BS: Canadian Federal Election

Subject: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:30 PM

Another Canadian federal (national) election campaign is about to officially begin.

You know when it will end? October 14th. That's about 6 weeks from now.

My friends in the USA...think about it.

You see, we don't have to have an interminable fight with primaries all over the country for many months to start the damn thing off when we have an election. Our parties already have their party leaders in place, since a long time back usually, because party primaries are not even part of our election process. They are an inner-party process in each political party that occurs completely separately from federal elections. They normally involve only the one party that is choosing a new leader at that time, so there is no battle in the media to play off the different parties against each other. The new leader of a political party is chosen at a party convention, and he will be one of a number of already seated members of our parliament, normally speaking. This could happen at any time when the party membership (at the higher level) collectively decide in various meetings that it's time for a change of leadership. They might do it with an eye to preparing for some future election...or they might more often do it following a federal election which has given them a bad result, causing them to feel that the public hasn't much confidence in the party leader...so it's time to replace him with someone else.

At any rate, what we have here is a federal election campaign that lasts only six weeks and which does not necessitate our political parties tearing themselves to pieces internally with bitter infighting between different candidates who are vying for the top position while the main election campaign is underway.

Worth thinking about?

But you would have to change your present governmental setup radically and change your constitution also in order to alter your present system...a system which puts your entire government and society in a state of political crisis for at least a year, I've noticed, just so you can elect a new president. That means you effectively lose one out of every four years of stable government because of your election campaigns. Not very efficient use of time, is it?

We lose 6 weeks to our elections.

Man, it's time for a change allright...!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:33 PM

But you aren't the world's big boy, are you. nyah nyah nyah

*g*

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:38 PM

LOL

Say that aginn, Ebbie, and we're sending you Harper--for keeps.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

And thank God for that, Ebbie! ;-)

There's another contrast. Our prime minister is not seen as the kind of enormous, god-like, Great White Father presence leading the nation...the way Americans seem to see their president.

Nope. ;-) We see our national leaders in much more modest terms. He's just another danged politician, that's all. He's like a mayor or a governor. You know he's just temporary, just another guy in a suit, nothing to get too frantic over. Your presidents seem to become gigantic surrogate father figures for the whole nation, and I find that, frankly, quite odd. It smacks of the same kind of emperor status given to leaders like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Napoleon, Caesar....and that goes with being the world's big boy, doesn't it?

The sound of marching legions can always be heard echoing behind the American flag.

We have NEVER had anyone elected prime minister on the basis of his war combat record. We've never had anyone campaign on that basis either. It wouldn't be considered to have any relevance to him holding a civilian political office, because that's a completely different role in life from being a soldier.

Again, it starkly demonstrates the significant psychological differences between our countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:46 PM

Well, don't be too hasty. A lot of Canucks would sooner vote for Celine Dion... and she's in Vegas most of the time. BTW, keep her there, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

I got a Loonie here says Harper goes back in. Seriously.
Unfortunately.

And a Twoonie says Frank MacKenna replaces him. Fortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

I think he's reasonably likely to get back in, mainly because the Liberals have not been able to come up with a party leader who makes much of an impression on the Canadian public. Dionne seems like a nice man, but he's not the type who wins elections. He just gives a weak visual impression.

So, if that happens and Harper wins again, there will probably be a Liberal leadership convention within a few months after the election, and they'll replace Dionne with someone else.

I hope it's another minority government.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

Minority... YES PLEASE!!!

Stevie Deux is definitely weak in the visual and in the vision. He proposes a new tax and does not explain it clearly. Then, because he CANNOT explain it, he waters it down and tries to save face... weak ain't the word. Pathetic is more like it... shot himself in the foot at the wrong time and Stevie One knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:06 PM

I'll take that Loonie, gnu. I think it'll be a minority Liberal government. So, you be on.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:08 PM

Either way...a minority is good.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM

Hmmmm... Liberal minority?... interesting call. I would be up for that. But, what is Jack's take on the Carbon Tax? Or, is he like the rest of us who don't believe it's anything more than ass smoke?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:14 PM

They'll say whatever they think will get them votes. Once elected...they'll do whatever they were going to do anyway, but probably didn't bother to tell you during the election. ;-) This is how politics works everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:18 PM

Hell. Carbon tax my ass. That whole thing is a boondoggle. BS political posturing from leaders all over the world.

Uh, when you send me the Loonie, I'd like a short note with it explaining to me WHY the damned thing has eleven edges. I mean, what's the signiffiganse/signifaganse/signifigence meaning, ya know?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Den
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:19 PM

Yeah, my money is on another minority government. Could someone please offer Harper US citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM

Anyone who votes for Harper may have trouble to shit because their arsehole will be in Ottawa. Hoefully it will be planted somewhere other than 24 Sussex Drive!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM

Peace was had at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.

Just thought I'd let you know as I won't be sending YOU a Loonie.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:34 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:35 PM

Make it a nickel instead. Tickle the beaver on the obverse and the Queen smiles.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:51 PM

You guys should have Proportional Representation.

I know! I know! Ontario through the idea out, and I would have voted agin it m'self if I was living there still. The version they tried to sell you was a bad 'un, but there are other PR systems which work better.

The one we have in Wales isn't perfect but it's made for a whole lot more balanced Assembly, in terms of political parties, gender, etc. Much more consensual than the 'yah-boo' politics of Westminster.

Of course, being politics, it's still a long way from being 'open and transparent' but I'd never want to go back to first-past-the-post voting again. (Except when I have to for UK parliament.)

So ... would a Liberal gov't overturn some of the Arts funding cuts we've been talking about on 'Cat?

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:53 PM

I think they would in Canada, Sian.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:59 PM

Nope... there would be more funding for the arts but it would be on strange shit, like buying paintings by foreign artists for too much money for the national gallery. Read Jean's book, "Straight From The Heart".

They seem to fund strange shit. I've seen it at art galleries. Garbage... literally... an exhibition of garbage presented in 3D "picture frames". $300k for garbage.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

It's they way they do things.... if you are good and have sommat to contribute, you don't get the $$$. You don't need it.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:27 PM

Number one platform issue, seems to ne:

"I want a majority , so I can do what I want without those weak- kneed parlimaentary folks on the other side getting in my way.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:34 PM

In Canada, there are no Putin-likr photos of the great leader shirt-free, fishing or shooting.

Nor are there the USA type Disney fairy-tales of how the fearless leader represents that which they never represented in their career.

Canada has mostly "policy" BS promises from all sides. The stuff that no one really believes would be implemented anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:09 PM

The choices are clear. We have Stephen Harper , who is atrocious, flagitious, grievous, monstrous, bad, sinister, corruptive, perversive, pestiferous, demonic, diabolic, diabolical, fiendish, hellish, infernal, satanic, unholy, despicable, ugly, vile, slimy, unworthy, worthless, wretched, devilish, diabolic, diabolical, mephistophelian....

...and Stephane Dion, who is... ...drear, dreary, dry, dull, humdrum, irksome, monotonous, stuffy, tedious, tiresome, uninteresting, wearisome....

...oh gosh, back to bed!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Beer
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:22 PM

Dead on John. lol.
I have always voted and will continue to do so. I have never won the party I voted for. So if my continued luck prevails I must vote for Stephan Harper.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:13 PM

Man, my vote has been the kiss of death, 100%! I should keep out of it.

Hey, are the Neo-Trotskyite Green Vegans running again? Have they had another schism with the Neo-Ochre Lenin-ite Natural Law-ists?

That's the main fun of Canuck elections... ...six parties at the bottom of the ballot you've never heard of!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:48 PM

I have almost never voted for a winner. ;-) But, hey, there's always a first time, right?

John, you have summed up our prime ministerial choices quite well, I think.

If only William Shatner would return home, run for the Liberals, and lead the country "where no man has gone before"!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

zzzzzzzz. Whazat? OH, Harper elected again? Well what did you expect. Let me go back to sleep again. zzzzzzz

No opposition here in Alberta.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 11:38 PM

Is it time to change idiots?

bob

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:18 AM

Jimmy Carter was the first winner I ever voted for- took a long time. Most of the time I just made a protest vote. Except for Nixon. His first time, when he lost. By the next time I knew better, OK?

