homage to Rise Up Singing

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 09:43 PM

Whenever RUS is mentioned
half or more of the people
Rise Up Screaming!
And this forum is no exception.

So they vote with their feet,
or take the advice of my wise musician friend
and start their own session/song circle/jam.

So less screaming, and more singing/playing/jamming,
And more sessions/song circles/jams!

Cheers, S. in Seattle
maybe that's Screaming in Seattle

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 09:36 PM

One of the very good things about the way Seattle Song Circle used to work was that it encouraged people to learn the songs before they came to the meetings, so that when their turn came up, they would have something to contribute—preferably a song that the rest of the crew had never heard, if at all possible. The result was that a lot of really good songs began to emerge.

I addition to that, and of no small importance, was that a lot of people took their first fliers at singing solo in front of that group. Generally too shy in most circumstances, but since this was a warm plunge, many gave it a shot. Once they got a taste, they beavered away at learning songs and developed into pretty good solo singers.

There would be an army of small battery-operated cassette recorders whirring softly away. One of these belong to Sally Ashford. One evening she showed up with a stack of song books that she had put together, made up of songs she'd recorded on those Sunday evenings. She had copied down the words to several dozen songs, possibly as many as a hundred or more—and had written out the tunes (standard notation on manuscript paper—the dreaded dots)! She ran the original song sheets, with the tune at the top and the words typed below, through a copy machine, then put them into inexpensive three-ring binders, and sold them to anyone who wanted them (almost everybody) for a couple of bucks, essentially what it had cost her—not counting the many hours of painstaking listening and copying she must have put in on the project. A labor of love on Sally's part and much appreciated by the whole group.

But as was intended, we learned the songs we wanted out of the book, and then left it at home, as Sally had intended.

Thaïs. I had heard Walt Robertson sing it a number of times in the early 1950s. Then, in 1955 or so, I spotted The New Song Fest in a book store, riffled through it for about three seconds, then ran squealing and giggling up to the cash register. There were lots of "AHAs!" in that book, songs I had heard Walt or others sing, but didn't know what records or song books I could find them in. One of them was Thaïs. It turned out that that's where Walt had learned it. I learned it also, along with a whole batch of other songs I'd been looking for.

When Barbara and I got season tickets to Seattle Opera, the first opera I saw was Jules Massenet's Thaïs. Yup. The song takes a two and a half hour opera and boils it down to about three minutes!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 09:11 PM

".... We get non-singers to sing, and we have a good time. How can you condemn that?"

ah, Joe...no one condemns that- some of us just think, as you see repeated several times above, that most people who use it tend to come to depend on it, and never get beyond it.

So what? you might ask....well, those folks see a mention in our newsletter for the FSGW Open Sing...which you, Joe, have attended a few times. Last month we had 6! (that's six) people wielding copies, and being bewildered when someone sang a song that 1) was not IN the book, or 2) was in the book, but had different words than those in the book. It got a wee bit awkward.

   I have my 'rule' that IF I can close my eyes and not tell if someone has a cheat-sheet or a book, I'll let it go...(yeah, I have used one at times when I had to pull up a song I had not done recently). Well....with these folks...(all nice folks)...it was obvious they were reading from the book, and there were pauses at line breaks or page turnings....and phrasing was ummmm...vague.

Now, no one wants to 'put down' people who care and are trying, but it-just-don't-work when part of the groups 'thinks' one way and part the other. We get thru it, but after 20+ years of welcoming ANYONE, we find the better singers gradually finding excuses to not attend much.

The BOOK is, simply, a crutch...and most of us need a crutch sometimes in life, but we usually like to be able to walk with the group. To extend the metaphor, if one is TRULY handicapped and can't run with the others, there are handicapped venues...like wheelchair races. I just echo what the Seattle folks have said, and IF the FSGW sing deteriorates into a Blue Book sing, I know that some of us will find other ways.

(Lordy, you wouldn't believe what our sing was like from 1975, when I first attended one to about 15-20 years ago! Pure Heaven! Then, as the % of top-notch folks went down, it became harder to keep up standards. Seldom 'bad', and often quite good....but changing slowly...for various reasons.   Now I pick & choose according to the topic and where it is to be held.

(To be clear...I HAVE a copy of RUS. I also have 100 others!)

I don't really know what to do, but I do know what NOT to do.

I am sorry if I upset anyone....but.....

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:52 PM

I learned to sing in church, with hymnals; and at Scout camp, without any printed lyrics. Through the years, I've come to know a lot of songs so well that I hardly glance at the hymnal, but I'm still glad I have it in hand. And yeah, I know about three hundred camp songs by heart; and I hate the thought of passing out song sheets at a campfire and have often fought parents who want them.

