptors. NONE OF THESE and no amount of manipulation will "cure" the problem. However if the hernaition is not severe and the acute phase can be managed through one or more of the above methods you will just need to be careful in the future, do the exercises, and jump on the drugs at the first sign of trouble.

On the other hand, the problem will still be there and may become worse as you go along. No legitimate orthopede will do surgery if it isn't warranted and that's why all the tests. Many of them will try various drug and exercise combinations and even refer you to pain clinics. But if it comes to the point where nothing helps...............................

Bobertz I know you know what a "Midget" is.   In '75 I had a bad crash and my lower back took a bad hit. As I aged I also developed a form of arthritis common to many that is not age dependent. Its called degenerative disc disease and that combined with the effect of the injury started creating problems. In my mid 30's I would have periods where I would be "out of action" for a week or longer. Most times I would "tough it out" like a dumbass and I took NSAIDs like candy, also like a dumbass. This meant that I hurt for months on end but I was somewhat able to do things. I'd have a month or two of "almost normal," then another attack. I was teaching Auto-Tech at a Vo-Tech when I was 40 and my back had become so bad that I could put no pressure on my legs at all. The lower back itself hurt so damn bad it was unbelievable.    As the school year ended I was unable to walk and EVERY position was pain filled, even laying down except in ridiculous positions. For a month I laid on a day bed and crawled back and forth to the bathroom.   The Ortho said I would need surgery and laid out the possible side effects which aren't all that appealing. But they ARE just POSSIBLE side effects and for me the question was simple. Can I live in this pain the rest of my life or not. I couldn't. I was at the point I was ready to kill to GET the surgery!

I came out of surgery with no problems and Karen will tell you that my worst time was the day after when they had promised to help me up out of bed. I was a mean bastard all day as I couldn't wait to see if the pain had really gone. I stood up to my full height for the first time in months and the pain was gone! I will never forget that feeling. I had three done--L4-L5-S1

I know other people who have had longer recoveries or been left with some problems like numbness. A friend of mine had a similar procedure as you are looking at and was amazed at how quickly he recovered. Another friend still has numbness almost 20 years later. Both would do it again as would I. I have had no problems since but when I think about the year I spent pre-op, it a gawdamn nightmare Man.........

For years I had tried all manner of manipulations and treatments from chiropractic to herbalists to hynotism to accupunture and none of it worked. If you understand how the back functions and what the discs do, you can see why. The problem is never truly repaired and IF it continues to worsen, only the surgical option will work. And btw, there are times they CAN'T do surgery.

So here's my message to you.........If you want to research something, find the best ortho you can in your area or even in the next large city. One of the keys to getting through ANY surgery (and I've had way too damn many) is to have confidence in the Cutter. When you are comfortable with the Doc and he says you need surgery, remember your other option which is live in pain. If your problem has become as bad as you are describing it, you probably DO need surgery. See what the MRI looks like but if you need surgery, DO IT. Or decide you can live with the pain for the rest of your life and have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. I'll send my best thoughts and everyone else will as well but you're gonna' be in pain if its as bad as you say.

Damn but I feel good! Sorry 'bout you...............

Spaw-----passing on my best wishes, thoughts and TOUGH LOVE.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:47 PM

Bobert's got a cervix?? Here all along I thought....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:43 PM

Oh Jeez, Bobert - I hope they don't have to amputate at the neck!

Seriously, whatever the MRI shows, and whatever is recommended - get a second opinion.   If the recommendations are very ambiguous, then get a third opinion, preferably from outside of your immediate hospital region.

If I can find it again I'll send you some links on interesting research regarding orthopedics. There are significant regional differences in how often surgery to the spine is recommended, and the rates of spinal surgery by region.   

I do a fair amount of pain management work with people with chronic orthopedic pain. Outcomes post surgery with respect to pain tend to be generally better today than they were 15 or 20 years ago, but are clearly not guaranteed. The cervical area seems to be particularly delicate. Some orthopedic practices may be a bit too quick to recommend surgery (not for reasons of monetary gain, but because of perspective.) However, there appears to be a delicate balance when it comes to trying other things first. It would seem (and I am basing this primarily on client self-report) that damage to the cervical spine can be progressive if no intervention occurs, or if non-surgical interventions are unsuccessful and surgery is put off too long. A point can be reached where the damage is such that surgery is no longer a viable option, especially if you have arthritis, or develop arthritis as a result of the injury to the cervical spine.