Do you think that the main reason that Canada's elections are fairly dispassionate is traceable to the fact that each candidate and each party knows there is a reasonable doubt that they will be in office very long?

I do truly, truly wish we in the US had the option of giving a 'No Confidence' vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:54 AM

I think it was Kim Campbell's government that fell in less than a year (six months?), Ebbie. She was the first and only woman PM we've ever had.

I think in Canada we kinda feel it's a good thing to have the politicians in Ottawa for at least pert of the year because it gets them out of the provinces and territories.

Basically, a sex scandal in Canada lasts for tops one week. After that people write letters to editors and sorta say, "Shut up, already!" We are somewhat resigned to our politicians taking a little vig--but if it stays under a few ercent we tend not to complain. We too are thankful we don't get all the government we pay for. Once the election is over, we tend to forget about Ottawa until they do something outrageous. At least that's the way I see it.

All it takes i a major bill to be defeated in the House (of Commons) and the sitting government is thereby deemed to be unviable. So, we can have governments in power for five years, but then they MUST call an election. because it is the incumbents who call the election, they will choose a time that is adventageous to them perhaps due to folks being away on the construction hollidays--typically the last two weeks of July. Or maybe elderly people who would have great difficulty getting to a polling station due to bad winter weather, etc.

The system seems to work well. We end up with people voted in and others voted out. And income tax, the temporary measure brought in in 1917 to help fund the war, is still with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:16 AM

Peace.... wasn't there another PM in power for only a short time? Nine months or so? Fellah from out your way... Joe Somethin-er-other?? >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:06 AM

Kim Campbell holds a cupla records. Shortest term as PM, and biggest defeat for a ruling party. The latter record holds not just for Canada, but for all democratic countries in history! In other words, she was history's biggest flop!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:18 AM

gnu: Who is DiMaggio?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:45 AM

Canada is a country blessed in so many ways that it would be difficult, without recourse to much time and reflection, to enumerate them all. Of course it is not perfect, nor are its' politicians but Canada as a country does pay great heed to the concept of "civil" democracy.It is for this reason that I take exeption to the manner in which we so cavalierly brand our aspiring leaders with "labels" such as idiocy, tediouness, lacking charisma, and all around moral slackness. This kind of scurrilous political "analysis" does not good and much harm.It indicates a set reaction to national dialogue rather than a reasoned weighing of the issues and the facts at hand.
Mr. Harper may be called diabolical and Mr. Dion as dreary, but neither is true. These accusation are merely the result of lazy thinking or, worse still, no thinking at all.
Dreariness and imagined diabolic intent are not the national issues and if we persist in this adolescent assesment of things we will be shortchange ourselves and diminish our democratic process.
   If Canada is to have an election, let's insist on issues rather than glib insults and malignant generalizations on Politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 09:01 AM

I've interviewed (and chatted with) both Stephen Harper and Stephane Dionne and found them to be courteous and informative. Harper was running the National Citizens' Coalition at the time and found an hour to talk to two visiting British academics. He impressed my very left wing colleague as having sensible and practical ideas for the future of Canada. I've always liked Dionne's candour, especially his response to me asking him if Canada would care about the issue of Quebec independence if there were no provinces to the east of Quebec - 'no', he said, 'it probably wouldn't. I'm with Guest HiLo on the way in which people who presumably have never met them, slag them off unmercifully.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:17 AM

Terry... could you ring Stevie Deux and ask him to explain his Carbon Tax clearly, including how it will be implemented and what resources will be utilized or created to do so?

And, as for Stevie One, could you ask him why we are killing people in a religious and civil war far away?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:41 AM

Oh dear... sorry about that. Disregard that little rant and I'll get me coat. I'll be back if I have something I think is a bit comical.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

Gnu -that's OK! I was expecting some vitiolic responses to having confessed that I found both men rather human, particularly Dionne. One of the great things about Canadian politics is how approachable and easy to talk to your politicians are, and the way that they slide easily back into 'normal' life after leaving politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:06 PM

Hi Kids:
I have to agree that Canada is blessed in so many ways. I loved Pierre Trudeau's boldness & charm, had his brother over to my home for tea, and survived 1971 on a LIP Grant...So Thanks Canada...

Mr. Harper and his fellow politicians may be decent, honorable, and even well intentioned...

It's just that when I look around, I see a number of things that puzzle me. Go to any corner store and count how many lotteries there are...Where does this money go? Is everybody paying enough taxes out there? Are you paying enough for gas? Would you like to pay more?

Hospitals...They are running around like squirrels over there(I just got out of the Lakeshore)...Talk to a few nurses and ask them if they are doing enough hours...
They NEED help...

When I was in the emergency room, there were 43 people waiting. The time was 7:15p.m. Around 11p.m. somebody came out and told us there was ONE Doctor on duty. I sat there until 10:30a.m., THE FOLLOWING MORNING...When the Doctor saw me, the conversation ended with him saying, "sorry about the wait..." A GOOD man being overwhelmed...

I went to downtown Montreal yesterday, working on my film, saw the St. James Church and thought it would be cool to get some pictures of the inside...When I did get inside, I discovered the upper floors had been converted into a mission for the homeless...

Seeing that, and getting a flashback of my room-mate in the hospital. A good, funny man with 4 houses in the $400,000-$500,000 range...

The DIFFERENCE between the Have's & Have Not's has always concerned me...I'm sure Mr. Harper will never have to go to a food bank or wait for his Welfare cheque...

And then we have Funding for the Arts...Yeah, yeah, I know about some of the programs...

So when I used the phrase, "changing idiots", I guess it was in frustration at the many years of watching what was being done, and thinking what COULD have been done with a new leader who is bold and fearless, who isn't caught up in the politics, but whose heart is focused on the humanity of it all...

Will that Man or Woman who could provide REAL LEADERSHIP, EVER be allowed to get in the game and get past the POLITICS of it all? My mind goes back to that Bible movie where the king has stored up all the grain and the people are starving, and the Hero kicks down the door, takes an axe and slashes the wooden kegs to let the grain flow so that the hungry could eat. Let us hope we can reach for higher ground...


bob

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM

RYAN...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfgLBMmtVs
bob

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:27 PM

I'd like to know why cuddly Stephen Harper is in love with Bush and Cheney's administration.

Canadian politicians are approachable becuse Canadians are approachable. To somehow confuse anything said about Harper as a slur against Canada is lazy thinking. He's your Prime Minister. NOT mine. I would die defending this country, but I wonld not to defend some political wannabes who kowtow to the US and ITS policies. Capiche?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:03 PM

We are normally not asked to die for our political leaders, at least not that I am aware of.
As for disparities between have and have not. I agree that this is an issue of real concern as it taxation, health care, education, I include the arts here, and many other social issues. Over the years Canada has improved and enhanced many of its social programmes so that more and more people are covered by them. Is it enough, propably not but these are complex issues and throwing money at them or reminding people that Mr. Harper has never been to a food bank does not cast any great light on the issue. That approach is mere darkness Visible.
   Generally, I think people are far more tired of ill informed skeptics than they are of politicians.
    If we are truly dedicated to improving the lot of our fellow citizens we must first inform ourselves as to the real issues..then, and only then, can we insist that our political leaders lead us, not follow us, to where we wish to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

'Canadian politicians are approachable because Canadians are approachable?' No - British people are also'approachable' (and so are Americans in my experience) but our research was a comparative study of the Canadian and British Conservative parties and how they could come back from traumatic election defeats.We found it very easy to talk to people at the highest level in Canada (Liberals as well) and virtually impossible to talk to anyone of any importance in the British party - Oliver Letwin grudgingly gave one us us fifteen minutes.

Oh and by the way, for the Canadians in this thread, it was your tax dollars we were spending, so a belated thank you!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM

There's a modesty about Canadian politicians that I find refreshing, Terry, so I know what you're talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 01:25 PM

"Kim Campbell holds a cupla records."

Let's not be too hard on poor ol' Kim - remember who she was following! It would have taken a superhuman to keep the Tory boat afloat in the circumstances.

(Jean Chretien: "Kim Campbell's got herself a summer job!")