Still, most often I feel more comfortable if I have something to lean on if my memory fails; and I find a hymnal works best for group singing of most songs. I was raised singing with hymnals, and I guess I feel a bit offended by people say I can't sing as well as they do, simply because I usually sing from a book.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Haruo
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:28 PM

It's probably a sign of my mental illness or something, but I enjoy the Seattle Song Circle. In the course of an evening there's usually some total tripe, usually some good singing, usually something new I haven't heard before and am glad I heard, usually some oldies but goodies I enjoy singing along with, etc etc. Some participants are politically correctly inclined and some are iconoclasts, I was able to sing the Zulu King there (my version is, I think, similar to and probably ultimately based upon the one in 1954 Song Fest) and I also once sang Thaïs. People may sing in Hawaiian or Bulgarian or (yes, this would be yours truly) Esperanto, or may pass and hardly sing at all. I am oblivious to any rules about being or not being "in the Book". It meets every Sunday night, and I would be there every week if I didn't have a wife, Sunday evening church duties, and a bus dependency. I am sorry Stew and Don and Bob have given up on it, because I enjoy hearing them sing. Usually there are plenty of copies of RUS so if somebody wants to sing from the book others can join in, but several people bring their own private binders to contribute from, or even (horrors) sing from memory.

Haruo

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:27 PM

My objections to using "Rise Up Singing", or any other book or cheat sheet, during group singing is that it stifles the spontaneity and open exchange of songs and song varients. I well remember times when someone might sing: "Froggie Went a Courting", only to have five more varients of the same song tossed in next. When you have yer head buried in a book, you can't make eye conctact with anyone ... other than the person who published the book. I've learned most of my songs, and have been led into fabulous song searches, because of the free exchange of open singing. If you stick to "Rise Up Singing", the most you'll achieve is to learn every song in that book. YIPPEE! What fun. I'd rather exchange a mix of songs with folks who value these songs, learn them, search out different versions, a learn their histories. Just my opinion. Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:04 PM

Among the nicknames I have heard for RUS are Fall over laughing, Sit down screaming and other similar variations.

At the chantey sing in NYC, while we do not encourage using RUS, we do not actively discourage it either. Many of our participants have used it as a means to break themselves into singing in public and we would rather have the words right than wait through long pauses until someone supplies the next line.

I have spoken with Peter Blood about some of the errors in the book, both in terms of misspelled words and incorrect quotations. While he seems to encourage the critique, he has not made the changes.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 07:41 PM

Joe, what's the Blue Book? Maybe I missed something, but I scrolled up the thread to see if either RUS or an edition of Song Fest hsad been identified as such, but failed to find any such reference.

Also, since my post earlier today, I Googled "Sit Down Singing" and came up empty. The only results were articles about the Catholic Mass (i.e., sitting and standing and kneeling while singing). Too bad; I was looking forward to seeing a parody of "Rise Up..."

Not my day for coming up with results. :^(

Something else I'd like to know more about is the Intercollegiate Outing Club Association. Oh, for the simpler days of a more innocent era ~ when I first read the word "outing," first thing that occurred to me was the process of revealing one another's secret sexual preclivities. But I know that's incorrect; those folks were just about going out in the woods to sleep in tents and sing around campfires ~ and doing it right, too (apparently).

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 03:37 PM

Like Bob (Deckman), I've pretty much
given up on the Seattle Song Circle.

A wise musician in Seattle told me several years ago,
"If you don't like the session you're in, start your own."

It's harder to do than say,
but I took his advice and started my own
'house jam' monthly music session.
About a dozen (more or less) musicians,
we bring a variety of instruments,
play tunes (sometimes solo, sometimes together),
sing songs, and everything in between,
back up songs, if appropriate, on instruments,
with instrumental breaks, often improvised,
sing in marvelous multi-part harmonies,
and rarely use written words or music sheets.
It's great fun!

So if you don't like your song circle,
start your own.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 03:15 PM

For the last 15 years, I've been in song circles that use the Blue Book. The Sacramento Song Circle has continued once a month for 20 years, and the others have come and gone. We never have fewer than 25 singers in the Sacramento gathering, and often have as many as 50. We use the Blue Book most of the time, but we always have a few people who introduce new songs. Most of our instrumentalists aren't very good, but we usually have at least one good guitarist every month.

When I started attending the Sacramento song circle, it was dominated by a strong singer and decent guitarist named Bob Fitch, one of the founding members. Many of the participants were women who had dated Bob. Bob was instrumental in founding several song circles in Northern California, and one in Reno (Nevada) that still has 50 or more people attending every month.