If you already have have osteoarthritis or degenerative disc disease, or a strong family history of it with early onset, be sure you explore the implications with the doctors with whom you consult regarding possible outcomes when considering any of your options, surgical or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:07 PM

I had an MRI 7-8 years ago...had bone spur on 3rd cervical vertebra which pinched the nerve to my arm. I got a shot of Cortisone right in the area to shrink the tissue. It helped a LOT, but I still have to be very careful about how I move my neck. I do this to avoid surgery.

I have no doubt this is not nearly the problem as a herniated disc...but maybe it's worth asking the doc about.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

Mine is a cervical disc, jacgui...

I'm gonna think long and hard on what to do here... I ain't jumpion' on no cuttin' table...

I gotta a good friend in Florida who is a good chiroprator... I'm gonna have a good talk with him...

I just read up a little on this an' it says that some folks get operated on and it don't help them... Others say they lose their voice... Hmmmmm, yeah, I'm thinkin' of Kendall here, fir sure...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM

Bobert

I had this in the lumbar region a few years back. I stayed away from the doctors and underwent quite a lot of chiropractic, together with complete rest, which solved the problem.

An orthopaedic consultant later told me that, if it hadn't been for the chiropractic I would have had to have that surgery, which can leave problems of its own, I believe.

All good wishes to you - I know how painful a herniated disc can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:56 PM

Next Wednesday, 10:30 a.m. (12:30 p.m. your time) for my MRI, Bobert.

Iffen it's a herniated disk couldn't you just be fitted up with truss or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:52 PM

Turns out that I won't be gettin' the MRI 'til early next week but...

... I did see the doc and he is 90% certain that it's gonna show a herniated disc and if so he wants to...

...yeah, cut me up, remove the sumabich and graft two vertibrea (sp?) together...

Gonna have to read up on this stuff yo see if there are any alternatives...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM

Good luck, pal.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

I'll shave, dangit...

BTW, what kinda girls did you date in college that gave you "beard burn"...

Nevermind... I get it now... Naughty little boy, weren't you...lol...

Off to Winchester...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:11 PM

He don't shave all that close and I get beard-burn easy. Just ask some of the girls I dated in college.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:04 PM

Party Pooper. Poop Head. WHY not???? We LUVZ the Bobert!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:01 PM

Well, if I'm dancin' with Bobert it ain't gonna be cheek-to-cheek....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Skivee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:51 PM

Will that be clog dancin' or Irish Step?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 07:29 PM

Danged right, Rap...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:35 PM

Man, I ain't even HEARD from the doc about an MRI and I called yesterday.

We'll outlive 'em all yet, dude -- and dance on their graves.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:13 PM

Bobert...tell P vine that a divorce is cheaper than vehicular homicide even if it IS a Doc. Good luck, buddy. Hang in there. ONE more lousy day.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:10 PM

Well, well, well...

The MRI was a no-go... I couldn't get my head down as far as they wanted without #10 pain shootin' down my right arm...

So, tomorrow it's off to Winchester Hospital where, if I understand it right, some sumabich is gonna whop me upside the head with a Louiseville Slugger and then stuff me in the MRI...

Anyway, tomorrow oughtta be fun... Gonna see the specialist after I wake up and then at least I finally, fater 6 weeks of this crap, what it is that has me "seriously messed up"...

BTW, the P-Vine ain't all that patient... She's real steamed at my primary care doctor for lettin' this get this far along with no progress... I believe that if she were to see him crossin' the street in front of her that she'd floor it...

Sorry to have missed the last weddin', Rap... I own you one...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:32 PM

The babe didn't need a hip replacement, Rap. I love good news, don't you? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 12:29 PM

Dang it all Ebbie! You never have told us how the baby is.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 11:53 AM

hahhaha "P-Vine, the Patient" I love it.

My brother had a hip replacement last month and by phone to me he reports great progress. Not much pain, working hard at physical therapy, great plans for getting back to tournament horseshoe pitching.