-------------------------------------------------

"it was your tax dollars we were spending"

And you are more than repaying us with your observations here, so the thanks go both ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM

I went looking for that pic of Kim with her judge's robe down, exposing her silky white shoulder while that smoldering come hither smile and piercing eyes tormented red blooded... uh... sorry... but I didn't find it. I found this chuckle.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:57 AM

Kim inherited the legacy of Brian Mulroony. She didn't stand a hope in hell of getting re-elected but it wasn't all her fault. She was just a skapegoat for what may have been the worst government in Canadian history, up until at least Harpers bunch of boneheads!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:09 AM

Hear, hear, Sandy.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:39 AM

I actually met Kim Campbell, soon after her defeat; she was given the world's cushiest job, by the Liberals! Canadian Consul in Los Angeles. A great way to sink into anonymity! She was amiable and pleasantly informal.

Still, she did set herself up to be a figure of fun! Brian Baloney handed her the hot potato, and headed south. But she took it!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM

My father-in-law, who died a few years ago at 82, said of every PM that made it to office since the fifties: "He's no Diefenbaker!"

And meant it.

Anyone else old enough to remember those vigorously shaking jowls and curly white head?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM

Dief the Chief? Oh, yeah , , , ,

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM

Joe Clark?

Seriously... the man turned into Dief. Even the mannerisms, especially the jowl shaking. I figured he was doing it on purpose and I was taken aback. Of course, so was he.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: meself
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:42 AM

"Anyone else old enough to remember those vigorously shaking jowls and curly white head?"

Reporter: Mr Diefenbaker - Mr Pearson said that you looked like an old owl in the House today ...

Dief: You can tell Mr Pearson that I don't give a hoot!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:46 AM

Saskatchewan does that to people.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:18 PM

Turns them into owls? Good to know.

I wish Joe Clark had had a longer run at being PM. I wish Robert Stanfield had been PM for a while. I wish Brian Mulroney had moved to the US before ever winning his first election.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

Diefenbaker was a great orator. He was best in opposition where his indignant speeches kept the government of the day on it's toes. Debates between him and Jack Pickersgill went on daily, with no prisoners taken. When he formed the government the table was turned and Pickersgill was a real thorn in his shoe. Tommy Douglas could shut them both up though by using wit, a milder manner, and common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:13 PM

From what I read of them, IMO, the most honourable Canadian Prime Minister was John Thompson.

He "set an example of unmatched personal honesty, modesty, selfless devotion to public service and was a devoted family man."

Too bad his place in history was minimized by a sudden early death, while still in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:58 PM

"Canada is free and freedom is its nationality." - Wilfred Laurier

Laurier was a great believer in individual freedom, and in separation of church and state. There are some who think he was an atheist, but there doesn't seem to be any real evidence of that.

When I was around ten, I used to regularly encounter a very elderly neighbour who liked to tell me anecdotes about local and national history. It was he who told me and my friend where to look along the creek bank and in the adjacent field for coins or buttons and other bits dropped there by the English overland assault force on Louisbourg when they camped there for a few days.

Once he told me about being brought as a child, by his father to meet Laurier, and how kindly Laurier spoke to a shy little boy. He very much admired Laurier, and thought him to have been our greatest PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:28 PM

Sorry to be pedantic, Bee, but it was 'Wilfrid.'

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

DOES the honourable member have a QUESTION?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:57 PM

Yes! How do you get a dog to stop barking?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:20 PM

If those last two posts were directed at me, sorry..........couldn't help it. By the way, I think it's spelt 'honorable' in English English.

Time to get out of this one, I think!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:26 PM

Oops! Terry - I knew that, too - I'll blame it on the cat between me and the keyboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM

Heh! No, that wasn't aimed at you, Terry. I really want to know...how do you get a dog to stop barking?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM

Does that mean that "the honorable" is a bit short on honour? :-}

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM

Who the heck IS there to vote for? This is grim, imo.

(I live in an area that is represented by a Conservative MP and he is excellent despite BEing a Conservative.)

How I vote in Alberta will not really affect the results of the election, but having the right to vote is a cherished privilege from my pov, so I have to vote. It's gonna end up being another minority government (either Liberal (and they ain't looking too good in the polls, or Conservative).


So, who has some ideas? Is there still a Communist Party, Marijuana Party, Green Party, Frequent Flyers Party, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM

Good luck on a decision, Peace. Me, I get to choose among Peter Mackay, Elizabeth May, and Louise Lorefice. Louise stands little chance of winning Central Nova, unless having Pete and Liz in the same space causes an anti-matter explosion.

Peter's obviously out of the question, the weaselly crocodile tear crying backstabber. Elizabeth has at least gentled down the Green party, which was beginning to look like they were just about to order their Brown Shirts when she took over, and Elizabeth herself has become more sane as she's aged (family was... a little eccentric, to put it kindly), but nobody in Margaree would ever forgive me if they found out I voted for her. Louise of the NDP it is, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:59 PM

One of many reasons to worry about this election.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1049464033397_20?s_name=&no_ads=

"Steve" as George calls him has been very soft-spoken during his minority-hood. But if he ever gets full control, watch out. It'll be Lyin' Brian all over again.

Peace, we get lots of weird little parties out here, but I'm not sure they run too many candidates. A lot of them seem like 5 guys and a cooler of beer. Who later fight and split their 5 votes 3 ways!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: bobad
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

If the Rhinos are running in my riding (highly unlikely) I will vote for them because their platform is usually the most sensible but otherwise it will be either the Greens or NDP.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:18 PM

Oh, OK, I'll stay here. Gnu - interested in your comments on Peter Mackay - we were told by a Tory senator and a couple of PC 'backroom boys' that he was the coming man, probably the man to bring them out of the wilderness.

And Peace, yup, that's always a problem - some politicans are better and more human than their party. We get them like that over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:40 PM

Kim on Lester:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/series/primeministers/stories/lbp-2002

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM

Peace, I think the main reason to vote is just this: vote strategically to help insure that there is another minority government (whoever the heck it turns out to be). They're much less dangerous and much less arrogant when they have to govern from a minority position.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM

What's the deal with this ?

http://www.planetearthpeaceparty.com/2007/07/did-you-know-canadas-prime-minister-stephen-harper-plans-to-reduce-greenhouse-gas-e

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:49 PM

It has been said by some old Tories that Peter's word "ain't worth the napkin that it's written on." Many have not and perhaps will never forgive him for the sell out to Harper. Many women will never forgive him for his dogfight with Bilinda in the commons. The apex of his career will pass with this parliment and his future is in great doubt. I don't think he will ever get much closer to 24 sussex Drive than the sidewalk.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:20 PM

Ed T, it looks like some kind of advert site to me: slap a single article down and pretend you're a palnetary movement... indeed.

Terry, if the backroom boys are thinking that way, it will only end in tears for 'em. As Sandy notes, very few people trust MacKay, particularly in the Maritimes, where he grandstanded his true colours by conniving and backstabbing and selling out to Harper in a big way - look up the Orchard affair.

Sandy, I was neither a fan nor a hater of Belinda , but Mackay's behaviour over that affair made him look foolish, vengeful, and ignorant as well.

I really would love to see the man lose his seat, especially if it was to Louise Lorefice. He's the kind of man who would find that humiliating indeed.

And whaddaya know, the Orchard affair made Wikipedia, only it's all placed in the more flattering light of polite party making history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Orchard

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:51 PM

Sorry, Bee, I didn't mean now - it was a few years ago, before Harper re-entered Parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:54 PM

". . . some politicans are better and more human than their party."

Well said.

I'd done a longish post that seems to have disappeared. Wasn't important. Just a little something to cheer us all up. It ended with ". . . and I despair for my country."

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:14 PM

". . . some politicans are better and more human than their party."
Bill Casey is a fine example of this statement. However such as he are considered non-conformists or loose canons by the party and are quickly dumped if they don't toe the line.
Bill Casey

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:28 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald - PM
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:18

Oh, OK, I'll stay here. Gnu - interested in your comments on Peter Mackay.....