Bob Fitch left Sacramento about ten years ago, and I suppose I replaced Bob as the Alpha Male in the group. I don't play an instrument, but I have a strong voice and legend has it that I know all the songs in the Blue Book. If I'm not there, the singing gets pretty weak, so I feel an obligation to attend every song circle. I suppose it often happens that I'm the only person not looking in the book - I keep mine on the floor in front of me to glance at if I need a memory-jogger. Still, most of the time, our singing is pretty good and we usually have a wonderful time. One way or another, we make it work. We get non-singers to sing, and we have a good time. Hoiw can you condemn that?

About a year ago, a transplant form the San Francisco Bay Area, Sharon Carl, started a song circle in Auburn, California, ten miles from my home. She modeled it on the In Harmony's Way group in San Francisco. Sharon supposedly requires participants to read and sign her rules; but I don't know anyone who actually signed them, and we take some delight in defying them. Still, we generally follow the principles set by the rules, especially this one:

Respect the group by connecting with them in song. Songbooks or songsheets tend to break group connection and we kind of hope you won't bring them. We want to see you while you sing, not the cover of your Rise Up Singing. If you can't remember all the words, lead the song anyway. Chances are someone will know the words and can prompt you. And if nobody knows the words, make some up on the spot. Nobody will notice, because, remember, they don't know the words. And if they do notice that you're faking it, they'll admire you for your audacity. Or maybe they'll think you're being silly. Whatever.

This song circle attracts a better quality of musicians, and our music has been pretty darn good. We're not ready to make a recording like the terrific CD from the original In Harmony's Way group, but we're pretty good.

So, I'm glad I'm in a variety of singing groups - a Catholic parish choir (which is very good), the blue-book Sacramento Song Circle (which is a very friendly group that has a lot of fun), and the Auburn In Harmony's Way group.

But back to the Blue Book. Don't blame a poor song circle on the book. It takes hard work to make any singing session work, especially if you want to be open to people who don't sing all that well.

-Joe-

P.S. Later editions of Rise Up Singing include the original lyrics of many of the songs that were sanitized in the earlier editions. Most of the songs in the book have always the original lyrics, as written by the songwriter. There are very few really "traditional" songs in the book, but it's a good place to find the correct lyrics for songs like "Today" and "Sounds of Silence" and "Four Strong Winds." These are songs that lots of people know and like to sing. Not particularly innovative, I suppose - but it can be fun, if you do it right.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 02:46 PM

Yes Don,
some great songs in the old "Song Fest"
and some great kid's songs too,
not the sanitized, politically correct,
boring ones you find in "Rise Up Screaming,"
but then they'd probably get in deep trouble
if they sang those at school or in church
or at other public places.

Where else would you find the words to
Newman Levy's poem 'Thais' put to music -
"One time in Alexandria
In wicked Alexandria,
Where nights were wild with revelry,
and life was but a game ..."
Oh yes, it's in the DT, and on my web site.

Or "Let Her Sleep Under The Bar"
Or "Abdullah Bulbul Amir"
Or "The Vassar Hygiene Song"
Or "Blest be the tie that binds, My collar to my shirt..."
Or...

Those are the songs we used to sing
around the campfire, or in the dorms.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 02:17 PM

Hey, hey hey!!

Sing Out Index for various editions! Scroll down.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM

Rise Up Singing (in some circles known as "Rise Up Sinking") is a good collection and a fairly good source for words, but I, too, get put off when I run into those little editing jobs that attempt to make a song more Politically Correct.

I was one of the "charter members" of the Seattle Song Circle, which was really great for the first few years. Meetings were held every Sunday evening at first, and drew from 40 to 70 people! That's right, as many as 70 some evenings, including John Dwyer, Stan James, Mary Wilson, Mary Garvey, Merritt Herring, John and Sally Ashford, and Bob Nelson, who rendered his opinion just above.

We didn't all sing together, either. When you're turn came up, you could sing a solo, lead the group in a song, request a song from someone else, or just pass. In a few months, without planning to, we developed into an informal singing group that started getting invited to provide authentic music for such events as the Moss Bay Sail and Chantey Festival. Great fun!!

But then some people, newcomers to Song Circle, started coming laden with song books. When their turn came up, they'd announce that "I just started to learn this song this afternoon and I don't know the words yet and I'm not sure of the tune, but—" and you'd have to sit there wincing as the person fuddled and groped their way through the song. And then Rise Up Singing showed up, and the whole thing turned into a hymn-sing. The original people started dropping out. I don't know what it's like now. I haven't been to Song Circle for a couple of decades.