Then I talked with his wife, and the story shades a little differently. She's been sleep deprived for two weeks because she's up with him every couple of hours, he gets huffy that "she just doesn't care", he doesn't understand why he has to remind her that it's time for his pain medication...

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 11:36 AM

Good thoughts going your way, Bobert. And I will light a candle for P-Vine, the Patient.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 11:30 AM

Today is the day for the MRI. I love those things- they are painless and detailed to the nth degree. Today you will get some answers. OK?

(fingers crossed for ya)

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:19 AM

The wedding is the next time October 6, 1973 comes around. Be glad to have you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 09:32 AM

Rap,

If yer lady wants to make an honest man outta ya, then I'll play... It hurts a little but I can play the geetar on my lap just fine and still play two drums and a high-hat with my feet...

When's the weddin' an, speakin' of guns, hope there ain't a Rap-to-be in the oven... Them weddin's can get right down nasty affairs, indeed...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM

Bobert, duz this mean you ain't gonna play at my weddin'?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:38 PM

Iffen you don't need no cuttin', just do what they tell ya.

Iffen they say you need cuttin', ask 'em why and git a second opinion. A good doctor won't care.

Iffen some guy says you need cuttin' cuz of what you did to his daughter, git outa there any way you can. Specially iffen he's got two er three big sons with him. Don't worry 'bout fightin' dirty, neither.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:05 PM

Yeah, I also noticed that she had my life insurance file out 'cuase she failed to put it back in the file cabinet...

Hmmmmmm??? I don't think she can collect if she has Mr. Clifford shoot me, can she???

I mean, that kinda stuff oughtta be against the law... But I ain't no lawyer...

Okay, now fir the latest, as if anyone really gives a flyin'....

(Man, doncha just hate old people... All they do is talk about their ailments...)

Okay, Thursday is the MRI and then Friday it's off to see a specialist in Winchester at the "Spine Center"... Think we'll ask Mr. Clifford to come along and bring his gun in case this specialist is a specialist in cuttin' folks when they don't need to be cut...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM

Bobert! Bobert! You okay? Bobert? Bobert??

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 05:34 PM

And you believed her?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 05:10 PM

The fox? Or the gun?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 04:16 PM

Well, I don't know what's going on... The P-Vine called Mr. Clifford this morning and tolt him that she'd seen what she thought my be a rabied fox and for him to bring his gun up... He's outside right now with it???

Danged....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:33 AM

How about his big end?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:20 AM

Bobert prob'ly needs a new rear end and a new Universal Joint.

Especially the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:32 PM

Either that, or her man in pain is gettin' so cantankerous he has about wore out her last nerve.

Hey guys, if either or both of you do go in for surgery and need any replacement parts, let me know. I got a big old 4WD 1979 Ford F250 sittin' out in the back yard that I'll be glad to strip for any parts you might need.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:17 PM

Geez, Bobert! She threatened to shoot you? Is she going for the "horse with the broken leg" remedy? Seems kind of like overdoing it to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 08:38 PM

Bobert, Pat's got her daddy's .45 Colt's revolver AND bullets. Worse yet, her daddy taught her to shoot and he was on the US Army's DC area pistol team. I really, really don't want to piss her off. Best I kin do is duck and cover and hide -- can't run worth nothin' right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 08:16 PM

The P-Vine an' Pat been talkin', Rap... Hide the ammunition... The P-Vine just today threatened to shoot me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 08:10 PM

Got to, Bobert. Ain't nobody else gonna, 'cepting Pat, and she's threatened to plumb kill me dead if I don't. But I could operate on you while I was sittin' down, see. Or the P-Vine could use the knife and I could tell her what to cut. Shucks, I could do that over the phone, no sweat.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 09:17 AM

Sheeet fire, Rap...

Sounds like you ain't gonna be up to operatin' on me either...

Knees is differenter than what I think I got... I think I juts got some nerves twistercated up in my armpit... Maybe got tangled up with a tenden 'er muscle 'er somethin'... But then again the P-Vine thinks I might have a buldgng disc in my back...

I'll know soemthin' this week...

You take care of that knee, ya' hear???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:56 PM

See, Bobert, I done had the shot. Man shot my knee with some freeze stuff to cool it down so's I wouldn't feel the needle much (and I didn't) and filled the knee joint up with a mixture of cortisone and lidocaine. Stuff looked like skim milk in the hypo. Felt like the joint was all full of liquid, which it was. Kinda like if you was a water balloon. Didn't really hurt any and he even put a bandaid on it. If you was nice you could probably git a Square Bob Spongepants bandaid or one of them kinds.