*************************************************************


Huh? I switched to Bud Lite so I think I don't know what you are talking about...??? Do I ... or maybe not?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:38 PM

Gnu, the Bud Clydesdales were in the Maritimes recently. Were you able to get any of that stuff direct from its source? :-}

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:41 PM

Better than the shite being spewed from the TV these days, Sandy!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:52 PM

LOL gnu!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:31 PM

"Better than the shite being spewed from the TV these days, Sandy!!! "

Pardon me if I take issue with my friend on this. The shite from a horse is a mixture. The shite from tv is pure!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:14 AM

Animal Alliance Environment Voters Party of Canada
Bloc Québécois
Canadian Action Party
Christian Heritage Party of Canada
Communist Party of Canada
Conservative Party of Canada
First Peoples National Party of Canada
Green Party of Canada
Liberal Party of Canada
Libertarian Party of Canada
Marijuana Party
Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
neorhino.ca
New Democratic Party
Progressive Canadian Party
Western Block Party

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:16 AM

Yer gonna need the BIG dartboard, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:26 AM

I noticed there's a Neorhino Party. Ya know, Bee, that leaves the alternative: a Retrorhino Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:02 AM

Peace, I think we should all just have a party - price a' beer always goes up after an election, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:23 AM

Gnu, sorry! I meant Bee's comments about Mackay. I blame the bottle of Merlot we'd drunk with dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 07:04 AM

The Merlot Party?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 08:26 AM

Another perspective:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/09/05/robert-fulford-sarah-palin-and-canada-s-election-about-n

Check out his article on The Creation Museum ( April 04, 2008) on the same site.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:07 AM

Ed, you're wasting electrons. Just seeing that a link points to a National Post opinion (or "news") article pretty much negates the necessity of reading it to know what's in it. (OK, I'll look anyway, just curious what kind of a blowhard Fulford is these days).

I saw the first Tory TV election ad this morning...at about 7 a.m., Eastern time, an hour before he's supposed to see Mme Jeane. Seems a tad illegal to me even if today is the day. It used the slogan (approximately): "Canada: It's better with Harper" (eek) but the creepiest thing was the lip-syncing didn't seem to quite match up to how the far ends of his lips were moving in a quite unnaturally animated fashion...

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:31 AM

Ed T, the link didn't work for me, but I guessed this is the article? (If this link works)

If so, it seems mostly to be a whine about how none of our political leaders are capable of making a speech as rousing as Sarah Palin. I'll agree, they mostly are pretty dull speakers. On the other hand, I don't want leaders whose speeches are only militant cheerleading, which IMO was all there was to the speech written for Palin.

Fulford mostly sounds desperately bored with politics.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/09/05/robert-fulford-sarah-palin-and-canada-s-election-about-n

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM

Sunday morning...I finish my croissant & coffee and look out my window at a day that is overcast but filled with joy as I reflect on life up to now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7_a2wa2dd4&feature=related
Thanks Canada...Worry Pas...bob

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:03 AM

Robert Fulford: Sarah Palin and Canada's election about nothing
Posted: September 05, 2008, 6:00 PM by Kelly McParland
Robert Fulford, Full Comment, canadian election

Rudy Giuliani said the other night at the Republican convention that the United States is heading into the most important election of our time -- meaning, I'm guessing, the most important since 1980, which installed Ronald Reagan as president. Others, Democrats as well as Republicans, have made the same point, though of course for different reasons. No doubt you'll hear that notion expressed often between now and Nov. 4.
On the other hand, there's little danger that anyone in Canada will make a similar remark about our own fall election. All to the contrary, in fact: The Canadian election planned for October may well be among the least significant events in living memory.

What, after all, is at stake? Nothing, so far as I can tell. It feels like an election to nowhere, the electoral equivalent to the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" in Alaska that was authorized in a feckless moment by the U.S. Congress, finally defeated, and is now reduced to a metaphor representing outrageous waste.

The Canadian events of the last year have demonstrated that the Prime Minister, with his present minority caucus, can get just about anything from Parliament that he asks. But he wants more, an election that will give him a majority and eliminate the bother of facing the voters for another four years. It's a pre-emptive strategy, what medicine calls a prophylactic measure, an election to forestall an election. Better now than next year, when times may be tougher.

On the other hand, if you believe the Prime Minister's suggestion that he may well end up with another minority, then the whole exercise has even less meaning. In that case, he's calling it just for the hell of it.

The other parties show no signs of the kind of originality that might give the election meaning. The Liberal leader, who has already started his campaign, has bet heavily on his plan for saving the environment with a carbon tax that nobody else in Canada even pretends to understand. (Don't worry. He's changing it anyway.) New Democrats this time have even less to say for themselves than usual. The Bloc Québécois gives every sign of going into hibernation. The Green party now has an MP but not much else.

From this standpoint, it's hard for a Canadian to avoid a certain jealousy when contemplating American politics. Sarah Palin, when accepting the Republican vice-presidential nomination, gave a speech that was spirited, irony-charged and totally coherent. She didn't write it, of course, but she caused it to be written, she agreed to it, she embraced it and she delivered it with style, intensity and poise. Her superb pacing suggested she was born for this job and her remarks were sharp and sharply delivered: "Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; [Barack Obama's] worried that someone won't read them their rights."

An attractive and good-humoured defiance coloured her acknowledgement that she's an outsider: Referring to a major gaffe of Obama's, she said that "in small towns we don't quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren't listening."

American liberal journalists condescend to her as an unknown and inexperienced governor from Alaska, a minor state that seldom figures in politics. But what she did for 40 minutes on Wednesday night put her in a class with the most accomplished American politicians. Certainly her approach is more impressive than the rambling, woolly speeches of Joe Biden, the much more experienced vice-presidential candidate of the Democrats.

As for Canadians, our media have for the most part treated her as a joke. But I don't think there's even one major political figure in Canada who could give a speech as articulate and memorable as hers.

Her leader, John McCain, resembles Barack Obama in only one obvious way: Both of them are astonishingly assured political performers. This year, the presidential primary system, which sometimes felt endless and often seemed pointless, in the end produced two leaders who represent the best of their parties, each of them in an unexpected and creative way. In fact, the four presidential and vice-presidential candidates encompass an astonishing range of abilities, attitudes, personality and experience. Put them together with the platoon of candidates from both parties who ran in the primaries and they add up to a corps of national politicians that any democracy, especially Canada, could well envy.

National Post
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:10 AM

The main difference I see in USA-Canada politics is that Canada actually has an opposition... with a real opposition leader throughout the entire government's term.

Unless the USA president really screws up (imo, aka Bush) the USA President mostly rules with minimal opposition.

I suspect there are some Canadian politicians who would orefer the USA style approach, with little opposition and total confidence in their leadership through the mandate.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:38 AM

"From this standpoint, it's hard for a Canadian to avoid a certain jealousy when contemplating American politics"

YEH, RIGHT!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:39 AM

Yes, Ed, as exasperated as we may get with our government, our system means we can get rid of 'em if we really want to, at any time. The US system seems to leave people really helpless for four years at a time and the President seems able to do whatever he wants, may as well have a dictatorship.

BTW, I just heard part of a speech by Elizabeth, and have to say she didn't sound too bad. Still don't want to rile up the Margaree-ers, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM

Seems like a "fixed date" to me?

Elizabeth seems to support Bill Casey?
Any possibility she is looking for an independant
member to turn green? I suspect Casey is smarter than that.

Surprising supporters flocking to Bill Casey
Danny Williams, Rodney MacDonald and the Greens all pledging support
By MARY ELLEN MacINTYRE Chronicle Herald
Sat. Sep 6 - 5:06 PM

Bill Casey, the long-time Conservative and now independent MP for Cumberland Colchester, was setting up his campaign headquarters in Truro on Friday, in anticipation of an election call by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.        

Politicians from inside and outside the province are lining up to support the Nova Scotia MP who voted against his own government last year.

Bill Casey says he's surprised to win the endorsement of Elizabeth May, leader of the Green Party of Canada.

"I'm very pleased to hear Ms. May has endorsed me, but I am going to run in the next election as an independent," Bill Casey said during an interview at his campaign headquarters in Truro.

"I have been involved with a lot of environmental issues in my constituency and I'm proud of my involvement. But that's what it's all about: If there's something wrong, you have to fight to correct it."

Support has also come Mr. Casey's way from points east. A spokesman for Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams said Friday that the premier would help the MP if asked.