I think we boo-booed back then. We abandoned the field and left it to the Philistines. When the books started showing up, a bunch of us should have stood up and barked!!

I agree. Rise Up Singing is a fairly good source for song words (but caveat emptor;   the words have been diddled with). The major problem with it is that some people—groups now inhabiting various song circles—take it as Holy Writ.

The New Song Fest compiled by Dick and Beth Best is THE one, if you can find a copy. I've totally worn out one copy and I'm on my second, which, despite careful handling, is getting kinda ratty looking.

With both books—with any book—use it to learn songs. Then leave them at home!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 02:02 PM

I use Rise up singing and other songbooks as well, because I'm rubbish to remebmer song lyrcs, but I sometimes look at the words and then I'll remember the words to songs, so I use these things as a kind of an aid.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:42 PM

"I.O.C.A. ??"

Intercollegiate Outing Club Association
"Song Fest" was a collection of songs sung by members of the I.O.C.A., founded in 1932 and by 1954 organized at about 120 colleges and universities in Canada and the U.S. (mostly on the east coast).

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Deckman
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:29 PM

As far as I'm concerned, this book has RUINED "The Seattle Song Circle." As others have said, it's a good resource, but should be left at home when going to any singing event. I have stopped going to song circle because this book now dominates the evening, and I know many other singers who feel the same way. In fact, I wrote a song about this scourge:

"This is the song on page 17,
Page 17, page 17,
This is the song on page 17,
And my book's better than yours!"

"This is the song on page 18" ... on and on.

CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: open mike
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:27 PM

i used to have a songbook i think it was the "precursor" of R.U.S.
it was spiral bound with a black and white illustration on the cover.

the songs, authors were not attributed -- i think they feared copyright
problems...

any one know of this song book?

the best use i have for R.U.S. is for non-musicians
to use to get ideas for songs to request...from a
singer and picker circle...a good way to include them.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:25 PM

I.O.C.A. ??

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:02 PM

"I suppose it has its uses, but I much prefer my circa 1958 edition of "The New Song Fest," beat-up as it is."

From the preface of the old "Song Fest":
"Because the fires of enthusiasm kindled at a rousing songfest, roaring most heartily… can't be artificially preserved for I.O.C.A. posterity, this song book is inevitably a mere woodpile. The motley crew who haphazardly, and with occasional splurge of energy, have thrown the pile together, haven't bothered about a few knots and flaws in the grain. They've gone out of their way to select good rough logs, which haven't been cut up, dried, and neatly sorted like those you find on any standard woodpile. They've tossed the big timbers in next to the small ones, but have tried to stack them up for easy reference. You'll find some of them won't burn very easily unless you corral an expert hand to touch them off, but plenty of room has been left on the pile for wood of you own choosing. In brief, the woodpilers herewith toss you the torch – and the tip that, not withstanding a random shot of smoke-in-the-eyes, which you may get in the early stages, no fire will burn more brightly than the one you concoct yourself." The following P.S. was added: "A reward of one left-hand dungaree patch, guaranteed not to rip, run, rust, tear, split, melt, break, etc. is hereby offered for the pelt of the first bohunk caught surreptiously using this book at a songfest."

Rise Up Singing - It is really a fine collection of songs to sing in groups, but not to be used in group singing.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 12:49 PM

from the article: "According to Blood and Patterson, a group called Sit Down Singing went to the trouble to produce its own fake songbook—the perfect tribute from one ex-hippie to another."

Hmm, I'll have to look that up!

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 11:02 AM

In a number of cases the lyrics have been arbitrarily changed to make them politically correct.

In a GREAT number of cases the chords that are given make no sense.

People bring the book to song swaps and sing into it, rather than at the other participants.

People get upset if you start a song that "isn't in the book."

I suppose it has its uses, but I much prefer my circa 1958 edition of "The New Song Fest," beat-up as it is.

Peter.

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 10:02 AM

The problem with RUS is not the book but more in the way it came to be used. The bible has the same problem. Its used by Episcopalians and Fundamentalists alike but in one case it is THE ONE AND ONLY LAW and the other more of a suggestion.{:<)))

Getting folks singing is good.......No room for interpretation is bad.

Spaw

Subject: RE: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:19 AM

Whatever its flaws, it serves a vital purpose and has been a marvelous tool to get people singing! Thanks for the link, Peter!

Allison

Subject: homage to Rise Up Singing
From: Peter T.
Date: 26 Dec 08 - 07:40 AM

There's a nice little homage to Rise Up Singing today at:

http://www.slate.com/id/2207306/pagenum/all/#p2

(I know, some people hate it, but I'm with the author of this piece. One of the truly useful books published.)

yours,

Peter T.