The shot took down the swelling and helped with the pain the swelling caused, but I still got trouble. Now in a week or so I gotta call him and arrange for an MRI and maybe surgery, if things don't git better instead.

Like I told Amos over in the MOAB, this has fixed it so I can't play my trumpet. That's cause I play the trumpet with my toes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:56 PM

Be looking fir 'um any day now, Tweezer... I'll have someone take the Regal down to the scrap yard... Maybe they can melt it down and make a new Chevette 'er somethin'...

Been readin' up on this stuff here in the innernet and looks like after the MRI Iz gonna get me a shot 'er two... Heck, if I had the cortizone I'd do it myeslf right here and now...

Where's my ice pack???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Tweed
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:29 AM

Well nevermind my long range diagnosis then but try the wind chime cure anyway.

And being as politically correct as I am, I think you should not burn your guitars but think GREEN and recycle them by sending them all down here to the sandbar. I will play them until my shoulder falls off like yores has and nurture them as if they was mine own. You can hang on to the Regal Reso though, as I have one with a serial number not far off from yores.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:09 AM

I appreciate that cure ya' got there Tweezer... I was thinkin' somethin' along them lines...

But, yeah, it's my right arm but I've always shot left handed 'cause my right eye don't see right... I also used to bat left handed when I thought I was gonna one day be a New York Yankee but I can bat rightie, too... Just can't hit nuthin' rightie either battin' or shootin'...

Thing that pisses me off the most is that I can't play no gitfiddle at all... Might az well burn them sumabiches with the seal blubber, right???

Nevermind...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Tweed
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 09:05 AM

It's the right arm Bobert?? The one you hold the 30/06 up against while shooting bears, bottles and other critters??

Bad Karma bro and this needs Reverse Karmic Reconsolidation Maneuvers.

First, remove the wood stocks from all your rifles and shotguns and burn them along with any of the bear's bones. Use a seal blubber accelerant to make sure everything is consumed and apply a liberal coat of the ash/blubber remains to your whole body, then string all the barrels and metal hardware into windchimes and on breezy nights, dance nekkid in the moonlight to the tunes it makes. This won't heal yore right arm but will keep anything from screwing with the left one.

As for surgury, I can't tell you nothin' as I am not keen on that either. Hope you gets better before you have to think seriously about that. I do know three of the local redneck hunters that I work with who've had to do rotor cuff surgury and I think it's got somethin' to do with recoil slamming into their armpits. I don't shoot, and I ain't had it and I've done the same work as they do for 28 years. Yas, yas, not very scientific but sorta makes sense in a motherwit way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:46 AM

What exactly is this "water" thing yer talkin' about, G??? You don't mean that stuff that the toilet, do ya??? Folks drenk that stuff???
Wow...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:28 AM

Bilhartsia is a water borne infection, so stick to the shine, and avoid drinking water Bobert.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:15 AM

Well, gol danged, Skivz... No wonder that bear looked so wored out when I shot him... I'd be wored out, too, if I had just swam all the way from Egypt...

Weren't much meat on the sumabich either... But what there was was mighty tastey...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Skivee
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:34 AM

Bobert, I think you're right about not needing them doctors to treat you.
I looked up your symtoms in my "Big Picture Book Of Medical Stuff" and I think I know what's going on. It's either a touch of Nile River Lung Worm, or you have Schistosomiasis Bilhartsia of the rotator cuff.
It's not real clear, but you mighta got one or t'other from eating uncooked bear meat from Egypt.
I'm sure the rest of my Muddoctor collegues will back me up.
Now that we cleared that up, just send a check for whatever you think is fair.
Here's hopin' you feel better soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:07 PM

Surgery should ALWAYS be a last resort. Hell, they're gonna cut into your body and probably cut something out of it! But don't reject it out of hand. It might be the only way.

By the way, the cancer my wife had is rarely treated by surgery these days. It certainly wouldn't be treated as hers was, with a radical dissection of the neck. But that was then and this is now and she's alive and I'm danged glad she is.