"The premier has spoken directly to Bill Casey and has told him that he has his full support," Elizabeth Matthews, director of communications for Mr. Williams, said in an e-mail.

"Mr. Casey represents the kind of principled man of integrity who deserves to be elected in contrast to the federal Conservatives. Mr. Casey likely does not need assistance in campaigning, but if he asked the premier to assist he would certainly happily do so if his schedule permitted."

Also on Friday, Nova Scotia Premier Rodney MacDonald said he supports Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the federal Conservatives but will not be campaigning in Mr. Casey's riding out of respect for the MP.

Ms. May said Thursday that her party would not run a candidate in Cumberland-Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley. "I think Bill Casey is as Green as they come," she said. "He's an honorary Green anyway, because he's the kind of representative the people of Nova Scotia need to fight against Stephen Harper."

Mr. Casey has represented his riding since 1988, except for 1993 to 1997, when Liberal Dianne Brushett held the seat.

He shocked voters and onlookers last year when he voted against his own party's budget.

Believing the federal budget broke the Atlantic accords signed with this province and Newfoundland, Mr. Casey said he voted with his conscience. He was then kicked out of the Conservative caucus.

The Green party's decision not to compete against Mr. Casey follows a deal Ms. May struck with the Liberals in her own riding.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion travelled to Stellarton early last year to announce his party would not field a candidate in the Central Nova riding because he wants Ms. May to get elected.

Mr. Casey said he's a little nervous about running without the help of big political machinery and funding.

"This is really uncharted waters for me and I'll admit to being nervous, but I'm lucky I've got a track record," he said. "You have to have money to run an election . . . but I've got a lot of my old constituents behind me and a lot of new people, too."

The Liberal candidate in Cumberland-Colchester-Musquodoboit Valley is Tracy Parsons. The Conservatives have yet to announce a candidate.

With Devin Stevens

( [e-mail])

'Mr. Casey represents the kind of principled man of integrity who deserves to be elected in contrast to the federal Conservatives.'
elizabeth matthewsSpokeswoman for Newfoundland Tory Premier Danny Williams

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM

Fulford calls this a nothing election. I think he writes about nothing very well.

**********************************************

Harper has to see how badly he's stepped on his crank. He'll need the voting stats of the coming election to plan for the one after that. I do not like Harper necause he too readily adopted the 'Canada in Afghanistan' plan with Nato. Recall that the US was doing its best under Bush to control Nato and the UN. Canada was severely slapped on its economic wrist in let us know that our non-participation in the "Coalition of the Willing [Keriste what a name!]" was both noticed and disapproved of by Washington. Our government should have at that point responded with a friendly but pointed "Get stuffed!"

There was a time we Canadians seemed to have a common purpose as Canadians. I think over the last five decades we have sold that attitude piece-meal to corporate structures and weakened our nation as a result--NAFTA comes to mind. We need a leader who will campaign and stand with his/her speeches and then follow through on the details. Someone who will re-focus our innervisions for this beautiful and wealthy country. Certainly the children of the poor do not dine at the same table as the various VIPs and CEOs. We have lost part of the dream, and now we even think about privitization of health care because the cost is too much. Bullshit! The system is inefficient, not health care.

Trudeau was I think influenced by the writings of Mao Tse Tung (Mao Zedong), and during those years he was PM, there did seem to be a growth in our socialist aspect, but more importantly, we seemed to question our politicians more.

Back then I wrote a letter about something or other and sent it to the PM's office. I got a reply that mentioned the issue I'd addressed. For many years now my letters have been answered with "Dear Occupant, your concerns are important to us." And that's the end of it. Sheesh.

We need spirit back, the will to do good for our people and those needing help elsewhere. We need our balls back. We do nothing for our national self-image when we become yes folks for corporations and foreign governments. Unless our goals as Canadians are clear and transparent (sp?) then we are ripe game for others to manipulate. There's too much shit going on behind closed government doors, and I don't like it. (Fell free to tell your friends.) We need back the Pearsons and Diefs, the Trudeaus and the Chretiens. Leaders who spoke what was on OUR minds. We ain't always 'done' right, but we'd always tried to. Why did we stop trying? Why are our soldiers invested more and more in quasi peace keeping missions when there are so many other places that would benefit from this country's expertise in the matter?

I* want my country back: want it taken away from corporate interests that influence Ottawa and the direction we as a people take. And that would require a leader who isn't even on the radar yet.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:07 AM

Seems interesting that many folks (media included) resort to focusing on USA politics when events on the "Canadian election front" get boring.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:41 AM

This election is only boring if you don't much care about the direction the country is taking. I am woefully underinformed at the moment, but there's nothing like a federal election for getting Canadians to sit up and take notice.

Fulford, for example, writes for a right wing newspaper that IMO has an unhealthy school-girl crush on the American right wing. They see the success of the Republicans and are envious. I'm glad our CBC, and even CTV, are more even-handed in dishing the dirt on all and sundry (though there are those who'd disagree with me).

Bill Casey is much respected in Nova Scotia, pretty well by everyone, regardless of party.

Peace, your sentiment, "I want my country back" reminded me: I have the lyrics somewhere (cain't find nothin' when I want it) to a song which includes the chorus line "We owe it to the pioneers to take our country back". It's a Canadian folk protest song from maybe the seventies? I may have asked about it in the Music section here. Must look.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 11:47 AM

And here it is, by Tamarack, "We Owe it to the Pioneers".

http://www.mystrands.com/track/1365756

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:22 PM

Ed T... "...elizabeth matthewsSpokeswoman for Newfoundland Tory Premier Danny Williams"

Danny b'y! Yeeees.

Buddy b'y! Me zon, me zon, me zon. Dat dere is whot we needs eh. We needs a Newf upalong eh. Not some pot-ash 'ead from da land a tar n beef whot don't gotta pay no sales tax fer nuthin an t'inks dat 'is 'eritage began where da great plains begins eh. And sure as dere's shit in a goose dere be no need fer some feller from Uppity Canada whot is so smart even 'e dunno whot 'e's got in is gob when 'e's shovin some new fangled tax up de arse a de average Garge eh.

Now buddy. If we 'ad a Danny B'y oneIsea, 'e'd at least pick da bones outta da fish afore he tried ta shove it down da t'roats a da votes eh!!! An 'e wouldn't let no 'b'y freeze ina dark eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:24 PM

He has a way with words does gnu . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:32 PM

Bee said:

"Fulford, for example, writes for a right wing newspaper that IMO has an unhealthy school-girl crush on the American right wing".

Maybe true, (I don't follow the bloke). But maybe it depends on your perspective.

Regardless, I welcome most, if not all, all viewpoints, if interesting, regardless of a persons opinions on one or more issue.

IMO, just about anyone can come up with something to "stimulate or entertain" my perspective on the many issues at any point. I try and limit closing my mind out to folks, just because of a perceived "brand" someone tagged on them.

Who has the answer on all issue? I haven't met that person yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM

During the last election, liberal folks tried to scare voters that Harper was scary to vote for. Truth is, he wasn't while in power.

Now the conservatives try to scare voters that Dion is scary to vote for.
There is likely a similar truth for this "red herring" message.

I. like many voters, will be seeking out issues and party perspectives, and will not be looking for the "boogey man" in any of the respected and responsible national Canadian leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:41 PM

BTW... I should state again... I am NOT a Newf... I worked construction all over NF and Labrador for the best part of 30 years and met as many amazingly wonderful and humorous and... people as I could have anywhere else.

I (try to) do a number of accents and dialects. From Newf to Labradorian to Lunenbuhhgah to Kent Co, NB Irish to southern NB Acadian Shaque to... but, the Newfie's are priceless for colourful speech. They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... I'd back 'n up on 'at one from whot I found come wit nare a t'ought, zir... like fallin offa log eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:46 PM

Um... did anyone mention or ask this yet? IF Stevie One gets a majority, would he be "better equipped" to (as has been stated above), ah, how to put this politely???... tell the Yanks to take their economic leverage and shove it? Or would he still kiss ass?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:49 PM

I hope that Stephen Khanda-Harper gets his ass kicked... that cuddly image doesn't fool me..... something very cold about that man...I'd like to see him out chopping brush with Bush or.....Bush with brush..

Stephane Dionne is about as charismatic and forceful as Kermit the frog, no pun intended

when Gilles Duceppe (Mr Cheese-head) starts to look good, you know we have a problem.... that's it, Quebec should separate and take the rest of Canada with it....

where's Romanow, Tobin, Clyde Wells, and Romeo Dallaire ? c'mon Justin, get your feet wet....

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

Most folks who live in fairly isolated places are at once quirky and hospitable. None more so than The Newfoundlanders I've met.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:07 PM

GUEST, bankley... "when Gilles Duceppe (Mr Cheese-head) starts to look good, you know we have a problem.... that's it, Quebec should separate and take the rest of Canada with it...."

Oh... if only all Canucks had the balls of the Quebecois... not the brains, of course. I know that most Canucks hate them for their "divisive nature" and see their "ploy" as just a way to get their own way and to get more than their fair share of the tortiere, but, ba'h jeeze oh eh, ya gotta give em their due for the spirit they bring.

Fair fight? Fuck that. A fight is a fight. If you are busy trying to read the rules and you get kicked in the nuts, you don't know the first rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM

Peace.... yees! When yer pearched on a rock in the middle of the North Atlantic, ya learn a few things about life... and how to live it.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: john f weldon
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:31 PM

Once again, a sad election where one must vote against, rather than for!
Harper is a conservative, and I use the word pejoratively.

Medicare, Arts Funding, everything wholesome that sets us apart from the Yanks will suffer.
Our tax system, thanks to Brian M is now incredibly regressive; George's pal Steve will only make it worse.
And he might even follow the Yanks into their next random military looniness.

It's easy to document all this; instead I'll tell a tale with a "personal" touch. Two years ago, my friend Torril Kove won the Oscar for best animated film, "The Danish Poet". She was, as a result, invited to a fancy "do", with Steve also in attendance. He came up to congratulate her.

Steve: "I'm eager to see the film."
Torril, proudly: "Well, it's an N.F.B. film..."
Steve looked horrified: "Oh..." (long pause) "...well, I'll... ..look at it anyway..."
...and scurried away.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:04 PM

The Newfie sense of logic is precious. They analize things differently and are able to look at things with much more common sense than many of us. My favourite Newfie story comes from a few years back when a CBC reporter was interviewing an old ferry captain.
Interviewer: "They tee me sir that you know where every submerged rock along this coastline is located."
Captin puffing on pipe: "Oh no, me son, I doesn't know dat; I just knows where dey isn't!"

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:07 PM

typo tee "tell"

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:25 PM

Oh dear, Ed...I can only conclude that you have been asleep the past two and a half years while Harper has bullied us deeper into the Afghanistan mess, tried to dismantle the Wheat Board, appointed, (after the useless Ms Ambrose couldn't meet even his low standards) that jerk Baird as our so-called "Minister of Environment" so he could lecture us and the rest of the world on how any serious attempt to address climate change would be bad (their plan is merely a bad joke), and recently savaged some very modest arts funding programs by the charming device of slandering a few recipients who made easy targets, while cancelling all the funding these programs provided to many deserving and uncontroversial Canadian artists who could have been getting worldwide exposure and thus helping our economy grow...wow that was a long sentence but it could go on if I didn't have to do something more productive today than pointing out Harper's shortcomings.

And I guess you have never read the National Post before today if you think their "Canada should be like the Republicans" editorial line is a matter of opinion.

We know how to keep our eyes on the prize and so does S Harper.
The only thing scarier than another Harper minority is, of course, a majority led by this "respected and responsible national Canadian leader."   We've seen how he treats those who disagree with him when he has a minority...

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM

Oh Lord, John - that says in a nutshell what's wrong with little Stevie - was he bottle-fed and never cuddled as a baby? Not allowed to play with others? Rejected by his schoolmates? He seems determined that ordinary people be given no opportunity to be creative, or have fun, or feel safe in that they won't die for lack of money or bad luck or ill health.

Ed T - obviously if I didn't read/listen to other perspectives, I wouldn't be able to have formed an opinion on 'em, now would I?

It's true I particularly dislike the National Post, partly because for quite a while a few years ago their specialty was insulting the intelligence, honesty, and work habits of the people of Atlantic Canada. I'd never pay money for one of their papers, but that doesn't prevent me form reading their opinion pieces.

Gnu - I heartily agree with you on the subject of Quebec. I'd certainly prefer they didn't separate (and don't think acheiving sparation would be good for Quebec's people), and it has been somewhat annoying to see Quebec occasionally get labour intensive projects (ship-building: don't get me started) that would have been a good fit for the maritimes, but if I was a Quebecois, I think I'd follow similar policies. I certainly don't hold it agin' 'em.

I worry more, politically, about the West, Alberta and British Columbia in particular. Alberta, although there are plenty of fine people out there, seems to harbour a lot of right wing politicians and far too many people willing to cast aspersions on people from here - except when they need all our trade workers.

And I just got my very first campaign call, from the NDP. Off we go...

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

Was it Jack? After his totally embarrassing reaction and blurb this AM, I suspect he should be looking for a new job. Good Lord, bring back Alexa... bring back Audrey... and let Jack off!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

The main concern that I have about Canadian elections is that a party can form a majority government with much less than majority support of the voters. Post Mulroney, the Tories were so weak that Chrétien had his way totally. He often bragged about his three majority governments but the lie was with the popular vote. Most Canadians voted against him! I fear that the NDP and the Greens will split the socialist vote allowing Harper to gain a majority without the consent of 50%+1 of the electorate. If the bastard ever gains control of the parliament that he seems to detest LOOK OUT! I really feel that the Greens and NDP should have had this resolved before Harper could roll the dice. With the left split in so many ways the right wing could overrule the wishes of the people and form a five year dictatorship. I hope and pray that it doesn't happen and that we send Harper to the shitcan of history!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

Bee,

maybe yes, maybe no:)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:11 PM

Sandy, though there's little hope of it happening, I would like to see the NDP and Greens merge. May has to some extent turned the Greens aside from the fanaticism they were beginning to show with their former leadership. The NDP has fallen far from its roots in many ways, particularly in their ability to understand rural Canada, and even in their relationship with labour. Alexa, whom I greatly admire for many reasons, nonetheless failed with rural Nova Scotians, and it was a local joke that the first federal NDP election sign was posted at the entrance to Dartmouth.

Ed T, over the years, I've voted for all three main parties both federally and provincially, though most often it's been the NDP. I vote issues and my personal political beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:44 PM

Sandy - that's the problem with the Westminster, first past the post, model for elections. No British government since the war has had a majority of the popular vote (even the 1945 Labour 'landslide' only achieved 49.5%)and on a couple of occasions the party with the most votes has had fewer MPs than their rivals. The result is that we usually get governmentents that stay in power for long periods (especially the Tories) on a minority vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM

Well Bee, there was always an internal debate within the NDP about sticking to founding principles verses appealing to more voters and this caused a shift towards the center. However the cost was high because most of the grass root workers were more socialist in their views (myself included) and they were turned off by by this pragmatism. Also there was a perception that organized labour was controlling the party and so the party executive distanced themselves from labour. In doing so they also distanced themselves from a large block of funding and the damage remains. The problem is that these divisions force us to swallow a more bitter pill. Years ago Tommy Douglas realized that he would never be Prime Minister but by sticking to his guns he was able to accomplish more than most leaders ever did. However Pearson was not the arsehole that we see today at the helm and diplomacy gave us the best government(minority) in Canadian history. The CPP and Medicare stand as a tribute to both of them but there is great pressure from the right undermine each of them. Oh but to have Douglas and Pearson again.............

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM

Yes Terry,
   We inherited the parlimentary system of Great Britain. I was a system designed for a two party world that hasn't existed for many years. The people who gain power have no desire to change a system that put them in power so it revolves time and again. True democracy is but a delusion, and we continue to elect dictators.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:58 PM

Sandy, we're a common sight, aging socialists lamenting the politicians of our youth - sad, ain't it?

I know a person (a very long time, very good friend) who has been a dedicated NDP worker in Nova Scotia for decades - she is a friend of Alexa's as well. We have had this conversation about the NDP many times. In fact, it is significant that I got an NDP campaign call this morning, since one of the complaints we have had in the last several federal elections has been that the NDP hasn't even bothered to campaign rurally, in spite of the fact that there has been considerable support for them here, which has been eroded by successive candidates ignoring us for the lush electoral pastures of downtown Halifax.

That said, anytime I have needed information or assistance with regard to government programs or activities, calling the NDP offices has been a sure route. One call, and eager people (not having to govern gives you the time, I suppose) will be digging out that information at lighning speed, and back with it in a flash. It's an attitude towards citizens that I really appreciate, and hasn't been matched by other parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

Bee there was a prayer that went something like this:
Lord, please grant me the power to change the things that I can change, the patience to accept the things that I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference.
I would like to say that it applies to me but I am still working on it!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: bankley
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM

hey gnu, I didn't mean the Quebanada thing in a bad way.... I voted PQ in'76 when Levesque first formed the gov't. The guy I voted for didn't win a seat.... but a lot of people were fed up with Bourassa, and there was just something about that chain smoking 'Ti Poile'

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

Bee,

I have also voted for all major parties. And, I am always open to different routes to solve similar problems, regardless of the side of the political (or other) board they come from.

From my experience, while parties tend to have ideological differences (especially at election time), when governing these differences tend to get very blurry. But, it has not discouraged me yet.

There have been many great politicians from all sides that have influenced real change. IMO, it is mainly because of the caliber of these people, not the parties they represent.

It does sadden me when I see good people (that could accomplish much) and back by tight political party (policy) discipline. Unfortunately, this seems to seem to be more of a current trend in Canada and less so in the USA.





I have also voted for all major parties. And, I am always open to different routes to solve similar problems, regardless of the side of the political (or other) board they come from.

From my experience, while parties tend to have ideological differences (especially at eletion time), when governing these differences tend to get very blurry. But, it has not discouraged me yet.

There have been many great politicians from all sides that have influenced real change. IMO, it is mainly because of the calibre of these people, not the parties they represent.

It does sadden me when I see good people that could accompolish much and back by tight political party (policy) discipline.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:14 PM

Sorry for the repeating material in the last post.

I bel;ieve it relates to a (cut and paste) spell check I did.
Just ignore the last repeating paragraph.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 05:26 PM

bankley... no worries lad... I dated more than my share of young Acadian lasses... I recall Maryse. Once, I told her I was leaving to get a haircut... she asked, "Which one?"

Boubou Macoutes pissed of a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:01 PM

What do you think about this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/09/elxn-fuel-tax.html

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:20 PM

Ed, I don't even know which plan makes more sense, but my attempt at reasoning it out goes as follows.

Harper's offer of a deisel tax reduction is typical of his solutions - it looks simple and fair at first glance, and looks as if it might help keep other consumer prices down. But experience tells me that at the retail end, the prices will not go down, and users of deisel equipment will not make any further effort to cut their costs by going to more energy efficient vehicles and equipment.

Dion thinks the tax money is better spent on infrastructure and spreading some of it around, and placating the direct users of deisel with incentives to go energy efficient and giving them a financial hand while they do it. Of course, the cost in there will be administrating where the money goes and vetting who gets it.

So I think maybe Harper's plan is not as happy as it looks at first glance, and I think Dion's plan will likely cost more money in the short run. OTOH, I have to wonder where Harper will find the income originally obtained from that tax to fund whatever it was already paying for.

Overall, I think Dion's plan, perhaps more expensive (or maybe not), is more responsible, and offers a better environmental outcome as well as short term alternate relief for deisel users. But it is more convoluted and difficult to explain to taxpayers (and deisel users).

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

Bee, a reasonable assessment. Thanks for that.

I am a bit worried about the potential impact on federal $.

The Martin-generated surplus seems to be rapidly evaporating and I suspect will impact government spending prioritis somewhere? (possibly in some areas that could impact what we define as being Canadian).


Do you (or does anyone reading this) know what the NDP or Greens propose on this topic, if anything directly.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:15 PM

I don't. I don't think the NDP has addressed the issue yet, and I haven't looked at the Greens at all.

Fact is, I wanna vote for the old NDP, which doesn't exist anymore. I'll be watching Layton to see what he does have to say, and it is a fact that I do like a lot of the candidates that run for the NDP - they are usually earnest and well meaning people, and just as informed about the workings of government as any other party.

Dion hasn't said anything yet that I could really object to, and he also seems like a well-meaning and intelligent person. He has the unfortunate anchor of a lot of old cynical Liberal, rum-bottle-for-a-vote incumbents, which doesn't bother me as much as it should, probably.

Harper hasn't been near as bad as I expected, but despite his claims, he has not been a good budgeter, or those big surpluses wouldn't be falling so fast, even given the global economy. He's proved himself to be secretive, unable to keep even his promise of when to have an election, and some of his party's prominent members are ideologically as far from me as it's possible and still be in a free country.

When some of your party's influential members think men walked with dinosaurs, and too many of them do, you can laugh and think it's funny, but you have to be aware of the unspoken rightwing religious ideology that goes with that. That includes women being subject to their husbands, some borderline Biblical racism, and a strong anti-social safety net message - you're only poor if you aren't right with God, and since we're Christians, we'll certainly help ya - as long as you're willing to go beg for it at the church.

Harper, with a minority government and a more practical take on governing, spent a lot of effort muzzling that segment of the party in the first months after coming to power. Harper with a majority might let them off-leash, with possibly dire consequences to some of the rights and privileges Canadians, which would impact most seriously on the poor, women, and the ill.

I also think, with no more good reason than my gut, that health care in this country is being undermined by the Harper government on purpose, in order to try to offset health care costs by introducing a two tier system, possibly including means testing. I don't trust Harper with the future of my Canadian neices and nephews. My neices and nephews in the US have suffered and are suffering, and I am not exaggerating, from similar political thinking in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:44 PM

Now this really concerns me ....

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iWsEfTou26Y5vvIcWTQOb_Lyppgg


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM

Just remember, it'll all be over by Oct 14th. What a blessing.

The American election farce will still be going long after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:26 PM

So true L.H.

I have a grand fear they will delay the U.S. carny elections for a year ... just to ensure high rating$ for the U.S. news networks.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:27 PM

Not sure if this relates to anything with the election.
But, maybe we need more of our USA style election issues to discuss.


http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/09/09/the-more-you-know-harper-would-rather-be-a-fruit-than-a-veget

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:28 PM

Sorry, it does not seem to link

Here it is:

The more you know: Harper would rather be a fruit than a vegetable
Posted: September 09, 2008, 12:20 PM by Chris Boutet
Canadian Election, Conservatives

Would anyone other than Stephen Harper himself describe himself as "sweet and colourful"? We doubt it, but it makes for great election copy during the afternoon slowdown. From Canwest's Andrew Mayeda:

WINNIPEG — For the record, Stephen Harper would rather be a fruit than a vegetable.

At the end of a news conference Tuesday at the warehouse of a Winnipeg vegetable supplier, the Conservative leader faced his oddest question yet on the campaign tour.

"If you were a vegetable, what type of vegetable would you be and why?" asked a local reporter for CITY-TV, inciting laughter from the crowd of party supporters and journalists.

Harper, standing in front of boxes of potatoes, carrots, cabbages and cauliflower, initially seemed stumped.

He paused and looked at the boxes of vegetables stacked behind him. For a moment, it appeared that he might fumble the response.

"I, um . . . You know, I really don't know how to answer that one," Harper said, scratching his head. "I've never been asked that question before and I have a feeling that I can't win by answering that question."

But then the prime minister offered this response.

"Let me say this, I would choose, if I had to instead, to be a fruit: just what I am, sweet and colourful."

The Conservatives have sought to soften Harper's image at the outset of the campaign, launching a series of ads portraying him as an average guy and family man.

In past public appearances, the prime minister has sometimes appeared stiff and robotic, but senior officials say that, privately, Harper has a sharp, dry sense of humour.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: bobad
Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

The shit is starting to fly in the election campaign: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080909.welxnpuffin0909/BNStory/politics/home?cid=al_gam_mostview

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

Is putting lipstick on a pig kind of kissing a cod in Newfoundland?
Thank god for the codpiece.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:00 PM

Good Lord, Ed, they don't make you kiss a codpiece!

Cod don't wear 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM

Well this puffin crapping ad is about as low a blow that I have seen in Canadian campaigns. The tories have withdrawn it and said "sorry" but I think it's crap! (pun intended)
Are ones who put out this "crap" ones we want running the country? Methinks not!!!

Harpers Puffin

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:54 PM

Juvenile, yes, but hardly the lowest attack ads have gotten. Remember the ad that made fun of Jean Chretien's partial faicial paralysis?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 05:50 PM

Sorry, Bee, I was mistaken.

No kissing the codpiece in a federal election,

Kiss only the default location:)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:14 PM

No matter what your political preference, nor view on her, Eliz. May will improve the interest in the Canada election debate.

I suspect more folks will watch it, just because she is there.

Good for her.

Shame on those who opposed hher participation(including Layton) , regardless of the personal party of choice.


http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAN1039064420080910

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Beer
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM

Ed T
Since the moratorium on the Cod you now have to kiss the Puffin's arse.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:39 AM

Bee, I stand corrected! That indeed was lower on my scale as well! However, the common denominator seems to be the party that gave birth to both.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 10:18 AM

Is Harper dying his hair or is it just creative lighting? I just saw him giving an interview on CBC and his hair appears to be a solid medium brown. Last night I saw one of his campaign ads, and I swear his hair was solid silver.

Not that it matters, I think; just made me do a doubletake.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:23 AM

The Greens and Elizabeth are now in the debates.

I just spent a little time at the Green Party's official site, including an admittedly superficial look at Green policy on selected issues. Unfortunately, a lot of the nitty-gritty on implementation is in pdf form, and that is a problem for me, as I've yet to get Adobe Reader's latest update to work consistently without freezing up the browser.

So what I'm seeing may be addressed in detail where I can't get at it.

I'm seeing figures on energy use by individual families that seem to be pulled out of a hat. I'm seeing a Green Shift carbon use taxation model that includes the potential for an alarming amount of administrative squirming around, because they aren't planning on exempting (say, seniors and low income families) but instead going the rebate route, which means people at risk end up paying for home heating fuel or rural transportation upfront, at the point where they can least afford increased costs, and have to be savvy enough to fill out a bunch of forms or figure out how to jig their income tax report and hope they can find all their receipts.

I'm seeing a vague health care policy with an emphasis on 'living healthy', not bad in itself, and a laudable intent to increase the use of nurse practitioners, but nothing to indicate substantive efforts to decrease waiting times for joint replacement and various surguries. Maybe that's in the damn pdf.

I'm seeing a careful nod to universal child care, without addressing the employment issues childcare workers have been bemoaning for over three decades.

I'm seeing a limp support for unions and indeed labour in general.

I'm seeing entrenchment on issues that will get their asses ejected from the Atlantic provinces, such as a continued refusal to understand the seal hunt and why it is such a stubborn issue here.

I'd much appreciate if someone interested enough and able to look at pdfs can correct me or further inform me regarding the above.


http://www.greenparty.ca/

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 11:53 AM

Seemed that this got little media/public attention:
Four former prime ministers call for climate change action

http://www.nupge.ca/news_2008/n11se08b.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 12:17 PM

Most Canadians are urgently behind rational climate change action. What we are not for is 'solutions' that include elderly and at-risk Canadians freezing or starving in winter because they can't pay for fuel.

My elderly widowed neighbour, on a small fixed income, will be paying more than $3000. for heating oil this year. I grocery shop with her every week, and I have noticed, to my great dismay, that since she negotiated this budgeted price with the oil company, she has severely reduced the amount of groceries she buys. I'll be keeping a close eye on her this winter, and plan on having her in for substantial lunches and teas as often as I can convince this proud woman to come over.

I suggest anyone who can should choose to keep an eye on an elderly friend or neighbour this winter, to make sure they don't risk their health trying to reduce their heating and power bills.

Also, I don't know about other provinces, but Nova Scotia has several 'opt in' programs like the property tax rebate for seniors. I've found several times that some seniors are not aware of these programs. If you know of such, mention them to seniors you know, and if it seems needful, offer to help them get forms or fill out forms. This is also an area where local politicians, municipal councillors, MLAs and MPs can be useful, as they usually know, or their office staff does, what programs can be accessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 02:29 PM

News quote
... "Harper repeated his pledge that six years of Canadian participation in Afghanistan is enough and that Canada's combat mission in the war-torn country would end in 2011."

Now, does anyone else see anything just a tad totally fucked up with such an assinine, inane... you get the pic... ???!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 03:15 PM

Polls say Canadians are leaning more against the war involvement in Afghanistan. The Liberals shot themselves in the foot on this issue when they went along with the Conservatives, as, per the article and supporting numbers, Conservative voters are more likely to approve than Liberal voters. This means the Liberals are more likely to lose traditional supporters over Afghanistan than are the Conservatives, unless the Liberals decide on a radical about-face.

As an aside, it seems currently rather difficult to find out what the Liberals' current thinking is re Afghanistan.

And Michael Ignatieff's website is remarkable in that it almost ignores the fact that he spent most of his working life in the US, and makes no mention at all of his former strong support for war.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/09/05/poll-afghan.html

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 04:52 PM

The mission? What fucking mission? And, why will the mission end in 2011? Is that when the mission is scheduled to end? Have the Talibanistas inked their calandars to follow Stevie One into his Church of the Latter Day Fuck Ups and repent for their sins and rejoice in the Joy that is Stevie?

I think I gotta take another break from posting... sounds right postal to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 05:12 PM

I dunno about not posting, gnu, but I strongly advise not watching CBC or CTV. I had 'er on for a couple hours this afternoon, loud enough to hear out the window while I stacked firewood, and if anyone had driven into the yard they'd have seen a wild-haired old woman in bark-littered clothes and work gloves muttering savageries at, to all appearnaces, a bunch of Juncos, a Bluejay and the cat. Fortunately it isn't JW season - the local ones are kind enough they might have dialed 911 on me and I'd be in getting 'assessed' by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 05:29 PM

Give us a break eh buddy?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM

Thanks, gnu. That first one, in spite of its name (Neil Gow's lament for his Second Wife), I had a good fiddler driend play at my wedding. It is so beautiful.

Anyone know if it's true the 'second wife' referred to was actually a favourite fiddle that was broken?

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Peace
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:10 PM

IMO, a carbon tax is simply a way to allow rich companies to keep doing what they're doing. Hell, I recall when an Ontario company that made literally scores of millions per year was fined at a rate of $50,000/month for some sort of polluting they were doing (waterways if I recall correctly). Anyway, they paid the fines that amounted to $600,000/year. No problem. That didn't do shit about stopping the polluting, however.

It's like my buddy who found it cheaper to pay parking tickets than find and pay for a parking lot. There was only a few dollars difference, and the six block walk wasted more of his time than he cared to have wasted. These types of taxes are, imo, BS.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM

Reasons why the Conservatives seem to be making significant gains in Quebec?

I understand that the Liberals are unpopular, and the Bloc seems to have outlived its perceived need. I also understand that the Conservatives have put "distintct society-like" measures through parliament.

But, why have the NDP not made gains?

My observation is Quebecers seem to look to government to intervene in many areas to protect citizen's interests. Unions also seem strong in Quebec. The citizens also seem to be mostly anti-Afganistan, pro environment. and cool on the monarchy.

The connservatives seem to register low marks on all the issues above.

But, the NDP seem strong on those issues. Yet, it cannot seem to connect with voters in Quebec.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 06:49 PM

Actually, the NDP seem to think they have a good chance in twelve ridings in Quebec.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Sep 08 - 07:55 PM

NDP hopes in Quebec From 1988 (sounds somewhat like the same line from election 08):http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/parties_leaders/clips/10677/

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Bee
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:32 AM

True, Ed, but I have it from a reasonable source that many people in Quebec are a little bored with the Bloc, and not best pleased with the Devil's bargain they've struck with Harper. A lot can happen in a few weeks, though, and the NDP has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory on many occasions.

Subject: RE: BS: Canadian Federal Election
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:49 AM

Agree that Quebec is likely the most unpredictable, even to the (so called) experts.